PR: Hey, take a look in the mirror, Chubs.

Posted on August 24, 2012

YAY! The so-called “Real Woman” challenge! The one episode every season that has 75% of the viewing audience throwing vases, drinks, throwpillows, children, or whatever else they can get their hands on in the throes of their rage, at their TV screens! The one hour (plus!) of pop culture entertainment every year that does the absolute most damage to the reputation of the fashion industry at large to people who don’t normally follow fashion!

We thought the whole thing about having friends along for the ride made it more complicated than it needed to be, but it actually paid off, because as we saw, it gave the clients someone to complain to and someone who’d stand up for them. It added a nice twist to the proceedings.

Although we couldn’t shake the persistent idea buzzing in our heads through the whole episode that it’s long past time for Clinton and Stacey to make a guest appearance on this show, don’t you think?

Anyway. Let’s do this.

Asshole.

We found his robotic affect to be annoying, pretentious, and unappealing before last night, but he really took it to new heights. We wound up debating last night whether anyone on this show had ever treated a real-world client so shabbily and settled on season 3′s epic throwdown between Jeffrey, Angela, and her mom. We always thought that one represented the nadir of client relations on the show, but neither Angela nor her mother came across as passive players in that conflict, so we’re gonna have to award the new world record to Ven.

But we’ll say this – and don’t take this as a defense of Ven’s actions. It was awfully shady that the clients were assigned, we were told by Tim, “randomly,” without ever seeing this process on camera. Pulling their names out of a bag is random and that’s how the show’s almost always done it. Something smelled funny from the get-go. Think about it: if you wanted to create drama, which designer prior to last night would you have predicted to be the least empathetic of all of them? Ven, of course. There are plenty of shrieking marmosets in that workroom, but he’s the one with the coldest personality; the one least likely to have any sympathy for anyone.

And he’s also the most coldly competitive out of the group. He constantly assesses his performance relative to everyone else’s in the room. He’s the classic “I’m not here to make friends” reality competitor. He knew as well as we did that the person who wins the “real woman” challenge almost always has the thinnest, or one of the thinnest clients. And the person who gets eliminated in that challenge almost always has the largest, or one of the largest clients. If you check Ven’s twitter-twats, your blood pressure will most likely go way up, but on his repeated assertion that this was a setup, we’re inclined to agree.

But that doesn’t remotely excuse any of his actions. Sure, Ven. It was a setup; the thinking behind it being “Let’s see what happens to Ven when we make things really difficult for him.” Welcome to the world of reality television. After that, EVERYTHING’S ON YOU, BUDDY. You could have turned it into a triumphant, redemptive thing. You could have admitted that you had fears about your chances in this challenge, but that your client deserved your respect and the very best work you could produce for her. You could have learned something by asking your client about her feelings and history with fashion. YOU COULD HAVE AT FUCKING LEAST ACKNOWLEDGED THAT YOU ARE NOT EXACTLY SVELTE YOURSELF, YOU UNSELF-AWARE JACKASS.

We’ll say this, though: every one of the other designers came off really well in this respect and almost every one seemed disgusted by Ven’s actions.

One other thing: all the dismay from the judges that Ven would ever use the term “real woman” to describe his client was pure bullshit, since they’ve been using that very term FOR YEARS on this show.

Oh, and one final thing: that faux second-elimination thing was horseshit. It was never going to happen. They know what they have with that one.

Let’s move on. We feel dirty.

 

Fabio Costa

So congrats to Dumpster Hipster! We agree with this win and we like what it says about the judges (this week).

Because while this isn’t necessarily editorial or something a model might wear, it was, as they noted, a perfect look for an artist. It took into account her personality, her life, and her preferences (ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION, VEN?) and addresses them all while looking unique.

But the belt is awful and we had to convince ourselves that the booties worked. The judges urged Fabio to inject more of himself into his designs and even if we think the accessorizing is off, we can’t deny it’s very Fabio and also very much this girl’s style.

And her hair looked great.

It helped that, of all the designer-client pairings, this pair could not have been more sympatico. You can bet they each have friends that remind them of the other one.

“Randomly.” Yeah, right.

But it needs to be said that Fabio is actually quite sweet, rarely has anything bad to say about anyone unless they step out of line (and his denouncement of Ven was perfect), and really wants to be a better designer and to make his way to the end of this competition. He deserved this win for a  lot of reasons.

 

Nathan Paul

And it’s Auf Wiedersehen to poor Nathan.

We thought Nathan was such a sweetheart, even more so after he admitted that he and his mom used to do classical music performances together and he used to make her outfits for them. How can you not love that?

Then again, how could you not hate this?

There’s really nothing here to defend. It’s awful, top to bottom.

And sure, you could argue that his client was satisfied, but we would take that with a grain of salt. These people didn’t come in for makeovers for no reason, after all. The judges always want the designers in these challenges to do three things: satisfy the client, remain true to their aesthetic, and produce something that is, as Nina would say, “aesthetically pleasing.”

We don’t think there’s any question he failed on two out of three fronts.

We have no doubt that many, many people think Ven should have gone home for his Lane Bryant catalogue pieces, but we’re sorry to say, Ven has proven himself as one of the better designers several times over and Nathan hasn’t managed to impress the judges once. They always say they don’t vote that way, but time and time again, the judges always take past performance into consideration when they’ve got a close decision. We’re sorry to see Nathan go and sorrier to see Ven stay.

 

 

[Photo Credit: Barbara Nitke for myLifetime.com - Stills: tomandlorenzo.com]

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  • Sobaika

    “YOU COULD HAVE AT FUCKING LEAST ACKNOWLEDGED THAT YOU ARE NOT EXACTLY SVELTE YOURSELF, YOU UNSELF-AWARE JACKASS.”

    That alone would have made all of his shenanigans go down a little easier to take.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

      When Ven made the comment about black being slimming (one of the times anyway), he was wearing a black polo shirt.  I so  wanted to hear either the client or her friend so say, ‘oh, so that’s why you’re wearing it, right, A-hole?’

      • VioletFem

        Everything I hear people say that line about the color black, I always want to respond with “It’s a color not a diet plan. You can only expect it to do so much.”

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           LMAO — I’m stealing that.

        • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

          I am always annoyed with people who put on an ill-fitting black schmatta and think it slims them. I want to tell them it’s the cut and fit that matter, not the color.

          • VioletFem

            Very true.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1241487378 Lauren Lynch Fox

          Love!

        • MilaXX

          I need to put that on a t shirt

    • http://twitter.com/Merneith Merneith

       Because that really can’t be said loudly enough. What a toad. And I don’t really think he was “set up”. If anything, I suspect the producers expected that his technical skills made him the best able to cope with a non-traditional figure. Instead it just demonstrated the narrowness of his vision.

      • http://twitter.com/jkpenny JennyPenny

        It didn’t even look to me like Ven’s model was the largest woman there so I don’t buy the “set up” as much as he is playing it up. Yes, the majority of the women were relatively small, but maybe with the exception of Alicia’s model, they all had physical features or aspects of their personality (read: body issues/self-consciousness) that made them more complicated to design for. Every year there is one designer who embarasses himself (and face it, it always seems to be the male designers who are this clueless) last year (?) it was  Precious Moments with his model who had boobs (gasp!). At this point, they know what they’re getting. PR’s producers love the drama, so if you’re a contestant, you’re getting the “real woman” challenge. You may be thinking these things, but learn to manage your image or you’re very quickly going to make yourself the villain of the piece.

        • Sobaika

          Most men, except Anthony Williams. He was delightful as usual and designed a pretty good dress if my (shoddy) memory serves.

          • http://twitter.com/jkpenny JennyPenny

             Anthony was the best. Just thinking about him makes me happy.

          • HobbitGirl

            He is just as adorable IRL too. I sometimes see him at the DeKalb Farmers Market here in Georgia.

          • http://twitter.com/cjb2225 Joyce

             I live in Macon.  An hour and half drive to stalk one of my all-time favorite PR designers/personalities is not asking too much.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QFW22QV426LUOEPGASPZJWJMDE MishaFoomin

            You can do it! Try your best!

          • http://twitter.com/Jossynda Camille Price

            You know, Jay had a show, Chris March had a reality show. They gave Austin and Santino a show.  I’m waiting for them to give Anthony a show, because that would be “can’t miss” tv for me.

        • Kristin McNamara

          THIS. I don’t even think Ven’s model WAS the largest woman there!!!!! Gunnar’s model looked to be about the same size, if not slightly larger, and HE LANDED IN THE TOP THREE, VEN (staged or not, doesn’t matter for the purposes of my point here). So SHUT you f*cking mouth about the top designs always being someone who got a “model-sized” client, because it’s NOT true!!

          PS- Reading Ven’s twitter last night was INFURIATING. Even if he hadn’t apologized, but solely ADMITTED, “Damn, I sound like an asshat. Wish I hadn’t said those things,” it would have been a little redemptive. Because there’s no getting around the fact that he SAID the words the edits were showing coming out of his mouth, even if the “good things” [he claims he said] were getting cut out. You still SAID those bad things, so f*cking own up to it! Instead, he practically denied that he said all those things and chose to whiiiiiiiiine and whine and whine about how the whole world is out to get him. He sounded like a 4 year old. Say “not fair” one more time, Ven. Really. It’s helping.

          • http://twitter.com/PhDKnitter marlie

            I actually **HATED** Gunnar’s dress, but he earned MAJOR bonus points in my book for working so well with his client, and making something that she was happy with in the end. Just goes to show that manners and empathy go a long way.

          • Topaz

            God help me, but I actually found myself liking Gunnar last night. Maybe he was just trying to manage his image for the cameras by being decent to his client, but he seemed to genuinely enjoy the challenge and, sincere or not, he clearly made her feel more fantastic and beautiful with every second she spent with him. Any bespoke designer worth their salt should be making that a priority of they want to be able to effectively showcase their own aesthetic on someone else. And if they want to be worn by high profile clients they definitely can’t start getting pissy about flattering different body shapes. Not every stylish person on the planet is a size 0-4. Certainly the sort of people who can afford to commission looks are NOT going to be 17 year old models, and most of the designers on Project Runway are not going to be spending their careers dressing celebrities no matter how much misplaced grandiosity they have about their own talent.

            Unlike the judges I didn’t adore his Gunnar’s design, but it was perfectly fine and whether he liked the finished product or not, Ven should have been watching Gunnar and taking notes. Asshat.

          • kikisayshi

             Not only that, but I don’t even think he realized the entire way through the process that his model was crying because of HIM. He kept saying, “She’s not happy. She’s upset” and it was clear that he thought she was upset with the clothes (well, could you blame her?). No, Ven. She’s crying because you just basically called her a fatass over and over and over and over…

          • Buffy

            and you made her ugly clothes

          • http://twitter.com/PhDKnitter marlie

            Right. His client’s displeasure was about the way HE was treating her. Early on, her unhappiness became more about how rude and insensitive Ven was, rather than the clothes. The clothes – ugly and unflattering as they were – basically became a non-issue, after his asshattery.

          • akprincess72

            She even said, hey, stop calling me fat… I was furious.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

             I don’t understand the use of “This.” Are you saying, “I agree” or “You’re so right” or what?

        • sojourneryouth

           I agree–while most of the other women were fairly thin, Ven’s model wasn’t that big, either.  She probably is about a 14, as he estimated disgustedly, which is about average for “real women”.  She has a larger face, which makes her look a little bigger than what she is, I think.  I hate to put it like that, because she is lovely and deserved a kick ass outfit to show off the fact that she does have a good shape, but I think that is part of it.  And also, of course, Ven is a bitter, misogynistic dingleberry.  Imagine what Korto could have done for her!  Magic!!!

          • kikisayshi

             I hope the producers gave that woman a shopping spree or something to make up for her awful experience.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325734955 Robin K. Osterberg

            Tim should have taken her shopping!!! :)

          • Verascity

             Apparently Michael C offered to make a dress for her last night. :)

          • annieanne

            Not a chance. The only bigger assholes on that show than Ven are the producers.

          • Cautia

             ’Like’ing primarily for the Korto shout-out. Not *every* designer on this show has done poorly when designing for one of the larger clients. http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2008/09/separates-that-shouldve-been-separated-2.html

            And Uli! Uli did great without having one of the thinner clients. http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2006/08/uli-madly-deeply.html

            I’m sure it’s partially about experience designing for ‘real’ women, but it’s also attitude. These people who do so horribly when they don’t get a thin woman in these challenges don’t deserve to complain. It’s like they decide it’s impossible to make anything that will look decent on the woman, so they don’t even try.

        • annieanne

          learn to manage your image

          This. After 9 seasons, how do you not understand that those ‘confessionals’, plus every interaction between you and your client, will be edited for maximum drama? This is not the moment for baring your ugly, un-self aware soul. Swallow your distaste for ‘real’ women, paste a smile on your pretentious face, and make the kind of dress you’ve proven several times over you can produce.
          On the other hand, after 9 seasons, why would any woman larger than a size 8 even consider going on the show, knowing full well how great is the possibility of being humiliated on teevee by some asshole designer?

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            I would.  Because I’ve been called worse things by better people, and it would give me a chance to publicly argue with the designer personally instead of yelling the same things here every season.

      • http://twitter.com/PhDKnitter marlie

         You make a very good point. For all of his chatter about how talented he is, he should have been able to figure out what styles and techniques work for ANY body type. He should know how to apply the rules of fit and proportion to any client/model.

        And as if his behavior and attitude weren’t bad enough, his lack of self-awareness makes it a hundred times worse.

      • ccm800

         Just as likely. I think people are just getting overly suspicious of PR at this point – and who could blame them – but I saw no reason to call set up either.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U6HG7ZMBO4D772LQQ52GI6UHUY ElsaRox!

         EXACTLY! Ven was fat, rude, misogynist AND paranoid-what a great combination! Even if he’s aware of his (never self-acknowledged) excess weight, he apparently thinks it’s perfectly fine for MEN to be overweight, but not WOmen. Although she’s older than him & has bore 4 children; what’s HIS excuse?! There were other women there with similar body types-Gunnar pulled his lady right out of her shell & she was confident in her new attire. Ven, in contrast, chased his poor lady back into her shell like a torch-wielding villager, never once missing an opportunity to be condescending. I thought he was arrogant & incapable of a compliment before this episode; I now think he has a severe personality disorder.
         If he were “set up” (what b.s!), it would’ve been because his past body of work has shown talent & producers were confident that he was a man up for the challenge. But instead, all he showed was some rather unappealing character traits.

    • muzan-e

      Of all the things I cannot forgive – the belt. The belt was too small.  That shouldn’t be possible, because he’s got a wide enough waist himself that he understands that Not All Belts Will Fit Me – and because he has her measurements, and can measure the damn accessory before he hands it to her for a test run.  And either doing this never occurred to him, or he just didn’t care - 

      But either way, that was a piece of shit move. 

      And the only reason I could finish watching the episode was my hope that Ms Ukraine would actually come right over those cutting tables and hit him in the mouth. He fucking deserved it, for doing that to a perfectly sweet human being whose friend took her to the show so that she’d have a good time for once.

      Piece of shit. 

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        Here’s the thing with the belt: he shouldn’t have even had to measure it.  He knows that wall is stocked for models, and what the waist measurement is on his model (and they’re all about the same size).  He knows what her waist measured because he measured her for fit.  If he can’t tell the difference between a belt that will fit a size 2 and a belt that will fit a size 10 (as she said she was a 10/12 at the time), he should not be allowed anywhere near fabric with a pair of scissors. 

      • http://twitter.com/tamrals tamrals

        The whole belt debacle had me fuming.  I so wanted her to say “Let me try on yours and see if it fits”.  Props to her for not kicking his ass. 

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U6HG7ZMBO4D772LQQ52GI6UHUY ElsaRox!

           Lmao Awesome, honey!! I’m sure the irony would’ve been lost on him, but I would, at least, have a t.v moment I could rewind & watch 50 times or so.
           

  • Clueless_Jock

    I think Ven has terrible self image problems which he projected on his poor client. I’ve never cringed so much watching PR.

    • clarknt67

      I agree. I couldn’t help thinking the same. Since he’s doubtlessly self-concious about being fat in a thin industry himself, it was what he focused on relentlessly and exclusively with his client.

      The designers who succeed in this challenge consistently do so by one method: they find out what is special and beautiful about their client and build a showcase for it. Gunnar was a good example of that this time.

      Venn could find nothing to appreciate about his client, which says more about him than her.

      • Glammie

        Yep, just in case it wasn’t clear what was holding him back in the fashion industry.  No flexibility and no interest in making clothes for actual women.    The worst thing is that she looked thinner and better in her original clothes.  She’s actually not that heavy a woman–just kind of stocky, but she would have been fine in a dress.

        • http://onionjam.tumblr.com SkipperJane

          Maybe Ven should just go into home decor. Then he could make ornate rose petal pillow shams and his clients wouldn’t end up in tears.

          • Sweetbetty

             I’m sure he’d find a way to subtly insult a home dec client too.

          • Susannah Perry

             ”Try this couch.  It’s very slimming…”

      • greyhoundgirl

        Agreed.  It was a nice surprise to see Gunnar in a different light–sweet, positive, attentive, understanding–for the first time, I actually liked and respected him.

        • akprincess72

          Yes I HATED the dress, it was hideous, but I LOVED seeing his client clearly & honestly thrilled.  Her face lit up & it was awesome!

        • Kappyapp

          I can’t decide if Gunnar’s (normally) horrible attitude is all an act for the show, or if he just really hates competitors.
          But yes, clearly on Thursday she showed that he does love being a designer and making people happy through clothes – which wins him big points. 
          He’s not a terrible person to EVERYONE, just those who are his competition.

    • Topaz

      My impression is that he’s too high on his own talent to actually notice that the women he designs for are human beings, not some canvas for him to display his genius on. I get the feeling that he doesn’t give a crap if moaning about women being large makes him seem like an un-self aware hypocrite. Women are a different species to him, and they should feel ashamed if they don’t conform to a size that he’s happy dressing for. Ugh. Yeah. I’m ranting. This guy is a symptom of everything that ruins fashion for so many women, when it should be something that is fun and celebratory and that they do to feel good. Thank God the other designers proved that in this case he was just a very dick-ish minority. But at the same time, it’s not like any of those other lovely, charming designers would ever decide to break the mould and put different body types on a runway. I know that the business reality for most of them is that they have to conform to get by, but it still saddens me.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         This.  I know a great many artists of all stripes, and he seems to be one of the worst kind: the “integrity” kind.  The Sistine Chapel was done on commission, for God’s sake, by an artist who was given themes and guidelines about what to depict.  If it’s good enough for Michealanglo, it’s good enough for you.

  • http://twitter.com/BASEMENTeZine BASEMENT

    It was a great show last night.  As for Ven… he’s a Fatty Arbuckle himself and needs to reevaluate. Unfortunately… he said what everyone else would’ve thought, “Shit, why’d I have to get the fat girl.” I’m plus-size and I live in my parents’ basement FML… but I still have a fashion sense. I always look good and do it without wearing fat girls’ clothing. Most of what’s available of any quality to plus-size women is drapey, big and made with farty prints… even Michael Kors’ line, which is disappointing because I love his collection. I shop at Lord & Taylor… and love, Love, LOVE Kate Hill’s plus-size line. She makes the clothing for plus girls that everyone else is wearing… and she does it well. Isaac Mizrahi made great plus-size clothing before he went to Target. I’ve got a size 14 full-length, double-breasted, gray military coat of his that I bought in 2001 and still wear. Plus Sizers need more quality, high fashion design… period.

    • Sobaika

      Ooooo Isaac Mizrahi made excellent clothes. I loved his stuff.

      • http://twitter.com/BASEMENTeZine BASEMENT

        Have you seen any of his line on QVC…  some cute stuff.  I’ve only seen him selling on that network once but I liked a lot of what he had with him.  Of course it just nearly isn’t as quality as collection was.  Still love him.   

    • DinaSews

      I have never checked out Lord & Taylor’s plus size line so I will check it out.  Having said that, I find it even more DEPLORABLE that they did not have plus size accessories for Ven to use.  He was an a$$, but trying to squeeze into a non-plus size belt would have sent me under the table and only added to her discomfort.

      • CozyCat

        All he had to do was quickly sew her a sash to use in place of a belt.  But Ven showed this week that he really doesn’t have the type of imagination to do that kind of problem solving.

        The infamous Talbotts also seems to have a good plus size department. In particular, they have LOTS of belts in larger sizes so you don’t have to make an “enhanced” wasteline so obvious by using the last whole.

        • Sarah Dickerson

           I LOVE Talbots’ plus department for work clothes.  Sure, it’s not the most fashionable stuff in the world, but they are well made basics that can be jazzed up easily.  I’ve got a grey Talbots skirt that I’ve been wearing for at least 10 years now that still looks great.  It’s so hard to get quality in plus sizes, but they’re a nice exception, despite their reputation.

          • baxterbaby

            Yes!  At least with Talbots you get good material, not that crap most of the other plus lines use (and BASEMENT is so right about MK.  What overpriced drek.)  Since I can’t afford Lafayette 148 anymore ($700 now being the average for a jacket), I buy Talbots and have some things like jackets and skirts tailored, which is worth it because their things are made from quality fabrics.  But because I’m a 16 hourglass, the waists on the jackets are taken in, the skirts are pegged and I can always find an off the rack perfect fit in pants.  It’s not fashion forward, but it’s not frumpy either and can be styled  to look as on trend as this 59 year old cares to look!

      • http://heartprintandstyle.blogspot.com Vivi N

        Dude could’ve made a belt. All that time he used bitching about some random belt, he could’ve muttered to himself while making a belt.

        • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

          That’s what I kept yelling to him. “Make an f-ing belt, you jerk!”

      • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

        You’re right, but Ven could have redeemed himself a bit if he’d addressed it head-on:  “Tim, these belts are not working.  I need four or five in a size 14 so I can choose one that works with the garment.”  And I agree with CozyCat:  he could have just sewed her one, too, for pete’s sake!

      • http://twitter.com/MandySCG MandyJane

         It did suck that they didn’t provide different sized belts on the accessories wall, but really he should have quietly measured the belts and then quietly requested bigger ones. There was no need for him to humiliate his client that way. Even his good comments about his client seemed shitty.

        • JosephLamour

          Like, “God, I was so surprised when you came in and looked beautiful yesterday.” 

          This whole thing reminded me of the episode of Seinfeld where George Costanza wouldn’t date a bald woman. “George, YOURE bald!” 

        • muzan-e

          This. He’s a big guy himself. No-one can convince me that he’s never had trouble finding belts that will fit him. There’s no way he couldn’t have anticipated that happening and measured the belt before she got there. 

      • BerlinerNYC

         I wondered about that. It would have been so easy for them to provide some basics like bigger belts, or possibly wider shoes, given that these women were not the same narrow size range of the regular models. It not only would have made the competition more fair, but it would have been a good opportunity for L&T to advertise themselves as being for women of many sizes.

        • Susan Crawford

          When the producers know that the regular models are not going to be the clients, and that larger women are going to be on the runway, I think they should include accessories that will fit! And L&T DOES have a nice department for larger sizes, so it would have been a simple matter, production wise.

          And, as MandyJane (below) pointed out, Ven could have consulted with the production team, or Tim and explained the situation. But wait – this is Ven. So that would never happen.

          • greyhoundgirl

            Ven wouldn’t consult.  That would be beneath him.  Why consult when you already know everything?

      • http://twitter.com/PhDKnitter marlie

         Something tells me that if he’d gone to Tim or the producers off-camera and said “can you get me a few more belts in larger sizes,” they would have made it happen. I don’t believe for a second that those resources aren’t available and have never been used before.

        • Topaz

          OR they would have said “not until you’ve tried the ones available” so they could get their cringe-making footage of Ven trying out the ill-fitting belts and making his client cry.

      • kikisayshi

         He had her measurements, so he could have measured the belt in lieu of humiliating her.

    • http://heartprintandstyle.blogspot.com Vivi N

      Plus sizer, myself, and I usually shop online if I want anything that’s stylish and a bit on trend. Like ASOS, Dorothy Perkins, Evans, Simply Be. Right here on the DC soil, I do have H&M, Lane Bryant, Forever 21, etc. but those are usually hit or miss for me. I rarely shop at Macy’s, Nordstrom, Lord & Taylor, Saks, only because I’m lazy as shit and don’t like scouring racks of clothes. I’m more of an online shopper these days. Oooh, and thrifting. I don’t mind scouring racks at a thrift store because chances are what I’ll find no one else will have.

      You’re absolutely right about needing more high fashion quality plus size line that is in the same wavelength as the straight size. It’s gonna be a long day till that happens but we can definitely keep our fingers crossed. *fingers crossed*

      • agentilities

        Vivi, where are the thrift stores in DC? I would love to sort through those racks too

        • http://www.facebook.com/izzzyy Dixie Murphy Ross

           me too! all of the ones I know if in DC I can’t even fit my arm in a dress!

          • http://heartprintandstyle.blogspot.com Vivi N

            @agentilities:disqus and @facebook-10207822:disqus - Georgia Avenue Thrift Store in NW DC, Value Village Thrift Store (on the outside it’ll say Thrift Store) on University Blvd. in Aldephi (MD), Buffalo Exchange (this is a consignment store) on 14th St. NW., Village Thrift Store on North Meade Rd. in Laurel (MD) and on Annapolis Rd. in Bladensburg (MD).

            Hope that helps!

          • eclare

            I’ve been meaning to check out the one in Bladensburg, since its just down the road from me.  Maybe I’ll treat myself this weekend.

          • ASK26

             Dang I was in DC for 10 years and didn’t know about these.  Hope to check them out next time I am back.   

            I hate to say this – for fear of being stoned, but I don’t understand where ROSS gets their clothing?  I never see their stuff in the original stores.  My two best finds were a Calvin Klein suit (I had the skirt altered and it still was a good price) and a very soft (lamb?) leather jacket with a perfect fit and a cute collar and ruffle placket for…$25  – MSRP $325 IIRC

          • http://heartprintandstyle.blogspot.com Vivi N

            Ross, at one point used to be really good. Esp., around my neighborhood. Then over the years, it just started going downhill. I now prefer TJ Maxx and Marshall’s. Outta the two, I would say TJ Maxx offer the better plus size selection.

