Orange is the New Black: You Also Have a Pizza

Posted on June 21, 2014

Orange-Is-The-New-Black-Season-2-Episodes-5-6-Review-Tom-Lorenzo-Site-TLOElizabeth Rodriguez, Dascha Polanco, Jessica Pimentel, Selenis Leyva, Diane Guerrero and Jackie Cruz in Netflix’s “Orange is the New Black”

 

Love is in the air at the Litch, giving the show the perfect opportunity to have all the characters offer their thoughts on the matter. It’s Valentine’s day and Piper, new editor-in-chief of the Litch’s new newsletter (which was pulled right out of Piper’s ass, so to speak, because she was asking too many questions about the facilities), is interviewing all the inmates on the matter of love. The answers are illuminating, from Sophia’s “Horrible pain – that you want again,” to Poussey essentially describing her relationship with Taystee: “Kicking it with someone, talking, making mad stupid jokes and not wanting to go to sleep” to Norma’s perfect wordless description of love as a place of pure peace and comfort. And while Flaca and Maritza’s 5-guy massage with pizza was probably the funniest definition of love, Aleida took the cake for the most vehemently descriptive take: “24/7, deep-dick, can’t-walk-right fucking.”

And in her first flashback, Poussey is revealed to be someone who loves perhaps a little too hard. We’re more interested than ever in her backstory now (the hallmark of a really good flashback). We’re not surprised that she speaks German, but we are a bit surprised that her father seems to have been totally accepting of her gayness. She obviously didn’t grow up without pain in her life (because she carries herself like someone who has), so we’re wondering what exactly landed in her prison, coming as she did from what looks like an accepting, middle class existence.

But like the interviews that are sprinkled throughout the episode defining love, this flashback also helps to explain the intensity of Poussey’s relationship with Taystee. Like we said, she loves hard and she doesn’t seem to love smart  - although you could probably say that about 90% of the inmates at the Litch. She’s bound to get hurt by her one-sided relationship with Taystee; especially with Vee so eager to exploit any weakness in her sight. When Poussey confronts Vee over her manipulations of the other girls, calling her a “vampire,” Vee zeroes right in on Poussey’s major weakness: her heart. “Taystee. Will. Never. Love. You.”

All of the ladies are feeling the weight of, as Nikki called it, “This. Stupid. Fucking. Holiday.” Flaca and Maritza bemoan the fact that they’re never going to be as hot again as they are right now, with no one around them to appreciate it. What followed was a kind of cute momentary exploration of girl-on-girl that collapsed into giggles and then sadness. Piper doesn’t feel she has a home anymore after blowing up at Larry and calling him “the moon.” While she had a point and Larry is a big loser dork (“At least people can walk on the moon. People get to close the sun, they burn up.”  THAT IS AN AWFUL BURN, LARRY) that’s not how you talk to someone with whom you’re trying to reconcile. She’s no better at interpersonal stuff than anyone else in that prison. Meanwhile, the ever-tragic Healy leaves a creepy voicemail to his nasty wife. “I’m a good man, Katya. You’ll see that. I’m going to make you really proud.” Sounded like something a mass murderer says before heading out to fame and glory.

But the most disturbing form of love finally got the light shown on it that it deserves. We were never among the fans of the show who thought Daya and Bennett had anything that could be considered sweet and romantic. They both clearly convinced themselves that they did, but it was high time for the show to point out that, at its heart, this relationship is irrevocably fucked up. There’s nothing to change the fact that the power balance between these two is seriously off. Granted, they “solved” the problem with makeup sex and avoided doing too much examining of the situation, but you can tell something’s changed in Daya.

But if there’s anyone who’s happy at the Litch right now it’s Red, who knows that love has to be earned if not bought outright in a place like this – and that power only comes if you have people who support you and look to you for help.  ” We’re going to need each other soon, All of us,” she pleads to Norma, Gina and Nikkie. “We’re stronger together.” We’re not quite sure how her son managed to find the end of the drain pipe that leads into the shed, but you’ve gotta admire Red for turning a situation around. “Well look who’s back,” says Yoga Jones. But with Vee locking up the cigarette black market and Red locking up the contraband red market, there’s bound to be a turf war – as if there weren’t enough reasons already to worry about this place exploding.

But there are occasional moments of grace in this pile of shit, such as the highly unlikely duo of Suzanne and Lorna, bonding over their shared mental illness. “I know something about loving people who aren’t smart enough to love you back,” says Suzanne, in that heartbreaking way of hers. “I’ll let you in on a little secret I’ve learned: they don’t deserve it.” Lorna admits she still believes in love and asks Suzanne if she thinks that’s sad.  “Oh, no,” replies Suzanne. “I think that’s brave.” In a place like prison, believing in love is practically an act of rebellion. Also: Suzanne looks like she gives great hugs. When she’s not smelling your hair, that is.

 

Note: We’re terrible, no-good lazy TV bloggers with a case of summer-itis that keeps preventing us from doing the multiple-episode reviews we promised. We’re going to switch to multiple reviews per week instead, and pick this up again on Monday or Tuesday, with the next episode, and then, say, Thursday, with the episode after that. 

 

 

[Photo Credit: K.C.Bailey for Netflix]

    • mmebam

      I was absolutely captivated by Poussey’s backstory. I do wish they explore it more and explain how, exactly, she got in jail.

      • Kaonashi

        She mentiones to Tastee in an episode that she was in for selling weed. After that flashback in Germany with her rolling that joint I believe her.

        • mmebam

          Thanks, I missed that.

        • KateWo

          Ah, mystery solved

        • Miss Disco

          i’m so confused by prison sentences in this show, although i think healy mentioned the injustice of that ages ago. Isn’t Poussey there are like 3-4 years? Are these things really arbitrary in the states? Can you really get completely out of a lengthy sentence like Alex’s with just one bit of evidence? (I’m gonna assume though that in real life it would be incredibly sloppy to let two witnesses be able to discuss, in a van to the court, their respective statements?

          • snarkykitten

            Maybe Poussey’s stretch wasn’t that long, but she got more time added to her sentence due to bad behavior? or she got caught selling to minors or something? I don’t know a lot about the (US) CJ system.

          • Fay Dearing

            Prison sentences here for drug offenses are really messed up and vary greatly depending on a lot of factors from if you can afford a lawyer (the free court appointed ones tend to be not that great and severely overworked), your race, and what you’re selling. Selling drugs is considered drug trafficking and there’s massive sentences for doing it.

            So for example I looked up the federal minimum sentencing for selling drugs and the minimum sentence for someone’s first offense to manufacture, distribution, or possession with intent to distribute anything less than 50kg of pot is up to 5 years and a $250,000 fine. Also, distributing anything over 5g to a minor (which under federal law is defined at under 21 NOT 18) OR if you sell pot within 1,000 ft of a school, housing project, youth center, video arcade, public pool, or playground automatically doubles your sentence AND your fine.

            Depending on how much Poussey was caught with, where she was selling, and who she was selling to she could be in there for anywhere between 1 year to 10 years, and that’s if she was just caught with pot. If she was caught with anything harder (like meth or heroin) the sentences are WAY harsher.

            • Miss Disco

              her attitude towards vee and the girls for doing heroin kinda suggests that poussey isn’t there for doing a really hard drug.

          • Glammie

            Poussey tells Taystee last season that she has four more years, I think.

            And,yeah, the whole witness thing would never happen that way. You get deposed (and deposed) for one thing. You don’t go into a court as a witness without the lawyer knowing exactly what you’re going to say. I made the mistake of witnessing a serious accident once and dealt with endless questioning–and that case didn’t even make it to court.

