The Walking Dead: Too Far Gone

Posted on December 02, 2013

The-Walking-Dead-Season-4-Episode-8-Tom-Lorenzo-Site-3David Morrisey in AMC’s The Walking Dead

We’re hearing a lot of “FINALLY!” on the Dead-o-sphere this morning, along with “This is how season 3 should have ended!” Both of which are true and on-point statements, as far as we’re concerned, but we’re not willing to join in the chorus of praise. Yes, that was an action-packed, plot-moving hour, which is not something you can say about most episodes of The Walking Dead, which could more accurately be a series titled The Talking Living, because that’s all the characters on this show seem to do: talk, talk, talk. Endlessly.

Wait, we’re bitching again. Let’s start over.

Last night, we got the confrontation between the Governor and Rick that we should have gotten a good 6 or 7 episodes ago at the very least (but frankly, we would’ve preferred it had gone down even earlier than that, because the Gov became tiresome way too early in the story and it seems like everyone who watches the show would have liked it better if he’d been killed off a long time ago).

Oh, forget it. We can’t write about this show without bitching. We’re not even going to try, even if there were some viscerally exciting moments to be had in last night’s mid-season finale (a TV scheduling concept that we hate with the white-hot intensity of a thousand su– bitching again. Must learn to tamp that down). Look, we can’t complain about lack of plot movement, because it lurched forward last night, probably more than it ever has in one episode of the show. The status quo is not only completely upended, it’s entirely unknown. When the show comes back, we’ll have no idea what to expect in terms of who’s still alive and where all the characters are located, now that they’ve been scattered to the wind. And we certainly can’t complain about tension and excitement, because that was probably one of the best action sequences the show ever filmed. These are all big entries in the “plus” column.

But after last week’s episode, when we came to the realization that we’d just spent two whole story-hours watching the Governor do absolutely nothing we haven’t seen him do before, revealing absolutely nothing about him that we didn’t already know, we were slowly coming to the realization that we may just have to walk away from this show for being  nothing  but a series of disappointments and missed opportunities. Then we get an episode like this, which pretty much gives us at least part of what we’ve been asking for from the show, and yet it still left us a little flat. It’s kind of hard, after all, to watch a firefight go on between a couple dozen people when you only know the names of a handful of them, and even then, you’re not assured of any real insight into who they are. Sure, we were rooting for the prison side of the fight, but only in a nominal sense. In other words, “Gosh, we hope Sasha and Tyreese and Bob and Maggie’s sister whose name we can NEVER remember and those homicidal little girls and all those people on the bus survive because …”

Hunh. Can’t come up with a reason.

And then there’s the fact that this story really made no sense at all. Why would any of those people have agreed to what the Governor was doing? Even after he beheaded a man right in front of them, an act that would give pretty much anyone a reason to pause and reflect on their choices. How did that lady suddenly show up out of nowhere with her dead daughter (Blonde White Girl in Danger Alert!)? And what kind of idiot lets their kid dig in the dirt unattended in the zombie apocalypse? Why would the Governor kill Herschel and not Michonne when he had the chance? Why didn’t anyone try and take the shot when the Governor raised the sword to behead Herschel? Why did the Governor’s group pretty much destroy the prison as a refuge when they wanted it for themselves? We can understand why he would do something like that, but why would any of his followers?

But hey, at least Rick learned that you have to be hard in this world and flowery fantasies about a peaceful existence are only dangerous in the long run. That is a brand new lesson! It’s not like the show has hammered this theme incessantly since season one or anything.

Feh. Yeah, there was some excitement and we’re glad both that the Governor is dead and that the status quo is completely upended, but we’re deeply annoyed as to how we got to this point and we have no faith in the show anymore that this signals some sort of energizing new direction. We have every reason to believe when the show comes back that we’re still going to watch dumb characters sit around and argue over dumb decisions until a bunch of them die. That’s been the show’s formula since the beginning and absolutely nothing about it has changed.

Bullet points, because we’re cranky and can’t string full paragraphs together anymore.

  • Andrew Lincoln is a terrible actor. There. We said it.
  • Is Little Ass-Kicker still alive? They left it vague enough. After all, those Little Blonde White Girls (the homicidal ones, not the stupid digging-in-the-dirt one) were in charge of her and last we saw, they were heading back into the prison.
  • By the way, did the Little Blonde White Girl Gang actually kill … those two people whose names we can’t even remember but one of them was Tyreese’s sort-of girlfriend? Was Carol covering that up? If she was, we’re not sure that makes any sense. She’d wander off into the wild and leave those girls without a pseudo-mother?
  • We realize it was the middle of a firefight, but it made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE for Michonne to walk away from a still-breathing Governor, mortal wound or not. That’s a lady who needed to finish the job and needed to see a beheaded Governor at her feet. Every bit of work done to establish her character evaporated in that moment.
  • R.I.P., Herschel. It was probably time for the character to go. Not that we were bored with him, but they’d done everything they could with the character and he has more value to the story now that he’s dead.
  • Darryl is a badass, but we knew that already. Can’t say we buy the use of a rotted corpse as a shield against close-range gunfire, though.
  • And finally: If anyone in the remaining group still thinks Rick should make decisions for them, they need to be shot in the head with a crossbow bolt immediately.

 

 

 

 

[Photo Credit: Gene Page/AMC]

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  • Amelia

    Please,please never tamp down your bitching. It brings joy to the world.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QFW22QV426LUOEPGASPZJWJMDE MishaFoomin

      If an effort at tamping it down must be made, save it for New Year’s. That’s the appropriate time to do such things… and then forget about after two days.

  • Eric Stott

    LOVED the homicidal tots – and I think they’re the rat dissectors

    • Mismarker

      And all those children are with Tyreese now. How convenient! I see some bad things happening in the future.

      • Sobaika

        I hope he wacks them and that’ll be the end of that. The sociopath kids were not my favorite subplot.

        • Mismarker

          Hammer time.

        • Eric Stott

          Carl is troubled, but those little girls are mental cases.

      • MilaXX

        although I have to admit, I cannot wait to see the look on his face when he realizes those kids are the killers.

      • Eric Stott

        If he gets so much as a case of the sniffles he’s going to wake up to find a little girl standing over him with a knife.

    • MilaXX

      I too do and I think he’s gonna figure that out while on the run with them, but that only pisses me off even more about Carol.

      • jen_vasm

        Plus, if Carol was there, this whole fight/losing the prison wouldn’t have happened. She would have picked off the Governor as soon as he started talking, hostages be damned. As for Tyrese, he still needs to get his act together. I do not want to see him playing clueless babysitter to a bunch of crazy homicidal sniper kids.

        • Darren Nesbitt

          Question: Why do we see it as best practices for adults like Carol, Daryl..etc to pop of the first shot quickly. But when the tweens do what Carol taught them they are crazy and homicidal. It looks like those girls took two shots that mattered. Where as Carl was shooting like crazy.

          • jen_vasm

            It’s not that the kids were crazy for killing the aggressors, which they did with dead-eye authority. It’s because their leader, that one little girl who was closest with Carol, is and has been ‘out there’ in the logic dept. all season. As children, they were supposed to get on the bus and stay out of danger’s way. She convinced them to join the fight and therefore put themselves in harm’s way. Did they save Tyrese? Highly likely-yay for him, but he is a grown man responsible for himself. Did they lose track of Judith? Yes, which likely has resulted in her being separated from the rest of the bus people or even her death. They as a group might not be all crazy, but their judgement capacity is unsound, making them highly unstable and danger-prone as an isolated group. As for Carl and the other adults’ shooting accuracy, they all had diminished skills. Maybe Hershel’s death blew all their concentration.

          • Darren Nesbitt

            Thats true. But the 4 little girls seemed pretty in order. You notice that the two older girls grabbed guns while the two younger went the opposite direction with the baby. The small girl could barely hold the carseat so i assume they (or an assisting adult) took the baby and ran to what ever safety they could find.

            I CAN’T BELIEVE Carl didn’t take the shot at the Governor.

          • MilaXX

            Personally I have no problem with the kids knowing how to handle weapons. In the ZA I think they should be learning as soon as they can hold a weapon. It’s a matter of survival. Back when Carol was teaching the kids knife play during storytime I said they need both storytime (to retain some bit of childhood) and weapon practice (in order to have the skills needed in the ZA)

            What makes the kids weird/creepy is naming the walkers like they are pets, feeding the walkers rats, dissecting rats in your room, and playing with blood pooling on the floor.

  • NYCGlamourpuss

    Sorry, TLo, I can’t agree with any of your bitching – other than why Michonne would just kill the Gov and not finish the job with a katana to the noggin, yeah, that much I agree with. But last night didn’t make me nearly as angry as it did you. One totally heartbreaking kill, one totally satisfying kill that was LONG overdue, and the fate of Lil’ Asskicker up in the air. I literally felt my stomach lurching last night – that’s how you know you have a good show.

    • Mismarker

      I loved it, too. Screamed at the TV when Hershel died. Despite all the blood in the car seat, I suspect Judith is alive and with Tyreese and the other children. Very excited to see where everyone is when the show returns! This show is much more interesting when they are on the run.

