Mad T LOunge

Posted on June 02, 2013

Yes, we’re putting our weekly Mad Men viewing party post up quite early this week, but hey, what better thing to do on a Sunday than start drinking early, amirite?

Besides, we have opinions to express.

 

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The Campbell Apartment, Grand Central Terminal, NYC.

And we ask you, could there possibly be a better place to watch the show than that?

And now… a rant. No, not a rant, darlings. That implies we’re angry when at best we’re just mildly annoyed. Still, we feel like venting a little.

As y’all probably know, the internet fairly exploded this week when it was revealed that Megan Draper was wearing a t-shirt made famous by actress and Manson Family murder victim Sharon Tate.


We say “it was revealed” because it was one of those things that a whole bunch of people uncovered or noticed at roughly the same time and costume designer Janie Bryant came right out and confirmed the connection on her twitter account within hours. There’s been some crankiness about who deserves credit for discovering it first, but we’re pulling out of that conversation. We found out about the connection because we follow Janie on twitter. We never claimed to have discovered it independently and we’d never claim to have that precise and practically photographic a memory as to be able to identify the shirt on sight. In fact, we’d never even seen those pictures of Sharon Tate before. We’re just thankful – as in, we actually said loudly, with relief, “Thank GOD we mentioned that” – that we managed to get down months ago our impression that Janie had deliberately moved Megan into a Sharon Tate style direction, what with the much more outrageous outfits, hair and makeup this season. Very much a “Valley of the Dolls” kind of look. After documenting and analyzing the costuming on this show obsessively for years, it would have been kind of depressing to have essentially the biggest news about Mad Men costuming to ever hit the internet pass us by, thus our relief that we made mention of it very early. Had we known the internet was going to explode so much over it we would have made a bigger deal out of it.

But here’s where we part ways with practically everyone else who wrote about this revelation this week: We don’t truly believe Megan is going to be murdered. That’s never been how the costuming on this show worked.

The first 3 seasons of the show deliberately had Betty dressed to look like Grace Kelly – and the resemblance was actually a plot point at times.

 

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In the very earliest days of the show, Joan was meant to evoke Marilyn, even if the similarities were only vague. Again; the resemblance was actually a plot point at times. Joan is now working something akin to an Elizabeth Taylor late ’60s look when she gets dressed up, and Betty’s like one of those glamorous mom actresses of the period, like Hope Lange or Shirley Jones (with a touch of Pat Nixon). Janie has always pulled from iconic female figures when it came to dressing the more glamorous of the female characters on the show. With Megan, she hit the mother lode because she came into the story just as the fashions got crazier and with the storyline of pursuing a performing career, which opened up whole new costuming vistas for Janie after years of dressing housewives, secretaries, and office workers.

 

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But Joan is not likely to die of an overdose of sleeping pills like Marilyn did and Betty’s probably not going to die in a car crash like the former Grace Kelly did. Bringing Sharon Tate in as a reference right now is perfectly in line with the work Janie’s been doing all along on the show. These are subtle and beautiful ways to place you directly in the period by evoking the very women who defined beauty during it, without making the references too obvious. They also reveal something about the character or the times. Betty is dressed like Grace because she’s a Main Line princess with a glamorous international career who gave it up to marry and have children, just like Grace.

Joan evoked Marilyn because a huge part of her character arc is about how the men around her see and treat her because of her body, and how she has both paid a price for that, and simultaneously learned how to wield it as a tool to get what she wants. Post-divorce, with a rocky and colorful romantic history behind her, she’s now occasionally referencing the multi-divorced queen of the rocky romantic history, Liz Taylor.

 


Megan is dressed like Sharon Tate because she’s a glamorous-looking actress who married very well and, like Joan and Betty, the style she’s mimicking suits her perfectly. We’ll see if more similarities will surface, but we would be very surprised if Megan wound up dead. Janie has never been quite that obvious in her costuming choices. We think the presence of that shirt ties into the general theme of encroaching violence and urban anxieties that has permeated this season. It’s possible someone will get hurt and maybe even killed, but we just can’t hop on board the frantic “MEGAN IS A GONER” freaking out this week. Everything we know about the costuming of the show tells us it just doesn’t work that way.

Bear in mind that this is how the show used costuming and staging to foreshadow the first Kennedy assassination:

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Not a pink suit or pillbox hat in sight. The show has never been that literal.

Now, there has been an awful lot of death talk and death imagery this season, even more so than usual. And as we said, the theme of encroaching violence has been ramped up considerably. It’s 1968, the most violent, turbulent year of the decade. It’s likely that something is going to happen, but we just can’t make that automatic leap that Megan is going to die because she’s wearing a t-shirt. That’s a level of Twin Peaks-like coding the show’s never really dabbled in before. It’s entirely possible it was meant to have been merely a call-back to Abe’s stabbing and nothing more than that. And Janie herself mentioned the t-shirt having political significance; using it to refer to the tumultuous political landscape of the time.

Just had to get that one of our chests. The costuming of this show suddenly became a big story this week and we just weren’t loving the way the conventional wisdom was shaking out on this one.

Also: we will eat our pillbox hats if Bob Benson turns out to be any of the more outrageous (and curiously popular, given the show’s low-key, slow-burn narrative history) theories currently being bandied about. Not that we’re planting our flag firmly in our “secretly a gay man” theory; just that we have a near-impossible time believing he’ll turn out to be some form of spy or government agent or secret illegitimate child of anyone else in the story. Harrumph.

Annnnd scene. Discuss amongst yourselves. Also, feel free to rejoice over last night’s awesome Orphan Black finale or tonight’s Game of Thrones or whatever else strikes the collective kitten fancy. It’s a T Lo TVstravaganza.

 

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Is it us… or does that preview actually function like a normal preview for once? Not that we can predict what’s going to happen; just that it doesn’t seem quite so vague for once. Joan looks gorgeous in that blue, green, and yellow floral.

 

[Photo Credit: AMC, grandcentralterminal.com - Stills: tomandlorenzo.com - Viceo Credit: AMC]

    • HuevosBenedicto

      Yeah I don’t think it’ll be as simple as “Megan’s wearing Sharon Tate’s t-shirt therefore she’s going to get killed like Sharon Tate”. The show’s always worked within the realms of history more or less (for all intents and purposes SCDP could’ve existed) and having an actress like Megan murdered would be huge news, therefore jumping the shark a little.

      I do think someone’s dying though. The violent imagery – the fact it’s 1968 alone – is too much to bare.

      • https://twitter.com/#!/rmccarthyjames RMJ12345

        I agree. They built the suicide allusions to a gruesome climax last year, and they’re building to something this year, too. I still think it might be Megan, but it could just as easily be Moira or Sylvia or Arnold. I don’t know specifically who, but I can’t believe they won’t follow up on the very heavy focus on murder throughout this season.

        • P M

          Or Meredith gets shot. In which case, I’m going to miss that bird-brained pixie.

      • Alice Teeple

        There’s always the “Valley of the Dolls” route for Megan. I could see Arlene being a pill popper and getting her hooked, too. (Speaking of jumping the shark…we DID have Ted McGinley earlier in the season.)

        • Write On

          Nooooooo! Please, gods of television, let “Mad Men” escape the Ted McGinley shark-jump!

      • Aurumgirl

        Everyone is just jumping to conclusions because they’re not putting the star-t-shirt “decision” into the context of costume design. They’re just seeing it as a “sign” in a vacuum. If you’re writing a long and brilliant series on exactly what the costume designer is doing on the show, and how it fleshes out the narrative of the story, then context is everything, and you don’t jump to conclusions because that one in particular doesn’t make sense.

        However, when I read last Wednesday’s analysis and looked at the Sharon Tate photo, the hair on the back of my neck stood up, and I know I’m not alone in having this response. I had a sense of dread that I can’t really put into words, but that doesn’t matter. The thing is, when you’re dramatizing a particularly violent time in history, and trying to communicate the sense of foreboding and fear that might have been prevalent then to a viewing audience that has since become culturally desensitized, that physical “dread” reaction is a major coup.

        Bryant’s not playing with us, she’s trying to make us understand what it might have been like to live in that time, like any good story teller would. She just happens to use clothing and colour to do it.

        In this episode, I’m puzzled by a two or three second shot–Don calling out to Dawn to get his wife on the phone, and then the camera giving us a long shot of a very large blonde woman coming towards us in the hallway, bearing a folder and looking a little insecure as she approaches–then Don’s slightly worried face to finish the wordless sequence. Are we supposed to be reminded of Betty with all her excess weight, out of place in that office?

        • Patricia Biswanger

          I wondered about that scene too.

    • VermillionSky

      I also think you are right about Bob Benson and I think the reason his story about the nurse who took care of his father sounds off compared to what he said previously to Ken is because the real reason he knows a well-mannered, Spanish, male nurse is because he is one of his closeted friends or maybe even his boyfriend. He wants to refer him to new business but can’t reveal the true reason he knows him. Just a guess.. I didn’t even think about the closeted angle until you mentioned how little sexual chemistry there is between him and Joan, even though they are spending the weekend together, but then everything just clicked.

      • FloridaLlamaLover

        That’s what I said to my sis: Manolo the RN is Bob’s special friend.

        • ZnSD

          That’s hot. Just sayin’. ;)

      • Chris

        There is a scene for this week of Joan in her pajamas sitting down unhappily. My two guesses are either her Mom has just told her something she doesn’t like (about Bob maybe?) or she is watching something disturbing on the TV (about Vietnam?)

        • Cheryl

          Democratic convention (which was not run very democratically) in Chicago. The whole world was watching.

          • Chris

            Yes! I was thinking maybe Abe would show up there covering it.

            • StephanieLovesTLo

              Good point! If so, might not be good for Abe, given all the violence that occurred during the convention.

            • Alice Teeple

              I could see him hooking up with the Yippies and causing a bunch of problems at the convention. Maybe he punches Dan Rather in the stomach.

        • Alice Teeple

          Call me bloodthirsty, but please please let it be Greg getting blown up!

          • AnneElliot

            I was sure Greg was going to get killed in Vietnam. Very surprised he’s lasted that long.

          • CommentsByKatie

            That was my thought, immediately, when I watched the preview. I hope that’s what it is! (Sorry Joanie.)

      • meritxell

        Except Bob Benson very clearly checked out the prostitute Pete’s father in law had sex with as she strode past.

        • lilyvonschtupp

          I think he was just amazed that a type of woman like that existed.

        • oekmama

          was it me or did the prostitute put on weight every time Pete told the story?

      • oekmama

        I was thinking that she could be his beard. If so, he’s the opposite of Sal, who didn’t do such a bang up job to ‘Limit exposure.’

        Bob, I like though. The friendship fits for me with the fact that he’s been trying to get into the top rings of power for a while now. He’s very patient. Remember when he would just sit in the waiting area hoping to get noticed and make an impression?

    • decormaven

      Just remember, Paul is the walrus! No, thanks for opening the lounge early. Heck, speculations have been a part of Mad Men from the get-go. I’m just going to relax and enjoy the costuming/set decoration ride.
      I’m curious- will tonight’s episode cover the NYC teacher’s strike, or more apropos of MM, the Miss America protest, where the term “bra burning” came into being (although no bras were burned at the event?”

      • StephanieLovesTLo

        Oh I vote for bra burning! Would be a good dose of the nascent women’s lib movement for MM.

        • decormaven

          Oh well, we didn’t move as far forward as I thought we would in the year. Glad they used the clip from the Democratic Convention and the riot. “The whole world is watching” hit Don harder than anything else he’s seen on the news. I think Don is pleased with the new agency’s name- he may be heading out the door now. Don is truly coming to the crux of his dilemma. For me, everything comes back to Anna’s Tarot reading, his resurrection: “you are a part of of the world, air, water, every living thing is connected to you. The only thing keeping you from being happy is the belief that you are alone.”
          “As you live, you learn things,” says Anna. I think Don sees his happiness with Megan. He may drop the agency and go in a totally new direction.

    • http://www.what-the-frock.com Dana WhatTheFrock

      Agreed. I don’t think Megan is going to be murdered. Mad Men may be less subtle and more on-the-nose than it used to be but I don’t think that they’d be SO on-the-nose as to violently kill off Megan just because there are Sharon Tate parallels in the costuming. I do think that there will be more violence this season, just because it was New York in 1968, which was a violent, turbulent time.

      I also agree with you on the Bob Benson front. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes a smarmy-but-cute climber with ambiguous sexuality who will lie and manipulate to get ahead in his career is just a smarmy-but-cute climber with ambiguous sexuality who will lie and manipulate to get ahead in his career.

      • Violina23

        I think people are reacting to the fact that POOF here’s this brand new character who came out of nowhere, and seems to be acting all shifty. I sense he still has a purpose to fulfill in the grand scheme of the show’s plot, but nothing like “corporate spy”. I suspect maybe he’ll backstab or “out” somebody in attempts to scheme his way up the chain causing fallout for one of our core characters. Perhaps he’s using Joan to get information, but I hope not… like I said on another thread, if someone needs a good solid friend right now, it’s Joan.

        • oekmama

          he did’nt quite come out of nowhere. wasn’t he in accounts or accounting first? he used to sit around in the waiting area…

          • http://robot-heart.tumblr.com heartbot

            He didn’t exist until this season.

