The Walking Dead: Indifference

Posted on November 04, 2013

TWD+S4E4+8Andrew Lincoln and Melissa McBride in AMC’s The Walking Dead

 

It seems you simply can’t write an ongoing story set in the zombie apocalypse without making your characters look a little stupid on the regular. Last week we noted with some admiration and appreciation that the characters are finally not doing incredibly dumb, reckless and self-indulgent things every time they breathe, which was making it possible for us to really get to know (and subsequently root for and worry about, for the first time) these characters. A very welcome development in the show’s ongoing evolution. This week, however, we found ourselves wanting at least 3 of the characters to get eaten. And yet, as annoyed and angry as we were watching the hour (note we didn’t use the word “story) unfold last night, we have to admit, it kept us on the hook the entire time and we’re still mulling over some of the choices made, 12 hours after the episode ended. Sure, we wanted to hit Rick in the face with a cast iron frying pan, but we can’t forcefully come down for or against his actions. It’s too gray-area, which was obviously the intent. On that level, this episode worked tremendously well.

On the other hand, it gets harder and harder, 3+ seasons into the show and about two years in-story post-apocalypse (we’re guessing) to watch people like Tyreese wail and whine and generally put everyone around them in danger because of their self-indulgence. There’s a lot of death in this world. We don’t expect the characters to become immune to that, but Tyreese’s deep funk really annoyed us. Besides, it’s hard for us as audience members to truly feel for him when, to be perfectly honest, we can’t even remember his girlfriend’s name and probably wouldn’t be able to pick the actress out of a lineup. In other words, we’re being subjected to an awful lot of grief over someone we don’t even know or care about. Then there’s Bob the alcoholic who reaches for his gun when someone calls him out. Yeah. Let’s keep THAT guy in the group. Oh, and hey, new people who inexplicably survived all this time by being utterly stupid and useless, here’s a couple of guns. Why not come back to our secure prison home with us? Whoops. You’re dead.

That last one annoyed us most of all because it was merely a clumsy insertion into the action to make it seem like Rick was right and Carol was wrong. He didn’t want those two kids tagging along with them while they searched that neighborhood (with its oddly manicured lawns and yards) but for whatever reason, Carol insisted on it, conveniently giving Rick an example of her recklessness and heartlessness to throw back into her face. It was kind of a cheat, because the argument Rick and Carol were having was too evenly matched on both sides; a true moral dilemma. In order to make Rick  not seem like a total asshole (too late, we’d argue) two meaningless characters had to die (or one, with the other presumed) in order to make Carol look that much worse in the end. Just like the meaningless character who died in order to give Tyreese a reason to be a big fat baby.

As for that argument, we thought it made for a pretty engrossing set of scenes, as Rick and Carol both go over their pasts, their losses, and the decisions they were forced to make in this new world. It was really wonderful work, and a testament to how far they’ve taken Carol (especially in the last few episodes). She was always the least-defined woman in a show somewhat famous for how badly the female characters are written and somehow, she’s turned into one of the most fascinating people in the story. We were wrong in our wild guess that she was covering for Carl or someone else, but we’re happy to be so, because a person standing on difficult principles is a better story than a murder mystery,

But in order to advance the plot and have her shoved out of the group – which is almost certainly the start of a larger story  - Rick had to once again act like the biggest asshole on the planet. We could’ve accepted his decision if we didn’t have to spend so much fucking time on how he just hates having to make decisions and just wants to play farmer and if he wasn’t such a huge hypocrite about it. People died on Rick’s watch and some of them he murdered outright (at least two of the prisoners when they arrived at the prison, not to mention Shane – and he was arguably responsible for that guy’s death last season, when he drove away from him as he pleaded for them to wait for him, and then coldly picked up his fallen knapsack after he died). Not to mention his murderous son, who’s not going to get thrown out of the group any time soon. We could have accepted his decision if he acknowledged all that and simply said, “I know. It’s not my place to judge. But you’ll tear the group apart if you stay.” Instead of his moralizing about how he can’t trust her anymore. Oh, fuck you, Rick. We’re not sure if she did the right thing, but you’re exercising some HIGHLY arbitrary morality there if you think you can judge her for it.

But like we said, we’re pretty sure this is the start of a larger story and we’re willing to see where this is going. Carol’s never met the Governor and doesn’t know what he looks like. That alone is enough to tantalize us as she wanders Georgia on her own. Darryl’s certainly not going to appreciate Rick’s decision and neither will Tyreese, for that matter. We suppose it comes down to this: at its worst, this show subjected us to a bunch of annoying, poorly defined people doing dumb things in boring storylines. Last night, we watched people we’re getting to know really well argue with each other about difficult topics and make very hard decisions.

Yeah, some of them are assholes and most of the decisions were dumb, but we can’t complain about the storytelling, the direction, or the acting. It’s all keeping us hooked and keeping us guessing.

This can’t be the end of Carol. We doubt that very much.

 

 

 

 

[Photo Credit: Gene Page/AMC]

    • rosie5215

      In the last scene when Carol pulled around the cul-de-sac in her stationwagon, I really, really hoped that she would plow into Rick.

      • osu86

        I thought the exact same thing. In fact the BF and I were actively cheering for her to plow Rick down.