      • Darren Nesbitt

        Thank god for Carol, The Head Mistress of Zombie world because no one had a plan for the kids in a disaster. I thought it was the law that Beth goes into hiding with the baby. If it weren’t for “Carol’s daughters” the baby would be a zombie delicacy and Tyrese would be dead.

      • unknownlegend

        Just an FYI for everyone who thinks Judith may still be alive….in the comics she dies during that gunfight at the prison. Sorry. Although the writers of the show don’t always follow the plot line of the comics.

        • Mismarker

          Some of us have read the comics and choose not to spoil certain plots that may develop in the show. If you post here again, perhaps you would be so kind as to remember that.

    • MilaXX

      It just felt like the last 3 eps of this half of the season were a waste. Listening to Rick Kirkman talking about “understanding a bit of the Governor’s pathos” on The Talking Dead made me want to chuck a shoe at the tv. We understood he was crazy because of what happened to his family last season, we didn’t need 3 episodes this season to see that. Action wise it was great, but I couldn’t help but think we didn’t need 3 hours to get there.

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        I agree that the two Gov centered episodes were a total waste. I just don’t think *this* one was.

      • martha

        I read somewhere that in the graphic novel the stuff from the last two episodes took place before Woodbury. In that context it would make more sense. Why they did it this way in the show I have NO idea!

      • BayTampaBay

        Rick Kirkman was an awful guest and added nothing.

        • NYCGlamourpuss

          He really was. And he was so awful and glib about the possibility of Judith’s death (“There was an awful lot of blood in that baby seat”, he said with a grin) that I can only hope that that’s a clear sign that she’s alive. That no one would be that indifferent about the death of a baby, even a fictional baby.

          • Mismarker

            He does come across as a bit of an anti-social prick in every single interview I’ve watched or read. He is the creator of the comic and co-creator of the series but there are plenty of other mouth pieces for the show at this point. In my opinion, he needn’t be interviewed ever again.

        • jen_vasm

          OMG, he was awful! Even Marilyn Manson was a better guest.

          • NYCGlamourpuss

            Well, I wouldn’t go quite *that* far (LOL!), but I do see the emphasis you’re getting at. No one was as bad as Manson, but for the creator of the comic book and co-creator of the show to be such an awful guest, he really was pretty bad.

          • Sobaika

            Lies. This guy contributed nothing but at least he didn’t ramble on nonsensically.

          • MilaXX

            now let’s not get carried away. lol

          • jen_vasm

            Haha, guys, I exaggerate with the MM comment – Kirkman didn’t make my boyfriend Chris Hardwick grimace every time he opened his mouth like MM did, but as a person directly tied to the direction of the show, his commentary seemed very disconnected. Especially next to the actors who were so emotionally invested in it, he just seemed not to give a darn.

        • DinahR

          The body language was interesting on Talking Dead. Kirkman was as far to the opposite end of the couch as he could be. Laren Cohen was clearly much closer to the actor who plays Herschel.

    • Isabel

      Michonne cut the Gov in either the heart or lungs. There is no way for him to recover or to move or survive for long. She knew that he would be eaten up soon and that he couldn’t do anything about it. She wanted him to go through what Andrea went through. “Revenge is a dish best served cold” or writhing, in this world.

    • Theresa

      Am I wrong for kinda wishing the Gov hadn’t gotten the headshot from whathername so that Michonne could later come back to find him as a walker, knock out his jaw, and drag him around behind her like when we first met her? It amuses me so!!

    • jen_vasm

      I first kind of thought it was odd/frustrating that Michonne was not going in for the kill, but then I realized she knew that the zombies were near and they would claim him, which was the crueler end. Clueless mom actually did him a favor by shooting him, which I didn’t like. Seeing him as a zombie would’ve been satisfying to me.

      • tereliz

        Eh, I saw it as a plot device. Michonne didn’t finish him off so that Clueless Mom could have the coup de grace. But seeing as we’d only known the character for three whole episodes, it didn’t really have the impact the Governor’s death should have had.

        • marlie

          BUT… we saw clueless mom point and shoot the gun, but we didn’t actually see the Governor dead. Not that I want him to survive, but writers (not Walking Dead) have done crap like that in the past. I’d be quite happy if we were done with him, but I won’t believe it until I see it.

          • Mismarker

            He is dead. Robert Kirkman, Scott Gimple (the showrunner), and David Morrissey have all said in interviews following this episode that the Governor storyline is over.

      • Mismarker

        I liked having clueless mom shoot him in the head. It had a little extra meaning since the Governor was the one who told her you had to kill the brain to kill the zombies. And she had just witnessed him shoot her daughter in the head.

    • Shelley

      Well said!!

  • NightOwl

    Ever since I learned how many of the actors are British and faking a southern drawl it’s been hard to not think of that when they talk. Andrew Lincoln is the worst for this. “Haaaawww abaaawwwwttt we do thaaaaaaas naaawwww?” Too drawn out. Listen to any conversation Rick has with Hershel (who speaks in his normal register) and it becomes very obvious. Same goes for the governor but not as bad. I give the actress who plays Maggie credit, she does a good job of the American accent.

    • Angela_the_Librarian

      I was surprised to hear Lauren Cohen’s (Maggie) accent last night so I looked up her bio. She was actually born in the US and lived here until her teens, then moved to the UK. I think that must be why her accent is more believable (and on the Talking Dead her British accent was very light)

      • MilaXX

        Oh she’s sort of like John Barrowman in reverse.

    • purpleprose78

      I’m southern and I scream at the TV when I hear bad fake southern accents. If the only Southern accent that you’ve ever heard is in Gone with the Wind (also fake), then maybe you shouldn’t be doing a Southern accent.

      • Mismarker

        That’s sad because they are always talking about having these great dialect coaches but you have to have somewhat of a musical ear for dialects. I guess most people aren’t that musical! Just because I am not from the South and have no idea of what is good and bad, who do you think does the best job with selling the accent?

        • MilaXX

          Lauren Cohen.

        • http://foodycat.blogspot.co.uk/ foodycatAlicia

          I’ve wondered that too! Although I guess a “Southern accent” isn’t really a thing any more than a “British” accent is.

        • martha

          I’m from NC and the only Southern accent on this show that doesn’t sound fake to me is the Governer’s.

        • BayTampaBay

          I have lived in Kentucky, Georgia, North Carolina and Florida. IMHO the best southern accent was Merle Dixon’s. He had the southern redneck down to a science.

      • tereliz

        Or everyone sounds like they’re from Savannah in the 1930s when no one talks like that anywhere anymore. Like Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Indeed!

        Ryan Kwanten is really Australian but his Jason Stackhouse rural La. accent is unimpeachable. Inflection is perfect and everything.

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        And even “Gone With the Wind” was pretty bad for Southern accents! Leslie Howard kept lapsing back into a British accent with every other line!

    • mlurve

      CAWWWWWWWWWRL!

  • Christiane Truelove

    Your bitching is a joy to behold.

    Mostly agreed on everything, but Michonne walking away … I saw that as her final dig at the Governor. His wound was lethal and he and she knew it. She wanted his suffering to extend and die slowly, and then turn into a zombie. And part of the horror for him in his final moments would be knowing this would happen.

    • NYCGlamourpuss

      That’s how I took it. The headshots of the mortally wounded are almost kind in a way – let’s keep this innocent person from turning into a monster. But the Gov was already a monster, even in life. That’s how I saw Michonne’s killing him and walking away – “Go ahead, turn into a walker, motherfucker. You deserve it.” Then again, on the other side of the coin, never ever leave them without that head tap!

      • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

        But we didn’t argue for a “head tap.” We just don’t think she’d walk away from a still-breathing Governor. Her desire to see him suffer would take a backseat to her overwhelming, all-consuming need to see him dead.

        • Mismarker

          To me, letting him die and turn was a callback to the sadistic ways in which he offed Merle and Milton. Mortally wounding them and walking away knowing they would turn.

          • Isabel

            Plus, revenge for Andrea! She had to deal with zombie Milton

        • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

          I agree it seems illogical for her to do that. On the other hand though, I think part of her journey this season has been to connect with the other people at the prison, so it does make some sense to me that she would go to help the other people rather than stand there and watch The Governor die.

          I wish she had cut off some parts of him, though. After what he did to Herschel, and after what he did to her, all Michonne does is the one wound? She wants to leave him in pain and ready to become a Zombie Buffet, slicing him open in a few more places makes more sense to me.. :)

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            She doesn’t have to stand there and watch him die. She could behead him and be done with it.

          • DeebaCee

            Cut off both arms… mortal wound, and in the off chance he did survive that, he can’t fight back later on.

          • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

            Totally agree. And if I were Michonne, I would have probably not stopped there. I would have given him stumps for legs as well.. and also maybe chopped off his ears..

            Lets not forget, this was a really bad guy and she knew better than anyone some of the things he did.

            Then again, maybe the writers were trying to show us that she is the better person and that she had let go of her grudge as they were rambling on about a few weeks ago.. that she is not bent on revenge, yada yada.. but we are talking about a character who was spending a lot of time looking for this guy to take him out.. so what they wrote for her really makes zero sense.

            Then again what they write for everyone makes zero sense. Daryl using a zombie as a bullet proof vest? And yet you can break open zombie heads with your boots, but they stop bullets? Daryl is way smarter than that, writers.