          • agentilities

            Thanks! I’ll be checking out the one on Georgia Ave

      • http://www.facebook.com/izzzyy Dixie Murphy Ross

         As another plus sizer in DC, I literally just took notes off your thread, because I’m normally not much of a shopper. Thanks for the tips! <3

      • Miss_Magpie

        Thanks for the recommendations!

      • duckgirlie

        I love New Look (in the UK, but I think they deliver internationally). It’s the only place I’ve found that sells brightly coloured skinny jeans in plus sizes. (Particularly, the only brand I’ve found that seems to understand that lots of plus sized girls would prefer the waist of their jeans to sit a little higher)

    • Jacquie Scuitto

      Plus size, low budget, so I standardize my wardrobe with jeans and simple pants plus polo shirts in summer and turtlenecks in winter in a lot of colors which I mix for variety.  Of course I am long retired so I dress for my comfort in colors I like, not worrying that much about fashion — though I still like to observe it through TLo’s eyes.
      Ven did come across as rather an ass though.  Don’t the fashion classes include anything about the aesthetics of dressing the larger woman?  After all, that includes the majority of us …

      • Call me Bee

        Hi Jacquie! It’s me Toni from the QA list. Agreed about the clothing, though I have good luck at TJ Maxx or Marshall’s.

    • batshitmomma

      No offense (actually, a compliment) size 14 is NOT plus size in the “real world”. It is actually the American norm. Of course, most high end designers don’t make it to 14 (or even 12) which is infuriating for the NORMAL person. (Spoken by someone who has been a 4 to an 18 and ticking backward)

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_H3XBSNN3JLZWI4R2EPZ2BQYT5U Suzanne S

      Fatty Arbuckle indeed, thanks for my biggest laugh of the day thus far. : )

    • akprincess72

      Thanks for the Kate Hill tip, always looking.  For work in my conservative office, I’ve been liking Eloquii, it’s owned by The Limited & while the tops are hit & miss, the accessories are great & the skirts FLATTER.  I put a pair of their tights on with one of their skirts & I look pretty good & feel like I look good!

  • Dhammadina

    Right on, T Lo.

  • GenXcellent

    I thought the same thing about Stacy and Clinton!

    • MoHub

       Or better still, Trinny and Susannah.

      • Elaine Lang

         YES.   I always thought their advice was more timeless and less “What do we have to do to make you wear pointy-toed stilettos?”

    • eclare

      Yup.  Would have made perfect sense in a challenge like this.

  • http://twitter.com/otterbird otterbird

    Fabio’s design was one of the first things in a long time on PR that I’ve really, really, really wanted for myself.

    • Spicytomato1

      It was adorable. And how thrilling to have someone custom make it just for you. But I would have really, really liked to have seen it without the belt.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=564171264 Randi Barnes Cox

      Me too. Although I thought it was a teeny bit too long for her. Just an inch or two. But I could be totally wrong–as a short, roundish girl, I’m terrible at identifying correct proportions for clothing.

      • http://twitter.com/otterbird otterbird

        I agree maybe the length was a touch too long, but it also gave the dress a cute retro flair.  I’m short, too, and confess I like slightly longer dresses, even though they aren’t necessarily the best length on me.  I think it’s a comfort thing (and not having to keep my legs mashed together on the subway.  Especially in summer time!).

      • TheDivineMissAnn

         Same here.  The dress was adorable, but I would have liked to see the length at the knee or maybe just a touch above the knee.  I’d buy that dress in a heartbeat!

    • http://twitter.com/PhDKnitter marlie

       The silhouette wasn’t anything new, but I love the originality that Fabio exhibited with the interesting colorblocking. First truly unique piece I’ve seen on PR in a long time.

    • http://beautyforrealgirls.blogspot.com/ accidental housewife

       I want that dress so much. I think it would look terrific on pretty much anyone.

    • sojourneryouth

      Could not agree more!!!  Her style and mine could not be more different, but that dress would work for me and so many women of different tastes and body types.  I love how it’s both bold and neutral, and could be styled so many different ways.  And how refreshing to find a young professional woman with the self-awareness to know that she is uncomfortable being sexualized by her clothing.  I work as an advisor at a university campus, and I WISH some of the young ladies I work with had such an understanding.  I’m no prude, and all clothes have their place and purpose, but I am so tired of barely-dressed women spilling out of their low-cut tops and low-rise jeans.  Fabio listened to his client and understood her, which is why his design rocked so hard. I could even deal with the belt, if it were shorter and thicker, but a sash would have been better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Cleary/1201575213 Patrick Cleary

    So in the next few weeks, expect Ven to get more awful (there was some sound bite of him saying something I couldn’t believe in the previews, but I’ve blocked it out), and then he’ll learn a Very Important Lesson (a la Gunnar this week) and he’ll make it to the Final 3. Because nothing is greater to this show than the beloved Redemption Arc. 

    • MoHub

       He said men were better designers than women. Aargh! Coco Chanel is spinning in her grave.

      • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

         As are Madeline Vionnet, Pauline Trigere, Claire McCardell, Else Scapiarelli, and a host of others.

        • CozyCat

          Not to mention Dianne von Furstenburg, Carolina Herrera, ….

          • wisenhar

            Stella McCartney… Oh, wait, no, he was right on that count.  :-)

          • http://twitter.com/watchinginkdry Krysta

            . . . that she’s a crap designer because she’s a woman?  pretty sure that’s not the problem . . .

          • wisenhar

            I certainly didn’t mean to imply that Stella’s a crappy designer because she’s a woman.  I was merely using her as an example of a crappy female designer.

          • Susan Collier

            Pretty sure they’re not dead yet.

          • CozyCat

            Well, they might have blown an artery watching the show last night. 

    • Rand Ortega

       Wow. They’re really going the Jeffrey from Season 3 route w/ this guy, aren’t they?

  • Ozski

    Who knew that ELENA would come off as a sweetheart in this episode???!!! That’s how unbelievably LOATHSOME  Ven was. Also, Dmitry: Ballroom Dancer! Brilliant.

    • Joe J

      Apparently there’s an easy way to tell how she’s going to be on any given day.  “Evil-ena” wears her hair up.  “Good Elena” wears her hair down. 

      And really, she should do that more often since it looks great, although I suppose it gets in her way when she sews.

      • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

         OMG you’re right!!!! 

    • Terrie_S

      I was also shocked that Gunnar came across as such a good guy this time around. Normally, I take one look at him and start muttering “Smarmy bastard.”

      • sojourneryouth

        Oh, he is a smarmy bastard alright, but he is also quite talented and professional, when he needs to be.  He absolutely knows how to treat a client.  I don’t like his character on the show at all, but I would be happy to have him make a dress for me and know he would do a good job.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           Honestly, he’d be my first choice.  He listened, he was supportive.  There was not a single part of creating that dress that he fretted over — it was all about making her feel and look good. 

    • bitchybitchybitchy

      Elena was much more likable in last night’s episode. She did a good job of working with her client.

  • http://twitter.com/shinobi42 Shinobi

      Ven was SO far out of line, I had horrible flashbacks to rude bridal consultants when he was bringing out belt after belt and being all “This belt doesn’t fit because you’re SO FAT, also BLACK IS SLIMMING< SLIMMING IS IMPORTANT."  What a dick. 

    I'd love for PR to get a bunch of real "Fatsionistas" on this show and
    torture the designers with them.  If they are complaining about
    designing for a size 14, lets see them handle my size 26 ass.  Some of us larger women aren't ashamed of how we look, we just want to be able to get cute clothes that fit us and aren't all about hiding things.  I think that would be a real challenge for the designers.  Designing for a normal sized woman does not a real challenge make.

    • kattyatlaw

       re: the belts. HE TOOK HER MEASUREMENTS. HE KNEW THE SIZE OF HER WAIST. HE COULDN’T TAKE A FREAKING TAPE MEASURE TO THE BELTS *BEFORE* BRINGING THEM OVER TO HER??? so so so annoyed.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

         excellent point

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_63FW2Y5BWUARL7PJGWK54TUDGE Carrieanno

        So true.  Even for a size 6 – 8, some belts are way long, some just the right size, and some are actually too short. 

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         He didn’t need to!  How could he not look at the belt and see that it wouldn’t fit?!?  He knew her measurement and he could see the belt!  The man makes a living on CLOTHING.  If he couldn’t see that the belt was too short to fit her by looking, then I wouldn’t trust him around my fabric with anything sharper than Play Doh scissors.

    • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

       The way to put it to a client is to say, “I’m requesting some new belts, cause I don’t think any of these are right, and I want it to be right for you.”

      • SapphoPoet

        Exactly. Or tell them you don’t like the material/texture/colors available. Jeez.

        • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

           As a designer, myself, I never EVER refer to a client’s body, proportions, or level of fitness, unless it is going to be in a complementary way.  Anything else is a short road to a bad time with your client.

          • siriuslover

            this is where the contrast with Gunnar was so stark last night. He treated his client beautifully. I think last night showed his real people skills, but I’ll save that for the Gunnar recap.

          • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

            I know, I was cursing at the television:  “Oh, great, now I’m going to have to like this motherfucker!” :)

          • Miss_Magpie

            Me, too!

          • YousmelllikeAnnaWintour

            I was thinking the same thing!!!  You know Ven has to be totally repulsive when GUNNAR of all people starts being the nice one!!!

          • bitchybitchybitchy

            Perhaps Gunnar was putting on the bitchy demeanor that has been so annoying, and he’s actually more pleasant…just a thought…

          • akprincess72

            THAT my darling is something that keeps your clients coming back.  Honestly, everyone likes to be treated nicely!!!

      • http://twitter.com/urban_gypsy Tess Danesi

        You are a lovely person. Ven is an automaton. When I need a way to diplomatically state something, may I call on you? :-)

        • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

          First of all, Tess, thanks so much for that sweet compliment. I’m flattered.
          And to answer your question, anytime at all, m’dear.

          • http://twitter.com/urban_gypsy Tess Danesi

            A lovely man…in a kilt. Is there a better combo? I think not.

          • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

            (blushing)

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

             BTW, what is with the kilt thing?  How did you get started on wearing one, ’cause I know you said that you wear them all the time?  Are you Scottish or did you just like them?  I’m very curious now…

          • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

            I was given a kilt many years ago, by my then partner. I loved how it looked, the compliments I got and how comfortable it was. Over time, one turned into more. Then I discovered our family clan connection ( Douglass), and then started making some of my own. It’s been my signature for several years now.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

             I love kilts, so without even seeing them, you can add another compliment to the list — of course, as a Stewart, I’m pretty much honor bound to like them ;)

          • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

            Of course you are. Us plaidy types gotta stick together.

          • http://twitter.com/Alloyjane Alloy Jane

            How funny!  Your ancestral spirit probably attracted you to the kilt you were given.  So do family clans have specific plaids, like a family crest or something?  When I think of kilts, I always think of Samurai Jack and the Scottish dude with a machine gun for a leg.  Those episodes are hilarious.

          • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

            Yeah, each clan has a tartan, or tartans that are specific to them. I get my coonection to the Douglass clan through my mother’s side of the family. My dad’s side is all Hungarian Gypsies, which made for some interesting familial dynamics as a kid.

        • Rand Ortega

           2nd that!

      • muzan-e

        Because the clothes may be broken, but the human being in front of you certainly isn’t.

        Thank you. For saying it perfectly. 

        • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

          In this case, Muzan-e, I insist on taking the back seat to you. “The clothes may be broken, but the human being in front of you certainly isn’t.”, is brilliant, touching, and deeply true.  My hat is off to you, for such a thought.

    • siriuslover

      OMG, how stupid is he? It’s almost like he did that on purpose. The accessories wall is designed for the MODELS who come in, not regular people jackass. He could simply have said there wasn’t a belt on the wall suited to his design and he asked to order another. But no, he freaking makes her try on a belt that is obviously not going to fit. JACKASS. He better not win PR (you hear that producers???).

      • Cat

        He absolutely did it on purpose.  He set out to shame her as much as he could so he could blame it all on her body when his garment wasn’t up to par.   If he wins this season I will never, ever, ever watch another second of PR. 

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI yahoo-FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI

        As someone who can get very people challenged, I must say that if you are “stupid” that way, it’s not a simple thing to say diplomatically that there isn’t a belt suited to your design.  You have to think about it long and hard to get a good answer.  Which you don’t do very well under stress.  

        Ven may be a jerk, and acts egotistical to the max, but he also is probably very inexperienced in both life and work.  Getting around not having natural empathy (living life is the best cure for this, but our fashion contestants are almost all under 40) is difficult but it can be done.  Step one is understanding just how very important people skills are to nearly everyone on the planet, if not to you.  Step two is understanding that what you see emotionally in your client is not necessarily what they are thinking (ie outright rudeness and yelling always come off as bad no matter how well the other person takes it).  Step three is to understand that not yelling does not go far enough.  Step four is to work on finding that connection so that everyone can be nudged onto the same side, and this is a two-way adjustment, not only about making them bend to you.

        • bitchybitchybitchy

          I think you hit on what appears to be a serious problem for Ven, in what appears to be a lack of empathy.  A very thoughtful post.

        • siriuslover

          I see your point about my choice of words, but I didn’t mean literally “stupid” per the dictionary definition. I am a total wallflower and prefer to do business via email. I get it. But I also have a job that requires me to totally ham it up with people. I know what I have to do when I go to work, and one of the main things is not to be offensive. Fashion designers do not sit in unpopulated rooms away from the rest of the world. If Ven is as great as he says he is and wants to make it in business (and have repeat clientele), he needs to develop some people skills, per your instructions above. Perhaps Ven ought to read some of those self-help books about introverts becoming extroverts.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI yahoo-FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI

            Yes, Ven wants to make it in business and have repeat clientele, those people skills are critical.   Humility and willingness to accept others are important too.  If you’re ambitious but people-challenged, you hopefully will realize what you must work on very quickly and the sooner the better.  At very least a quick fix can get you to the point where you get to stay in the industry instead of having to do some totally different sort of job that doesn’t suit you at all.  Said as an introvert who learned to adopt a degree of extroversion and even embrace it at times (didn’t hurt that my father was a total extroverted sparkly personality who knew its value).  

          • turtleemily

            Just a nitpick, but being introverted versus extroverted doesn’t involve social skills – it’s where you get your energy from. Introverts can be talking to people all day but then need to spend some quiet time alone to recharge.

          • siriuslover

            I was responding to the comment above mine, and even if he isn’t a true introvert, he could still benefit from those books about dealing with people.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI yahoo-FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI

            Yes, I agree that social skills are not necessarily related to introversion and extroversion.  And empathy absolutely is not, that’s something else again.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4G6WAXHYVJCNN7FIMVZHCAR6YY Ida

       I would love to see an episode using plus-size models!  Gorgeous women , consistent curves and no out for the designers!

      • http://twitter.com/shinobi42 Shinobi

         There are some great fashion forward plus size outlets whose designers could come on and judge.  I just feel like they completely ignore a huge segment of the market on this show.

    • piecesofconfetti

       I haven’t watched the episode yet, but couldn’t he have just made a belt out of leftover fabric?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRM766RS56X25A5742XLACK2LM Sam

        Like he had any left over fabric, he dressed that poor girl’s top in a tent.

    • eclare

      Ugh.  I’m wedding dress shopping right now. It is the WORST!

      • ASK26

         And don’t they mis-size those anyway?  It has been a long time since I was in a wedding party – but I seem to recall being a size 14 and being forced to order like a 20 or 22 ?

        • Buffy

          I used to work in bridal and they always told us that the samples/patterns are cut on junior-size models, not missy size, so even smaller than usual.  So you will not even be the same size as you would buy off the rack.  Why I have no idea.  So there were always a lot of tears and arguments when you measured for ordering the dress, no matter how much you explained.  I actually got into an argument in the opposite way when I was a bridesmaid, I wanted the bigger size and had to sign a waiver that I wouldn’t try to return it.  It fit perfectly, no alterations needed.

    • DaveinAlamitosBeach

      I adore the term Fastionista!  Though I suppose not everyone would be able to use the term and not look evil.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YAMNQMUGFM4NNSPAQLZRODSD5I Angela

       Yeah, I’ve never really heard size 14 referred to as “plus size” before! I thought that was supposed to be the most average size for an American woman…
      At any rate, the one thing you Do Not do for someone with a larger waist, is tie them in a knot in the middle like a sack of potatoes! He should have been sent home for that hideous outfit ~ I don’t think it would have looked good even if the woman was the typical “hanger with a head” model size. Yuck.

    • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

       Not true.  There is nothing that different from dressing a plus size than dressing a size 2, IF IT IS CUSTOM (that removes market issues).  And there is no such thing as a “normal” woman — average and normal are VERY different things.  I would love to dress you, because I find women like you (your attitude about your size, not your size — that I just find unimportant) are more help in coming up with the perfect look.  I have no doubt you could tell me plenty about what you’d like and wouldn’t like. 

  • Spicytomato1

    I don’t think I can say anything that already hasn’t been said. The whole episode, and Ven’s atrocities in particular, felt especially contrived to me. I’m not defending him at all, because he could have taken the high road (like Gunnar) and not given the producers so much material to work with. I feel like the producers were more focused on making sure someone insulted a “real woman” than on transforming them and making them happy. Like TLo said, it felt dirty.

    • Violina23

      Exactly. He could have expressed his frustration on the inequality of the whole thing (which is, to a degree, valid), but said “Whatever, this is reality TV, I’m gonna make this woman look FIERCE”.  

      • siriuslover

        the producers didn’t script his attitude or what came out of his mouth. And after hearing what he has to say about women designers for next week’s episode, I’m lumping chauvinist into my description of him.

        • Spicytomato1

          You’re right, but they had a roomful of other designers and clients and friends, most with more positive experiences, and they chose to put his story arc front and center. Believe me I think he’s an ass but in showcasing that they also put his client, in all her unhappiness, in the spotlight, which could not have been fun for her at all.

    • http://iamthelizardqueen.wordpress.com Lizzie

      Precisely: I may reevaluate this idea when it comes time for Gunnar’s post, but I think both Ven and Gunnar–the recent “villains”–were given clients that the producers expected them to be challenged by.  Gunnar–bless his squeaky little heart–took it in stride and did his best to make the client happy.  Ven took one look at his client (apprehensive, jeans and t-shirt, size 14) and had a complete and utter Ven-style meltdown.  It’s the 10th damn season of the show, kiddo–you really weren’t expecting the producers to try to fuck with you at some point?  Please.  Allow me to serenade you with the world’s tiniest robot violin…

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         He not only gave it his best, but when she started to feel self-conscious about her size, he brought her right back around and was so supportive of her. 

      • VictoriaDiNardo

        And speaking of the jeans and t-shirt, she looked better in those body-hugging pieces than the tent-top he tried to “slim” her in.  I think his eye is for the form of the garment, not the woman, thus, if he has curves to work with and not a hanger, he crashes.

  • http://twitter.com/thedogsmother thedogsmother

    Dear Lifetime,
    If you want real women bring back the Drag Queen challenge…

    • CrazyAuntie

      And Chris March too!!

      • http://twitter.com/thedogsmother thedogsmother

         If Ven wanted to be rude to a Drag Queen about her size she could deck him….

        • formerlyAnon

           Ahh, but most successful Drag Queens are too much the lady (or at least too shrewd) to do so on t.v., when they could just read his ass up one side and down the other.  The very few whom I’ve actually met (well, o.k., two) had tongues sharper than their wits, which is saying a lot.

        • Catiline

          Can you imagine Ven trying his plus-size complaining on Latrice Royal?   Bwahahaha.

          (Not that I would wish Ven on Miss Latrice, though.)

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/J5QKZG5NFXQE3MLXFN3MAQDUTA Mary Stone

             I would pay 6 months’ salary to watch Latrice  Royale do the cool jerk all over him, preferably in a pair of 4 inch platform stilettos…with actual stillettos for heels.  Bonehead wouldn’t know what hit him.

  • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

    For me I was hoping for Dmitri to finally get his long overdue win.  Especially since the judges were uniform in their complete praise of his work and styling.   While I do love Fabio’s dress, and don’t have an issue with his win, really. There was one thing that bugged me, and Alice Temperley said it moments after it popped out of my mouth. Hate the belt. Lose it.

    I am Very Sad that Nathan is leaving.  Tim’s clearly heartfelt praise of him as a person, made me smile. Its what I had thought of Nathan all along.

    Ven?  Get some therapy, dude.

    • SRQkitten

      Yes, Dmitri is long overdue for a win. And as we get to this point of the season where past wins do seem to matter (as in the individuals who haven’t won appear more likely to get auf’d) that’s a bit disconcerting.

      LOVED Fabio”s look for his client and his clear vision of her needs in his makeover – complete antithesis of Ven-the-asshole (Vta from here on?). Vta wiped out his fan base, such as it was, in one ongoing fit of poor behavior throughout this episode.

      And yeah, am sure there’s producer manipulation at work here. Wish when they do these “real women” challenges, they’d have a consistent plus-size group of women to equalize things. think that would push the envelope a whole lot more when everyone is working on a size 18+ model.

      srq

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         I would love to see a plus-size challenge. 

      • Vlasta Bubinka

        But if they use “industry” plus size models, the models will likely be in the size 8- 12 range.

    • Spicytomato1

      I also wanted Dmitri to win but I felt like his fate was sealed when the judges decided that Fabio’s dress showed a bit more of the flair they had been wanting to see from him. And, while it was a close call, I think his model’s transformation was even more dramatic than Dmitri’s.

      I’m also Very Sad about Nathan, too. What a great guy.

      • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

        It’s quite clear that they are going to keep Dmitri waiting, but I smell a turn towards final three for him, when it comes to it.

      • bitchybitchybitchy

        I would have been delighted with a Dmitri win, but I think that Fabio’s look was so exactly right for his client, and the way that they seemed to click gave him the win. 

      • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

        While I liked Dmitri’s dress, the bottom was very tight. I was surprised nobody mentioned that.

  • GenXcellent

    I’m not sure when this was filmed…but I felt like Heidi was dying to make a ’50 shades of gray’ comment when they were judging Fabio’s dress.

    • Spicytomato1

      Haha, I thought the same thing. Thank goodness she refrained.

    • Sweetbetty

       Even when Fabio commented early on that he wanted to use shades of grey I was waiting for that reference to come up, and I’m sure that book was widely known when they were taping this show.

  • afabulous50

    I have no words for Ven….well, except one….MIRROR.

    • Charis G

      “Pot, this is kettle — you’re black.

      And it’s not particularly slimming on you either.”

  • Tawreos

    Just once I would love to see the judges/producers take into account the sliminess of the designer’s behavior when deciding the auf.  Did anyone else see who was in the bottom three and even before the critiques know that Nathan was going to go? 

    • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

       From a purely design standpoint, Nathan was the weakest of the three, not just because of his work last night, but all along.  He had not ever really inspired or impressed the judges, (or anyone else for that matter). Songia, has turned it out more than once now, and credit where it is due, Ven, for all his myriad faults, has talent and skills.  So, yeah, I was expecting it to happen, if not last night then very soon.  It saddens me, though cause I think Nathan is clearly a great person.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         I liked his portfolio from before the show.  I think he was one who just doesn’t have a lot of WOW moments, focusing instead on more of a high-end department store kind of thing.

        • http://joyouslifesf.wordpress.com Kiltdntiltd

          And I have no doubt that he will move forward in his career. I wish him all the best possible fortune.

          • Susan Crawford

            He’s very young, and I believe he has loads of potential. Time, experience and – I hope – some solid mentoring along the way will help Nathan along. I has a sad, because he was just beginning to emerge from the background, and he was so lovely and engaging. Aaaand, of course loveliness and being engaging will get you aufed, while outrageous behavior is encouraged.

    • http://twitter.com/stellaphone Stella Zawistowski

      But they do take it into account! In fact, I think that’s ALL they’re thinking about: “This person is slimy and awful, so we have to keep him for more drama.” After a producer has whispered this in their ears, of course.

      • Tawreos

         Sadly this is the truth.

  • http://twitter.com/karenwalsh Karen Walsh

    I think the win and auf were spot on, but I’m really angry at Ven, who was, until last night, one of my faves. It’s obvious he’s insecure about his own body and projected that on his poor client.  Keep your crap to yourself, and do what needs to be done for your client!  Take a lesson from Gunnar, who can definitely be bitchy and insecure, but then treated his client so sweetly.

    • CozyCat

      Respectful disagreement here:  I don’t think “insecure” is a word that can be applied to Ven.  I really don’t think he thinks there’s anything at all wrong with him, including his appearance (I used to work for a guy who made it clear he thought he was a stud.  He was shaped a lot like Ven.  Some people just wear blinders when they look in the mirror.)

      • ASK26

        hehe.   (or here here)   I worked with this guy when the Monica Lewinsky / Bill Clinton “affair” was in the news.  This co-worker started slamming her – how could Clinton go for her, she was such a cow, and he’d never touch HER.    Let me tell you I was disgusted – this guy was in his mid-50′s (I think) greasy half bald comb over and ….. missing half his teeth (including front teeth).      DE LU SION AL

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           In a no-way-related-to-anything, I never got the slams on her.  It’s not like she was a troll.  Yes, she wasn’t a supermodel, but neither are most women.

        • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

          Every man, no matter how disgusting he looks, thinks he should have the most desirable women. Maybe it has something to do with Darwin and natural selection to insure the survival of the species.

    • ampg

      I think Gunnar’s bitchiness was mostly an act for the cameras to get himself through the first few weeks.  He seems to be dropping the act and is turning out to be a very sweet person.  But of course, the ridiculousness of reality television is such that he probably wouldn’t have been cast without the bitchy persona (in fact, that’s probably why he was cut at the beginning last season).

  • Chickadeep

    “Asshole.”

    Spot-on one-word review. That picture and that caption summed up my entire viewing experience last night. Ugh.

  • Susan Collier

    Oy. Yes, Jeffery Sebelia Award for Least Sensitive Designer. Every season has one. At least Ven didn’t tape bolts of fabric to his model stand to replicate his model’s physique.