      • styrch

        I am so glad you said that. I was hoping she would too! I’d rather watch an hour of Carol being a psycho with her own clearly defined moral code than watch Rick be inconsistent and acting all high and mighty.

      • muzan-e

        For that, I would gladly become a faithful viewer once again.

      • Glam Dixie

        OMG, that’s exactly what I told my daughter, haha, then she could go right on back to the prison and just be like, he didn’t make it back, sorry!

      • Daktari100

        The fact that Carol could drive right past Rick and not “accidentally” turn the steering wheel towards (and over) him shows that she is the bigger person in the storyline.

      • CT14

        The entire show would be better if Rick died.

        No more failed attempts to turn him into The Reluctant Hero. Just having to deal with what they have an explore new characters.

        This episode reminded me of how the writers seemed to think Andrea was on this epic quest to bring peace, despite the fact that she KNEW the Governor had a zombie head aquarium and had tried to kill Michonne, her partner of several months. They did a poor job of creating that storyline, since nearly everyone in the audience thought Andrea was a fool.

        Same thing here. They are writing the show for Marilyn Manson and other Rick Grimes groupies. Ugh. Stop it, show!

    • formerlyAnon

      The real question: Did you watch from a gorgeous new couch?

    • lexilexi

      Well, we can be sure Rick will tell the others why he insisted she leave the group. So I guess they’ll all despise her.

      My hope is that she’ll find or set up a new compound… and Rick will have to come crawling back to her to be let in after the prison falls…

      Just last week I was proclaiming my desire for HER to be the leader… and for a moment I thought, like many of the BKs, that she would mow him down. Too bad she didn’t.

      • CT14

        I actually yelled that at my set!

        “Just shoot him!”

    • MilaXX

      I LOVED last night’s episode and I think Rick is a giant raging asshole. I’m also not 100% convinced that Carol didn’t burn those two people to cover up for someone else, but I am also okay if it turns out she did indeed straight up kill them. Rick continually says he doesn’t want to be the leader, that this isn’t a Rictatorship. Then he does stuff like expel Carol. He doesn’t have to like what he did, but he should have let her take her lumps with the group. Honestly besides Rick, I think the only person who would really have a problem with what Carol did would have been Tyrese. Rick banned Carol for himself. Because just like Lori and those stupid pancakes, he wants to believe he’s better than the person who kills and burns 2 people in the attempt to stem an epidemic, but he’s not and Carol staying would have been a reminder of that. The two people found in the house were odd. Were they supposed to be a little mentally slow ? If so why would you give two people who couldn’t figure out how to kill one walker guns?

      • Mismarker

        The guns were to fire a shot if they were in trouble. I didn’t get they were mentally slow. I did get they were probably the “hangers-on” of whatever group from which they were separated. Huh, “separated”. Maybe their group left them behind on purpose. Yikes.

        • Eric Stott

          They didn’t seem mentally slow, but a little goofy – the guy especially.

          • Mismarker

            I’ve seen that actor in other things and I think “slightly off” is just his preferred acting choice.

        • MilaXX

          I honestly got mental deficits from these two. Functional, but slow and yes I think their group left them on purpose. 12 bullets and they spend 2 days locked in the bathroom? Neither of them knows to bash in the head.

          • Mismarker

            The guy was smart enough to say he found most people to be assholes before the apocalypse! I mean, spot-on social commentary. ; ) For me, they seemed liked people who had certain ideals before the ZA and they hadn’t let their new circumstances break them. They were, no doubt, carried through the last 18 months on the backs of others who had become more hardened. Side note: the girl looked just like Alexis Bledel.

            • Isabel

              And too clean! Their clothes were so bright

            • Darren Nesbitt

              It’s only been 18 months? how far as the group moved across the south?

            • Mismarker

              Not far. They started in Georgia and they’re still in Georgia!

      • tereliz

        Side note, but I just wanted to go on the record and say PANCAKES, LORI? YOU COULDN’T EFFING COOK PANCAKES! WTF?!!!1!!

        • mjude

          I cant cook a pancake to save my life…swear

          • Isabel

            Get the pancake in the frozen section. Pop it in the toaster. Geez, Lori, had no common sense even then.

            • mjude

              not the same. poor lori even after death people still hate her.

            • NYCGlamourpuss

              I know, I felt bad. My heart broke a little bit when he said, “She wanted us to be the kind of family who had pancakes on Sundays.” I went, “Awww…”

          • tereliz

            In all seriousness, pancake cooking is ALL ABOUT THE BUBBLES. Wait for the batter to make bubbles before you ladle out the mix, wait for the pancakes to bubble before you flip ‘em. No bubbles, shitty pancakes. Lots of people claim you need to do a practice pancake first, but I’ve never had a problem with that.

            • Sobaika

              Learn something new every day! I’ll keep the bubbles in mind.

            • Mismarker

              Everything tereliz said AND make sure your griddle/pan is hot enough. I put mine on medium to medium-high heat. Preheat for a few minutes and If a few drops of water can sizzle and dance when placed in the pan, you’re ready to start making pancakes!

          • NYCGlamourpuss

            Me neither. I can’t hold that against her.

        • MilaXX

          I wanted to ask why stupid Rick didn’t just say, “let’s go to iHop?” Why eat nasty pancakes every Sunday?

          • YoungSally

            ’cause Rick doesn’t like making decisions or risk confrontation even before the ZA. And Lori wanted to make pancakes damn it!!

