The Walking Dead: The Grove

Posted on March 17, 2014

Melissa McBride in AMC’s The Walking Dead

 

When we don’t do a review of The Walking Dead’s latest episode, we get more messages asking us why than we do comments on any actual Walking Dead posts we ever manage to put up. In other words, this post will get less comments on it than the amount of emails, tweets and posts last week that asked us if we had given up on it. Of all the shows we’ve recapped/reviewed, TWD is the only one which apparently has a large group of people dying to not talk about it. And we honestly had no intention of writing this review either, until about ten minutes ago, but we’re still watching every week, so figured we might as well try and pull our thoughts together. Without making this about us (probably way too late on that), we just haven’t been able to work up any excitement for this show, despite the fact that they’re doing some of the best work in the series right now.

But before we get to last night’s drama-fest, a word about last week’s embarrassingly bad episode with Darryl and Beth. Actually several words: It takes some seriously shitty scripting to get us to want to see Darryl dead by the end of an episode, but the entire hour seemed designed to highlight just how idiotic he and Beth really are – and how pointless this entire world is. Without getting too far into the weeds of things, what really set us off was – oddly enough – Beth’s golf shirt. We’re costume-oriented. Sue us. But costuming is important, dammit.

Everyone walks around this world in filthy, ragged clothes all the time; this world that is pretty much stocked to the rafters with en endless supply of clothing. It’s always been one of those details that annoyed the shit out of us because it makes no logical sense for everyone to be walking around in filthy clothing, risking all kinds of infections and skin diseases in the Georgia heat. They can’t take many showers, but there’s no reason any of them can’t change their clothes.The lack of costuming also annoys us from a film-making perspective because you have an opportunity to put the characters in an endless array of ironic costumes, from goofy t-shirts to janitor’s overalls to Christmas sweaters.  In the books, when they moved into the prison, everyone started wearing the orange prison overalls because there were so many on hand and they were clean. Ironic costuming that actually made story sense. A group of people trying desperately to survive, all dressed like prisoners. That would’ve looked awesome onscreen; especially if you gave each character a little twist, like Darryl cutting off the sleeves or Beth cutting the pants into shorts. Sure, the grey-brown palette that literally EVERYONE in the cast sports drives home a message of hopelessness, but after awhile it just makes everyone look a little emo. So when Beth finally demonstrated common sense and realized she was in a store with racks of clothing just waiting to be taken, we thought, “FINALLY,” as she put on a clean shirt – which then got drenched in zombie blood mere minutes later. We threw up our hands. The message was loud and clear: There’s no point in putting on a clean shirt. There’s no hope in this world. Well that’s kinda horseshit, because Beth went weeks in a filthy outfit that never got drenched in blood, but the minute she put on something clean…

Look. We know we shouldn’t obsess over things like this, but costuming, as we hope we’ve established by now, is a very important way of telling the story and Beth’s drenched golf shirt pretty much summed up everything we find wrong about the way this story is being told. Don’t even get us started on the idiocy of the two of them getting drunk on moonshine alone in the woods and then burning down a cabin full of supplies just because they felt like it. Sorry, Georgia backwoods! You’re probably gonna burn down (except not) because two idiots who can’t change a shirt without screwing it up had an existential crisis!

Feh. Now you see why we don’t rush to write up a review anymore.

So you’d think we’d have hated last night’s episode for being so dark. But there’s a difference, in our minds, between “dark” and “hopeless.” “Dark” is when you put a bullet in a little girl’s head because she (in the understatement of the series) “can’t be around people anymore,” due to a dangerous and untreatable sociopathy. “Hopeless” would’ve been Carol or Tyreese figuring it wasn’t worth it anymore and putting bullets in all their heads. Or Tyreese killing Carol after her confession. But because Tyreese found it in himself to forgive Carol, and because the episode ended with the threesome heading off to sanctuary, we didn’t find Carol’s actions to be without hope. On the contrary, killing Lizzie was an act of survival on her part. Where there’s life, there’s hope. Fighting to survive is an innately optimistic act. Shooting that little girl meant Carol and Tyreese could live another day and pass Judith on to another set of caretakers before they themselves die.

So no, we didn’t object at all to last night’s darkness. If anything, it was one of the better episodes in a long time. The first half dragged a bit because neither of those little girls are good enough actresses to carry such a storyline, but once they were dead, and it was just Carol and Tyreese alone in the dark, the story came alive to us. What interests us now is if Tyreese really has forgiven her or if he’s making a strategic decision about his own survival, knowing he can’t really make it on his own with a baby.

Granted, we still feel like we’re at something of a remove from all this drama. Up until last night’s episode, we weren’t even sure what those girls’ names were and while Tyreese struggled mightily to forgive Carol for Karen’s murder, we struggled mightily to remember just who the hell she was. The show is doing cleanup on a bunch of plotlines that failed to resonate because we were all paying attention to the main characters (who keep doing nothing or keep doing the same stupid things). If we have any … wait for it … hope at all for the future of the show, it’s that they’re going to put most of the crap of the past behind them and MOVE THE F ON, which is all we’ve ever really asked for. They don’t have to set up house in the suburbs and start making babies, but we have to feel that these characters are all moving toward a goal of some sort.

Anyway, that’s where we stand now. We’re just glad they’ve managed to keep the Governor dead.

 

[Photo Credit: Gene Page/AMC]

    • ben hilton

      Damn, you guys sound really bitter about not receiving many comments on these posts. Hope this helps!

    • otterbird

      I hate-watch “The Walking Dead” every week, but I really liked last night’s episode. I follow the comics, too, and the sharp left turn the character of Carol took on this show from her pen-and-ink counterpart is great. Huge props to Melissa McBride, who is such a lovely actress on the show. Her face is a study in stillness, but with every thought showing in her eyes. McBride is just so good at LISTENING, and the scene where Tyreese talked about seeing Karen every night could have been incredibly dull, but the focus on McBride in the foreground made it nail biting. (this is not a knock on Chad Coleman, whose work I like a lot in the show. I loved him in “The Wire,” too). But who would have thought the mousy, dowdy (by TV standards) older (again, by TV standards) female character would have turned out to be one of the most interesting on the show? In the hands of a lesser actor, I don’t think it would have happened.

      Please, Walking Dead writers, don’t screw this one up. You’ve got a great character here.

      And yeah, I hated last week’s episode, too. My ovaries have locked their doors against Daryl, never to be opened again. Honestly, it was the way over-the-top scene down in the basement, with the rolling tables and the gajillion zombies. Srsly? Badass shark jumped.

      • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

        I really adore Melissa McBride. I love how far Carol has progressed.. when you go back and watch the first episodes which I did recently, Carol We First Saw is so stark a contrast to the Now Carol.. it is almost unbelievable that any character could make that kind of progress but somehow Melissa McBride has done this flawlessly and almost without our noticing it..

        • Raspberry2012

          I do hope more than anything, more than any other character, that the writers realize what a chunk of gold they have with Carol, and especially in the hands of Melissa McBride. Please writers and producers, don’t fuck this up!

          • otterbird

            My husband said he would be quite content if Rick died and Carol became the show’s lead. I doubt we’ll be that lucky.

            • editrixie

              Yeah, God forbid the white mens aren’t the lead characters. Carol being the lead would be seriously awesome.

            • Eric Stott

              If there’s a group split I vote for Carol to lead one – with Michone as her enforcer.

          • CT14

            I have no faith in these writers.

            The reason they split Carol and Daryl up is too many people were shipping them. They stuck Daryl with Beth to remind the audience that only young hot things are acceptable partners. Carol has only been allowed to develop because the writers weren’t paying attention and she was acting the hell out of whatever meager parts she was given.

            • gefeylich

              Thank you for writing this – it is so obvious now.

              I love Melissa McBride and glad the writers/producers ignored her until her great acting ability forced them to beef up her character (they let us suffer for YEARS with the idiotic Lori, but have only now seen McBride’s worth), but I have to say – when I watched the Veronica Mars movie today and Jamie Lee Curtis showed up, I thought reflexively, “Hey! It’s Carol!”

        • Saturnine

          I agree. It’s funny how TWD’s Carol and DA’s Edith were my *least* favorites when each show premiered; now they’re my favorites on each series. I guess that’s what they mean by “range.”

          • Raspberry2012

            It just goes to show, whenever you hear fans’ rousing battle cry of “Kill him/her off!” about a seemingly useless character on a show, you never know how they can turn that character around a couple of seasons later!

            • The Critiquette

              Disagree…still glad they killed off Andrea. :P

            • Raspberry2012

              Okay, well, Andrea being the one exception to THAT rule!

            • Lucía Gavello

              And Lori… that one was WAY overdue.

    • hugatreemom

      Why didn’t anyone stop and think about why those corpses in the funeral home/ mortuary hadn’t turned? That one looked like it had only half turned, does embalming stop the zombiefication process? Why does no one want to start looking for way to stop this from spreading???

      • sienna elm

        Those bodies had turned, you can see the bullet-holes in the heads if you look close enough, but they used mortician’s make-up to somewhat cover it. They were trying to give them a proper burial (or as proper as you can get in these times).

      • MilaXX

        It was completely turned. Who ever had set the house up was using makeup to cover the face. It was fully turned but only half made up. If you notice at one point Darryl wipes some off one of them.

    • MinnieO

      I really missed your TWD recap last week, please don’t stop (even though admittedly I don’t comment that much!). However, while we are getting annoying issues about the show off of our chest, can anyone explain to me why ON EARTH do these people continue to walk along, set up camps and try to sleep under the stars without making use of a major defense tool that all should know about by now — the de-armed, de-jawed zombies?!! I mean if Michonne can walk along undetected in a PACK of the these things with her zombie pets, shouldn’t every character have one in tow while they are out foraging for food and water, walking along the tracks, etc. Come on people!

      Also, I love me some Darryl but this sexual tension or growing love or whatever between him and Beth creeps me out. How old is she? Didn’t she and Carl have a little puppy love thing going at some point? I know the zombie apocalypse will of course mean many strange bedfellows and an older man with a younger woman certainly isn’t anything earth-shattering, but I feel that Beth’s character has always been very childlike so to now set up a romance between her and the defacto sex symbol of the series has been unsettling to watch…I guess perhaps that is the point.

      • MilaXX

        My best guest is Beth is 18 ish. Carl is maybe 14. When they first arrived at the prison Carl wanted to bunk with Beth. I think it was a nod towards acknowledging his teen aged hormones. I don’t think it was ever mutual.

        • lvogt

          It’s hard to believe because she looks so young but Emily Kinney who plays Beth is 29 – Lauren Cohan who plays Maggie is 32. Norman Reddus is surprisingly older than he looks at 45.

