The Walking Dead: Arrow on the Doorpost

Posted on March 11, 2013

Ah, well. It was probably too good to be true.

Last week’s well-regarded episode, which many have called the best Walking Dead episode since the pilot, TWD+S3E13+4was not the signal that the show had found a new energy and heart. Instead it was followed up by yet another talky, plotless hour that illustrates everything wrong with how the show tells its stories. Two armed men who want each other dead enter a room together, sit down, talk about how much they want the other one dead and then … leave. That’s it. That’s the entire story. Oh, and it’s agreed by everyone that Andrea really sucks. Also: Glen and Maggie have hot sex that almost made us wish a horde would stumble on them both and eat them.

Yes. We’re cranky.

But look, an entire episode of chest-thumping and dick-measuring with ABSOLUTELY NO PAYOFF is a terrible idea for an episode. Yes, Rick and the Governor should meet face to face and that should be an interesting meeting, as each man maintains their moral rightness and their willingness to kill the other man to protect their own. That sounds great on paper. What we got onscreen was interminably long and went TWD+S3E13+10nowhere. People who make the following complaint tend to get cast as mindless action junkies, but honestly: who really thinks it’s a good idea to do a zombie apocalypse story that’s about 80% standing around and talking? Ugh. We can’t.

Oh, wait; yes we can because we just remembered something.

Andrea: What did he to Maggie?


That is the WORST kind of writing. It was the kind of thing Lost writers got rightly vilified for doing on a regular basis. If they’re going to have the characters stand around and talk all the time – indeed, if they’re going to base entire episodes on that idea – then have the characters say what they mean to each other. It’s beyond irritating that no one seems to come right out and say to Andrea what kind of man the Governor is. Granted, she’s an idiot if she still hasn’t worked that out on her own, but then again if this season was a movie, it would be titled Walking Dead III: Andrea’s an Idiot.

We’re not mindless action junkies. We’re fine if the show goes weeks without any action scenes or zombie attacks. There’s more than enough going on in this world that an interesting story can be told without gore every 5 minutes. But they’re not really telling all that interesting a story. Does anyone in the audience stand with Rick and understand why the group is willing to die for a dirty, hot, zombie-infested prison? Maybe TWD+S3E13+7there’s a good reason why they’re not just pulling up stakes and leaving, but we have yet to hear one.

What made last week’s episode so great (besides the acting and the character work) was the world-building atmosphere of it. We see so little (practically nothing) of the world outside of Rick’s group and part of The Governor’s. One of the more intriguing characters this whole season was that guy sleeping in a cabin who wound up getting killed because he wouldn’t shut up. We found ourselves wondering how he got to that point and wondered how many other people are out there and how they’re dealing with things. We realize budgetary constraints aren’t going to have them traveling all over the country, but when we found out last week they’re still within a day’s drive from Rick’s hometown, we realized just how small this world they’re living in really is. Open it up a little more, writers. And settle this damn thing with the Governor already. The buildup was sloppy and now we don’t even care that much how it plays out. The writers clearly think they’re leading up to something epic – and who knows? Maybe they are – but it sure hasn’t felt that way.



[Photo Credit: Photo Credit: Gene Page/AMC]

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  • I agree. I was so annoyed by the episode…within the first 10 minutes. Because I realized that it was going to be another “11” episode. One talking head jabbering to another talking head. And why show us the gun taped to the table? Rick’s character has been far more savvy in the past about threats. He had to know to check the table right? Ugh. And then the gun was never re-addressed. Not even when he left! I’m assuming it was left taped to the table? 

    And the whole scene at the end with Herschel and Rick talking…”I was hoping you’d talk me out of it.” Blah. So ridiculous. All of it. I’m not sure I’ll be in for a season 4 of some good shit doesn’t happen soon. The momentum has timed out my interest.

    • Yeah, Chekhov would not approve of that unfired gun. 

      • Sobaika

        Someone alert the writers. Gabriella has summed up in one excellent comment why they suck.

      • Topaz

        Oh my God, EXACTLY. They followed up one of their best episodes with probably their worst. This episode was offensively bad. I had to keep pausing it and going and doing other things, as well as repeatedly rewinding sections where my mind had wandered because I was SO FRICKING BORED. I needn’t have bothered though because I didn’t miss anything important. If these characters did a bit more than glower I might be fine with just talking talking. But Frost/Nixon this ain’t.

      • tereliz

        Ugh, thank you for pointing that out. I kept shaking my head so much watching this episode I think I gave myself whiplash. 

    • Sobaika

      One day an exhausted group of survivors is going to stumble into that empty shed and be real thankful for that fully loaded gun mysteriously left for them, as if a gift from god.

  • Mismarker

    My DVR cut out 20 minutes from the middle.  The only thing I have to say is Fink’s “Warm Shadow” is my new favorite song.  

  • Ok, I will defend their wanting to stay in the prison. After a winter of being on the run, they probably all just want someplace they can fortify that provides protection from the elements and lets them keep and accumulate supplies in a relatively secure place. They have an infant now and someone on crutches. It would be incredibly hard to be on the road under those circumstances. We’ve seen evidence all season of people being ambushed in vehicles and alongside roads. They need a home base. Also, as they said before they were attacked by the Governor, they had huge fenced in yards they could use for gardens. Having a relatively secure source of food should be one of their first priorities.
    That all being said. I agree with the post. Stop talking and just get the standoff with the Governor over with.

    • DeebaCee

      Agreed with everything you just wrote. The entire episode really could have taken place in the first 20 min.

    • How many people have died at that prison since Rick and Co. got there? Including the convicts (for which Rick was at least partially responsible), something like six people have died. Theoretically, it would have made a great place to stay, but the reality revealed the opposite, practically from the moment they arrived there. It’s simply not a great place to make a stand over.

      • If Rick is considered responsible for the convict’s death, wouldn’t he also be somewhat responsible for T-dawg’s death too? The zombie attack that happened at the prison that resulted in T-dawg’s death was because Rick locked that other convict out of the prison and assumed he would be killed by zombies, instead of taking care of the matter himself. Lori died in childbirth, that could (and likely would) have happened anywhere. I would still say the prison has the potential to be a safe place, if they could get enough time to make it fully safe and get someone competent as their leader. 

        •  Yes, T-Dog is one of the five or six people who died at the prison since Rick brought his group there.

      • NoGovernmentName

         It’s the kind of place that SEEMS  like a good idea, but it isn’t. It SEEMS like a fortress, but it gives them all a false sense of security. Merle was right. They should have bailed as soon as they got wind that the Governor had it out for them.

      • Joie_de_Vivre

        Except the reason people died has largely been caused by the group’s run-ins with other humans (the convict Rick tossed outside to the mercy of the zombies who turned around and got revenge on him, and the Governor and his men) and not just due to the prison itself as it’s actually done a pretty good job keeping them safe from zombies and humans. If Rick had gone through with killing the convict, and if the group hadn’t run across Woodbury, then no one would have died (except for Herschel’s leg); so it would make sense for them to be thinking if they can just deal with the Governor then they can claim the prison and be kept safe inside it, and maybe eventually repair the gates so they can grow crops in the prison yard. Of course that’s not going to happen, but logically it makes sense for them to still want to make a stand for it.

        • No one is arguing that the prison itself killed people, but when there’s such a high death toll surrounding this one location, and when there’s a guarantee that there’s an even higher one coming, it makes no sense to stand and fight. I’m not sure how the prison did a good job of keeping them safe. T-Dog died from a zombie attack there, as did several of the prisoners, Lori died, and we could argue about whether or not she would have anyway, but giving birth on a dirty floor in a hot room surrounded by zombies trying to get in is surely not the best way to deliver a child and is practically asking for complications. Herschel lost his leg and almost died due to a zombie attack in the prison. The bearded white dude got killed in an attack on the prison. Rick had to kill some of the convicts there himself. It’s been nothing but a death and maimfest from the moment they walked in and as far as we can tell, it’s still overrun with zombies and they have virtually no food supply.