      • Vanessa

        Thanks TLo for bringing us back down to Earth.

        The Sharon Tate connection adds to the general atmosphere of violence and fear which affected people, especially New Yorkers, at the time. The shirt, like many other symbols, serves t throw us off kilter.

    • siriuslover

      it’s 10:17 AM and I am drinking a Doctor Pepper. Does that count? I thought that the reveal about the Sharon Tate stuff was ominous, mostly because that whole story scares the hell out of me, but I can’t imagine MM being so literal. And I’m not really invested in Megan’s story. I want to get the scoop on Peggy!

    • andreawey

      wow, seeing that grinning picture of Christina at the top, I realized that we never get to see a full on smile from her…..gorgeous! Sadly, I think she may have fallen for a gay man……. been there done that……. ;)

      • Violina23

        I get the impression, whether he’s gay or not (and whether Joan knows that or not), that she doesn’t see him in a sexual way at all. I got 100% friendship vibes from them in the last episode. Kinda nice, if anyone needs a great friend (gay or otherwise), it’s Joan.

        *edit* Thinking about Bob more (which I elaborated more on another thread), I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s using Joan for self-serving purposes to get ahead in the company, but I really hope not. I want good things for Joan, damnit!

        • andreawey

          I do too, I was just falling for the come on in the preview……….she does need a real friend

        • Cheryl

          I think I’ve figured it out. We know that Joan was born in 1931, since we’ve seen her driver’s license in the first season. And I’m assuming Bob’s around 26, which puts his birthday in 1942. Now I’m not trying to spread any misinformation, but maybe Bob is hanging around Joan to spend time with his baby brother, Kevin.

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            Whut.

            • Cheryl

              Kidding! (But it could happen.)

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              (No it couldn’t.)

          • FloridaLlamaLover

            That would mean Joan gave birth at the age of 11, if you’re saying Joan is his Mom. If you’re saying Roger is his Dad, then Kevin’s his half-brother.

            • Cheryl

              Almost every season has ended with a game-changing twist. Like half the Internet, I’m just trying to figure out what that could be. Also, kidding!

            • andreawey

              I like that one….;)

      • Monabel

        Don’t we all?

      • MartyBellerMask

        Yeah… I’m pretty sure we’ve all been there. More than once. ;)

    • Violina23

      Ahhh voices of reason. Thanks TLo! I’m a child of the 80’s, so I’m far removed from a lot of the imagery and have found the style reviews fascinating all around. When the show is “shocking”, it’s rarely in a way we expect it to be — I never got the sense that Weiner & co. are trying to make social commentary about the 60’s as much as a fascinating character study on people living through the period. You can’t ignore the influence of major events/culture of the time, but it’s about characters first and foremost, not simply the era they are living through.

      I’m 37 weeks pregnant, so let’s hope the little pipsqueak stays put tonight so I can get my Mad Men Fix… already been to the hospital with one instance of false labor this week (or more accurately, labor that they were able to prevent) and I’d rather not have to repeat that until it’s the real thing! Drink lots for me, BK’s!

      • 3boysful

        Good luck and hang in there!

      • Cheryl

        Mazel tov! That’s great news, especially now that we’re on the dark and dirty dog days of summer, 1968. I will drink a celebratory glass of something bubbly for you!

      • UsedtobeEP

        Although, if you do go in tonight and it’s a slow labor you will have something to take your mind off…

    • nycfan

      If Bob seems weirdly interested in anyone, it is Pete, not Don. Anyhow, very much agree that it would be unlike the hx of costuming on the show to telegraph something so blatantly, and I thought Janie seemed taken aback by the assumptions and theories that sprung from her confirmation.

      We are a year from the Manson murders in MM world (Tate was brutally murdered in August 1969, a few days before Woodstock kicked off), but I could see Megan being pregnant by then and very freaked out by the events next season when August 1969 rolls a round, like Joan suffered from Marilyn’s death but with pregnancy paranoia on top.

      • Chris

        I didn’t find that Bob was particularly interested in Pete from the beginning, it’s just that Pete was the first one to reciprocate Bob’s overtures. We saw him try to chat up a stone faced Don in the elevator and get chewed out by a very uncharacteristically ticked off Ken. Pete was the most alienated and needy so he responded to Bob, likewise Joan was vulnerable first physically then emotionally so she accepted Bob’s friendship. I don’t feel that Pete was Bob’s “target” just that he would be friendly to the higher ups and milk whatever opportunities arose.

        • nycfan

          Good point about Bob, IMoM. I probably attach too much significance to him responding to the weak targets.

          Dare we hope this season’s death is Dr Greg?

          • Chris

            I had thought before when he joined that would happen but I should have known better. On Mad Men they usually do the opposite of what’s expected. On any other show Greg would have been a goner long before.

          • Musicologie

            I don’t think Greg is going to die in the show; that’s just too easy. Remember Joan telling Roger, “Greg dying is not a solution to our problem.” I think that line was directed at the audience, as well.

      • CommentsByKatie

        Great point about Megan; juxtaposing a pregnant life-is-tearing-apart Megan to the Sharon Tate murder would be wonderfully sad and dramatic. I could definitely see that happening; and it makes much more sense than her getting stabbed. I was definitely a Stabbed!Megan bandwagoner and you’re converting me, lol.

    • Miss WKS

      Maybe it is just foreshadowing Megan’s pregnancy with Roman Polanski….

      • FloridaLlamaLover

        Nah, she’s WAY too old for him!

      • Alice Teeple

        Sally is more of a contender for that….

        • AnneElliot

          Ewwww!!!

    • TheAmericaness

      I would hope that they would not kill off a character in reference to sickening and horrific death of a beautiful and pregnant (8 months?) young woman who begged for her life before she was axed to death merely for television entertainment. I know, I know, I’m being dramatic and obviously you’re saying that they are NOT doing that, it just bothers me that so many people out there are almost convinced that that is what is going to happen. The over-arching reach of how a presidential assassination affects a country, especially the Kennedy one, is one thing and all presidents face the possibility that some nut job is going to try and shoot them. Young celebrities getting axed to death by waifish girls gaga over some satanic moron is another. So yes, I can totally watch the show and see where they are hinting at Kennedy getting shot and be Ok with that and NOT be ok with the other. In fact, ANY of the major assassinations would not bother me as a reference. Kent State would not bother me. Sharon Tate would, even though I know it shocked everyone too. It’s different. I know many can argue otherwise. I don’t care. It would be wrong and I really hope TLo are right and since they are a goodly amount of the time, I’m not taking another valium. ;p

      • Chris

        Well they have already built an episode around the Specter murders and that was a truly horrifying crime where 7 or 8 young nurses died. Once something horrible like that happens it enters the sphere of history. The Manson murders are significant not only because of the horrible crimes and sense of paranoia they instilled in the public but because it contributed to the death of the peaceful hippy/flower child image. It was the death toll of the summer of love vibe. In fact a number of prominent publications including Rolling Stone thought Manson and his gang were being railroaded at first because they were hippies. In a social context the murders were much more than just the deaths of those poor people. It was symbolically the end of the 60’s and the beginning of a much darker time and I don’t think it’s irresponsible of Mad Men to explore that symbolically at least. That being said I certainly don’t want some creepy gore fest on the show either. That is not why most of us watch it. (And why I can’t watch the Walking Dead)

        • MK03

          Speck, not Specter. That was several decades later.

      • CommentsByKatie

        I have also been waiting in anticipation of how they will deal with Kent State. (I did a huge thesis project on it, so it’s on my mind.) So many things happened in 1969-1970; how will they cram it all in? I can’t wait for next season.

    • http://hotmesshousewife.blogspot.com/ Hot Mess Housewife

      I almost bought into the hysteria of the Megan Draper/Sharon Tate theories until someone pointed out that the star on the t-shirt evokes the Vietnam flag, so I took it as that was more of the connection than MEGAN’S GONNA DIE OMG.

      • Cheryl

        I immediately thought of the Macy’s star logo, so I thought it meant that Megan would go shopping the next day at Macy’s. I guess we’ll find out tonight.

        • JulieTy

          Me too! My first thought was, “Macy’s?!”

          • judybrowni

            Megan wouldn’t shop at Macy’s.

            Bloomingdale’s, sure. But not Macy’s. (I lived in New York in the early ’70s and recognize the difference in the two stores and the styles they offered.)

            Besides, Janie Bryant has already tweeted that she referenced that T, from a famous shot of Sharon Tate. (Who I doubt shopped at Macy’s, either.

        • NDC_IPCentral

          I believe that the star logo for Macy’s is newer than 45 years ago, but … I could be wrong, I’m just trying to recollect when the star became prominent, and I’m thinking in the past 10-15 years.

          • Cheryl
          • Cheryl

            I posted a link that is awaiting moderation. According to this article, from the very beginning.

            • NDC_IPCentral

              Thanks for the history – my internet connection today is so intermittent that research is just not possible.

      • Levedi

        Yes! My reaction to the star was “ooh, communist symbol.” If Don’s the epitome of capitalist America and his wife is starting to (perhaps unwittingly?) wear Communist colors and symbols, doesn’t this just reinforce the arc they’re on in which their marriage is doomed?

        • snarkykitten

          her father is a socialist too, yes?

      • MartyBellerMask

        Speaking to my point of reference, the star immediately made me think of Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins.

      • not_Bridget

        Red Star = Communism.

        Well, now it mean’s Macy’s. (How much stuff at Macy’s is made in China?)

    • NDC_IPCentral

      Thanks for the thorough commentary-addendum to last week’s costuming – it always adds to my appreciation of the episodes.

      A bit too early in the day for me to jettison chores in favor of lolly-gagging with a cold drink (iced coffee IS right at hand in this heat) and musing about tonight’s show. Only 4, including tonight, to go!

      How well I remember 1968 – the year I graduated from prep school and started college – the assassinations, the change, the upheaval, the uncertainty. Tonight’s progression (I haven’t looked at the preview yet) will be interesting, I that I have no doubt.

      • Cheryl

        I started college in 1967, on suburban Long Island, so yes, this year is filled with very familiar events. I can vividly recall where I was during the NYEve episode, the MLK episode, etc. I had so many cute dresses at that time, that I couldn’t stand to assign to the rag bag, or give away, so I’ve still got about 20 outfits from 1968 in my closet. (I still have my 1969 wedding dress, too; I’d love to see someone on the show have a formal wedding. Maybe Dawn?)

    • J. L. A.

      At first I bought into the hype, but it seems more and more ridiculous and I’d be disappointed if Megan got murdered. I now think it means they’ll be moving to California this year. Megan would be happy to leave her job after last week and the agency could expand. I’m hoping something will happen tonight (Tale of Two Cities) that will open the door for the firm to go bicoastal.

      • Chris

        There were some spoiler pictures TLO and some places posted before the season started that showed Don, Roger and Harry out in a convertible in what was supposed to be 60’s California. Maybe they are just on a business trip or maybe it’s the beginnings of a West coast agency.

        • Cheryl

          I didn’t realize we haven’t seen those yet. I had assumed they’d be in the same episode as the Hawaii scenes, but consulting a map I find that although both of those places are west of New York, they are not, in fact, the same place. I would hate it if they left New York, though, because NYC is so much a part of the show, and Don is so much “of the city.” I can’t see him being happy in a place that’s always sunny.

          • Chris

            I’m thinking it may be on tonight’s show that Don and Roger go to CA. In the preview clip aren’t they anxious to get going somewhere after the partner’s meeting? I’m sure it’s CA because of the background of the pictures with the palm trees and there was one of Don in front of a hotel called “Del Mar”.

            • J. L. A.

              Beat me to it!

        • StephanieLovesTLo

          Perfect time to open a west coast office and send Harry there, and hopefully we never see him again!

          • snarkykitten

            Harry can fall into the ocean for all I care

        • J. L. A.

          I remember those. And in the previews for tonight, Roger and Don have a flight to catch. I also heard an interview with Matthew Weiner and he said something along the lines of this season ending in a “where can you go from here” place. Like audiences would be baffled at how the 7th season could go. Not sure what it meant, but I like the idea of them moving to California. Don’s always felt better out there and it would be interesting to see it play out and how the characters react.

    • TropiCarla

      Hooray for the T Lo TVstravaganza!

      RE: Mad Men – I’d trust my Blog Daddies’ instincts over any other commentary, any day, any time. Bob Benson makes me giggle, and I’m looking to see how/when Peggy gets her shit together.

      RE: GoT – SO much good stuff going on here. I hope they show Khaleesi with her new boy-toy. He’s no Drogo, but he certainly seems willing. He certainly knows how to surprise a girl – those heads in the bag were amazing. lol

      RE: Orphan Black – I only caught a couple episodes before the season finale, but it stil packed a punch. That is some excellent TV and that actress (Tatiana Maslany) is a master of her craft. BBC America continues to bring the ruckus.

    • Luneowl

      Between Mad Men, GoT and the season premier of the Venture Brothers, this is great night to be a couch potato!