          • MilaXX

            I know how old they are in real life. I was talking about the age of her character.

        • Heather

          I was thinking Beth was about 19 when they got to the farm (guess Maggie was about 25-26)–I’m a little hazy on the timeline on the show, but I guess she would be about 22 now. I think Daryl is around 33-34?

          • lynde1038

            It has only been about 14 months since they left the farm. I’m pretty sure we learned Beth was 17 somewhere back in S2, so Mila is right that she should be about 18-ish now.

            Carl is a little trickier though because Chandler Riggs is aging in real time more obviously than the others. He started out as roughly 10 years old, and now looks 14-ish. So basically, Carl has gone from 10 to 14 in about 16 months. I guess we’re just supposed to treat the character like he’s roughly the same age as the actor, and hand wave the rapid aging as the effect of the ZA. :)

            • Heather

              I’ve been trying to use Baby Judith as a rough time marker. But I am also terrible at telling the age of kids, so not working out all that well. I was thinking she was 12-18 months and there was about 6 months between seasons 2 and 3, so I was thinking we were 1.5-2 years post farm. I think we are at 2.5-3 years post ZA?

              I’m not grossed out by the idea of Beth and Daryl getting together, but I’m not sure that’s the direction the show is going. He definitely cares for her.

            • lynde1038

              She’s only about 7 months old, and it has only been about 16 – 17 months since the global outbreak. There were about 7 months between S2/S3, and roughly another 6 months between S3/S4. But the seasons themselves cover these ridiculously short periods of time — much less time than it takes to air them — so it ends up feeling like it has been longer. For instance, the entire first half of this season covered about 5 days (from outbreak to exodus).

              The overall passage of time hasn’t been as clear since the prison exodus, and we are getting some overlapping with the various stories. But we’ve probably only seen about 1 to 2 weeks since then, at most. Maybe they’ll clue us in a little better in the next couple episodes.

            • Heather

              didn’t she talk in a previous episode? Not a sentence but a few words?
              I think the creators like it vague

            • lynde1038

              Yeah, they certainly seem to love vagueness at times. But I think at least one or two of them came out before S4 started and said that about 6 months had passed in the gap between S3/S4. S3 covered roughly 2 weeks after Judith’s birth.

              I don’t remember her talking, but maybe I’m just not remembering well. I remember her making noise and banging some cups together, but not talking necessarily. The key indicator for me is that she doesn’t appear to be crawling yet. She seems to mostly stay put when they put her down somewhere. She’s probably right at the cusp of that milestone. Just what they need, right? :)

            • Heather

              I am guessing that IRL Shane’s Baby would end up with some serious developmental delays given her very rough upbringing (they have to be running out of formula by now…). For now she’s just a prop/symbol, but I can’t imagine her prospects for normal development are very good.

            • MilaXX

              The house they found used to have kids. That’s why there was a crib to put Judith in. I’m assuming the also took whatever babyfood and clothes were there as well.

            • MilaXX

              I don’t remember Judith ever doing anything more than babble or cry.

          • MilaXX

            Maggie was 16 when they got to the farm. It’s been 18 months -2 years since.
            I have no idea how close to Norman Reedus’s age Darryl is supposed to be. Norman is 45. Darryl had to be at least over 35.

            • jeeplibby02

              Is he really? He appears to be about 30. Good genes!

      • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

        I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a reason we are seeing this strong bond between Darryl and Beth and it has to do with the guys he has just met up with.. knowing what they think of women from what we overheard while Rick was hiding from them in the house.. can you imagine what they would do to Beth if they found her? It would not be pretty. And it would be so cliched and idiotic writing and all the things we all hate about teevee shows, but I can’t help but feel this is where they are going.. all I can say is.. DO.NOT.WANT.

        • jeeplibby02

          Are we sure they haven’t found her? I’m thinking that after they abducted her in the car, they stashed her somewhere, and then doubled back on foot to apprehend Daryl.

      • Fisher&SonsFuneralHome

        I think if anything, its a brother sister relationship (I hope). I’m holding out for him and carol to be an item.

        • MilaXX

          I think the show is definitely going to explore a romantic Darryl/Beth relationship. Personally I think it’s kind of gross and I also think it’s a bad pairing of 2 so-so actors. Reedus plays better against a stronger actor and Emily ain’t it.

          • Mismarker

            Let the record show, I am NOT on board for a Daryl/Beth love fest. I don’t mind if everyone gets paired up romantically/sexually eventually because those types of relationships are a big part of the comic but, Daryl and Beth?? Please, God, no. I’m convinced they would have kissed last episode if the walkers hadn’t shown up and Beth hadn’t been abducted. So, while that whole basement morgue head stabbing party with Daryl vs. 100 walkers was a little over the top, if it kept him from going kissy face with Beth, I can overlook it.

            • Eric Stott

              To me it would have too much of an EWWW factor

      • AthenaJ

        Agreed, Beth is still very young in a lot of ways and the idea of her and Daryl getting romantic just squicks me out. I visibly cringed when he carried her into the kitchen in the episode before last and they were giggling… it was like a honeymoon in the ZA. I’m also ticked that the writers couldn’t have Daryl get with a strong adult woman, but of course they gave him ‘romantic tension’ with the pretty blond teenager who is pretty much is in the role of the damsel in distress.

      • Scoobydrew

        The thing that annoys me is that no one has thought to build a tree house – and that there are no hunting blinds in the trees. I live in the south, they are everywhere. I don’t think zombies can climb.

    • lexilexi

      We say the same thing at our house … many times they are at places with water… WHY don’t they take a shower (Darryl… that hair) … and change clothes? I guess clean freshly shampooed and dressed survivors of a zombie apocalypse would look just plain weird.

      And Carol. What an actress.. What a character… I’m longing for the day she and Michonne are in charge.

    • otterbird

      Thanks for pointing out the golf shirt moment from last week. It made me crazy, too, as does the lack of changes of clothing in a nation filled to the brims with it. And the getting drunk in the middle of a zombie apocalypse and burning down a shack in the woods because it reminds Daryl of his redneck past. You want to shed your redneck past, Daryl? Ditch the leather vest.

      And speaking of wardrobe, what’s up with Rosita’s bare midriff? It’s GEORGIA. How is her abdomen not one big map of mosquito bites?

      • osu86

        What about whats her name who keeps wearing wool sweaters? Literally every other cast member on this show is wearing shorts and tank tops and she’s wearing jeans, boots and a huge sweater. TOO HOT!

        • otterbird

          Maybe all the stress from the Zombie Apocalypse has caused her to have an eating disorder and she’s trying to hide it from everyone. I mean, I read “The Best Little Girl in the World.” Substitute “ballet” for “zombies” and there you go.

      • MasterandServant

        In the comic, Rosita dressed similarly to this…

        • otterbird

          I know- I read the comic. But things that I can buy in a comic become less plausible to me in a television series where there’s an actual person wearing the outfit. It’s a problem I have with the new trio, in fact – they costumed and cast them so similarly to the comic versions that they’re a bit, well, comical. My husband refers to the one as “Cosplay Abraham.”

        • MilaXX

          But that only makes sense in the comic. This is definitely a case where trying too hard to imitate the comic looks stupid because you immediately wonder about bugs not to mention having to many exposed body parts in a time where a bite is fatal.

      • marlie

        I actually don’t pay too much attention to the clothes, but I did notice that Carol’s jacket was threadbare and holey. I know they don’t have time to shop around for new clothes, but you’d think that she’d at least scavenge a new jacket or something if they were spending several days in this relatively safe house.

        • The Critiquette

          I noticed Carol had time to find the most awesome boots she could possibly have. Totally smart and functional, and a little bit sexy too.

          I blame the lack of wardrobe changes at this point on the need to travel light. They can’t be burdened with a lot of baggage, right? And most of them have been in the woods, not in cities or towns. Remember that Michonne did recently put on a clean shirt, when given the opportunity.

          • marlie

            That’s what I meant about Carol. She and Tyreese and the girls were in this house for two, three days? She couldn’t rummage around for a new jacket while they were there? I totally get that they need to travel light and only with the necessities, but they actually had the time to look for new stuff (& dump the old stuff) and they didn’t seem to take it.

        • Eric Stott

          It bothers me with the zombies too- you’d think that some of them would have died wearing bright synthetics, but everything they wear not only has no color but appears to have NEVER had color.

          • Mismarker

            In the first couple of seasons, the zombies were more individual and colorful. The current more subdued, drab zombie look is to bring forth the idea of a herd with a singular “mind”.

            • Eric Stott

              I suppose it’s also the vision of the artist- his books are in B/W but the covers have a similarly restricted pallet.

    • MilaXX

      What interests us now is if Tyreese really has forgiven her or if he’s making a strategic decision about his own survival, knowing he can’t really make it on his own with a baby.

      I don’t have much more to add because I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said. However it never occurred to me to think Tyreese hadn’t forgiven Carol. I think it was because he saw Carol put down Lizzie knowing she cared so much for those kids that helped him. He knew how much she loved those girls. And yet she killed Lizzie when they realized Lizzie would be too much of a threat to other humans. Knowing that Karen wasn’t murdered of malice but because Carol made what was a tough choice to try and preserve as much of the group as possible might have eased his anger a little.

      • marlie

        I got the impression that Tyreese forgave Carol because he saw that she was able to make the tough decisions – and carry them out – in order to keep as many people as possible safe. I think that he finally gets that it isn’t personal; it’s survival.

        • Raspberry2012

          I agree. They made the point on The Talking Dead that if Carol had confessed earlier, during the scene when Tyrese was talking about the dreams he has about Karen, it might have turned out very different – he might have killed her. But I think the fact that he himself took part in Lizzie’s death – the fact that he agreed to it; it was unspoken, but he looked in Carol’s eyes and clearly understood when she said, “She can’t be around other people anymore” – means he too was now complicit in an act of killing someone because it was necessary. Once he saw that Lizzie had to die, Carol’s confession then became easier for him to understand why she did it. He had to take part in such an act himself in order to understand why she’d made that tough decision earlier with Karen and David.

          Tough episode, for sure. And tougher because, of course, Lizzie’s a little girl. If she’d been an adult, I don’t think it would have been nearly as heartbreaking. But it was clear she wasn’t getting it, she wasn’t able to adapt to this new world. One of the points that Melissa McBride made last night on “The Talking Dead” was that when she took Lizzie out to the grove, and Lizzie’s sobbing “I’m sorry, you’re mad at me”, it’s because she thinks Carol is angry at her for Lizzie pointing the gun at her earlier – she just didn’t GET that no, it’s not because of that – it’s because she murdered her sister, and flat out said that she was planning on murdering Judith just as they got back. She wasn’t going to be rehabilitated – she was the ultimate lost cause, no matter how little and cute she was.