            The more I think about it, the more of a mess this mid season finale was.. :(

          • Isaiah Tanenbaum

            >> I would have probably not stopped there. I would have given him stumps for legs as well.. and also maybe chopped off his ears..

            WRONG. Your ears you keep, and I’ll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman that cries out “dear god, what is that thing” will echo in your perfect ears. THAT is what “to the pain means.”

          • Eric Stott

            In the novels Michonne cuts off most of the Governor’s limbs back in Woodbury – and that REALLY gets him stoked to attack the prison.

          • ellisd123

            I had been hoping beyond hope since she appeared on the show, that she would give Guv’nah the comic book treatment. Alas…

            It’s probably too gruesome for tv, I suppose.

        • NYCGlamourpuss

          I know, and I’m agreeing with you. The head-tap is normally done as an act of kindness, for lack of a better word. I totally get why she just left him mortally wounded – she wanted to see him suffer, and I get that. But I was just playing Devil’s Advocate that, on the other hand, you just don’t leave someone un-head-wounded in a ZA.

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            I think she would love to see him suffer too. But she didn’t have that option in the middle of a firefight.

          • NYCGlamourpuss

            That’s why they need better scheduling with these takeovers! ;-) “1:45 PM EST to 2:00 PM EST: Michonne watches Governor suffer and turn.” I’m an admin assistant, I could totally schedule that shit!

          • Eric Stott

            I wish she could have waited until he died and turned, then beheaded him and turned him into a disembodied biting head – just like one of his prizes. Unfortunately there wasn’t time.

          • Euripides Trousers, You Pay Fo

            In an earlier episode she let on that she had pretty much given up on hunting him down. Maybe she just didn’t care enough to finish him off that way, once she knew she had mortally wounded him? At least in the end, he knew exactly who it was that brought forth his demise.

        • tereliz

          One could also argue that the Gov from the last season wouldn’t have let Michonne live long enough to be used as a hostage. Michonne leaving him dying to help the others seems more likely in comparison—not that I’m disagreeing. Michonne would have wanted to see the job finished if she had the time.

          I thought the Clueless mom finishing the job for her took away from all the impact of Michonne’s painful, slow stabbing. Like, seriously, writers? The person who downs the Governor is a newbie character who had fewer lines than T-Dog? ‘Kay then.

    • Mismarker

      When the Gov was squeezing Rick’s neck my first thought was, “are they gonna kill Rick now?” and then “where the fuck is Michonne?”. And then… BLAMMO! I loved her decision to just let the asshole die. A total mirror moment to when the Governor killed Merle and left him to become a zombie.

    • JuliaInBlack

      That’s exactly how I saw it as well, and if I’m remembering correctly right before (or right after) Michonne walked away there was a shot showing several walkers headed his way. I thought she was leaving him to be the live dinner buffet.

    • DonnaL

      Agreed that it was intentional on her part, so he would suffer more. Did you notice the look of contempt on her face when she turned away?

    • MilaXX

      Maybe so, but wouldn’t allowing anyone to turn into a walker just making more potential trouble for yourself? Bad enough we had the return of the Irish lady with the head in the box from this season’s premiere.

  • Alexis Boucher

    Was just discussing this episode with 2 co-workers. We all continue to puzzle over devoting two full episodes showing the Governor’s journey back to the prison. He’s a bad guy. That’s well established. Why waste 2 hours showing a “redemption” story for a character who is well past that?

    Herschel had to go, as much as we loved him. He was a tie to the old world, believing that civility and some sort of society could be carved out in this new world. With him gone, it will be interesting to see what that does not only to Rick but the group as a whole.
    I still watch the show and enjoy it for the most part, flaws and all. Sometimes it’s hard not to feel like it’s wasting my time. It may be better served to go in a direction TLo proposed a while back. The Darryl and Michonne show. Dirty hot redneck with a crossbow and hot black chick with a katana cutting a swath through zombie riddled Georgia like Sherman cutting a path to the sea.

    • MilaXX

      Hershel got the same formula as T-Dog/ One episode where he’s useful and kinda awesome, then his death ep.

      • DeebaCee

        Except Hershel’s always been around doing something. Sometimes in the forefront (i.e. healing Carl or hemorrhagic plague people) or in the background (i.e. Rick’s conscience). T-Dog was just….. that random guy until the one episode where he spoke.

        • MilaXX

          Maybe so, but this season all Hershel did was walk around saying wise things. He wasn’t the doctor or even medical staff. That was Bob and Dr. S. He wasn’t a farmer. That was Rick. Suddenly what 5 sps in he suddenly AWESOME!Doctor.

          • BigShamu

            What? Wasn’t that a “farm” that Herschel let Rick and his group into? Didn’t Herschel save Rick’s son when he was shot? He has been more of a doctor than Boozehound Bob who neglected to collect flu items on the rescue mission, instead found a bottle of liquor and nearly died snatching it back from a crowd of walkers. Yeah, let’s off Herschel. Let’s depend on Rick to grow our food. Good luck with that.

          • MilaXX

            see above response.

          • Jane Morris

            Not suddenly. He saved Carl’s life from a gunshot wound from the get go.

          • MilaXX

            Not this season, actually since they left the farm Hershel’s been little more than the “wise old guy” cliche. I like a show that’s dealing with apocalyptic themes to have someone of faith. I just dislike when all they are is the person with wise sayings.

          • BigShamu

            In favor of what? What’s the interesting, well developed, multi-dimensional character I’m supposed to follow now? Aren’t you tired of the “bad-ass” cliche that Daryl is currently sitting on? How is that any worse than the wise old guy cliche?

          • MilaXX

            No because Darryl doesn’t feel one note to me. Darryl we see caring that Beth’s affect when hearing her boyfriend was killed is odd. We see him joking with Carol, awkwardly trying to accept compliments from people grateful for bringing them produce. We even see some up set over hearing about Carol & offering to accompany Rick to tell Tyreese. In other words we see him do things beside shot people with his cross bow. This season all we saw Hershel do was console Rick and share words of wisdom. Until ep 405 when suddenly we’re reminded that he’s a doctor and he makes the tea. BTW, why didn’t he do that for the red shirts that got burned? Doctor S had already said how Zach dies and that they likely had the same thing. Back in ep one I wondered why he wasn’t tending to the pigs. A simple through away line by Rick back when they noticed the pigs were sick could have implied he was still a vet.

          • NYCGlamourpuss

            He was the only doctor they had for the longest time. Remember, in his life before the ZA, Herschel was a veterinarian. While he wasn’t an actual people doctor, he did a damn good job of keeping wounded and sick people alive since S2.

          • MilaXX

            Except for ep 405(?) he didn’t do any of that this season.

          • Jane Morris

            I was just disagreeing that Hershel was suddenly a doctor in this season. He has been a doctor all along, even recovering from his own leg amputation.
            But yeah, it blows when old people are relegated to ‘wise sage’. Wish writers would not reflect our society in this manner, but enlighten it.

          • MilaXX

            I guess my sarcasm didn’t come through. It’s not that he literally became a Doctor, it’s that he hasn’t acted in that capacity since they left the farm.

          • BigShamu

            He wasn’t given anything to do. There’s not an actor on this earth that would turn down more scenes, dialogue or screen time. None. He was an interesting character that fans cared about. By your reasoning all characters who don’t do anything should be jettisoned.

          • MilaXX

            That’s my point. He wasn’t given anything to do. The writers were done with him and it showed.

          • BigShamu

            I apologize, I misunderstood your frustration. It’s not that you didn’t like the character, it’s that the writers stopped developing and moving his character forward, for whatever reasons, and your opinion is better no Herschel at all than Cardboard Herschel? My bad.

          • MilaXX

            no, it’s not my opinion that no Herschel is better than cardboard Herschel. My opinion is that this season except for in 2 episodes (405 & this one) that all we got was cardboard Herschel.

          • ransue

            A vet who didn’t vet pigs I guess

          • Mismarker

            Pigs are filthy animals.

          • Isabel

            Now we are left with alcoholic medic as the “doctor”; I forgot his name.

    • BigShamu

      I find it interesting that many feel Herschel had to go. Why? I think it’s interesting that they are removing the older characters from the story. Carol, Herschel and the Governor (not sad at all at that last one). Also got rid of the one character who despite all the shit that’s happened still held onto his faith. In one sense, TLo is right, “…but they’d done everything they could with the character…” but that’s only because these writers are not able to write consistent, believable plot lines and motivations. Basically the Walking Dead is a world full ofyoung white men, young white girls with occasionally ethnic characters thrown into the mix. Feh!

      • tereliz

        “Basically the Walking Dead is a world full ofyoung white men, young white girls”

        Exhibit A: Daryl winds up with who when everyone scatters? BETH. (That’s Maggie’s young blonde sister everyone always forgets is named Beth, lol) Double Feh!

        • Sobaika

          I’m just thankful Tyrese, Bob, and Sasha didn’t end up in the same group.

          • Scoobydrew

            I thought Tyrese went with the little homicidal girls. And who is sick Glenn with? A bunch of people we don’t know?

      • DeebaCee

        I think Hershel “had to go” because the group was going to be on the move soon. Hershel isn’t incredibly mobile because of his leg. The group would either have to be slowed down by him or he’d volunteer to be left behind, which the group wouldn’t allow. The latter has already been discussed. I think dying by the hands of the Governor would have a greater impact on the group in the future than is Hershel got caught by some walkers because he was the slow one of the group.