    • Chris

      I agree that Megan probably won’t be the victim of violence this season but I do feel something is building and it will probably be directed at a woman. There has been a long running theme of women in fear/danger over the past two seasons that I think has to reach a culmination in some dark event. (Don’s fear of Megan’s abduction in Far Away Places, his “strangling” his old girlfriend, Sally and Pauline with the knife and fear of the Specter murders, Megan afraid of the park,Sally and Ida’s encounter, Betty Pauline and Sally in the car, Peggy terrorized in her own home). It may be Sylvia, who is an “expendable” character or it may be a more minor but not fatal violence against a series regular. I have even thought there may be some significance to the new SCDP stairway. Pete fell on it, Don seemed paralyzed on it and Rogers’s daughter was afraid for her son when he was on it. Or maybe I have just been watching Mad Men so long everything is starting to be symbolic.

      • siriuslover

        I started reading way too much into the imagery last week, and when someone said Sharon Tate was stabbed 16 times, I thought, “the Rosens live on the 16th floor” and we have been constantly drawn to the numbers of the elevator since the characters were introduced. That’s about as “out there” a theory I can muster.

      • snarkykitten

        speaking of Sally, can you imagine what horrors Grandma Francis put in her head while Bobby & co. were at camp?

      • lilyvonschtupp

        I’m not with the murder angle on Megan. I think she will just leave Don and move to California.

    • Holly

      Thanks Tom and Lorenzo for the always brilliant commentary and analysis! It’s my first time here and it’s been so much fun to read all the Mad Style pieces back to back. I also don’t think Megan is going to literally die, but her character on the show is pretty much dead. Her relationship with Don is dead, she lost the baby she was carrying and now it seems like she is “fighting for her life” on that show she’s on. There is a lot of “death” surrounding her currently, so all the fuss about the shirt clicked for me in that sense. I watched last week’s episode again last night and it was interesting that Megan’s scenes followed Abe’s (the scene where Peggy finds Abe with the cop in their apartment, and the scene where Abe is in the ambulance) and yes, as T and L pointed out, they were in similar looks. There are some obvious parallels between these two characters, after all, isn’t Peggy supposed to be the female Don Draper?? So, as such it seems like their partners are ending up with similar fates.

    • http://flavors.me/_faith Faith Chihil

      My “outrageous” Bob Benson theory is that he is actually a window washer named J. Pierrepont Finch who found an interesting book on successful business behaviors.

      • JulieTy

        Love that. Who hired him, anyway? He’s in accounts, and Roger has no idea what his name is.
        Maybe he’s investigating the whereabouts of Dick Whitman . . .

        • Cheryl

          And Ken doesn’t like him very much, so it wouldn’t have been him. Did we ever see Pete’s first scene with Bob? Would he have hired him? Maybe Bert Cooper?

          • Laylalola

            Lane? We know it wasn’t Joan.

      • MK03

        I am SO pissed that the show hasn’t made a reference to that yet. Robert Morse IS J. Pierrepont Fince, for God’s sake!!

        • http://flavors.me/_faith Faith Chihil

          Right?! Plus, the movie version would have come out already in 1967, I think. I had hope when Bob mentioned he’d put his coat on his chair to make the others think he was still there. Maybe holding two coffees is his version of littering his desk with cigarette butts.

    • Judy_J

      My BB theory…Bob learns all he can about the wonderful world of advertising and marketing, then goes on to become the founder of Starbuck’s.

    • ellabob

      Thanks for turning me on to Orphan Black… love it

    • etselec

      I’m concerned from that preview that Joan might be telling Peggy that she’s engaged to Bob. I hope she’s smiling for some other reason.

      • not_Bridget

        Joan thought her meeting with the Avon guy was a blind date. Would she be dating if she had a new hubbie lined up?

        • etselec

          Of course you realize I wrote this before the episode aired…

    • appliquer

      I’m in the midst of a marathon of Orphan Black – love it! Thanks for the recommendation. Great post on the use of costuming on MM. I agree totally with all your points.

    • amyfromnj

      My feeling all season is that Megan is going to catch Don red handed.

    • jeanzhane

      You’re probably right on Megan. Given MM’s obsession with secrecy, I highly doubt Janie would’ve confirmed the Sharon Tate thing if Megan actually met such a literally similar fate.

      • CommentsByKatie

        Great point! I’m feeling silly now for getting so hysterical about Sharon Tate / Megan. Still, whatever the connection works out to be, it’s wonderful to be so excited about a television show again. Getting the Internet in a wild tizzy over a mysterious t-shirt reference = a high quality production.

    • netdivaweb

      Thank you for this. I very much agree. I do think there will be death in this season, but that’s because all the other things have been pointing to it (and we regularly have had deaths in Mad Men – random and otherwise) so to not to have another besides Roger’s mother would be unusual. I have been shaking my head and laughing at all the articles predicting a definite death for Megan.

      I thought the juxtaposition of Sharon Tate wardrobe with Megan was another reference, like Dante, like stabbings. Symbolic and not literal.

      • StephanieLovesTLo

        Abe and Sylvia are both expendable characters now, so perhaps one of them meets his or her maker?

        • snarkykitten

          I think it would be “historically” more accurate for Abe to meet his end, what with him trying to be the up & coming reporter of the movement, but it would be more MM style for Sylvia to have a heart attack or something

          • AnneElliot

            I vote for Paul Kinsey.

    • YourBaloneyDontGotNoSecondName

      “many miles away, something crawls to the surface of a dark scottish loch”

    • M. H. Leader

      If Megan is involved in death, I think it may be the death of her marriage. Don seems bent on throwing away a woman who genuinely loves him and wants their marriage to succeed. Like Betty said, poor girl has no idea…

      • CommentsByKatie

        Maybe their marriage will violently implode (Megan finds him cheating, or a screaming match, or he hits her, etc) in an episode paralleling the Sharon Tate murder? I think you are right, it will be more metaphorical than literal.

      • not_Bridget

        What did he do this week? He disagreed with Megan about Chicago. And possibly had a bit of lust in his heart in LA. Nothing really bad.

        The divorce laws in New York State haven’t changed since Betty left him. Proving adultery is the only way to get a divorce in the state. If both partners agree, one of them can go to Reno. The Draper marriage can’t just fade away–it will take something serious.

        Or maybe Megan will just get an opportunity Out West…

    • MartyBellerMask

      Y’all are great. For as much as MAD MEN gets discussed online, it amazes me that few bloggers seem to “get” it in the way TLo does.

      • Perditax

        That’s the only problem with TLo’s recaps, other peoples just fade in comparison!

    • rainwood1

      Yay! The T Lounge is a bar I’ve actually been in before!!

      This weekend has been kind of a downer and I’m hoping that MM isn’t, but the previews don’t suggest happiness is going to prevail. Plus, 1968 really was a terrible year. I was 14, not particularly politically aware and definitely not politically active and even I wondered if the country was going to fall apart. The two assassinations, the riots, the war, LBJ deciding not to run. It was all so unsettling.

      My perception of the times was that Sharon Tate became a much bigger part of the culture after she died than she ever was during her life. I’d never heard of her before the Manson murders, and Valley of the Dolls was her only movie of note and even it was considered pretty bad when released. If she’s an icon, it’s only because she was murdered in such a terrible and bizarre fashion. Liz Taylor, on the other hand, was everywhere in the media. Grace Kelly too.

      • another_laura

        I grew up in the 60s, too. Being a kid I didn’t know it was unusually horrific, but with hindsight, sheesh. The actual biggest thing in my life was the Beatles, of course, but well, there was Vietnam on the TV every night, the Watts riots (I grew up in LA), the Kennedy assassinations, MLK, the Manson murders, topped off by Richard Nixon/Henry Kissinger. The 60s weren’t over until we left Vietnam and by then we had also had the drug deaths of Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix and Jim Morrison, and we can’t leave out Kent State. No wonder there was a big 1950s nostalgia kick in the early 1970s, who could take it anymore?

      • Laylalola

        Many years ago, sometime in the late 70s or early 80s, when I was a preteen asking my parents about Sharon Tate and how famous she was (who she would have been like for me to compare her to), they said something like: She was pretty much a Suzanne Sommers type when she was alive. I know that’s not really a completely accurate equating of the type of fame she had pre-murder but I’ve always remembered it for some reason.

    • Rand Ortega

      Please forgive me for cutting in & going off topic, BK’s & PUF’s but I just got wind Matt Smith is leaving Dr. Who. Does anyone have more info on this? I only got a standard release from Deadline Hollywood. Thanx.

      • another_laura

        The BBC has posted this news and they’re awfully reliable.

      • MilaXX

        That’s all the info so far. He’s doing the 50th special and then he’s done.

        • Rand Ortega

          Thanx, Mila. I was hoping the clever folks here on TLo might have a few more tibdits ’cause I’m coming up w/ goose eggs. Wow. I must say I’m quite shocked & sad about this. I thought MS be around for at least 2 more series. But he’s a young man at the height of his talents, best take advantage of what DW has brought him now. I hope Moffat & Co. take this opportunity to bring DW further into the 21st century by hiring my friend Colin Salmon (Dr. Moon from “Silence In The Library”, “Arrow” & “Die Another Day”) as the next Doctor.

          • MilaXX

            I think it would be nice to have a POC as the Doctor, but I can’t say I like Colin as the next Doctor. I’m also not liking Idris Elba either. I prefer when the Doctor’s are little known. Colin is too much of a “hey, it’s that guy.”

            • Rand Ortega

              I think Idris, hot as he is, is too known. What about Chiwetel Ejiofor? What about a woman Doctor? Like HBC? Thandi Newton? Kate Beckinsale? Who’s the hot Brit actress these days that people would accept as the next/new Dr.?

            • MilaXX

              Now him I would like. Not sure I’m ready for a female Doctor. I’m not even sure it’s needed.

            • Rand Ortega

              I didn’t think I was , either, but considering how much I adore River Song & thrilled to her kicking serious ass, I think w/ the right candidate I would love it. A cute boy companion like Thomas Sangster from “Love Actually”? Yum.

            • MilaXX

              See I wonder if coming on the heels of River if we the viewers are ready for a female Doctor or if it would invite loads of River Song was so great comparisons. I am however, completely over companions as love interest, flirts or pining for the Doctor to love them. I just want smart, witty companions.

    • UsedtobeEP

      Something is building, but how many episodes are left? We need to be next-to-last before it’s time for another death or anything as shocking as that. Somehow, I didn’t rate Peggy stabbing Abe as very high on the lawnmower scale—I know I am in the vast minority here. I guess I have been waiting for something to happen to him for a while. I didn’t expect her to be the one to do it, but it’s been time for him to leave for a while now. No offense, Abe, but your Meathead mustache was getting old.

      • Chris

        Exactly, he was turning into Mike Stivic.

      • Cheryl

        Tonight is Episode 10, there are three more to go. The finale will be on June 23. (But don’t forget there’s another 13 to go before the show ends for good. So even though this season will be over, they will still hold some mysteries in abeyance.)

        • siriuslover

          and Matt Weiner said in an interview that people are fooling themselves if they think the show will end on anything but an ambiguous note…

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            I don’t know where or how people ever got the idea that Mad Men was a show full of mysteries that need to be solved or answered.

            • Chris

              Well it’s not CSI or one of those shows, but all along MW has treated many aspects of MM like solving mysteries-offering clues that aren’t understood at first or misleading “information.” Every bit of information about Don Draper for several seasons was like getting pieces of a mystery novel (who is he calling in California? He was married before?) Likewise with Peggy and her baby it was a while into the second season before I pieced together what happened after being confused (intentionally) by seeing her sister’s baby and wondering if I missed something. The big questions have always been “How does Don end up and where? How about Peggy?” I think those are the “big ambiguities” people are probably talking about.

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              I think there’s a difference between doling out information slowly and offering up mysteries to be solved. We knew the majority of Don’s backstory by the end of Season 1 and we knew what had happened to Peggy’s baby by the end of season 2.

            • Chris

              I think the little “clues” or foreshadowing about Lane’s suicide people noticed after the fact is causing many people (myself included) to examine things at a level they hadn’t before. Perhaps it is overkill trying to read “clues” that may or may not be there this season.

            • Laylalola

              Well in fairness, when it’s suicide it’s pretty classic for people to see clues after the fact and wonder.

            • not_Bridget

              But some people still don’t get it…

            • chowwander

              People miss the Twin Peaks/LOST (and of course The Prisoner) aspect and I think currently there’s nothing out there that really brings that mystique right now, so folks apply it desperately to any new (or existing) show that has nuance and rich characterization.

            • MartyBellerMask

              Although I am fairly certain David Lynch was just making up TWIN PEAKS as he went along.

            • siriuslover

              I know, right?!?

          • Selkiechick

            To quote Mad Men’s lead-in show… “If you think this story has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

    • Eric Stott

      I’m not one to ask that Sal be shoehorned back into the plot, but the Stonewall Riots are coming up in 1969. Sal’s character seemed far too conservative to be an activist, but it could be very plausible for him to be caught up as a patron having a quiet drink.