          • TropiCarla

            I agree about the timing of Carol’s confession. If she were going to confess, she picked the perfect time. Even though Tyreese got the crazy eyes going, he had just condoned her execution of Lizzie, so he was in a much better position to contextualize Carol’s killing Karen. I personally thought it was very big and risky of her to confess at all. I still question the authenticity of his forgiveness, but time will tell.

            • Raspberry2012

              Given how emotional Tyrese seems to be (from violently losing his temper with Daryl to a complete emotional shut down during the supply run earlier in the season), I don’t think he has it in him to fake Carol out. I don’t think it’ll be a case of him just pretending to forgive her and then trying to kill her later. I’d say once he got the assurance that Karen didn’t suffer, and with his part in Lizzie’s murder making him understand Carol’s actions a bit better, I believe his forgiveness is genuine. I think last night’s episode was a symbol of “things we need to do within ourselves in order to move forward.” That included the elimination of Lizzie, and to another extent, Mika too. But it also meant that Carol needed to move forward so that she didn’t have this horrible secret hanging over her head with him. And it meant that Tyrese needed to move forward by understanding why she did it. And that was all part of him forgiving her. That’s how I saw it.

            • CT14

              It also shows how Rick was wrong AGAIN.

              Carol was on the council, and while she should have talked about it first, she had more authority than Rick to do what she did.

              Tyreese coped.

              I can’t wait to see Rick’s face when Carol and Tyreese show up. I can just see him hunkering sideways and whispering “Carol! Tyreese HAS. TO. KNOW. I’m going to tell him about Karen and David, because you can’t join us in Terminus, even though you saved my baby.”

              “He already knows, Rick. I wouldn’t try to keep me out, but you can return my watch.”

          • jeeplibby02

            The fact that Tyreese’s relationship with Karen occurred off-screen, between seasons makes it very difficulty for me to believe that he cared enough to kill someone over her. Although I thought the scene was beautifully acted, particularly by Melissa McBride, I didn’t expect the outcome to be anything other than it was.

            • Raspberry2012

              Well, not between seasons – between the mid-season breaks, but I get what you’re saying. However, the fans at TWoP figured out that for the timeline of the show, it’s only been about a week or so since Karen & David were killed, Then the attack on the prison (don’t forget, Glenn was still sick with flu symptoms when he boarded the bus, that’s why he wasn’t out there fighting – they still had several people sick with the super flu, so the flu and the attack were all happening at the same time), and then everyone scattered. Timeline-wise, they’ve only been out on the road a few days. So even though it seems like forever to us, Tyrese just lost her about a week ago in show-time.

            • Mismarker

              In show time, 6 or 7 months elapsed between the end of season 3 and the beginning of season 4. Assuming Karen and Tyreese started something up shortly after she arrived with the Woodbury group, they were together for half a year. We didn’t see much of them together but Chad Coleman’s performance totally sold me on the fact that he loved her. That’s all I need. I get it.

              I also wasn’t expecting any other outcome from that confession but I did appreciate Tyreese’s “I can forgive but I will never forget”. It’s not rainbows and kittens between these two now (a shared desire to keep Judith safe is perhaps the only reason they leave that house together) but it would be interesting to see a friendship develop at some point.

          • CT14

            It took so much out of Carol to lose Mika and kill Lizzie. She really didn’t care anymore if she lived or died, so that was another reason she confessed.

            Tyreese forgiving her gives them BOTH a chance to heal, as much as possible, in the ZA.

      • Isabel

        Lizzie – serial killer in the making. All the SKs in today’s world start by killing cats and dogs. Since there were no pets at the prison, she used a rabbit. Who knows what she did at Woodbury? Didn’t her mom die early on?

      • jen_vasm

        Tyrese has been a character that is inherently gentle and consciously holds onto his ability to love and nurture, often to his own peril. In this way, he is similar to Herschel, but with more of a temper. I think he knows he is not the type of guy who has natural survival skills in the ZA (heck, those little girls saved him), and that might have figured a bit into his decision to forgive Carol, but I do believe he mainly did so because of his nature underscored by his understanding of the fact that Lizzie had to be killed and seeing Carol’s grief over having to do it. I think Carol was ready to die at Tyrese’s hand, because of her guilt over his sadness over Karen’s death (a little) and despair over the girls plus Sophia (a lot).
        That said, Tyrese better toughen up. He is only less of a liability that Judith because she can’t walk. Plus, the whole semi-nieve/gentle giant thing is borderline annoying.

      • CT14

        Tyreese also didn’t kill Lizzie: he let Carol do it.

        Being on the other side of it taught him something.

    • paintedfish

      I wholeheartedly agree about the cleaning yourself up. Every time someone gets to a “safe” house, I yell at them to wash up. Maybe the horrible stink prevents the zombies from finding them? And yeah, that whole story of Beth needing a drink, ugh. Last night’s made up for that one, I did love the opening scene out the window of Lizzie playing with her pet. Does anyone think that the fire was the burning cabin? It seems that they are all crossing paths but just missing each other, if that’s true then would anyone hear the distant gun shots? It really seems that these guys are just bumbling around in a park sized woods.

      • MilaXX

        I definitely get the sense that the cabin was the burning moonshine cabin and the walkers were the ones that walked through the fire hence the reason some were partially burnt.

        • Mismarker

          Definitely. I’m enjoying the timeline mix ups. After last week’s episode, I was convinced that Daryl was actually with the marauder group when they ransacked the Rick/Carl/Michonne house. I was wrong, but it was fun to think about for a minute!

          • MilaXX

            I’m just happy to see the show attempting to have some semblance of continuity. Even if it was super convenient having them find a cabin that had small children meant they could stock up on food and fresh clothing for Judith.

      • Isabel

        Even though the entire Beth/Daryl episode was annoying, I can understand why she needed the drink. She’s missed all the teenage milestones – prom, football games, dates, clubs, etc. She wants to do something that an older teen would have done – sneak out for drinks. I bet that Beth sneaked out a few times when she was in high school.

      • editrixie

        This is something that I’m so frustrated about — my god, HOW did they get so badly separated from each other? I mean, none of them got that far! Why did none of them ever have maps and compasses? Any of the towns they’d been in, they could have picked those up. And while of course they wouldn’t have had them on them at the beginning of the melee with the Gov, they could have/should have been familiar with the roads and woods around the prison. I just…there’s no earthly reason for them all to have been that hugely far apart and unable to find each other. None. I find it so maddening. That said, last night’s ep actually made me tear up at the end, and I never ever thought I’d say that about WD.

        • jeeplibby02

          I gave up wondering why they seem to have no idea where they are when it took them pretty much all of Judith’s gestation to find the prison we saw in the not-too-distant distance at the end of Season 2, despite the fact that Rick was a sheriff’s deputy in that part of the state, and should have known it was there.

          • Mismarker

            I may be misremembering this but I got the impression that they had run across the prison before and believed clearing it out would be too much of a challenge. They found digs elsewhere (a storage facility?) until it fell apart and that’s where we met up with them again on the run at the beginning of season 3. Desperate and with Lori’s baby on the way, the prison then seemed worth the challenge.

    • MsALVA

      My theory since last season had always been that it was Lizzie who killed Karen and Shawn (I think that was his name?), and that Carol was covering up for her. So Carol knew they had a little sociopath among them but as a mother of a girl herself, she felt she had to protect her somehow. Which made last night’s “sacrifice” doubly painful.

      • MilaXX

        Karen & David. That shows why they needed the story telling they are doing on these back 8 eps. I can barely recall what Karen & David look like, and I really only care about them because of how the storyline is related to Tyreese. If I think hard I can kinda remember what Karen looks like, but David? Couldn’t describe him if my life depended on it.

        • lynde1038

          We never met David as anything other than a charred corpse. Karen mentioned “David from the Decatur group” as a fellow symptom sufferer when she first started coughing, but we never saw him. Kind of a reverse of the usual background redshirt, who have faces but no names. He got a name, but no face.

      • Eric Stott

        I think that Carol really did kill them- If Lizzie had killed them she’d have no reason to cover for her now.

        • Raspberry2012

          Exactly. Once Lizzie was dead, there was no reason to cover for her. No reason to put herself in further danger in case Tyrese *wasn’t* going to be as forgiving.

          • Eric Stott

            Carol probably also felt that if she was going to die, this would be a good time.

      • tereliz

        I thought that for a minute, but it was clear from this episode, just as Carol said, that Lizzy wouldn’t have killed them, she would have let them turn. Or killed them and let them come back as walkers, not burned them. She was suffering from some kind of delusion that the change was good, a purification, a metamorphosis that wasn’t the end. Not the death and decomposition and endless hunger her little sister rightly saw.

      • lynde1038

        I’m very relieved that they stuck to having the crime be Carol’s. I think half the tension in the episode for me came from fear that they *would* turn this into Carol covering for Lizzie. It just works so much better as a decision that Carol made and an action she took, especially since it led to that wonderful confession and forgiveness scene. I’m very pleased with the way they developed and played out that storyline. And Melissa McBride was really fantastic throughout this episode.

    • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

      I so, SO agree with you about the costuming. Unless the zombie apocalypse also coincided with EXPLODING ALL THE MALLS EVER there is no reason these people have to wear the same clothes all the time.

      And hello, TWD powers that be, you took money from Hyundai so they could drive around a car that was the most insane colour (mint green) for a Zombie Apocalypse and yet that car always looked like it just got washed (except for one or two times when it got washed in zombie blood as a part of the plot line) and you can’t take a dime from Costco or Macys or someone with a name brand store somewhere nearby and have the cast raid the store to get new outfits? SRSLY? We can’t have a dressing room MONTAGE to a happy cheery piece of music that you are paid to play?

      Costco have a range of products specifically designed to deal with this exact situation – they have an entire section on their website called emergency kits & supplies, and I bet they would give you some MONEYS for your LOW BUDGET if you spoke to them about filming an episode in one of their stores.

      If this were my zombie apocalypse, you better believe one of my first stops is the store, where I will put on ALL THE THINGS and take the rest of the things I can’t put on out to my Spotlessly Clean Mint Green Hyundai because it has ample storage space. I would not wear the same outfit twice, except for some kickass and yet superbly comfortable boots (I think Maggie got a boot upgrade recently) and if zombie blood got on me, I would GET CHANGED.

      • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

        BTW My first choice for Zombie Apocalypse boots would have to be a pair of those Aquatalia boots that Kate Middleton levitated in while pregnant and playing hockey. I’d actually go with that whole outfit but I am not sure how easy that Mcqueen coat would be to find here in Australia at the best of times, let alone once the internet goes dead and there is no magic postal service.