    I really hate how they’re providing a new designer to hate every episode: Gunnar (ep 1), Christopher (eps 2-4), Elena (ep 5), and now Ven (ep 6). He’ll probably return to default factory mode robot next week.

    Aside from the top two dresses last night, how did all the rest of the outfits not wind up in the bottom? Horrible clothes to “make over” these poor Real Women. I’d beat up my coworker if she submitted my butt to be made over by these clowns.

    Loved Fabio’s dress. It’s so funny because the dress is such a late 50s/early 60s silhouette—very Mad Men. Wish I had one!

    Goodbye Nathan. You made your Real Woman look like a hooker working behind the skating rink.

    • l_c_ann

      Jeffrey’s dress for Angela’s Mom was way worse than last night’s looser. How the world would have shifted – had he been time transported to last night.

      • bitchybitchybitchy

        I think that dress prompted MK’s remark that it looked like Commes Des Garcons do Amish Country.  It was so unflattering.

    • Tatiana Luján

      Melissa’s outfit should have been in the bottom.

      • http://twitter.com/urban_gypsy Tess Danesi

        I have no idea what it looked like. That shawl was a terrible idea, it hid the dress and made it impossible to judge (for me).

        • bitchybitchybitchy

          The proportion of the shawl to the dress was really odd-very unbalanced.

      • ampg

        They wouldn’t waste a bottom 3 slot on someone with immunity, though.

        • http://twitter.com/urban_gypsy Tess Danesi

          They have done in the past but usually it’s such an egregious sin of a garment that they really had little choice. And this, from what I could see if it, looked dull but not particularly offensive.

    • http://heartprintandstyle.blogspot.com Vivi N

      I never pay attention to those ‘here’s who we have lined up as a designer you won’t like’ episode. Never have, never will. I just go with the flow. I’m still not a Gunnar fan (both personality and work wise). Ven showed his true self from day 1 and I always said that he can talk all the shit he wants because he can back it up with his work. Yes, this episode really showed how vile he is but he’s still a great designer. If he makes a pretty dress next week, I’m gonna acknowledge it. Gotta separate the work from the personality. Also, I pay more attention to what the other contestants have to say about that person. Because they have lived/been with them almost everyday, 24/7. They would know what’s up more than we do.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         I won’t separate the work from the personality for Lagerfeld, I am sure as hell not going to do it for this one way monkey.

        • http://heartprintandstyle.blogspot.com Vivi N

          LMAO! Your comment made my morning.

          I understand, wholly, why folks choose to do that. But it’s just not in my system.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            You ever see the scene where Julia Roberts goes shopping in Pretty Woman and stops back by the shop where they were rude to her?  Yeah, it’s like that.

        • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

          Couldn’t have said it better myself!

      • NotTheTodd

        He isn’t a great designer – he’s a silk chiffonzie! Who the fuck wears that fabric in any kind of normal situation?

      • akprincess72

        Except he DIDN’T back it up with his work… If he’s that kick-ass of a designer, he could have EASILY made her look GOOD.  

        • http://heartprintandstyle.blogspot.com Vivi N

          Well, duh. This week he definitely made THE most ill-fitting outfit just to prove a point to himself that plus size women does not deserve to be designed by him. He’s an absolute prick for that. And that little point almost got him voted off. (Of course, that was never gonna happen. Not over the producers dead, limp bodies.)

          BUT

          He’s still a great designer. I’m basing it from his previous work prior to the last challenge.

    • Sweetbetty

       ”At least Ven didn’t tape bolts of fabric to his model stand to replicate his model’s physique.”

      Even though I’d hate to see it done if I was the client, padding a dress form to more closely replicate the person’s body is a good practice.  I don’t know if it would have resulted in a better outcome for Ven’s design.  I think it was more evidence of how he just didn’t have his heart in what he was doing.  At least then he could have tried belts on the dress form and eliminated them without the client having to witness it.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QFW22QV426LUOEPGASPZJWJMDE MishaFoomin

        Ven has a heart?? Who knew robots had hearts.

  • not_gwen

    Nathan’s dress seems like something you would see at Express – birght, shiny, and a little tacky

    • lovelyivy

       Spot on! All it’s missing are sequins.

    • MoHub

       Or maybe on Heidi. Couldn’t believe she criticized it for being “hoochie mama” when it looked like something from her wardrobe.

      • CozyCat

        I love that they had to “translate” that term for the guest judge.

        • ampg

          And that Kors knew the British translation right off the top of his head.

  • EzzyV

    As soon as I saw Nathan’s garment, I knew he was a lock to go home. 

    Sometimes I do wish they would eliminate based on attitude. Ven would have been gone this week if that were the case. (Whole seasons would be changed with attitude based eliminations.) If Elena thinks you are being an ass, then you are probably being an ass.

    Also, Gunnar’s model was maybe a size smaller than Ven’s and she looked fun and sassy. (Yes it was in black but I don’t remember if that was a requested element.)

  • http://twitter.com/SparklyCasanova UglyCasanova

    I have to disagree with the win, looking artsy is one thing, looking home-crafty-because-you-are-on-a-budget is another.  I thought it should have gone to Dimitry even though it looks like some of his other dresses he’s made.

    • l_c_ann

      I think uglycasanova just explained why I have sketched out the winning dress and plan to make it from seersucker for next summer.  (And maybe from corduroy as a winter jumper.  )

      I really liked the color blocking (and that’s a first.)

      • janierainie

        Yes, the color blocking was so subtle it was amazing. 

    • ASK26

      I didn’t see the whole show – but I did have to wonder how that dress won.  It was okay but I agree that it looks”crafty” / homemade as well.

      • Spicytomato1

        I can’t say for sure but my sense was that he got the win not because they thought his design was ultra fashion forward but because he transformed his client so dramatically. She was, as Kors put it, dressed like a lumberjack and he managed to make her a dress that she would want to wear. Plus he steered her toward that kick ass haircut.

        • Sweetbetty

           And I loved how the back of the haircut followed the line of the blocking on the back of the dress.  That shows that he thought about the whole package.  I must say, though, that I hated those bootie shoes but I always hate them with dresses.

    • eclare

      Really?  I can see how the late-’70s retro color-blocking and shape could make it seem home-crafty in terms of its style, but it is so impeccably made and well fitted. I think the end result is pretty darn chic and modern.

      • http://twitter.com/SparklyCasanova UglyCasanova

        Yes, really.  The length I found awkward, the front blocking is odd, the back is okay.  I’m not saying it’s a bad dress, I just don’t think it should have won.  

  • http://www.thirteen.org/downton-abbey/category/the-downton-dish/ Gotham Tomato

    Like I tweeted last night: when was the last time Ven backed up to a mirror??? He has got to have the wort EQ of just about anyone I’ve ever seen.

    And poor Nathan- if only the challenge was ‘make over your client into a Kardashian’, he might have won it.

    – GothamTomato

    • Violina23

      Most Hilarious. Challenge. EVUH.  I’m on board!

    • Rand Ortega

       GT! It’s been awhile! How the heck are you?!! Always great to see your clever bon mots in the TLo BK/PUF universe!

      • http://www.thirteen.org/downton-abbey/category/the-downton-dish/ Gotham Tomato

        Thanks! I have (temporarily) switched from freelance work to a day job where I can’t check Tlo during the day, because the internet is filtered – the bastards!) They have no concept of what’s important.

        –GothamTomato

        • bitchybitchybitchy

          GT, when I was in the working world I worked at the Dept. of Justice in D.C., and the filters were unbelievable-merely typing the word “breast” would get the internet stinkeye.

  • VRuss

    They owe Ven’s client BIG time… BM should give her a huge Lord & Taylor gift card ot make it up to her in some way… No one should be humiliated that way on national television, ever.

    I do think Ven should have gone home. His outfit was hideous, but worse of all, he didn’t pay any attention to his client or her
    needs and he treated horribly! Even Elena and some of the others were nice toward their clients…..

    Agree with the win.

    • http://twitter.com/urban_gypsy Tess Danesi

      Anyone who goes on any sort of reality TV should be prepared for public humiliation. To my great disgust, it’s the way of that genre and America gobbles that shit up as if it were caviar. However, if there was a reality show I’d ever consider going on and expect halfway decent treatment, it would be PR. The fact that they had one clueless, arrogant, asshat of a designer on PR, who reduced his client to tears really grates on my last nerve with this show. I wanted to reach through the screen and throttle his rather wide ass.

      I so wish Teri or her friend would have said, “So Ven, if black is so slimming why are you wearing tan?”

      I do hope BM has a way to make it up to her. And yes, a spending spree at L&T would do it rather nicely.

      • Spicytomato1

        I’d normally agree but in this instance the “clients” were told they’d be getting a makeover, which connotes tears of joy and gratefulness. No one expects such humiliation, even though it wasn’t really directed at her personally. By the judges anyway.

      • julnyes

        The only reality show I would set foot on and expect decent treatment is TLC’s What Not To Wear because the hosts Stacy and Clinton are saintly.

    • ampg

      Well, not that she deserved it, but I think PR has been on long enough that you have to know what you’re getting into with the “real woman” challenge.

      • Sweetbetty

         I got the feeling Ven’s client was less than enthusiastic about being there but was prodded on by her helpful friend.  With the client’s schedule, I wonder if she’s ever even watched PR.  Someone else commented that they had seen the friend on another reality show so I get the feeling she’s a reality show junkie and was the force behind the client being on the show.

        • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

          The friend seemed very familiar to me. Anyone know what show she was on?

    • CrazyAuntie

      I agree that PR owes Ven’s client …. and her amazing friend should get a little something too.

      • bitchybitchybitchy

        I thought the friend was overly emotional on the runway-I’m sorry, but that speech about the four hour commute. Yes, I understand that she wanted her friend to have a great experience, but how much coaxing was done to elicit that Lifetime teary moment from her? Yes, I’m that cynical about Bunim-Murray.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           Not when you find out why they went on the show — Terri had been through a prolonged medical battle that had taken its toll on her, with a side effect of weight gain.  I’m sure the friend thought this would help her see that she’s still a beautiful woman (because having been there, I can tell you, you feel like even if it doesn’t kill you, it’s killed part of you)  Instead Ven managed the exact opposite.

          • http://twitter.com/sprigged Sprigged

            Oh Geez. When I thought I couldn’t dislike Ven more.

          • DeborahJozayt

            Is there a way to find out who this person is? I definitely felt her pain and would like to send her a card, maybe a little gift, something like that. Would you be able to help?

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

             If you look at her Twitter, she has her email address up as well. It’s @terriherlihy23 on Twitter, I’m sure she’d appreciate the support:)

          • bitchybitchybitchy

            I hadn’t checked the backstory for the clients. That explains  Terri and her friend’s reaction. I ought to have taken into account that they might have been on the runway for an extended period of time, which would be really tiring-plus, they were probably both trying to be polite and civil to Ven, which also would have been trying.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

             She mentioned it on her Twitter feed, otherwise I wouldn’t know it either. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/R3DYATQM2QRPBUMNUW4YISMZ6Q Jane

    I suspect that Ven has Asbergers.   It would account for his robotic affect and lack of apparent empathy.

    • Violina23

      People brought this up on the T-Lounge a lot:  I think he’s just a self-absorbed asshole who can’t understand why non-model-shaped women are populating his sphere of influence.  This wasn’t him mis-reading the emotional/social nuances of his client — the second he SAW Her, he was filled with negativity and disdain because he didn’t think he should have to dress someone like that.

      • ampg

        I don’t think it goes quite that far – I think TLo were spot on when they said that he’s a consummate competitor and saw right away that this would put him at a disadvantage.  Of course, a designer who makes their plus-size client look good ALWAYS gets top 3 and has the judges fawn all over them, but it’s still a gamble, and it’s one he obviously didn’t want to take.

        • Violina23

          Yeah, I don’t disagree about the fairness, but he decided at THAT POINT that he was a victim, and that this woman was there solely to make his life miserable, and essentially tried to martyr his way through to the next round.

      • Kimbolina

        Exactly, it was sort of like, “how DARE her body not fit in with my aesthetic!”

    • SapphoPoet

      I think he just has a very narrow focus and range of work and who he wants to work with. 

    • stellans

      Not every asshole has Asperger’s; sometimes they’re just assholes.

    • JuliaInBlack

      My money’s on Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    • Spicytomato1

      As the parent of an Aspie, I think Ven is an asshole, plain and simple. An arrogant, competitive one. Other than his somewhat robotic affect, nothing about his mannerisms say Asperger’s to me. And, in fact, contrary to popular belief Aspies tend to be more empathetic and sensitive than most neurotypical people.

      • BelleBook

        As somebody who has Asperger’s Syndrome myself, I know that I’m usually very empathetic — or at least try to be.  I think the guy was just an inflexible “maroon”, as the immortal Bugs Bunny would say.  :D

    • alula_auburn

      I work (and have lived with) with a LOT of people on the spectrum, and I’m really sick of seeing that dragged out as an excuse, tbh. If anything, he had a level of nastiness that I think was not robotic or affectless, and based on his tweets and earlier runway moments, he’s quite able to comport himself differently if it’s in his own interests. Adults with AS often can and do work extremely hard to be aware of their own communication or interpretative differences, and it’s extremely frustrating to see people e-diagnose all assholes as having AS.

      (admittedly, my fuse is a bit shortened by some other recent incidents in other spheres, notably Rene Walling and Readercon. But it really is not helpful or sympathetic to immediately apply the Aspberger’s label as a justification for cloddish, cruel behavior.)

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         I personally feel that if you can’t be bothered to go see a doctor and get officially diagnosed with whatever ails you, you don’t get any slack for it.  If you aren’t concerned enough to help yourself, why should I be?  But then, I’m kind of a bitch about that sort of thing.

  • GorgeousThings

    The one episode every season that has 75% of the viewing audience throwing vases, drinks, throwpillows, children, or whatever else they can get their hands on in the throes of their rage, at their TV screens!
    I would have lobbed Hoover, my Border Collie, at the TV when Ven was assholing all about how his client was too big for any of the belts (Asshole!), but Hoover is no dope and ran upstairs and hid under the bed the minute he smelled a “real woman” challenge.

    • MoHub

       T-Lo forgot about throwing cats. If only Kenley were back. NOT!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ginny-Ellsworth/534496198 Ginny Ellsworth

      I would have tossed my youngest but he is 150 lbs. now and I don’t think I could have reached the tv with him. 

    • angryparsnip

       ack… You have a Hoover?  Love love love !
      One of my Scotties was named Kirby for the vacuum, because anything that was on the floor was hers ! Food never hit the floor though because she would inhale it in the air !
      I was starting to name all our dogs after vacuums but thought after I worked through Hoover, Oreck, Eureka, would be hard yelling  “Electrolux Electrolux come home ” I didn’t know about Dyson at the time, great name .

      cheers,  parsnip

      • GorgeousThings

        Hoover isn’t very aptly named. We named him before his personality started manifesting itself. He won’t touch vegetables, and only deigns to eat his kibbles when all other options are exhausted! :)

  • dress_up_doll

    Nathan was such a cutie and a sweetheart. I should’ve seen it coming, what with all the screen time he got last week and this week. Yeah, have to agree with TLo. His dress was pretty awful and unflattering. As for Ven —- he’s dead to me.

  • Violina23

    Who *hasn’t* had a situation in their career where the circumstances were not exactly equal, or were unfair? Where people who are less qualified sometimes get off easy, etc etc.  The difference is that if you’re GOOD, you’ll push through and rise to the challenge.  Insults to this woman aside, that kind of victim attitude pisses me off.  If you want to be there, and you want to WIN The competition, you have to accept the [possibly unfair] reality show “rules” and do your best.  God, I’m surprised he didn’t ask Tim Gunn to make another designers switch with him.

    Maybe because I’m not a small woman myself, but Ven’s vileness was physically making me uncomfortable while watching. I know what it’s like to be at the receiving end of such passive-agressive negativity — where nobody’s calling you fat DIRECTLY, but they are implying it with every comment, gesture, sigh, etc… it eats away at any sense of confidence you might have been hanging on to.

    I was expecting worse from Nathan, to be honest. I thought Gunnar’s in particular was overscored, based purely on the fact that the judges got such a kick out of his model.

    • Shoelover1512

      I agree completely. Since when has life been fair? Yes I may complain that a situation isn’t fair at work but I know at the end of the day it’s up to me to get through it and show that I still kick ass even when I’m getting the short end of the stick or wallow in self pity. And i gotta say, kicking ass just feels better.

      To me the worst thing he said to me was the comment after she got her hair cut about being shocked at how beautiful she looked. Gee thanks buddy, obviously I was garbage before.

      • Violina23

        Yeah — it’s not like I’m saying that people should just accept injustices, but throwing a tantrum and playing the victim is not the way to make it better. 

        • Shoelover1512

          Absolutely not. And it’s not like everyone in the room got a model and he got a size 18 woman. There were a lot of different shapes. My best friend is thinner than I am, probably a size 12 and I’m a 16. But i have a defined hourglass shape, she is pear shaped, even though I’m bigger I have an easier time dressing than she does. And it’s a REALITY COMPETITION lol where in the contract you signed did it say every challenge was going to be 100% fair. And I don’t6 think it was unfair to be honest. Manipulated, sure but not unfair. Get over yourself buddy.

      • 3boysful

         And the really worst thing was you could tell by her expression that she made the same leap you did.  I wanted to cry for her.

        • Shoelover1512

          Backhanded compliments are always my favorite…lol LIke do people really just not get that what they’re saying is hurtful?

          My roommate in college said to me once that I was beautiful for a heavy girl. Sooooo that means if I wasnt heavy I would be gross?

          • Sweetbetty

             I used to work with a woman who was a master of the backhanded compliment.  If I got my hair cut she complimented me on it then added how much better it looked since it wasn’t hanging in limp strings anymore.  If I lost weight she’d comment on how good a particular garment I was wearing looked now that it was hanging on me correctly rather than looking like I was stuffed into it.  She did it with others too and always reacted with wide-eyed innocence whenever she was called out on it.

          • YousmelllikeAnnaWintour

            That’s why it is always good to have an extra set of keys to all the desks in the office.  Certain people need to have their desks locked and not be able to figure out how it happened.  :)

      • Sweetbetty

         Oh, yeah, that haircut comment really got me, as it did his client.  The sad thing is that I think it was a sincere attempt of Ven’s to give a compliment and make the client feel better but his people skills are so poorly developed that it fell flat.

        • TheDivineMissAnn

           I agree.  It did seem like a vain attempt at a compliment.

          Ven is this season’s Olivier,  the only difference being Ven’s accent doesn’t change.

    • ASK26

       Actually I had what a consider a parallel situation.  I work in IT and was on a team of contractors and all the others had standard (cookie cutter) tasks and worked from template programs.  Mine had everything but the kitchen sink required.  Yes they were done faster, but boy I blew away the managers with my handling the much more complicated task.

  • GorgeousThings

    Oh, and last night’s episode makes me really, really hope that Ven makes it to the final 4, and gets eliminated right before the finals!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

      Ven the Vulcan – (someone else made this up-ID yourself)
      Even Mr. Spock would crack a joke sometimes.

    • http://twitter.com/urban_gypsy Tess Danesi

      That is so utterly cruel. I fucking love it! 

  • janierainie

    I wonder what the women in Ven’s family look like. I don’t care if it was random or not, a truly creative person could have taken this challenge and run with it. His personality is horrible.

    • janierainie

      Oh, I forgot to add- narcissistic ASSHOLE!!!
      by the way, I love the title of this post.

    • eclare

      Yup.  Whenever a designer bitches about designing for a non-model I just think back to the amazing job Uli did designing for Kane’s mom (I think it was Kane’s mom, but it might have been someone else’s mother) back in Season 3.   The fact that she didn’t win that challenge still pisses me off.

      • YousmelllikeAnnaWintour

        LOVED ULI.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_H3XBSNN3JLZWI4R2EPZ2BQYT5U Suzanne S

        I was going to mention that as well, but I’m glad I didn’t because I mistakenly rewrote history and thought she did win that challenge. Win or not, though, that was well-done. 

  • Frank_821

    The level of denial and lack of self-awareness outdoes even Gretchen. That is saying a lot! 

    Actually the fact she was technically the biggest and therefor gave him the biggest challenge ultimately in this case does not hold water. Gunnar’s woman was in the same body range. Elena’s woman was smaller but she was shorter and pear shaped. Ven’s was tall and had better proportions. Yet even Elena was warm and considerate to her client. 

    Elena may be be uber high strung in the work room but she at least treated her client like a client

    • Terrie_S

      Even winner Fabio had a short, soild client. Sure she wasn’t heavy, but she was built nothing like a willowly model.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

    I still think that Jeffery being shitty to Angela’s mom was more about him hating Angela, and by being mean to the mother he was being being mean to the daughter. 

    • MoHub

       Absolutely. It was purely about his animosity toward Angela, although Angela and her mom are two peas in a pod as far as “poor mes” go.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         I couldn’t take the crying.  There was nothing said on camera between Jeffery and Angela and her mother that justified the two of them bawling.  And her “No one’s ever spoken to me like that before”  Jesus, lady, if that’s the worst your life has had to offer, thank every god in the pantheon and take your ever so minor licks with a smile.

        Ven was so much worse.

        • ASK26

           ”On camera”

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

             Granted.  I’d assume that if he was that much of an ass, they’d have shown it for the drama, but maybe not. 

    • eclare

      I would replace ”hating Angela” with “having a schoolboy crush on Angela.”  There was always something about their dynamic that reminded me of pre-teen kids who didn’t want to admit that they “like-liked” one another.

  • GenXcellent

    I look at Ven’s behavior, and I wonder how, at this point in the show’s history, can any contestant seriously 1. not see the ‘real’ woman challenge coming from a mile away and 2. not realize how extra dickish and unprofessional you look whining about participating in the challenge let alone being so outwardly nasty to your client?  And what made Ven’s behavior all the worse was that all the other contestants clearly have learned from watching the other seasons and regardless of what was going on in their head, were nothing but gracious to their clients. And if you go on ANY reality show that is past its first season not having watched every single episode, then you are just plain stupid.

    • mom2ab

      Exactly!!! If you sign up for this game show you should 1)spend a day walking the floor of Mood to figure out where everything is stored 2) learn to make a pair of pants, an evening gown, a jacket and something to fit a “real woman” 3) learn how to make everything in 8 hours or less this means practice practice practice,  simplify and focus on the elements that make it look more complex. 4) come up with a strategy for unconventional materials- figure out if you are going to manipulate materials or glue gun on muslin before you get there  and finally 5) remember you are being filmed at all times- if you say it you will hear it again.

      • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

        Amen, sister.

  • http://twitter.com/connectinglines Me Again

    Ven was a total a-hole.  However, I do think that it’s unfair when they give some designers thin models and some designers heavy models.  As T-Lo pointed out, the person who wins almost always has one of the thin models, and the person who loses almost always has a chunkier model.  I feel like the judges put Gunnar in the top just so they would make it seem like some designers CAN make it work with a heavier model.  But that was total BS, because Gunnar’s dress was the epitome of ugly (although his model was fierce as sh*t and she should teach runway walking).

    • ampg

      That’s not true, though – any designer who does a halfway decent job with a plus-size client ALWAYS gets top 3, I’m sure because the producers know their audience.  Gunnar’s just the continuation of that trend.  I actually liked his design, but his execution was absolute crap.  Between that and the day-to-evening challenge, I think he could have a pretty good career designing for Ann Taylor or Banana Republic.

    • cheesebomb

      Maybe it is unfair in terms of who has what to deal with, but I’m pretty much the same size/shape as Ven’s model (well, with slightly bigger boobs). I dress myself almost entirely out of LB catalog pieces and I look great in it. Is it harder to dress a non-fashion world standard size? Yes. Is it possible, even for a non-fashiony schmuck like me? Also yes. There are all sorts of amazing things Ven could have made for her and put her in if he had thought about what she really wanted and needed, but he was so focused on her size he couldn’t be bothered.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         See, I disagree.  It’s not harder because of your body, it’s harder because of the industry and the way retail is cut and produced.  That’s something that isn’t at issue on PR, because they’re doing custom work.  There is no reason it should be any harder to do custom for a size 26 than a size 6.

        • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

          Exactly.  Custom means custom.

        • cheesebomb

          Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear, but that was a large part of my point. If I can pull it off within the constraints of the industry, etc., a designer should certainly be able to pull off a custom look.

      • Sweetbetty

         Do we even know what his client did for a living?  If I was making something for her to wear to work that would be the first thing I’d ask.  She herself said her standard dress was jeans and t-shirts so maybe she worked in an environment where that was standard (not every woman works in an office or at a job where you can wear a dress or skirt).  During the judging they asked where she would wear that outfit and I wondered the same thing.  The top looked dressy, even though the fabric looked incredibly cheap, but the skirt looked casual.  I never heard it mentioned what occasion he had in mind for it, though it could have been discussed and edited out.  It would have been good to see the client specifying what she wanted and where she planned on wearing it, like so many of the others did.  If it was never discussed, shame on Ven for not finding out.  If it was discussed but not included, well, it’s good old BM up to its old tricks.

    • Rand Ortega

       Peter O’Toole once said, “There aren’t any small roles, just small actors”. If a designer can’t take the model’s shape no matter what size, & give her a beautiful,flattering silhouette, they’re not much of a designer. Kors does plus sizes & they’re just as gorgeous as his size 2′s.
      Maybe the person who loses almost always has a chunkier model  because they’re not a very good, or versatile designer.
      Just a thought.

      • Charis G

        It makes me wonder how design school teaches these things — one is always hearing about how proportion, fit, etc. are different when you’re dealing with a larger figure (I know I have to adjust like a maniac when I’m working from commercial patterns for myself), but are they taught that?  Not meaning it as any sort of excuse, but honest curiosity.  I’ve seen that tailoring tricks I’ll use on myself don’t work on thinner/less curvy friends, so I imagine there’s a whole different mentality and style you need to look at.  (Dear designers, what works on a skinny model figure very seldom translates to a Real Woman, even when your Real Woman is a perfectly ordinary size 6 with tits and ass.)

        It occurs to me that I’d like to see them do a challenge working with petite models — give them the same flip of different proportions, but without some of the usual eyerolling frustration that come with “big” women. (Then again, there are cases like my sister — petite except for having the same linebacker shoulders I do — which might give them apoplexy anyway).