        • BigShamu

          Really? The guy who helped save the Flu victims? Immobile and useless? The defacto doctor once the human doctor died? The most experienced farmer? Really?

          • DeebaCee

            I’m just trying to get in the mind of the writers. I’m not saying that Hershel is completely useless, but farming isn’t the highest priority skill when you’re actively running away from zombies. The farming came in handy when they were trying to make stable home at the prison, but not so much when they’re on the move from vulnerable camp to vulnerable camp.

            Not having a doctor (slash veterinarian) on hand is going to hurt the group though. My bets are they soon find a new medical type person (I’m calling it… a nurse) to replace Hershel.

          • MilaXX

            They have medic Bob

        • Alexis Boucher

          There just seems to be a lot of circles in the story telling. By killing Hershel, they seem to answer the often revisited question of “Can you come back from this?” with a resounding no. The man with the most faith and the one who continued to believe in redemption is gone.
          What would be much more interesting is if they take the question further. If these people can’t “come back” from the horrible things they have done… what comes next? What do they do now? Now that the Governor is out of the picture, hopefully we’ll get an answer.

        • Euripides Trousers, You Pay Fo

          The moment Hershel had that talk with Glenn, I knew his time was coming; it just seemed rich with tragedy.

    • BayTampaBay

      I have reach the point where I am beginning to think it is wasting my time. I would almost rather watch a re-run of Lost In Space. At least Lost In Space has classic cheese & camp! LOL!

  • MasterandServant

    There was a moment last night when Meghan was playing in the dirt when I looked over at my husband and said. “Am I supposed to care if she dies?” Those homocidal little girls made me feel better, though!

    • Theresa

      As that scene started, I turned to my husband and said “please let the little girl playing alone in the mud be eaten by a walker.” Ah, dreams do come true!

  • amf0001

    I’ve stopped watching and am only keeping up via your recaps. I so loved this show in the beginning but it’s just not working for me at all now. The situation never really changes (farm, stability, fall, prison, stability, fall) and while they get better fighters they never get better planners (How could they not have had baby products on them when Lori was pregnant forever?! and why why, why did they not dig a moat around the prison? just stupidity!) So I was ranting a while a go and have now become zen and calm because I no longer watch. I may binge watch when it Season 4 is completely over. Or I may not…

    • Elizabeth Davis-Simpson

      Exactly!!! I am constantly screaming at the TV: Dig. A. Fucking. Moat. Lure the walkers an light ‘em up! Also: What ever happened to Michonne’s great idea of staving off walkers by surrounding yourself with armless, jawless ones? Why don’t they employ that trick anymore? Did they just forget that happened? Does anyone else wonder if Carol took that camp down?

  • Nancy Mueggenberg

    Am I the only one appalled by the continuing neglect of children in the Walking Dead world? It just smacks me out of the story when they show a bus load of adults and only one person says ‘Hey, where’s the kids?’. Frankly the only charectors that have an actual chance of surviving are Carl and the psycho sisters. They are the only pragmatic thinkers in the bunch. When the Gov was posturing endlessly – who wanted to take him out? Carl. When the shit hit the fan at he prison, who had balls to say lets get our guns and fight? The sisters. I think I’d like this show a lot better if Carl and the girls left their albatrosses behind and strike off on their own. They would have a better chance of survival anyway.
    Thanks for the great recap before I head to work – it’ll make my day a lot better!

    • MilaXX

      All I could think was why didn’t they teach little mud playing child to smash walkers in the head? Especially after last week.

      • Boobs Radley

        Exactly. She nearly got eaten when she was surrounded by adults in the camp last week so this week they decide to let her play alone in the dirt unwatched?

        • Isabel

          Clueless Mom was watching floating zombie.

    • Isabel

      Clueless Mom is not as bad as Lori. Remember, she’s been holed up in the apartment for a long time and not out on the road. She just found out how to make zombies really dead. She was looking at zombie in the water to find out whether it would come after her. She learned that zombies float, don’t swim, and don’t drown. How in the world was she supposed to know that they were in a flood plain and that buried zombie will lie still but animate a lot when it smelled Pumpkin’s scent?

  • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

    Oh no, no no no.. I can’t go there with you saying Andrew Lincoln is a terrible actor. Sorry but anyone who saw him in This Life as Egg and compared that to this, knows he is actually a great actor. ;) He really is amazing. Plus he makes those jeans sing.

    I really wish that Mitch guy had been exploded out of the tank. But hello, they had a tank! Where did that come from, when they were having trouble finding stuff just last week or two weeks ago? I could not have been more shocked if the Gov had turned up with a fleet of black helicopters and some cruise ships.

    The writing is terrible, but as long as Daryl remains, I am there, no matter what. I do hope the death of the prison frees them up some and they don’t just head for some other location like the prison. I’d like to see some real thought go into a good place to go.

    And hello, where are all the Costcos? There are over 500 of them in the US, right? That is where I would be headed for supplies..

    • Mismarker

      The tank was in last week’s episode. Mitch (the guy driving it) was a tank driver in the Army and stole it from the base when the ZA broke out.

    • MilaXX

      Maybe so, but he’s terrible on here.

    • NYCGlamourpuss

      I’m with you, I love Andrew Lincoln.

    • Sobaika

      Andrew Lincoln is great, I agree. And I think he’s best at scenes full of despair, like when Lori died and seeing the bloody car seat.

      It’s his character sucks the big one.

      • Mismarker

        Correct. His portrayal of Rick is the ultimate example of polishing a turd.

      • MilaXX

        I think the kid was better last night.

    • lynde1038

      I adore Andrew Lincoln and think he is very, very effective in most cases, especially in quieter moments. But when he’s asked to go big with the yelling and the angst, I think the accent mucks him up. I thought he did a fantastic job conveying how hard it was for Rick to even remotely consider living side by side with the Governor, when he was saying they could all stay at the prison. Lots of things going on there aside from the dialogue. But then when he was yelling for Carl and reacting to the bloody baby carrier, he was far less effective. The post-beating make-up job certainly wasn’t doing him any favors either. Did they put marbles or cotton balls in his mouth?

    • Serious Questions

      The tank guy had been a tank operator in the National Guard and when the ZA was destroying everything decided to just ride off with it.

      Bigger question to me was where did they get the fuel to move the tank. You’re talking gallons per mile not miles per gallon there, and it’s not 87 octane.

      • jjtxgrrl

        Ive always wondered about gasoline in general….when they blaze down an empty road full throttle with nothing but time on their hands…..who would waste gas like that!!??

        One of many things that dont add up……but who’s adding heh?

    • Inspector_Gidget

      I have to agree. Lincoln is NOT a terrible actor overall. Watching any of his previous series and output refutes that, especially in a world where Shia LaBeouf (sp?) and Megan Fox star in multi-billion-dollar blockbusters. Hell, he was fantastic in the pilot of this show, even. Carried the whole thing basically on his own for 2 hours.

      Now, have everyone involved in the show collectively wrecked a great character and given us a completely schizophrenic, unlikable Rick Grimes? That’s fair. I don’t like TV Rick any more than most of you do. But it seems more like a matter of having no clue what to do with the character as written rather than lack of ability.

      Sometimes the material is so bad it unmoors the actors. Based solely on The Phantom Menace, I’d say Liam Neeson and Samuel Jackson were the world’s shittiest actors, which obviously ain’t true.

    • Inspector_Gidget

      Yeah, Costco. And hello, Wal-Mart and Sam’s Club? Most of the cheap goods in the entire world stuffed into thousands and thousands of warehouses across the US. How many homicidal one-eyed maniacs would it take to clear out all those Black Friday goods?

      • http://www.snoskred.org/ Snoskred

        You know, next season, I would really love to see them go on a major shopping spree at some huge mall. Perhaps one that was closed and locked up when the Zombie Apocalypse hit, and instead of being all run down and fusty and dirty like all the other locations have been, I would like it to be clean, sparkling even.. and I would like them all to get new outfits.

        It probably will not happen, because for some reason the staff on this show feel like every location has to be filthy and falling apart now, and it would probably cost a fortune to do that to a mall.

        But I can dream. And I can dream that there are like, designer stores in there, and they all TLO it up?

        Zombie killing whilst fashionably dressed. That is what we need to see.. :)

        • Sobaika

          Sounds like Dawn of the Dead. The one where Mekhi Phifer has a zombie baby.

        • Mismarker

          I love a good makeover/dress-up montage. It could all be set to Right Said Fred’s “I’m Too Sexy”.

          • MilaXX

            Didn’t Will Smith do a scene similar to that in I am Legend?

    • BookishBren

      I am not a Rick fan, but I don’t think Andrew Lincoln is a terrible actor either. Do I think he is on the level of David Morrissey or even Scott Wilson? Nope. But I don’t think he is terrible. I just find the character really super annoying.

    • BigShamu

      Good actors overcome crap material. Great actors turn crap material into gold. Bad actors drown in bad material. I’m betting if you put Jessica Lange in Rick’s character she’d turn it into gold.

    • Scoobydrew

      We don’t have Costco’s in the south, at least not that many. We have Sam’s Club.