          Plus: they would either have to conquer the town of Woodbury and take it over or kill the majority of its citizens to remove it as a threat completely. That’s even assuming more than a couple of Rick’s group would survive against an assault with superior  numbers and more firepower.

          • Allyson Wells

            I agree, the prison is a death trap, and besides, I can’t stand to watch another season of them living there. But on the surface, it seems like their best option to date (compared to the farm, the quarry). I think the majority of the citizens of Woodbury are regular people, just wanting to keep their families safe, with the exception of a few (like Martinez) who are probably more violent and loyal to the Governor than most.  I wonder if they killed the Governor (and inevitably a few of his BFFs in the process), and Andrea swoops in to explain the situation and calm the masses, if Rick’s group couldn’t live happily ever after in Woodbury. Obviously this won’t happen for many reasons (one of which being that Andrea screws everything up), but that would be the ideal situation for most.

          • MilaXX

             I don’t know if I’d trust a group of people who thought zombie gladiator games was a good fun.

          • tereliz

            Yeah, but if the folks at the prison would spend less time going crazy/arguing over whether to fight the Governor, they could have had the place cleaned out properly and fortified in a short time. They already know thanks to Tyrese and Co. that the administrative wing has been compromised, and thanks to the Governor they know the weaknesses of the front of the building. Herschel can’t run and that baby is a walking dinner bell. Even if they’re driving, they have to camp sometime, and they will always be at risk. 

          •  They’re always going to be at risk no matter where they are. But the prison is a PROVEN risk (with its steady body count) and they know for a fact it’s about to become an even bigger risk because a superior army is about to lay siege to it.

            No, not one of the arguments for staying has come close to swaying our opinion on the matter. It just doesn’t make sense for them to stay and fight a war they’re very likely to lose, over a location with as many problems as the prison.

    • lexilexi

       @ Michelle Chovan – I agree with you about the prison…. it seems they could make it a wonderful base… maybe when the war w/ the governor is over, they can all move into woodbury… it’s hard to imagine they would all just take off and drive… when they have a *fairly* secure spot at the prison.

    • MilaXX

       They need a home base, but the prison is no longer secure. It was  messed up somewhat when the prisoner that Rick should have killed let the Walkers in the tombs, and then more when the Governor attacked. It’s also quite obvious that any hope of using those yards for gardens is out the window. No way is the Governor going to give them any sort of peace. Either they go down fighting since the Governor obviously is willing to let every person in town die fighting Rick’s crew, or they move on and get away from Woodbury.

      •  “They need a home base, but the prison is no longer secure.”

        Was it ever? It’s still partially over-run with zombies and Tyreese’s group found a back door entrance which has yet to be plugged up, as far as we know. We don’t claim to be military experts, but it seems tactically questionable to defend a location you haven’t yet secured yourself.

        • MilaXX

          ITA . It may have seemed a good idea, but it has clearly been proven otherwise that staying there is not a good idea.

        • BigShamu

          Well it seems to me, whether he be cray cray or not, they need to persuade Morgan to be their tactical guru because Dude secured his town, gathered a massive arsenal (by his freaking self) set tons of traps, has a waste disposal program, not to mention cartography and historical records.  I also suspect he’s got some great squab and rat recipes tucked under his Kevlar.  His “base”  was certainly less defensible than the prison yet he seems to have done more than Rick’s whole group.  Except maybe sit around a fire and sing. 

          •  Seriously. Why not just head back to Rick’s old town, set up house, and clean it out? They could have their own Woodbury.

          • Yeah thats what I was expecting. For them to re-build, or attempt to re-build, some form of civilisation, instead of constantly starting over after achieving practically nothing.

          • MilaXX

             with Morgan acting as sentinel they’d be safer than ever.

          • erinbinek

            Exactly what my husband said.  Seems logical to me.

          • They could try to replicate it, but Morgan makes that particular town as dangerous as the prison. They’d need to kill Morgan or sleep with one eye open all of the time. I don’t think Rick quite has it in him yet to kill Morgan.

    • SassieCassy

      based on the comments it looks like the audience is divided on this, exactly like ricks group. the writers have balanced it perfectly so that we get why theyre defending the prison but they will be forced to a new location by next season.

    • sockandaphone

       i think what comes down to is the location of the prison, not the prison itself. With woodberry nearby, it will never be a “safe” haven.

  • I thought that Rick was hallucinating about the Gov! I was waiting for Rick to shoot up the ghost. Oh, that would have solved so many problems.

    • Same here!  I was convinced that was some sort of dream for quite a while.  They have so. much. potential. with this material, and they consistently fail to pull through with even marginally good episodes.

  • Angela_the_Librarian

    My sentiments are about the same for this episode. I didn’t understand the point of Rick talking to the governor for so long when it was painfully apparent from the beginning that there wasn’t going to be any real negotiations (a sane person would have accepted the boundary proposal and left it at that). I also don’t understand the need to cling to the prison. True, it could theoretically be a safe place for them, but the reality has proven that it’s not. Wouldn’t it be better to move on to a place where your neighbor isn’t a megalomaniac (or perhaps the world is too far gone at this point and they would run into that type wherever they go?)
    I am cautiously optimistic about next week based on the previews. Looks like Andrea might begin redeeming herself!

  • donnaINseattle

    Well, I wasn’t as annoyed as the rest of you.

    I totally understand why Herschell wouldn’t want to talk in detail about what happened to his daughter (especially considering the only person who probably really know is Maggie and I am assuming she is probably not in a talkative mood about it).

    I liked the scene with Darryl and the other fellow. Nice to have some connections being made.

    Why don’t they keep Merle in a cell behind a lock?

    Of course, if I were in the prison and doing those food runs, I’d have snagged a map and found a couple other prisons to go check out. The prison is a good idea and lord knows there are a lot of them around.

    • Sobaika

      Agreed, the better scenes were with Daryl/butler guy and Hershel/science guy.

      Are there really that many prisons around hotlanta? Watching TWD with friends always results in ‘what would you do’ type of scenarios, and I always push for finding a college dorm. 

      • gsk241

         I agree.  The only interesting part of the “negotiations” was what was going on outside.

        • ScarlettHarlot

          I like any quality time with Darryl, but those scenes were just too pat for me. 

          Oh look, the two leaders are bonding over dead wives, the two tough guys are bonding, the two science/medical guys are bonding – I was just waiting for someone to say “we’re not so different, you and I.”

      • SassieCassy

        i thought about finding a motel. but they would run into the same problems just without the prisons defenses.

        • Oh! a boarding school will have perimeter fences and housing and will likely have a generator and lots of canned food.

      • MilaXX

         Okay  I did like the line Hershel had when Milton asked to see his stump. Something about “At least buy me a drink first before you lift my skirt.”

      • Camille Goble

        As an Atlantan, I am always on the lookout for potential zombie fortresses and have given this much thought. There are lots of dorms around here in addition to sports arenas, which I think would be a wonderful place once you got it cleared. Not to mention the airport! It’s such a vast metropolis in itself; you could cordon off your area and be quite secure with lots of space and daylight. 