      • Chris

        I’ve always thought it was odd no one ever mentioned Sal again or said they talked to him, heard he joined another firm etc. We have seen Duck Philips, Freddy Rumson, Smitty (?), Burt Peterson and Paul all show up in the SCDP orbit after being fired/left behind. It’s not inconceivable they would run across Sal at a pitch meeting (Stan goes) in the hall etc. Unless we are to assume he had no friends at the firm and just completely dropped out of sight after being fired. He was obviously very talented and experienced so did he have a nervous breakdown, move? It just seems Matthew Weiner deliberately chose to never to pick up any part of his story despite there being very logical ways of someone crossing paths with him again.

        • mollypop

          It’s possible there was some bad blood with the actor who played Sal (Bryan Batt). I was a little taken aback by a Matthew Weiner interview I read in which he explained that he will not be revisiting the Sal storyline at all; his explanation seemed terse and impatient, as if he didn’t want to address it at all.

          • Alice Teeple

            That could also just be Weiner being sick and tired of people constantly asking “When is Sal coming back?” or “God, I miss Sal.”

            • mollypop

              That’s probably more realistic.

          • Munchkn

            I’ve read that there was some bad blood with one former cast member, but I don’t know who it was.

        • http://darlinglola.blogspot.com Laura K

          I always imagine that Sal found work doing set design for Broadway shows. He worked on the late-60s run of “Fiddler on the Roof” and befriended Bette Midler.

          • MartyBellerMask

            Frankly, I think the “imagines” are a lot more fun than what would’ve been his reality. It’s actually probably pretty depressing and I’d rather not see that. :(
            So yeah, let’s all imagine he’s doing something fabulous and be glad they’re not bringing him back. Because it’s never good.

    • bxbourgie

      I thought the same thing about the promo for tonight’s episode. The most obvious seems to be that Joan and Bob Benson seem to be defining their relationship, and it looks like something may happen to Greg while he’s in Vietnam.

    • pattycap11

      wanted to just say i don’t think the sirens and violence emphasis are overdone; nyc’s crime rate used to be about 5 times as high as it is now, i believe, and it was that way for a long time, so sadly, that would be the appropriate background noise of the times esp. if you have a balcony…

    • swiss_miss

      I would love nothing more than a TLo Game of Thrones (fashion) recap but know that this isn’t going to happen, but am often so amazed at all the interesting & insightful things other bitter kitttens comment on Mad Men posts, I would like to ask you all for your Game of Thrones thoughts, especially fashion & style related (I would love some comments on architecture!) but also otherwise.

      • MilaXX

        There was a comment TLo made about the costuming in a post somewhere and I forgot to save. I wanted to rewatch and look for those points. I haven’t read the books and I’m not sure I want to make the investment.

    • Josefina Madariaga Suárez

      My prediction is that Don and Megan are getting divorced this season.

    • D J H

      Oh, come on. Bob is the secret love child of Megan’s assassin, as well as being an alter-ego of Glen Bishop. I may have had one too many martinis, though.

    • littlemissstrange

      On the subject of Game of Thrones: those of you GoT fans who have not read the books, you are in for some surprises tonight. Some SERIOUS shit is gonna go down. I will say no more. But I can’t wait to see everyone’s reactions. :D

      And on the subject of Mad Men, can’t wait to see what’s gonna happen with Joan (and Bob… I’m with TLo on the Secret Gay theory). And everyone else of course but especially Joan and Bob.

      I also think if Bob really is gay, he might have a thing for Pete; he seemed really interested in what Joan had to say about Pete, and there was something about that scene between him and Pete last week… and call me crazy but I would love to see Pete and Bob together. I have a thing for Pete though. Which not many people seem to share….

      • J. L. A.

        GOT: Are you sure it’s happening tonight? The previews didn’t suggest it but it seems the rumors are going around.

        • littlemissstrange

          For sure, it is happening tonight. The episode’s title is “The Rains of Castamere.” And it’s pretty obvious from the summary…

          • J. L. A.

            Ah, I never remember to read the summaries

      • MartyBellerMask

        I like your picture. :)

        • littlemissstrange

          Thank you much! I don’t know where I found it, but I don’t know what my life would be without it.

    • lilyvonschtupp

      I think that with Abe actually gone, there’s not going to be much mention of the Chi Democratic Convention.

      • lilyvonschtupp

        I stand utterly corrected.

    • littlemissstrange

      Can I also just say that this bar is fabulous and I want to live in it.

    • snarkykitten

      if someone must die this season, I hope it’s someone I don’t like. I’m still a bit sad about Lane’s death! (also because the juxtaposition of Sally’s “womanhood” was so stupid. I hate that trope sfm)

    • lilyvonschtupp

      One thing about the shirt: I always thought the star shirt as a symbol of a revolution. The people I know who have that shirt also wear red stars on vintage army jackets, or wear t-shirts of Che Guevara

      • Alice Teeple

        We’ve all been fooled, everyone! The shirt’s actually been foreshadowing Pete landing the lucrative Red Star Yeast account! Weiner strikes again!

        • Musicologie

          Won’t that cause a conflict with Fleischmann’s? Drama!

          • Munchkn

            The yeast and the margarine company are completely different.

        • lilyvonschtupp

          HA!

    • Orange Girl

      I don’t want the previews to function as actual previews! The vagueness makes them hilarious and it’s so totally Mad Men now.

    • Guest

      This is the first season of Mad Men I’ve watched while it currently airs- I LOVE reading all of TLo’s blogs!

      I just checked out the first season of GoT’s because it seems like everybody who’s ANYBODY pregames on GoT and ends with a MM chaser ;)

    • ZnSD

      So nice to have an Orphan Black shout-out! The Hubs and I are loving Orphan Black ever since we saw the premiere at Wonder-Con this Spring. It’s totally compelling and the big 3 networks should take notes on how a good action soap opera series is done. Love your critique of the Sharon/Megan T-shirt explosion. I just think she’s gonna get pregnant, just like Sharon did, but I’m just a tv watcher, what do I know? Can’t wait to see MM tonight! XO from San Diego.

    • Hoffa_w_HerHead

      This is the first season of Mad Men I’ve watched while it currently airs- I LOVE reading all of TLo’s blogs and all the insightful posts!
      I just checked out the first season of GoT’s because it seems like everybody who’s ANYBODY pregames on GoT and ends with a MM chaser ;)

      Also, Kerinan Shipka is definitely Young Actress of the Year!

    • Qitkat

      Yay, Orphan Black! I actually binged in two days the first 9 episodes, whew!, very intense, so that I could watch the finale live. Amazing actress, and a fascinating storyline. Between that and The Americans, and the final season of MM, early/mid 2014 TV will be worth the wait, but still a long ways off.

      Thank God I am not so wound up in MM, as a BK, my primary source has been TLo for years, as I had no idea the internet exploded over Megan’s T shirt. As for Bob, I think that he may be gay, but is no spy. I’m just taking each episode as it comes. But I agree with other BK’s that some kind of more serious violence will touch this group of people personally.

      • Alice Teeple

        (What’s a BK? I keep seeing that term and thinking it means Burger King. Sorry for not knowing!)

        • Qitkat

          Bitter Kitten. The nickname for us commenters. Goes back a few years. I can’t remember who used it first. Tom and Lorenzo may have coined it. They have cats, as do a lot of us, and it evolved naturally.

          • Alice Teeple

            Love it! I confess I actually looked it up in Urban Dictionary because I thought it was another acronym. I dig the term.

            • Qitkat

              Me too. My husband actually asks me *what are the Bitter Kittens saying today?* LOL

    • Pennymac

      Uncles and fellow BKs! My laptop crossed the rainbow bridge this morning. I’m lounging from my phone. I’m not sure how this will work, but know that if I’m not actively posting, I’m passively lurking!

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      HERE FOR THIS.

    • Judy_J

      Bob Benson in the recap!

    • alula_auburn

      I literally just watched my DVR-ed Orphan Black! (I was a Good Daughter making fancy birthday dinner yesterday.)
      I feel kind of silly for not pairing it with Mad Men before.

    • Sally

      I hate the balcony. It makes me nervous.

    • PastryGoddess

      HI Kittens. I’ve just come out of the Longform wormhole.

    • MilaXX

      Orphan Black was all kinds of awesome. I must have been so caught up in that finale that I missed the Mad Men kerfluffle. Anyhoo, I don’t trust Bob. He may be a butt kissing ladder climber, but I don’t think he’s Don secret child or some such. I also don’t think the show will end with Don falling or jumping out the window like in the opening credits.

      It’s hot so I made frozen sangria slushies. Dinner is veggie chorizo in whole wheat pita, cause I can’t even look at the stove.

      • alula_auburn

        huh, I was so tired I just had cereal for dinner. But sangria slushies sound AMAZING.

        • MilaXX

          Bad use of the nutra bullet. 1 cup lemonade+fruit of 2 orange, 1 lemon, 1 lime and cheap white wine. Blend and freeze. It’s soooooo good!

      • Denise Plank

        I don’t even like drinking, and that sounds great. 102 right now.

    • PastryGoddess

      Look at Roger giving a pep talk

      • alula_auburn

        “our biggest challenge is to not get syphillis!”

        words to live by.

    • PastryGoddess

      Ginsberg is getting FIESTY!

    • PastryGoddess

      Bobby’s charm is wearing off

    • Crystal

      Roger looks so damn adorable in his glasses.

      Also, just hush Ginsberg. You stabbed Stan. You don’t get to talk anymore.

      hahahaha WHAT ARE YOU ALWAYS DOING HERE, GO BACK UPSTAIRS!

      • Alice Teeple

        I loved Roger’s glasses! They looked great on him!

    • PastryGoddess

      Jim I think you’re upset

    • MisScarlett

      “Our biggest challenge is not getting syphilis.” I heart you, Roger Stirling.

      • Crystal

        I choked a little on my gin. I adore that man. I was so glad he didn’t have a heart attack after all that speed.

        • MisScarlett

          Totally concur… He’s always been one of my favorites.
          PS: I snorted on my wine. Virtual cheers to your tumbler glass. We would do the SCDP folks proud :)

          • Crystal

            Yes we would. I want to host a Mad Men party where we marathon the show all day while drinking at 8am lol

    • MilaXX

      You know, I forgot I used to like Harry Hamlin as an actor back in his LA Law days.

    • PastryGoddess

      You can do it Joanie!

      • Lisa_Co

        Joanie didn’t really know what to say when the Avon guy asked “What do you do there?”. We know she’s a partner but what does she DO other than deal with secretaries alot (despite leaving off the pen necklace).i guess she does Lane’s job (the books) but I don’t think Lane was a partner.

        • marishka1

          Layne was the Sterling Cooper Draper PRYCE part.

    • PastryGoddess

      You took it a bridge too far Bobby

    • alula_auburn

      yay Joanie and Peggy! Together in action.

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        I know! Loving it.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Peggy, are you still vying for Ted? Gorl.

      • lilyvonschtupp

        For goodness sakes, the man played her three times and she STILL doesn’t get it.

      • Alice Teeple

        I didn’t get that. She certainly didn’t give him the vamp treatment. She did know how Ted would handle the business, and figured he would probably be encouraging of Joan. To be fair, they both swooped in on Ted at a hectic time in the middle of a hallway.

    • PastryGoddess

      I fucking hate Pete Campbell sometimes

    • Xen

      Did anyone else get weepy when Joan empowered herself to pick up that check?

      • Sally

        I did.

      • Crystal

        I squealed and clapped.

    • MilaXX

      Pete is going to screw this up badly. Joan and Peggy should have done the meet and deal.

      • sekushinonyanko

        I don’t know about this. I know Pete likes Joan, but I also know Pete’s a bonanza of crazy lately.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Ugh no! I wanted Joanie to have a chance to shine :( But she does look spectacular in that floral.

    • Guest

      Help me! Missed the part from G shouting at C, to Bob looking down a corridor. What happened in the gap?!

    • Judy_J

      Pete can’t resist showing his butt.

    • Crystal

      GOD I WANT TO SLAP THE SHIT OUT OF PETE CAMPBELL.

      • PastryGoddess

        +1

        • Crystal

          In record time, too. Usually after the initial “I hate him” response to seeing his face, it takes a little longer to get to the desire to physically harm him.

      • Sally

        Who doesn’t? He’s gonna screw it up.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Must break for Popcorn! Heh. I’m very hopeful that we’ll get to see some Bob Benson sketchiness in this ep, however. Did anyone also looooove (sarcasm) how they made it seem like Joan was getting giggly over Bob in the previews? Oh AMC, you and your misleading, completely non-informative commercials.

      • Crystal

        I was SO GLAD that 1) she wasn’t giggling over Bob and 2) She was giggling over her career! With Peggy! “It wasn’t a date, it was better!”

        Yea girl!

        • Mani @ Iz and Oz

          I know! Get it!

    • PastryGoddess

      Why do I think that Joan will come in and save the day

      • OrigamiRose

        I am hoping for that…

        • PastryGoddess

          I’m going to drink to that

          • OrigamiRose

            *raises glass*

            Your av always makes me want to cuddle my cat, by the way :)

        • Lisa_Co

          I don’t know. She’s a junior partner and openly disregarding office protocol/politics. If Peggy thinks it’s a bad idea to diss Pete it probably is.

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Definitely crossing my fingers for that to happen.

    • bxbourgie

      I can’t EVEN with Pete. But that was what was happening in the late 60s. Like what do we need women for, the MEN close the deals. I hope they get to that meeting and dude’s all “Where’s Joan?”