        /babble

  • Sheila Luther

    Ven reminds me of the alien warrior/automaton from Stargate . . . cold and emotionless.

    • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

       Teal’c?  No, he had feelings and was a very nice guy.  Ven’s more like a Go’auld  — self-congratulating and enjoying making others miserable.

  • KateWo

    Yes to Stacey and Clinton!  When we saw the glimpse of Ven’s outfit in the previews for this episode I thought has he ever seen an episode of What Not To Wear?  If you have a ‘bigger’ girl you don’t put flowy voluminous shiny fabric on her!  Or, have you ever seen Project Runway before?  There’s always a ‘real woman’ challenge so if you’ve never done it before figure it out before you get there. Part of me wonders if he’s playing up the asshole vibe to stay in longer since his designing is not up to par. 

    I feel bad for Nathan, after all there was no constraint on the type of outfit and I’ve seen pop stars in far more tackier sh*t than that.  At least he made his client happy. 

    Agreed the threat of double elimination was bs, but happy they made Ven sweat a little up there. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

      Everyone should know by now that there will be a normal person challenge or men’s challenge in the mix sometimes. Practice with real people!

      Hey – Maybe Ven doesn’t know any normal people.

      • formerlyAnon

        Exactly this. This is Season TEN. Seasons 1-9 are readily available on DVD. Why would anyone bother to come on this show without working through some of the known prerequisites:

        1)Brother brand industrial sewing machine
        2)Unconventional materials challenge
        3)Non-model size person challenge
        4)Menswear challenge
        5)Celebrity or faux-celebrity judge who chooses garment with an eye to being on camera or on stage, t.v. usually.
        6)Ridiculous time constraints, including timed dash through a specific fabric store – which any random person can walk into during business hours in order to study the layout.
        7)Limited and often crappy accessories and shoes from which to choose. (So, maybe you should work through how to quickly turn fabric & cheap notions into finished-looking accents? Ya think?)
        8)Need to explain your “look” to hair & makeup pros. (I sometimes think the stylists would have to be psychic to figure out what the designers mean, based on the clips we see.)

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           You forgot to include a doctor willing to prescribe you whatever drug you’re going to use to get through being with people like Ven constantly for weeks on end.

        • TheDivineMissAnn

           Yep.  And with the kind of prize they are handing out, I would make damn sure I gathered as much information as I could about the show and what might be expected from me.

    • bitchybitchybitchy

      Ven’s choice of fabric was another of his many missteps in this episode. 

  • siriuslover

    My son threw the throw pillow when Ven wasn’t aufed. I too am happy that Fabio won, though I hated the belt and booties. It took the look down two notches to me. But she probably wouldn’t have worn any of the pumps on the wall.  I am sorry to see Nathan go, too. I felt we never really got a chance to see what he could do. And Ven. I can’t even deal with that jackass this morning. If you look at her before picture, she’s FINE! He’s just a bastard. And I was proud of all the other designers (even Elena) for their relations with their clients and what they produced.
    The good thing about the Ven smack down, despite the fact that it didn’t result in his auf, is that it led to the charge from the crew that he is “inflexible.”  And now it’s only a matter of time.

    • Terrie_S

      Nothing ensures you won’t win like your client falling and spraining an ankle on the runway as she tries to navigate pumps. I blame the lack of selection, not Fabio, for the booties. The belt, though….

      • Sweetbetty

         Did you notice Ven’s client’s shoes.  Flats, that were probably her own and didn’t do much for the total look.  I write that off as her possibly having problem feet, like mine, that won’t allow for the wearing of heels, but I’m surprised Ven didn’t bring up the fact that he couldn’t put her in stylish pumps as part of his whinathon.

  • NDC_IPCentral

    Excellent analysis, Tom and Lorenzo.  I don’t have anything to add.  Well, I can agree with your conclusion that “random” was not the operative word behind the scenes at Bunim-Murray/Klum Drama Manufacturing, Inc.  The clients were parceled out with quite deliberate intention, as you and I and doubtless others believe.

    Oh, and I DID post last night that this was Stacey & Clinton without the $5000.00 Visa card with the client’s name on it or the time to get it right. I do agree wholeheartedly that having Ms. London and Mr. Kelly on PR would be faboo, but I don’t know whether Lifetime and TLC speak to each other.

  • patitasdeplata

    What company, designer, store, or client is EVER going to want to work with/hire Ven after his shabby behavior on this episode. And personally I predict that the redemption arc is going be Gunnar, not Ven. I don’t think Ven has any kind of asperger/autism spectrum disorder. Inside he is supremely unconfident. And he reflected that right back on his poor client. That client deserves some kind of reward for not slapping Ven right on the runway. What an arrogant jerk he is.  

    • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

       I’m going with narcissistic personality disorder, or sociopathy.

    • Sara LaBatt

      I was thinking as they walked off after critique that she should haul off and punch Ven in the face.  And that thought made me happy.

      • Sweetbetty

         Or she could have pulled a Raul and told Ven how much she hated him as she left forever.

        • Spicytomato1

          She pretty much has…on Twitter. Someone provided a link and I checked it out. The gloves are off between the two of them, yikes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1380079551 Marie Dees

    Yep, smelled set up with Ven from the beginning. And it worked. However, Ven himself had complete control over how he reacted to that set up and what he did was give us a view of Ven in a less positive light. But that highlighted his weaknesses marvelously. Take away his ability to do architectural folds on a perfectly sized model and he doesn’t have any other skills to pull out of his bag. 

    I’m wondering – in design schools, do they have no classes on how clothes fit on different shapes? Because a couple of these designers (Ven at the top of the list) seemed not to know how to handle their clients shape, size, lack of height….

    • Violina23

      Yeah, I was wondering that with Sonjia — I thought she had a good idea, but completely misunderstood what that shape would do to her client.

      • Lilithcat

        Sonjia completely ignored Tim’s guidance to consider the proportions of the dress.  Had she not done so, she would, at least, have been safe.

    • Sweetbetty

       And what use would a “real woman” have for one of Ven’s architecturally folded designs?  They look great on a runway or standing perfectly still but you can’t really do anything in them.

  • SapphoPoet

    Well, that was painful to watch. I don’t disagree with the auf, but I’m sorry to see Nathan go because he seems like a nice guy. I loved how Tim complimented him when he had to send him to clean up his space (giving subtle little digs at Ven in the process). 

    I don’t think that Ven even realizes how he came across with his comments. I think he’s one of those people who are incredibly focused on one thing (design, in his case) to the exclusion of everything else and that he’s just really tone deaf when it comes to human relations. Unless he figures out how to fix that, he’s going to have a rough time once he gets out into a real life situation. 

    And all that guff about working with someone who is–gasp!–a size 14!!! Coming from Ven who is no skinny Minnie himself–that’s pretty rich. The conversation about the belts was just painful to watch. I wish Ven had been sent home, but he’s too good a designer for them to send him home. At least the judges spanked him pretty well.  

    I was happy that Fabio won. I LOVED his dress and he seemed to work well with the client. I’m not convinced about the belt or the booties, but I really liked what he did overall. 

    • Lilithcat

       Tim complimented him when he had to send him to clean up his space 

      If you mean the “qualities of character” remark, I have to say it didn’t sound like a compliment to me.  It was rather like saying “I’ve never read anything like it” to an author about whose book you have nothing kind to say.

      • Spicytomato1

        Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Like describing someone as having “a nice personality” when you think his/her looks are lacking.

  • Aziyade Raqs

    I’m not understanding why it matters if the selection process was “rigged” or not. While it’s true that in the past, designers with plus size models typically have crashed and burned, is that because of the model’s size or is it because the designers freaked out at having to create a different kind of shape or silhouette?  Is it really fair to say that the designer with a skinny model wins? Isn’t it equally true that the designers with skinny models don’t waste a lot of time agonizing over the fact that they DON’T have skinny models, so they spend more time working instead of complaining? Or is it “unfair” in that the designers with plus size models can’t rely on a “standard” silhouette or a standard design? In that case, isn’t that kind of the point of a design challenge: to do something NOT standard?  I am not a designer, so I don’t understand the “unfairness” aspect of this challenge.

    • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

      We never said anything about the challenge being “unfair.”

      • Aziyade Raqs

         No, sorry — I was reading Ven’s tweets, and he was the one going on about it being unfair.

    • KateWo

       I agree…..I don’t buy the fact that it was random, but I think the designers with the bigger models get aufed because they freak out about it and aren’t prepared.  Everyone who gets on project runway should have a go to plus sized outfit in mind, and even practice making it before hand if they are serious about winning.  Maybe a lot of them think they are going to become famous celebrity designers but they would be smart to know how to design for the average women who’s watching the show and is a potential customer. 

      • Aziyade Raqs

        I know if I were going on the show, I would definitely consider that in the past designers have been called on to make children’s clothes, “plus size” clothes, menswear, costumes — and they’ve had to use specific fabrics, unconventional materials, car parts, etc. It seems like they’d all do a bit of homework and at least be prepared for the fact that they MIGHT have to end up designing a dog sweater or yes even a “plus size” garment.

      • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

        You’re assuming that all us plus-size ladies are the same shape. Everyone’s proportions are different. For this challenge, it would be better to prepare by designing different outfits for various shapes. A small pear-shaped woman is going to need the same elements as another who is much larger but shaped the same. 

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           A friend and I keep planning for the day we run our own shop, where plus will start at a 10, for those who have plus proportions on a smaller frame and misses will run to at least a 24. 

        • Sweetbetty

           Agreed.  You can make a design plus-size by adding, say, four inches to the bust, waist, and hip and that’s great if the woman who is going to wear it is a larger woman with an in-proportion figure.  I’ve varied from a size 12 to a 20 in my adult life but I’m small busted, have a thick waist even when “thin”, and small-in-proportion hips so my figure is pretty much straight up and down.  Off-the-rack clothes have never fit me properly in any of those sizes.  There’s no way RTW can be sized to fit all the variations of a women’s shapes.  These designers should study these shape variations and be prepared to create for them whether a size 4 or a size 20.

          • ASK26

             Lane Bryant for a while had FINALLY accounted for those who carry their weight in the middle (Yellow) but then stopped having that in the store (MAYBE black pants)  – but even at their flagship stores in Columbus they had nothing -”you can order it on-line”  great  – especially since they changed the shape/size/fit and what you had before no longer works

    • SewingSiren

      Of course it doesn’t matter to the viewers, but it matters very much to the competitors. It is unfair because the judges expect the clients to look like models on the runway. When they say a dress is unflattering , that is code for “She looks fat”.

  • http://twitter.com/phd_tv Heather Barkman

    EXACTLY. Just because the client assignments weren’t exactly “random” doesn’t give you the right to treat your client so terribly, Ven. Don’t like the producers interfering? Don’t give them anything dramatic to work with. 

    • Violina23

      Or don’t sign up to be on a REALITY TV COMPETITION!

  • jamie richardson

    I think it was notable, too, that when Heidi first brought the friends out, almost every designer recoiled in horror. Like, serious horror and dismay. But then, once they met their clients and heard their stories, they treated their relationship professionally. People who are not models are people, too! Actual human beings! But then there’s Ven…. yuck.

  • Kayceed

    Ven disappoints on two levels.
    First, the absolute lack of tact in dealing with his client, which was flagrant and cannot be explained away.
    Second, which came as such a surprise to me, was a complete lack of intellectual engagement around this challenge. Based on the way he has been presented to us, I saw him as the “good student” type – very diligent, thoughtful, serious.  I thought, given this persona and his obvious construction skills, he could have left everyone in the dust on this challenge. To choose fabrics with the right amount of body and the right amount of sheen or “matte-ness” to highlight or make recede different aspects of the body; to find a silhouette that highlights body contours in a flattering way; to work the proportions correctly – these can be rather “thinky” aspects of designing that I thought would be second nature to studious Ven. Simply put, he choked.
    If I were a prospective PR candidate, I would find a 5’4”, size 14 model and work with her for several months to really gain understanding of the volumes and proportions involved, and how that affects one’s design. It would give one a competitive advantage.
    One-way monkey, indeed.

    • 3boysful

       ”If I were a prospective PR candidate, I would find a 5’4”, size 14 model
      and work with her for several months to really gain understanding of
      the volumes and proportions involved, and how that affects one’s design.
      It would give one a competitive advantage.”

      Absolutely!  I have been saying this for ages!  (Plus: go to stores and examine unconventional materials to see what you can–and cannot–do with them.)

      It makes you think most of the people who are cast do it on a whim, or else they’d be better prepared.

      • formerlyAnon

         There’s a whole list of things one should know to prepare for – I even made one in a reply to another comment – that so many designers seem so unprepared STILL in season TEN, makes me wonder if the producers intentionally choose designers who (in addition to being potential drama queens) are naive about the process.

        • bitchybitchybitchy

          Bunim-Murray is casting for drama in addition to design talent. They want a mix of personalities so that they can screw with them.  Prospective contestants ought to be aware of that.

      • annaplurabelle

         PR aside, I think ALL prospective design students should do these things.

  • SewingSiren

    I agreed with the win. But they paired Fabio with a client, who may in real life chose to have Fabio dress them.
    I do not agree with the auf’ Nathan did not make a beautiful dress. He did please his client and he did make a dress that she may wear for her performance career , which is what she requested. The judges were (and usually are) cruel . When they insult the dress they are insulting the client.

    • Spicytomato1

      “When they insult the dress they are insulting the client.”
      THIS. I totally agree that the judges were cruel to have the clients (and their friends) on the runway as they ripped the designers’ garments. I was horrified. They should have dismissed them when it came time for the critique, maybe they could have used still shots from the runway to refer to while critiquing.

      • bitchybitchybitchy

        Whenever they do the real woman challenge I think that the ought to have the clients leave the runway. It’s especially hard when they start ripping dresses that the clients actually liked.

      • Sweetbetty

         Agreed.  I sometimes feel bad for the models when the judges are tearing apart the design they are wearing, and they’re *models*.  If I was standing up there as a “real woman” and they started criticizing the outfit I was wearing that a designer had made for me, especially if I had said I was happy with it, I’d be totally mortified.

      • jamie richardson

        While I wouldn’t want to be up on that runway at all, I think, with the exception of Nathan and his client, the judges were really complimentary to the clients and as much as they could made it clear that the critique is of the garment and not the person wearing it. But, they *can* get carried away and start cackling over a dumb joke they make, so…

      • annaplurabelle

        Yeah, I think that girl flinched when Heidi said she looked like a “Hoochy Mama”.

        • bitchybitchybitchy

          There are more diplomatic, and kinder, ways to comment on the taste level of a design. Using the term “hoochy mama” was insensitive on Heidi’s part.

          • ASK26

             especially since the client loved it and wanted it more exposed

    • waitwaitwhat

      I absolutely agree, didn’t Nathan do exactly the same as Gunnar? And to my my mind, with a better result? I must be the only person who interpreted Tim’s comment on Nathan’s integrity not as an attack on Ven but as an apology for the show’s inconsistent judging standards which had him on the runway being slammed for exactly the same thing others were being praised for. And I know it’s not really anything to do with the OP here but I cannot get over Gunnar’s place in the top three – it’s just too rich for my blood. Ven caught hell from his client’s friend for going with black when they were promised something colourful. He at least ended up with a colourful top – Gunnar went from a jazzy ombré to a completely black dress – how has this gone unremarked upon? Melissa also put her woman in a black and what appeared to be terribly made, illfitting and unflattering dress. I really don’t think that Ven is the only one with a lack of imagination regarding what would flatter a fuller fitting woman (I.e. dark colours). I hope he redeems himself with his work because at the start he really did make an honest attempt to polite and engaging with his client.

      • SewingSiren

        I think that Nathan’s dress was actually more suited to his client than Gunnar’s was to his, especially if you take fit and construction into consideration.

  • mjude

    first of all thank god TLO site is working, i couldnt go all day at work like yesterday :) 
    VEN WAS SUCH A JERK.  i could almost hear the bitter kittens & ubf screaming last night. i was with you all.  sorry to see nathan go he was sweet.  so glad fabio won. 

  • CozyCat

    Yeah, the “real woman” challenge is always great television.  But I think it’s also a good test of the designers.

    First, it throws them out of their comfort zone, just like the unconventional materials challenges.  The “go to” design for many of the contestants is the short, tight little cocktail dress.  Well, even if you get one of the slimmer models, that’s not going to work here.  It’s interesting that 2 of the bottom 3 turned out short tight little dresses.

    The second aspect of the challenge is client relations.  How do you please a client who has bad ideas.  How do you design to enhance an imperfect figure without reminding the client of her imperfections and insuring that she will never, ever buy from you again.

    Ven failed on both aspects of the challenge.  He couldn’t adapt to the new design challenge and he made it clear that he thinks customers must show that they are worthy of his time.  Nathan was nicer to his client, but he didn’t adapt well either.  And he failed to push his client towards a better design.

  • snarkykitten

    I hate the “real world” challenge because there’s always some poor “plus sized” woman getting paired with the biggest ass on the planet. If I were his client, I would have intentionally sabotaged his outfit, no matter how stupid it would make me look on the runway. oops! teehee spilled my coffee everywhere! I’m such a fat klutz, right??

  • GTrain

    I don’t know what Ven sees when he looks in a mirror, maybe he has no mirrors in his house, but no stick figure, she. Perhaps all that lashing out was self-loathing. And I rebuke the excuse of Aspergers… not all assholish, narcissistic behavior warrants a clinical diagnosis.

    I feel badly for Nathan because he seems like a decent person who tries had but I haven’t been a fan of any of his designs and this entry was just skanktastic. It a shame he had a client with no taste, and a “friend” who apparently likes women who dress like strippers and I think he’s just too gentle a personality to push back as hard as he needed to.

  • http://gabyrippling.tumblr.com/ Gabriella M

    Yeah, when Tim came out and said that the clients had been assigned randomly but there was no button bag, I rolled my eyes and said, “Yeah, ‘randomly.’” And that was before any drama. 
    My boyfriend was appalled that Ven didn’t go home (this is more or less his first time watching PR, with me), whereas I, after the last two seasons and after so many episodes of PR in total, could only muster a sigh and explain to him that Nathan had become cannon fodder and was going home. 

    Meanwhile, has anyone noticed that Gunnar has toned down his impression of Josh and he seems to have switched to a Kenley impression?

  • NDC_IPCentral

    All the designers had $150.00 to spend on fabric and notions at Mood.  How the heck could so many of them crank out too short garments and/or pieces that look so cheap.  Fabio’s winning dress was comprised of a lot of different gray fabric, so I can see where his allotment was spent.  As for Nathan and Ven, amongst others, I simply don’t see a money/components correlation.

    • SapphoPoet

      I don’t sew and never have any idea of whether or not the designers have a decent budget or not at Mood. So from what you’re saying, $150 is a decent amount to get good fabric and all the extras and such?

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         Well, that depends, but in this case, it should have been plenty.  It’s not like any of these required terribly expensive fabric or a lot of separate pieces. 

        • NDC_IPCentral

          Hi, Shannon!  I agree – and I just don’t see $150.00 in the fabrics that Ven chose, for example; do you?

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            No.  I can see it in Fabio’s dress, because unless he had incredibly detailed plans, with the pattern essentially already drafted, he would end up with A LOT of extra due to the varying shades.  Ven’s looked incredibly cheap — that shiny blue looked like cheap polyester. 

            Though I actually prefer when they make ugly stuff out of fabric that looks cheap or is a really ugly print — when they take really beautiful fabric and destroy it, it makes me sad.

          • Sweetbetty

             Ven’s original intent was to make an all-black dress so perhaps he bought an expensive black fabric.  I wondered where he suddenly came up with that tacky blue stuff and wonder if he could have scrounged it off of one of the other designers, like Nathan who had a shiny blue dress.

      • NDC_IPCentral

        Well, fabric is usually sold in yards, so the price would be $X.00 for three feet of fabric.  I believe that Mood sells to the trade, though I could be mistaken, so that its prices are not retail (i.e., the top dollar that you or I would spend if we were to shop at the sewing store in our neighborhood).  Three yards – 9 feet  – for example, at even $20.00 per yard only chews up $60.00 of the allotted funds.  If they’re spending $30.00 or more per yard, I’d have to believe that would be a very fine fabric, indeed.  SewingSiren could probably weigh in on costs for fabric and notions.  I maintain that I’m not seeing the expenditure in the final results in most cases here.

        • VictoriaDiNardo

          Mood sells to the trade, but it is also a retail store with retail prices. I think they also sell off extra yardage from designers, so you can sometimes find great quality stuff.   I’ve paid $50 to $75 a yard for fabric there, but since I’m making hats I don’t need much. You have to be careful at Mood; you can pick up something that looks like it should be reasonable and it turns out to be $$$$ from some amazing fabric house.  I can spend hours there looking for the right thing, so I feel for them have to run through so quickly. 

          That said, some of those fabric looked baaaaad. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

            I can’t believe PR is paying retail…if they’re paying at all. Mood should be paying them for the free publicity.

            I used to live in NYC, and I never heard of Mood (or don’t remember the name). Of course, I moved years ago. I used to troll the garment district regularly. To my shame, I still have fabrics I bought in NYC. I am a fabric pack-rat.

            M&J Trimming (for any button or trim you can imagine), anyone?

          • VictoriaDiNardo

            Hey, I still I have fabrics I bought at Diamonds on the lower east side in 1980, so you won’t get any trouble from me!  I don’t remember Mood either, I usually shopped on Orchard Street( Bechensteins )  or places in the garment district like Ragfinders.  They sold odd lots from designer ends, and I think Mood does a bit of that too.  

            I know they make a big show of having them hand over the cash when the time at Mood is up,but who knows?  All I know is your money doesn’t go very far there.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

             Thank you for saying that!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

        For a size six, I always assume 2.5 yards of 60 inch fabric for a suit. At $50/yard, for a decent fabric, that is $125. And most of the time, you can get excellent fabrics for about $30/yard or $75.00 before tax. Add thread, underlining (which is unheard of on PR) and a zipper/buttons (no buttons on PR), and $150 is more than enough money. Assume $30/yard, 60 inches wide and 4.5 yards of fabric, which will cover almost any design, and, yes, $150.00 is a decent amount of money. And if your design will work with a cotton (cottons are usually less expensive), $150 is a lot of money.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           Unless it’s for something particularly voluminous, I usually go for 3 or 4 yards of each fabric, because I generally buy when there’s a sale and use it later.  3 to 4 yards is plenty for almost anything.  At 4 yards, you can spend up to 37 a yard, without taking into account notions and thread.

        • VictoriaDiNardo

          oooh, sorry the above reply should have been here I think.

    • Lilithcat

      I was astonished at how cheap-looking so many of the garments were, not just Nathan’s and Ven’s.

  • nannypoo

    I would have sent Ven home not only for his nasty attitude but because his top was so poorly made and the whole outfit was unflattering, not to mention the fact that it didn’t meet the client’s needs. There must be bullet-proof waivers signed before the show is filmed, because that poor client must have been devastated all over again when her friends and family watched the show and she had to relive her humiliation in front of an audience. 

    I hated Nathan’s dress less than I hated Ven’s. His bodice detail was interesting and he was responding to his client’s request. Sure, the result was pretty crappy, and I honestly can’t remember any of his previous outfits, but on a stage in a dark room Nathan’s outfit would have looked less bad than Ven’s would have looked at his client’s workplace.

    Who knew Gunnar and Insane Ukraine could be warm, charming and sympathetic? It must be fun to be a film editor on this show. 

    • formerlyAnon

       ”It must be fun to be a film editor on this show.”

      I’ve never really thought about the skill set required to take the raw footage and construct the various story arcs. I’d think it would be great preparation for writing a screenplay or a very talky novel. [Not that film editors necessarily want to do either of those things.]

      • JMB_edits

        It is a skill set, but we’d make a really boring reality show! ;)

  • pookiesmom

    the booties burn holes into my eyes, they are so horrible.

    good dress otherwise, but MAN those booties are awful.

    • TheDivineMissAnn

      I think they were Fabio’s nod to his client’s tastes.  The whole thing looked like something she would wear, including the boots.

      But those boots in my closet?  When hell freezes over. 

  • http://www.MintaHall.com/ Minta Hall

    I’m still convinced that Ven is autistic. He shows the classic inability to understand or even SEE emotions in others, and to display them in himself. He’s high-functioning, of course, but all his behavior on the show in all episodes displays that same emotional numbness.  He’s focused on only one thing: winning the competition.  All else pales beyond that. None of it even makes an impression on him.  That’s classic autistic behavior.

    Here is were I (for once) actually disagree with TLo.  the thing is Jeffrey was perfectly aware he was being an asshole to Angela’s mom–he just didn’t care that he was obnoxious.  I am perfectly convinced that DESPITE all the mutterings around him, Ven was completely oblivious to being unbelievably obnoxious. He wasn’t doing it on purpose, nor did he intend to insult his model constantly. He just lacked the emotional toolkit to know what he was doing.

    For that reason, I’d still keep Jeffrey as primo asshole for the series–Ven’s merely a very close second.

    But Ven’s behavior was TOTALLY unacceptable. And I don’t think he even understands either that it was unacceptable, or why it was unacceptable.  I’m beginning to feel very sorry for him because he operates in a world he doesn’t comprehend, a world of emotions.

    • Tatiana Luján

      You might have a point.

    • http://www.lippsisters.com/ Deborah Lipp

       Ven has an accurate reading of other people’s feelings, even while dismissing them. He knew right away his client wasn’t happy. Ven might or might not be Aspie, but if he’s able to perceive reactions he’s able to respond to them.

      My son is Aspie. He’s capable of seeing and responding to emotions. He made a choice to TRY to make connections even though it’s harder for him than for others. Asperger’s is no excuse.

    • GTrain

      I respectfully disagree. Ven exhibits defiance, which is indication of an acknowledgement that what he’s doing is not acceptable or approved by peers. He just doesn’t give a shit or is too stubborn to admit he’s in the wrong.