        • Sobaika

          I’m a New York, but it would work for any metropolis: Some way (don’t ask me how) get yourself to the top of a large building and secure the roof/highest floor for you and group. Work your way downward floor by floor if you have the means, leave signs on the roof for any wayward helicopters. If there are survivors in neighboring buildings you can communicate through signs, rig up a pulley and bucket to exchange supplies, experiment with morse code. Clearly we spend way too much time thinking about this impossible scenario.

          The airport is an excellent idea.

          • BigShamu

            What’s your dependable source of water?

          • MilaXX

             You rig water catchers on the roof. The your only main concern is storing enough to last through the winter.

          • BigShamu

            Ever been in a NY highrise in the summer with the power out?  You’re going to need a lot of water.  I’m not sure there would be enough square roof footage to make your rain catchers efficient enough to produce and store potable for more than just a few people.  Where’s your waste going?  

          • MilaXX

            got me, I was trying to play along with the high rise scenario, but I forgot how high NYC high rises are.

          • SassieCassy

            id rather that than a georgia summer 

          • BigShamu

            I keep thinking of the recent episode of the Poopy Cruiseship and those folks sleeping on deck.  NY can get really hot and humid.  Not to mention the rotting zombie flesh you’d either have to clean out of each floor or live with the smell.

          • SassieCassy

            yeah but if your living in ny what can you do if the zombie apocalypse hits? i am in a cooler part of the country so idk about humidity but i like the idea of isolating yourself up top away from the zombies.

            what was that movie with mekei pfiffer. dawn of the dead? they barricaded in a mall. that would be fun.

          • SassieCassy

            waste would go out the window. 

          • tereliz

            The airport seems like a good idea at first, just like the prison. It’s outside the city (I personally would want to get as far away from the city as possible since higher population means higher walker population, at this point), it’s got a lot of room and a lot of supplies, maybe even weapons. 

            But it would attract every person that walked past looking for a safe place. It has too many doors and plate glass windows that aren’t security glass, and the place is far too labyrinthian to be able to secure properly. Plus, exactly like the prison, you’d have to clear it out first. 

            I’d look for a big masonry high school with lots of chain link fences.  

        • See, I’d go into the mountains. It’d afford a good view of the approaching living and dead and, if you can position yourself far enough away from the highways, you probably have fewer living people to deal with. I think a remote cabin surrounded by Morgan spikes would be best.

          • tereliz

            And unless the walkers are attracted to a noise or smell, they’re probably not going to go hiking up any mountain trails. Seems like they’d choose the path of least resistance. 

          • SassieCassy

            wasnt rick & co up in some mountains or hills the first season?

          • tereliz

            Yeah, that was where SHane and Co, pre-Rick were living, and I think they were doing just fine until Glenn brought back that sports car with the blaring alarm. Or was there an earlier attack I’m not remembering?

          • Nah. The 1st season camp was at a quarry. They may have seemed to be at an elevation, but they were at ground level and there mining craters beneath them.

    • Agree, i didn’t think it was THAT bad. Also, for the first time i watched Talking Dead and they did a vote about whether Rick should turn over Michonne and 98 percent of the people voted NO. 

      • tereliz

        At first I thought Rick had seen through the Govs ploy about Michonne. I mean, yeah, he wants her, but he’s not going to NOT kill you all if he gets her, Rick. When he brought that up to Herschel I was so disappointed. 

  • lexilexi

    I simply can’t stand the stupidity of Andrea.  I want to slap her.

  • Sobaika

    They’re not leaving because they have nowhere else to go, I think. And even if they did they wouldn’t make it. Not with an elderly one-legged farmer and newborn baby. It’s time for them to stand their ground (as clumsily as the writers have forced them to do so).

    This episode was a major letdown, I agree. But I did think the last 15 minutes were pretty compelling. Wasn’t worth the 45 minutes of blathering, but my interest for next week has piqued.

    • tereliz

      I have to agree about Herschel and lil Asskicker making it difficult to go anywhere. The prison is going to either be their salvation or their doom. 

  • A few very minor defenses of the show. I’m not sure Hershel (or Glenn for that matter) knows exactly what happened with Maggie. I think all he does know for sure is that the Gov’s a sick man. Also and this is talking dead trivia, the group is supposed to be pushed in circles by the main, big zombie horde.

    • MilaXX

       oh my other pet peeve. WTF is Maggie getting these perfect Victoria Secret black bras? Everyone always looks slightly dirty and ragged, but everytime Maggie takes off her shirt, it’s a crisp, perfect bra.

      • SassieCassy

        right up there with why do the women have no armpit hair

        • Why does every man have a 2-day stubble, except Herschel who’s gone full-on Santa Claus?

          • Sobaika

            Why is Carl still wearing that damn sheriff’s hat?

          • Why is Andrea bottle-blonde to her roots?

            This is fun.

          • Sobaika

            Speaking of, who keeps trimming Carol’s hair and why don’t they lend their services to the rest?

          • SassieCassy

            maybe it used to be tdogg, he was rocking the bald head

            why can there only be one black male in the cast list at a time?

          •  I can’t get mad at Carol’s hair. She’s the only woman with any sense on that front. Why most of the women have shoulder-length or longer hair eludes us when they have no running water, little in the way of soap, and are being relentlessly chased by a creature that exists solely to find some living thing to grab onto. Not to mention they’re in Georgia in the summertime.

          • Sobaika

            Agreed, I’m waiting for the rest of the ladies to follow suit. And Michonne’s locs are great but Danai Gurira looks amazing off set, they could’ve gone with that look too.

          • JosephLamour

            I think the graphic novel fans would riot. I know my blog would make me write something angry about natural hair, and I agree with you. LOL

          • NoGovernmentName

             Plus Carol’s hair looks like she is cutting it herself. Daryl’s looks like he put a hat on and cut around the edges, but Norman Reedus’s hair always looks like that. They should all be rocking the horrible caveman hair by now.

          • AthenaJ

            THANK YOU!! My hair isn’t that long and it gets in my face and eyes on a daily basis. If every day you face the chance of having to battle off a relentless zombie horde, why risk something that might mess up your aim/distract you for even a second?

          • MilaXX

             YES! I love my locs but in the summer they are hot! I pretty much wear them pinned up or at least in a ponytail, yet Michonne has them hanging down. Also my cat loves to play with them & she doesn’t have opposable thumbs. A walker could easily get a death grip on them.

          •  Helps keep the mosquitos and other biting insects off your neck/shoulders–I’m serious, I spent a summer working in Alaska which I suspect has three times the volume of mosquitoes of Georgia, and my hair was definitely a line of defense against the bloodsuckers.  Also, it works as sunblock.

          • Allyson Wells

            Bottle blonde and curled to perfection! I know they have some electricity there, but if they can’t keep their drinks cold, surely they don’t let Andrea use a curling iron. 

          • jeeplibby02

            Why doesn’t Carol’s hair grow?

          • CT14

            Who keeps cutting the grass!?!?

          • turtleemily

            FWIW, he does in the comic too.

          • I like to think that Darryl uses a really sharp knife as a straight razor, because the image is hot. As for the rest, I dunno.

        • cornpicker73

          And Andrea’s hair always looks like she just got back from a cut, color and style. 

          • ClevelandburbsBeth

            Yes, and half of those times she has some funky Pinterest braid or twist action going on.

          • cornpicker73

            Someone’s keeping up with the eyebrow plucking, as well. 

          • Nappysue

            And Rick still wearing a watch has been driving me crazy until last night when I realized the necessity of the watch.  Rick has a noon appointment with the Governonr in 2 days!

          • cornpicker73

            Yeah. I was like, how will they know it is noon? I guess they really have to watch the sun.

          • Inspector_Gidget

            They turn on the generator whenever they need a Lynyrd Skynyrd zombie arena battle, or whenever Andrea needs a quick blow dry.