            But Piper not knowing that she was going to testify and the DA not knowing what she’d say is not realistic. Also, Alex’s attempt to change Piper’s testimony would, I think, fall under “tampering with a witness”–also illegal.

            • P M

              The weird thing is that that part is straight out of the book. Apparently, she didn’t know she was being hauled out and placed in max in order to be a witness.

            • Glammie

              She wasn’t interviewed by the lawyers before going on the stand? That’s really strange. I get her being hauled around mysteriously, given the way prisoners are treated, but it’s strange she wouldn’t have been deposed before showing up in court. Maybe they were using whatever she’d admitted/testified as part of her plea bargain.

          • Beth Burleson Swartz

            There was a woman in Oklahoma, where I live, that was given a 10 year sentence for selling a small amount of pot. Granted, she had children in the home where she made the $30 sale, but she had no prior offenses. I can think of multiple instances, as I’m sure you can, of those that got away with so much and served little or no time, It makes no sense. Sorry to be Debby Downer. (She was Native American btw)

            • Miss Disco

              i’m not stateside, so i don’t know. i was under the impression that weed is a lesser offence, and google seems to suggest in the UK that possession is a £90 fine, though selling is a different matter.

          • demidaemon

            I think the prosecutors were desperate after Piper’s testimony (obviously, they thought she would be the easy one) so they offered Alex a really great deal to get the testimony they wanted. Also, considering how they ended up in prison, and the fact that they were in the same facility for their sentences, they probably thought it would be okay to transport them together. Also: it’s cheaper as well, with one vehicle and less staff to be paid to watch them.

      • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

        Also, she had A+ punk-butch style, oh my God, I was drooling over those outfits.

        • L’Anne

          Also, she got to make out with Gudrun!

          • Logo Girl

            Ah that WAS her!

            • L’Anne

              It sure was, Logo!

    • WinterSantiaga

      The whole conversion therapy thing suggested by the dad of Poussey’s girlfriend rang a bit false, but it was nice to see a military father defending his gay daughter, nice way of not playing into the stereotype, even it may be a justified stereotype.

      • Latin Buddy

        I’m from Texas and have had 2 friends run away from home when their parents took them to conversion therapy after coming out. One is LDS and the other is Baptist. It happens, unfortunately.

        • WinterSantiaga

          I wasn’t saying it doesn’t happen! But the chance of a German, even if he might be extremely conservative and/or religious suggesting some kind of therapy(I don’t remember what exactly he said) are extremely slim. Conversion therapy is not widely known here. I didn’t even know it existed in Germany until a few months ago when I read somewhere that they banned it or at least tried to. (And I went to a private Christian school for a few months when I was 15. The school had some kind of teacher/student gay sex scandal shortly before I got there and homosexuality and how wrong it is was discussed during every class, almost every day and conversion therapy didn’t come up once.)
          Oh, and I’m not saying her girlfriends father wouldn’t have had a problem with his daughters sexuality, either, I’m just questioning the choice of words.

          • Thomas

            Wouldn’t teacher/student sex count as pedophilia though and not homosexuality? Unless the student was of legal age of consent, in which case it might be homosexual, but inappropriate nonetheless.

            • WinterSantiaga

              The age of consent in Germany is 14. There are a few exceptions, one of them being if the minor in question is under your care, which would apply to a teacher/student “relationship”. But even then, in the eyes of the law a teacher having sex with a 15 year old wouldn’t be comparable with a regular adult having sex, or rather raping a 13 year old. And the punishment for either offense isn’t comparable to the US.
              I never found out how old the student was. I asked several times but all they said was “it doesn’t matter, all that matters is that homosexuality is wrong”. I’m paraphrasing a bit, of course, but not exaggerating. ‘Homosexualitiy is wrong’ really was all they cared about and all they talked about. All I know is the student must have been between the ages of 17 and 19, based on which part of the school I knew he was attending (in Germany you had to attend school for 13 years if you wanted to go to university. It’s 12 years now, at least in some places. That’s really neither here nor there, I know :))

            • Thomas

              Wow, 14 is quite young! In NY it is 17. Thanks for enlightening me on this.

            • wavewalker

              Just chiming in – that’s not completely right. The age of consent in Germany is 14, but only if the maximum age of one of the partners is 21. If one partner is older than 21, the age of consent rises to 16. If there is some sort of dependency (student/teacher etc) or it’s prostitution, the age of consent is 18.

            • WinterSantiaga

              That’s not quite right. The if one of the partners is over 21 part of the law is one of the exceptions, but there are other factors. I think that unless the adult is a known sex offender only a parent or guardian can report them to the police. And then the court has to establish that the minor was not capable of giving consent because they lacked the maturity to understand sex or something like that. Which apparently isn’t as easy as you(or I) may think it is.
              Just for the record, I think the age of consent laws are way to lax here in Germany.
              And as far as the teacher/student part of the law, even if found guilty, the teacher only faces a sentence between 3 months and 5 years, which I think is ridiculous. That means that even if the teacher is found guilty, they may keep their status as a teacher employed by the state (you have to be convicted to more than one year in jail to loose that status), which I think is comparable to teacher’s tenure in the US in some regards.

            • Giel

              I found the suggestion to someone to let their adult child go to a gay camp from a European person a little strange. That’s an American thing for sure, thought it was really poorly researched.

            • wavewalker

              Thank you for pointing this out for me. I might have been unclear on that, which wasn’t my intent.

              I might have misunderstood you in that regard – what I got from your comment mainly was that the age of consent would always be 14, but I think especially the over 21 part is very important. Even though this might have to be taken to court, I think it has to be named to put the basic rules into perspective.

              I totally agree with you regarding the fact that laws are too lax in that regard. Especially when it comes to teachers.

              Thanks for correcting me :)

            • WinterSantiaga

              I hope I didn’t come across as too obnoxious! :)

            • wavewalker

              Not at all, no worries :)

            • Glammie

              Pedophilia refers to a sexual attraction to pre-adolescents, so possibly a stat rape, but not necessarily pedophilia.

        • KinoEye

          These are the kind of things that make me ashamed to live in Texas. When I was in high school, a friend of mine had a crush on one of the football players. He somehow found out and convinced his dad (a constable) that my friend was stalking him. He was expelled, and I nearly was too for defending him.

          The football player is currently unemployed and my friend just graduated from Stanford and now works at Google. Life can sometimes be good that way.

          • Thomas

            KARMA

      • deelup

        I thought it was sort of breaking one stereotype while playing up another one (military dad being understanding vs big evil german).

    • Sarah

      I really enjoyed the Poussey backstory. I feel her – I am a military brat, and people really DO get moved around for “inappropriate relationships.” It is not a made-up scenario. I’m wondering if we’re supposed to think she ended up in prison because she did something similar to what she tried to do with her GF’s father with someone else, but didn’t get rescued before it went too far.

      • KateWo

        Me too… They only gave us partial Poussey and Suzanne back stories. I wonder why? I’m assuming Suzanne had a fit and assaulted someone. As for Poussey, I’m guessing she probably was never the same after that incident and cracked

        • Thomas

          I don’t even think Suzanne should be in prison. I think she should be in a psychiatric hospital so she can get the help she needs. Same with Lorna I guess. Since I’m on this point, I don’t think drug users should be in prison either. They should be in rehab. Not only is prison not helpful, but it’s a waste of tax payers’ money. Only drug dealers should go to prison because they’re perpetuating the problem.