    • Spicytomato1

      “He’s focused on only one thing: winning the competition.  All else pales beyond that. None of it even makes an impression on him.  That’s classic autistic behavior.”
      I gotta disagree with you there…I think everyone else’s work makes a very big impression on him. He’s very aware of what the others are doing, and has insulted numerous designers/designs so far this season. He’s continually assessing where he stands in relation to the competition, and someone on the autism spectrum would likely be more oblivious than that.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2B6U4UNVYIV5DLEG6Z24ALYOC4 Dan Alexander

    What’s the biggest shame is that the producer staged all of this! The poor client and her dear friend were used and abused. I don’t know what the problem with Vin could be? Cultural issues? He is in the business of fashion for women, but doesn’t respect women? Doesn’t add up at all! Then the comment about men being better designers?!!! What the heck?!!! If your client had been my gal pal and you treated her that way, there would have been some major bu tt kicking going on on that runway!

    • Susan Crawford

      Ooooh, I forgot about the men being better designers comment. Yes, this episode was the Ven Hat Trick: sizeism, ageism AND sexism. And cluelessness, of course.

      And everyone should have a great friend like Ven’s client’s bestie!

  • kaycem

    i would like to say (probably unpopularly, but whatever) that despite ven’s shiteous display on last night’s show — and via twitter — i’m disappointed in t.lo choosing to suddenly “body snark.”  under normal circumstances, it’s not ok for t.lo / the bitter kittens to body snark when it’s skinny white girls, but with fatty asshole ven, yes let’s call him chubs in the headline!

    is he a complete fuckwad?  absolutely.  does that mean that the comment section should devolve into “omg ven is so fat and gross he should go on a diet himself”?  no.

    i mean, he’s clearly unself-aware, as t.lo mentioned.  he clearly is projecting his own self-image onto this woman — without even realizing it no less — again, as t.lo mentioned.  yet i’m still disappointed that t.lo have made an exception to the “no body snarking rule” simply because we’re suddenly talking about a fat person.  (fat people are so rarely [if ever] featured on t.lo that i have no idea if the fatty rule is standing body snarking policy exception, or if we’re just allowed to make fun of fat ven for today, and all body snarking will be banned in the future…)

    • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

      Oh, please. If we didn’t note the fact that he himself is not model-sized, we’d be ignoring one of the most important aspects of situation, as well as his own glaring hypocrisy.

      Sure, get on us for saying “Chubs.” It’s warranted in this case and has less to do with how he looks and more to do with how he acted.

      • kaycem

        that IS what i was getting on you about (since i note that you had fair points in all other aspects).  well that and not calling commenters on body snarking as you normally would.

        thanks for acknowledging that you are wrong.  :)

      • Deb Oswald

        TLo never body snark unless warranted and this was so hypocritical, it had to be said!!  What an ass Ven is!

      • Susan Crawford

        I think it would have been a glaring omission NOT to point out that those horrid, demeaning comments were coming from a man who is himself quite heavyset. I wasn’t expecting empathy and warmth from VenBot, but I certainly expected that there would be a modicum of courtesy and respect, and at least an attempt to get to know a little about this woman. It isn’t body-snarking at all  – it is related to a lack of ability to engage with others on anything more than a superficial, judgemental level.

        It was Ven’s choice to treat another human being just about as badly as I’ve seen in a long, long time.

        You know what I wish? I wish some of the PR alums who feel the same would contact Ven’s client and make her some KILLER stuff. Anthony? Chris March? Mila? Make this woman happy!

      • bitchybitchybitchy

        Ven opened the door to taking his size into account by behaving as he did.  If he was projecting his own discomfort with himself onto his client, then he should be dealing with that issue.

    • Laylalola

      Ven’s atrocious, offensive behavior was shoved in our faces for 90 minutes, and TLo is the instigator of body snark here by asking Mr. Clueless to take a look in the mirror? Come on.

      • kaycem

        for calling him chubs, yes they are.

        t.lo are usually merciless — MERCILESS i tell you! — on body snarking, especially with the loyal commentariat.  i get that ven’s hypocrisy is The Story Here, and i’m not defending it.  in fact, on twitter, i reamed his ass for being a self-hating dickbag.  and as i mentioned in my original comment, they make good points throughout the post, and say things that need to be said about ven’s behavior.  none of that is in dispute.  but considering t.lo’s general policies on how/why someone’s body is mentioned, “chubs” IS out of line.

        • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

          Enough. It’s one word – and a mild one at that. Your objections are noted, but we think you’re being absolutist and ignoring everything else we wrote in this post.

        • watchmeboogie

          Maybe in your kindergarten, it’s out of line.

    • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

       The problem isn’t his weight, it was the hypocrisy of a large man acting so badly to a woman because of her size.  Essentially in Ven’s world, men are allowed to look however they want, but women need to fit the slot he wants them to.

      • kaycem

        that’s not just ven’s world, that’s the world in general.  and i agree that ven needs to be taken down several pegs.  i also get that this is t.lo’s site and everyone loves and agrees with them almost always.  all of this is totally ok with me.  but you can’t call out ven’s hypocrisy in one breath and then vindicate t.lo’s at the same time.  i’ve seen, over the years, many a commenter get corrected for body snarking on the women posted here.  that is a BIG REASON i love coming to this website — t.lo have character and snarkiness, so they never violate certain boundaries.  nor do they let the bitter kittens do so.  today is an exception, and i’m not sorry i pointed it out — no matter what the “justification” it’s not cool to call ven chubs like it’s his fucking name.  that’s NO BETTER than what ven did to his client last night, #JustSayin.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           That’s like saying “violence is never okay”.  Of course it is.  When it’s fighting a war to defeat the Nazis, it’s okay.  When it’s beating up a kid in the schoolyard simply because you can, it’s not okay. 

          If someone else starts the fight, it’s okay to finish it on behalf of yourself or others.

          • kaycem

            LOL!  i legitimately don’t know where to start with this comment, so i’m not even going bother…

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

          Not everyone agrees with TLo. I’ve posted a few views that are opposite of theirs and they haven’t taken it down.

    • watchmeboogie

      Of course it’s fine to point out his size. Did we watch the same show?

  • ChristinaRi

    I don’t like the “randomly” selected part of this because it just gives the designers more room to complain.   Putting that aside, however, it seems to me the odds of having a heavy set model on project runway are pretty high.  Why wouldn’t the designers prepare for that eventuality as much as they prepare their designs for the audition process?   Just do a few large patterns at home and see what works well —  and please to stay away from shiny, clingy fabrics.  

  • Beth Plunk

    Does anyone think Ven might have Asberger’s?  His lack of social skills seems almost pathological.  

    • Terrie_S

      Reading his tweets, I’d say he’s not an Aspie, he’s just a self-centered jerk.

    • Sweetbetty

       It’s been discussed to death.

    • Spicytomato1

      No. My son has Asperger’s. There’s a difference between not having social skills and choosing not to use them. I think Ven most definitely doesn’t want to be bothered by niceties. Like TLo said, he’s the classic “I’m not here to make friends” type of competitor.

    • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

      Although it’s de facto absurd to attempt to diagnose someone’s mental/neurological state from a reality show, I have to weigh in here and say IMO, no — no autism, no Aspergers. My grandson who lives with me is a high-functioning autistic/Aspergers (diagnosis varies depending on the expert), and while individuals certainly vary, I think Ven exhibits too much consciousness of himself in a social setting, which is one of the key traits Aspies and autistics typically lack. 

      I know nothing about Ven’s background, but I do wonder if he’s the product of some old school patriarchal culture, one that unthinkingly enshrines the automatic superiority of the male. He seems deeply convinced that a) he is always right; b) he is always the best; and c) if something goes awry with a or b, he’s righteously indignant because somebody else must be at fault. His attitude toward women seems almost detached, like they’re just the canvas upon which he works his art. 

  • UsedtobeEP

    For once, I do wish that the “real woman” challenge would not be won by one of the designers with the smaller women. It seems like every time they do this, as you said, the winner is someone who gets a size six or eight or even ten for a model. I was rooting for Gunnar last night, also because he mentioned something about someone coming along to help when you least expected it. Although most of the time that would have meant he was helping her, I think he meant she was helping him by being so happy to work with him after his bad week last week. What a great attitude. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

    The first question you should ask ANY client is “What do you love about your body and what do you hate?”  Because no matter how great a woman’s body is, there will be things she doesn’t like.  That tells you what to play up and what to minimize. 

    The second is “What three words would you like used to describe you?”  A woman who says intelligent, grounded, and professional doesn’t want a sexy clubbing dress, for instance. 

    Third is “What’s an average week for you like?”  A commuter isn’t going to want something that wrinkles badly.

    Somehow, Ven managed to miss all of them.

    • formerlyAnon

       Yeah, I’d say it’s lucky Ven seems like he’d be okay with doing technical stuff in a back room somewhere and leaving client contact to someone else. Because while he’s got skills, no-one in their right mind would hire him to work with clients after this episode.  Even model-sized clients need to feel that their opinions are consulted and respected to keep a business going.

  • http://twitter.com/MandySCG MandyJane

    What killed me was at the end of the show Ven still didn’t understand why he was almost auf’d. Even if it was all a set up, he still failed a very important part of the challenge, which was to make the client feel special. Even if his design was bad, if his client had a good time he wouldn’t have had much to worry about.

    • MissAnnieRN

      Which Gunnar proved.  Because I hated his dress.  But his client landed him in the top 3.

      • http://twitter.com/MandySCG MandyJane

         Right? Gunnar’s dress was kinda weird looking, but he was so sweet!

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

           ”[K]inda weird looking” indeed.

      • Violina23

        This! I hated Gunnar’s dress, he seemed to get a pass based on how much the client adored the dress (or adored being a model on a runway, honestly —  I couldn’t tell for sure which it was!)

  • nosniveling

    totally agree with your analysis.  For me, this was a reminder of Christian’s disastrous brown prom dress (worst outfit ever IMO) on a few levels.
    First, the designer should have been eliminated for it, but was not, due to past performance/talent issues, and second, the horrible treatment of the client.
    I was a Ven fan before this, not now for sure!!
    The Asperger’s thing seems to come up periodically whenever the contestants demonstrate inexplicable social ignorance- it certainly did last year……  I just think that it goes along with the reality show contestant mentality, and isn’t related to autism at all.

  • holdmewhileimnaked

    i’ll probably say something more later–i’m tired now–but i did find one good thing to say about nathan’s dress.
    it’s got a set-in zipper. has anyone else managed that in the history of the show?

  • kaycem

    that’s what i love about dorothy perkins!  they don’t have a “special” plus line.  all fashions in all sizes they choose to carry.  now if they could up their quality a bit, i’d be doubly thrilled.

    i’m also an avid online shopper, and am really digging some of the hot clothes that are by-fatties-for-fatties.  you’ll probably love domino dollhouse.  i go to them for sexy lingerie and the occasional dress or skirt.  they sometimes skew too young for me, but make good quality stuff.  also, check eshakti out if you haven’t yet.  they tailor everything AND you can make modifications to standard styles, e.g. if something is sleeveless, you can add sleeves.

    (fyi, i’m super into body positivity / reclaiming the word “fat” as a neutral adjective so i hope you’re not offended by my use of “fatty” here.  i’m talking about myself — i personally can’t stand “bbw” and “plus-size” and other euphemisms.  i’m fat, so i’ll just say fat.)

  • Tatiana Luján

    Who does Venn sell his clothes to?

  • LadyCelia

    Ven is nearly sociopathic.  Utter lack of empathy combined with his no-one-is-as-good-as-I-am is really starting to destroy any interest I had in his design ability.

    • lill5

       Thank you. My family and I discussed whether he had Aspergerer’s (sorry for spelling today) or some other social anxiety problem and finally my husband said, “You know, he’s just Ted Bundy designing dresses. He’d kill that woman if he could get away with it.” I agree with you. It was nearly, if not clearly, sociopathic.

      And Ven…YOU’RE FAT. Go fuck yourself.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         My sister-in-law was telling me once about how she always assumed that people with clinical depression were very much into the “nobody loves me, screw the world” mentality because her older siblings with the disorder were.  Then she met my brother and I who are both ridiculously loyal and deeply connected to the people in our lives, especially because we are clinically depressed and we know we’re hard to live with so we appreciate those who make the effort all the more. 

        Even if he has a mental disorder, so what?  Take your meds and get on with your damn life.  Having a screwy brain is not an excuse to make everyone around you miserable all the time.  The crazy card is not a free hall pass for the rest of your life. 

        • formerlyAnon

           No wonder you’re such an interesting addition here. There are a ton of people without diagnosable conditions who can’t/don’t muster up the energy/effort and constructive attitude you espouse. (And isn’t it interesting that I’m saluting the energy/effort and constructive attitude of someone managing an illness that saps those very things.)

        • barbiefish

          Antisocial personality disorder isn’t treatable by meds, I don’t think.  Also, I believe this type of person, if reasonably intelligent (which Bundy was and Ven appears to be) attempts to hide their lack of empathy by exhibiting in public a “normal”, reasonably friendly persona — something that seems like too much of an effort for Ven to do!

        • Violina23

          Great post — everyone has emotional/mental baggage, it’s all about learning how to handle it and finding the right people to connect with who can deal. 

          To Quote Rent: “I’m looking for baggage / that goes with mine”

          • formerlyAnon

            “I’m looking for baggage / that goes with mine”

            Advice to this effect should SO be part of pre-marital counseling for couples! ;-)

        • lill5

           Totally agree. I deal with depression myself and I try my best not to take it out on others. I don’t think Ven is depressed or bipolar or anything else. I think he’s just an ass.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

           It’s not a free hall pass, but how about some empathy, people? You’re screaming that Ven lacks empathy; how about some empathy for Ven? If Ven has some disorder, and I think he does, then Ven deserves our compassion fully as much as his model does.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            IF he has one at all.  And if he does, I’m sorry for him on that count, because it sucks.  Yes, those of us with issues got a raw deal.  But you play the hand you’re dealt.  You either find a way to manage it and live with it without punishing everyone else for your damage, or you fold.  The world does not stop to accommodate anyone’s baggage. 

            And once you’re an adult, you have a certain responsibility for your own problems.  If you have an inability to deal with other people without acting like a jackass, pick up a phone, call a shrink and start dealing with it.  With medication or behavioral therapy, doesn’t really matter to the world how. 

            That’s all only IF he has some sort of medical issue.  Which he has never said that he does.  You don’t get understanding for something that you don’t disclose.  If he does have a problem, and he wants to retain some degree of privacy (which is in no way out of line, I get that), fine.  But then he is also open to be criticized for behavior that is affected by that problem. 

            Personally?  I think he’s just an asshole.

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            If he “deserves our compassion as much as his model does,” why are you badmouthing his model elsewhere in this comments section?

            Not that we mind, just that we were wondering how you reconcile these things. Because look, “I think he might have serious emotional issues based on my reading of some highly edited footage and therefore, everyone else needs to stop saying bad things about him,” simply isn’t going to fly here. You could say that about ANYONE on reality television who acts in a way that people don’t like. We might as well shut the PR recapping down completely if we were to subscribe to that thinking.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ann.verwiebe Ann VerWiebe

    Ven’s top looks like he wrapped a shiny bed sheet around his model. He really is an alien from another planet.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_K7SEDEVEYD5WGLTT5PGC6DURDQ B

    Ven is just one of those people who hates fat people, even though he is one. With women especially wearing a target. And I don’t get that. Skinny people who do that, I don’t like them, but I get them. “I’m skinny; why aren’t you skinny like me? Everyone should be skinny like me.”  As I say, I don’t like them, but I get them. Fat people who hate fat people, I don’t get, and I don’t like. Ven, go fat bash yourself. Take a long look in the mirror. Then put yourself in a shiny satin smock and tight, clingy pants. With extra zippers. See what they do for you, then write a thousand apologies to the woman you have shamed. You have no place in fashion, or in the human race. Shame. Shame on you and your attitude. Shame on anyone who has this attitude. People are all not cut out the same size, just like they are not all the same color or personality. So shame on your sorry self.

    • PaulaBerman

       I wonder if it’s not so much that he hate larger women as that he just doesn’t like women too much. Or maybe it’s that he doesn’t like other people at all.

      • Spicytomato1

        Interesting theory. I could imagine that models would be an exception in his mind, since all they need to do is keep quiet and act as clothes hangers. In fact he probably barely sees them as human.

        • PaulaBerman

           Models are women who do what they are told, right? They don’t give him any trouble, and if they do, he can fire them. Don’t want to offer spoilers from the previews, but it looks like Ven is all set to be the Season Villain with his unpleasant remarks. That means he will be around until the end of the season, unfortunately.

    • ASK26

       The attitude you describe always annoys the hell out of me – along with the assumption that “fat” or large people are all lazy and eat nothing but junk.
      In my family we have large frames/bones.   Seriously I was about 200lbs (with muscular legs) and my ribs and hip bones were visible.  Add just the average amount of fat it classifies you as morbidly obese.   (BTW my brother is large too and bikes around 30-50 miles a day, and until I messed up my knee exercised 9 to 12 hours a week – hikes, volleyball, wallyball, etc)

      Likewise the designers who  cannot seem to do the math to just “size up” clothes for larger people with traditional proportions.   

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         Not if you have a good doctor.  A friend had to go into her doctor and get an exemption for Weight Watchers.  Her “healthy” range topped out at a weight that would be the absolute LOWEST she’d ever be able to go without being really unhealthy.

        I discovered something really interesting when I started talking about my weight loss and how it came about.  People have NO concept of weight or size.  I say to people that I was 220 and a size 18, and they insist that must be wrong, that I was never that big.  Now, I’m still confused why I would lie about that, but I finally figured out that the image people have in their heads of a certain weight is generally wrong.

    • watchmeboogie

      I’ve been fat, thin, and in-between, and I can tell you (with some shame) that the only time in my life I felt any contempt for fat people was when I was also fat, and it was because I hated myself. Maybe that’s Ven’s problem, and he hides it behind that “I don’t care” attitude. (Not making excuses, of course.)

  • http://www.lippsisters.com/ Deborah Lipp

    As I said in the Lounge, I’m pretty sure that this was intended to be a two-person elimination. They changed it because they’d lost an extra designer, but decided to keep the “one OR MORE” torture in to abuse Ven some more. Which he deserved.

    I love your idea of Clinton & Stacy doing a guest appearance. I’d love to see them critique each designer’s work based on wearability and so on.

    The greatest thing about Fabio’s design is that it effected the change the client and her friend wanted. It allowed her to express femininity without being soft or weak. It established that a dress can be a little butch. The belt was awful, though.

    Nathan has been sweet all along, but also passive. He did what the client told him. Passively. Meekly. 

    • ampg

      TERRIFIC analysis of why Fabio’s design deserved the win.  While I agree with TLo that it helped a lot that they “got” each other, it can’t be denied that “make a dress that doesn’t make the wearer feel like she’s wearing a dress” is actually a really hard challenge.

    • VictoriaDiNardo

      is impuls to add a slash of orange was a good one I think – I love gray and orange.  But it should have been a solid line, or don’t go there.  
      I loved that dress – would wear it in a heartbeat!

  • http://www.facebook.com/bert.keeter Bert Keeter

    Ven should have gone, not NATHAN!

    • MissAnnieRN

      I agree, Bert – looking forward to your blog entry on this topic.  Ven needs a personal mentor like Uncle Bert to help him understand how to flatter diverse body shapes.  If you can’t design for woman of various shapes, you will never have success as a designer.  Preaching to the choir, I know.

      • http://www.lifeinspice.com/ rose88

         Ven doesn’t deserve an Uncle Bert.  Nor would he listen to a word he said.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           You’re right, I should get Uncle Bert instead! :P

    • PastryGoddess

      I’m sick and tired of designers playing the its not fair card. 

      I learned in Kindergarten that life is not fair and you need to get over it.  Ven you could have sucked it up and made something halfway decent instead you continued to be a bitch about it and showed your ass AND made a hiddy outfit

      ETA: Hi Bert! Ummm…this was supposed to be it’s own comment, not sure what happened. I guess I’m still hungover from last night

      • unbornfawn

        Right? They are on a REALITY show! The nature of the beast is that they are going to mess with you.

    • Violina23

      Is this the real Bert? *waves*

  • arrisub

    Dear Ven, you are a pompous asshole and we all hate you now.  Especially we “real women”.  Signed, America

    PS You made a beautiful woman looked like a teletubby…all she needed was a silkscreened daisy or something. Jesus.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QFW22QV426LUOEPGASPZJWJMDE MishaFoomin

    LOL! The post title! So true! I was glad to see Tim giving it to Ven during the workroom critique. Can’t wait to see the extended version when I have time. And then leaving him to sweat on the runway, being last, he still couldn’t crack much emotion.

    Heidi seemed quite likable and personable, as if I could hang out with her and have fun. She certainly knows how to be nice to the “normal” people.

    Good for Fabio, and I am guaranteed to see him for another week because of the immunity. I hope he continues to improve like this.

    I was irritated that a lot of the hair makeovers came down to bobs. How much of the transformations are influenced by what is currently cool as opposed to what is the most flattering for a person?

  • Jangle57

    Talk about pot calling the kettle black.  And the thing that REALLY got me is I don’t think his client was that much larger than some of the other women.  Jerk to the nth degree. 

  • http://twitter.com/juliafoxtrot Julia Fox

    I hated that he kept calling Terri plus-sized. Size 14 is NOT plus sized, at least going by “real world” standards. Any department store I have ever entered, plus size starts around 18/20.

    • Terrie_S

      Right. Isn’t 12-14 the average size these days? When he said “Size 14″ like it was the Plague, I did a bit of o_O.

    • CozyCat

      Yes.  Tim corrected him on that.

      The saddest thing is that his client looked thinner “before” than she did in her “after” outfit.

    • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

      Actually, most plus size manufacturers start their merchandise at 14. Medium is often 14-16, large is 18-20, 1x is 22-24 and so on. 

      • Sweetbetty

         Not the true plus-size manufacturers.  Medium is not plus-size.  In my many years of plus-size shopping I’ve found that the top in “regular” size is 18, and plus-size, as reflected by the location in the store and the increase in price, starts at 20.

        • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

          That is true for department stores that carry juniors, misses, petites and women’s sizes. However, plus-size-only stores and web sites usually start at 14, which they call medium.

  • Anathema_Device

    I was pretty shocked by Ven’s behavior. I knew he felt he was above all the workroom drama and was a bit arrogant, but I had no idea he was such a dick. Tim gave him such a great talk. I thought for sure, the producers were setting it up for Ven’s big redemption during the episode. Ugh. And that he kept complaining, even in the green/waiting room? Sorry bud. You’re on my shit list now.

    I felt bad for Nathan. I was just starting to pay attention to him. He seems very sweet, but dear lord, has he not watched the show before. The designer who abandons his or her aesthetic is the one who gets the boot! And royal blue satin? No.

    Glad Fabio got the win. That was a really cool dress that was just this side of the over-designed line. He made it interesting, but not complicated.

  • Judy_J

    I didn’t get to watch last night, but I taped the show and will watch when I get home.  Unlike most people, spoilers don’t bother me, and I wanted to read what the other bitter kittens thought of what transpired.  I’ve never warmed up to Ven, but from what I’m reading here, he really showed his butt in this episode.  Every episode is starting to smell more like scripted TV, which is too bad, because the original concept and first seasons of PR were so wonderfully real.

  • MissAnnieRN

    I hope that Terri gets to go on WNTW with Stacey and Clinton.  Because that woman so desperately needs the boost to her self esteem that would bring.  She didn’t look particularly comfortable with herself at the beginning of that show before Ven repeatedly insulted her.  If that had been me, I think I would be holed up in my house today with red eyes and a tear stained face about how awfully I was treated.  I REALLY hope the producers of PR gave her something good.  Like a $5,000 credit card and personal shopper because she deserves to be compensated for how awfully she was treated.  They threw her to the wolves by assigning Ven to her.  Out of all of the walk offs this year, had she walked off, it would have been the most justifiable.  I think I might have.

    • SewingSiren

      The producers of PR are the ones that aired all the comments that Ven made in private. The “picked” her to be on the show for a very specific reason. To be humiliated. 

      • MissAnnieRN

        As cynical as that is, it could be true.  That doesn’t change the fact that Ven is an asshole, she was humiliated on national television when she was given the sales pitch of “Makeover.”  Should she have potentially been prepared for such an outcome?  Maybe.  But the way I see it, she was treated horribly and deserves compensation for said treatment.

      • SapphoPoet

        Unfortunately, I think you are absolutely right. Hopefully she understood that going in. (But probably not.)

        • SewingSiren

          I think she did only when she saw the other “clients” and that may explain why she seemed less than cooperative with Ven at the initial client /designer consult.

      • kaycem

        wow, good point.  bunim-murray DO serve the drama gods, so you’re probably right.

      • Cat

        Yes, if there was any “set up” going on it was the producers setting this poor woman up for a horrible experience.  Ven can STFU.

    • formerlyAnon

       After watching the show that aired I doubt she’ll be doing anymore t.v.! I suspect that once the producers got the drama they wanted, they aired an even worse version of Ven than the client experienced on the show – she wouldn’t have been around to hear a lot of the comments he made.

  • mom2ajs5

    I loved how on his twitter (I followed a link last night) he kept saying that they edited out all the nice, supportive things he said. Puh-leeze, it doesn’t matter if he said 50 nice things, you add in the all the awful things he said and that is what is poor client is going to remember whether she’s a size 2 or size 22.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI yahoo-FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI

      Sadly that’s how it tends to be–one social mistake and you are toast.  I remember getting a sterling insight from a supervisor decades ago whom I pressed for some information on what management was about.  He said that in management you could make a million horrible technical mistakes, but one social mistake, your career could be over.  He went on to an excellent career.  And I never liked him much because of his social teflon, but I do respect his honesty in his answer.  So maybe I like him after all.  

      • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

        We are constantly seeing examples of this in politics and entertainment. One word wrong and you lose the next election or worse, are pressured to resign. Drop your pants in an adult theatre and lose two TV shows (Fred Willard).