      • BigShamu

        What are they eating at Woodbury?  I get that the Governor seems to have the good stuff but seriously, what are they feeding everyone else.  They go out on raids for guns and ammo but since they are so close to Rick’s old town and the prison, I would think the surrounding area has been picked clean.  As for Woodbury gardens, what I saw wouldn’t feed a rabbit for a week.  But they sure did take the time and forethought for Zombie Gladiators.  Ewww maybe they are growing Zombie Head Spirulina?

        • MilaXX

          back when we had no idea what type of experiments Milton was conducting I really did think they were making soylent green. Now I guess we are to assume they they also go on food raids.

    • snich11

      Where are they getting gas for their vehicles? Don’t you need electricity to pump gas?

      •  this is definitely something do-able in a zombie apocalypse – siphoning gas is an easy thing to do and the only things needed are a piece of rubber tubing and a gas can (as a matter of fact, I think pre-farm, when they were on the highway waiting for Sophia to show up, there was a scene where they were siphoning gas).

      • CT14

        Gas doesn’t last forever. It’s been, what, a year since Zday? Gas is going to start going bad, and no one is refining any new gas.

        And no one is maintaining the nuclear reactors.
        Or the oil rigs.

        At least the CDC blew itself up, but when I’m not utterly annoyed by the show, I worry about what would really happen.

  • The big thing that bothered me, and maybe they’ll do it in the next episode, is that they could easily turn this in their favor by talking to Michonne about the request and, instead of the slaughter-summit, have her go alone, earlier, on a solo mission to sneak in and kill the Governor, since she nearly did it anyway the first time they snuck in. Granted, Woodbury’s upped the security, but Michonne’s a ninja, she’d figure it out.

    Plus, it perfectly sets up Michonne for the cheesy one-liner, “You wanted me, you got me” and ORF WIF ‘IS ‘EAD. 

    That’s probably too optimistic though. 

    • snich11

      Isn’t that what Merle was trying to talk Michonne into doing, and she refused? It sounded like a good idea to me…

      • Not exactly. Merle was trying to persuade Michonne to sneak into the meeting, where Rick, Hershel, and Daryl were (along with Milton and Martinez), without telling them of this plan, and try to kill the Governor. That was a recipe for friendly fire and general clusterfuck. Michonne sneaking into Woodbury is different. Especially with the Governor trying to use her as a pawn, which I don’t think she’d take kindly to.

  • mjude

    i always seem to be one of the few who will once again say “i thought it was a good episode”  i really did think it was tense with rick & the gov. i liked the daryl & martinez scene  machonne & merle i thought was interesting.  kirkman himself said these last episodes pretty much are andrea driven. 

    • I think having Andrea driven episodes is probably not a good idea anymore.  She’s no longer even enjoyable to hate on because she’s being so stupid.

  • MilaXX

    It’s ironic to see Laurie Holden on all these talks shows trying to tell us the viewers that we don’t understanding the conflicts Andrea is going through. Really? Because nothing I saw last night made me like or even feel sorry for her. Please correct me if I’m wrong but she only learned about Lil Asskicker when she went to the prison week before last. So you mean to tell me she saw how her friends were living and she went back to Woodbury, slept with the Governor and then pill talked about the whole Shane/Rick/Lori thing?

    As much as I liked the conversation between Maggie & Glenn. WTH!? with them leaving their post to have hot monkey sex WITHOUT a condom?

    Worst of all Merle came awfully close to being the sole voice of reason.

    I get that it’s expensive to have them build a set and move more than once a season, but the writers are going to have to do better than this. This is the farm all over again. It’s painfully obvious that they to leave.

    • Sobaika

      I have naughty feelings about Steven Yeun so I am very happy with all the monkey sex.

      • MilaXX

         oh he makes my girly bits tingle too, but that scene was too dumb for me.

        • AthenaJ

          I was waiting for zombies to break in and chomp them.

          • snich11

            So was I!

    • NoGovernmentName

      I totally agree. I could not BELIEVE that Andrea went back with the Governor after learning that he did something horrible to Maggie. It’s an authorial contrivance so that she can decide to sabotage Woodbury from within, but it was written so ridiculously that it just makes Andrea look more like a moron than ever.

      • SassieCassy

        ikr!!!!! and the way hershel phrased things it was unclear. it made it seem like the gov was way more extreme with his assault (not that he wasnt extreme just that it could be taken a lot of different ways) and andrea STILL went back!

      • cnaf

        Im guessing they wrote in Andrea going back to Woodbury so they could have that plot line of help on the inside…getting Milt and Tyreese to swap sides, or have something else go wrong inside Woodbury walls that helps the main crew.

    • AthenaJ

      Re: Maggie & Glenn – Completely agree with you!! I’m terrified of getting pregnant now, so you can bet there’s no way in hell I wouldn’t use at least one kind of protection when getting my sexy time on while living in the midst of the zombie apocalypse!

    • Andrea learned that Lil’ AK had been born when she went to the prison but she knew about Lori being pregnant last season on the farm.  The only reason I can see her telling The Governor about Shane is because she was trying to talk him into the summit.  She probably used it as an example of the type of man Rick is.

      • MilaXX

         but ow does that help explain what type of man Rick is? Because there’s a question of paternity? Hello, after the killing, the zombie daughter in a closet and the dead head fish tanks how can she not know what a man like the Governor will do with that info?

  • NoGovernmentName

    Can we talk about the fact that Rick is actually planning to give up Michonne? That’s what it sounded like to me, and I was incensed. He knows that the Governor is going to kill them anyway, but he is still contemplating turning her over? That’s just insane. Whatever esprit de corps and trust they had would be destroyed by the notion that Rick would sell anyone out, no matter how useful, no matter what faith they had in him, for the sake of an obvious ruse. If he goes through with it, I am done with Rick. Well, I am pretty much already done with Rick, but I will be actively rooting for his demise.

    • MilaXX

       eh’ I think they writers think they are being clever. I think Rick wants to fake like he’s giving up Michonne, probably won’t even tell her the plan, but then magically get the best of the Governor. And yes, I think it will be that stupid and convoluted.

      • NoGovernmentName

         But… no. He didn’t tell anyone but Hershel the plan, because he wanted to psyche the group into feeling deep fear first so that they would swallow the idea of betraying Michonne. He *IS* planning on giving her up, and he wanted to bounce it off Hershel first, probably because he needed help rationalizing it. He was all, “I know it’s lie, but what if it works? I have to do it!” And wanted Hershel to talk him out of it, which he did a crappy job of. All of a sudden, Hershel minces the hell out of his words. I can’t believe anyone with half a brain wouldn’t tell Rick he was screwed either way, so he might as well die with some integrity.

        • MilaXX

          I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just thinking that the writers may think it’s clever to have Rick appear to give up Michonne and then be all, “fooled you.” As if they would be the be season ending payoff. I know that sounds stupid. However at this point I feel like the writers might not.

          • NoGovernmentName

             Fooled who? Hershel? The audience? Because we are the only two so far who know he is planning to give up Michonne. If it were a fake out, they’d all know, but why would he do a fake out on his own people? That would be absurd. It would likely cause a major schism in the group and destroy their esprit de corps. If he is going to do it, he is not going to consult with them. He is going to rely on their fear to smooth his way afterwards. I do not think he plans a fake out. He may back down on his decision to give her over, thus faking us, the audience out, but I think that would be an impulse reconsideration on  his part and not a deliberate fake out of anyone.