      • Goldie

        The guns were already theirs. Rick and Carol asked whey they didn’t shoot pajama walker and they said they only had 12 bullets left. I think Rick took the guns from them until they determined they weren’t a threat.

      • mjude

        I too loved the show last night. I had a headache afterwards. the talking dead was so good too. always gives me such great insight. one of the points were every one was saying to some degree, to “let go” I did not see carol being banished coming at all. no crying, no begging. will rick lie about what happened to tell the truth right away? part of me gets why rick did what he did & part of me was pissed cause I didn’t want to loose another core member. it’s only going to get worse for our friends…..

        • MilaXX

          LOVE the shade Chris kept giving to Marilyn Mason. He was so happy to have thinking guest who had the right balance of celeb-fan and smarts. It made for some really great conversation.

          • mjude

            i loved it too, he was really a great guest. i am quite sure the show wont let another manson debacle happen again.

        • MilaXX

          I like watching the West coast feed after I watch TD. It was interesting to see how “Let go” played out for each person. I also saw the bottle peeking out from under the pile of books Bob saw. You almost miss it, but of course alcoholic Bob would zoom right in on that. I also notice that the car Carol drives away in has “Pardon my dust” written in the dirt on it, but you only really notice the word “Pardon”. Maybe I’m just being hopeful on that, but I think it was the set designers having fun like with the gas sign changed to read “HELL”.

          • mjude

            i always re-watch the show after talking where i noticed the bottle, i did not see it the first time. the gas sign, i knew it looked familiar but until they talked about it on 2nd view i am like YES! also you are right about “pardon” .

          • Mismarker

            The “Pardon” was a nice touch!

    • Boobs Radley

      Team Carol. 100%.

      • MilaXX

        ^This! The writer’s better bring her back soon.

    • Mismarker

      What is the point of having a council if someone *side eye at Rick* is just going to make big decisions like banishing Carol on their fucking own? I’m interested in seeing what Rick is going to tell the group re: Carol’s absence. I need to see Daryl get all up in Rick’s face just like he did Bob Stookey.

      I’m certain this is not the end of Carol. I love her and hope she’s not gone for long.

      You’re hungry. Why not pick ALL the tomatoes, not just the ripe ones.

      RIP red shirt hippies. We barely knew ye.

      • MilaXX

        Wouldn’t it make more sense to grab the green, not quite ripe ones? Half those red ones are gonna be squished the way Rick is carrying the bag,

        • lifetime_student

          Exactly! They are just a few miles from where “Fried Green Tomatoes” was filmed, and there they are wasting all those beautiful green tomatoes.

      • tereliz

        Pick the green tomatoes for seeds, at least!

        Yeah, I can’t say I didn’t like the episode, but I was not happy after it was over, that’s for sure. I hate that Rick gets to be the boss when he feels like it—or is mentally stable enough—and the rest of them just have to deal. I wonder if he is going to tell the others the truth. Will they agree with his decision?

        The red shirt hippies felt too much like a plot device for me, too. “Oh, you’ve got a bad leg and your boyfriend just got his shoulder re-located, yeah, why don’t you two go off alone and hobble around for supplies?” Yeah, that sounds like something Carol would say. This is one of my biggest pet peeves about the show, the few established characters acting out of character. I know Carol is in a weird place right now, waiting for the other shoe to drop with Rick, and I know people do stupid, unpredictable, out of character things all the time, but this show makes me hate it for that.

        • Angela_the_Librarian

          Well, almost every important character has admonished Rick for not being the leader anymore (Hershel, Daryl, now Carol). I’m not sure why they think he makes such great leadership material, but all their coaxing and prodding may have finally sunk in and led him to believe that he should make leadership decisions again. I don’t think the writers have done a very good job of explaining why everyone else is keen for Rick to be a group leader again.

          • MilaXX

            Nah, it was just Rick being self righteous again. I think his whole purpose in taking Carol with them was to decide what to do with her.

            • Angela_the_Librarian

              You’re right that he was being self-righteous, but I also think that the constant nagging about being a leader may have went to his head a bit. I’m probably reading too much into the show again, but from a character stand point I can understand why he may have felt the authority to act on his own (even if he didn’t really have that authority)

            • MilaXX

              I get where the character was coming from. On Talking Dead he said Rick looks at Carol and doesn’t recognize her anymore. I get that, but it’s still coming from a place of not only self righteousness, but also denial. Rick seems to constantly have trouble dealing with the decisions that people now have to make in the ZA and facing the fact that people have to change in order to survive. The Carol he used to know wouldn’t survive very long. She had to change in order to continue living.

        • Magatha

          Yes, the out-of-character aspect bugs me, too. I had the same feeling about poor Andrea. I just could not buy that she’d partner up with someone like the mayor, even before his wackitude manifested, and I certainly couldn’t see her sticking around subsequently, especially having spent a winter with Michonne and learning all kinds of survival tactics. But most of all, I couldn’t believe that Andrea would piss away all those long minutes listening to the mayor’s aide’s death (un-death?) speech without also trying like hell to get out of the chains. She just sat there. That was not Andrea, it was an Andrea-shaped character being Claymationed.

          As for Carol, you could make a strong case for her being able to execute Karen and Dave like that, but you could make a strong case against it, too. Frankly, I don’t see her making such a violent, pre-emptive strike solo, so early in the outbreak, although I think she’s capable of advocating for it.