          • demidaemon

            Unless she was determined mentally incompetent to stand trial, they would probably still try her and imprison her regularly. As we can see, Suzanne generally has her full faculties, and, again, it is a lot cheaper to put someone in a regular institution over a psychiatric one.

            • Thomas

              I know, but I don’t think cheaper is necessarily better for society. If criminals don’t work out their mental health or drug problems, they’re likely to end up back in the system and we end up paying more for them in the long run.

        • Sarah

          I am hoping it’s because there’s more to learn there. I am starting to think of OITNB the way I think of the Harry Potter series. Not too far in, I realized that if J K Rowling put a character/incident in the books, no matter how seemingly insignificant, there was a reason for it. I figured the rest of their stories would come along eventually.

      • Blueathena623

        I really want to say its because she sold pot. Not sure why I think that.

        • Glammie

          She makes a reference to selling marijuana at one point.

    • trapperkeeper

      Pennsatucky hugging Healy on the bench was the best thing ever.

      • boweryboy

        I don’t like how now she’s comic relief. Give me Bible thumping batshit crazy Pennsatucky any day.

        • Thomas

          They must have put Pennsatucky on some good meds. I’ll take whatever she’s having.

          • snarkykitten

            The bible-thumping was all for an audience. She clearly didn’t give a shit about the good lord in her flash back. She just used religion as her soap box/attention-getter. I think she’s realized in part that no one is paying attention to her anymore, so she’s dropped the god bit. Besides, she’s already got her new teeth!

            • P M

              I have to say kudos to the actress for taking on the horrible teeth with such gung-ho. That and the horrible hair and the emaciated makeup really made the look of the character and called for a lack of vanity from the actress.

          • PaintingChef

            I keep thinking that it’s going to come out that she suffered some sort of brain damage from when Piper beat the shit out of her. Her personality seems changed enough to make me think that’s the case.

        • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

          Hm, I don’t see her as comic relief this season at all.

          • boweryboy

            She’s not as intense as she was last season, and the whole thing with her new teeth and how no one would acknowledge them was total comedy. Plus I think her interactions with Healey are played for comedy too. The only time she was back to her old self was when she went off on Soso.

            • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

              It’s all a matter of viewer interpretation, I guess. I thought the thing about how much she wanted people to acknowledge her teeth, and never getting that, was actually sad — of course she wanted that, it was a huge deal to her, and with her limited prison environment, there are no benefits except letting her chew food more easily. Like with Red and other characters, her power and position in her group has changed since last season, and I think we’re going to see more in future of how she’s going to struggle to deal with that.

              I didn’t find her interactions with Healy humorous, either. Like the unexpected moment between Lorna and Suzanne in this episode, it’s a fascinating take on how two very different characters build a bond, and we get to see how they relate to each other, including all the pitfalls.

              Ironically, the scene with Soso that you say she was back to her “old self,” was the most comic to me. “You smell a fucking turtle tank, go take a shower.”

            • boweryboy

              I couldn’t agree with you more about everything you wrote. There is definitely a poignancy to those scenes and for me it felt like it was presented in a humorous way to lessen the emotional impact. I found the Soso scene sad but not funny because here was someone expressing herself in the only way she knows how in order to be heard. I find that Pennsatucky much more fascinating.

    • Logo Girl

      I want to know more about Flaca and her mod-sounding boyfriend.

      • ShaoLinKitten

        THE SMITHS! “How Soon Is Now” is like, an 80s anthem!

        • Anita Karenin

          Man, is Flaca Puerto Rican? I thought loving Morrissey was an exclusively Mexican subculture.

          • ShaoLinKitten

            That’s an interesting question. I don’t think they’re all meant to be PR. I’m guessing all the Latinas hang together regardless of country of descent. A big portion of the population in federal prison is due to immigration issues, so who knows? Maybe we’ll get a flashback on Flaca to reconcile her new wave/emo music tastes with her gangbanger facial tats.

            • P M

              For real? I’m not from the US, hence the ignorance, but MAN, that’s f-ed up.

      • MaryMcClelland

        RIGHT! I’m dying to know her backstory, Maritzas, and also Ruiz’s. And of course I need more info about Poussey – don’t we all!

    • KateWo

      Thank you uncles! I just finished the season today and came here hoping you had another review up. I thought this season was much more powerful than season one upon completion, and this episode was one of my favorites. And I hope we never see Larry and Polly again.

    • Latin Buddy

      Poussey’a backstory broke my heart. First, she speaks German!!!! Second, the expressions on her face when Tastey didn’t kiss her AND when Vee told her she would never love her.

    • MilaXX

      Poussey won my heart with this episode. Daya and Bennett are dragging on much too long going round and round the same discussion and avoiding the truth.

      • ShaoLinKitten

        I’d like to see their relationship go awry horribly. Then it might be interesting. Maybe when Daya is called to testify against Mendez? We might see her taken out of Litch for a court date, and when she has to face him, she might cave? Something. As of now, they are so boring. It’s not a love story. It’s not romantic. I hope the writers blow it up. Look how much interesting drama was created when Piper/Alex blew up? Or when Tasty/Poussey blew up? Next season, I have high hopes. Imagine if Daya chucks Bennett under the bus, and we have Mendez visiting Daya at Litch with their baby. That would be crazy.

        • Miss Disco

          even if the baby isn’t Mendez’s, he was still seen having sex with her, so he’d still be in trouble (as Caputo pointed out in season 1, before Fig decided to just suspend him). Realistically, they’d have to both go down.

          But….. i’m sure there’s a small group of us still questioning whether that’s definitely Bennett’s, and its not a pre-prison hook-up?

          • Another Kate

            I’ve been thinking that all along — it’s her mother’s boyfriend’s, what’s-his-name, Cesar. She should have received a pregnancy test when she entered the Litch, of course, but if she and Cesar had had one last fling a couple of days before she went in, or if she was tested with a faulty 20-year-old pee stick that had been sitting on the shelf forever because Fig was cutting corners and didn’t update the inventory, or if the test just didn’t happen, for whatever reason, it’s definitely possible.

    • Inspector_Gidget

      I think this is my favorite episode of the two seasons. At least one of the top. Love how they came up with a device to include pretty much everyone on the show in the story.

      Larry and… Piper’s adulterous friend, whatever her name is… can both jump right off a cliff. Self-absorbed like Piper, but– unlike Piper– 100% uninteresting. I really, really hope they are either gone or greatly diminished in Season 3. They add not a thing.

      I’m glad this show won big at the Critics Choice awards but… comedy? I guess that’s what they are calling any show that isn’t grim and devoid of humor these days. How is this not primarily a drama?

      • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

        YES, I loved this episode so so much, too. It just tied together beautifully, thematically. That was such a great device, interviewing everyone about love without actually saying the question or letting us know who was doing the asking, until you figured it out. And lol, Bennett’s standoffish response.

      • oldscrumby

        I think I’m the only one kind of rooting for Larry and Polly. 1. I think there’s some significance in how it was Polly who was telling Piper what to look for in a spouse which lead Piper to Larry; I think Larry is what Polly actually wants in a spouse instead of what she got, a needy manchild instead of an irresponsible one. 2. The incredaible social faux-pas of their hookup would be such an utter catastrophe that they would drop out of Piper’s life and thus out of the story. We would be free! Who am I kidding? They’d never let that go…

        • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

          I don’t think we’ve seen nearly enough to judge Pete as a manchild. Yeah, leaving for a month after the birth of his child was a bad move, but apparently she did tell him to go.

          • Glammie

            But he should have not gone or wanted to go. So, not totally his fault, but indicative of his immaturity.

            That said, I don’t know of a mother of a newborn who would have had the energy or libido for an extra-marital affair . . .