          • MilaXX

             I could be wrong but I think the writers think it would be a big fake out for the audience. Do I think it’s stupid? Yes. Do I think it’s sloppy writing? Yes. Then again 90% of us also guessed that Sophia was in the barn, so I think some crazy battle with a bait and switch give up of Michonne is exactly the type of thing the writers would think makes for an exciting season finale.

          • NoGovernmentName

             If so, like I said, Rick wouldn’t be fooling anyone. Rick would be having a change of heart.

          • Allyson Wells

            Rick never said he was definitely giving up Michonne. He’s only considering it, and bouncing the idea off Hershel.  He knows the Governor may kill them anyway, but he thinks there’s a possibility that he may not. Even if it’s delusional to think the Governor will keep his word (and we all know Rick is delusional), if it’s a chance to possibly keep everyone else in his group safe, including his own children and Hershel’s, you can’t blame him for at least considering the idea for a second.  I highly doubt Rick will actually move forward with any intention to hand her over to the Governor, but if he does, I could see a fake out happening, like Mila said.

          • NoGovernmentName

            I think you guys are adding another step into the story that I wasn’t. Like, first Rick considers giving up Michonne. He tells the Governor he’s going to do it, then he’s all “PSYCHE!” I guess that could happen, but that’s not where he was last night.

          • MilaXX

             As opposed to last week where he seemingly bonded with Michonne?

          • NoGovernmentName

            I know! He is all over the place. I wonder what he would say if the Governor demanded Glen, or Maggie, or Merle. He is attached to Glen, Maggie is Hershel’s daughter, and giving up Merle would lose him Daryl. Michonne is still an outsider, despite last week. I get that he would have to consider the deal. The delusional part comes in where he thinks their group could co-exist in the same sphere as Woodbury. If he thinks the sacrifice of Michonne would be anything other than a surrender of his principles, with no other result than his further moral disintegration, he’s kidding himself.

          • CozyCat

            I agree that the writers are trying to fake us out for the following reasons:
            1  Giving up Michonne when you’re pretty sure it won’t work is the worst of all Rick’s options (fighting; fleeing; etc)
            2  Rick and the group would never agree to give up any other group member, and after last week’s great episode Michonne solidified her membership in the group.

            So, next week will open with Rick and/or Hershel declaring these points and we then we move on to the actual battle.

            This would have been a reasonable episode if the summit meeting had been the first half of the hour and then they started the battle in the second. It seems to me that they wanted to stretch things out so that the season ends on some cliffhanger relating to the prison/woodbury final battle.

  • Inspector_Gidget

    So boring. And they continue to paint Rick as clueless. The second the Governor said that he was there only for their surrender, he should have been packing up and heading out. What was the point of staying after that?  Better yet, put a bullet in the mofo’s head! Comic Book Rick would have.  Ugh.

    Probably the oddest phenomenon for me is how they can have whole episodes devoted to just talking and emoting, and still have virtually no character development.  How do you even do that?  We’re no closer to figuring out who all these people are, or why they’re irrationally defending the prison to the death even though nothing but terrible things have happened there.  And Andrea… I won’t even go there.  The Internet-sters summed it up neatly already with one of those famous meme-gifs: “The New Lori.”

    • snich11

      Why didn’t Rick just kill the Governor when he had a gun pointed at him with the Gov’s hands up? And why would the Governor have allowed himself to be put in that position w/Rick? Makes no sense.

      • cnaf

        Because then you couldn’t drag out the next three episodes and hype up the impending “war”.

      • Inspector_Gidget

        Not to mention he was apparently just sitting there alone in the that barn, and then all of his peeps showed up later?  wtf?  Did he walk out there on his own?  Why would he allow them to set up and then bring in guns?

      • MilaXX

         Why bring the Hershel to a parlay? What’s he gonna do if something goes down?

      • CT14

        All through the first 10 minutes I kept saying “shoot him in the head!” Then when that got too annoying, told my hubby “I’m still thinking that. When I stop thinking ‘shoot him in the head’ I’ll tell you”

        Called the gun taped to the table, too.

        Had Rick shot the Gov, Daryl would have taken care of his counter-thug. Milton and Andrea would have frozen. Shoot Milton, and the Andrea is given the option to choose sides. She gives you the layout on Woodbury, or you shoot her as well.

        You’ve just taken out the governing body of Woodbury.

        Leaving the Gov when you know it’s war? Stupidest. Move. Yet.

        And I just don’t buy it at this point in the Zombie Apocalypse.

  • Topaz

    JUST BLOW UP THE PRISON ALREADY. They’re doing another thing they did in Lost all the time – imply that the environment around them is so dangerous they have to stay put in one place for safety in numbers, then have characters wander out of their refuges whenever they feel like it to go and argue with each other without suffering any detriment at all, while the people who stay where they are get repeatedly attacked, pillaged and terrorised. They managed to last the whole winter in two cars without anyone getting injured. How many people have wound up dead since they got to the prison.

    It really makes me furious that no one will just tell Andrea what the Governor did to Maggie. Apart from anything, they’re letting her go home with a potential rapist. Isn’t she supposed to still vaguely be their friend?

    • MilaXX

      Even if they did explicitly tell Andrea, this is the woman who stayed with a man who plans zombie gladiator events for “fun”, who is training child soldiers, who kept his zombie kid and a room full of dead heads in fish tanks, made brothers  Merle & Darryl cage fight to the death, and tried to kill Michonne who was at one point Andrea’s bff. So it takes him molesting Maggie  to suddenly be the bridge too far for her? It’s just messy writing.

      • Topaz

        Good point

      • ransue

        Yeah, and good old Andrea got mad at Michone for trying to repay the favor to the guv, even after she saw the zombie head tanks.  I resent the writers for making her such a biatch idiot.  But they seem to always have to have at least one  biatch idiot woman for us to hate.  Lori part deux.

  • UglyTalents

    I played online Scrabble through the episode, just to keep myself entertained! The prison is the new Herschel’s farm, and they need to leave already. The unfired gun, the pointless cryptic conversations, and is Herschel flirting with the Governor’s science officer? Why did Rick even go to the negotiation if he knows that in the end the Governor is just going to try to kill them all, no matter what?

  • royinhell

    Did that Darryl/Other Guy walker-killing-male-bonding scene remind anyone else of ‘Red River’ and its homoerotic gun play? 

  • Scoobydrew

    You know it’s a bad episode when you find yourself agreeing with Merle. Of course this led to … “Crap, I’m agreeing with Merle. Is this a trap? Is Merle secretly with the Gov. still?”  

    And how would the Shane/Lori/Rick thing come up in conversation – I hate Andrea!

    • UglyTalents

      I know, that was not cool, Andrea. Not cool. 

      • cornpicker73

        Agree! Why is she filling in the Gov with Rick gossip?!

  • cornpicker73

    It was ok. I agree that it was WAY too much time for 2 alpha males to have a chit chat. I was waiting for the Gov to make a threat about a tank of sharks with friggin laser beams on their heads. But it did build the tension for me since I was waiting for a shootout. I did like the Daryl/Martinez scene. And the Hershel/nerd scene. BTW, “advisor”?! Mr. Science seems totally clueless. I guess being a Smithers is his survival tactic. 