  • http://twitter.com/poptartsjen Pop Tarts Jen

    I really strive to NEVER body-snark, but all I could think last night was, “Ven, you fat asshole. Have some freakin’ empathy.” I really don’t care that he’s bigger (body size doesn’t make people better or worse than anybody else), but I couldn’t believe that he would be SO heartless. I mean, maybe he’s just really comfortable with himself, but even though I’ve always been super comfortable with myself, even when I was at my fattest, I was always super sensitive to how my comments might come across to a bigger person who has confidence issues.

    If you would have told me on week one that somebody would be a complete douche during the “real woman” challenge, I would have expected it to be Gunnar, but he was awesome last night. I didn’t love his dress, but he was so sweet to his client and really seemed to understand how to work with people.

    • Terrie_S

      In some ways, I’m not overly shocked. Gunnar commented in the first episode (I think?) that since his first try out, he’d really thought about who he wanted to design for and he decided that he wanted to design for Southern women. Not the most cutting edge clientle, but telling that he’s thinking about real people as his clients.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

        Southern women here. We are as “cutting edge” as anyone else.

        • Terrie_S

           99.9% of people are not cutting edge. If you want to be on the cutting edge, you tend to go to places like LA, NYC or Paris.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brent-Wolgamott/694486412 Brent Wolgamott

    Was I watching the same show as everyone else?  From the way it looked, the show rigged it so Ven got the worst girl.  Then, the minute he walked in, he was friendly, articulate, asking her about her likes.  She seemed SOUR from the get-go.  Just go back and watch!  And they sure edited it to make him look unsympathetic, stringing together 2 (in 36 hours) comments of “this belt doesn’t fit”.  He didn’t call her fat — he just acknowledged a fact. And I REALLY take issue with her “friend” driving the bus over Ven and boo-hoo-ing on stage, obviously trying to get him eliminated.  These people know the contestants are competing for their PR LIVES — conversely, these folks are there for 2 days to be on TV and look pretty (and she DID look a WHOLE lot prettier than she was).  To actively go and do something you KNOW will not help your designer, who jumped through hoops for you to make an outfit in 16 hours, I just thought was bad form.  To me, this lady looked uncomfortable from the start.  Ven (for what it’s worth) said so in his Twitter.  I know everyone dislikes him, but I didn’t see him being *that* bad.  Was he not empathetic?  Sure, he wasn’t Gunnar.  But I didn’t see him actively trying to hurt her.  OTOH, she WAS trying to get him bounced.  I call shenanigans. 

    • SewingSiren

      I wouldn’t exactly call her sour. But I don’t think she wanted to be there. And I wonder why she agreed to it. Ven did ask her a lot of questions and she did not seem forthcoming about what she wanted. The friend did. And perhaps the friend though. 
      Ven was very blunt with his assessment of his clients figure. He could have been more tactful , but most of what he said, aside from the belt issue was away from the client. I do think that the garment he made for her was very flattering. His client looked better than at least half of the others on stage.

      • kaycem

        i don’t think she was particularly happy to be there, either.  but i had a whole conversation w/ my girlfriend about how either of us would feel about getting called out by a friend as “in need of a makeover.”  i mean, it’s not going to make most people feel great.  and i’m projecting a bit here, but if she indeed had a negative body image, she’s not going to be exactly happy about being on camera.  i definitely disagree about the “flattering” thing, tho.  i actually didn’t mind the skirt, once the bottom zip came up and she showed a bit of leg, but i’m with whichever judge (i think it was ms. kors) who said that satin just isn’t flattering on anyone.

        • SewingSiren

          I don’t think the turquoise fabric was satin. It looks like a very drapey jersey  (maybe silk or rayon). I think it’s the same type that Gunner used  for the day/night look, but Gunners was black.

          • kaycem

            ah — the shininess threw me off!

          • Sweetbetty

            It looked to me like the cheap poly-satin that you buy at Joanne Fabrics this time of year to make Halloween costumes.

          • turtleemily

            According to Mood’s website, it’s a polyester, stretch charmeuse.

        • yulaffin

           I didn’t think anything about that outfit looked good on her.  I especially hated the skirt with that zipper slit.  Not flattering at all.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

           Then she should have said no. No one forced her to go on PR.

      • Violina23

        Body language can say a lot though — I don’t think he made any effort to hide his disappointment, and she clearly picked up on it.

    • Violina23

      Sorry, but you’re kinda making a politician’s argument. Yes, he didn’t directly call her fat, but his outward frustration, the disdain with which he kept saying “Your shape”, the stuff with the belts, the constant sighs of disappointment… He was calling her fat in basically EVERY way he could, short of using the actual word “fat”. 

      I think she was kinda shy and lacking confidence, and all these not-so-subtle digs ate away at whatever confidence she had left. Granted, It’s not Ven’s fault if she has low self-esteem, but it *was* Ven’s job to make her feel like she belonged on the runway.  Imagine the difference had she had a designer with Gunnar’s enthusiasm, who made her genuinely feel special and beautiful. 

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI yahoo-FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI

        I wonder if by not calling her directly “fat” he thought he was meeting the social requirement for being diplomatic.  His voice seemed to be mostly outwardly polite to his client rather than screaming, and he may have perceived that he met the basic social requirement.  He was wrong, he didn’t go far enough, and I suspect that he is now very surprised.  However, Tim gave an excellent speech about what he could do to overcome.  Don’t know if he took any of it to heart, though.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

         Her tweets don’t reflect a “shy” personality. I agree with Brent.

    • nannypoo

      I agree that there was lots of manipulation going on, and Ven’s client did seem to be less than enthusiastic during the entire process, but when you combine his negative interactions with her and his many criticisms of his colleagues throughout the show, including in the room at the end of last night’s episode while they waited for Tim, I just can’t find much to like about him.

  • Judy_S

    Re fat Ven: I don’t read him as fat, exactly, just really big.If Gunnar or Dmitri had taken the same attitude to their clients it would have been just as obnoxious. But with Ven it’s the ironclad confidence and security in his own greatness–as expressed by folding fabric into cool shapes on mannequins–that makes it almost scary. His sense that he should just be given the prize straight off and allowed to leave in his Lexus. To my mind, his physical presence is part of his overbearing nature, and I suspect that when he looks in the mirror he sees a powerful man, not a “chubs.” I guess what I like about TLo calling him “Chubs” is not the pejorative flavor but the diminutive flavor of the term, if you see what I mean.

  • PaulaBerman

    What makes me the most mad about Ven is that he is still tweeting about how the whole thing was NOT FAIR. Even if it’s a set up, get over it! It’s not like there wasn’t a plus sized woman in the Top 3 this week, and I don’t hear Gunnar whining (and he certainly isn’t above it). I mean, I teach middle schoolers, and I hear that self-pitying boo hooing from them all the time, but from a grown ass man? I expect some perspective. As TLo said, this was an opportunity for a real triumph. If he had done what Gunnar did and gotten Terry to walk down that runway with glee and pride, even if the design was meh he would have been praised to the skies. Instead, he is self-righteously defending his mean-spiritedness and small-mindedness still. Do not like.

    I also thought it was hilarious that Heidi took umbrage at the “real woman” comment, as if she hadn’t coined it herself.

  • Cat

    Yes, I want to know the answer to this as well.  Didn’t he win some kind of “Student of the Year” award at his school?  Is there not one class to teach designers how to make clothes over a size 4?  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5UQHEKG5EDX4T6NMARUC565TPQ Amy

    I adored  Nathan as well and was hoping to see him stick around to have a shining moment. I also liked how everyone (aside from Ven) had an “awww” moment in this challenge (ie Gunnar, Elena). I agree that nothing is ever random, including these sappy moments, but I would like to think the good parts were at the very least somewhat sincere.

  • almondemy

    I am coveting Fabio’s dress, like, SERIOUSLY.  I would cut a b**** to buy that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dale.wittig Dale Wittig

    Ven wasn’t so much set up as he was ambushed, hog-tied and repeatedly kicked.

  • ballerinawithagun

    Adore Fabio’s dress. Perfect for an artist. I loved that the judges were able to step away from the fashion world and into the Artwear world.

  • http://twitter.com/watchinginkdry Krysta

    You know, it really bugs me that so much of the reaction to Ven seems to be “He called her fat?? But he’s fat himself!” As if, if he HAD been as svelte as a model, it would’ve been okay.  The point is that bodysnarking, regardless of the weight of the snarker or the snarkee, is incredibly rude.

    • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

      “As if, if he HAD been as svelte as a model, it would’ve been okay. ”

      That is clearly not the point at all. The point is his own hypocrisy.

      • http://twitter.com/watchinginkdry Krysta

        Sure, it’s added hypocrisy, but . . . if it’s the snarking that’s the problem, then focus on that, not his own body type. 

        (I will add that I think you guys are among the best of the deliberately non-bodysnarking very best in the fashion blog world.  But this reaction–which I’ve seen a LOT of people have–bothers me.)

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           No, he’s an asshole for how he treated her.  He’s a hypocritical asshole for the fact that he did it while being none too small himself.

        • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

           You can’t point out the hypocrisy without pointing out his body type. Body snarking is criticizing someone for having a certain kind of body or a perceived body flaw. That’s not what’s going on here.

          • http://twitter.com/watchinginkdry Krysta

            That’s true. . . but to my mind, it’s still a bit yuck to to intensify the critique of his behavior (which was awful) by pointing out that he’s fat.  He’s a jerk.  The fact that he’s a fat jerk doesn’t change it all that much.

            Plus, the headline isn’t “Take a look in the mirror, hypocrite”–it’s “Chubs.” Seems like an insult focused more on weight than on the hypocrisy of his behavior.  And it’s certainly not just you guys; people aren’t, by and large, saying “He’s calling her fat, he’s a hypocrite!”; they’re saying “he’s calling her fat, he’s fat!” Seems a little different.

          • holdmewhileimnaked

            i’m really tired [i work nights] or i’d put this better. but it’s somewhere between what pots call kettles &, my very favorite, do unto others.

            it’s not bodysnarking, for heavens sake.

          • Violina23

            I’m not sure I see the difference between those two phrases —  if you saw “He’s calling her fat, he’s a hypocrite” out of context, the only logical conclusion you could come to is that the “he” in question is fat. 

            I think the point is that, if Ven’s actions & comments weren’t bad enough, you have that extra layer of hypocrisy on top that makes it all the more ridiculous and indefensible. You can’t even argue that he oblivious to what the challenges of having a larger shape are. He SHOULD know better

  • BelleBook

    There’s not much I can disagree with concerning Ven, Tom and Lorenzo.  Although I wouldn’t really call Ven an “asshole”, mainly because it lacks imagination.  How about “vainglorious idiot”, or “maroon (as the immortal Bugs Bunny would say), or even a “ninCOWpoop (again, like Bugs would say)?  Those would be even better!

    Maybe the assignments *weren’t* random, maybe they were.  But even if Ven was set up by getting a larger woman, I think Gunnar was too — and he handled his assignment much better than Ven.  Ven could have just tried to swallow his horror and tried to work with his client as best he could.  He should have COMPROMISED, using his aesthetic while satisfying his client’s needs.  But instead, it was his way or the highway.  And if I’d been his client?  I’d have chosen the highway — if I could have done so.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

      She should have walked. What could the producers have done? Sue her? What could they get? They couldn’t get specific performance (force her to perform); such contracts aren’t enforced. Money? Unlikely. Giant corporation sues hardworking mom of four. But okay; maybe. How would they have collected? Can’t get blood from a stone.

      • BelleBook

        Well, it’s possible that when she agreed to be on the show, Terri agreed not to walk off and it was part of her contract.  But if it wasn’t then yeah, she should have walked.  And trust me, if I’d been his client and it wasn’t part of my contract to stick around, I’d have chosen the highway and walked!

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         First of all, the woman never said she was broke, so there are assets she may have not wanted to lose.  But you’re right, it would never happen anyway.

        But maybe she thought walking out on something she agreed to was wrong.  My mother always told us that once you agreed to do something, you did it. 

  • clarknt67

    I noticed Gunnar’s model was the same size as Venn’s. What a loser excuse for Venn.

    • kaycem

      i think gunnar’s was actually a bit harder to design for b/c her boobs were even bigger!  and can i just say that the way gunnar happily and gracefully jumped to the “real woman” task actually made me like him a bit?  which i sort of resent, since he’s usually such a yappy little nutjob.  ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/izzzyy Dixie Murphy Ross

    I’d wear the winning dress. It’s cute, I think it’d be flattering on me (and I’m about twice her size), and really wish this was being produced for sale.

    Also, Ven… meh. I agree it wasn’t random (BS sensors, everyone! Had they not said “this was random” I wouldn’t have even thought of it), but nothing excuses the way you spoke to that girl. Then again, I don’t think she was entirely happy to be there, and probably feels even worse, now. It was a loss for everyone. Poor thing.

  • http://twitter.com/astrosexy єℓιzαвєтн。

    I’m rooting against Venbot in spite of his talent. His attitude is ugly. 

  • littlemissstrange

    I think that what Alicia said was spot on. She may not be the most talented designer but she gets that to be a good designer you can’t have such a narrow vision of fashion. Everyone is capable of looking beautiful, you just gotta figure out what will flatter them. For big girls it’s definitely not a satin sack. With a shitty cheap-looking skirt with a hookery diagonal slit up the thigh. That shows that you don’t think that big girls can be beautiful and, consequently, you don’t have much imagination and aren’t a very good designer. You’re actually a whiny little narrow-minded shit.

    And seriously. He was bigger than his model. What. The. Fuck.

  • amy_raks

    Has difficulty with picking up social cues, appears to lack empathy, dislikes change in routines, speech lacks tone, pitch, accent, verbalizes internal thoughts (no filter), overly attentive to details . . . all traits of Aspergers.  IF that’s the case for Ven, I’m not saying it’s an excuse for how he interacted with his client. (I’ve thought he might be on the Autism spectrum since the first episode. I’m not an expert, but have interacted with many individuals affected by some form of Autism. Ven reminds me of some of them.)

  • JMB_edits

    Does anyone know if they ever got Ven’s client paired up with a REAL designer after the show to make up for the HORRIBLE experience she just had???  They took a woman uncomfortable with fashion and putting herself out there and what was supposed to be a good experience turned into a terrible one!!!

    • fatveg

      Michael Costello has offered to make her a dress via Twitter…

      • Colleen Robinson

        Did he really? Because I’m not a Costello fan, but that’s really awesome of him.

        • fatveg

          Yes. Terri’s Twitter hashtag is @terriherlihy23 — you can see the details there. She’s getting a lot of love on Twitter.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           Really.  And Terri mentions that her weight gain was from medical problems, including a hysterectomy and tumors — so then he makes her feel even worse about the gain side effect, which she was probably already quite upset enough about.

  • Sweetvegan

    @Venbudhu You should have known by measuring the belts. No need to embarrass client. #projectrunway #teamven

  • http://twitter.com/AliveonShelves Lisa H.

    Here’s the thing: it was not just a set-up for Ven. Did anyone expect Alicia to make a girly pink dress? Or for Elena to make something pretty and feminine? They baited the trap, but Ven jumped in, mouth first.

    • KaileeM

       That’s an excellent point. The producers definitely tried to set a few traps, but Ven was the only one to take the bait with such ferocity.

    • Cat

      Exactly.  I really wish he’d get over this “set up” thing.  It’s not The Ven Show.  He’s there to be set up and put through unexpected challenges that the producers throw at him.  If he was at all smart or a good designer or competitor wouldn’t he have one go-to dress or outfit that would work on a size 12 body?  DUH!  How about a great, simple A-line dress with a v-neck?  Looks good on every body.

  • dickylarue

    There’s no doubt in my mind this was a setup from the get go. That being said, the fact that Ven played into the Producer’s manipulations so easily tells you everything you need to know about him as a person & a designer. The belt fittings were sad. Of course the accessories wouldn’t fit her. They’re for size 0′s. His bedside manner was horrible and he pretty much destroyed his future as a mainstream designer that day. The outfit he designed for her was so ugly. I don’t know how Nina could find anything to like in that awful skirt. What happens next? Either he’ll have an emotional breakdown episode hoping to regain some sympathy or he’ll be the villain who loses. His future is not what it was just a week ago and his best hopes is to get a job for a more prominent designer. Right now the thought of him having his own label that will attract “real women” to buy anything he designs is a pipe dream. I don’t feel sorry for him but I do think the producers of this show just did a Tonya Harding on Nancy Kerrigan’s knees to him. 

    • Sweetbetty

       ”Either he’ll have an emotional breakdown episode hoping to regain some sympathy”

      Emotionless Ven having an emotional breakdown.  That would be something to see.  I’d love to know more about his background and family; like, was he raised in some sort of tribe or cult that discourages the showing of emotion.  Was he ever shown any love as an infant or was he simply cared for and now suffers from a dissociative personality disorder?  I’ll bet Discovery Channel could make a weeks-long series studying his background and explaining how he came to be the person he is today.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

       When you look at it like that, it is possible to feel some sympathy for Ven. If the producers knew how he would react, and set him up to self-destruct, poor Ven. After all, we are slaves to our emotional issues. People look at us and say we should know better or we should behave. They don’t realize that we would behave if we could.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

         No, we are not slaves to our issues.  Because we’re grown ups now, and that means owning your issues.  Is it hard?  Yes.  So’s childbirth.  Yet it happens every day.  Anyone who tells you they don’t have a choice is looking for an excuse, not a reason.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

          I respectfully disagree; we are not to blame for emotional/psychiatric issues.

  • eight_of_nine

    I was thinking about the “real woman” challenges in PR history, and it always seems to be a male designer who freaks out about it. Has there ever been a female designer who acted like Ven or Olivier?

    But of course, men are the stronger designers. *headdesk*

  • piperkitty

    Ven is built like a tugboat. His self awareness is zero.

    • SewingSiren

      Now he never compared his own body favorably to his clients. I’m fairly certain (but not positive) that he would assess his own body just as bluntly if there were a challenge to dress yourself. And there has been in the past.

      • piperkitty

        My comment went to his lack of empathy for a client who seemed shy and hesitant. His disrespect was what I was refering to. The irony of his complaint can not be ignored. He made the client more self concious than I think she was to begin with.

      • Susan Crawford

        Perhaps he would assess himself as a heavyset man. But suppose he walked into a bespoke menswear shop and the tailor assigned to make him a suit treated him the way he treated Terri? Didn’t listen to him when he tried to say what he liked, how he lived, what he needed; clearly indicated that Ven’s size would be problematic; brought out things that would obviously be too small and then said how well they would have worked but Ven was too big; commented to colleagues how much luckier they were to be working with slender guys while he was stuck with Ven . . .

        Number 1 – if that has EVER happened in any way to Ven, and he STILL chose to act like an asshat, then he is worthless.
        Number 2 – if Ven experienced this behavior, would HE tolerate it? Or would he have walked out of that shop? Or called the manager and reported the intolerably rude attitude of an employee? Or confronted said employee and ripped him a new one?
        Number 3 – if Ven is honest about his own body, then he MUST be aware of how important it is to consider fit and proportion, and to know yourself and your style so you can make good choices; too bad he didn’t accord Terri any awareness, or help her start to define herself better in terms of style.

  • Susan Crawford

    Up until this episode, I found Ven annoyingly “flat-affect” and judgemental. But now? Wait just a moment while I take another dose of my blood pressure medication. . . OK.

    I do question the “randomness” of the assignments, but it is what Bunim/Murray is, or want it to be. So deal with it. And yes, probably at some production meeting, it was decided to put VenBot right into a situation where he would implode.

    I understand that many young designers DON’T have a lot of experience with a variety of clients with all sorts of size, body-proportion and specific emotional and image needs. But Ven is no kid, and of ALL the remaining designers, he should have had FAR more understanding of the whole process of working with a client. Which starts with the willingness NOT to judge and dismiss her at first glance.

    He asked virtually NO questions about who she was, how she lived, what she loved about her body, and what she was concerned with. He didn’t ask her what her favorite color-ranges were. He didn’t ask about her dreams. He didn’t care, and came across as dismissive and disdainful in both his interactions with the client and her friend (who, by the way, was an absolute ANGEL), or in his face-the-camera moments. Every single comment he made, aside from saying her new haircut looked good was ouble-edged
    and designed to make this young woman feel inadequate and convey Ven’s displeasure at being saddled with her. He ended up creating a look that was blatantly unflattering, cheap-looking, inappropriate in EVERY way for the life this gal leads (and it is a pretty challenging life – but of course, Ven knew nothing about it, because he couldn’t be bothered to ask). He should have gone home, I believe.

    Nathan’s design was definitely dictated by his client, and yes, it was pretty “hoochie-mama” (and I loved that the phrase had to be translated for Ms. Temperley!) But when the judges slammed him for letting the client dictate everything and turn him into a seamstress, I found myself thinking that while this is not the mark of a designer, it is really preferable to what Ven did, which was to ignore, insult and hurt his client’s feelings, and put her into something that she had no input into, and that makes her feel sad.

    I loved Fabio’s client and her friend! And they had such good rapport with Fabio, who managed to figure out from their chat and his questions that it was time to talk dresses, Miss Ko-Rely, and give the grunge look a rest. Her new hairstyle was an awesome start to the makeover, and I think it helped inspire Fabio.

    Didn’t you love the comment at Mood from Fabio: “Four shades of grey – great!” The abridged version of the bestseller? And when Ko-Rely came down that runway, walking along like the little tomboy star of the championship Little League team, I was grinning from ear to ear. Adorable! She was owning her new look, and I think it was well-styled, although I also questioned the belt, which looked a little too sporty. Maybe she didn’t need a belt at all, or maybe a skinny little silver metallic or plain black would have been better? But: moot point, because it was the winning look!

    Fabio deserved the win not only for the design he created, but for working so well with his client and her friend. She had some doubts about being too “girlie”, and he got it. He knew getting her into a dress would mean putting some effort into a design that would reflect her attitude, and her need to appear powerful and competent. And he came up with a design that was pretty without being girlie, and that put a smile on his client’s face. Maybe it even inspired her a little? I would not be surprised.

    Ven’s final critique was a thinly-veiled threat to get with the program. But, being Ven, he didn’t listen. No, it was all “I shouldn’t have been the last one up there.  . . it wasn’t fair . . .” Sucks to you, Ven, and your attitude. I detest your open distaste for larger-sized women, for feeling put-upon because some other contestants had slimmer clients, for designing for older women (because, yes, not content to moan about her body, you had to throw in her age – and what was she, a withered crone? No, she was a lovely, vibrant 40-something.)

    And last, but not least, Ven, you are a heavyset guy. All that moaning about your client? Was that self-loathing, perhaps? No, I’m not going to give you ANY out here – you were an insensitive, self-absorbed asshat and you should have been eliminated.

  • unbornfawn

    In the costume shop where I work we have a sign that says: “There is nothing wrong with your body. It is a beautiful canvas on which we will make art.”  A sentiment I think Ven needs to learn. Why are you in fashion, Ven? Do you want to make beautiful clothes? Beautiful clothes on a dress form do not always translate to beautiful clothes on a human body. No matter how tall, thin and young. The woman and her body must be considered when designing an outfit. Even the youngest bitter kitten understands that connection.  It takes WORK to make it WERQ!

  • Sweetbetty

    “One other thing: all the dismay from the judges that Ven would ever use
    the term “real woman” to describe his client was pure bullshit, since
    they’ve been using that very term FOR YEARS on this show.”

    I was screaming that at my TV all through the show.  Just one more in a long line of ways this show has contradicted itself and lost its cred.

  • Kathy Schrenk

    I can’t remember PR ever doing a maternity challenge. Now THAT would be interesting. Maternity clothes suck.

    • ampg

      They did one a few seasons back, but with models in strap-on bellies.  The results were pretty forgettable, which is probably why you don’t remember it.

      • Kathy Schrenk

        Yeah, it sounds vaguely familiar now. Actual pregnant women would be something.

        • formerlyAnon

           I bet they hesitate to have actual pregnant women hanging about for the hours and hours in insufficient air conditioning that former contestants report it takes to film the runway segment.

          Even though *most* pregnant women are perfectly healthy and perform more challenging physical feats in the course of daily life, I imagine the lawyers are leery.

    • KaileeM

       They did do a maternity challenge in Season 6. Of course, it wasn’t real pregnant women. It was their own models with pillows tucked under their dresses! It was pretty unrealistic for maternity wear. I seem to remember several looks you couldn’t even wear a bra with! When I was pregnant the only time I felt I could get away without wearing a bra was in the shower!

    • Sweetbetty

       I remember at least one; they had to design a look for some pregnant celebrity to wear to a red carpet event.  The only design I remember was a dress that everyone compared to a bowling bag, it was that bad.

  • http://summerborn.livejournal.com/ Summer Born

    TLo delivers.

  • YousmelllikeAnnaWintour

    I respect your outlook on the situation.  Me, well, I drive myself crazy sometimes.  If someone is incredibly talented at what they do, but has a nasty, shitty personality, it’s really hard for me to be objective about their work.  I really have to work on that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1208138556 Sara Munoz Munoz

    Frankly, I think the button bag is rigged, too.

    • holdmewhileimnaked

      ibid, ibid, a thousand times ibid.

    • Sweetbetty

       I’ve thought that for a while.  I want to see them shake it up real good before they start pulling from it and letting us see what’s on the button.  Of course, they could edit that to suit themselves too…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RHLSUVX3NCPB4OSS5BM7GZIXUE P. Capet

    Ven’s design looked like a caricature of a french hooker from an old movie.  it’s ridiculous that he wasn’t sent packing, even taking into account that the judges liked his past work.  his behavior was indefensible.  who cares if it was a set-up?  hasn’t he seen this show?  he should have prepared for the fact that he might have to design a garment for a, god forbid, real-world client.  his outfit sucked, he’s a tool and his behavior shouldn’t have been glossed over during the judging.  he was pissed that he had this “unfair” handicap and took it out on this unsuspecting woman.  good luck finding work after the show, big guy. 

    as for nathan, the outfit didn’t bother me that much.  i mean, it’s for the stage and she wanted it that way.  i can’t believe heidi was complaining about a slutty look. 

    • Stubenville

      Needs a beret.  =)

  • KaileeM

    I didn’t *like* Ven before last night’s episode, he’s a talented designer but nothing to “root for” in terms of personality. But now? And after the clip of next week’s episode regarding women designers? ARGH! SMASH! YOU ARE A DICK!