      • sekushinonyanko

        I get the general idea of not putting people that are not accounts, though. Pryce fucking it up with Jaguar is how Joan wound up having to fuck that guy to begin with.

        • Alice Teeple

          Agreed. He knew where Joan’s charm would be the most valuable, in “showing him around.” I don’t think he was deliberately trying to undermine her; for him it was business as usual, and he underestimated how much Joan wanted to get her claws into that account to make herself the heroine. That isn’t how the business works.

    • M. H. Leader

      Huh…Democratic convention was at the end of August 1968. Sharon Tate murder was August 9. . I thought Don & Co. were headed straight into a party associated with the murders…I don’t know. Still have a really bad feeling about this CA trip!

      • Sally

        Manson murders are in 1969.

      • Lisa_Co

        I was 12 and not allowed to watch TV (even news) on weekdays. Summers were different. I remember vacationing on Cape Cod with my parents and my best friend’s family. We were glued to the news and how the police were handling the protests.

        Things are a little more enlightened now but not enough. Although NYC police are trained to handle protests I’ve been in several (Republican 2008 convention is one example) where the vast numbers of police, their obvious display of weaponry etc. was intimidating and provocative at the same time.

      • not_Bridget

        I think the Sharon Tate “theme” is meant to give us bad feelings, just as many people were having that summer. (And, as TLo said, to remind us of a very 60’s type of glamour.) I doubt it’s a real prediction…

    • PastryGoddess

      lookee pink vodka for the ladies

      • OrigamiRose

        Diet Vodka! Because we’re always calorie-conscious!

    • Damien W

      “It will shock you how much this never happened.” — Man, that one line reminds me of why this show pulled me in from the start.

    • PastryGoddess

      Joanie has such a soft heart

    • PastryGoddess

      Looked who’s dressed and who’s in Pajamas

    • Crystal

      I love that someone finally called Bob out for lurking around like a creepster. “Go back upstairs!”

    • Judy_J

      Don’s establishment, Megan’s not.

      • PastryGoddess

        was that a shovel to my head

        • Crystal

          It was. You have a concussion now.

    • Damien W

      “On the bright side, Conrad Hilton is probably in that hotel right now.” Fierce!

      • lilyvonschtupp

        I’d rather it been Paris Hilton.

    • EveEve

      No “I love you” ?

    • Crystal

      JOAN IS OUT FOR BLOOD. YASSSSSSSSS.

    • PastryGoddess

      Go Joanie!!!!

    • Sally

      This is gonna be great!

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      BITING MY FINGERS HOPING THIS GUY ISN’T A SEXIST PIG

      • alula_auburn

        I’m weirdly encouraged that he ordered tomato juice and coffee.

        • Mani @ Iz and Oz

          Haha, here’s to hoping.

      • Crystal

        I’m stressin. I have moved on from gin to bourbon. Shit just got real.

        • PastryGoddess

          You can hand me that gin. the wine isn’t cutting it now

          • Crystal

            Come get some, we have to drink through this stress. WE STILL HAVE A HALF HOUR LEFT GUYS.

        • Mani @ Iz and Oz

          It looks positive so far – let’s hope that’s sustained!

      • MilaXX

        He may be, but Joan clearly has him charmed.

    • OrigamiRose

      Go Joan! Rare is it for me to cheerlead someone on a show like this…

      • MilaXX

        woops, wrong post

    • PastryGoddess

      Dynamic Duo!!….

    • MilaXX

      You go Joan!

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Go girls!! x

    • Sally

      Yes, Joan??

    • AutumnInNY

      Atta girl Joanie!

    • Crystal

      Wow. This man is upset.

    • PastryGoddess

      Well this isn’t going to plan

    • Damien W

      Speaking of Conrad Hilton — looks like we’ve got a new one.

      • Perditax

        Woop de doop

    • sekushinonyanko

      “We’re sorry your last girlfriend hurt you.” I feel like that is officially my line for anyone that’s giving me extra bitter sauce.

    • Damien W

      John Slattery needs an Emmy — acting, directing, I don’t care which at this point. It’s just wrong. (Almost as wrong as Jon Hamm still being empty-handed as well)

    • AutumnInNY

      “We’re sorry your last girlfriend hurt you”….go Roger.
      Cranky LA guys.

    • PastryGoddess

      Diety love Roger Fucking Sterling

    • Judy_J

      I lived on Carnation Instant Breakfast when I was in high school.

      • Damien W

        I had it for breakfast every morning as a kid. It’s probably what kept me chubby until senior year of high school, lol.

    • Perditax

      Oh no, please be friends!

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        I KNOW! I went from this :D to this D: WAY too quickly. I hope Pegs comes around.

    • MilaXX

      whoa, Peggy!

    • PastryGoddess

      At least Joan looks fabulous when she’s in a rage

    • Damien W

      Damn, the flip side of their relationship comes up this week. It’s really love/hate with Joanie/Peggy.

      • Perditax

        They’re at their best when quietly exchanging supportive glances

    • MilaXX

      of course Bob listens to affirmations

    • Crystal

      Peggy. Girl. You know I love ya. But that was a bitch move.

      • MilaXX

        straight up

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Seriously.

      • lilyvonschtupp

        No doubt.

    • sekushinonyanko

      Peggy needs to get out from under Ted’s skirts now. Sorry Pegs, you can’t always have your boyfriend at pitches now that you’re a big girl.

    • alula_auburn

      hee hee hee, Stan the mother hen!

    • PastryGoddess

      Poor Stan

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      He’s talking to Gins like a little boy … this is … cute and odd. Very confused right now.

    • PastryGoddess

      Did Bob just give away his M,O,

      • sekushinonyanko

        Bob’s kind of shaping up to be a badass today.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Bob deliberately avoiding the question. Hmm.

      But Jesus Gins, slap some duct tape over that trap once in a while!

    • Damien W

      This scene seems a little too contrived — suddenly GInsberg is having a stagefright meltdown, and SuperBob comes in to save the day?

      “Tell me the truth, are you a homo?” HAHA! Scene saved.

      • sekushinonyanko

        Well he did just try to tell Cutler off and get reminder that he’s cashing the man’s checks and can feel free to STFU at any point. I think that was showing that smackdown really got under his skin and did some damage.

        • not_Bridget

          Watching the police riot in Chicago probably had an effect on him, too. Especially when most of his family was killed by the Nazis.

      • Musicologie

        That’s more than a stage fright meltdown. Ginnsburg’s talking about things being beamed into his head–is he having a schizophrenic episode?

        • Damien W

          In all honesty, all I was thinking at the time was, “So…does Ginsberg hope Bob’s a homo?”

        • Alice Teeple

          After this episode, I find Ginsberg increasingly frightening, and the fact that Stan called in someone else to talk him down was alarming. He’s always said strange, disjointed things that could be simply interpreted as him feeling out weird and alienated, but his talking about “the voices” and his weird paranoid rants against Cutler are definitely setting off alarm bells now. I never 100% bought the whole “born in a concentration camp” story he once told Peggy. Maybe it’s genuine, but if it is, it’s a pretty weird backstory. But it would be a really plausible schizophrenic hallucination…

    • PastryGoddess

      Nice batch of bean dip Bobby

    • Crystal

      WHERE DID BOB BENSON COME FROM AND WHY IS HE HERE?!?! Nice pep talk, but what? I keep shouting “you don’t even GO here!!”

      • sekushinonyanko

        It seems we have a variety of accounts-and-creative teams today. We have team smooth with Don and Roger. Team ladies be doing it ourselves with Peggy and Joan. And we have team WTF with Ginsberg and Bob filling out the roster.

        • Crystal

          TEAM WTF. We should make tshirts.

    • OrigamiRose

      DId I hear that right, Ginsburg asked Bob if he was “a homo”?

      • Crystal

        I choked on my bourbon.

    • P M

      Holy wow. Ginzo just said it

      • lilyvonschtupp

        Who let the dogs out?! WOOF! WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!

    • AutumnInNY

      Wow Peggy, what a bitch you’ve become. I wouldn’t make an enemy of Joan—who is a partner, if I were you.

      • sekushinonyanko

        What kind of question is “what are you going to tell the rest of them?” She’s going to tell them whatever the fuck she wants because she’s a partner, Peggy. And she’s going to wind up slipping into team Pete by default since he avoids calling her a ho unless it’s coming with a partnership.

        • Chris

          Joan is probably less than a 5% partner after the merger with no allies on that board. No one cared when Pete said not to call her at the end. Peggy was justifiably terrified for Joan and did all she could to help her despite how Joan treated her all that time at SC. If you think Joan can just “tell them anything she wants” you really don’t understand her position there. She is probably a 2 1/2 % partner that none of those other men really respect.

          • sekushinonyanko

            That’s fair enough. It’s easy to get blinded by how annoying Pete is, plus I just don’t like the idea of her getting boxed out. Pete’s been clearly wanting to put some stakes down, so it’s easy to imagine Pete going right to the “look what I accomplished!” place.

            • Chris

              The great thing about Mad Men is that Joan and Peggy both have their points. You can understand why Joan thinks she will get pushed out and feels she NEEDS this account to be of worth at the firm. Owning that account=security. Peggy knows what a terrifyingly risky thing Joan did and what the consequences are. Peggy tried acting like a man (Don) on the Heinz bean account and saw how she got slapped down for it. (Imagine if Peggy ever acted like Ginsberg!?!) this is a perfect example of Joan vs Peggy behavior just like when they dealt with Joey. Joan always works the system while Peggy has risen through the system the hard way. Their difference is that Peggy will always back another woman and to be fair we know that hasn’t been Joan’s policy.

            • Lisa_Co

              Before he gets Gins, you can see Bob is reading ” How I raised myself from Failure to Success”. Haha

      • Alice Teeple

        I don’t think Peggy was being a bitch at all. If anything, she was looking out for Joan while she was making a huge mistake. Having worked with those men for the past 8 years, Peggy knows exactly how things work, and could see Joan botching things up at the breakfast meeting with her inexperience. Joan misinterpreted Peggy’s story about her family and Avon as dopey Peggy chatter, and interrupted her to make herself sound like the mature, businesslike one. Peggy could see the writing on the wall in that moment and was furious about being lumped in with that impending trainwreck, and how it would look if they were in cahoots. If anything, Joan was the bitchy one. It wasn’t the time to play Queen Bee. Peggy really stuck her neck out for Joan during that risk and got shot down for it. It was a great callback to their relationship in Season One.

        To be fair, Pete Campbell was just doing his job when he explained how things worked in the setup. He could have extended an invitation to Joan for that meeting, which would have avoided that showdown between them later, but he wasn’t wrong.

    • PastryGoddess

      Love this music.

    • MilaXX

      anybody else remember the tv show they made from this song?

      • Cheryl

        Barbara Eden comes to mind.

        • MilaXX

          I think she starred in it as the too sexy mom.

    • EveEve

      Jeannie C Riley – Harper Valley PTA!

    • Judy_J

      Groovy party. Makes me miss my palazzo pants.

    • MisScarlett

      HEY DANNY!!

      • MisScarlett

        I mean…”Daniel”

    • PastryGoddess

      Dan is like 2 ft tall

    • Perditax

      Just wait for the “Is Bob Benson gay?” articles tomorrow as the rest of the internet catches up with TLo!

      • OrigamiRose

        I keep hearing “Bob Bunsen” in my head whenever he’s on-screen.

    • Crystal

      Hello, hippies!

    • Damien W

      That isn’t … it can’t be .. IS IT???

    • PastryGoddess

      Lotus is blitzed!!

    • PastryGoddess

      Again Diety love Roger FUCKING Sterling

    • Young Fry Of Treachery

      It was either going to be him or Paul Kinsey

      • Damien W

        Kinsey greeted them at the airport with some poppies.

    • Crystal

      HER NAME IS LOTUS.

    • Xen

      Daniel Strong for the win!

    • MilaXX

      could Don look any stuffier? Even Roger looks cooler.

      • PastryGoddess

        Indeed

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Haha, I was just thinking that! All suited up.

      • Crystal

        Roger came to California to PARTY. And I love it.

    • PastryGoddess

      Don remember the LAST time you did drugs

      • Crystal

        Roger had better not be doing drugs. I can’t handle it lol

    • P M

      ew hookahs. So unsanitary…..

      • MilaXX

        yeah, not my cuppa either

      • PastryGoddess

        So…smoky…

      • andreawey

        my son said “they’re smoking pot in that? so inefficient…… but I guess you could afford to waste it in those days”

        • not_Bridget

          Could be hashish. A bit stronger than the occasional puff of pot that Don has had over the years. Hey, I remember this Afghan stuff they’d lace with just a taste of opium….

    • Crystal

      STOP IT WITH THE DRUGS.

    • Sally

      Well this will be trippy.

    • PastryGoddess

      Ok who won? Roger or Danny

      • Perditax

        Roger wasn’t even ruffled, plus he’s taller!

        • Perditax

          OK, so maybe being taller wasn’t an advantage…

    • Judy_J

      I’ve got a bad feeling about this…..