        All those hankering for a STYLISH zombie apocalypse, if you can raid all the stores and wear all the things, price tags be damned, what you gonna put on, what is going in the rear of your mint green Hyundai?

      • girliecue

        Great rant! When the Apocalypse approaches, I want you as a shopping buddy.

        • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

          Totally! We’ll do the malls, and then move into the nearest Costco. :)

          • The Critiquette

            Living at Costco. Pretty secure structure. Almost fortress-like, and filled with tons of supplies — even if raiders took a lot, early on, there would still be things like furniture and some kinds of food. After you clear the initial zombies and figure out how to operate the sliding glass doors without power…pretty much everything you need. Although I guess it would be pretty dark without power or windows, light source would be a relatively small problem to solve…

    • osu86

      While I enjoyed Carol’s badassery this episode, I’m still so frustrated by the inability of the plot to go anywhere. Yes, the end of this episode caught me by surprise, but in all, I just didn’t care. The entire episode was focused on the same existential issue we’ve dealt with before: Do the walkers have souls? Should we try and save them? etc. etc. etc. We already went there with Hershel and the farm. And frankly, I don’t care about this question. The writers certainly think it’s interesting, but at this point, I (and I’m assuming most viewers) are of the mindset – if you see a walker, you can kill it, we don’t care! In fact, we expect you too! This fake moral conundrum is just nonsensical to me in face of all the other adversity the cast faces.

      At the end of the day, if I’m going to keep watching into next season, they have got to start world building and give us some goals or some type of mission so that we’re watching something besides our merry cast bumble around BFE Georgia.

      • Angela_the_Librarian

        For me I didn’t think this was a re-hash of the moral quandary over killing zombies (though that scene with Tyreese not killing the walker on the train tracks was annoying), but the moral quandary of what to do when someone has clearly lost their mind and is a danger to others. There are no more prisons or mental institutions. I was disturbed thinking about what I would have done in Carol and Tyreese’s position, especially in dealing with an ill child.

        • VermillionSky

          This is what I think, too, but not just about the moral quandary of what to do when somebody is a danger to others, but when a child, one whom you love and have a responsibility to protect, is a danger to others. It’s a callback for Carol to Sophia coming out of the barn. At that time, she wanted to go to her but Darryl held her back while Rick put Sophia down. Now, she not only has to put down sophia 2.0 herself, but she has to outright kill her second adopted daughter to protect the third (and herself and Tyreese.. I mean, could you ever sleep with her around?). It shows how far her character has progressed. I also think her confession to Tyreese was a suicide attempt. She gave him the gun and told him to do what he had to do and was accepting of it because the events of the day were almost too much for her to bear. In the end, though, Tyreese didn’t give her what she wanted, and she accepted that.

          • MilaXX

            I don’t think her confession to Tyreese was a suicide attempt. I think she knew she had to come clean and was prepared to face the consequences. I also got the impression that she was comfortable doing that because she knew deep down that Tyreese was now in a position to understand her actions.

            • Raspberry2012

              Precisely. Carol HAS hope – her confession wasn’t a suicide attempt. She knew there was a chance he *might* kill her, and she was prepared to face that possibility. But she wasn’t *hoping* he’d murder her, no. And Mila is exactly right – her timing made all the difference, because now Tyrese understood the hard decisions that sometimes have to be made in taking out a member of your own group, only when necessary.

            • Isabel

              Were Karen and David killed because they were coming down with zombie flu and there was no more medicine left?
              I forget.

            • Raspberry2012

              No, they were both already sick with it, and no medicine had been found yet. Now, one of the things they never showed us THEN, but that was explained last night during Carol’s confession was that she killed them because they were too far gone. Karen couldn’t walk, couldn’t open her eyes, etc. They were two of the ones who were worse off, so that’s why she did it. Or that could have been Melissa McBride explaining it on The Talking Dead, I forget which. But the example they used was, “It’s not like Karen was sitting up, sniffling, and working on a crossword puzzle” – she’s apparently really far gone. Which, hey, thanks for not ever showing us that, Show! We had to wait till last night to find that out, that the murder wasn’t more of a mercy killing than Carol making the decision about someone who probably had more of a chance.

            • MilaXX

              I’m glad she said that because in my mind the rest of the group didn’t think they would survive the night but were too afraid to kill them even if it meant possibly stopping the virus from spreading. Carol stepped up and “did what had to be done”.

          • Saturnine

            Interesting take re: suicide by confession. On Talking Dead afterward, I thought I heard MMcB say she wouldn’t put it past Carol to jump across the table if Tyrese headed in that direction. So, self-preservation ’til the end for our dear Carol.

    • Angela_the_Librarian

      I thought last night’s episode was one of the best of the season thus far. I was genuinely shocked when they returned to find the younger sister murdered. My husband and I thought that they were going to perhaps just abandon Lizzie, but I suppose Carol felt that she had to take responsibility. Though, as soon as they started talking about staying at the cabin and how it was “safe” I became frustrated with just how little they have all learned so far. Yes, I understand that they were tired, but assuming that any one place is safe (without fortifications and more people) was just a preposterous thing for Tyreese or Carol to vocalize or think (especially since they are probably the most even-minded people of the group). Oh, and why did the cabin have gas for the stove? A propane tank?

      The clothes thing bothers me too to a certain extent. I don’t think it would be realistic to carry around a lot of clothes while on the run (carrying potable water and food is more important), but yes, anytime they go by a store or mall you would think they would change clothes and grab some lightweight things to carry. I shudder to think of the the state of their undergarments :-p

      • MilaXX

        What struck me about the cabin was that Tyreese’s words weirdly echoed Rick’s when they first arrived at the prison. “We can stay here, we can live here.” and his sentiments seemed similar to Rick in his farmer state of mind. He just wanted to pretend things were okay. Thankfully by the end of the episode Tyreese realized he couldn’t pretend.

        • VermillionSky

          I can cut Tyreese some slack because he wasn’t at the epic fail farm. Carol should know better. I still love her, though.

          • MilaXX

            I wasn’t dissing Tyreese, just noticing the similarities. When Tyreese said that he was tired and weary. Much like Rick during is farmer stage, Tyreese just wanted to check out for a bit. By the end of the episode he realized that wasn’t a realistic option.

            • marlie

              I thought that too… Tyreese sitting back in the “dad” chair, while Carol and the girls played and talked elsewhere. I think he wanted to just have the illusion of a “normal” family life even if it was just for a little while.

      • Mismarker

        Cabin must have had either a gas well or propane tank.

      • editrixie

        Speaking of clothes and undergarments…something that continues to rankle me, and the TLo rant about the clothes reminds me of, is that there are all these women of childbearing age, and yet no one ever gets their period. (Waits for all the guys to run off shrieking.) This is a big deal — the only time we see anything like this addressed is when Lori asked Glenn to pick up a pregnancy test for her. This is going to make a huge difference in how the women can travel — they’re going to have to pack what available supplies they can find with them, or if they resort to old-fashioned methods, wash those rags and dry them. And every woman I’ve ever known has had to deal with leaks at some point, ruining their clothes.

        You can tell this show is run by men, and the comic was created by a man, because this never fucking comes up. It would have a huge effect on things in a post-apocalyptic world. And most women I know get serious cramps and headaches without medications to help them along; when I used to have to deal with it, I was incapacitated completely by cluster migraines at least four or five times a year, and I remember the horror of hemorrhaging before I got started on birth control pills, which literally saved my life.

        So yeah, they’re going to be carrying more in their packs than the average guy, yet of course, that doesn’t exist in this man-created world. They’re going to need extra clothes and undergarments. That’s just the way of it.

        • Mismarker

          I’ve also wondered about this mostly in a “how would I deal with this” kind of way. But the last thing I want to see is any screen time devoted to how in the world these fierce ladies manage to staunch their flow. As malnourished as they would be under these circumstances, the women may not even be having regular periods. We also don’t see people pooping in the woods and wiping with leaves or their hand. This is minutiae that needn’t be covered.

          • editrixie

            Well, no, I don’t want to see the minutiae, but the fact that it’s never acknowledged as something that has to be dealt with is a whole other thing. Or that they can travel without any kind of extra clothes or supplies.

            • Mismarker

              My original comment was a bit harsh and I apologize. For better or worse, this is perhaps not the type of world building the writers are interested in pursuing. I’ve chosen to believe the ladies figured this out months ago and not knowing how they are dealing with their bodily functions does not lessen my enjoyment of the show. Debilitating cramps and migraines and other menstrual issues suck but I don’t want to see any of our female protagonists ever being laid low by their monthlies! As far as leaks go, I would just tell people I sat in zombie goo. : )

        • Meghan

          Maybe they’re all using the Diva Cup.

          • editrixie

            I know, I was wondering the same thing — it takes a zombie apocalypse to make women discover the diva cup!

    • BayTampaBay

      I have been watching this series for one reason only…THE MALL EPISODE. I want to see all the dudes go into some mall like say Phipps Plaza in Atlanta and find zombies wearing Chanel, Hugo Boss and Ralph Lauren Black Label. They mow down the fashion walking zombies and cart out all the loot they can 2.55 bags…large Rickey Bags…impeccably tailored suits for the men with ostrich skin boots and loafers…..the complete Chanel Precision Skin Line and all those Ralph Lauren Gowns gown shown in The Ralph Lauren advertisements before and after the weekly Masterpiece Theatre presentation. This would be a killer episode!

      .

      • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

        I love this idea! :)

      • MinnieO

        Yes please!!

        • Grumpy Girl

          As great as that would be to see, and as much as it sounds like a normal thought . . . I have to wonder if that kind of looting happened earlier on, and that many of these places are Zombiefied now?

          • Raspberry2012

            That’s what I was thinking. While I get TLo’s and everyone elses’ point, we’ve seen our survivors barely escape with their lives by just going after bare necessities like food, water, medicine, baby formula, etc. A lot of these places have already been looted, plus many of the stores still seem to have hidden walkers hiding out. My guess is that stopping to hunt around for some clean clothes hasn’t been as easy as it sounds. I think a lot of the clothes may have been looted, and if they haven’t been, they need to get what they need and get out since every place they go has a bunch of walkers that tend to go after them, many times before they can even get the crucial items.

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              Almost every main character has spent a night inside a furnished house in the past few episodes. Not one of them opened a drawer to look for underwear or change their shirt. That’s weird. You don’t have to “hunt” for clean clothes. They’re literally all around them.

            • Raspberry2012

              I’m just sayin’.

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              I know. Not snapping at you or anything. I just think the show has given them ample opportunity to change their clothes with little to no effort. That they don’t speaks to poor world-building on the writers’ parts.

            • Raspberry2012

              Oh, it’s okay, I know you weren’t snapping at me! :-) And for the record, I had a similar reaction to poor Beth’s new clean shirt. She had it on for about a hot minute, it gets totally splattered with blood, and from my sofa, I just threw my hands up in the air and went, “Are you fucking kidding me?”