          Rick should go back to his crops and hand over leadership to the triumvirate of Michonne, Daryl and Maggie.

    • Rachel

      A couple questions I was left with last night: walkers can go up stairs, but not down them? the falling PJ walker last night demonstrated that. Also, are they incapable of climbing out windows? I love my sexy gritbag Darryl as much as the next girl, but when he was chest bumping Bob the alcoholic after he tried to pull a gun on him, the walkers inside the building just stood there. So confused.

      • TrixieConQueso

        Other questions popped up while watching it with my Organic Farmer Type Mother-In-Law. When they were gathering tomatoes, she she shouted at the screen, “WHY aren’t they taking the GREEN ones? They will travel better and ripen up later! So Stupid!” lol. And she also wondered why they weren’t making the Prison more “homey” – “They should have grabbed some more pillows and curtains from the homes…”

        • http://foodycat.blogspot.co.uk/ foodycatAlicia

          I love the sound of your mother in law. So practical!

        • Angela_the_Librarian

          I was also wondering why they weren’t taking soap, shampoo, and toilet paper. I would take anything even remotely useful if I had a way to transport it!

          • Isabel

            Toilet paper – can’t flush it anymore. Soap & shampoos – makes sense to take that.

            • Mismarker

              They probably aren’t p&ping in toilets anymore. I’m thinking it’s more of a big bucket situation. And I’m also thinking I’m gonna be wanting toilet paper.

          • MilaXX

            Especially if you have a car, fill that up. Why limit yourself to what you can put in a backpack?

          • Darren Nesbitt

            I’m assuming the prison has that supplies left of that stuff. Rick’s gang always gets complimented on how clean they look when they meet new people in the zombie world. I’m pretty sure they have washing detergent, soap..etc. (but who wants prison soap? Go get the good stuff from the suburbs!)

        • http://urban-gypsy.com/ Tess Danesi

          That’s all I kept thinking when they were picking tomatoes, why the hell aren’t they taking the green ones. It’s not like they’re coming back to pick them when they ripen. Good point about pillows and curtains :-)

        • CT14

          Why didn’t they take ALL of the medications they could carry? It’s dangerous to go out, so clear the place.

          And why aren’t they taking alcohol? It can sterilize wounds and be a painkiller for amputations.

          • MilaXX

            Especially when it takes DAYS to get there. Of course get what you need, but then take as much of anything else you can carry that may be helpful.

        • Eric Stott

          If they actually thought of making the interior of that prison more comfortable and homey it would make sense…but I guess the whole atmosphere of the show depends on that grey colorless atmosphere. Same thing goes for their clothes – hardly any one (if anyone) wears anything with color in it – and I’ll bet it’s entirely intentional so that they all look like those washed out Zombies.

          • Isabel

            It’s hard to keep the color on clothes with layers of grime and no ALL color-fast detergent.

            • Eric Stott

              still, you’d think that someone would pick up an armful of replacement clothes once in a while…..but I’m being picky, this show requires a continuous suspension of disbelief.

            • Isabel

              Eric, you are right. The kids grow up (maybe not as quickly, since they aren’t eating well). But the clothes wear out with all the running and scraping they have to do.

        • KTBSN

          Who planted the tomatoes? Was it PJ zombie (before being munched on) who was still in her house when Rick and Carol got there but who Sam and Ana were hiding from? Why wasn’t PJ out looking for meat anyhow?

          • Mismarker

            I thought about that, too! Seeds from dropped tomatoes can sprout new plants the next year. Those tomatoes could have been planted before the ZA broke out. The things this show makes me Google. : )

            • Magatha

              But the plants can’t stake themselves so neatly. Hey. Wait. Maybe they are zombie tomatoes and that’s how they can stake themselves. Kamikaze zombie tomatoes.

            • Mismarker

              Haha! Well, they could’ve grown up among last year’s stakes? They didn’t look all that neat too me! Actually, no matter how well I stake my tomatoes, they always end up looking like a damn mess in my garden.

      • styrch

        I was hoping they would have knocked bob into the zombie pit and toss Tyreese after him just to set up the idea that Daryl and Michonne are thinking like Carol (getting rid of liabilities and threats). Then we’d be poised for a Rick spanking.

      • Neal Scearce

        I’ve often wondered about walker biology myself, especially since the beginning of season two with all the bodies in the cars. Did the people die in the car, re-animate, then finally die after having their brains fried while locked in a car during the summer heat? How steep does a hill have to be to become an effective barrier to a walker? How does a walker know when to stop eating a body when it turns? Just a few things that keep me up at night ;-)

        • Mismarker

          I’ve always wondered about the dead found in cars and have not come up with a satisfying answer. Bless this show for giving us so many things to think about. ; )

        • Isabel

          The Zombie 0 and Zombie 1 and maybe Zombie 2 might have caught the disease from the air or maybe mutated to become zombies. The human to zombie via biting happened later. I don’t think that the CDC guy was able to find out who got zick first. (In the case of HIV, the scientists have been able to trace it down to the first person being diagnosed with it).

          The stuck in cars zombies might not have been able to get out because it’s hard to unbuckle the belt, open the door, swing the legs out, bend the knees, and stand up (too complicated). However, they do start to squirm when they smell humans.