  • lexilexi

    Watched Talking Dead for the first time last night. I really felt for old Herschel… he seemed truly devastated to have been removed from the show. It may have been his time, and he may have been out of touch with the zombie infested world, but I enjoyed him. Couldn’t stand him when he was introduced, but grew to admire what he brought to the mayhem.

    For the life of me I don’t know why I get such a kick out of this show. But I confess. It really entertains me, and I just go with the flow and don’t try to second guess or “what if”? It’s just a heap of fun.

    • MilaXX

      I get the impression that the set is probably a pretty decent one to work on. Everyone was visibly touched to lose Hershel. Lauren Cohen was darn near in tears. It was the same thing when they lost T-Dog.

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        I was absolutely moved by how close to tears Maggie was during “The Talking Dead”, same for Beth when they showed her interview. She was pretty much crying.

    • BayTampaBay

      The Talking Dead is awful because the guest are awful or the non-awful guest have nothing to talk about because the show is so poorly written.

      Talking Bad, on the last season of Breaking Bad, was a great show because there was always something to discuss.

  • MilaXX

    I been waiting all morning with my bullet points about why I love/hated this episode and you guys covered most of them.
    my 2 remaining ones:
    - Was anybody else rooting for the Governor to kill Rick? Just a little bit?
    - Can someone introduce Andrew Lincoln to Idris Elba or Damien Lewis so they can teach him how to do a proper American Accent?
    - Can someone else tell the producers of Talking Dead to stop advertising their guest from the show? We can always pretty much figure out who is dying by who’s on the couch with Chris Hardwick.
    - Speaking of Talking Dead. Every time I watch the show and they have cast & crew on. it’s clear they think they are making a much different show than what we are seeing. Having Robert Kirkwood say we “got to see a bit of the Governor’s pathos” these past 3 episodes is pure nonsense.

    • Sobaika

      I find Talking Dead interesting for that reason – it’s sort of bizarre to see how the showrunners and actors view the story versus the viewers.

      • MilaXX

        Bizarre is being kind. I don’t mind a few subtle differences, but sometimes it’s almost the opposite of what we as viewers saw.

        • BayTampaBay

          I have wondered the same thing….Did they watch the same show/episode that I did.

      • Scoobydrew

        i remember when they had Andrea on when she died and everyone was waxing poetic about whata great character she was, and how said her death was and I was thinking anyone that watches the Walking Dead on a regular basis screamed FINALLY when Andrea died. How do you not know this?

      • lynde1038

        Well, the single hour we see is a lot different than their experiences making the show. It’s pretty much the entirety of their lives while they are filming, and the scripts and the filming process typically include a lot more material than what makes it to the screen. The core actors seem to give a lot of thought and care to how they approach their characters, giving them internal lives and motivations that often go beyond what translates to the screen. They may not even watch the final episode that airs, so their experience of the characters and story may be a lot different than ours.

        It’s been very interesting reading David Morrissey’s interviews regarding these last few episodes. I found his understanding of the Governor’s actions and choices very enlightening. (He had some very logical reasoning for why the Governor would kill Herschel first instead of Michonne.) It’s a shame more of what he sees in the story and the character didn’t come across on the screen.

        • CT14

          I think the actors create more dimension than the writers because otherwise they wouldn’t have anything to portray.

        • jjtxgrrl

          I thought Morriseys back stories on his character that he shared on talking dead all sounded nice….but more feels like fluff and puffery if not conveyed in the acting. Others in the show manage to enrichen their ill-written characters (carol) and it comes across.

          Meh. The Governor could have been performed better IMHO

        • Mismarker

          Andrew Lincoln has said in interviews that he does not watch the show.

        • MilaXX

          But isn’t it the job of the showrunners and editors to make sure that these things mesh? As mentioned upthread we’re not seeing subtle nuances and differences, often we’re seeing nearly the exact opposite of what the actors say there intentions are.

          • lynde1038

            Agreed. The showrunners and writers could certainly do a better job at making the episode that makes it to screen do a better job of reflecting the creative team’s intentions. We really shouldn’t need showrunner and actor interviews to clarify story points or character motivations. There’s a difference between putting out something subject to multiple interpretations and something that just doesn’t make logical sense.

            I suspect that the showrunners/editors often think it makes sense because they have the connective tissue in their heads, and they overlook the fact that the audience doesn’t have that same information. For instance, I wonder if in their minds the Governor has been with his new family and this new group for a few months (because they know how all the pieces fit together), and don’t realize that it looks like a ridiculously short amount of time to us. We sit here thinking “Why are these guys listening to this nutter they just met?” but the creative team thinks it makes complete sense that they would follow him because he’s been their leader for awhile now. Or maybe they really do think these folks would fall under his sway in such a short time. Who knows?

            It’s definitely frustrating as an audience member, and I, too, wish they were better at making things mesh, but I understand how and why it happens. And I try not to blame the actors for the disconnect.

    • Mismarker

      I did see the pathos and struggle and viewed his two bottle episodes and last night’s as callback to the over-arching theme of “can you come back from the things you’ve done?”. He was alone and broken, ready to die and then found a reason to keep going. A “family” and a group of people who needed his particular type of leadership. Rick’s speech at the fence made Hershel smile but it made The Governor’s blood boil. As much as he wanted to change or thought he had, he couldn’t come back from what he’d done. It was a devastating revelation.

      • MilaXX

        but did we really need to spend these last 3 eps seeing that? I’m pretty certain that pretty much every body has a bit of PTSD this far into the ZA. The past 3 eps could have been done in 1, maybe 1½ ep. Better yet, at the end of last season.

        • tereliz

          Those last few episodes (granted, I still haven’t watched last week’s) only solidified my suspicions that the Governor was going to bite the big one soon. It wasn’t a redemption arc, it was just a set-up for his final confrontation with Rick. And why was it RICK that was so important to beat practically to death when the Gov had Michonne already? I mean, we all know it wasn’t really about getting the prison at that point, right? Everyone but the Governor’s fresh new troops, that is. But he already had Herschel as a hostage, why didn’t he just off Michonne when none of his guys were watching? Or make her do something stupid that would be an excuse to shoot her? Feh, indeed.

          The tension would have been so much better if they could have intercut those Governor scenes with the prison scenes. I hated it last season when they had “Woodbury” episodes and “Prison” episodes for the same reason.

          • MilaXX

            But we knew last season that the Governor needed to die. I didn’t needs all these extra reasons to understand his “paths”.

          • tereliz

            Exactly. No one cared about the Gov’s arc anymore. The only parts that were necessary to the plot were how he convinced these people to follow him. Which I assume were covered in the last episode I didn’t care enough about to watch. I knew it was just a bridge to that moment with the Gov standing in front of the prison, leading to an eventual bloodbath.

          • MilaXX

            Not really. The Governor taking charge of this camp just didn’t ring true. I just didn’t understand how or why they start following a guy they just met 2 minutes ago. A man who btw, cost them 2 leaders in pretty quick succession soon after joining the camp.

          • SassieCassy

            lmfao @ ‘pathos’

            these people think they’re doing some quality writing dont they

          • MilaXX

            That was Rick Kirkman’s word, not mine.

          • Euripides Trousers, You Pay Fo

            It was a cheap fakeout spread thin over two hours. Martinez wasn’t so important a character that there was any necessity of knowing why he wasn’t with the Governor. The attempt at sleight of hand with the audience in letting us see how human the Governor could be is a bit insulting; sociopaths can be charming. Woodbury wouldn’t have followed this man if they had know how evil he was. The show still has a lot to recommend it, but there seems some sort of struggle between the writers, leading to sudden shifts in characterization.

        • Mismarker

          Maybe so. And maybe we wouldn’t have had these Governor-centric episodes if the other actors weren’t obligated to attend Comic Con? That is a bit of a head scratcher for me. At any rate, I’m just putting it out there that not everyone viewed these episodes as a complete waste of time. I got something out of it all. Even watched “Live Bait” a few more times because I enjoyed it so much.

          • MilaXX

            The Comic Con attendance issue kind of annoys me because that seems like a stupid scheduling issue.

          • BigShamu

            Obligated? Let me see if I understand this? A major television production scripted and produced some pretty useless episodes so the major characters (and I’m assuming other higher up production folks) could attend an hour long panel on the Friday of the San Diego ComicCon? OK.

          • Mismarker

            Re: the Governor bottle episodes. Juan Pablo Castillo confirmed the reason (most of the cast at Comic Con) for these episodes on last week’s Talking Dead. So, yeah. OK.

          • MilaXX

            Yes! If they wanted to take a break from the prison and the virus story, they could have followed Carol for a bit.

    • jeeplibby02

      “Speaking of Talking Dead. Every time I watch the show and they have cast & crew on. it’s clear they think they are making a much different show than what we are seeing.”

      Yes! Nowhere was this better illustrated than when Laurie Holden was on. She kept prattling on about how Andrea didn’t want anyone to die…just wanted a peaceful solution to the feud…cared about everyone…blah, blah, blah. Well, then they shouldn’t have shot all of those scenes in which her loyalties were seriously in question. They simply don’t know how to write and capture the emotional complexities they think are showing us, but really aren’t.

      • MilaXX

        of her saying that Maggie didn’t necessarily agree with Rick banning Carol, but it was done and she just didn’t want him to feel guilty about it. HUH?