          • Fay Dearing

            I feel some sympathy for him. Pete seems to be some kind of of exotic photographer or Nat Geo type field reporter so him leaving sort of makes sense. It’s how their family makes their living considering Polly seems to be some sort of stay-at-home Mom. I mean she has her soap business, but she doesn’t seem to be going through with it now that Piper’s in prison. Considering that they just had a baby Pete may have been extra pressured to go to pay the bills. A job like his probably doesn’t have healthcare built in.

          • oldscrumby

            Unless they give him some serious story time to better flesh out his character (please no) then I’m comfortable calling the guy who’s only really been shown drinking, partying, being shitfaced drunk as his wife goes into labor, and then running off for weeks once she’s had the kid, a manchild. Pete comes off as a more cosmopolitan version of Piper’s brother Cal except that dude seems to be maturing a bit in his relationship with his girlfriend and friendship with Larry where’s as Polly’s husband is not. Pete just isn’t around, and while that doesn’t make him evil it does make him seem pretty self-center in the same that Piper, Larry, and Polly are all pretty self-centered. But where prison is making Piper look a bit more outside herself, and Pete and Piper’s respective absences make Polly and Larry use each other to fill the void, Pete is still stuck on himself and what he alone wants.

      • Jay

        Orange’s submission in the Comedy category here and at the Emmys is strategic. Netflix submitted the show as a Drama to the SAG awards and Golden Globes; it was shut out at the former and only received one nomination at the latter. Had it been campaigned as a comedy, I think it would have done much better.

        • demidaemon

          I agree that this is their strategy. I also think that they don’t want it competing with House of Cards. Besides, comedy has been pretty much solely owned by Modern Family for the past however many years, so some new blood to shake up that paradigm will be good.

          Still, at best, it’s a dark comedy, and I even feel I’m bullshitting that.

          • PaintingChef

            Completely off topic, I know but I LOATHE Modern Family. It’s incredibly overrated and seeing a more deserving (in my opinion) show get some recognition is so refreshing.

            • demidaemon

              I don’t loathe it, but I certainly think it’s too much of an awards favorite. It’s better than most laugh track comedies, but it isn’t as awesome as it was when it first started.

    • Andrew Schroeder

      Slightly OT, but does anyone else hope we’re going to see the warden next season? Granted, I don’t know anything about how prison admin works, but I find it a little unrealistic that we (and by extension, the inmates) haven’t seen him once. We haven’t even heard his name.

      • Fay Dearing

        I’ve never been to prison but I did find it believable considering the Warden doesn’t even seem to have an office there. I’m assuming there’s another building somewhere that houses all the HR needs (since they’ve mentioned things like secretaries and we’ve never seen one) and the Warden may actually be in charge of multiple prisons.

        That said, I’m starting to imagine the Warden as someone who doesn’t actually exist. A bureaucrat who somehow is still pulling a paycheck even though he/she hasn’t been in the office for 20+ years… A mysterious super villain with such astounding levels of dullness that no one ever wonders anything about them.

        • Thomas

          Or maybe doesn’t exist at all because Figuera doesn’t want to pay them.

          • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

            How would an Assistant Warden be in charge of a Warden’s salary, or whether their job exists at all? That doesn’t make sense to me.

            • Thomas

              Oops! You’re correct. I got her job title mixed up lol

        • Glammie

          Warden’s oversee one prison. And, yes, we should have seen him/her by now. The warden would be at the prison. Not sure why OINTB has taken the invisibility route–I suppose because warden’s don’t spend time with prisoners the way the lower administrators do.

        • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

          In the book the warden only appeared once at the orientation and then was supposedly available for 15 minutes every Thursday so I can understand if they chose not to show that character on the show and focus in on the lower management types.

          I do not think we saw the warden during the orientation in the TV show unless she was the lady with the big hair in the video they played – I’m fuzzy but I think we saw Figueroa instead who was at the time executive assistant to the warden and was there for “womens issues” but she totally ignored the one question she was asked.. :)

      • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

        Seriously, the fact that we haven’t even heard his name is driving me crazy.

      • P M

        I thought Figuero was the warden’s stand-in.

    • Man Dala

      This was my favourite episode of the season.

    • boweryboy

      Daya and Bennett’s storyline is my least favorite. It also doesn’t help that I think the actors, while both good, have zero chemistry. I kind of thought they would make Daya lose the baby so they could drop their storyline. And the moment Red’s son showed up in the pipe I thought, “Why doesn’t she escape? Or at the very least go outside the gates for a few hours?”

      • Thomas

        Good question about Red. That’s definitely a hole in the story. I like Bennett just because I think he’s cute.

        • boweryboy

          I don’t mind staring at Bennett because cute but then there’s Daya and the whole every conversation is whispered chit chat about the baby and stuff. Booooring. Just as boring as Larry and Polly.

          • Glammie

            I respect the show for trying to deal with the women-in-prison-with-kids issue, but I actually felt more watching the visiting scenes with the mom, the toddler girl and the grunting/silent boyfriend.

      • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

        Because she knows she’d be caught, sooner or later, and probably moved to max security with more time on her sentence. Nothing she could get out of a few hours of freedom (in the woods) would be worth it.

      • Lumiel

        Agreed, boring story line and seems to be going nowhere. Perhaps also they could have given some back story on Bennett. I find both characters entirely dull. I agree with T&L view on that the relationship’s power structure is way off. Yet I don’t see what good Daya would see coming out of Bennett coming clear and going to jail? Also I find it hard to process that she would have any sympathy for Mendoza considering how he treated the inmates. Wonder how long she is in for and for what exactly, the drug dealing at her house?

        • boweryboy

          I would like more back story on Bennett as well. I mean doesn’t he have friends outside of work? Women who are interested in him? Access to online dating sources if he’s lonely? I’m hard pressed to believe he would sacrifice his career and freedom for a little jailhouse nooky unless his time in the military has made him not right in the head.

          • Lumiel

            I was also wondering about his military background and solitary life he seems to live. The problem really is that character seems to have no depth and is a bit too one dimensional. If they want to spend so much time on that “affair” they should really give more context. What I find cool about the other flash backs is that not only have they shown how the inmates have come from difficult circumstances where there are no real good options, but they’ve also shown how the characters who seem sweet have a dark streak running through them and little or no ability to think about long term consequences (Lorna, the Nun and Poussey). Bennett however seems a bit too much like a simple sweet guy who just happened to fall in love with an inmate..Like you said, not right in the head maybe.

            • P M

              When did we get the nun’s back story?

            • Glammie

              Later part of Season 2.

      • oat327

        Part of it’s that Red’s been in prison for, what, a decade or more now? Since the last time Vee was there? I don’t think she’d escape because she’s become native–she has her “family” and her business at Litchfield. Look at how broken she was, in the first few episodes this season, when she lost both. She’s a person who needs and feeds on power, meaning, and importance–but, on the outside, she has nothing left, and I think she knows that.

        Plus, we don’t know how much longer she has at Litchfield. If she’s on the last year of a long sentence, why bother escaping at this point?

    • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

      I don’t think you’re disappointing us by spending more time on each episode, and speeding up the posting. :)

      God, what an A+ episode, am I right? I loved the interview device, letting us gradually figure out who was doing the asking (Bennett’s reaction was priceless). And I didn’t think it was possible, but at the end I loved Poussey twice as much as before. Her eyes BREAK MY HEART. And the fact that she can speak German, and OH MY GOD HER CLOTHES. HER STYLE. And the way she just collapsed in her father’s arms when he caught her from making a very, very terrible mistake. Poussey.