    It made me long for sweet Uli. When Season 3 was faced with the “real woman” challenge and worked with the designer’s mothers, Uli made a KILLER top for her model who was plus-sized. For the life of me, I do not understand these designers who only want to make clothes for models. They DO want to make money, yes? Then they must realize the unwashed masses, which will include women larger than a size 2, will be trying on their clothes and, hopefully, buying them?

  • Colleen Robinson

    You know, I remember in Season 3 that Robert ended up with a very large woman (definitely larger than Ven’s woman last night) and, to my memory, he never did anything to make her feel like less of a person for her size. So Ven’s comment about ending up with a larger woman is bull.

    I kind of hope they have a challenge where the designers have to make outfits for each other and whoever gets stuck with Ven makes snide comments about his size while trying to fit him.

    • SewingSiren

      Robert was eliminated in that challenge. 
      Michael Kors comment to him was that he made his client look bigger.

      • Colleen Robinson

        Oh, I remember that. My point is that he wasn’t an ass to he simply because she was a large woman.

        • blondie65

          Robert Best is a class act!

    • Susan Collier

      Robert’s client kinda sunk him though, because she was pretty demanding in what she was even willing to wear. So he threw himself on his pinking shears and gave her a tomato sack and jacket. It was pretty awful.

      Meantime, Uli created an awesome outfit for someone’s mom, who had similar proportions to Ven’s client. THAT should have been Uli’s win instead of the reversible shirtdress that Michael designed for someone’s skinny sister.

      • bitchybitchybitchy

        That was the challenge with the moms or sisters, and yes, Robert’s client was very definite about what she wanted. I think that Uli designed for Kayne’s mom, who was a doll.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129137319 Paula Pertile

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I was doing some serious cat hissing at the TV. And went to bed in a bad mood.
    I wish I could send that poor woman some flowers. 

    Poor Nathan. I hope he lands OK somewhere.

    Love Fabio’s dress. Happy people!

    I wish they could do a “Siamese Twins” challenge. Or someone else “physically challenged” in some real way. You know, like a lot of ‘real people’ are, who still like to wear nice clothes.

    • http://viridianpostcard.blogspot.com/ viridian61

      Indeed, design for a physically challenged person (someone in a wheelchair comes to mind) who may have certain requirements as to how the clothes come on and off, or other considerations.  But they still want to look great.

      • formerlyAnon

         I thought of this immediately (clients who use wheelchairs), but we’ll never see it. The public relations nightmare that could ensue would never be risked.  If you’re not familiar with the community of the dis/differently-abled, there is a minefield of ways to be insensitive, rude or even offensive – and even if all of the clients are gracious about it, the viewing audience wouldn’t be.

  • Miss_Magpie

    As I tweeted last night, Ven reminds me of Varys, the Eunuch in the Game of Thrones.  Can’t stand either one of them!

    • Charis G

      This makes me sad — I found Varys fascinating (if not necessarily likeable) in the books, and Conleth Hill is doing a fantastic job of making him oddly sympathetic (IMO) in the TV show.

      Besides, Ven doesn’t seem to have the calculated cunning and restraint necessary to be Varys. XD

      • Miss_Magpie

        It is more of a physical resemblance, really, but I agree, Varys is far more likeable than Ven in last night’s episode!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QYNAGYILEHAIYAZP2BEIPGJJIQ Cindy

    It’s always the overweight men who expect every woman to be a perfect size 4.  My daughter and I were throwing insults at Ven the entire show.  Where I didn’t like him before, I really don’t like him now.  The top of his outfit seemed to add more weight to that poor lady, it was not flattering in the least.  And Tim Gunn always says that you shouldn’t chop your body in half if you’re plus sized.  I’m not a twitter follower, but I hope everyone’s giving Ven the smackdown at his idiotic excuses.

  • http://twitter.com/BTLVintage Margaret Leyden

    Ven messed up on so many levels.  He didn’t interview his client to see what her needs were.  He didn’t even attempt to put her first (ever hear the customer is always right Ven?).  What would have been wrong with him making a belt for her since the ones provided weren’t large enough, or perhaps hook two of the belts together to make one large enough?  

    He really put his foot in it as the plus size market encompasses a lot of women.  All women want is to look great, regardless of their size. We’re used to wearing shapewear as Tim put it so delicately to get the look we want.  Did he ever discuss that with her and ask her if she was open to that?  

    After being kept out there on the runway last to have his talking to from the judges it was apparent when he went backstage that he had not learned a darn thing.  

    Terri was a lovely client who was there for what was supposed to be an uplifting moment and all she got was Ven.  So not right.

    • Stubenville

      In the real world, you’re right. On Project Runway, the customer is always right… unless Nina dislikes the look. Then the designer should have “educated” his/her client. So do you try to please the judges at the risk of potentially annoying your client? It’s a minefield.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

      They didn’t keep Ven out there to give him a “talking” to. They kept him out there to milk the drama for us, the audience. They knew we would be screaming for his head on a platter, so they placated us by letting us think, for just a little while, that Ven would be eliminated. But we all knew better. All of us who have watched this show through the years knew that there was not a snowball’s chance in hell that the producers would eliminate a contestant who had so thoroughly alienated the women who watch this show. Plus-sized or not, they knew we would be united in our hatred for Ven, and there is no way they would throw away a ratings bonanza like that. We want to see him get his, and they know we will be watching the show with bated breath until then.

  • Kara McBride

    Ven’s obvious hatefulness aside, am I the only one who thought Gunnar’s dress looked like a giant mess? The center “stripe” of fabric, if you will, was all wonky and askew, and the back near the neck (and that cutout!) was horribly crooked. They didn’t give us much of a look at the back (I’m sure because the producers wanted Gunnar in the top three to provide contrast re: “How does your plus-size-ish client like her dress? How did you work together?”), but from what I could tell from the brief seconds on the runway, it was awful. I also thought the waistline hit too high (there’s empire and then there’s underwire; this fell at the latter, imo). I think Chris deserved Gunnar’s spot up there.

    • Lilithcat

      I thought Gunnar’s dress was way over-designed.

    • GTrain

      I think Gunnar’s dress was awful and the client was the main reason he got so much praise.

    • emily mcginnis

      Gunnar’s dress was sewn horribly. i commented on that last night. i liked the bottom part and that he tried to make it something special for her. i think he spent too much time doing that and didn’t have enough time left to make the top part less of a mess. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

       You are not the only one. Ven suspects a set-up; well, the designers in the bottom three should, as well. There is no way Gunnar’s dress belonged in the top three. Gunnar should have been up for elimination. That dress has no redeeming qualities. And what about that black dress with the giant shawl? Why wasn’t that in the bottom three? It was too tight and too short.

  • BrooklynBomber

    Poor Nathan had to go, no doubt.

    I loved Fabio’s dress;  it’s so different, and it also edged out the other almost-winner (the blue dress; I can’t think of who designed it at the moment) because it FIT, whereas the blue was a size too small.

    I think the fake aufing was to put the fear of God into Ven; no way they were going to let him go. But the producers know what goes on, and wanted to scare him. However, the one I thought might have been hissy about not having a model was Gunnar, and he completely redeemed himself! Who knew!

  • marilyn

    They are going to do the old switcheroo:  Whenever someone is absolutely horrible and should go home, but does not, that person ALWAYS goes home either the next week, or the week after.  SInce the shows are already finished for this season, let’s see if it works out one more time.

    I thought that Nathan’s outfit was not as horrible as Ven’s.  Social issues aside, Ven made a very matronly, ugly, uninspired and dowdy dress for his client.  Nathan just followed his client’s request for a marginally trashy look.  The dress fit her form, and the colors were good for her.  She was a young, aspiring R&B singer.  The panels were dark enough that the dress just looked two-toned, not see through.  Considering it is for performing, I was not offended by it.  Ithought it could be passed off  as off-the-rack stuff, and I think teenage girls would buy it.  It has the illusion of being slutty, without actually showing much.   I actually thought it was clever of him.

    However, the turquoise and black mess that Ven made was unattractive for the model.  The top color was okay for her.  But the cut of the top and the fact that the colors cut her in half made it a disaster.   The long collar in the back, and all the business on top was awful.  It was horrible home sewing, and extremembly poor design.  Ven should have gone home for that alone.  The marginally unfeeling comments that made his client uncomfortable should have sealed the deal with the judges. 

    I am overweight.  I was not offended by his comments.  It is a fact that when women are larger, some things do not fit.  In this situaiton-you know, a dress is being made for her on a national television show, so, her shape and size would have to be discussed.  I would not be offended if I had been in her place.  I have tried on my share of belts that were too small.  It was understandable.  Besides, she knew she was going on national television.  It is what it is.  But, I would have been very offended by the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink-awful-mess-of-a-dress he made.  Larger women can look attractive, and Ven did not even try.  He made her look heavier in that dress than in her street clothes.   That was the bad part, not his rather clinical comments about the reality of her situation, which she faces everytime she goes into a clothing store or looks in a mirror (like me).  He really did not say that much.  My thoughts going into a clothing store and looking at myself in the mirror in the fitting room are far worse than anything he said.   I think that the other designers and the judges pounced on these few comments like hyenas picking over a dead animal.  They magnified the comments by being overly sensitive about everything that was said and seen.  I am surprised the other designers were able to finish their dresses, because they were hanging on every word and gesture coming from Ven’s work area.  But, that makes for good television. 

    However, since they have kept him, the producers will squeeze another week or two of sensationalistic drama out of Ven just being there.  This is television, and they need viewer interest to keep their revenue flowing.  So, Ven will be around for a week or two, with the other designers rolling their eyes and whispering about him behind his back, and with him either putting out some remorse for the camera, (possibly with a tearful, heartfelt confesson about some event in his life that caused him pain)  or he will be the evil villain who never says anything else about it.   And that makes for good television. 

    We are all pathetic.

  • fatveg

    If the producers really did rig it, then we must assume they purposefully gave the larger women to Ven and Gunner, probably thinking that one of them would give the desired drama. I think the real story here is the difference in how they handled the (alledged) setup.

  • BrooklynBomber

    Oh, and I thought the reason for the friends being the “clients” is that it saved the actual clients from the humiliation of being chosen by the designers. (Though of course, they could have randomly assigned them and skipped the damn velvet bag even w/o the friends.)

  • guest2visits

    Yes!!! Agree a thousand times over about the suddenly new ‘random’ selection process. This seemed very manipulated to me.
    And what confirms this and I find even stinkier; is the treatment of Christopher’s dress. When before has a model surprisingly
    ripped off her jacket at the top of the runway – instead of the end point,? Did anyone see her with the jacket on ? It was like
    she had been instructed the moment before entering the runway to take it off, immediately. And yet, Melissa’s client is ‘safely’
    under wrap (literally) the entire walk - so that her design cannot be accessed clearly by the viewing audience. And damn if his
    client didn’t clutch that jacket inside out and balled up like a dirty rag.
    I think that Ven behaved terribly and that the producers contributed to it, and that they are in fact the worst players in all of this.

    I thought Nathan’s could have been improved if the blue satin fabric were black, and not so short on her. Even though I know
    she was using it for the stage. Alot of these dresses could have been improved, if longer.
    I loved the dress Fabio created; but I DESPISE those booties. They should have been any number of sandals or flats, if she wanted
    comfort and couldn’t take walking in heels. I thought that was a poor styling issue. They visually dominate the design, in a bad way.
    eta: my comment box has not been working properly. I have to depend on the edit option to even see what I’m typing.

  • Shannon Stewart

    This is Terri’s twitter:

    https://twitter.com/terriherlihy23

    She does not have nice things to say about Ven, so I’m guessing it wasn’t the editing that made him look like a dick.

  • LC3203

    Fabio needed to find a different bra for that girl. Good lord.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQG2B3GDOIKSFYT6YDXFVOMEM4 A. Lure

    I concur with Ven on two things only:
    1. The clients were NOT randomly assigned to the designers.
    2. His sculpting techniques would not flatter women of sizes larger than 6.

    “My client is plus size; she has no shape at all,” says the stocky guy.
    I couldn’t resist commenting on the irony of that statement last night. Ven, someone designs for YOU. You do realize that while you’re not humongous, you’re certainly stocky? As a stocky guy, don’t you look for clothes that fit your body comfortably (oh, I don’t know, jackets you can close?) and make you look stylish and put-together? Why not give that woman what you would expect others to give you? How would he like it if someone were designing for him and said: He’s STOCKY. He’s SHAPELESS. He doesn’t have the washboard abs! It’s NOT FAIR!! His arrogance warps his self-awareness. I’m not implying that being stocky renders/should render one insecure and overly self-conscious, but I would have assumed that his having a not-exactly-thin physique would have made him more sympathetic to a not-exactly-size-six woman’s need and want for flattering, presentable, and fashion-oriented clothing. Everyone, regardless of size or AGE (WTF was up with THAT? “She’s old, she’s almost forty, I think,” he says. Seriosly, WTF???), deserves to feel his/her best in clothes that fit nicely and reflect his/her personality and aesthetic preferences. Be respectful. Be mindful. DON’T TRY TO FIT A BELT YOU *KNOW* HAS BEEN DESIGNED FOR A SIZE-0 WOMAN AROUND YOUR CLIENT’S WAIST! Go to the producers. Ask them for a larger belt without your client’s being privy to it (after all, you DID or SHOULD HAVE taken her measurements). If you find a suitable belt, come back to her. If you don’t, then ditch the belt idea and spare her the humiliation. Asshole.

    Fabio: I like it. I’m glad the judges are beginning to respond to his aesthetic. It is a fairly minimalistic aesthetic that concerns graphic impact, gradation, and dyeing. I like the varying shades of gray he used to create panels. The dress is somewhat masculine (and therefore in keeping with the client’s penchant for not-overtly-feminine clothing). I’d have nixed the belt. The shoes complement the outfit. My only criticism: I wish he’d have cleaned up the bottom portion of the dress a bit. It’s no biggie, but some of those pleats look kind of rough). Nice work, though.

    Nathan: He came across as a very nice (too nice) and earnest guy since the very beginning of the competition. I liked him as a contestant (he was always focused and wanted to perform well), but I was never enthusiastic about his work. It was never terrible, but it was competent and unremarkable at best. This dress? The woven bodice with the sweetheart neckline looks frumpy, not least because it is rendered in a shiny and unforgiving fabric. Best of luck, Nathan!

    • isidore256

       I disagree on #2. The dress he made for Kenley wouldn’t have worked because it would have added a lot of volume, but what about the sheath dress from episode 1 that had layers of overlapping fabric? Something like that would barely add any volume, and the layers of fabric would have the benefit of smoothing over bulges. I think Ven just didn’t think his client was worthy of his aesthetic.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQG2B3GDOIKSFYT6YDXFVOMEM4 A. Lure

        “I think Ven just didn’t think his client was worthy of his aesthetic.”

        No doubt about that. As far as he was concerned, she was unworthy of being designed for.

        I was thinking of his look for the previous challenge. That elaborately sculpted jacket (which I liked) would not work well on a woman much larger than a model. The folds wouldn’t be as crisp or equidistant. Ditto his sculpted rosette bustier (which I liked for the sheer technical prowess). I think you’re right about the sheath dress. There the draping was not so overwhelmingly sculptural, and the “rose-folds” would have worked well. He could have found a way to coincide his aesthetic to the client’s preferences (some fluid–as opposed to sculpted– draping would have worked here– i.e. the garment Uli made for Kayne’s mom in S3.)

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           Actually, I’ve found pleating very effective on plus sizes at times, depending on where and how.

  • bitchybitchybitchy

    Ven’s behavior throughout the episode was really disappointing, and downright insensitive to his client.  He failed to get to know his client, and to show that he really wanted to design something that would flatter her.  Bunim-Murray might have set him up, but it was up to him to be professional in dealing with a client who differs from his preference.

    I

  • VivianAdvanced

    I figured that their was something amiss with the “random” pairing of the designers with the various women, but how did the producers know that Ven in particular would be prejudiced against larger women or that he would even bring on much drama? He’s such a personality-less creature. Anyway, he’s a fool when he thinks that designers should only design for model-type bodies, or that it wasn’t fair that the designers with thin women were at an advantage. There are celebrities with less than svelte frames that wear couture fashions or have been featured in magazine spreads, Adele and Beth Ditto to name two. How arrogant and unprepared to assume that larger women can’t be dressed stylishly. He defeated himself in this challenge and could have prevailed if he had been more open minded. I’m forgetting some of the details, but I seem to recall not blaming Jeffrey for getting frustrated and making that lady cry. Wasn’t she rather difficult to work with and wouldn’t communicate fully what she wanted? She didn’t like anything he came up with; I remember thinking I’d get annoyed with her too, although I would have been a bit more tactful about it.

    I loved the winning design, except for the belt, which was bugging me like it was the guest judge. That problem can easily be remedied, however. And let’s hear it for Fabio for having such a cute boyfriend! I wonder if they had some fun first dates combing dumpsters together for romantic dinners.

    I’m sorry, but Gunnar does have some redeeming qualities. He may be a bit of a brat, but I’ll bet he’s fun to hang out with, as opposed to last season’s Josh, who just seemed like a sourpussy. I haven’t really blamed Gunnar all that much for some of his whining.

    • http://twitter.com/TMamBo Therese Bohn

       Gunnar has been portrayed as a prissy jerk this season — it was nice to see that he does have compassion and heart. He’ll probably be in the top three.

  • Peeve

    I don’t think the designers with the bigger clients tend to do poorly because their clients are big, I think it’s because they freak out and throw an unflattering tent (usually black) on the woman instead of actually designing something flattering! Witness Gunnar’s dress–flattering, and she obviously felt like a million bucks in it. Ditto for the ‘Mom’ challenge when Uli designed a beautiful tunic for Kayne’s mom (I think it was Kayne’s mom). Then you look at the outfits Jeffrey did for Angela’s mom, Robert did for someone’s sister, Christian did for his little prom diva, and Ven did last night. Zero design effort.

    • http://twitter.com/TMamBo Therese Bohn

       Remember ‘Precious Moments’ last season (or was it the season before) when he complained that his client had breasts?  How dare she! Any designer  who whines about being outside of his or her comfort zone shouldn’t be here. That’s what much of the competition is about, after all.

  • lilibetp

    The skirt Ven made was actually pretty cute.  And once he got a decent belt, it looked even better.  But she needed a good blouse and some heels to really make it look better.

    That said, I’m a 5’4″ size 20 and I find nice classics from Lord & Taylor and occasionally at Macys.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PCARAOJSL553GBBPQSLRYD5REE L.

    The second Fabio’s client hit the runway I knew we had the winner.  Agree with everyone that the belt was wrong and also really, really, really wished the client had worn a bra. The low bust distracts from the gorgeousness of the dress.

  • isidore256

    Anyone else think Nathan was set up too? He was 2nd to last in the judges eyes last week, and he ends up with a Lil’ Kim wannabe who asks for a tight, tacky outfit with midriff cutouts for her “rapping career”? There’s no way he could please both the judges and his client, and he made the classic mistake of trying to please the client.

    • http://twitter.com/TMamBo Therese Bohn

       Could be…for all we know,  they were all set up (Melissa, the queen of black,  had to design pink and feminine?)  This is ‘reality’ TV after all, where you know for a fact that nothing is real.  But even if it was a set up, there is still no excuse for Ven’s whine-ery and his absolute disrespect for his client. Nathan was a sweetie, but that dress was awful.  I think Tim gave him good advice, but he didn’t really listen. Nathan took his client too seriously, and Ven didn’t take his client seriously at all.

      • MilaXX

         i think most if not all were set to play up against/for their strengths. it’s like Fabo’s client was so much like him that f he hadn’t one he would be gone because he couldn’t even design what should have been in his wheelhouse, Some were set up to force them out of their comfort zone

  • EEKstl

    I, too, flashed back to Jeffrey and Angela’s mom but somehow Ven was even worse.  Jeffrey was an asshole but somehow didn’t care.  Ven didn’t even realize that he was being an asshole.  That complete lack of affect is a bit unnerving, actually.  He’s like Ashe in “Alien.”  A robot on a mission.

    Congrats to Fabio – a very well-deserved win. That dress was really well done.

  • Jess5628

    I would pay money to see Stacey and Clinton judge this challenge. Can we start a petition??

    • meowing

      Would love to see S & C as judges, anytime, but not sure if it’s ever gonna happen–different networks & all.  That said, why not a REAL WOMAN plus size model (even if plus size models now start at size 8 or something ludicrous).  Would love to hear Ven go all negative to a plus size model.

  • GTrain

    I was so pissed about Ven’s attitude I forgot to say that I LOVED Fabio’s dress (as well as his own outfit on the runway) and I want it now.

  • Snailstsichr

     Oh wow – Michael Costello volunteered to make her a dress! How cool is that?

  • BrightsideSusan

    As soon as Ven opened his mouth I said “like you are such a perfect specimen yourself!”  If he had one of the short curvy girls would he have been happier?  The dress he made for Kenley made her look thick, but even that kind of look would have been more attractive than a high waisted, tight skirt  and a flutter sleeve top.
    As a plus size I can say that these designers who think that it is difficult to dress us are being being stubborn.  Go to the basics.  A nice A line dress, a fuller skirt with a jacket in the right proportions, .

  • BuffaloBarbara

    I really enjoyed the show last night, not least because the behavior of everyone else in the room was a counterpoint to how badly Ven was behaving.

    When Fabio said in the voice-over, as the almost always do, that he could see girls wanting that dress, I think it was the first time I responded, “Hell, yeah, and I’m one of ‘em!”

  • patticake1601

    Fabio’s dress was perfect but what really pissed me off and made me angry for the rest of the evening was his client saying that wearing a dress made her feel like a women and therefore weak (paraphrasing).  Are you freaking kidding me?  She irritated me no end.

    Ven is a dick period.

    • unbornfawn

      Me too! Women are strong and amazing. Who put that crap in her head?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI yahoo-FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI

        I may be really off here with this particular person, but if she’s Asian, she may have been raised to be a docile, lovely sweet person who will become a good wife.  This happens.  A few decades ago it was common.  Then you rebel and want to squelch anything that will associate you with that image of ideal womanhood.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tiyuju Yuju Ti

          I don’t think it has anything to do with her race. “Stafford wife” is an English term.

  • michelle shields

    Sorry but I hated the winning look. The chunky boots just made it worse. Loved Gunnars look though and thought he had it sewn up. ha! His model looked like she was having so much fun and that can make or break any look coming down the runway. No words for Ven. Being plus size, I took real offense to his stupidity. 

    • http://twitter.com/TMamBo Therese Bohn

       I didn’t love the winning look either, I did like the bodice and the way the fabric was pieced on the skirt, but I thought the fullness made her look hippy and the length cut right across  the top of her calves, making her legs look a little stumpy; the booties didn’t help  this illusion. Poor accessories too,  However, the client was very happy and I think that really helped Fabio get the win. Still waiting for Snape to get some love, although I liked his dress and styling, I thought that it cut a little tight across the hips.

      I was praying for Ven to be a second elimination, but oh, how the producers like to toy with us.  Ven’s attitude was inexcusable, and his client deserved to be treated with respect.   I hope the producers did something nice for her afterwards.

      • annaplurabelle

         I liked the design of Fabio’s dress but I agree that the fit was off for the client. Actually, the fit was off for just about all of the designs – and IMO, that’s one of the things that make a “regular” woman stand out – wearing clothes that fit really well. But I suppose the time restraints make perfect fitting designs really difficult.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

       Fabio’s model needed a bra, but the dress was perfect otherwise (except for the belt and the booties). I admired Gunnar’s attitude toward this challenge, but the dress itself left a lot to be desired. As you noted, the model sold that dress. I can’t believe it was in the top three. I would have put Sonjia’s dress in the top three before Gunnar’s dress, or even that forgettable little pink dress.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jacoryd JaCory Deon

    Ven’s attitude really was quite disgusting.  Imagine that: you have to design for someone over a size 4!  Girl you are not YSL yet so get over that.  (Nor are you petite either!)  Actually, though the judges didn’t read him on it (that we saw) it was more or less the same outfit he’s been sending out (pleated effect, fitted skirt, soft fabrics, etc.)…I wouldn’t of sent him home for it (he’s far from the worst on this cast left) but damn man, shut it.  It’s one thing when a smaller man is calling out a big girl, quite another when a big girl has the nerve to hate on another.

    Nathan, who’s likely nice enough, was just forgettable.  I feel like Alicia is next unless she pulls out something extraordinary.  And you know we’re in some toxic territory when Elena(!) comes off as a nice contestant.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FDQR3MXFKMHKQCSXT5J7HXSSIM jo

    Whatever happened to 2 day challenges?  Back in the early seasons, I remember them doing a lot more challenges where the designers had 2 days to complete their look.  On the rare occassion that the challenge was to be done in 1 day, it was cause for panic… so far this season, it’s been all 1 day challenges and I don’t think the designers really have a chance to produce good work.

    Loved Fabio’s dress.  Yes, the belt needs to go, but it was perfect for his girl.
    Nathan’s was unfortunate.  Never let the client fully direct the design.  Collaboration is key when you have to put your name on it and defend it.

    Ven is a jerk.  Possibly a sociopath.  He and Olivier can form a business that caters to size 0-4 women with no curves.  Yes, the producers manipulated the client/designer matches.  So what?  It’s a reality game show.  It’s all about producer manipulation and how the designer reacts.  Ven reacted like an a-hole.

    • Stubenville

      One day challenges equal fewer (discounted for sure) hotel nights at the Atlas, lower meal costs (the designers meals are catered) and lower production crew costs (I assume at least some of the film crew are freelancers, if not all.) 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PVIY3NBCZJAJNFWDBCWG2DMKL4 Jen R

    I love how Gunnar said that half of America is plus-sized, or something like that. I wish Ven had heard him – he should have said it louder.

    Two things, though:
    1) A size 10/12 (which was her size, according to her tweets) is NOT plus-sized.
    2) Women who aren’t model-sized actually do follow fashion – mostly because they desperately want to avoid those tents that designers like Ven want them to wear.

    • MilaXX

       This is why I love the world of blogs. I mentioned last night  a few of the plus size bloggers I follow. They are big, fashionable women who inspired me every day. You can google them Gabifresh, Garner style and Marie Denee. These are just a few of the ones I follow, but these ladies shut it down on the regular.