            • Mismarker

              Seeing these people consistently clean and somewhat put together could possibly screw with the dusty, bloody, worn-by-nature aesthetic of the show laid out in the opening credits. Rosita’s appearance a few episodes back was jarring to some not only because her outfit seemed impractical in the environment but because she looked too “clean”. I cannot remember every single outfit change, but in the past few episodes alone we’ve seen MIchonne in a new shirt, Rick in a new jacket, T-shirt, and jeans (the same outfit he wears in the comic) after escaping the house, and Beth in a new shirt and cardigan. That we don’t see this happening more often speaks to the fact that it’s just not that important to the characters and when it does happen it’s like a gift on Christmas morning. It may bother some who watch, but I buy it.

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              But I’m not suggesting the characters should be “consistently clean and somewhat put together.” There’s simply no good reason for them all to be wearing filthy, worn, and in some cases torn clothing.

            • Mismarker

              When you say “all” you ignore the fact that three characters noticeably changed items of worn and dirty clothing in just the past few episodes. I am beating a dead horse, yes. And right now I’m wishing there were a less cliched way to say, “agree to disagree”. : )

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              Yeah, I think you’re being incredibly nitpicky here. The vast majority of the costumes on the show are worn, dirty, and torn. There’s a clear “look” to the show.

            • Mismarker

              Got it.

            • Keirams

              …but yet even more annoying to me is that the characters seem to all have their grimy, disgusting clothing perfectly tailored for them. Andrea, Maggie, Carol all seemed to have everything synched (is that a real word?) and tucked and tailored to be completely flattering for their feminine shape. And seriously- Maggie’s bad ass belt? I think that people would be wearing crappy ill fitting t-shirts, sweatshirts that they happened upon in someone’s house and not the fabulous Frye -style boots. But then again, it’s a show and they want the characters to still look semi- attractive. Don’t even get me started on dental hygiene….

            • CT14

              They keep finding food and the gas stove worked!

              I like the fact most of them are walking, since gasoline actually doesn’t last forever. Food spoils. Seeds go bad if you don’t plant them within a year, usually.

              I thought they had hunted the daylights out of the surrounding area, and there were several other groups of people doing the same. But there’s still untouched houses, with canned food and running water and working gas appliances.

              There’s no reason to wear filth anymore. Not that there ever really was, nor was there a reason all the women had to be doing endless laundry the first 2 seasons.

      • Isabel

        Malls are too dangerous. Too many locked up zombies. At this point, designer clothes don’t make a difference.

        • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

          WAIT, WHAT?!!!???!!?!?!?!?!

          Designer clothes *always* make a difference! :)

          • BayTampaBay

            OH PLEASE……………….One last word as I burn at the stake…………….BALENCIAGA!!!!

            • Eric Stott

              If the Zombie Apocalypse hits MY city, I’m going to die in my Brooks Brothers Suit

            • BayTampaBay

              My thoughts exactly!

      • Sobaika

        Nice! Very much like Dawn of the Dead.

      • YoungSally

        Is there still a Parisian at Phipps? I haven’t lived in Atlanta in nearly 20 years. The zombies could all wear glittery dress-up clothes…southern-style. Then go hang out at the Ritz Buckhead for tea.

        • Ginger Thomas

          It’s a Belk’s now. Still can’t get used to seeing Belk’s at Phipps Plaza.

          • YoungSally

            Man — has Phipps gone downscale? Where does Sir Elton get his Versace? Or has he abandoned Towers on the Park or whatever that condo is on P’tree Road P’tree Battle.

            • BayTampaBay

              Go there once a year. It is Belk’s flagship store and is very very nice. I think it is the only place in Atlanta that sells Lazslo.

        • Eric Stott

          Can you imagine if the Zombie Apocalypse struck the set of Ru Paul’s Drag Race? Decayed but still FIERCE zombies still reading each other for looking busted.

          • YoungSally

            The zombies wouldn’t have a chance against some of those ladies. Maybe we can have RuPaul’s ladies come to TWD when the plot is too slow and just speed things up.

    • BarniClaw

      I stopped watching somewhere around the time that the Governor didn’t get killed when he should have. I’m now mad at the show and won’t go back, the same way I won’t ever watch The Killing again [shakes fist]. But I do still read TL’s posts and I do read the BK’s insights (thank you all), just to see what’s (not) happening. Never thought about the costuming. Like so much else on this show: another wasted opportunity.

      • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

        I used to never read recaps before watching an episode, but these days I read all the recaps before sitting down to watch TWD. For some reason now I want to know what is going to happen before committing to watching the episode. I don’t think I will ever stop watching.. though I was feeling like I might quit with all the Governor nonsense. Though if they kill off any of my favourite characters.. maybe I would quit.. I don’t know. I agree with you re the wasted opportunities, there have been so, so many of them. :)

        • sienna elm

          I like the recaps as a preface to the episode too. It helps me to look for or notice certain things that I wouldn’t otherwise have seen or considered.

        • BayTampaBay

          I only watch to know what my bitter kitten friends are talking about and to be able to keep up my end of the conversation.

          IMHO, the best show currently now airing is Dallas on TNT but hey Mr; Selfridges starts back up in April!

      • MsALVA

        If they kill Daryl or Michonne, I’m done with the show. I can deal with pretty much everyone being killed off (especially Creepy Carl), but Daryl and Michonne are the only two that I really care about.

        • Isabel

          Carl is less creepy than Lizzy. He had to kill his own mom! Talk about trauma and no child psychiatrist to anchor him.

          • marlie

            I’m starting to think that Carl isn’t necessarily “crazy,” rather, he’s in the “do what you have to do to survive, even if it’s unpleasant” camp, like Carol. He gets that, more so than his dad. Sure, all of this is going to screw up a little kid, but he’s not seriously disturbed in the way Lizzie was.

        • The Critiquette

          I’d add Carol to that list. The best characters are the ones that are tough, can take care of themselves and do what has to be done. Of course they’re entitled to emotional breakdowns from time to time, but I’m sick of all the whiners and wimps who can’t get their heads straight long enough to defend themselves (aka all the blonde girls, apparently).

          Maggie and Glen, also not bad characters.

    • http://foodycat.blogspot.co.uk/ Alicia

      I can guarantee you that I would get zombie blood all over me the minute I put on a clean shirt. It works with spaghetti sauce, so why not? ;)

      • Mismarker

        Supply runs should involve Tide Sticks, food, and batteries. In that order.

      • paintedfish

        Especially if you wear white.

        • http://foodycat.blogspot.co.uk/ Alicia

          I also have a pale pink cashmere sweater that attracts spilt coffee like some sort of magnet.

          • Raspberry2012

            This is why I’ve banished light colors from my wardrobe, no lie. I don’t care if I get the tired old “Oh, the NYer who always wears black!” comments. I can have a cup of coffee and spaghetti for lunch and be fairly confident.

            • formerlyAnon

              Though I have learned not to brush my teeth or apply sunscreen wearing a dark top. Toothpaste drips and white zinc smears.

            • Raspberry2012

              True – I always do both of those while I’m still in a tee or a bra before I actually get dressed.

    • VermillionSky

      I loved this episode, it was so much better than that wretched one last week with Darryl and Taylor Swift. However, I’m just about burned out on the hopelessness. I do believe that there are bad people out there who would do bad things in this type of situation, but I just don’t believe the majority of people, or even the majority of would-be survivors, are bad. I just don’t. I also am fed up with the outright stupid decisions. I think we are 2 years into the apocalypse by this point, right? Why do they keep making the same stupid mistakes?

      • Mismarker

        A ZA is one of the few places and times the bad guys would flourish. Most “nice”, morally centered people would have a hard time making the jump to the kill or be killed mentality and would die at either their own hands or someone else’s. Our core characters are now experts at killing mindless, shambling zombies. You’ve got to throw in some reprehensible human characters to up the drama.

        • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

          I don’t know.. some of the nice morally centred people have been screwed over a few times too many by the bad people and haven’t been able to do anything about it.. I think they might have a much easier time switching to dead-ing people than suspected. ;) they have probably been plotting to dead the bad guys in their daydreams for a long, long time. This is why shows like Dexter found such a large audience. :)

          • Mismarker

            Comparisons to Dexter? Look no further than Carol. Meek, submissive, victim of abuse to pragmatic badass willing to make tough decisions. I’m all for making this show ALL ABOUT CAROL and making Melissa McBride a star. I’d watch that 24/7.

            Re: bad guys vs. good guys. This must be a hard line to walk for the powers that be at AMC and TWD. I’ve read through issue 70 of the comic, which lines up with most of the current plot lines of the tv series. The amount/occurrence of bad guys has not been overwhelming on the show, imo, and lines up with the comic plots. Aside from the Governor, Randall’s group from season 2, and the Atlanta gang members from season 1 (who turned out to be good people) there have not been many human threats. Somebody help me out if I’m forgetting some bad guys!

        • Isabel

          During a natural disaster, lots of baddies come out. Minor baddies turn into looters and rapists. There are lots of disturbing stories that I heard that happened during the Katrina in New Orleans. Almost none of them made it into print.

          • Mismarker

            Thanks for bringing up a real-life example to further my point! I was going to edit my comment to say much the same (and was thinking specifically of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina) but Disqus wouldn’t let me!

            • Isabel

              As I was leaving New Orleans in September 2005, I saw a Wal Mart being looted. A fireman was the only sensible one there; he was loading up the truck with soft drinks (pop). Everyone else was taking TVs, mattresses, bikes, microwaves, AC window units, and other electronics. BTW, my neighborhood was in the 20% that didn’t flood, so my Katrina stories are not as horrible.

    • SneakyKitty

      This was a hard episode to watch. Did anyone catch Talking Dead after? They were all shaken up, but you could tell that Melissa McBride really took it to heart. The little girls playing Lizzie and Mika were also very articulate about their characters and recognizing the story value in what happened to them. It was one of the best episodes in a long time, if not ever, but I was an ugly crying mess by the end.

    • gsk241

      When Carol confessed to Tyreese, she pushed the gun toward him and told him to do what he had to do. What he had to do in order to survive was to forgive her and move on toward a common goal.

      While it hasn’t been without its pitfalls, these last few episodes have been among the best of the series so far. They have finally begun developing the characters and their world in a meaningful way, and it has made for some pretty good tv. Also, while I bear Andrew Lincoln no particular ill will, I think he is dreadfully miscast and his portrayal of Rick is awful. JMHO.

      • Fisher&SonsFuneralHome

        Andrew Lincoln is ok for me but True Detective had me longing for a world where Matthew McConaghey played Rick.