      • BookishBren

        Agreed on the Laurie Holden bit. Of course I HATED the character of Andrea. Her death was the feel good moment of any season thus far. lol

        • jeeplibby02

          I certainly came to hate her throughout all that, and was thrilled at her demise.

    • CT14

      I have always found it amazing that the show they think they are making is so very different from the one they do make. Last year “Andrea” tried to explain how the show had been all about her conflict and her desire to keep peace…while the audience just sat there thinking YOUVE SEEN THE ZOMBIE HEAD AQUARIUM! YOUVE SEEN THE ZOMBIE FIGHTS! YOUVE HEARD HOW HE TRIED TO KILL MICHONNE! Why do you keep defending him? He’s evil and there’s no reason for you to think otherwise.

      Edited to add: or exactly what Scoobydrew said.

      • Scoobydrew

        Or how she was feeding the Gov info on them! Remember when he mentioned Little Kick Ass might not be Rick’s? NOT COOL, ANDREA! When The Talking Dead was on I was “who is this Andrea that you speak of, because I think the rest of us were rooting for zombie Miles.” Jiminy Cricket, I was more upset when Merle died …

        And just a thought, no one shot Hershel’s head right? Even though he was decapitated he’s going to come back. There is a hershel zombie head rolling around the prison somewhere.

    • ransue

      Sorry, I stopped reading at Idris Elba. siiighhhh

  • Angela_the_Librarian

    Yes, I think the hardest thing for me to accept last night was the group going along with the Governor’s plan. The guy driving the tank seemed a bit unhinged, but everyone else seemed to be fairly normal. The Governor was only with their group for a short time, so why would they go along with his schemes? If anything, once Rick offered to just let them into the prison most would have probably accepted the offer (though the thought of the Governor living amongst them is a joke). I think the reason that Michonne didn’t decapitate the Governor was that he was then left to be eaten by zombies or become a zombie himself. Killing his brain would have been an act of mercy in the ZA world.

    I was nearly in tears when Herschel was killed. I was also stunned that Rick didn’t at least try to attack the Governor when it became apparent that he was going to hurt Herschel. I think Rick’s speech about being able to hold on to humanity was meant to affirm Herschel’s worldview, but his swift and brutal death at the hand of the Governor uprooted all of that.

    I was surprised that the group actually had some sort of emergency exit plan (even if it wasn’t executed correctly). Do you think they have a designated meeting spot, or will the next half of the season be dedicated to the group scattered trying to find each other? I don’t actually mind the half season concept…it’s better than a show taking two weeks off here and throughout the season. This format allows for the action to keep building.

    • Sobaika

      That was the biggest plothole by FAR – how was ponytail girl the only one to notice something off about the Governor’s plan? I get desperate times and all that, but beheading a kindly old man means it’s time to drop and run.

      The episode reminded me a lot of the Season 2 finale – everyone flying off in different directions after the spit hits the fan. If the gang didn’t develop a meeting spot after the farm burned down, they’re dumber than I’ve come to expect.

  • otterbird

    I was reduced to shouting at the screen when Rick said they had a council and he wasn’t the one in charge of making decisions- EXCEPT WHEN YOU DECIDE TO EXILE ONE OF THE AFORESAID COUNCIL MEMBERS! Though I don’t think I had enough presence of mind to use “aforesaid” at the time.

    • Mismarker

      I took that as a bit of tap dancing and time-buying on his part. Like, “uh, we’re going to have to take a meeting on that, give us a minute.”

      • otterbird

        Except for A) he didn’t go back to say to the remaining members of the council- (which would be.. who- Daryl and Glen?), “So, here’s the proposal” and I had just watched the Honest Trailer for The Walking Dead which points out the show loooooves to contradict when convenient. There’s a particularly funny clip of him saying, “This is not a democracy!” followed by a clip of him saying, “We should take a vote.” Heh.

        • Sobaika

          I think Sasha was a member of the council..?

          Also, who the hell was he referring to when he said people from Woodbury became leaders??

          • otterbird

            Maybe he was counting Michonne, since she was in Woodbury for about ten minutes?

          • Mismarker

            Again, tap-dancing? The Governor lied to his people to get them to raid the prison, why can’t Rick lie to them to convince them to pump the brakes? How would any of them know the difference? I thought it was kind of smart.

          • Elizabeth Davis-Simpson

            Yes, tap dancing. The most interesting part of this scene was seeing Hershel’s face/eyes respond to Rick’s handling of the situation as Rick struggled to think on his feet.

          • MilaXX

            Sasha and maybe some other unseen red shirt? Really, this show likes to compare itself to LOST, but it doesn’t handle a big cast nearly as well. With LOST we knew and cared about the Others, Miles, Penny, the beach crew and the cave crew. Here no so much.

          • SassieCassy

            i used to think lost was really BAD at characters because i began to hate all of them after a while

            but damn if walking dead doesn’t show me some real poor writing

          • MilaXX

            and you actually knew the characters well enough to hate them. The Woodbury folks are all pretty much nameless, faceless entities.

          • jtabz

            I think he meant Tyrese? I was wondering, too … Most of the Woodburyites seem kinda helpless.

    • MilaXX

      Yes, he’s all “I don’t make decisions we got a council now!” I actually yelled out loud at the tv and called him a wuss.

      • SassieCassy

        i think that was the point. it just drove home that without hershel, carol was all they had. daryl michonne and rick are decent fighters and rallying points but thats it

  • Yolanda13

    This was the best episode of the season thus far. The last two episodes leading up to last night were mind-numbingly boring and didn’t move the story at all. At first I thought that the Governor should meet the same death that he meted out to Hershel, but I was happy that Michonne did what she did and I wanted to see the zombies come and feast on him, the same way he let them take out Martinez.
    Killer tots had better aim then Tyrese. I think that Judith aka Lil’ Asskicker is on the bus with Glen and the former Woodbury denizens. And I still think that Carol is covering for the older girl (whose name escapes me – is it Lily or Lizzy?).
    Now that they are out of the prison and back on the road, I look forward to a better second half of the season. A girl can dream…

    • Eric Stott

      Carol is definitely covering for that girl – but the lie was easy because she probably approves of the act and sees her training as being in part responsible.

    • Euripides Trousers, You Pay Fo

      It’s easier to run with the kid if one’s not holding some awkward car seat. I’m guessing that will be what’s shown when the show returns in February. The other option of imagining zombies walking away with a snack seems random, as there hasn’t been an instance where they eat in a mobile fashion.

    • Isabel

      Who’s driving the bus? Glenn looks rather weak.

      • MilaXX

        One of the red shirt exWoodbury crew.

      • Yolanda13

        Not sure who was at the wheel.

  • mjude

    wow didn’t expect all the negativity for this episode. I thought it was great. it’s rick’s story he wont be going anywhere. talking dead was just a good…..

    • Mismarker

      Again, mjude, I direct you to our camp. I’ve relocated it to the muddy banks of the river. Watch out for flash floods.

      • mjude

        thanks for the warning, I am on my way. also bookishbren, Hershel BROKE my heart. and actually carl at the last moments with rick holding him.

        • NYCGlamourpuss

          May I bunk in with the two of you? I’ll bring tons of Bounty Paper Towels to soak up the flash flooding on our banks.

          • mjude

            of course! this could be the beginning of our own group. what should our 3 questions be?

          • NYCGlamourpuss

            1. Who’s the dreamiest guy out of the Grimes Gang?
            2. How do you think Maggie keeps her hair so shiny?
            3. Do you think Carl’s hat is the secret source of all his powers?

          • Mismarker

            1. Rick
            2. Wen
            3. Maybe. Carl became a badass when he started wearing it. And look what happened to Rick when he took it off.

          • mjude

            you are awesome!

          • Isabel

            2. Oily hair makes it look shiny.

          • Mismarker

            Yes!

          • NYCGlamourpuss

            Thank you, babies! And I love the answers from Mismarker – I was thinking the same thing!

    • BigShamu

      That’s too bad because Rick is not very interesting at this point in the story.

    • BookishBren

      I liked it too. It broke my heart (Hershel….crawling, bleeding Hershel….gaaaaah!) and made me cheer (anything with Dary)l!

  • DinahR

    Mostly loved this episode and mostly agree with T and Lo. I still love this show though, I don’t know why sometimes but it’s got me and I know I will watch to the end.

    I don’t think Andrew Lincoln is a terrible actor. Rick is a mess and burdened with the crap they’ve made that character do on the show so far, plus continued questionable writing for him. The direction this show seems to push Rick in just isn’t very smart. Nothing the actor can do about that. I admit I laughed at “I don’t make decisions here anymore!” Honestly, Show? How many times do you need to cover that ground before you realize it ain’t working.

    I have a HABO request here… (Help A Bitch Out :) ) What the heck was Tyrese showing to Rick and Daryl? That red smear on the wall? I got lost with that.

    • Mismarker

      HABO. Love it! The smear was a rat tacked to a board and dissected.

      • DinahR

        Thank you!! Okay, that scene makes a lil more sense to me now!

      • BookishBren

        GOTCHA! I couldn’t figure that out either but didn’t care at the time because I was so stressed out.

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        “HABO” is really awesome! That’s gonna come in really handy when RPDR S6 starts!

    • Isabel

      I just came back from work, so I was tired. It looked like a rat nailed to some drywall or a dissected rat on a piece of wood and it was trapped by some super glue or paint stuff.