      • Gil Magaña

        Walkers have strange secret lives. Let’s not forget the child walker in season one, picking up the doll.

        • CT14

          Or the walkers who went to church.

          Or the wife who would try to come home and turned the door knob.

      • Mismarker

        If we were still in season one, those walkers would have climbed out that window. Heck, even the walkers of season 2 seemed to have pretty good gross motor skills. I love (sarcasm) how they have redefined what the walkers can and can’t do but there is still a bit of a gray when the story dictates. In early episodes of season one, the walkers are able to climb stairs and fences (without simply piling on fellow zombies to do so) and pick up rocks to smash department store windows. So, yeah, either PJ walker was incredibly clumsy or walkers are not able to descend stairs. Climbing stairs? Who knows?

        • Gil Magaña

          They’re all lucky that the walkers can’t conjure a walker tsunami as seen on World War Z. :D

          • MilaXX

            Just watched that this weekend. I really liked it. In fact I was surprised how much I enjoyed it.

        • Sobaika

          I think it’s related to how much time has passed since the initial zombie outbreak – the makeup on the zombies has gotten progressively decrepit and gross.

          • Mismarker

            True, but doesn’t that mean that fresher walkers should be able to physically do more? I don’t know. I try not to think about this stuff because it pulls me out of the show!

            • Eric Stott

              I’ve sometimes wondered- didn’t anyone ever die wearing a suit and tie? EVERYONE looks the same, no matter what.

            • Mismarker

              There were some suit and ties in the first few episodes when they were in downtown Atlanta but now they all seem like simpler, country folk. This makes sense if herds aren’t necessarily moving out of the metropolitan area. And why would they? So much culture. So many good restaurants. ; )

        • MilaXX

          At first it was supposed to be they have a bit of sense memory of sorts and when not going after food, the body goes back to doing what it did pre-zombification like the Morgan’s wife, the people in the restaurant at the town, the people in that church and I assume the zombie girl. Then when Andrea is stuck in the RV they can suddenly climb stairs and on Talking Dead one of the writer’s (I think ) says the newer killed zombies move faster than those who have been dead for a long time.

          I just want them to stick with their own zombie rules, because I agree, it seems a little arbitrary sometimes to what they can or cannot do.

      • marlie

        Last night’s was episode #2 ever for me, and that was one of the questions that I asked the bf. It was so confusing that they were standing on the roof arguing while the zombies were reaching out the window. Made no sense.

        ETA: And if they’re *that* dumb, couldn’t the two people hiding in the bathroom try to make a run for it to escape the zombie in the PJs?

    • Angela_the_Librarian

      Yeah, this episode was mostly a snooze fest until the last 10 minutes. I couldn’t believe he was kicking Carol out of the group (though I’m sure she’ll return at a pivotal moment). I still don’t completely understand her motivations for killing Karen(?) and the guy–they were already isolated from the general population so it wasn’t likely that they would have continued to spread the disease around. I know that she said it was essentially a mercy killing, but I think she may have used that as an excuse to justify her rationale for stopping the spread of contagion. I appreciate that Carol did what she felt was necessary to keep the group alive, but I also see Rick’s point (even if he is a GIANT hypocrite) of not wanting someone to make such unilateral decisions about the lives and deaths of others. I think Carol’s leaving will ultimately create a huge gap at the prison and will cause a huge conflict between Tyreese and Daryl (and Daryl against Rick). I really think that their days are numbered at the prison.

      • CT14

        Rick is the only one Rick wants making unilateral decisions!

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        See, I agree with you. Because, I see Rick’s point, and I also see Carol’s point. And at the same time, I disagree with what Rick did, and I disagree with what Carol did. And that’s the point, I think – life in the ZA is a gray area now. Moral issues like this get you thinking, and we’re all very much thinking. I was horrified that Rick kicked her out. But on the other side of the coin, if Carol can make a decision like murdering two members of their group who were sick, but not dead and zombified yet, then heaven help the next person who has a cough. She made a decision without the group, and Rick made a decision without the group. There will be repercussions from both decisions made, both Rick’s and Carol’s. Morally, it’s enough to make your head spin – which is the point (from my way of thinking). No more easy and clean decisions in a ZA.

    • Sobaika

      Ooooh, I love Carol. She/the actress is fascinating. But I’ll come out and say that Rick did the right thing in not letting her come back.

      A) He was kind of saving her, now Tyreese can’t use her as a punching bag.
      B) She killed two people in cold blood. As much as I get why she did it and even admire her survival instinct, she jumped the gun without knowing the spread and impact of the flu or considering other alternatives. What’s she going to do now, go back and kill the two dozen people hacking up blood in the cells?

      On a side note, I’m wondering how Daryl will react. He seemed to be on Tyreese’s side and kept saying he would get whoever did it but when it’s known that his main boo was the culprit, who knows.

      • Mismarker

        That’s why I am so curious to see how Rick handles this. Will he tell people she died? Will he tell the truth or stretch it? You’re right, Tyreese would probably have gone Donkey Kong on her if she’d come back to the prison.

        As for how Daryl will react… gosh, I just don’t know. It seems like the writers are putting Michonne and Daryl together and this gives me a sad.

        • Inspector_Gidget

          Heh. I wouldn’t be surprised if he lied about it. And *that* never comes back to bite anyone in the ass, does it? (Rick is dead. Merle is dead. Woops, my bad!)