      • PastryGoddess

        Don does his best work when he insults his clients

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Please Weiner & Co. explore what happens to Joanie in the last 15 minutes! I can’t bear waiting another week for that. JUST when she starts taking charge of her career, too.

      • MisScarlett

        AMEN to this.

    • PastryGoddess

      Dammit PSY

    • P M

      OMG they just ruined Gangnam style oh god

      • PastryGoddess

        wasn’t it already bad?

    • PastryGoddess

      Yum…Miller beer..

      Someone pass the gin

    • AutumnInNY

      Let’s get back to NY.

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Now now now!

      • OrigamiRose

        I know, this is like the SATC episode in L.A. where I just kept screaming, “GO BACK TO MANHATTAN!”

        Although, if Roger met a dildo model, that would be kinda awesome.

    • Crystal

      Y’all I’m so stressed.

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        I know. Too little time to talk about what we needa talk about!

    • Perditax

      Lotus communicates by telepathy…

      • PastryGoddess

        and blinks

    • PastryGoddess

      Danny was saving that up for YEARS

    • P M

      OUCH way to go Daniel

    • Damien W

      Mad Men — now with crotch punches!

    • Young Fry Of Treachery

      tomorrow’s gif is…

      • PastryGoddess

        Oh yeah

    • PastryGoddess

      Oh look Betty 2.0

    • sekushinonyanko

      Look at silly Don flirting with Betty Draper…

      • PastryGoddess

        Did we post at the same time

        • sekushinonyanko

          Great minds think alike.

    • MisScarlett

      That girl looks so much like Betty.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      IS THIS REAL

    • PastryGoddess

      Is that really Megan?

      • Lisa_Co

        I think it’s the girl with the long dark hair and colorful bikini who was getting out of the pool ( & Don noticed) when he was talking to the ” I like jingles” music guy.

    • Crystal

      Oh look, tacky offbrand Betty. STOP WITH THE DRUGS, DON. And now there’s hippie Megan? WHAT IS THIS?

      • OrigamiRose

        I was wondering if I was drunk and imagining this nuttery :o

      • Peeve

        Love “tacky offbrand Betty”!

    • PastryGoddess

      Am I tripping now

      • Crystal

        THIS CANNOT BE REAL LIFE.

    • Sally

      Who is this????

    • PastryGoddess

      Da FUQ

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      This HAS to be a trip.

    • Judy_J

      Is Don hallucinating?

    • alula_auburn

      any minute now a lizard will jump out of tripping!Megan’s belly.

    • P M

      This is a high dream, right? That’s surely not Megan for real?

    • MilaXX

      Don and his do overs. YAWN

    • AutumnInNY

      Ugh. Is there no escaping Megan?

    • Perditax

      And for this weeks ‘Wait, is this a dream??’ section…

    • Crystal

      THIS IS WHY NO ONE ON THIS SHOW SHOULD EVER DO DRUGS.

      • sekushinonyanko

        This is why this show should stop doing drug episodes. DAMN!

    • PastryGoddess

      <<<<<< is how I'm feeling now

    • P M

      yep trippin’

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      OMG O___O

    • alula_auburn

      and a little Sunset Boulevard to round us off?

    • Damien W

      Very Sunset Boulevard! But where’s the faded silent film star?

    • Perditax

      ‘Dying doesn’t make you whole’ ominous…

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Foreshadowing perhaps :(

    • Crystal

      Oh dear god. You fools. Now where is Joan.

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        I know! Come back!!

    • Judy_J

      Bob’s being used.

      • sekushinonyanko

        Some of them wanna get used by you. His whole life mission is to get someone to use him.

      • PastryGoddess

        Ya think

        Although I think he doesn’t mind a bit

      • lilyvonschtupp

        Bob is getting set up

    • PastryGoddess

      Here we go with the coughing again

      • sekushinonyanko

        I’m fine with coughing as long as it fails to put me in a time warp to a whorehouse.

    • alula_auburn

      Harry Hamlin’s a conniving fellow.

    • Damien W

      “I usually feel better out there.” Well, Anna had something to do with that, Don.

    • PastryGoddess

      I am a curious child with a full head of hair GLRFS

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Is this Detroit thing realy happening? They CAN’T wipe out Ken from the show and release Bob before revealing his secret creepy serial killer spy identity!

      • sekushinonyanko

        Or at least giving him the opportunity to show up in Pete’s office in nothing but a fur coat.

        • PastryGoddess

          You bitch I LOVE YOU

        • Mani @ Iz and Oz

          LOL no kidding.

        • OrigamiRose

          Holy god, that is the visual of the night :)

        • Damien W

          And he’s already sporting that coat under his suit!

          • MartyBellerMask

            Hubba hubba

        • JasmineAM

          With two cups of Irish coffee.

    • Crystal

      No, seriously, WHERE IS JOAN?

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        I will shake with irrational rage if they don’t show her before the credits roll.

        Still upset with Peggy, too.

    • PastryGoddess

      Whole lotta alcohol tonight

    • TDSE

      I’m confused, what is Hamlin planning?

      • sekushinonyanko

        Venganza because he has HAD IT after Ginsberg got self-righteous with him.

        • Damien W

          I don’t think he’s too keen on Jews in general.

          • PastryGoddess

            Of course not. He’s establishment

      • PastryGoddess

        As the Beastie Boys said “SABOTAGE”

        Cutlers been around for a long time, don’t sleep on him

        • decormaven

          Yes. Cutler is SBD – silent, but deadly. He didn’t get made agency partner for nothing.

      • Damien W

        Same thing he planned on L.A. Law — split up/disslve the firm and claim victory like a weasel. Except his LA Law character had a last minute flash of conscience.

    • Cheryl

      This is awful. And not in a good way.

    • P M

      sweet ad from that IT shop thing.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Yes, PLEASE set up your own agency Joan + Peggy.

      • Crystal

        THEY SHOULD.

      • http://howtofaint.tumblr.com/ How to Faint

        And take Dawn with them. God damn it, I want more Dawn. >:(

        • Crystal

          THEY WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE.

    • Perditax

      Green/blue confrontation!

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      ARGHHHHW@#$(#)$*)(@#*$ … nerves.

    • PastryGoddess

      I’m going to change my Avatar to a Tiger

      • OrigamiRose

        Noooooooooooooooooo!

      • Perditax

        You mean a picture of Joan?

        • PastryGoddess

          exactly!

    • P M

      OMG OMG OMG will Joan leave

      • Perditax

        Will she kill Pete before she does?

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      LOL MEREDITH

    • sekushinonyanko

      This is very much so insane.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      YOU HAVE REDEEMED YOURSELF PEGGY! YESSS

      • Chris

        Redeemed from what? Peggy knew exactly what was going to happen and was sick from worrying for Joan. Joan was in severe trouble and who knows what could have happened if it weren’t for Peggy. Joan is not out of the woods yet. She’s a 5% partner (or less after the merger) with no other allies on that board with the possible exception of Bert Cooper. No one cared when Pete said don’t call Joan. The CGC guys don’t know her and couldn’t care less, Pete was her ally now they are enemies, she sent Roger packing last episode and Don she didn’t trust enough to think he wouldn’t cut her out. Besides that he always looked down on how she got her partnership. Peggy knew that was a HUGE deal and was genuinely terrified for her and helped her all she could.

        • PastryGoddess

          I’m going to disagree with you here. When Peggy is pushed into a situation she’s not used to, she tends to react badly. I’m sure there are all sorts of reasons for it. I think Peggy knew where all of Joan’s buttons were located and pushed them after that meeting.

          However during that confrontation She knew Joan was in a VERY vulnerable position and managed to get her out of it. It’s up to Joan to save her own ass now, but Peggy at least threw her a life jacket. Also, Meredith was all to happy too help out. We’ve come a long way from “THERE’S AN AIRPLANE TO SEE YOU”

          • Mani @ Iz and Oz

            Indeed we have! I’m developing a soft spot for Meredith, as brainless as she is lol. Always good add a little levity to the mix.

            • PastryGoddess

              Both Pete and Ted probably knew she was lying. But Joanie sold it

            • Lisa_Co

              Joanie didn’t sell anything. Peggy saved Joan by sending Meredith in with that fake Avon call BS. But Peggy’s right; Avon BETTER CALL or Joan is screwed.

            • PastryGoddess

              Sorry. I think both Ted and Pete knew that Meredith was lying about the phone call.

          • Chris

            I’m going to disagree with you, especially about pushing buttons. Joan accused Peggy of sleeping with Don to get where she was and Peggy let her know that never happened. Joan started it and Peggy finished it honestly. Joan went there, Peggy didn’t. Peggy lied for Joan and helped her every way she could, something Joan has never done for Peggy or any woman in that office.

          • http://howtofaint.tumblr.com/ How to Faint

            I don’t know if Meredith was happy to help out so much as simply willing to do whatever someone tells her to do. She doesn’t seem very bright but she does seem rather docile and easily led.

        • Mani @ Iz and Oz

          As cutting as Joan was, I thought it was a low blow for Peggy to rub salt in the would about how Joan came about her parternship (I’m assuming she knew – even Harry knew in the new season, so it must have got around.) I haven’t glazed through past episodes of Mad Men in a while, but I can’t recall any instance where Peggy was ever legitimately worried for Joan. Except for in this case, where she was caught off guard with the potential client. They haven’t had the best relationship, if any, in former years.

          To not understand Joan’s desire to have something of her own, after ALL of her 15-years of being treated like a secretary instead of the asset she is, and especially after Peggy had gone through similar struggles of being denied opportunity and disrespected as a powerful woman in the workforce during the 60s, well, that just passed over my head. Yeah, Joan was putting her career at risk, and she may not have any allies in her partners, but for once she wasn’t deliberating like a damn secretary, she was taking charge of her value and her potential for upward mobility in the company. Like her friend Kate suggested, proving she’s worth and capable of more than showing clients around the office and being a trophy to oogle at. If Don set up a secret meeting, I doubt anyone (Peggy included) would blink an eye – he goes and does shit behind people’s backs all the time. And maybe he gets grief for a second, but if it ends up working out in the company’s favor at the end of the day, everybody moves on. Peggy could, at the least try to be more empathetic than responding in a reactionary way, “worrying about what the men would think.” Maybe that’s what happens when tensions run high, but doesn’t mean I can’t shake my head at her in disappointment.

          Luckily, it seems like she had some time to think it over when Pete called Joan in to give her a lashing, and lent a helping hand, like the good, helpful Pegs I had originally grown to respect and love.

          • Chris

            First of all let’s remember Peggy got to where she was despite Joan knocking her down day after day for a long time. She was more a barrier than most of the men were to Peggy at first. Peggy has been a better friend to Joan than Joan has ever been to any woman ever. In typical Joan fashion she dismissed all Peggy’s work because she assumed Peggy slept with Don to get a promotion (because Joan cannot see it any other way) and Peggy telling Joan she never slept with Don was a like a slap in the face because that is how Joan did get her partnership. Peggy stood up for Joan and fired Joey for how he treated Joan while Joan was intent on using her wiles to manipulate Lane into doing something. Then she got mad at Peggy for handling the problem straight on. Peggy knew exactly what Joan had done and dragged her in on with the Avon rep. Joan is not Don, she is not a major partner like he is (she may own about 2% now) and is not considered an asset the way he or even Ginsburg is. Peggy certainly doesn’t have to go along with whatever Joan comes up with because now Joan wants to do accounts. While I understand Joan’s need to keep the Avon account hers, there was not one thing wrong with what Peggy said. In the end Peggy had her back because that is how Peggy is and has been but she knew better than anyone the risk Joan took. Unless the Avon deal comes through Joan could have seriously screwed herself. Peggy worried “what the men would think” because even though Peggy is traditional and more respectful of “authority” she knows who has the power and who makes the decisions there.

          • Lisa_Co

            But as someone said upthread, Joan is probably less than a 5% partner and the others could probably “fire” her by forcing her to sell her shares. And Ted sounded pretty angry questioning if Joan had tried to squeeze Pete out.

            • Mani @ Iz and Oz

              I see you’re point – it’s just disappointing for me personally that that could even happen. Which is what I’ve been trying to convey! I don’t think Joan was necessarily “right” for what she did, but last night I just saw a woman who was struggling to assert the last thread of relevance she still had in a company that had recently become over saturated. And I empathized. She couldn’t even explain to the client what she “did.” And she was a bit catty and sneaky about it, but I was still rooting for her. She’s definitely made mistakes but she’s finding her way, and now she’s taking a stand for what she wants, as risky as it is.

              I just hope MW & Co. throw her a few more bones this season.

          • Laylalola

            Doing something profoundly stupid — and Joan failing to grasp that she had made such a serious fumble even after Peggy’s first warnings — is hardly the road to women’s empowerment. And not to put too fine a point on it but Joan did sleep her way to a partnership.

            • not_Bridget

              So? Roger inherited his partnership.

            • Aurumgirl

              And Don lied his way into his partnership. Point is, why single out Joan–everyone used the only way in he/she could find, successfully.

            • Chris

              I think the poster was responding to the fact that everyone seems to think somehow Peggy “attacked” Joan by refuting her claim Peggy slept with Don and let him “carry her to the deep end.” Peggy being proud of how she worked her way up based totally on her work is not a slap against Joan. Joan did sleep her way to a partnership but Peggy never brought that up. If Peggy denying she slept with Don feels like an insult to Joan, that’s Joan’s issue.