    I also think Hershel’s “he’s a sick man” line was ok. Maybe a dad doesn’t want to go into detail about what his daughter experienced. Maybe Maggie didn’t even tell him the detail, so as not to upset him. Plus, Andrea already pretty much knows– details unimportant. Maggie and Glenn’s make up sex. Meh. I was too scared that a stray zombie or Woodbury henchman was going to cockblock. What about the babysitter shooting the ceiling. That was pretty LOL. I was like, you’re going to wake the baby! I actually thought they might go with Merle to sabotage. Oh, well. I didn’t read that Rick was thinking of giving up Michonne. He MUST know the Gov will off all of them. But maybe he knows she’s a pretty good carrot. I do understand the attachment to the prison. Like if they can just get their feet under them, they could turn it into a good option. I’m not saying it is rational (hell, what is rational in the ZA?) but that I get it. Also makes sense that the group is split about stay/fight/go/etc. I hope Michonne brings up her island idea again and they figure out how to make that happen. Then they can live happily ever after.  

    • NoGovernmentName

       I would think, as the father of a woman who was sexually assaulted, he would see it as his duty to warn a woman away from the molester. Why beat around the bush? The Governor used sexual intimidation on Maggie. TELL Andrea that!

      Rick totally seemed like he was going to give up Michonne: he asked Hershel to talk him out of it. Why would he need to be talked out of something he isn’t planning to do?

      • editrixie

        Yeah, but since this show is clearly being written by and planned by men who are stuck in these ridiculously patriarchal ideas, that’ll never happen. I just can’t get past the sexism and racism on this show…and the fact that it’s all manifested in this behavior and dialog that never goes anywhere or that people would never say. It’s so frustrating — that used to be a hallmark of soaps back in the day, that you built up your storylines by having characters never admit their feelings and never tell the truth about situations. And it worked there — that was what kept you tuning in day to day. It does not work in a post-apocalyptic drama where survival depends on people making choices and explaining those choices.

        • NoGovernmentName

          I read another reviewer online who posited that Hershel was deliberately vague so that Andrea would think the worst. If so, boy, that didn’t work, because she went right back to Woodbury with “Phillip.” Sigh.

  • harlowish

    Rick is an idiot if he thinks giving up Michonne will really get the Governor to stop.  He’s seen enough to know that’s not true.  It’s another case of a supposedly savvy character acting stupidly to get the plot moving.

  • Kimmu

    I stopped watching the show in the first season, but man, reading these posts about the show has vilified Andrea, messed up Michonne, and clearly dropped the ball on the prison and Governor storylines makes me sad because the comics were so good. Andrea is an amazing character in the comics and the misogynist bullshit they’ve pulled with her in the the show is just….ugh.

    • I’m starting to think I should just give up on the show and start reading the comics.

      • cnaf

        If you read the comics you’d probably never go back to the show. It’s as if they know they have this great source material, and are desperately trying to prove they can make a better WD…or they want badly to be able to “wow” everyone, and figure you cannot do that if you know what to expect. Very maddening at times.

      • NoGovernmentName

        Except no Daryl in the comics… 🙁

  • Not that it really matters, but this meeting is a major departure from the novels- it didn’t happen there and it never ever could. I don’t care if they stray from the world of the novels (which are too dark, bloody & violent for AMC) but it has to be for a good reason. After 15 minutes I stopped watching and just listened while I did something else.

  • snich11

    Most boring ep EVER!

    Hottie Darryl was the only redeeming part.

    • NoGovernmentName

       Pretty much always ogling Daryl is the only redeeming part.

  • VermillionSky

    Rick & Company should have decided to leave the prison before the governor broke down their fence and killed another member of their group.  They know there’s a large group of living people nearby who not only would kill them just to steal their stuff, but also are bloodthirsty for revenge against them.  That prison will never be safe as long as that town still has living people. 

    I’d really like to see the characters in this show start thinking about the end game.  They need to move to a plains or western state with fewer people, living and dead, and the ability to see walkers for miles, not just to the border of the trees.

  • sockandaphone

    What makes me sad is that (oh im gonna be one those people comparing it to the comic book SORRY) the prison drama in the comic book was so intense and amazing. It is still my favorite part of the comic book and they are making it so sloppy in the show. 

    • cnaf

      Not to mention how terrible they’ve gone about developing the character Michonne. Up until last week it was downright pathetic.

      • sockandaphone

         this too! it upsets me how little development she gets and in the comic book shes such a complex badass character

    • MilaXX

       I really think it’s a budget issue They spend so much on making these sets that they have to commit themselves to that location for the entire season.  I wish they could taker advantage of the split seasons and move on, or if they budget wise they are stuck in the same local for all 16 eps then do some character building that is more than sitting around talking about nothing. That ep with Morgan fleshed out Michonne more than all the  episodes she has been in combined.

      • tereliz

        Right, but if they’d shore up the prison enough to be able to leave some folks there while the rest of them went out looking for supplies/having adventures, the format of the show could be invigorated without adding too much to the cost of the show. Like last week’s: How much could it have cost them to dress the set in Rick’s old town that Morgan had defended? 

        I’m all about adding character development to the show, and that’s something that often needs to be done in a more episodic fashion in TV series, and separate from the overarching plot arch, if that makes sense. I loved last week’s episode because it felt self-contained, while at the same time addressing lost plot threads and serving to advance the overarching plot (if a little too convenient to find an arsenal just when they needed one). 

        • BigShamu

          It cost them a lot.

          • tereliz

            Well, whatever it cost, it was worth it to have some real worldbuilding for a change, imo. 

  • sockandaphone

     dont give up on the show but READ THE COMICS!

    • Sobaika

      I’m planning on starting them soon. Hope they’re available on eReaders.

      • sockandaphone

        this was meant as a reply for somebody else…weird…but anyways yes! do start! i power through them last spring and honestly it hasnt ruined the show for me. i think its exciting to see what they do with the storylines and characters in the comic book

      • jeeplibby02

        Yes, they are, but I wish that someone would adapt them into novels.  I tried to read the first one on my Kindle, but I just can’t handle the comic book format.  

  • I can see why they would stay at the prison.  Being able to lock themselves in at night and sleep without worrying about the walkers is a huge comfort.  Imagine how ragged they were on the run, maybe only getting a few minutes sleep here and there.  Also, now they have a baby that’s going to cry and alert walkers. 

    Who else thought that look The Governor gave Rick when he finally drank the whiskey meant that he’d drugged or poisoned him?

    The whole time Maggie and Glen were hooking up, I kept expecting a zombie to raise the door up.  My husband was like “No, Carl with that death glare saying Y’all are supposed to be on watch PROTECTING US!!”

    Nearly every episode since the beginning my husband has asked “When are they going to go find the prison armory they were talking about?”

    • Mismarker

      Re: the prison armory.  It was mentioned a few episodes back during a convo between Daryl and Rick, I think.  Apparently, they did find it but it had been completely cleaned out prior to them finding the prison.

  • cnaf

    Anyone else wondering if the Gov is going to whip out some heavy artillary for the “war”? I can’t hel[p but think there are rocket launchers or something that he got a hold of when he wiped out the guardsmen earlier in the season. Just waitin for the right moment to unveil.

  • Donald Hite

    I didn’t think this episode was that bad… Granted, not much happened, but a few things did happen which helped (possibly) clarify a few things for me, so I wasn’t completely disappointed.

    We’ve all be very frustrated w/ Michonne’s lack of character development and standoffishness… However, when seeing Rick presented with the option of (maybe) buying their security by sacrificing Michonne, I think it had to be a tough choice.  If Michonne had blown into town and immediately endeared herself to everyone it wouldn’t even have been a question.  Imagine if the Governor had said “give us Carol and this all ends”.  Of course it makes no sense, but it shows that when the character in question is someone we really care about it’s completely out of the question to give her up.  With Michonne we’ve been given just enough to want to protect her but not so much that we are 100% sure she’s worth sacrificing the whole group for.  Ultimately, Rick made the right choice, but I think it needed to be a tough choice for him.  Perhaps the writers weren’t completely misguided in their development of Michonne’s character after all.