      I liked Maritza and Flaca’s conversation, their attempt at lesbianism before realizing that it definitely didn’t work for them. Sweet and realistic, a good picture of how lonely they are, too.

      I don’t know which moment of connection was a bigger surprise or more touching: Lorna and Suzanne, or Healey and Pennsatucky. You guys are totally right about him sounding like a mass murderer with that voicemail, heh — and I hadn’t thought of it as Lorna and Suzanne bonding over their shared mental illness, but yeah, that’s what it was.

      God, Larry and Polly (and Chapman) are just the worst. “Would the moon do this” — oh my God, Larry, shut up and never speak again.

      • Thomas

        It seems like I’m in the minority, but I actually like Piper. I think that despite all of her flaws, she still seems like a nice person who cares deeply about people and the injustices in this world. Thus, I don’t think she’s as self absorbed as everyone says she is. She is/was very naive and can be condescending, but I don’t find her anywhere near as annoying or self-involved as Soso.

        And I would agree with TLo that Lorna and Suzanne were bonding over their mental illness, except for I don’t think Lorna even realizes that she’s mentally ill. I don’t think stalkers usually realize that they have a problem or that they’re doing something wrong.

        • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

          I will say that I don’t detest Piper as much as Larry and Polly (as of this season). And I don’t want to get ahead of myself by referring to events in the finale, so I’ll stop there.

          And no, I don’t think either Lorna or Suzanne were aware of their mental health issues in that conversation.

          • Thomas

            Yeah, I find Larry and Polly unredeemable. And I’m only on episode 8, but now you’ve made me want to binge watch to the end so I can find out what happens in the finale!

            • snarkykitten

              The last 5 minutes of the last episode made up for any and all quibbles I had about the entire season.

            • demidaemon

              Agreed. Although there are also a few moments in that same episode that just floor you. But those last five minutes—beyond gratifying.

          • ShaoLinKitten

            I think Suzanne is acutely aware of her mental health issues, but Vee perversely helped her realize that she was worth of better treatment than what Piper gave her. Sadly, that lesson came from the worst user in Litchfield…

            • Glammie

              What treatment of any sort does Piper owe Suzanne? Suzanne stalked her and worse–given that, I’d say a hands-off polite attitude by Piper is the most Suzanne is owed by Piper. Don’t really see anything constructive about Vee’s treatment of Suzanne–as in I don’t think Suzanne will end up in better shape as a result.

            • ShaoLinKitten

              Going back to S1, Suzanne was really hurt by how she was portrayed in Larry’s radio show. Granted, that was Larry being an asshole, repeating stories that Piper told him without her consent. Regardless, it was hurtful and Suzanne was wary and resentful of Piper after that. Where Piper went wrong IMO was not in avoiding Suzanne, but in the patronizing way she tried to make friends with her this season. Suzanne punched her while calling her MOMMY. Big, creepy red flag, right? Nope. Piper got something out of it (not getting in trouble for beating up Pennsatucky), so all is forgiven. She consents to be friends with Suzanne. We know that Piper is very transactional and self-centered, but imagine how Suzanne must have felt. Vee’s pep talks made her able to reject the crumbs Piper was willing to throw her for her service.

              No, obviously Suzanne won’t end up in better shape due to Vee’s attentions. Vee is toxic. But the reason Vee is so successful as a manipulator is that everything she says has a grain (or more than a grain) of truth, and she’s really good at making people feel indebted and connected to her. Her messages to Suzanne about her value, her strength, and her uniqueness were exactly what Suzanne needed to hear. But of course anything positive from Vee comes with a huge price tag attached.

            • Glammie

              Hmmm, yes, but Suzanne was also crossing major boundaries as far as Piper was concerned. We feel sympathetic toward Suzanne because we get that she’s mentally ill, but in real life, she’d be a pretty scary fellow inmate. Piper is “transactional and self-centered”, but my take is that part of the reason for that is that she’s in prison and trying to survive–she can’t simply leave town to avoid Suzanne. She can’t be “natural” because that means being vulnerable and being a target by being seen as weak.

              Vee’s a psychopath/sociopath–people define the terms different ways–manipulative and dead cold under her maternal act. We’re talking about a woman who preys on kids at adoption fairs. I think Piper’s dopiness toward Suzanne is meant kindly, whereas Vee’s words of power are anything but. Suzanne’s even more vulnerable than Taystee.

            • ShaoLinKitten

              In total agreement with you on all points. I guess what I found irritating about Piper’s treatment of Suzanne was her reaction to Suzanne punching her. That was NOT an act of kindness on Suzanne’s part. It was creepy and scary, and could have been a lot worse for Piper. Instead of realizing that, somehow Piper treats is like some favor Suzanne did her, which she will now deign to repay with token gestures of friendship. Either that was bad writing (because even though Piper got out of trouble as a result, how could she think it was meant as a friendly act?) or Piper really is that clueless. She assumed that, after all that’s happened, Suzanne would just be so psyched to be friends with her. I was glad Suzanne shot her down. Showed some modicum of self-esteem.

              The sad part to me was that this shot of self-esteem had come from Vee, who linked it to herself and thus turned Suzanne into her creature.

            • demidaemon

              I don’t think Piper saw it as an act of kindness. She was grateful for Suzanne’s actions, no matter how misguided, because, had Suzanne not punched her, she would have certainly killed Pennsatucky. She’s more grateful that, for whatever reason, Suzanne stopped her from making an unavoidable mistake (that would have extended her prison sentence indefinitely and probably sent her to supermax). Now, Piper has tragic tone and appropriateness problems, and the way she presented her gratitude probably wasn’t right and Suzanne should have refused her, at least then. Yet, Suzanne only refused her because she had gotten false support from Vee, who clearly singled out the weakest in the pack (mentally) and used her to her ends. That’s one reason I was so glad for this episode, because at least at the end, old Suzanne comes back, for just a fleeting moment. I was glad to see she hadn’t completely lost herself to Vee, at least for now.

            • Glammie

              Agreed that Piper’s “friendliness” to Suzanne was off–felt like a writing fail to me–i.e. didn’t make sense given what we know of the characters. Not sure that Suzanne was showing self-esteem, unfortunately–more like she was now falling in line with her new mother-figure. There’s still no sense of Suzanne having a sense of self. Poor thing. We haven’t ever heard any reason that Suzanne’s in prison, have we?

            • P M

              I got the impression that Piper doesn’t remember the ‘Mommy’ part.

          • Blueathena623

            Suzanne has a few conversations in season 1 that show she is aware of her mental illness.

            • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

              True, I hadn’t been thinking of those.

        • julnyes

          I don’t hate Piper, I just don’t find her as engaging as the other women in prison.

          I don’t see where you are getting that Piper cares that much about injustice? I mean, Soso is a political activist and goes on a hunger strike against the prison conditions. She seems to be more concerned with injustice.

          • Thomas

            I agree that some of the other women are more engaging. Piper seems to care about the injustices, at least to me. She got the track re-opened (although that was partially self-serving), she seems genuinely interested in where all of the money is going even though she’s looking into it for a journalist, and she actually seemed to care about that “golden girl” who they just dropped off at a bus station. I guess what I’m trying to say is that she seems caring to me. Soso is like an extremist. I haven’t finished season two yet though, so my opinions aren’t fully informed about all of the characters.

            • julnyes

              She notices some of them (mainly when they are affecting her) but she doesn’t actually make any attempt to do anything about them (if they don’t directly impact her).