        • CT14

          Exactly. Like they noticed people shipping Carol and Daryl and said “yuck. Let’s get rid of Carol, at least until we hook up Michonne and Daryl, despite the fact Michonne and Daryl have next to no history together and Carol and Daryl do.”

          • Isabel

            Carol’s hair color makes her look older than she really is. Was she having radiation treatments when the zombies first came? Or did her hair change color due to her husband’s treatment of her?

      • MilaXX

        Rick wasn’t saving her. He was removing her because he couldn’t bear the constant reminder that she made a hard decision. Rick loves himself some illusions.

        • Sobaika

          Sure, but this has effectively saved her from harm via Tyreese. The man is a loose cannon.

          • MilaXX

            Not Rick’s call to make. If she felt she could handle Tyrese, then let her. This is a woman who lived for years in an abusive relationship and come out the other side. I think she could handle Tyrese.

          • Scoobydrew

            Carol said she could take care of Tyreese, and I believe her. He’s a loose cannon for sure, and Carol is a woman that gets things done. I think she would have found a way to handle him.

            I’m hoping that Carol meets the Governor, kills him, drives back to the prison, throws the head in Rick’s garden and rides off into the sunset with Darryl.

      • Inspector_Gidget

        I agree to an extent. The problem is that he seems to apply this “rough justice” very arbitrarily. Carl gunned down a kid in cold blood, but he gets a pass because nepotism I guess. And wasn’t Carol on the council?

        • Sobaika

          I think that makes her choice even worse, actually. She is on the council but didn’t even run the idea of isolation-via-murder by them and took it upon herself.

      • CT14

        Rick kills people in cold blood, too, he just rationalizes to himself later. Part of the reason he’s getting rid of Carol is she acted without his agreement or permission EVEN THOUGH HES NOT ON THE COUNCIL.

        In fact, you can argue he’s killing Carol here, since he’s leaving her alone to fend for herself against zombies and rape gangs. Rick just won’t have to *see* it, so he can continue to pretend he’s the reluctant hero. He’s certainly not saving her.

      • Nonmercisansfacon

        That scene with Carol talking to Lizzie gave me chills (the good and bad kind)! I could practically see Lizzie turning into a miniature psychopath like last season’s Carl, all under Carol tutelage. I wouldn’t be surprised if she goes on a rampage in the sick cell.

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        See what I posted above to Angela the Librarian – I totally agree with you!

    • Inspector_Gidget

      Inconsistent writing is my biggest frustration with this show. (Go figure, with a staff shuffle every few months.) None of these characters feel like real people because they change direction with the wind, whenever a new script requires them to do something different. It’s a shame because the acting is overall quite good, but the actors have to work with what they are given.

    • Gil Magaña

      Glad someone quickly noticed the accidental Fashion tag attached to this post; “Lighten up, it’s just The Walking Dead/take the corn cob out (of) Rick’s ass…”

      Thanks for articulating exactly what I felt about Rick’s behavior in last night’s episode. In the past, I’ve suspended a lot of disbelief at his behavior and thought him to be less offensive than some viewers make him out to be, but there’s no way around the hypocrisy of his actions and demeanor at the end of “Indifference”. It’ll be interesting to see if Daryl or Hershel provide any sort of feedback to rattle him from his compromised sense of premise. Carl murdered a kid in cold blood, Rick’s poor decisions have cost lives.

      Convinced here too that Carol shall return at some point; what would be the purpose of upgrading Melissa McBride to the opening credits for a 4 episode arc? Hopefully, this will be the chance for the writers to redeem past failures at evoking female characters, long a weak point for this show; it’d be a massive letdown to see Carol go this season, when there’s room for balance in the series. There’s a compelling story there that shouldn’t go to waste, one infinitely more interesting than Lori or Andrea’s.

      Looking at the promotional posters, I’m wondering if perhaps Carol might be the character that brings Abraham and Rosita into the plot. But I do love the idea of her crossing paths with the Governor, knowing what she knows and knowing her practical regard to dealing with survival in the post-apocalypse.

      • Mismarker

        I am 99.9% sure she is coming back for the same reason you’ve given. Wouldn’t it be cool to meet up with her and see she is now the leader of some new group? I would absolutely love that.

      • Isabel

        Is the Gov and his two soldiers just living on the road? Or did they find Dale’s travel trailer?

        • Mismarker

          Dale’s RV is in ashes on Hershel’s farm. : ) I’m very interested to see what the last few months have done to the Governor and just how he will be inserted back into the story.

    • CT14

      Thank you so much for the “Fuck you, Rick”.

      I really wish the writers would get over their ridiculous desire to make this the “Rick Grimes is always Right” show. Seriously! I don’t care what happens in the comics. TV works better with a functional ensemble.

      As for the hypocritical kicking out Carol to face zombies and rape gangs on her own…WHY DOES HE THINK HE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT? Carol is actually on the Council, and even if she didn’t discuss her plans with anyone else. HOW IS RICK MAKING DECISIONS WITHOUT TALKING TO ANYONE ELSE ANY DIFFERENT?

      I thought Carol should just shoot Rick. Or get in her car and drive to the prison anyway. How dare he try to take those girls away from her, or act like she’s a threat to Judith.

      Carol took it like an abused wife, though, and it made me even angrier.