      • DinahR

        Thanks muchly! I don’t know why I just could not grasp the image. I think I didn’t switch gears to the rats fast enough from all the other stuff going on.

    • MilaXX

      a dissected rat. Coupled with the dead rats along the fence that someone was feeding the walkers, it gives the impression that Carol may indeed have been covering for the creepy kids.

  • Tomas Maximus

    I have to agree that Lincoln is a bad actor. He does this weird thing with his voice and pronunciation whenever he’s in a big emotional scene that I can’t not notice now and it bugs the hell out of me. In this episode, it was most apparent when he and the Governor are first facing off at the prison. In response to the Governor’s demands, Rick somehow simultaneously shouts/grunts/mumbles his lines: “I donnnnn’t maaaakkkkke the decisions annnymorrrre!” It’s almost like a bad Kirk Douglas impression as performed by Frank Gorshin or Rich Little.

    • MilaXX

      His screaming CURL!!! is starting to grate more than Michael screaming for Walt on LOST.

      • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

        When he started yelling CARL I was like, WHOA, it’s seasons one and two again! I almost expected Lori to run in screaming CARL too.

        • MilaXX

          His accent is so bad it sounds like CURL to me.

          • Eric Stott

            I give him some latitude with that one – he’d just been strangled

          • MilaXX

            He always sounds like that to me.

    • Brent Wolgamott

      I can’t agree that he’s a terrible actor. As Jessica Rabbit might say, “Andrew Lincoln isn’t bad…he’s just written that way.” ;-)

    • susan6

      I’m wondering if people who are having to fake accents (or suppress their normal accents) have particular trouble during scenes where they have to yell. Lincoln has a double whammy of suppressing a British accent while faking a southern accent.

      Noticed something similar at the end of Xmen First Class, when Fassbender is giving the big speech (basically, Magneto becoming the bad guy). He’d had an essentially neutral accent throughout the whole movie, but during that speech I was thinking “why does Magneto suddenly sound like Bono?” His Irish was showing.

      • jeeplibby02

        British actors can often do a Southern drawl more easily than a regionally-indistinct American accent. The latter tends to sound like they are forming words in their throats and speaking through clenched teeth. People like Hugh Laurie and Damien Lewis, who have starring roles as Americans in American shows don’t have this issue, but it is very noticeable with British character actors playing Americans in one-off roles for which they likely receive no voice training.

  • disqus_SNnLCp8GLy

    IMO, Andrew Lincoln is probably one of the best actors on the show. Sometimes the accent is a little off, but I always thought he carried a lot of the episodes.

  • Hilda Elizabeth Westervelt

    I miss Breaking Bad. This dreck doesn’t merit a show that analyzes it.

  • ShaoLinKitten

    Time to delete off the DVR. Good riddance.

  • Paige Boerman

    Did anyone watch the Talking Dead afterwards? I bring this up because they didn’t mention Judith once. She wasn’t shown in their “In Memorium” reel, and no one made any mention of her. Consequently, I think she’s still alive and they were hoping no one would notice she wasn’t brought up or shown.

    • Sobaika

      They did mention her – a fan from twitter asked why Beth wasn’t in the memorium segment, Chris Hardwicke said we don’t know for sure that she’d died, and the writer made a comment about how there was a lot of blood in the seat.

      I think it’s pretty obvious that either Tyrese or Beth grabbed the kid but I hope not. I’ve been screeching since Season 2 that this is not the world to birth a baby in.

    • martha

      Someone asked about it on twitter. The host said that because they didn’t see a body they can’t be sure that she’s dead.

    • AutumnInNY

      I don’t think the baby died. My guess is that she was grabbed by Tyrese.
      Another thought I can see happening is that one of the sisters
      (Tara or Lily) has her. They both survived the bloodbath.

  • BookishBren

    I found Daryl’s response to Carol’s banishment to be very underwhelming. I think they didn’t have time to let Daryl get really pissed at Rick because it was crammed into an episode with bigger fish to fry. THAT is why we shouldn’t have had two week off from Team Prison. If they know their cast has to attend ComiCon during the filming, they need to start fliming earlier.

    I am going to miss Scott Wilson terribly. I realize Hershel was going to be at a huge disadvantage once they start living on the road again and it does make sense for his death to have some meaning, but it still broke my heart. Big Ned Stark flashbacks.

    I am also of the opinion that Tyreese will somehow figure out Lizzie was responsible for killing Karen and That Other Guy and will go out to find Carol in the second half.

  • Inspector_Gidget

    Their major problem is, who cares about any of these people, really? There’s no payoff when they live or die because you don’t care. They don’t feel like real people at all.

    • Mismarker

      I could not disagree more. I care about most of these people and look forward to seeing where the story takes them now that they are scattered to the winds. Hershel’s death and the reaction of Maggie and Beth was gut-wrenching for me. The minute I stop caring about the outcome of characters is the minute I stop watching a show. *side eye at Revenge*

      • Sobaika

        I fall somewhere in the middle. If a majority of these characters were to kick it I wouldn’t care. Rick? You’ve earned yourself a sleep, buddy. Carl? Kill the kid. Tyrese, Bob, Beth? Meh.

        Hershel, Maggie, Michonne, and to a certain extent Glenn were on my Please Do Not Die list, and as a result I was a weepy mess last night.

      • Euripides Trousers, You Pay Fo

        I watch mostly for the characters, despite the occasionally weird shifts in writing. Carol, Darryl and Michonne are the characters I value most. Maggie grew a little on me after this episode. Also curious about Lilly’s sister; hope to see more of her, I’m already tired of Bob. Rick is supposed to provide the audience with an everyman character, but I honestly find Carol to be the most rational.

    • MilaXX

      Agreed. Are there any Woodbury people that you can recall by name? They aren’t full fledged characters so how are we to care about them? I’m not sure I would consider Tyreese & Sasha Woodbury because they stopped at the prison before making their way to Woodbury. I can barely recall the names of the two women that were with the Governor and the creepy kids are Lizzie & who?

      • Inspector_Gidget

        Yeah. The Woodbury people seemed to be exported over to the prison so they could get away with upping the body count with the plague and all that, without killing off major characters. Red shirts!

  • Robert McCoy

    Thank you for this. This show is so relentlessly stupid that the only way I can enjoy it is to laugh at it. I mean the tank assault was like something out Walker, Texas Ranger. This show gets huge ratings so they can put some money into it for believable action sequences to make up for the terrible acting, writing, and directing.

  • Lala

    I liked that Michonne didn’t deliver the fatal head chopping action to the govener. I thought it would have been more fitting (and much more painful) just to let him lie there and be eaten to death. Lily was too kind.

  • NYCGlamourpuss

    I came to the realization over the past handful of episodes that my brother is totally Tyrese – they’re both these gigantic, muscled-up guys who you would *think* would be the go-to guys for protection, but they totally can’t get their shit together. I love my brother, so it pains me to say this, but in a ZA, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see him being rescued by a group of second graders.

    Don’t tell him I said any of that, ‘mkay?

    • imakeart

      We must be related, because I have that brother, too!

    • MilaXX

      Makes you kind of feel for the guy since he’s with the creepy kids.

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        True – but creepy kids who saved his bacon nevertheless. He just needs to sleep with one eye open, that’s all!

  • EEKstl

    We, too, wondered why The Governor chose Hershel vs. Michonne. My theory is that Hershel was more beloved within the group, making them more apt to acquiesce to giving up the prison. Michonne walking away from a still-alive Governor reminded me of leaving James Bond to get eaten by sharks and escaping vs. just shooting the dude. So many ridiculous moments if you really stop to analyze it, but I still found it to be a riveting episode.

    • tereliz

      I wondered why he didn’t just kill Michonne before he even got to the prison, but then his new people would see what a psycho he is.

  • Nonmercisansfacon

    This episode didn’t make any friggin sense! The writers and showrunners have proven they cannot write believable characters. Nobody, absolutly novody, made any decision that a human being with a somewhat functional brain would make. Rick, the Governor, Michonne, everyone with the Governor, Daryl, Beth, what were they thinking? How far and how fast did the woman drive to the prison with her bitten daughter who should have been a zombie by the time the Governor shot her?! Did Carol teach the girls how to shoot without anyone noticing because they hit perfect twice?! Why would they leave Judith unattended? Why did Michonne part ways with Rick after saving him from the Governor? So many questions

    • ShaoLinKitten

      Hey, I just wanted to leave you a note here to apologize for being rude to you the last time I bothered to post about this stupid show. I was looking over TLo’s past reviews, to figure out which ep was the last one I watched, saw our exchange and was like ::facepalm::Hating this show, and the character of Rick, so much made me a little irrational, which is pretty lame considering. That was my cue to stop watching, and reading the reviews have convinced me that was a good idea. Anyway, in the spirit of holiday whatever, forgive me for being a snot. You probably don’t even remember the convo, but anyway… carry on.

      • Nonmercisansfacon

        Hey, I think I remember that discussion. And no need for apologies. And I’m also sorry for getting so worked up about a show too. It’s just that I love the comics and I love the Rick of the first season. But the writers have basically stopped writing him as a believable character, heck, they couldn’t even manage to make him be a decent ‘reluctant hero’ stereotype. He’s just so unhinged and different from one episode to another that I can’t even hate the character since he’s not consistent and believable as a leader, father, friend and survivor of the apocalypse.