    Also, despite all the Andrea bashing, she seems to have finally gotten it.  I think Herschel’s comment about the governor being a “sick man” was enough.  At least it was enough for the audience, since we know what happened.  It looks from the previews that Andrea is fixing to start a rebellion at Woodbury, so I’m hoping that the Andrea is stupid thing will be put to bed soon enough.  At least I think her attempt to get Rick and the Governor to work things out was admirable, though naive.

    • NoGovernmentName

      You think he was right to decide to give up Michonne? Or did you not think that was the choice he made?

      Also, do you think Andrea calculatingly went back to Woodbury just to off the Gov? 

      • Donald Hite

        He decided not to give up Michonne, right? That was my understanding. And I think that was the right choice.

        I don’t know what Andrea’s intentions are, but she is definitely torn and from the previews it looks like Milton warns her the governor is planning to slaughter them and she starts to undermine him.

        • NoGovernmentName

          I didn’t think he had decided either way?  He wanted Hershel to talk him out of it, but I thought they left it unresolved. I agree that not giving her up is the right choice.

          I think it’s terrible that we don’t know what Andrea’s intentions are in going back to Woodbury. I mean, she knows Rick has a baby. She knows now that Phillip did something sick to Maggie. She knows that Michonne is her friend and the Gov wants to do horrible things to her. What else does she need to know???

          • Donald Hite

            I don’t think he literally wanted Herschel to talk him out of it.  I think it was just his way of acknowledging that it was a difficult decision and that it would be easier if they could just give her up (even though they would never do that to her).  Herschel stated unequivocally that Michonne had earned her place, and Rick and Co. have been loyal to their own no matter what (ex: spending a whole season looking for Sophia when she was obviously dead).

            I think the writing is on the wall for Andrea.  I think she knows what she needs to split with the Governor, but is struggling with how and when.  That’s what it seems to me.

          • NoGovernmentName

            But he flat out said to Hershel, “I want you to talk me out of it.”

          • Donald Hite

            Yes, but I think this was an acknowledgement that Rick couldn’t make the choice to give her up (bc it’s wrong).  He (and we) know full well that Herschel would never suggest it (as proved by his response about Michonne earning her place).  He was acknowledging the “rock vs hard place” nature of making a morally correct decision that has negative consequences.

            He may have “wanted” him to talk him out of it in a theoretical sense, but he knew he wouldn’t.  Further more, even IF Herschel had attempted to talk him out of it, I know Rick still couldn’t do it.  He’s a decent man, often to his detriment.  

          • BigShamu

            For some reason I remember it as Rick asking Herschel to talk him out of taking the group to war.

  • ScarlettHarlot

    When the most exciting thing that happens in an episode is Beth shooting a gun into the air, there’s a problem. 
    This episode was so frustrating, and it was only compounded by the fact that I watched Girls immediately following it, and man, if there’s anything I hate more than Andrea, it’s Allison Williams’ singing.

  • Another issue with storytelling: Rick asking Herschel to dissuade him from bartering Michonne *after* the writers released all tension by confirming that the Governor won’t keep his word. The conversations with Milton and Andrea could’ve been a good con, not transparent lying. So instead of being encouraged to believe that detente is possible, or that Rick misjudged the governor, and thinking hard about things, I’m left a little annoyed at the main character for sounding dumb.

  • quiltrx

    I know it’s simplistic and probably wouldn’t be good storytelling either…
    …but with zombies and basically the world itself to fight, why do these two groups want to fight each other?  And the Governor only has a handful of people who know or even suspect he WANTS to fight.  Not a good way to start an army.

    I’m with Herschel and Carol, who thought they should take their chances on the road.  There’s more out there than just outside Atlanta.  And maybe we could lose someone and spend several eps looking for them again (JUST KIDDING).

    • NoGovernmentName

      I think human society would devolve back into warlords and factions squabbling over resources, so that seems pretty realistic, even if the way they are going about it is silly in this show. 

  • BookishBren

    I think they want to stay at the prison because they had a lot of trouble finding shelter all winter, they are sure about traveling with a baby, Hershel isn’t the most mobile….I think because we didn’t really see what they went through between leaving the farm and finding the prison, we can’t really understand why it is so meaningful. 

    I am sick to DEATH of Andrea being crammed down our throat. I know there are Andrea fans out there, but I find her to be a completely unlikable character at this point. When she accused Michonne of turning everyone against her/the prison/the Governor (“What did you tell them?! line), I lost patience. They are clearly building her up to be some sort of savior. It is just coming across as super nauseating to me. Especially when we haven’t seen hardly anything of Carol this season. 

    I agree the face off was boring. I don’t have any issues with conversation, but again no one really said anything. 

    Disagree with you about Maggie and Glen. I was really happy to see them finally start to heal from Woodbury. That felt real to me—two stubborn strong people not knowing what to say to make it better. I think the hot, garage sex was a product of not knowing if they will be alive in a few hours. I did worry about what could have happened while they were off having sex since they were on watch. 

    I think what I have the hardest time with is that (I think) the writers expect the audience to be wailing and gnashing our teeth that Rick might hand Michonne over. OF COURSE HE ISN’T GOING TO DO THAT. Michonne is a major character. Rick is supposed to be some sort of hero. Michonne is totally safe right now. They might do some sort of fake out and pretend to hand her over, but Rick isn’t crazy enough to think the Governor’s word actually means something. 

  • DinahR

    I don’t get why Rick’s group won’t leave the prison either.   I also don’t understand why they don’t attempt to organize their own ‘Woodbury’…  somewhere completely else.   

    I thought a good point of last week’s episode was that Rick isn’t the same naive zombie-newb that ran out of his hometown to look for his family.  He can practically kill zombies in his sleep.  It was not easy for them to clear out the prison, but they did it.  They’ve seen that holding a ‘town’ will work and some ideas for creating defenses.  They’ve seen one character single-handedly barricade himself in with zombie traps.  There have been plenty of examples in just this season where making a home base is possible.  In fact Hershel was successfully doing it until Rick stormed onto his farm.  I can see why they want a situation with built in defenses, unlike the farm.  They learned that lesson, but other options are out there.   He could go back to his own hometown, for instance.  

  • Just some quick research and each of the episodes that Scott Gimple has written have been quite good in the storyline, Clear Hounded, 18 Miles Out, etc. Maybe he needs to get a promotion and become head writer… And TA-DA — he has! He is replacing Glen Mazzara for next season so fingers crossed he keeps up the good work and we all enjoy every minute of it!

    • ScarlettHarlot

      Yes, but then who will replace Scott Gimple once AMC decides there are too many “creative differences” with him? 😛

  • Zippypie

    Pure unadulterated filler.

    Though I love the comments below about crisp bras, dyed to the roots hair and beards.  You all ROCK!  Much much more entertaining!

  • EEKstl

    Yes, yes and yes.

  • tereliz

    Talking heads and writer flops aside, the epicfail in this episode still came down to Andrea being a freaking idiot, imo. Why would she just stand there while Rick and the Gov are having their dick-measuring contest instead of trying to mediate? Or saying, WTF, you assholes, there are only 45 of us HUMANS tops, and like a jillion walkers/biters. We are going to need one another for food, supplies, (gene pools) and possibly to join together in case a threat even worse than the Gov comes along. Not that I trust the Gov, but his people are mostly innocent. The “raid” was already blamed on Merle, and could be explained so that the people of Woodbury would trust the prison folks. The Woodburians have already shown that they trust Andrea’s jugement (ignorance is bliss). If the two leaders weren’t bat-shit crazy or someone (ahem, Andrea) had shown them what insufferable dicks they were being, a tense peace could have been established.