              I don’t think Piper is a bad person, but I also don’t think she is a particularly good person either. She appears to be politically liberal and environmentally conscious in the “no plastic bags” way, but nothing that would take sacrifice or effort. Additionally she was blissfully happy getting herself involved in the fancier aspects of the international drug trade without any indication that she thought of the negative societal impacts. Soso is annoying, but I honestly think she is a better person than Piper.

            • Thomas

              Oh, I’m not saying that Piper is a better person than Soso, I’m just saying that she’s more likeable.

            • julnyes

              I see, likeability is so subjective. I wouldn’t spend significant amounts of time willingly with either of them! I’d be all over a hang out session with Tastyee, Poussey and Nicky.

            • Thomas

              Oh, I’d rather hangout with Taystee, Poussey and Nicky anyday as well!

            • demidaemon

              Well, we don’t really know why Soso is in prison yet, so I don’t think this is an entirely fair assessment.

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            Please don’t spoil future episodes.

            • julnyes

              Sorry :( Us binge watchers need to be extra vigilant when we post. Won’t happen again!

            • Trickytrisha

              I’m having to stay out of the conversation ’cause, like so many of us, I viewed all of season 2 in a couple of days and the separate episodes just run together. The mark of an exceptionally good show, IMO.

        • oldscrumby

          Yeah, but Soso is pretty much a caricature of a self-involved airhead so it’s not really a fair comparison. I don’t hate Piper but she’s really at her best when she gets out of her head; it’s why I found her much more tolerable when she got back together with Alex last season because it meant she stopped thinking about the relationship so much because she was back in it. Hopefully the paper, and the general prison investigation, will have the same effect this season.

          • snarkykitten

            I don’t understand Soso’s purpose. So viewers can compare her to Chapman and see how far Piper’s come from being the annoying SJW?

            • Glammie

              J? Jewish? Piper’s not Jewish, though Larry is. Or is there another J?

            • snarkykitten

              Social Justice Warrior

            • Glammie

              Thanks. In that case, yes, I think we’re meant to see the contrast with her. I liked Soso more as the season went on, FWIW.

            • oldscrumby

              I think it’s so viewers can compare her with Chapman and see how much harder Piper has gotten since coming back from Chicago. Piper isn’t at Red, or much less Vee, levels of toughed prisoner, but she’s not as guileless as she was when she started. Granted, that point was made in one episode, so I’m glad to hear that they’re going to do more with her as the season progresses.

        • ShaoLinKitten

          I like Piper a lot more this season than last. I love that she’s getting in touch with her inner tough chick, with a touch of sociopathy (horse trading Brook for a blanket– that’s cold).

          • https://www.facebook.com/NORNCUTSONART Norn Cutson

            well, it ★WAS★ Ms Claudette’s blanket!!!

          • Glammie

            I thought Piper was well-used this season–we saw her, but she was not the center of all the major story lines. I didn’t feel like she was artificially inserted into plots where she didn’t belong, but her arc wasn’t dropped either.

          • P M

            Let’s be honest though, wouldn’t you want to rid yourself of Brook? She’s really annoying.

        • KateWo

          I like Piper, but I also like that the show is becoming more of an ensemble rather than having Piper take the lead. I don’t like Piper/Larry story lines and if they continue to go into Pipers personal life I hope it revolves around her family instead.

        • Glammie

          You’re not alone. I like Piper. I think she’s meant to not be that different than the other characters–i.e. she’s a bridge between the privileged viewer and these prisoners. By seeing how she got herself into her mess, we’re able to enter, sympathetically, into the story of, say, a compulsive stalker who plants bombs under the car of her imaginary boyfriend’s girlfriend. She’s also privileged enough on the outside that we can see that when she gets out of prison, she’ll be in a better situation than the people who work at the prison, like Healy. There’s a big examination of class going on with the show, though the show’s smart enough that disadvantages aren’t the only reason people end up in prison. (Particularly a Camp Fed.)

          • P M

            The examination of class is one thing I really like about this show. It’s such an unusual situation (and how strange that it actually happened): the epitome of privilege is immersed in the depths of how ‘the other half’ lives in the worse-case scenario. And her BF (in real life) is a journalist (I’m fairly certain he is, at any rate).

            I really wish this would be a show that would open a national conversation about the prison system, which, alas, I think is an overly optimistic hope.

            • Glammie

              He’s a writer, not sure he’s a journalist–researches stories and writes them up–but maybe he is.

              We could use a serious conversation about prisons–the privatization of many is leading to all sorts of exploitation–but I don’t know when it’s going to happen because most people in prison are poor and disadvantaged minorities, so corporate money has no vested interested in helping them.

              Federal prisons, because of white collar/financial crimes, are more likely to have affluent types than state prisons. Martha Stewart was at a federal prison, so was Patty Hearst.

            • butterflysunita

              I think the show has gotten people talking more about the prison system, though I do hope it goes beyond a superficial level. It costs so much to incarcerate a person–and for nonviolent offenders, the money could be spent instead on drug rehab, mental health care, education and job training.

    • NinjaCate

      Question Uncles: How do you figure that Healy’s wife is nasty? She reads to me like someone who is obviously only there for the green card, but who had hoped to at least get stuck with someone she liked, and instead got stuck with an possessive, mean, borderline MRA. I don’t remember which episode it was, but the scene where he gets all pissy because he wanted to take her out without notice and she’d already made plans kind of solidified for me that Healy is THE WORST and he obviously thought he was paying for a woman to be at his beck and call, not a person with feelings and emotions of her own.

      • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

        Healy being terrible doesn’t make her into someone good, though. She’s been cold, mean, and emasculating to him in every scene she’s been in.

        • NinjaCate

          Well, I kind of always saw that as a reaction to him, but I guess I could see that too. The scene in S1 where she and her mom won’t speak in English definitely kind of supports the idea that she… looks down on him I guess? I didn’t read it as emasculating, but yeah, I see it. Thanks for replying. :)

          • Miss Disco

            i’d say he got what he paid for – a wife. He bought her like an object, and doesn’t realise that she has an identity and that he isn’t all that either. I mean, obviously, if you’re the kind of person who’s willing to marry a complete stranger for a green card, you’ve got messed up ideas anyway (i head though that this is essentially a career-option for some russian girls) but she’s not a real person to him, and she’s probably given up the performance of wife he paid for – we don’t actually know how long they’ve been married.

            He doesn’t understand at all how relationships work, and the fact that this woman is actually a stranger, who he would never have met. If his comment about his own mother’s electro-shock therapy is anything to go by, he’s been emotionally twisted for a long time.

            • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

              “She made a lot of soups after that.”

      • Blueathena623

        But is Healy ever really mean to her? For the date thing, my interpretation was that he doesn’t always get evenings free, hence him kinda springing it on her, and even her friend didn’t think the plans were that important.
        I wonder if he’s still taking care of her mother too.

        • NinjaCate

          The springing thing wasn’t what bugged me. He wanted to do something nice for her and it was supposed to be a surprise. I think that was nice of him actually. He was trying to nicer to her and make a change in their relationship. It was the immediate switch to “WTF BITCH CAN’T YOU TELL I’M TRYING TO BE NICE TO YOU?!?!?” that creeped me out. It was a nice gesture on his part but he must have known there’d be a chance it wouldn’t be welcome. I think instead of demanding she change her plans he should have asked to reschedule.

          I think his outburst cancelled out the nice gesture is what I’m saying.