        • ShaoLinKitten

          I have always hated Rick, and it always harmed my enjoyment of the show. I never forgave him for that horse ;) I’m grateful to TLo for their detailed recaps, though I think the show is unworthy of their efforts at this point. It’s a shame, too, because it’s a great concept for a show and had a lot of potential.

    • Serious Questions

      How far and how fast did the woman drive to the prison with her bitten
      daughter who should have been a zombie by the time the Governor shot
      her?!

      I think it was established early on in the series that the time to turning varies considerably amongst individuals (not that the mom would know that– and she only had experience with seeing her own dad turn quickly).

  • AutumnInNY

    They sure dismissed the Daryl-Rick scene re: Carol. What was it, six or seven lines of dialogue? As I guessed we won’t be seeing Carol again for months. Guess it was more important to waste 2 valuable hours on a redemption-non redemption story line.
    And missing Scott Wilson already. Was heartsick watching what the Gov did to Hershel.

    • ransue

      I agree about the Daryl-Rick scene. I was anticipating what Daryl’s response to that was going to be and it was something like, oh well, it makes me grumpy but if ya had to, then ok I guess. WTH?

  • YoungSally

    Maggie’s sister is Beth — I only remember this because we share the same name. The way Herschel died was horrible…I was really expecting Maggie to die after her comments about the beautiful waterfall….but no so, yet. I think Michonne wanted the governor to get eaten alive.

    PS — Andrew Lincoln’s monologue and delivery come courtesy of the William Shatner school of the arts

  • Amy Hughes

    Okay, so my big question. That camp that the governor’s new group was watching and debated raiding and didn’t and then later found raided… Who raided them? Is Carol with them? Will our new prison refugee splinters be their next victims?

    • BookishBren

      Yep, that question about the other raiding group is one I have too. And if they are so badass to go in and just kill people, are they the next Big Bad?

  • Harry

    No way. they are all scattered, when the show comes back they will have to start spreading focus around. I still have faith in the show, and I TOTALLY think this season beats the shit out of last season. These people are exhausted. I was in terror the whole 2nd half of this episode and I teared up when Herschel died (especially the blurry head on the ground). agree we didn’t need to give the governor 2 episode prior to this one, but I can’t blame the writers for trying something. Also Tara is still alive and I hope she lives on and becomes a member of the group. dude february is gonna be intense

  • Jason Whitaker

    Long time reader, first time poster (LOL!) because this episode has finally irritated me to your level of frustration. You guys have faithfully called out the problems with this show. It is terribly paced, there’s rarely any decent world or character building, and characters continue to do stupid things ALL THE TIME that make no sense. The only reason that people continue to watch this show is because there is a thirst for zombie apocalypse stuff these days and there’s NO OTHER SHOW TO WATCH to fill that need. How about we reboot this series and put Joss Whedon in charge?? Can I get a hallelujah??

    • Angela_the_Librarian

      Maybe if Joss Whedon was involved in the actual day-to-day running of the show… Agents of SHIELD has been a huge disappointment so far, definitely not Firefly-level quality.

      For me the ZA is only one reason I watch the show. Despite the writing and pacing issues, I still think it is a compelling story of survival. They just need to work on tightening the story and focusing on more interesting characters.

    • MilaXX

      I caught up on the marathon airing of The Returned airing on Sundance. A very different take on ZA but so far very good.

      • Mismarker

        Makes me wish I’d kept up with my French. I fell like I’ve got to watch each episode twice since I miss so much reading subtitles.

  • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

    Y’all saw me ranting in the TLounge, I’m sure. So just – thanks for pointing it out more cogently and thoroughly than I could have. I’m not sure I’m going to watch anymore, but I’ll always tune in for your recaps.
    ETA: In other news, Witches of East End has thoroughly embraced flying off the crazy Asgardian cliff and I love it. It’s a delicious palate cleanser. I wish they’d give Julia Ormond more opportunities to be bitchy instead of just looking pensive and concerned most of the time – I loved her on Mad Men and wish we could see more of Megan’s bitchy mom, and not just in murderous flashbacks.

  • Trickytrisha

    As much as I adore TLo as fashion bloggers, I’m not so sure I’m in their camp when it comes to television commentary in this case. A whole batch of BKs appear to agree with them about this show, but I find the hatred for TWD to be a tad dismaying, nay…distressing. I understand that it is a flawed show, but there are plenty of us fans out there who still care.

    If you dislike the show so much, guys, why continue to watch? Conversely, if all the negativity here bothers me, I need to skip the discussion. We can preserve our peace of mind by opting out.

    Oh, the point about it making no sense for Michonne to leave the Gov alive but mortally wounded? I think it was a lovely touch – he knew those “biters” were coming for him, that he was gonna be eaten alive. Lily had to spoil the fun and shoot him in the head. It would have been oh-so-satisfying seeing “Brian” shambling along with the other walkers.

    • Mismarker

      : ) You are not alone. It’s not perfect, but I’m still invested in the show and like it a great deal. One of my favorite actors, Michael Cudlitz (Officer John Cooper in the fabulous, never-should-have-been canceled Southland), is going to be in the back half of the season. Very much looking forward to that.

  • amber.

    “Andrew Lincoln is a terrible actor. There. We said it.” LOUD GASP I agree with y’all on a lot of stuff but I’m going to have to vehemently disagree with this statement.

  • Mismarker

    Guys, wait. So, Tyreese still doesn’t know about Carol killing Karen and David, right? What if Tyreese meets up with Carol out on the road, they become friends (or “family unit” since Tyreese is with the girls) and Carol never tells him the truth? That would make for an interesting storyline.

  • Badriya Al-Badi’a

    I thought Michonne deliberately walked away from the Governor without beheading him as an additional component of her revenge–it would be too good for him to prevent him from becoming a walker. Sure, you should avoid letting new walkers be created on general principles, but why spare the Governor from that fate. So for me, her walking away was completely in character, in the sense of wanting as much vengeance as possible.

    • susan6

      Yeah…the Governor did the same thing to Merle.

  • tharika fuhrer

    The main reason why they didn’t turn on him when he beheaded Hershel was because in the comics that is exactly what they did and left his corpse for the zombies to devour. The TV series is trying so hard to deviate from the comics that they’re changing parts that really should not be messed with it and the story is suffering because of it.

  • Tom Robinson

    Really I just wished I hadn’t seen Hershel’s death coming from a mile away. Ricks impassioned speech, Hershel’s smile, the swelling music, the governor bringing down the sword. I wanted that gut wrenching feeling from one of my favorite characters being killed off, but alas it didn’t happen. In fact, something about the pacing or directing or whatever with this episode fell super flat for me. My heart didn’t pound in the way I would expect from a mid-season finale.

  • peachykeen5014

    Personally, if I was the Governor’s girlfriend I would have left him there to be torn apart and eaten by walkers, but that’s just me.

    There were so many predictably ridiculous/stupid actions taken in this episode that I was literally sitting and predicting everything that would happen and even exact lines that would be said. If your MID SEASON FINALE is going to be that predictable you’re doing it wrong.

    It’s really disappointing, because for the first 5 or so episodes of this season I thought that the show was finally on track to becoming what I always hoped it would be. There was character development, plots that made some amount of sense, and dialogue that was actually worth listening to. Instead, they throw it all out the window to give a more crowd pleasing (I guess?) showdown of Good (Rick I guess?) versus Evil (The Governor I guess?). Surprise! No one wins because they don’t work together and no one has been able to figure out that that’s how you survive in this new world even though they’ve been living in it for over a year.

    I’m exasperated. And frustrated. The second my friends started raving about how great the episode was and how they can’t wait for it to come back in February I knew I was going to hate it. Because I’m that person.

  • Big Bear

    As soon as the show introduced a gay character I knew it would be no more than a few episodes before she suffered terribly. And she did. Got a girlfriend. Had her shot. By children. And I thought the show hated black men…

  • leonps

    Haven’t been able to bring myself to watch this show after last year’s episodes, but here’s a Los Angeles Times article about the show’s ratings by Scott Collins:
    —————————————————————————————————-
    “Walking Dead” wrapped up the first part of its Season 4 on Sunday,
    with a mid-season finale that drew 12.1 million total viewers, according
    to Nielsen.

    It’s the highest-rated series in the history of cable TV. And even if
    it aired on broadcast TV, “Walking Dead” would be TV’s top show in the
    key adults ages 18 to 49 demographic, with a 6.6 rating. Only NBC’s
    Sunday night NFL games yield a higher number.
    ——————————————————————————————————
    So, I think it’s highly likely the quality of the show will continue it’s current trend. I also expect Project Runway to follow with it’s current quality trajectory.

  • ideated_eyot

    Great assessment by T&L. The scripts are dry as a bone, especially this season. Governor and Rick make the most charisma-deficient ‘alpha’ match-up in recent memory, too.

    FWIW, my fantasy version of this show is an action-heavy, dialogue-light travelogue with Michonne, Darrell and Carol.

  • Marcus

    I think that Andrew Lincoln is a great actor! Remember Lori’s death? Maybe he’s just getting bored.

  • BigShamu

    I’m guessing you guys have given up the ghost on The Walking Dead. Not that I blame you.