    Then we could have more episodes like last week’s. Episodes that are (gasp) episodic, wherein smaller groups of folk from the larger group leave the prison for the day and have their scenes in the spotlight and time for character development and world-building. Wouldn’t that be nice?

    But no, Andrea just lets them kick her out of their pissing contest (apparently because she doesn’t have the right equipment) and refuses to read between the lines of what Herschel is saying (although, c’mon Herschel, you’re killing us with the vagaries!) and gets back in the truck with the Gov. What an idiot. I’ve just about had it with this show, and Darryl, you need to let Carole give you a haircut. 

  • Liz

    Are you not doing Revenge anymore?  Because Hampton Batman IS BACK!!!!!!

  • PREACH! 

  • dickylarue

    The writing, again, pulled me out of the episode. Spot on by TLO mentioning the frustrating thing LOST did where characters would never say obvious things to one another. 

    You set up a showdown between Rick & The Gov. where the Gov has a concealed weapon and there’s no payoff? That’s writing 101. At least have Rick discover the gun taped to the table when The Gov leaves or something if he’s not going to use it in the episode. It’s like putting a ticking time bomb in a room with characters only to have the clock’s battery die and the bomb doesn’t explode. 

    These are not smart writers. It’s painfully obvious that they are setting up Andrea to be the hero of the season. How they are getting there is ludicrous. 

    And I too don’t understand why Rick doesn’t leave the prison. He saw how Morgan took a city block and made it his own. 1 man. You don’t think that might inspire him to do something similar? He just learned how to keep walkers out from Morgan and instead he wants to stay in the place where a man with more guns and people want to kill him and everyone with him?

    If the show had set up that everyone in Rick’s group were truly exhausted and ready to die in a blaze of glory vs. Woodbury, it’d be one thing. But they’re not there yet. 

    It’s a frustrating season after a previously frustrating season. And the people making the show will not raise their game because the ratings are through the roof. 

    But this show will never ascend to Breaking Bad, Mad Men levels. It’s about 10 steps below LOST which was pretty damned good until they realized they didn’t know how to end it and screwed it all up. 

    The ideas are there. They have good actors. But the execution of the writing is just poor. They’re getting by on concept, gore, violence and pulp. This isn’t great storytelling. It’s style over substance. 


    4 days later, I am still trying to get through the episode…….  yak, yak, yak……

  • Enough with the Andrea is an idiot diatribe. Andrea is NOT an idiot. TPTB are idiots for REPEATEDLY showing the audience that X is bad, withholding that information from Andrea and then having Andrea choose X. It’s an old horror / suspense trope to show the Lead Characters approaching a danger they are unaware of that we the audience can see. Andrea is the VICTIM of REPEATED horrible writing choices of TPTB. She has actually made sane choices with the information SHE has been given.

    Governor has walker heads in fish tanks. Yeah, so? Andrea spent the whole winter with Michonne who had a pair of armless, jawless walkers to survive. Moreover Woodbury is a town with walker fight clubs where they have walkers as a way to release tension and fear of walkers.

    The Governor tried to have Michonne killed and he sexually assaulted Maggie (lack of penetration is not need for sexual assault). Unlike the fish tanks, I agree, those actions are undefendable. Except what did Andrea do that was idiotic AFTER given that information? 
    –Not stay with Rick? Well, he didn’t exactly roll out the welcome mat for her. 
    –Returned to Woodbury? Yes, but she did that to follow Carol’s advice to kill the Governor and end the conflict, hopefully. However, killing walkers ain’t the same as killing people, plus, she realized something else, pretty basic about herself: I ain’t a Judas. She couldn’t go thru with it,
    –Not simply leave Woodbury? People forget, she was a defense lawyer … Before. She couldn’t leave those hapless helpless Woodburyans (Woodburities? Woodburyoids?) to the untender mercy of the Governor, the military guards and/or the walkers. She stayed to help them. Sheesh, the experiment with Milton and the walker (not to mention Heschel on the Farm) showed her how sheltered those folks were from even basic walker facts. Also defusing the conflict would save the lives of her friends at the Prison–including Michonne.

    Speaking of Michonne, it’s she that’s been the real idiot. Dumb is not knowing any better. Stupid is knowing better and yet still choosing the bad choice. Michonne has been the poster child for stupid idiot of the year. She was the one who refused to simply tell Andrea WHY she didn’t trust the Governor. Michonne could have mentioned the bullet holes riddling the military trucks that the Governor claimed were left on the road after a walker attack by some passing military group. More maddening was Michonne not mentioning to Rick that Andrea was alive at Woodbury. Given how much Andrea loves to talk, there was no way after spending the winter together that Andrea didn’t tell Michonne about them–especially considering in only a few days she apparently told the Governor about Rick, Lori & Shane (hey, Andrea thought they were dead from the Farm massacre). How did Michonne think they’d react on reaching Woodbury and discovering Andrea was alive? and to her NOT revealing this pretty important bit of news?

    However Michonne is redeemable as a character, as demonstrated in “Clear” and to a lesser extend in last Sunday’s ep where she actual talks and participates with the group. Carol was the worst character last year and she was redeemed to be not only a useful member of the group but an interesting character in her own right (which poor Axel realized too light “But you’re a lesbian … you got the short-hair… well, this IS interesting.”). Carl, who was relentlessly mocked last year, has been not only tolerable but enjoyable onscreen. 

    If those characters can be redeemed by better writing, so can Andrea–or at least stop writing her making the wrong decisions that only we the audience know about.

    Then again, better writing helps everyone. As demonstrated in “Clear”, and previously in “18 Miles Out” and its follow-up, “Judge Jury … Executioner”, a nearly all-talking episode CAN be entertaining–if people actually say interesting things and not being overly-vague AND underly-curious about said vagueness. Yes, for a while I suspected The Island on LOST had spores in the air that made everyone maddeningly UNcurious about various goings on and whenever someone said something Mysteriously Vague (“What the frell do you mean Sayid was ‘claimed’?” “All this time on this stupid Island and you Temple Folk only show up in the Sixth Season? What have you been doing all this time?!” “ENOUGH ALREADY, Locke, why can’t you two just straight out say what you mean?!” “YOU TOO, BEN, why can’t you just straight out ask for help instead of all the cloak and asinine dagger crap?! Of course, I’ll help save you! I’m a doctor, for pity’s sake. It’s what we do. I didn’t sacrifice a decade of my life to medical training to NOT use my medical skills you idiot!

    Um, wait, we were discussing THE WALKING DEAD. So yeah, good writing for the win. Bad writing stinks–especially for Andrea who has been a victim of it and deserves our support.”

    • Andrea is a character, and as such, does not require our support for being a “victim” of bad writing. She’s just an example of bad writing, and one that deserves to be pointed out when critiquing the show. We really don’t find any of your arguments here very persuasive. Severed heads in tanks simply don’t compare to two chained walkers. The former is sadism personified and the latter is simply a way to survive in the world. And we’re not sure how the Governor’s practice of zombie gladiator games is supposed to defend his zoo of severed heads. Andrea did NOT “try” to kill the Governor. She stood over him with a knife and then did nothing. THAT’S WHAT MAKES HER AN IDIOT. You can’t give a character credit for something they didn’t do. Otherwise, we should all be praising Rick for keeping Lori alive. To quote you: “Stupid is knowing better and yet still choosing the bad choice.”

      We have no doubt she will be portrayed heroically somehow in the coming conflict, but it won’t negate the shitty writing that went before.

  • The prison set must have cost a bomb to build. Ergo the characters have to stay there till at least the end of the season.