      • Mismarker

        I was initially a little disappointed with how little of a fight was put up when she realized she wasn’t getting back in the Tucson to head back to the prison. I then realized the whole sequence with Rick and Carol was the argument. Melissa McBride said in a recent interview how impressed she is with the writing this season and how there is “no word wasted”. While picking tomatoes with Rick, Carol says she stayed with Ed mostly because she was afraid to be alone. She has changed so much (#WeAllChange) that she is no longer afraid to be alone. For me, this is the ultimate shedding of the abused wife mentality.

        • Sobaika

          I think she knew it was coming – Carol remarked about the timing of going on a raid and leaving only Maggie at the prison. This was definitely a trip for the two of them to hash it out.

          • MilaXX

            I think she knew some sort of confrontation was coming. I don’t think she knew what he was doing until he locked the car door. However she knew immediately what that door locked meant and wasn’t surprised that was his decision. (Hope this makes sense.)

    • bellafigura1

      OK. Deep breath. I was incensed over Rick’s banishment of Carol because I thought they were brilliantly setting up a Rick/Carol-off, where everyone would have to choose between Aggressive Mommy and Laissez-faire Daddy (just like real life!). Including Daryl! Including Carl! That was my hope. This new wrinkle seemed very out of character for both of them, especially Carol, who I would guess would have a very hard time leaving the gang without so much as a ta-ta.

      Hopes Dashed! How can Rick possibly return to the prison and explain Carol’s absence?

    • AutumnInNY

      I’m positive as the other posters have mentioned that we have not seen the last of Carol.
      Rick and Daryl will be having some words over this and Daryl will head out looking for her. Tyreese is a loose cannon and Rick could have just let it go with Carol based on their ZA history but clearly feels threatened having her at the prison. If she does join forces with the governor, yikes. Remember he has no qualms about taking out people he’s been close to. ie: Andrea, Milton, the truck load of Woodburians. Just sayin’.

    • KTBSN

      Carol may not have met the governor in person but surely she knows of Michonne taking his eye out and will recognize him when she runs into him.

      • Mismarker

        And even if she didn’t know him on sight, his actions would most certainly give him away.

    • BookishBren

      Wonder if anyone else feels this way—I am now more freaked out by any new character the group encounters than by the zombies. The writers started the idea of “fear the living” last year with the Governor, but with Weird Chick in the Woods in the season premiere, I am now really weirded out by anyone new they meet and keep waiting for them to attack or something. Well played, writers.

      Also, I am so Team Carol it isn’t even funny. I don’t know where Rick gets off thinking he can play Farmer Rick for months, let everyone else make all of the tough decisions, but suddenly do something like this. He isn’t even on the council. On TD, Andrew Lincoln (I believe) said this woman was asking Carl to lie to him, etc so he was doing it as a parent. Well, true. She did ask Carl not to tell Rick about the defense lessons, but only because Rick didn’t want the kids to know how to defend themselves, which is REALLY DUMB. I think Tyrese would be upset with her and possibly might want to kill her. But I do think others in the group would support her based on the reasoning behind it. So many others have killed “to protect the group.” I am not completely sure how different this was.

    • MilaXX

      Just had another really bad thought. Bob said the walkers at the school were also infected and they showed one that had the same bleeding eyes as Patrick. The school was 2 days away maybe? Are they on the verge of a plague?

      • Mismarker

        I think that’s maybe their way of saying the plague’s already here? We already knew it was outside the prison walls since the walker at the fence in episode 1 had it. And the boar in the woods was sick.

    • Jeff Baab

      AMC should make Carol the leader of the Walking Dead spin off show they are supposedly doing.

      • BigShamu

        Be careful what you wish for. It’s not like the writers and directors of Walking Dead have had stellar results on this show. I would hate to see them siphon off a character that had finally developed into someone we could cheer for only to put them in a show where new writers and directors having them suffer from The Stupid all over again. My hope for Carol is that she hooks up with the dude that’s defending that little town all by himself. From Season 1? Morgan. Carol and Morgan would kick ass.

    • Nonmercisansfacon

      This episode was surprisingly good. Rick made a decision that would be much more defensible coming from anyone else without his history of stupidity, Carol is turning into a cold-blooded-governor-like- bordeline sociopath in order to survive which is a fascinating (and wonderful to me) development. Survival at all cost seems to be her new motto which is understandable in a zombie apocalypse but what is then the point of living in group/community? If you consider the sick and the weaker members of your community to be threats (which they can be and are since they can impede your chances of survival) that needs to be eliminated, what kind of community to you want to create? Maybe the only kind of community that can survive a zombie apocalypse but you might as well become cannibals.

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        Exactly. If anyone else but Rick had made this decision, there might not be such an outrage. Someone upthread had said something to the effect of “How dare Rick act like Carol would be a threat to Judith!” But wouldn’t she? It’s not like she had anything against Karen and David directly – only that they were sick and she was worried the plague would spread. And so… what IF baby Judith comes down with a fever and a cough? As a parent, why should Rick’s mind not immediately go to his kids?

        So if we all take a deep breath and think about this from, say Hershel’s point of view. Let’s say Hershel was the one who banned her out of the group without consulting others. Would everyone be just as angry to hear Hershel say, “What if Maggie or Beth get sick? I need to look out for my daughters.” Would we be more understanding, or just as angry?