      • MilaXX

        I don’t think Andrew Lincoln has the shops to carry the lead of a show like this and let us not even speak of his horrible fake American accent.

    • Pennymac

      I had pretty much given up on this show–I’m over the hopeless dirtiness and ridiculous plot pacing–occasionally I’ll on-demand it in the middle of the week if I’m bored. The suspension of belief that survivors of the apocalypse are this stupid was just too much. Having read your recap, however, I guess I’ll watch it later.

      • MilaXX

        The back half is pretty good. As much as it pains me to say this as a Darryl fan, his episodes are the weakest of them. So 4 out of 6 has been good and this last one has been *really* good.

    • http://www.jakestevensdesign.com Jake Stevens

      I’ve pretty much given up on caring about how you guys feel about shows, because lately it’s pretty much always just a string of snobby diatribes.

      • PastryGoddess

        But yet you care enough to visit the site, read the review AND post a comment. You either care…or you don’t care. But you can’t do both at once.

      • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

        Mkay.

    • Hilda Elizabeth Westervelt

      This show is so tiresome. Every week we record it and every week we grudgingly watch it and complain about how irritating it is. At least something happened last night.

      • Mismarker

        As much as I enjoy TWD, I know not everyone feels the same! You are describing my exact feelings about ABC’s “Revenge”. Too many characters my husband and I cared too little about, too many convoluted plots. We finally stopped watching after season 2. Ain’t nobody got time for that!

    • marlie

      I only started watching TWD this season, so I don’t think I have the same level of fatigue with the lack of plot movement and character development as many of the other bitter kittens. That being said, this was probably the most emotionally tense episode I’ve seen, and the only one that has had me still thinking about what happened the next day.

      During the whole episode, I was wondering what they were doing to do about Lizzie, because I knew they had to do *something* but I never expected them to come to the conclusion that they did. Ultimately, I think they made the right decision, but then I start questioning my acceptance of that decision. Of course, I know it’s all fiction, but even in the fictionalized TV universe, I can’t think of ANY other time when the death of a child was a necessary thing, so it’s a little weird to accept it as such this time.

      • MilaXX

        If you had sat through season 2 in real time you’d appreciate even more how much of an improvement this episode was.

        • Mismarker

          I am so glad was able to binge watch season 2. Convinced I would have given up after the twelfth “Dale vs. the rest of the group” moral dilemma.

      • Mismarker

        Have you gone back and watched any of the previous seasons? If not, has it been difficult to “jump in” like this? I started watching at the beginning of season 3 but had to go to Netflix for seasons 1 and 2. Not fulling knowing what was up with Rick and Lori was killing me.

        • marlie

          I watched the first 2 or 3 episodes of S1 with the boyfriend way back when and I couldn’t stomach it. I started again when this season started because he’s in town on Sunday nights now, so I started watching it with him. He usually fills me in on the backstory if I have any questions, so I haven’t really found it difficult. And I’m not going back to the beginning. I think I’m still a little too squeamish.

    • lojoso

      My favorite part of the whole golf shirt incident was that after she got splattered with blood and took off the sweater she was wearing over the shirt, the shirt had even more blood on it than the sweater did. How does that work?

      • The Critiquette

        I kept wondering why she didn’t just grab another shirt. There were lots on the rack.

        • lojoso

          And then when they were in the cabin getting drunk she was back in her old clothes! She saved them? ICK.

    • dickylarue

      I’ve been highly critical of the writing, but it’s gotten significantly better since it returned from hiatus. Ditching the Governor, splitting them all up and losing Hershel has helped the show. I also think taking a nice break from Rick helped tremendously. I mean, it’s not Breaking Bad/Mad Men level good, but there are some weeks I can give it a B for storytelling where it was mired in C’s, D’s and F’s some weeks.

      They really laid it out well last night and set up why Tyrese wouldn’t go batshit when Carol finally confessed. He couldn’t walk Lizzie out into the field and shoot her. You could see that in his face/reaction shot watching Carol do it. He realized in that moment, she’s made of steel and all about doing the dirty work no one else wants to do. That’s a great character arc for someone who couldn’t do that for herself early on or when her zombie daughter ambled out of the barn. She learned from that moment. It’s rare to say that about any character on this show, but Carol’s has grown and has a clear, dare I say well thought out, throughline.

      I also think last night was very dark killing the 2 girls. Herschel getting his head lopped off was very dark. I don’t think things bode well for Beth. They’re killing off all the hopeful happy one’s in gruesome fashion although Beth’s suicidal tendencies may spare her the fate her captor has in store for her.

      The show has gotten better. As for the costuming discussion, it’s ridiculous they don’t all have clean clothes all the time. The other thing that makes no sense is why none of them have bicycles. Did the zombies eat all the mountain bikes? I know Dawn of the Dead already did it (the original is a must watch folks), but I’d love a few episode arc where they holed up in a luxury mall. I’d even forgive blatant product placement. Let them find some baby wipes too while we’re at it.

      And where the Hell did that cabin get gas from? You think heating up the water and getting clean would be a priority over making tea and doing puzzles.

      • Saturnine

        Totally agree with you. You make a great point about the bikes; seeing things repurposed (or rediscovered) because of limited technology would be a nice motif in the show.

      • Mismarker

        Rick was on a bike in the pilot episode. That had to have been a nod to Dawn of the Dead.

        • dickylarue

          You totally know they’re going to film a scene now where they’re all on bikes and get run down by walkers and rival gangs.

    • MilaXX

      I just had a thought. Rick said he couldn’t trust Carol around his kids as part of his excuse when he banished Carol. How ironic is it that the very one he wouldn’t trust is part of the reason why Judith is alive. I cannot wait to see the look on rick’s face when they are reunited.

      • Raspberry2012

        I know, it’s going to be amazing. And look, you know, I blame the show for setting Carol up like that. I think last night during her confession, Carol gave a clearer picture of why she killed Karen & David. But back when that happened, when Rick banished her, the show hadn’t given us any insight to that. Hell, I could probably look up my old post from that episode where I clearly sided with Rick for banishing her – but now? Not so much. Not the fault of Rick or of Carol, but the show. We really had to wait a good long time to get more of Carol’s insights as to why she did it, and to hear more about Karen & David’s conditions, which apparently were too far gone.

        • Saturnine

          I agree with you, but the writers have been fairly consistent with Carol at least about her need to do what’s best for the group. Without knowing much more than she did it, I was fairly sure that it would turn out to be (1) hard for her, and (2) the option that would be best for the group given what they knew at the time.

        • MilaXX

          I never got the impression that they thought Karen & David might recover. In fact quite the opposite I thought the group expected them to die during the night. Why else would you just put them in quarantine with no attempt to make them comfortable or ease their pain? In fact it sounded like no one was even checking on them overnight.

        • The Critiquette

          I don’t think Rick ever claimed that he legitimately thought Karen and David would recover. The problem is, it wasn’t Carol’s decision to make or act to do, and at the time, nobody really understood the disease or knew when the supply team might get back with the medicine. No, they weren’t going to get better, but at the time, did Carol 100% know that? No. She jumped the gun. The fact that it later turned out that she wasn’t wrong didn’t matter to law-enforcer Rick. It wasn’t her decision to make, period.

          Also, with Lizzie, did they 100% know there was no way to get through to her, no alternative but execution? I wanted Carol to shake Lizzie and scream at her, “do you realize what you’ve done?! YOU MURDERED YOUR SISTER!” Also did anyone ever explain the science they learned from the CDC, about exactly what happens to the brain? I just wasn’t totally satisfied that she was a lost cause.

          Also, in the ZA, I would probably be one of the naive and over-trusting people who can’t bear to kill someone who isn’t already dead. And I would likely not last long as a result. :P

      • Mismarker

        My exact feelings after she reappeared a few episodes ago as Lizzie was stifling Judith’s cries. Carol is the only reason that baby is still alive.

      • lynde1038

        I think Carol was maybe trying to put Tyreese’s mind at ease a little bit there. I’m sure Karen wasn’t in great shape when Carol took her out, but if she was that far gone, I think she would have made this point more strongly to Rick during their confrontation. The scene read to me like she was still holding back a bit, so that she could ease Tyreese’s suffering as much as possible.

        I’m looking forward to how they handle Rick and Carol coming back together again. Rick was wrong about trusting her to keep his daughter safe, but she was wrong, too, in the way she handled the girls (which she admitted here). Judith only survived because Carol and Tyreese happened to get back in time (and Carol happened to show up in time before when Lizzie was about to smother Judith), and Mika is dead because they left her alone with a girl they knew was mentally unstable.

        So I’m wondering if they’ll just come to a mutual “we both made mistakes, but were both trying to protect the group, so let’s just move forward” kind of resolution.

        • AthenaJ

          From what I remember, Carol did start to make a case for herself with Rick and mentioned something about how bad a condition they were in, coughing up a lot of blood, etc. Rick was seeing the issue in more black and white terms however… even though they were almost dead, they were still technically alive and he felt Carol crossed the line.

          • lynde1038

            Fair enough. I still think, with her acting on her own and being so cold and callous throughout their road trip, he had legitimate reasons to not be sure he could trust her moving forward. His “I don’t trust you with my kids anymore” wasn’t entirely unfounded. And he certainly had reason to be concerned about how Tyreese would react when they got back, and what he might do to Carol. I agree with posters upthread that Tyreese wasn’t capable of reacting to her confession they way he did here, until after all they went through in this episode.

            I think Rick’s biggest fail in that situation was not taking her back for everyone to decide as a group to decide how to handle it. She shouldn’t have acted on her own, and neither should he. Both have some crow to eat here.

            • AthenaJ

              Agree w/ you pretty much on all counts… Rick and Carol both made bad decisions but at the time were doing what they (mistakenly) deemed necessary for the good of the group. Although in a way it ended up working out for Carol seeing as Tyreese might have killed her in a fit of rage with the state he was in initially at the prison. A few other BKs made great points about him understanding Carol’s mindset more after seeing what she had to do to ensure the survival of the rest of their little group (aka taking out Lizzie). I will say – in regards to the writers having Carol go so far as to kill innocent people who were still alive, it is still something I have an issue with… Especially since I just can’t see the logic since there were others who were already infected, and her touching the two that she killed would just make HER even more of a potential infected person/carrier. I like Carol so I felt like it was almost a character assassination for her to do something so over the top.

            • MilaXX

              I really don’t see Tyreese even in his state of grief ever hurting a woman unless it was a walker. Tyreese couldn’t put Lizzie down and he had just seen her murder Mika.