            • Mani @ Iz and Oz

              The opportunity was there and she took it. I don’t think that was profoundly stupid in any way. Risky? Yes. But not stupid. It’s new business and the client seemed promising. No matter what, it’s ALWAYS a crapshoot with clients.

              She was wrong to do it behind Pete’s back, but I disagree with his ego and treatment of her when she suggested she coming along. It just proved that she is and will continue to be under appreciated for her work.

              She did sleep her way to the partnership – at the will of the very men who pimped her out and now continue to repeatedly screw her over. Perhaps she was naive to think this Jaguar thing would all be swept under the rug afterwards, but I understand completely why she was at her wit’s end and wanted to regain some control.

          • MartyBellerMask

            I agree about the double standard of the secret meeting. But in fairness to Peggy, I don’t necessarily think she was trying to pour salt into any wound. Peggy was defending herself because she knows people tend to think she slept with Don. Even Ted probably thinks that. I very honestly don’t think she was throwing it in Joan’s face.
            Peggy also probably didn’t realize what a sore spot it had become for Joan, having used her sexuality to get where she is. Things changed a lot while Peggy was gone. Joan has changed from when they first met.

            • Mani @ Iz and Oz

              Ah OK, fair enough. Joanie can be a bit abrasive sometimes.

    • MilaXX

      okay Peggy redeemed herself a little

    • PastryGoddess

      Good Save Pegs

    • alula_auburn

      Oh, thank you, Ted, even if you are kind of a weenie. Pete, don’t play tough with the big girls.

      • UsedtobeEP

        Well after all, he barely knows Joan. She hasn’t sat down with him and said, “I want to be an account exec.” Clueless? Yes. Poor listener? Yep. But he wised up fast.

      • Aurumgirl

        No “kind of” about it. Ted’s is a weenie. Poor Peggy, let down time and again, and again, by Ted.

    • PastryGoddess

      Don’t worry Joanie

      It’ gets better

    • Damien W

      That was clever — maybe a little too clever. But an interesting point was made, I think. Wasn’t it?

    • MilaXX

      Notice Joan is wearing green and blue in nearly every scene. Work conflict?

      • PastryGoddess

        I’m thinking conflict within herself. She’s now defining a role for herself that doesn’t fit with what people are used to of her.

        • MilaXX

          But there’s the external conflicts with Pete & Peggy as well.

          • PastryGoddess

            good point

      • sekushinonyanko

        She is sort of having an affair. She’s stepping out on Pete with Peggy. Not a literal romantic affair, but a professional one.

    • Crystal

      FUCK YES I FORGIVE TED AND PEGGY YAY JOANIE!!! Sorry y’all I’m drunk and capsy.

    • Crystal

      “It was a series of busts, and not the kind I like.”

    • P M

      OH MY GOD, what the hell – she’s out of a meeting. NOT GOOD.

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Seriously, Pete is such a little shit.

      • Perditax

        Yikers

      • Guest

        But it’s good! She’s ducking while she can catch her breath and pull it together.

      • sekushinonyanko

        No matter how much of a fit Pete throws, he can’t un-make her a partner, and it’s well-known how indispensable Joan is. She keeps that place ticking, he’s just another account man, and one who’s had a bad run of failing to maintain business lately.

        • Crystal

          That’s true, no matter how many bitch fits he throws it’s not like anyone’s going to say “But if Pete leaves, WHERE WILL WE GET OUR BUSINESS?”

          • sekushinonyanko

            Don all but told him he’s free to take his ass home whenever he gets ready.

            • Chris

              And the sad part is Pete’s not wrong -but Don and Roger are too busy making asses of themselves to see they are not running the asylum anymore. That’s the problem with Pete, he’s such a jerk people don’t listen to him but he’s not stupid and often calls things before anyone else.

            • sekushinonyanko

              The thing with Pete telling the truth is that he’s so self-involved that he’s always telling it as much because it’s the actual case as because he’s feeling personally dramatic. Like when he told Harry off for not giving a fuck about MLK. Sure, Harry was being insensitive, but Pete’s actual problem was with his wife and mother. Or when Pete wanted a chair? Sure, a partner should have a chair and Moira needs to chill out and learn her place. But really Pete’s problem was that it made him feel personally slighted, when he would have had a chair if he wasn’t late, and Don would have probably just asked for a secretary to bring a chair like a normal person. Any time he points something out it’s as much because he’s dramatic and feels invalidated by everyone as because it’s a thing that needs to be said. That makes it really hard to pay attention to him, he’s like the boy that cries wolf, and by wolf I mean cries he’s not being paid attention to.

            • not_Bridget

              Moira needed a place at the table because she was taking the minutes of the meeting. When Ted jumped up on the credenza, he was acting like a casual, athletic young guy–and a gentleman. Making Pete seem even more like a premature old fart..

            • sekushinonyanko

              Meredith was there to take minutes; Moira was redundant. Also, she should have had enough chairs in there before the meeting was even started, or excused herself to get a chair without having to be asked when Pete showed up.

            • PastryGoddess

              I agree to a point. Pete’s first thought is always of himself and how he can spin things to go in his favor. His problem is that he has none of Don’s charisma or Roger’s glibness. So instead of looking like a canary, he more often resembles a goat…or a donkey’s behind

            • Crystal

              this happens a lot on The Walking Dead too, the irritating insane character starts saying things that actually make sense, but he’s already established as that guy no one listens to.

          • sekushinonyanko

            I think people might already be starting to question his usefulness, especially when he publicly throws fits, like he did about the chair and of course like he’s doing right now. Question number 1, what’s Pete pissed about today. Question number 2, what has this diva done for me lately?

        • Chris

          If the partners wanted to, they could get rid of her in a minute. She owns a tiny share of the new agency (my guess is about 2 1/2% but I cannot prove it). She is like Lane, only probably less respected. I don’t think many of them think of her as indispensable.

          • sekushinonyanko

            You recall why it is that she was brought over when SCDP was first created, right?

            • Chris

              Because of the people leaving SC most were “chiefs” not “Indians” and no one knew what they needed to take in terms of past work, files etc. They also had no one to act in a secretarial capacity. Joan organized the removal of files, orchestrated the move, got Don a furnished apartment and answered the phones for them. I don’t think any of the partners think Joan is essential any more than they thought Lane was essential.

        • P M

          Do you suppose that’s why she had trouble in answering the question ‘What do you do?’ with the Avon guy?

          • sekushinonyanko

            I think it’s because she has been evolving on the answer to that question. It would barely be inadequate to say “everything, but who knows what my actual job title is at the moment.” She could say what she’d been doing, but at that time she was looking to branch into accounts. Almost like how Don and (it seems) Bob got their jobs in large part by doing them, she decided to go into accounts by bringing in an account.

            • Chris

              Joan doesn’t really fit into any of the departments that are seen as essential, namely accounts or creative. Joan is trying to get herself insurance. Her percentage doesn’t guarantee her anything. Like Lane she realized it and is trying to get her “own” account. Unlike Lane she is very savvy and has considerably more charisma. Plus Avon is right up her alley. She knows that product (and how the business works from the inside thanks to her friend) inside and out.

            • P M

              Yep. That’s what I figured. She is the person in the background who’s always been there and is part of everything and knows everything. But she needs to use that as a foundation to really bring value to the company (eyeroll – as though she wasn’t valuable already).

              For a male, I suspect that this would have been a shoo-in as an entry into accounts. I find it odd though that having gone through the homework for going public, she wouldn’t have made a firmer plan, and a fuller-formed idea, of Avon being HER account. Know what I mean?

    • P M

      Bert ‘I had nothign to do with it’.

    • OrigamiRose

      UGH. Where is Dawn???

    • PastryGoddess

      Pete is in a Death Spiral

    • Crystal

      NO DRUGS FOR YOU PETE.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      wtf is this ending …

    • Damien W

      What the hell just happened here? I mean it, what the hell just happened here for the last hour???

    • PastryGoddess

      Ok the world is officially gone to hell Pete “establishment” Campbell is smokin weed

    • MisScarlett

      Just a little piece of my heart, baby.

    • P M

      And Pete is turning into Don – kind of

    • sekushinonyanko

      Is Pete fucking looking cool with a Janis Joplin soundtrack?! I don’t think we’ve ever seen him look cool before.

    • Sally

      Ending with Janis …sweet.

    • alula_auburn

      I bet Pete doesn’t even get a sexy tripping fantasy, either.

      • OrigamiRose

        He dreams of colorful accounts to manage.

        • Damien W

          In a velvet robe and crown, with a leopard-print call girl at his feet.

          • OrigamiRose

            I hope you realize you have made a virtual stranger fall the fuck over laughing right now :)

            *raises glass* And I don’t fall over laughing that easily!

            • Damien W

              *clink* Cheers!

            • Sally

              Clink!

          • sekushinonyanko

            Thank GOD he’s never attempted creative. His fantasies are such a tacky embarrassment.

    • Perditax

      Pete takes drugs; drugs are no longer cool

      • P M

        Ultimate anti-drug PSA?

        • Crystal

          “You wanna do drugs kid?” “YEA!” “Pete Campbell does drugs now.” “Nevermind. Pass the scotch.”

    • PastryGoddess

      Ted was getting drunk with Peggy

    • Judy_J

      Pete—tune in, turn on, drop out.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      GUYS. TED WAS DRINKING WITH PEGGY.

      I know it. I saw a glimpse of her green suit.

      • Chris

        Yes and who’s apartment was he walking through? That must be his- that was an older lady’s dressing table. Must be Nan’s. Was he taking Peggy home with him, that would be so awful! And Peggy had a blue hat on with her green suit and he had on a blue suit. This will not end well.

        • Mani @ Iz and Oz

          Good eye! I presumed they were in a bar, but once that preview gets uploaded to youtube I’ll have to look again.

          But lawd at the blue and green. So it really might be happening, huh (some part of me still wants it … eep …)

      • sekushinonyanko

        Peggy would be well-served to get all the way over Ted, because he’s officially mindfucking her.

        • PastryGoddess

          I’ll take mindfuck over real fucking. She’s still a catholic schoolgirl at heart and she tends to get attached for way to long after the schupping happens.

          • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

            I kind of want her to shtup Stan. Stan-shtupping would be fine by me. MRAWR.

            • http://howtofaint.tumblr.com/ How to Faint

              Hi, I’d like to sign this petition and subscribe to your newsletter. :D

            • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

              Should we call ourselves the Stan-Shtupporters?

            • http://howtofaint.tumblr.com/ How to Faint

              Yes. Absolutely, yes.

            • not_Bridget

              She needs to find a guy who does not work with her. Of course, she concentrates on her job, not on finding a boyfriend–so how will she meet somebody?

              The thing with Abe was not a great romance–he was convenient.

            • Crystal

              I totally ship them. I want them to bone so badly lol

    • Damien W

      Damn The Killing! I was fine with it being cancelled! Now we won’t be able to watch MM three times in a row anymore!

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        LOL I know right … 2 hour extension of Mad Men in its place, pls!

      • OrigamiRose

        I thought I was the only one who did the three-peat viewing!

        • lilyvonschtupp

          I do it, too. AMC is constantly trying to cram ‘The Killing’ down our throats!

      • sweetlilvoice

        Exactly, stop trying to cram that stupid show in our faces! It’s a bad show and not getting any better. First season was ok but got really dumb toward the end. And all that rain drove me crazy.

    • lilyvonschtupp

      AVON! CALL JOANIE!

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Immediately! Looks like we’ll have to wait one more episode though, didn’t catch a glimpse of her next week :(

      • Damien W

        Next week will be like that MASH episode with a clock running in the corner of the screen: Avon calls by the end of the hour, or Joanie’s out on her tushy.

        • OrigamiRose

          Dumb question, but as a partner, could she really be ejected so easily?

          • PastryGoddess

            I think when push comes to shove and her back against the wall….Joan will pull out the family bible and start reading everyone back to their ancestors.
            She’s not Marilyn anymore who relies on her body and looks to get by, she’s Elizabeth Fucking Taylor who will tell you who she is and live her life any damn way she pleases.

            She’s begun to realize that she can create her own destiny

            • 3boysful

              Here’s hoping she knows too much about the finances for them to let her go. (Not cooked books, but just that no one else has a clue.)

          • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

            Not really. They’d have to buy her out.

          • Chris

            The sad part is that Joan is the new Lane. She does not handle any accounts, or bring any money in. She has a far smaller share in the business than Lane ever did and you saw how easily Don fired Lane. That is why Joan realized how important Avon could be for her (much as Lane was trying to do the same with Jaguar). I’m not saying Joan didn’t have a reason for doing what she did but Peggy was right it was a huge risk and breach of protocol. Peggy really pulled her fat from the fryer, at least temporarily.

            • Aurumgirl

              She might not bring any money in, but, like Lane, she does manage the finances of the company. And that is an extremely valuable job. After all, without Lane’s management of finances during their first year, the company wouldn’t have got off the ground. Somebody has to manage the income and outgoing of money in every business or it can’t function. And that is one of Joan’s roles as a partner.