          • Blueathena623

            I will defer to your viewing of it because I binged the day it came out, so I haven’t watched the episode since that day, but my interpretation was more “I really want to spend time with you, I don’t have many chances, you can see your friend any day, hell, your friend can come with us if you want, but I want to go to dinner with you.” If memory serves me correctly, later in the episode, on V-day, he calls her (and gets her voicemail, where is she?) so I was thinking he really wanted to do that dinner because he knew he wouldn’t get a chance with her on vday.
            He’s mad because his wife, who he cares about as much as he has the capacity to care about women as people nor objects, very obviously doesn’t want to spend any time with him. To be truthful, if I planned a date for my husband, and he told me nah, he wanted to go drinking with his buddies like he does all the time, I’d be saying some choice words as well, and it wouldn’t be “well, you can bring your friends too.”
            I think Healy has A LOT of issues with women. So many. Truckloads. But I wish they would make his wife a tiny bit nicer because to me, there seems to be at least a tiny message of “if his wife were nicer, he would be a better person” and I don’t like him getting that excuse. TLO has (have?) made the astute observation about how much control the guards have over these ladies lives, and how outside events affect them, so Katya not liking the blue dress Piper picked makes Healy feel bad so he takes it out on Piper, etc. But I really feel like Healy was not over the top in this ONE episode, that Katya was in the wrong, and I thought it was sad sweet that she snapped at him to speak Russian and I think at least part of his voicemail was in Russian.

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              I don’t think the message with Healy’s marriage is that he’d be a better person if his wife was nicer.I think Healy’s story has the same message as almost everyone else’s in the Litch: If he made different choices, he might not be so unhappy. Like a lot of MRAs, he thinks of women as “others” and can’t really see them as fully realized people. And because he’s such a damaged person, he thought he could actually buy a wife and have it magically turn into a loving marriage.

              She’s awful, but it’s not her fault that he’s awful too. If she was fully loving and supportive in every way, he’d find some way to find fault, act wounded, and take it out on others. It’s just who he is.

            • Glammie

              Well, that’s depressing. I think he *might* be a better person with a supportive, loving spouse, but he set up a situation where that was never going to happen because of what you say. It’s the deep irony of his character that he’s a counselor, but has no idea how to really communicate or connect with women (anyone?).

            • enuma

              The pattern I see over and over with Healy is that he doesn’t do the nice thing to be nice. He does the nice thing to elicit a certain response, to get something specific in return. He treats women like they’re vending machines. He expects that when he puts Niceness Tokens in, he should then receive exactly what he wants (Love, Affection, Sex, Gratitude) in return, as if these responses should be instantly delivered like so many cans of soda. And then, when he doesn’t get what he wants, the way he wants it, he does what a lot of people to do “broken” vending machines. He gets mad and shakes them down, figuratively and sometimes literally.

            • HeyNonnyMouse2

              Whew, this part of the episode with Healy, and the commentary about it,
              has been really stressful for me (I guess “triggering,” to use the term
              du jour). I am married to a Healy type (yes, present tense, which is why
              I am commenting under a pseudonym, rather than use my regular handle). Enuma, your
              vending machine analogy is actually really, really accurate, and I can
              attest that someone like this will NOT necessarily be a better person
              even with a supportive, loving spouse (because I really was exactly that
              for the first decade).

              I think the MOST telling interaction
              with Healy this episode is when he tells Bennett that the secret to
              women is to “make it look like you are meeting them halfway, but really
              only give 10 or 15%” (paraphrased, so I don’t have to go watch it again
              for an exact quote). That is the kind of behavior that makes a person
              feel devalued and dehumanized, as Katya would, even if outwardly Healy
              is never shown to be explicitly mean to her.

      • P M

        Pardon my ignorance, but what’s a MRA?

        • mixedupfiles

          The men’s rights thing.

        • NinjaCate

          Men’s Right Activist. I’d link you, but I don’t think TLo allows links.

          • Fay Dearing

            You don’t want a link. They’re scary and gross.

    • snarkykitten

      No complaints about more recaps from you guys!

    • Lumiel

      I think the whole story with Daya and Bennet is getting more and more boring. Also I feel all the latino women in the series have only melodramatic story lines that carry no real emotional or dramatic weight. The kitchen seems to be a place for a separate soap opera that doesnt fit well with the rest of the program. I do wish OITNB would cut back on story lines on next season and rather focus more deeply into few story lines. I was wondering about Larry&the friend story line and Piper’s weird family. Why did the writers pick such lousy, uninteresting characters for the back story? Is the purpose to highlight the contrast between Piper and her (white) well off family and friends in NYC and the people with various backgrounds in prison? By showing how boring/dull lives they live and how meaningless problems are blown out of proportion.. As T&L pointed out before, the women in Litchfield love too strongly for their own good, and that is the biggest contrast to Piper&Larry’s flat and one dimensional love story. And artesan soaps? C’moon..

      • ShaoLinKitten

        It is my fervent hope that Piper’s life outside of Litchfield will be phased out of next season. I don’t know too many people who find that storyline remotely engaging. Neither Larry nor Polly interest me at all. Piper’s brother is slightly interesting, so maybe they could have him pop up now and then, but beyond that… I care far more about the inmates than anyone on the outside. Also second your feelings about Daya/Bennett. I would love to see what would happen if they had a major falling out.

        • Lumiel

          I think its good to have some story lines outside of prison as well for balance, but they could really concern more interesting characters than Larry & company..

          • MaryMcClelland

            I do too – it’s a nice contrast to show just how depleted and depressing the circumstances in prison are. And how much the women are losing while they’re locked up. However, I totally agree that the focus needs to shift away from Piper’s family and embrace some of the other families. For instance, wouldn’t you just LOVE to see Ruiz’s boyfriend (husband?) and the baby and whats going on there. LOL. Also, I want to know what’s up with Poussey’s family!

            • Logo Girl

              I totally agree about Ruiz’s boyfriend. I imagine his story of someone who seems to be perhaps rather loving but may hesitate to use words is a lot more interesting than Larry, one who talks way too much and only for his own indulgence.

      • Glammie

        But it’s not a contrast–Piper also doesn’t have good judgment in love. Alex got her put in prison by ratting her out (something Piper still doesn’t know), while her fiance cheated on her with her best friend. Piper’s no great shakes (though I don’t share the Piper hate), but she makes bad choices in the love department.

        With you on the Daya/Bennet plotline–it’s been the main Latina storyline, so I think that’s why we don’t have the same sense of characters with that group as we do with the white and AA women. Gloria’s standing out more though. I don’t think it’s the melodramatic plots that are the problem as much as Daya’s not been that interesting–I kind of think it’s the actress. She’s just not that dynamic.

        • Lumiel

          I think there is a big contrast, especially regarding Piper-Larry relationship and Piper’s family, it all seems so artificial. What I was trying to say is that surely the show’s makers dont think that the viewers can identify (or even like) Larry and the whole scenario? So it must be a way just to highlight the difference between piper’s life and Litchfield. I also find Gloria to be an interesting character, the others not so much. And you’re right the actress playing Daya has not shown much range

          • Glammie

            Not sure why they’ve made Larry such a dweeb. I can only think it was to give Piper a reason for falling back into her destructive relationship with Alex and to isolate her more from the outside world. In a sense, everything Piper worried might happen while she’s in prison is happening–life and people have gone on without her. She’s getting through prison, in part, on the idea that she can pick up her life where she left off. It becomes increasingly clear that she can’t and that she’s fairly powerless to do anything about it.

            I notice that Daya’s mother’s practically disappeared this season, so I think the writer’s are moving toward the Latina characters and actresses they find more interesting. We saw a little more of Flaca and Maritza and the mom with the toddler and the thuggish looking boyfriend (a series of funny/heartbreaking scenes that get the point across.) Big move toward Gloria, who is interesting and is played by someone with acting chops. Then there’s Rosa, who looks to be Cuban, though not part of the kitchen gang.