              As for Carol’s decision. She just did what the others were to scared to do. At the time it was just Karen & David as far as the group knew. They all seem to thing they wouldn’t make it through the night. The had intubation kits, IV set up and ambu bags but did nothing more than tsk, tsk and put them in quarantine. Carol made the hard decision no one else had the guts to do. It was gutsy, but not OTT. Certainly not more OTT than putting Lizzie down.

            • ohayayay

              But here’s the thing…if Karen and David were really in complete quarantine, about to die, and not having any contact with the others, how would killing them really do anything to stop the spread of the virus? Killing them at that point doesn’t really seem justifiable, because it isn’t. The virus had already been transmitted to others.

            • MilaXX

              The separate floor quarantine came later. Karen & David were put in a cell a ways away. It appears the thought was destroy the source which at that time was thought to be K & D. It wasn’t until morning that others started getting sick and Carol realizing her attempt to stem the virus kicks over the water barrel in frustration.

            • MilaXX

              I agree Rick shouldn’t have acted on her own, but part of why he didn’t know her anymore was because he had his head stuck in the ground playing farmer instead of looking at the realities of their living situation. I posted earlier how Tyreese’s words when they got to the cabin echoed Rick’s when they arrived at the prison . (We can live here, we can stay here). Tyreese was looking at that cabin and how cozy it was and wanted to pretend things weren’t as bad as they really are. Rick wanted to believe they could be safe behind the walls of the prison.

              As for his reasons to fear Tyreese. Tyreese lashed out once in a state of grief. Other than that he was always known to be a peaceful man. I actually hated Rick trying to justify his action by saying Tyreese would hurt her. It was a gross exaggeration and just felt like Rick was trying to justify his own actions.

            • lynde1038

              The thing I like best about the situation they set up here is that Carol and Rick are both right and both wrong. You clearly feel that Carol was more in the right here than Rick, but I don’t agree. Both made what are arguably bad calls for real, honest, and valid reasons. Both were trying to protect the people they care about. And both acted on their own when they probably shouldn’t have. There are enough “bad calls” and misjudgments here to go around, which is what makes it interesting to me. (Of course, it also opens it up for all kinds of debate about who was right and wrong, which is part of what I like about it, too. So I’m enjoying reading your perspective!)

              I also don’t think Rick focusing on the farming was such a bad thing. Trying to hold on to a world that doesn’t exist anymore because that’s the kind of world he wanted for his children is a very human and understandable impulse. His view of the road was that it was hellish, and their first weeks at the prison were even worse. He probably should have just abandoned the damn thing, the first time the Governor showed up (especially after the farm went all to hell in mere weeks).

              BUT once they managed to stabilize it and it started working pretty well for the most part — the community certainly seemed to be running pretty smoothly when we first rejoined the group this season — I can’t really blame him for wanting to cling to what they had built and for wanting his son to just be a kid. Six to seven months is enough time for it to not seem so crazy to think that they could make that situation work, and mostly keep the outside world on the other side of the fence.

            • MilaXX

              I’m not saying farming is bad. I’m saying putting on blinders(which Rock literally did when he put on headphones to drown out the sound of the walkers) and farming is bad. My issue with Rick is a matter of unbalance. You can be a farmer AND stay cognizant of the time you are living in. Similarly the kids should have both story time and knife play. I thought Rick could have been mad at Carol but still should have left it for the group to decide, especially since he was intentionally withdraw to the overall running of things. It’s his continual habit of shutting down when things are too much, then wanting it his way or the highway that I find annoying.

            • lynde1038

              I’m just more sympathetic towards Rick, in general, and don’t view his desire to cling to normalcy whenever possible as imbalanced. I think, overall, his back and forth struggles read to me as a believable response to the things they’ve been through, and true to his nature. Not inconsistent characterization.

              He’s coming from a different place than Carol. She lost her kid, and he hasn’t lost his yet. So it makes more sense to me that his desire to hold on to “the way things were” is stronger. He also feels like his leadership, and his handling of numerous things through violent confrontations, led to his son shooting another kid in the head. He consciously set aside that part of himself to try to be a different model for Carl. Perhaps not the best call, given that this is The Walking Dead and that outside world will almost certainly come crashing in. But my point is that after 6 months of relative stability, it was reasonable for him to think he COULD just be a farmer and handle the homefront, while the fences kept that world at bay, and that his son may not have to deal with it. Especially with others willing to go out and forage.

              Also, the biggest “shutting down” and “my way or the highway” moments that spring to mind came in the wake of extreme trauma (losing Lori, having to kill Shane), so I don’t hold them against him. At the end of the day — even with all the ups and downs — he’s just trying to protect the people he cares about, while preserving as much of his and his children’s humanity as possible, and that — for me — has made for a compelling character journey. I know that’s decidedly not true for many viewers. :)

      • dickylarue

        MilaXX – I hope/think Rick’s going to have to swallow a lot of pride for how he treated Carol when/if she hands his kid back to him. I thought him banishing her was ridiculous writing so they better pay it off in a big way. Right now, she’s shaping up as the best leader that group could have. I actually wonder if Tyrese is going to be like Darryl is to Rick. I don’t think Tyrese is going to flip out on her eventually. I think he’s going to back her up.

        • MilaXX

          Actually I think these back 8 episodes show why they need committee rule more than another Ricktatorship. The hard decisions that one can’t make, another one like Carol can step in and do.

    • Saturnine

      Carol’s reaction when she realizes that Lizzie killed Mika was so controlled; you could see the terror and shock, and yet she kept it together for herself, Judith, Tyrese, and even Lizzie. Last night was a drama fest, to be sure, but Melissa McBride’s ability to nuance a scene with saying a word is astonishing.

      • jeeplibby02

        She’s great, isn’t she? An actress with her talent should have been at least a familiar face from frequent character roles, but I had neither seen nor heard of her before The Walking Dead. Hate to say it, but if she were British, she would be in everything, and Melissa McBride would be a household name, as she deserves to be.

    • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

      Oh man, I’m totally guilty of asking about Walking Dead when you don’t blog it and not commenting when you do (mostly because I start feeling redundant when I say “you gave words to my thoughts!” every week).
      I didn’t mind the Beth/Daryl bull so much because Beth is barely no longer a child and Daryl seems so used to being first lieutenant rather than captain- I sort of saw it as two younger siblings learning how to grow out of their dependent tendencies and acknowledge these needs (the former more Beth, the latter more Daryl). Then again, those are some pretty decadent first-world problems to have in a zombie apocalypse and I totally agree it was not well-written enough to justify (especially Daryl, whose mean drunk attempts to be Merle fell flat to me). Also, Beth is an annoying stereotype of teenage girl. “I’m SAD. That means I get to drink, right?” What?)

    • formerlyAnon

      For people who decided more-or-less impulsively to write this post about TWD, your end product is typically articulate, graceful and entertaining. Or, maybe I’ve just been reading a boatload of awful writing recently. (Gah. Work. People who don’t edit. Gah.) But I suspect the former.

      • Saturnine

        I edit a great deal at my job as well, and I thought the same thing. . . “pretty good for a 10-minute churn . . . ”

        ETA: I forgot a comma! D’oh!

        • formerlyAnon

          Ha. Sometimes I let my mistakes go, other times I go in and edit the most picayune stuff, all the while thinking “This is where mental illness begins. You are editing one comment of 100+ on a blog post that will get thousands of hits just this morning. There IS objectively better use of this time!” But I do it anyway.

    • Heather

      I loved the Beth and Daryl episode–it was a turning point for Daryl and fleshed out his emotional life more. He has been the series’ zombie killing workhorse, but never before has an episode focused on him and what is going on in his head.
      Burning down the house and his abused past was cathartic and made sense to me. It was an act of hope for a better future.

      Given that, It is devastating that Daryl is now stuck with a group that is just a bunch of Merles. He can’t seem to escape.

      The dirty clothes thing has annoyed me so much. Why wouldn’t she go back and get another clean shirt from the same rack?! The path was clear. Ugh. Sasha has been wearing those disgusting skinny jeans with the white seams since they showed up at the prison. They must be held together strictly by filth at this point.

    • sunshine and chaos

      I enjoyed last nights episode more than most recently but TWD has such an up and down quality sometimes. I remember from earlier seasons writers and showrunners leaving or being fired and how people felt that affected the quality of the show. I think if they cut back on the number of episodes to 12, most of the problems could be improved. I really didn’t need to see a whole episode devoted to the Governor “bonding” with his new family. It sometimes feels like they are creating filler (both time and story) that they don’t need to. Each season is only 16 episodes, there shouldn’t be that “filler” feeling.

      And they all need to hurry up and get to Terminus before the end of the season. I don’t want to see that storyline get dragged out into next season.

      • Mismarker

        Most scripted shows would benefit from fewer episodes per season. Parenthood, I’m looking at you. Breaking Bad was able to make 16 episodes work while Mad Men does amazingly well with only 13. Thank God TWD isn’t on a traditional 22 episode full season run.

      • Raspberry2012

        I know, I want to see a Terminus reunion already. The thing that’s just hurting my heart is that Rick and Carl still think Judith is dead – I want to see that reunion, dammit, I’ll go through a whole box of Kleenex, I don’t care. That’s one reunion I just don’t want dragged out anymore – they need to know that Baby Judith is still alive.

        • jeeplibby02

          Can you recall which subgroup set out for Terminus first? I, too, am anticipating the reunion, but the one thing I don’t want to see is all of them arriving simultaneously, because then it would make even less sense that they haven’t encountered one another along the way.

          • Raspberry2012

            I dunno, I’m not sure who set out for Terminus first. I think since they all scattered from the prison at the same time, they’re all heading there around the same time, wouldn’t they be? Could be that some were holed up inside houses longer than others by a day or so – for example, Rick, Carl and Michonne may have been in a house a bit longer because of Rick’s injuries. But I’m not certain who’s closer or what their timeline actually is.

    • webslice33

      last night was one of the best episodes ever…it was so emotional

      • jeeplibby02

        It was up there with “Pretty Much Dead Already,” I thought.

    • Sam Smith

      My beef with costuming is that, besides the perpetually dirty clothes when there are clean clothes around every bend, is that too many of the characters are walking around with bare arms and legs just asking for a zombie bite. Yes I would be clean but I also would be outfitted for zombie battles (yes I know its hot, but isn’t proper zombie attire more important?

    • Mismarker

      This episode should have been called “Of Mice and Lizzie”.

    • hayne

      all i was thinking after lizzie killed her sister (pun in her name and the way she carved her sister up – it wasn’t and axe, but still…some little writing quip there?) was “yay, i finally get my wish and someone is going to kill that annoying psychotic brat!!” honestly, after she was ‘playing’ with that walker and carol had to kill it…all i kept saying was “she needs to die. she’s annoying!” mika was a little annoying with the overly naive simplicity as well, but she had promise to learn. and please, remember – i am speaking about these characters, not the young actresses, and i do not condone child executions per se. only in the zombie apocalypse teevee shows, and only when the child annoys me like crazy for 35 min of an episode.