            • abby536

              Don could only “fire” Lane because he committed fraud. I’m sure there’s a standard inclusion in any contract but even without it just the threat of police was enough to drive him out the door. And in that case to his death.

              But they could treat her like a pariah or buy her out. Or ask her to stay home and just pull in money from her shares rather than also getting a salary.

              But I don’t think Roger would allow that to happen. And if it did I hope she’d write a fabulous tell all book and trounce his pitiful Sterling’s gold.

              She’d be dynamite on Dick Cavett.

    • lilyvonschtupp

      Janis Joplin? I wonder how much they paid for that?

      And no Jimi ‘Hear My Train Comin’

    • annaplurabelle

      Only three more episodes left! Nooooooooooo…..

    • Laylalola

      They want to break off back into their own ad agency, and they didn’t want Don’s name or Pete’s name on the door because they want to take them with them.

      • Mani @ Iz and Oz

        Maybe I wasn’t playing close enough attention, but why not Roger too?

        • PastryGoddess

          Because the world is not big enough for both Cutler and Sterling to share

          • Crystal

            That’s true. It’d be like 2 prom queens. Bitch fits and slap boxing all the time.

          • Laylalola

            Well, they left his name on the door for one thing, along with Bert’s. :) They might not be planning any such thing, but if they were, they’ve already partially defined who they will be breaking away from (and Sterling Cooper & Partners really never would have to change their own name again, as partners come and go).

      • Chris

        I thought it was because they are positioning themselves to handle most of the business, they even “took” Bob Benson and made him loyal to them and have him shadowing Ken on Chevy. They lost “Roger’s business” with Manichevitz and to distract everyone from what’s going on they generously offer to go with Sterling Cooper as the name.

    • PastryGoddess

      Harris and Olsen vs Cutler/Chaough/Campbell/Cooper

      • Damien W

        All the C’s are ganging up!

      • housefulofboys

        Harris/Olsen/Draper vs the C’s

        • PastryGoddess

          I don’t know if Peggy can deal with Don without other people as buffers.

      • P M

        Cooper is out. Hope he goes with Joan.

        • PastryGoddess

          I disagree, Bert came in with the C’s, and is increasingly out of touch. Cutler is an older version of Campbell if he doesn’t get his shit together. Cooper just wants things to stay the same. Ted is giving me fits. Sometimes I like him and other times I’m yelling at the screen.

          I can’t see Sterling and Draper on opposite sides of the table. Those two are like peanut butter and jelly

          • Wellworn

            I always felt that Bert was the touchstone of the company, the voice of reason and wisdom. He always cut through the bullshit and drama and found what was important. He might be losing his voice in this expansion of the company, but that would be a mistake and a shame.

        • Crystal

          I would be okay with a Joan/Peggy/Bert/Dawn alliance. And Stan! They should bring Stan!

    • Perditax

      There’s no way this agency’s staying in one piece, right?!

      • P M

        Hell no

      • Crystal

        Nope.

    • lasmith85

      There’s no doubt that other people may have noted the coincidence, but I think it is pretty clear that the woman “white lady” aka @bhisarockstar on twitter was the first person to pose the question to Janie or anyone in such a public way. And from what I can read from the tweet, it wasn’t some grand attempt at uncovering a conspiracy. It seems like she was just asking if the photo was inspired by one taken by her father in the 60s, which I think were you in her position, would be pretty interesting to you too. I think the tone in this article is a little too snarky and lacks the credit due that tweeter.

      • Peeve

        TLo’s mini-rant above had absolutely nothing to do with the original tweet to Janie or credit due the asker of the question. It had everything to do with people on the internet (and elsewhere) being much too literal in running with that info and turning it into the murder of Megan.

        • lasmith85

          Thank you – good to know. I’m not a super frequent TLo reader so I’ll have to take your word on that. I’m not entirely convinced, though, due to this part:

          “We say “it was revealed” because it was one of those things that a whole bunch of people uncovered or noticed at roughly the same time and costume designer Janie Bryant came right out and confirmed the connection on her twitter account within hours. There’s been some crankiness about who deserves credit for discovering it first, but we’re pulling out of that conversation. We found out about the connection because we follow Janie on twitter.”

          Saying there has been “crankiness” over who deserves credit, but then saying that they found out about the connection due to following Janie on twitter (presumably from seeing her response there to the tweeter who asked the question) just seems unnecessarily dismissive to the OP. I feel like some kind of h/t may be due. Or at least a little less snark. Just my opinion though.

          • Peeve

            You’re right–I read it completely differently than you did and got a different take on it.

          • PastryGoddess

            I think the crankiness was over the fact that TLo had mentioned Sharon Tate as a reference before the season even started, and it was coming up constantly. I don’t think that anyone expected such a LITERAL Sharon Tate/Megan references as the T-shirt.

            The conversation can start to be a bit circular re: Sharon Tate Megan Death. It doesn’t matter who noticed it first. The connection has been made. I think what TLo was trying to do was to refocus on the fact that Sharon Tate was a cultural reference for Janie, not a literal representation of where the plot was going to go. Sharon Tate = 60’s Actress, not Sharon Tate = Death.

            I hope that made sense

          • MartyBellerMask

            Well, more exists in the world than Twitter. Any number of people could have discovered the connection and just *not* tweeted about it.

      • PastryGoddess

        TLo pointed out the Sharon Tate connection well before that episode, If you were trying to make a point you may need to try again

      • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

        I think you have completely and willfully misread this post.

    • Mani @ Iz and Oz

      Cheers everyone, and thanks for posting this T&L! Looking forward to next week’s T Lounge :)

    • Hoffa_w_HerHead

      The way the camera panned to “Cosgrove” on his office door after a Bob Benson scene has me worried!

    • lilyvonschtupp

      What do you guys watch before Mad Men? I’ve become partial of Anthony Bourdain’s new show on CNN.

      • PastryGoddess

        GOT for me

    • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

      Aww, TLo shot down all my favorite Bob Benson theories. Oh well.

      I liked how Joan clearly dresses for “dates” vs “business.” I didn’t really get why Peggy thought the Avon prospects were ruined when Joan shut out Pete though. I totally understand why Pete is pissed since he’s always insecure about his job (and everything else in his life) but I loved Peggy’s stealth maneuvers for Joan.

      ETA: OH OH OH AND Ginsberg calling Stan a mother hen and Stan being satisfied with that. ADORABLE. LOVE. But Ginsberg’s gone full Horselover Fat.

      Anyway, so how about that Red Wedding on GoT?

      • Frank_821

        As petty and childish as Pete can be, Joan took an enormous risk not having 1 of the accounts exec there to handle things. She’s never handle accounts before. not officially and there is standard practices. She could have easily bungled the whole thing due to inexperience. As someone mentioned look at the situation with Lane and Jaguar. They could have barred her any further involvement with Avon. Not being part of either the accounts or creative dept, she would be hard pressed to argue against it.

        • not_Bridget

          We were told after Pete’s blowup that the procedure would have been for him to be the Senior Account guy with Joan as the Junior. Thus she could work her way up.

          But when Pete first heard about Avon, he pretty much dismissed her & said she could give the guy a tour of the office when he visited. He didn’t act like she’d have any part in the account.

          Ted was certainly concerned but thought it would be OK after he was told the Avon guy called back. Let’s hope he really does!

          • Laylalola

            Pete explained the situation before the meeting — making clear Joan would get all the credit, — and then it was made clear again after the meeting. One of the maddening things was how Joan didn’t pick up on the significance of the protocol before the meeting, during the meeting with Peggy’s reactions to her, and for some time after the meeting. Heck, arguably, as partner she should have already had a sense of all this anyway, maybe particularly so after the debacle with Lane.

            ETA: Pete never said Joan is the junior, he made clear it’s just the opposite. Joan is the senior and it’s the job of the underlings dispatched to do business after she got the tip to make her look good.

          • MartyBellerMask

            I think the operative words here are “account man”. As in, Joan would never even have a chance, becasue she is not a man. Joan heard that and said, “oh yeah? Challenge ACCEPTED. I will blaze that trail.”

            • Chris

              I don’t think Joan ever thinks of herself as a trailblazer. Unlike Peggy, she doesn’t think of womankind when she pursues things, she thinks of what will be best for her. (Not that Peggy isn’t interested in herself but she has helped and encouraged other women professionally.) Joan has never been known to provide any kind of help or mentoring to any of the other women under her. Look how she ran around the office on a tear and fired Scarlett in front of the whole office for doing a smaller version of what Joan used to do- over a couple hours of “office time.” It was far less of an offense on the grand scale than what Joan technically pulled with Avon.

      • jr

        Valis, for sure.

        Pete’s also pissed because Don once fired him for doing the same thing Joan basically did; he pitched an idea to a client and stepped into a role he was not assigned. Cooper un-fired him.

        • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

          Oh you’re right! I hadn’t thought of that.

      • Laylalola

        I’m not in the ad world, but I thought multiple characters made it clear that Joan violated a basic standard protocol in how the industry handles things.

        • Chris

          Yes and Peggy knew immediately what a gigantic deal this was, especially after Ted told Joan directly what to do with Pete. Joan not only went against Pete’s authority but Ted’s too. Luckily for her Peggy was right that Ted loves new business so much if it works out she may get away with it. Joan did lose her ally Pete, and even though he is far from the greatest friend to have, Joan’s list of allies is very thin in that office.

    • eb1966

      I think something big is coming next episode for Megan’s career.

    • lilyvonschtupp

      Roger to Don: “I’m Vasco de Gama and you’re some other Mexican.”

      Offensive, but hey, that’s how Roger operates. I couldn’t help but to laugh.

      • http://howtofaint.tumblr.com/ How to Faint

        As a Mexican, I laughed my ass off for so many reasons, but primarily because a) de Gama was Portuguese; b) conquistadores were mainly Spanish and Portuguese–although I guess they were responsible for creating Mexicans, as it were; and c) because while on the east coast everyone even vaguely Latino-seeming is assumed to be Puerto Rican, on the west coast, we’re assumed to be Mexican.

        So. Yeah. It caught me by such surprise and made me laugh so hard that I ended up snorting ice cream out my nose. :D

        • lilyvonschtupp

          I was thinking the whole time, “Hold on: isn’t Vasco de Gama a Spaniard?”

          • http://howtofaint.tumblr.com/ How to Faint

            Hahaha! I love how wrong everything about that metaphor was. This episode is so full of tiny but amazing moments.

    • eb1966

      The pool scene was reminiscent of “Sunset Boulevard.”

      • Lilithcat

        So who is Norma Desmond?

        • Alice Teeple

          Danny.

    • lilyvonschtupp

      Don face down in the pool only confirmed Mona Sterling’s thought:

      “That man never fails at embarrassing himself.”

      • abby536

        Ever since she said that I’ve been thinking about how often he DOES behave like an idiot. In my whole life I haven’t fallen down, collapsed, vomited, been attacked/injured or blind drunk as much as he has in the time we’ve been following him. And ironically most of the damage isn’t even because he’s an alcoholic. That’s just a sideline.

        If he wasn’t so handsome he’d get called on it far more often.

        On the other hand I think she recognizes that because she was married to Roger Sterling who seems always to be making a charming ass of himself in one way or another. The reason Roger’s my favorite is because he’s so sunny as he shrugs off the humiliations. He’s an ass but a secure ass.

        Don is deeply insecure and that’s why he needs to rewrite history so often. Roger just keeps going through the doorways.

    • Damien W

      Watching it again — it just dawned on me — they’re shipping Bob to Detroit. Or at least, as often as Ken is there.

      • aromatic

        I think it’s a way to sideline the character until they bring him back at the end of the season for some grand finale… well that seemed redundant, but you know…

      • Chris

        Cutler is positioning “their side” to be in control of everything. Don and Roger are so busy drinking and feeding their own egos they don’t know they are losing a war. They don’t even know it’s being fought. I’m sure there is a Vietnam analogy there at SC.

        • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gaby

          By moving everyone to Detroit?

    • Chris

      That aqua suit Joan had on for the Avon meeting has to be in the top five of the most gorgeous, flattering things she has ever worn. She was stunning and looked like a movie star. Christina Hendricks should custom order ten of them for herself. That color was so amazing for her. I was so disappointed the Janie Bryant video on AMC this time never mentioned it and spent half the time discussing Don’s very boring cream jacket.

    • Agatha Guilluame

      Uncles, I would love to hear your rumination on last night’s GOT Rains of Cashmere aka The Red Wedding (you know, if it was anything beyond shock, horror and a God awful sense of helplessness).

    • frannyprof

      Huzzah, boys. You made your case brilliantly.

    • Lisa

      I can see how the blood on Joan’s dress and the ride in the convertible foreshadowed the JFK assassination. Were those pictures with just Peggy and Paul supposed to be a different reference though?

      • abby536

        I think that’s just a followup scene (or prior) in the relevant episode.

      • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

        That was the Aquanet commercial pitch, depicting two couples in a convertible. Peggy came in the weekend of the assassination to re-work it because it was too close to the event.

    • sweetlilvoice

      Thank you! I don’t think Megan is going to die either…MM has never been so literal. I’ve learned a lot from you two!