        I agree with you that it seems people are more angry that it’s RICK doing the banning than the fact that Carol was banned at all.

    • Badriya Al-Badi’a

      I appreciated the fact that Rick did own his hypocrisy in making a unilateral decision about Carol–or at any rate, I felt that’s what was happening when Rick said even if it was just him and his two kids back at the prison, he wouldn’t want Carol with them, and that he was doing this for himself.

      Also, maybe it’s true that Carol could handle Tyrese, but I’m not sure how she could prevent him from trying to kill her without killing him. Furthermore, imagine the turmoil it would throw the whole group into if Carol were still there when the story came out (as I think it would have to). Many people would probably side with Tyrese in wanting her executed for what she did. The cans of worms it would open up in trying to hold any kind of trial–who among them is innocent of any wrong-doing, and how many of them have committed something that could be considered murder already? I think Rick spared the community a lot of stress and trauma–perhaps prevented it from fracturing altogether–by taking the sole responsibility for a solution to the problem. And that is why the others all still want him to be/treat him as a leader, because that is what he does, the unpleasant things that nobody else wants to have to face.

      (and I’m totally not just biased towards Rick because my husband and I were Rick and Lori–postmortem Lori–for Halloween ;-)

      • NYCGlamourpuss

        That’s the other thing I was thinking. The big question mark still hanging in the air was “Someone in our group living inside our walls killed two people.” Once she confessed, how does Rick keep that under wraps? They still would need to find out who did it. And once it came out – really? They’re really just going to trust Tyrese not to kill Carol? They can’t provide a 24 hour watch – what’s to stop him from killing her in her sleep? He almost killed Rick for pulling him off of Daryl. Then what do you do – ban Tyrese for committing murder? Execute Carol before Tyrese can act? Banish her before he can act? Let them both live there and hope that everything will be okay? It’s enough to make your head spin, and honestly, I think it’s an amazing plot twist.

        • Carnivalbaby

          I think Rick made the right decision. I think the show isnt about the Group making it through the ZA it is also about the individuals and how they come to grips with the lives the now have to live. I think this season is being brilliantly executed by the writers and is possibly the best season ever so far. It bugs me that most fans can’t seem to get past Rick and the decisions he has to make…I see a man who is suffering in an attempt to retain his humanity and that of those around him in the midst of all of this. From the first five mins of that episode Carol was clearly completely crazy to me. I think that we as fans need to get that Kirkman (the creator) is trying to do more than entertain us, but he wants us to really think too about what we do in those positions. I think this was an episode of extremely hard decisions. I really though Daryl was gonna kick alcoholic guy out of the group. But he didnt. Against his will. Is it a good decision? Only time will tell. Michonne is also struggling with decisions. Carol didnt plough him over because she had any humanity left. She didnt because she knew he was right, she would survive on her own.

    • Matthew Vella

      I can’t understand why she didn’t just shot him in the head, go back and be like “Guys, he didn’t make it but I’m your new queen.”

    • Jeannie Shmina Greenwald

      I thought he was being quite harsh with her, considering everything. Thumbs down for Rick throwing Carol out to fend for herself. Not that she isn’t strong and capable. To be effectively alone in this world is just plain cruel. Oh, so she killed two people? Well, they would have died, surely, and most likely, taken many others with them.

    • Tomas Maximus

      You touched on a few of the things about this episode that jolted me out of the suspension of belief necessary to really get caught up in this make-believe world. The oddly well-kept lawns in the subdivision, for one thing. I’m in Michigan and if my lawn goes uncut for two summers, it would be a knee-high thicket of grasses, bushes and saplings. I imagine in Georgia the subdivision would like like a mini jungle. Likewise, the houses, the streets, all the infrastructure would look increasingly dilapidated. To me, this is not a small point. The whole pre-zombie world is decaying and rusting away; the show needs to reflect that better. So when the show uses a light scattering of dead leaves on the road to indicate neglect, it feels contrived. Or to second your observation about the curiously naive young couple, how could these two possibly have survived for two days, let alone two years? I would say that at this point in the apocalypse, anybody that is still alive and still human knows how to survive situations a lot more dire than one zombie in PJs up on the second floor of a house. Sheesh.

    • DinahR

      Carol is easily the best actress on that show. Not to knock the others who are also very good, but from the start Carol took a role where she barely had lines, and really did wring as much as possible out of her meager screen time.

      She not only defined her character as much as could be expected, but showed believable change through Carol’s attitude, body language and actions to show Carole’s progress so that it’s now possible to believe Carole is really a badass. If the actress had not been doing that all along this change would have been out of left field because, sadly, Carol hardly ever gets lines. Glad this is all changing.

    • DinahR

      I haven’t read the comics, where I hear that Tyrese is a great char. But… I’m not lovin’ him on this show. Which is really a bummer on a LOT of levels, but still. I think that if Carol were taken back to the group – given the chance to explain her side, people might accept what she did. Tyrese may not, but … what has he done for the group compared to what Carole has done? I don’t know. If I were there and had to choose between, I’d chose the person who was a strong leader and made a hard decision and is a solid, dependable worker who has always been there vs. the guy who just wanted a date and doesn’t like killing zombies, or going out on runs, or … pretty much anything else that is useful. Yes, he’s big and strong but as Michonne was noticing he’s pretty much a liability.