    • Trickytrisha

      I have to put a memo on my computer monitor to quit reading the Walking Dead discussions here. I enjoy the show and find the all the hate and disparagement to be depressing.

    • AutumnInNY

      I love your WD commentaries TLo and do hope you continue. I agree about the costuming. All of these abandoned houses are loaded with closets full of clothing, backpacks, hats, supplies etc yet our Grimes group never seems to take full advantage of them.
      Melissa McBride gave yet another wonderful performance last night. The Carol character is so interesting to watch, there are never any wasted moments in her behaviors. Miss seeing Rick for now 3 episodes in a row and don’t like the trend of having the entire episode focusing on one group. There is plenty of room for an a/b story each week. Yes, the show gets frustrating but I can’t seem to look away. Relieved to see Carol, Tyreese and Lil’Asskicker get out alive and on the road again without the deadly weight of the bad seed.

      • brooklynbull

        A slow-starting but soon mesmerizing episode. Little girls (or boys) with big guns and knives rarely end up well – Carl included.
        For some reason I identified the ominous (Biblical?) column of smoke with some upcoming disaster reveal at Terminus – never connected it to the torched moonshine cabin. And I remain pretty sure that Terminus will be in some way nightmarish.

        I dont worry too much about their dirty clothes (I live in NYC, and so I NEED to do laundry every 3 days, or I soon look like a walker), but the apparent lack of interest in showers seems inexplicable.) But I do wonder how they never seem to search too hard for gas for the cars that believably appear once in a while…

        Am I one of the few that actually likes Andrew Lincoln in his Rick portrayal?? And I dont mind his accent – imagine an American trying tying to do a Brit accent in a similar situation. Also – he’s worked like a dog over the years in this thing – little apparent stunt work, apparently harrowing location shoots, and maintaining a long and complex character arc. And I wll never forget him in the opening hospital episode – truly terrifying, and also -hot.
        Melissa McBride is of course brilliant. Her confession to Tyreese was moving nerve-wracking, and also cathartic – the niggling worry about “What will that primitive Tyreese do when he finds out it was Carol who ….” etc, etc. was nicely resolved. I fantasize a bit about she and Rick having a rapprochement and ruling as benevolent monarchs for a while … with strange little Carl as the Prince Regent ….

        • Mismarker

          I quite like Andrew Lincoln and after these few episodes sans Rick, I’m really beginning to miss him. He seems wholly invested in his character and passionate about the show. His accent doesn’t bother me, either.

        • MilaXX

          Watch Idris Elba do a Baltimore accent on The Wire and you’ll see how awful Andrew’s accent is in comparison.

          • Mismarker

            I’m not saying Andrew Lincoln’s accent is great but it’s not bad enough to take me out of the show. I could rattle off a bunch of foreigners who do a worse Southern accent but I’ll just start and stop with Anna Pacquin on True Blood.

    • Glammie

      Burned out on this show last season. If I’m going to watch a grim, hopeless world, the characters and that world have to be intreresting. And while I’m sure this episode was well done, seeing people kill kids is not my idea of a good time. Not in a world where Sandy Hook happened and not one damn thing changed.

      Sorry, just a little off-topic rant. See you guys in the Mad Men threads.

    • Isabel

      Grim and the African-American hair – Please, someone, tell me if I am wrong. Putting some goop on white hair can give the white characters the greasy look. But, all the African-American characters have “just came out of the beauty parlor” looking hair. Shouldn’t Michone’s braids be loose by now? Tyresse and Bob’s coifs look so nice. I know that the hair is short but shouldn’t it be grimy by now? And Sasha’s pulled back hair looks fab!

      • Eric Stott

        If Michone’s braids haven’t come loose they should be going the other way – right into dreadlocks.

      • jeeplibby02

        Michonne wears dreadlocks, not braids. They don’t ‘come loose’; they have to be cut off. (And yes, without some barbering, Tyreese and Bob should have substantial ‘fros by now. Sasha’s hair, however, is realistic. She has tight, kinky curls in their natural state, and it’s hard to tell how much her hair has grown over time unless it is stretched out or relaxed.)

    • Matthew Vella

      I’ll give the show one thing, its refreshing to see two women as the strongest and most interesting characters; Carol and Michonne. They aren’t defined by romantic relationships or by their sexual appeal, they’re just intelligent, strong characters.

    • Eveniah

      While I agree with you most of the time, I don’t really agree with your assessment of the Daryl and Beth episodes. I have actually been enjoying their dynamic.

    • andreawey

      I’m so with you on the clothes thing, I don’t know how many times I’ve wondered how come they don’t get some clean clothes in one of those towns, it reminds me of a cartoon family who wear the same thing every day so you’ll recognize them, and yeah they don’t get to take baths very often but they’re in the woods and one assumes there are ponds or cricks (lol) take a frickin bath you’re making my skin crawl! Anyway…… that little girl was pretty creepy huh ;)

    • Columbinia

      Oh, Lizzie was the Bad Seed. Let’s be straight, she stabbed and killed her sister Mika so she’d come back as a zombie. That would prove that zombies are people, too. I’d be terrified that she’d go around killing everyone in their sleep to “change” them. Lizzie was scarier than a zombie.

      Yes to where are the clean clothes. But oh, no, now I’m wondering about their undies. If I were in the country club shop, I’d be looking for new shoes. And a again, where are the birds and insects? Aren’t there packs of dogs, feral cat colonies, herds of deer, horses and cows foraging in rural Georgia after the humans have gone? This world has only humans and zombies, with the odd cameo appearance by an animal. It makes little sense. I’d want dogs around as an early warning system and maybe some help in fighting zombies. One could go on and on.

    • Isabel

      Mowed lawns – OK, who is the caretaker of these homes? All the gardens should be overgrown by now. BKs have also mentioned the very clean and organized homes. This is more creepy than Lizzie.

      • DinahR

        good point! haha I do think they tried to sell the idea that the deer were munching everything, but I live in the city and I’m gullible to easy explanations like that. I have problems with skunks and canyon critters, not deer, so I have no idea if that really made sense. :)

    • yllas

      1) I am SO relieved Daryl and Beth didn’t ‘go there’. It would have been false and too easy and expected, but the writers took the high road and left it alone. (I think Daryl is going to meet someone new outside of the group. Not Beth, not Carol. Someone new. If he can get free from the marauding Meryls.) 2) I liked “The Grove” and one of the reasons was it was so quiet! Very scenic, under the trees. No shouting and shooting and blasting and fistfights (well, except for Lizzie melting down and the occasional zombie kill). I liked how Carol and Tyrese so matter of factly sat the kids down outside and said in so many words, just you wait there till we come back out, and then they went in to do their chore. Quietly. I am really liking Carol, and she is looking much prettier now, isn’t she? 3) I think the final episode this season, they will all arrive at this Terminus and we will be left hanging till, what, October? I love this show.

    • ScarlettHarlot

      Melissa McBride was an all-star last night. It was one of the quieter episodes, but so filled with dread. I do believe Cutty forgave her, I think there’s a point where you have to realize you can’t hold on to morality and vengeance. Like others have said, he was complicit in Lizzie’s execution, so he isn’t blameless anymore, either.

      I did miss last week’s recap, as I felt for the first time like there was any optimism in the show, in Bob’s faith and desire to simply not be alone. I thought his story line was great, and I can’t remember the last time I felt so relieved and happy at the end of an episode as when he, Sasha, and Maggie reunited.
      Why didn’t Beth just grab more than one shirt? There were racks of them, no? And who wears white to the apocalypse, anyway? I don’t even wear white to a wine tasting.

    • lvogt

      I have to say, my wife and I really enjoyed both episodes. The in-depth character studies of the survivors of the prison has been some of the best stuff they’ve done. I never expect people are going to do the smartest thing because they almost never do.

      What I got from the yellow shirt scene was about Beth’s ability to deal with it in a completely matter of fact way. It showed she wasn’t a child. She was determined emotionally to have a drink as a rite of passage to being her own person and not her father’s daughter. And her coming of age segued into helping Daryl shed his past. Burning the house was impractical but wonderfully cathartic for Daryl. Now he was his own person and not the little brother. They each achieved personal milestones.

      I thought The Grove was beautifully done as well. I thought the girls did a terrific job but Melissa McBride was spectacular. Carol’s ability to consistently to protect the group no matter how painful… followed by her confession, and willingness to accept the consequences was beautifully sad. That confession followed such heartbreak that she probably didn’t mind dying right then. Tyreese would have probably shot her had she confessed in the earlier scene but his complicity in killing Lizzy put him in the same boat as Carol. He forgave but their relationship is forever changed. They have, however gotten beyond the prison.

    • DinahR

      I hated the Daryll/Beth centric episode. I’d actually been a Beth fan up until that episode, but she got painted with the brush of stupidity and it got spattered all over Daryl’s clean golf shirt.

      All that drama because ‘I need a drink’ was just plain dumb to start with. How about ‘I need some food’ or ‘I need to not sleep on dirt tonight’ — those issues seem a little more realistically pressing. But no, the characters were forced into this bizarre and dangerous mission for … Peach Schnapps. Which, I’m sorry, actually does make a lot of sense for a gal’s first drink. But then Daryl takes the crazy train over, insisting she drink Moonshine — and he knew where that was all along?? Why didn’t they just go there first then? Ugh. This Show. I’ve been willing to overlook the mysterious character turn that took Beth from suicidal to the cutesy, sing-song, pixie dream girl of the zombie apocalypse, but when this episode started pushing hard the Daryl/Beth romantic possibilities I gave up any hope of Daryl or Beth escaping that episode with dignity. Sadly, I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Beth/Daryl.

      I loved last nights episode – mostly because Melissa McBride is flipping amazing. Can we just have a series about her? I may post later after I get thoughts together on that ep. But I just had to express my frustration over how seriously under-utilized Carol is on this show.

    • fogharty

      I’m still trying to figure out why it’s up to Tyreese to forgive or not forgive Carol. As far as I could tell, he and Karen weren’t in a relationship that had gone beyond first base yet. He was not her husband, boyfriend, relative… he had a crush on her and was still at the bringing her flowers stage. He has just as much “right” to forgive her for killing David. He liked Karen… he didn’t own her. Her death was not his to forgive.

    • jilly_d

      I appreciate when you guys do the write-ups! I often don’t get to watch the show for a week or two after it airs, so I don’t read/comment right away. (Just watched The Grove, in fact.) I’m still a fan of the show, even for all its faults, and some weeks, reading your analysis is more enjoyable than the program itself. That said, I thought MM was fantastic last night!