            • P M

              I’m just glad thug boyfriend has the sense to clothe the little one in baby clothes and not mini thug outfits. Although, it’s probably his mom that’s raising the kid, no?

            • Glammie

              Or her mom. We don’t know. On the negative side, he’s been dead silent and the prisoned mom believes that if she’s transferred he’ll find someone else. On the positive side, he has been showing up (apparently) every week and bringing her daughter and (ETA–oops, accidental spoiler pulled.)

          • demidaemon

            I think the point is that it is all artificial, in that it is mostly based on lies, and I don’t think the point is to have us identify. It’s to show us that Piper really never belonged in this world, much as she tried to force herself to.

        • https://www.facebook.com/NORNCUTSONART Norn Cutson

          They really need to bring Aleida to the front, she’s SO FUNNY.
          I’m glad that they softened her up a bit this season; she’s WAY more interesting than her daughter!

        • demidaemon

          I thought she found out Alex ratted her out back in S1?

          • Glammie

            My recollection is that Larry learned that Alex had, but he lied to Piper about it. I don’t think Piper’s ever learned the truth–though if I’m wrong, someone let me know.

            • http://redheadedwolf.wordpress.com/ Laura Renee

              Yes, she found out the truth, and she and Alex had a confrontation about it. (Piper tried to pretend first that it was fine, she didn’t care, but Alex pushed her to admit it wasn’t fine, and Piper had only tried to pretend it was so she could keep her as a backup partner.)

            • Glammie

              Funny, I still don’t remember the details of all that–I think I’ve sort of put Alex/Piper into no-it’s-never-gonna-work-stop-it-you-two. Those two are toxic for one another, both of them are better people when they’re not together. The show’s chosen, though, to put them together–to the point of turning Larry into a total loser, whereas the real Larry seems like a kind of decent guy–he did write an op-ed about visiting Piper in prison, but it didn’t reveal any details about her life.

            • demidaemon

              Yep. It was a major plot point. Part of the reason Piper totally lost it on Pennsatucky. That girl (Pennsatucky) has the real skill of saying the thing that hurts someone the most without even knowing how damaging and true her words are.

            • butterflysunita

              Piper found out the truth towards the end of season 1.

            • Glammie

              Okay, thanks. Sigh, I shouldn’t binge watch–I clearly forget stuff.

        • MaryMcClelland

          Piper knows it was Alex who ratted her out.

    • Glammie

      Lazy summeritis? You guys just put out a review on a Saturday. Lovely review. I did binge and I kind of think that this episode was sort of the emotional (not plot) centerpiece of the season.

      There’s some reference to Poussey dealing marijuana and having four more years last season. She really does love Taystee–enough so that she was angry with her when she violated parole and came back.

      That said, I’m still shipping Nickie/Poussey. Not that they’ve ever had a scene together.

      • Blueathena623

        Yes to Poussey dealing pot, but do we know why it’s a federal prison?

        • Glammie

          No, we don’t know the details of her crime, but there are all sorts of ways drug-dealing can become federal crimes.

        • Fay Dearing

          Dealing drugs is both a federal and state offense. It’s the main reason why I personally decided not to pursue a license to grow medical marijuana to sell to a dispensary. Even though it’s legal in my state and I have the green thumb to grow the plants, at any time I could be arrested by the feds and put up on charges. At the moment it doesn’t look like the feds are going to do that, but I’m still not willing to risk it considering the possible consequences.

          • http://foodycat.blogspot.co.uk/ Alicia

            That’s some pretty annoying contradictory legislation! I can understand why you wouldn’t want to take the risk.

          • KinoEye

            Ahhh, the stupidity of federal vs. state law on growing marijuana. You have to wonder if the DEA and the feds have anything better to do than bust small-scale, LEGAL growers. Because it’s not like we have blood-thirsty cartels crossing the border to sling meth, heroin, cocaine and the other hard stuff, right? Or people blowing themselves and their neighbors up with homemade meth labs. Yes, busting a law-abiding citizen with a small growing operation is MUCH more important.

    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/divine_aphasia/ Constant Cat

      Taking the time to vent: I haaaaate Maritza and Flaca. Spoiled characters with humor that grates, and the show doesn’t do anything to really redeem them beyond sass.

      • P M

        I don’t know why Gloria hasn’t slapped them silly for being insufferable brats.

    • P M

      I’d love any other Kitten’s take on Daya’s character. I thought there was something a bit odd about the way her character arc has gone. She never struck me as someone who would have a baby in prison of all places, and seemed brighter than all the behaviour she’s shown in the series soIt far. Plus there’s Daya the Pregnant Harpie, which comes across as one-note. I’m disappointed, as the character showed a lot of promise at the outset.

      • oat327

        I agree I thought she’d have more sense than she wound up having. Having a baby in prison is a dumb move to begin with, but then urging her lover to confess (which would effectively end his life–jail, sex offender registry, no chance for gainful employment) is even dumber, and I can’t imagine anyone thinking that kind of “romantic gesture” would be a good thing for any of them, including the baby.

        I agree she’s been one-note this season, but I think that’s part of the problem with having essentially an entire multi-season show set in just fifteen months (Piper’s sentence)–there’s just not a lot of places for this relationship to go, considering she’ll be pregnant for another couple seasons at minimum, so they have to put up artificial problems like Daya behaving like an idiot to continue to wring drama out of it.

      • MaryMcClelland

        Hmmmm… that IS Interesting. Good point!

      • Glammie

        Ya got me. She feels guilty over setting up Mendes, but, nonetheless, since her relationship with Bennet is consensual, I find her desire to turn himself in and face his own prison sentence more than a little odd. My impression from last season, is that she was supposed to be a decent person who kind of got railroaded by circumstances, but she just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

        I’m also sort of wondering how her younger siblings are doing, since she was taking care of them after her mother was incarcerated. I think that would have been a better story instead of the pointless pregnancy melodrama.

        • P M

          Precisely. She knows how babies are made, she’s willing to give the guy a hand job, he can get protection…… what gives??

      • demidaemon

        I think much of her reactions come from the fact that she wants her child to have two parents, something she didn’t have.

    • melanie0866

      So, I am going to sound like a prudie old lady here, but the one thing that really bugs me about this show is the graphic sex scenes. I have teenage/early adult kids, and it’s uncomfortable for all of us when one of them walks in and two women are doing in it a toilet stall. It seems unnecessary and gratuitous. I think the show could be just as good (if not better) without it. Am I the only one who feels this way?

      • Teresa Wyatt

        Nope, you aren’t the only one who feels that way. My 22 yr old son would, naturally, disagree. When one reads about what really happens in women’s prisons (sex wise), we see how prettied up it is on OTNB. But hey, Hollywood happens!

    • Amanda

      I don’t normally chime in on stuff like this, but honestly in the first season, I thought Daya and Bennett’s forbidden romance was cute and charming. By the beginning of season 2, it started to change.

      I admit their arc started to drag toward the end of the second season, but that’s what happens when shit gets real. It drags. Romance doesn’t last, especially when a person is in a position of power, and the other isn’t. I know this show isn’t super realistic when it comes to women in prison, but contrary to most of the opinions on Daya and Bennett, I thought the writers handled it as well as they could with this glammed-up prison dramedy, especially with Daya starting to realize that with their conflicting positions of power, they would never have a truly equal relationship. Even though it didn’t make for riveting television, I’m glad we got to see the other side of their “romance”.