  • EverybodysStarling

    In one of his confessions VenBot talks about how you can’t use specific techniques on larger women. Yeah, too bad, not another boringly draped unflattering Origami-Dress. 

    • MilaXX

       what and idiot. Of course you can.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        I never understand why these designers don’t take advantage of the opportunities their individual client gives them.  For instance, Terri was not a tiny framed woman — not because she was overweight or plus-sized, but her bone structure appeared to be one that was never going to go down to a 2/4, and she looked quite tall.  (Could be wrong, TV can be deceiving) 

        I have a friend who is built very much like Terri, and there are things I can do for her that I could never do for a sample size.  One of the best parts is the fabric I can use on her.  Being 5’4″ myself, there are a lot of prints that simply don’t work for me due to the scale of the print — I can use them on her.  She also has great long legs that I will never have in a million years.  There are real advantages to a body like Terri’s when put in capable hands.

    • Sweetbetty

       But any designer worth his salt should be able to adapt any technique that can be used on a size 00 dress to a  size 24 dress.  Just one more of his whines that don’t hold water.

  • kikisayshi

    I have several tidbits that are gnawing at me from this show.

    First, I love the “Real Woman” challenges because they show the designers’ true skills and true colors (as evidenced last night). I was pleasantly surprised to see that all but one of the designers were actually excited and looked to this as a real challenge for them.

    Second, I have no doubt that the “random” selection of clients was rigged. But that is no excuse for a designer with as many awards and titles as Ven claims to have. He sounded like one of my children, “She got a thinner model. That’s not FAIR!” I wanted to put his ass in time out. If anything, he should use his skills and talent to create something to make this woman feel beautiful. I don’t think he should have gone home, but I’m glad they made him sweat. And now all the designers know who to look out for.

    Lastly, Fabio’s dress looks 10 times better in these still shots than it did on the show (granted I had to watch on my laptop). He totally deserved this win.

    Ok, stepping down now…

    • MilaXX

       and in all honesty Ven’s model was maybe a hair bigger than Gunnar’s.

  • http://profiles.google.com/bratling2 Laura Davies

    Lane Bryant’s got better clothes than that.  One of these days, I’d like to see ‘em do a handicapped challenge where the clothing has to accommodate someone who has physical difficulties and thus special needs in clothing.

    Then again, I’d like to see Stacey and Clinton dress someone like that, too.  And see them appear as guest judges on  PR. 

    • http://twitter.com/YellowDogJen Jennie Moore

       Stacy and Clinton have dressed women with physical difficulties. They did a show pretty recently where the contributor was a wheelchair athlete and could only walk with braces and crutches.She was so pretty after the makeover!

       I love WNTW. Stacey and Clinton are terrific. It’s the only good show on TLC.

      • MilaXX

         OMG That was one I actually cried at! I love that show. I love how Stacy, Clinton, Carmindy and Ted all seem to really want to make these women feel beautiful. Ted & Carmindy seem to compliment each other work in ways that Carmindy and Nick never did.

  • Terrie_S

     I always joke that if I were to rename my dog, I would call him Hoover, ’cause he eats so fast. I turn around and he’s all “Look, there’s not food in  my bowl. Clearly, you’re not feeding me. Fix this.”

  • joe_tey83

    Assuming it’s a setup, what is it even setting up for anyway? Anyone could have looked at VenDroid and thought he would be good at designing for “Real Woman” considering his size. And, really, whose fault is it that he can’t? What an ass.

    Besides besides besides, isn’t this EXACTLY the thing you can totally prepare for before going into the competition? You may not be able to practice sewing and working with every single conventional material there is, but you can absolutely plan what to design for someone who is not model size and work out the kinks. WTF?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1391013883 Carla Perry Paisley

    I rehearsed witty one-liners in defense of Ven’s client from my treadmill last night. Hear that, Venny-the-Pooh? From the TREADMILL. Step onto one for a time before you go bashing a woman’s weight and size.
    On another note, exposed zippers are making this mama’s eyes twitch. Is it me, or do I need to kick my style-o-meter up a notch (or several). I think that at 38, I am too old to like exposed zippers. They would probably snag fine furniture. And ruin fine undergarments…..

  • jetpackdino

    If it was a set-up, Ven let the producers play him like a fiddle.   Not too bright.

    • DeborahJozayt

      You got that right!

    • MilaXX

       I think the set up as to push him out of his comfort zone.  I think each designer was pair according to whatever “push” the judges felt they needed. If Ven had rose to met the challenge I could see him winning cause the judges love him and it would have shown flexibility on his part.  Saying it now, Ven ain’t winning, in fact I call him dead man walking . If he makes one fugly dress he’s out.

  • Stacey DuFord

    Perhaps the “randomness” used to assign victims… I mean makeover candidates to designers was their similarity to the designer.  Thus it becomes an even deeper challenge, and Ven has proved that he clearly hates himself.

  • mhleta

    EXCELLENT POINT about having Clinton Kelly and Stacey London on this particular show. They are the perfect judges for this challenge. Different networks, so it will never happen, right?

    • MilaXX

       I don’t see why not. If they can have every lady celebs with a show or movie to pimp on here, why not Stacy & Clinton?

      • Lisa

        Exactly.  At least with Clinton & Stacy, for this challenge, it would have made perfect sense to have them guest judge.  This is what they do.

  • Nels Highberg

    Another reason I was suspicious of how the put clients and designers together: did anyone else notice that Alicia got someone who wanted to go extremely feminine, and didn’t that feel like a test for her?

    • unbornfawn

      Yup. And Elaina got someone who loved color. 

    • MilaXX

       But that’s the point of these type of challenges and the teams challenges. Making the dress is only half the battle, the other half is working within the parameters of the challenge and clearly these pairings were designed to shake up the designers. That still doesn’t excuse his behavior either.

      • Susan Crawford

        Agree with Nels that the so-called random put-togethers seemed calculated to puch designers out of their comfort zones in many instances (Not so much with Fabio and Ko-Rely who I could see as besties, to be frank.) And there is nothing wrong with that. As MilaXX aptly noted, the point is only partly a design challenge, and mostly a people-skill and management challenge.

        Maybe it would have been more accurate had Tim said, “Designers, we paired you off with clients whom we felt would challenge your design skills, and whose needs may be quite different from your usual aesthetic. You will be working to incorporate your own skills and design ethos into a garment that will also reflect your client’s needs.”  

        (And Ven would still have found something to bitch about, I’m sure. Sigh.)

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

           Yeah, but telling them would change the challenge — everyone would know what the judges were looking for.

  • mhleta

    Orange belt, red purse, brown shit-kickers, really bad on Fab’s girl. I also would like to see that dress about 6 inches shorter on her. Otherwise, fantastic.

  • Stubenville

    It finally clicked – the reason everything feels so stale on Project Runway is because B&M hasn’t come up with anything new. They are just recycling minor variations on old shows. The show needs some different  challenges.

    In less than a minute I thought of “Reinvent the leather jacket for 2050″, “Design uniforms for Virgin Galactic” (the budding space travel firm), and “Design a gown for royalty” where the garment has to be very demure. 

    • Susan Crawford

      Agree! B&M consistently fall back on prior challenges with VERY little in the way of updating or new ideas. I LOVE your idea of designing for royalty. And why not a new, more fashionable take on nurse’s uniforms where functionality and durability are paramount? (And the models could be actual “real woman” nurses.) How about working with paper for the unconventional materials challenge with the great Isabel de Borchgrave as a judge? How about a challenge where EVERY designer gets exactly the same materials/trims, etc.?

      And honestly, how about returning to at least ONE two-day challenge per season? I understand that the more pressured and exhausted the designers are, the better B&M  likes it, since it produces lovely howling marmoset moments. But there’s always a chance in a two-day challenge for St. Tim of Gunn to appear in a roseate cloud and announce “Designers, I have some news. There’s going to be a little twist, and you will also be designing a SECOND look . . . ” I used to love those moments in the olden days!

      Change it up and make it work, Bunim/Murray!

  • Catiline

    Argh, disqus error

  • ASK26

     I am finally going to get to see the show on Demand.   At the opening they showed Ven’s outfit from last week,  DUDE you could have just made something like that top and skirt .  Not original, not perfect but instead of the front panel of the skirt being cut 16 inches, you cut it at 20 inches (or what ever the heck the would have been.       Damn why is that SO hard?

  • http://twitter.com/sprigged Sprigged

    Michael Costello offered last night via twitter to make her a dress. Very nice of him.

    • Lisa

      Aww, sweet.

    • http://www.fatladysings.us/ TFLS

      Michael Costello is one of the nicest PR alums.  I hope he posts pics of her in the dress when it’s finished!

  • http://twitter.com/TMamBo Therese Bohn

    I’m also really getting tired of all these exposed industry zippers! Sadly enough, this trend will probably trickle down to us commons who shop at the mall.  I’ll be avoiding it. 

    • MilaXX

       Already has. Saw a few folks out today with exposed zipper dresses.

    • shalter

      what? this has been a mall trend since, like, 2009.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZBD3S3SVIIBJ46VSFEYC2QUVY Bitter

       ”They” can’t abuse us like that unless we allow them to do so. I refuse to ever wear a garment with an exposed metal zipper.

      I also refuse to wear a bootie with a dress or a skirt. They make your ankles look thick and your legs look short.

      • Sweetbetty

         Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I’ve always hated that look, even on the most svelte model or celebrity.  Can never understand the praise for it.

  • Jane_Lane

    So let me make sure I understand this. We’re ditching the sweet guy who, while he made a horrible dress, tried to listen to and accommodate his client and keeping a guy who is a literal bag of dicks, who also made a horrible dress, and treated his client like trash because he doesn’t want women who aren’t a size zero wearing his clothes?

    • MilaXX

       Yup. As mentioned the judges claim they judge each challenge individually, but at times like this it’s easy to see they are taking the designers entire body of work into account.

    • Lisa

      Yup, that’s about the size of it, no pun intended.  And I really don’t get that – not that PR has made sense a lot of the time.  Both dresses were awful – but at least Nathan’s client was happy with her dress, and happy with how she was treated.  I know that really, REALLY, the judges do judge the whole body of work, and that it’s not REALLY “one day you’re in, the next you’re out”.  But if there had to be a “shocking elimination” that they love so much on reality TV, then I truly think it should have been Ven.  His client was miserable, mistreated, he even made her friend cry, and the outfit was awful.  He absolutely should have gone instead of Nathan.

  • MaryMitch

    Next week, Ven should have to design a dress for that bossy lady on “Dance Moms”. Then we won’t need to worry about him any more; he’d be a greasy spot on the workroom floor when she gets finished with him.

  • ASK26

    Hmm, finally watched the entire show. I don’t excuse Ven totally, but I do agree with what TLO wrote.

    Also he does somewhat remind me of that friend of mine I’ve posted about before – she is from Russian and often says inappropriate things’ (and another co-worker from Russian was the same way – I don’t know if it is cultural or coincidence, but one of my landlords acted similarly).  We say it is like she has NO FILTER.   She doesn’t seem to either understand or care about HOW she says something; just whether she THINKS what she said was true.     (she does have redeeming qualities but geez there are times she makes it hard.)

    I call her “sunshine”  and some of her other friends started to as well – she does not seem to appreciate the irony.   

    Ven seemed to remind me of her affect

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI yahoo-FBVC5LBEOWEHBYYCH3A2IZGZHI

      Elena, from the former USSR, was like that last week.  

      • http://www.facebook.com/tiyuju Yuju Ti

        I used to work with a bunch of Russians. They are blunt, but you can tell they are not trying to attack you, it’s just the way they talk.And you can be blunt to them too! I ended up enjoying talking to them, because you can say what you really think and you don’t have to sugarcoat anything. But my Russian colleagues all have sympathy and they don’t swear. So neither Ven nor Elena remind me of them.

  • MilaXX

    With the nominated by a friend aspect this was the perfect challenge to have Clinton & Stacy on judges. In fact, as an added bonus/annoyance to the designers let them do the walk through with Tim. If we have to sit through dozens of lady celebs whose only contribution is “I’d wear that”, lets have someone who can bring some sanity to the “real woman” challenge.  I LOVED Fabio’s dress not only because you could easily see it was his aesthetic. I even liked the styling because it wasn’t fashion-y but it was very real life. I could imagine that woman walking down a street dressed liked that.

    Last night I tried to defend Nathan’s  dress, but, yeah that was just bad.

    I think I’ve run out of adjectives to describe. Yeas he proclaimed he was set up, but he did nothing to change that. Hello? Game show, of course they are going to throw something at you to try and take you out your comfort zone. What a moron.

    Just a thought, wasn’t someone supposedly asked to leave becauseof mental health issues? The way Ven so vehemently attempted to defend himself on twitter last night by proclaiming he was set up makes me wonder.

    • Lisa

      Hmmm… is that coming up, the person who was asked to leave for mental health issues?  Or was it one of the ones who quit?  I do remember hearing something about that, but wasn’t sure if that person was already in the mix or had been asked to leave pre-show.

      • MilaXX

        I can’t recall. I have to go back an read the original post.

  • http://twitter.com/sprigged Sprigged

    Me three. I love wearing dresses and being feminine. And I am not weak by any means.

    • Lisa

      I know!  She struck me as one of these uber-serious artsy types who sees some things in a complete 180 degree view in the hopes that the world will see what a special snowflake she is.  On what planet does your femininity make you weak?  For that matter, she’s saying that being a woman in general is a weakness and a disadvantage, which I frankly take offense to.  Does she honestly think that dressing down like a sloppy lumberjack makes people go, “Oh, wow!  She must really be a strong woman, because she’s dressed like a boy!”

  • Lisa

    Ven can stuff it with his, “Wahh waaah whaaa, I was set up” bullshit.  So what if he was set up?  It’s his opportunity to show that he can design for anyone and make his client happy – to make it about the client, not about him!  Jerkoff!   And he’s full of crap, acting like that if you have a big girl, you can’t win – Gunnar’s girl was in the top three, and Nathan was eliminated after working with one of the skinnier girls.  Ven’s a bastard-coated bastard with bastard filling.

  • lisaepc

    Was it just me or was anyone else waiting for the Michael Kors to hand over a gift card to his shop to Ven’s model and gal pal?

    • Sweetbetty

       If he didn’t at the time, I hope that now after the airing of the show that he and others involved have showered them with all sorts of gifts to make up for her public humiliation.

  • Rebecca J.

    Loved when Kors, was it?…. called a slut (Nathan’s client) a slut (Nathan’s client).  

    I wanted to punch Ko-Rely “my femininity makes me weak” right in her throat.  What she likes to call edgy, I just call snot-nosed bitch.

  • DCSheehan

    It’s so funny to see people attacking Ven by saying ‘you’re fat yourself, asshole’. Ironic much?

    This whole episode stunk. It wasn’t random and Ven should’ve been smart enough to rise above, as TLo note. Everyone has made Ven the demon here but what sociopath sends a rather fragile, passive client to the one person in the room who cannot handle them? Shame on the producers for treating that poor woman like that. I’m not excusing Ven at all, he was a dick. But he wasn’t the only dick or necessarily the biggest dick. Tootie equally disrespected her client by doing her usual twisty knot shit and ignoring the fact that she turned a sexy young woman into a squat hooker. Is being blind or rude worse when the end result is the same?

    Apart from Ropes’ winning dress I thought nothing else worked this week. Some dreadful stuff. And some reality show bs righteousness from a panel of judges that have made lots of money in an industry that makes a point of sidelining ‘real women’. You all deserved that slap you gave Ven.

  • laylagalise

    You know, I keep waiting for PR to do an episode with Plus Size Models and force all of the designers to adapt, but they never do.

    • MilaXX

      I both like and fear an ep like that

    • DeborahJozayt

      I would love it if they did plus sized models! Then no one could bitch because they’re not dealing with people who wouldn’t know how to showcase your garment.  It really is all on you at that point. And nowadays, the models don’t switch up, so each designer would learn to work around their model’s shape, and would help us who are differently shaped see what works and what doesn’t.

  • quiltrx

    I really like the winning dress–it’s smart and sharp (and didn’t need that belt).

    I like the pleating on the losing dress…if rendered in a different fabric, on a different dress.  This looks tortured and a little slutty.

  • Judih1

    I love the comment about Ven being Fatty Arbuckle. I might add a mean-spirited Fatty Arbuckle at that. I wish his client had chosen to be a no-show on the runway and that this would have resulted in his AUF’ing. What a jerk!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1241487378 Lauren Lynch Fox

    How about, if your client is crying, something is WRONG!

  • Srw27


    shrieking marmosets” is my new band name.  And my bet is that Ven is AT LEAST a size 14/16 in women’s clothing #jackass

    • MilaXX

      As a plus size gal, i would say Ven likely hits the 18- 20 range.

  • rainwood1

    Late to the party as always, but I agree with everything you said, T Lo.  Ven was venal, but this really did have the producers’ fingerprints all over it.  †hat plus the sledgehammer subtlety of the product placement which seems to get more brazen every season.  

    I haven’t read everyone’s comments yet, but the one thing I’d add is that Dmitry was not very polite in calling his client plain looking (another pot calling the kettle situation).  He didn’t say it to her face but he did say it to the camera for viewing by a national television audience.  I’d be pissed if I was her.  It was rude and uncalled for but it was also totally undeserved.  His client was cute as a button.  He tried to say it was a compliment (something in the blank slate category) but calling someone plain is never a compliment.    

    • Sweetbetty

       If you do read all the comments you’ll see that most give him a pass for the “plain” remark due to English not being his first language.  Sort of like the one-way-monkey mix-up.

  • NotTheTodd

    Christ, even my straight male coworkers ask “have you lost weight” versus being like “oh shit, you can wear that shirt now”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_H3XBSNN3JLZWI4R2EPZ2BQYT5U Suzanne S

    His tweets make me hate him all over again. And I wonder if all his “Hashtag Team Ven” prefaces will count towards “Fan Favorite”. When he acted like “40 = old” I cackled-he’s the one (supposedly) in his late 20s and looks over 40.  Maybe this hit a nerve with me, size 8 now, but used to be size 16W. But I think even if I weren’t bigger before I would find his behaviour reprehensible and inexcusable. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_H3XBSNN3JLZWI4R2EPZ2BQYT5U Suzanne S

      I’ve only read the first 4 pages, but maybe someone said this before. When folks here were discussing the million more diplomatic ways that the “Belt issue” could have been dealt with, a full-blown scenario popped in my head of how Austin S. would have handled that situation. His actions always seemed the epitome of manners, class, and diplomacy. Ven, I hope you’ve torched your career, your designs weren’t much (that I’ve seen) to begin with. Can’t wait to read Laura B and Bert’s blogs on the episode, especially. 

  • ccm800

    I don’t suspect rigging. I really don’t. I suspect time constraint and an editorial decision to cut out the selection process for more interesting viewing and it was a good choice. Further I felt they were calling out HIS use of the term “real woman.” This one has a diagnosis. Something ain’t right with played our oragami Ven. I must say though. I felt kinda like I was watching OLD timey Project Runway. It felt VERY about the work and not so much about the drama. I really enjoyed this episode.

  • Lisa

    WHEN is Laura Bennett gonna weigh in on this episode?  She’ll rip Ven a new one – I’m waiting for her to blog.  

  • KathKo

    Well, I’m ready to have people with pitch and forks chase after me, this week, because, while I won’t defend Ven’s sylliness, I get where he’s coming from.
    In a tailoring and designig challenge, having a normal or plus sized client is an hindrance. So yes, it’s unfair, way more than having a limp and moody model opposed to a fierce, professional model. I get how it would have been frustrating but the point of the client challenge is dealing with realness !
    I think Ven has almost the same problem as last year’s Olivier : he’s an artist and he doesn’t design for real people. He designs intricate and overdesigned chiffons dresses that has nothing to do with real people. It’s the same than last weak challenge : real work clothes vs idealized, flowy working girl directly extracted from a TV show.
    So, I guess that the problem was not that that girl is plus sized, not really. I don’t think Ven does see himself thin or anything. Ven’s problem is that he doesn’t know how to make clothes for real people, he doesn’t know how to deal with real people.
    The other designers were rightfully schocked by how he dealt with that girl. And his tweets about her being negative and not inspiring from the get go ? Hello : CLIENT !!!
    Ven, you’re allowed to be frustrated and to have your opinions, but what were you thinking ? barfing your complaints on screen, and directly at your client ? The belt’s not fitting, don’t use one ! And certainly don’t tell her you’ll get her a bigger one ! No woman wants her tailor to tell her she’s fat. She wants to hear that she’s perfect and that HIS job is to keep that that way.

    • MilaXX

      But he was the only one with a plus size model. Gunnar has model of similar size. I also think the use of the word hindrance in this instance is a bit insulting. There are challenges with designing for anyone who is not a model. Ven wasn’t that handicapped in this instance. His handicap was the prejudice in his model that he could not use his usual folding techniques on anyone who didn’t qualify as a human hanger.

      • Nels Highberg

        He was the only one with a plus-size model?  Gunnar had a model of similar size?  What?

        • KathKo

           I think except for Alicia’s, all the clients were at least size 14.
          So I wouldn’t call them plus sized.
          But I might be wrong, I always heard that TV make you look bigger. One designer on season one mentioned that viewers thought she was plus sized while she wasn’t and stressed that two other female contestants who wer eslim were actually really tiny and thin.
          So I don’t make assumption anymore.
          As a matter of fact, when I look at me in the mirror I found myself quite nicely fitted but I’m horrified every time I see a picture of me.

          • Nels Highberg

            I was’t commenting on any models size.  I was commenting on the statement that only Ven had a plus-sized model followed by the sentence that Gunnar had one, too.  I don’t get the logic of those two sentences.

        • MilaXX

          Yep, take a look at the before shots, Gunnar’s model was maybe a hair thinner.

          • Nels Highberg

            If Gunnar’s model was a hair thinner, then why are you saying Ven was the only one with a plus-sized model?  

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            Pretty sure that’s a typo and she meant to say Ven WASN’T the only one with a plus-sized model.

          • Nels Highberg

            Ah, got it.

          • MilaXX

            typos, I meant to typo wasn’t

      • KathKo

         I didn’t intend to insult plus sized people, sorry if you took it that way.
        But I still think that’s Ven saw the fact that he had a plus sized client as a handicap. you can see he was absolutely pissed at Alicia for having a thin client and she didn’t have anything to do about the pairing !
        when you think about every real people challenge in PR, in every single one the contestants got to choose their client (and I cringed every time because the last to be picked was always the largest person. it’s like dodgeball in High School all over again). Or at least the pairing process was shown (usually Heidi or Tim picking up button).
        Not this time, though, and Ven, being the competitive freak he is, would obviously pick the thinnest client the first chance he had. But he couldn’t, so he went on and on about how unfair everything was instead of doing what he could to make the situation work for him.
        Gunnar also had a plus sized client and a mature one at that, and he was absolutely charming about it.
        He did ewactly what a designer is supposed to do with his client : make her feel beautifull and worthy and perfect.
        His dress was still a hot mess, but her client was in love with it and with him. In my point of view, job well down.
        The difference between the two of them is that Gunnar not only has experience with real clients but has a knack with them. You can tell that’s the part he like about his job. He likes to meet real women and he likes to make clothes for them.
        Ven only knows mannequin forms and size 0 models. And it’s no excuse for the way he treated his client, talked to her or talked about her.
        But I still get why he was pissed and why he would rant on about her size because it’s the only thing he could think of. Still, I don’t agree with his way of dealing with the situation.
        I don’t get how those type of designers even think of succeed in the fashion world. the whole point of designing clothes is for women or men to actually wear them. You can do high fashion for the love of it but does it feed you ? Does it sale ? No, you have to make clothes for real people.

        And I agree with you about his little bag of tricks. The rose pattern got old 2 episodes ago.

        • MilaXX

          Oh I completely agree. Ven’s attitude was his biggest handicap.

  • DeTrop

    Apropos of nothing, I just want to say that these ‘real women challenges’ have given me a respect for the professional runway model.   With few exceptions, they walk and do not distract the viewers eyes from the clothes.  They make it look easy which I’m sure it’s not.

    Back in the day, a few of my friends and I tried to emulate a runway walk, and succeeded in looking like a broken train limping into the station.  Taint easy.

  • l_c_ann

    Over on Blogging Project Runway, Laura K interviewed Nathan.  It’s a good read about his take on different sized women (He likes us.)  Something to contemplate is that he, Ven, AND Kooan were in the same class at FIT.

  • http://twitter.com/calkuhn Cal Kuhn

    Fabio Costa is so sweet. But I also find him really sexy in that dirty-hipster kind of way.

  • Clacey

    I don’t think that Ven suffers from Asperger’s or autism or any kind of -ism except egotistic assholism. Yes, he was set up. So were a number of other designers. There was nothing at all “random” about the assignments and I’m sure the B-M monkeys worked their little butts off finding the “right” clients to pair with the designers for good or bad. Alicia does the tomboy thing and she got the girly girl. Colorphobe Elena got the client who loves color. Sonjia’s aesthetic works best on tall, slender types and she got the short jock chick. Gunnar got the type of client he probably works with at home. Nathan has a music/performing degree. He got the singer which could have worked in his favor but didn’t. Dmitry got the Plain Jane with potential and that worked out for him. Fabio is edgy and got the edgy girl. Melissa had immunity so it didn’t matter who she got. Which boils down to half the designers getting clients who set them up to succeed, and half getting clients who set them up to fail. It didn’t quite pan out that way, but I’m sure that was the thinking behind the assignments. 

  • DeborahJozayt

    I also thought about previous episodes where there were heavier men as part of the real people challenge, and there wasn’t any bitching whatsoever with a male’s size or proportions. Granted, the designers got to pick the guys in the episode I’m thinking of, but no one complained when it came to guys. I could be thinking wrong. Not sure.

    • Montavilla

      In Season 9, Olivier complained a lot about having to work with a larger man during the rockstar makeover challenge.  Of course, he has a softer voice, so it was slightly less noticeable.  And he was auf’ed for it.

      I haven’t watched every season, but after two seasons of watching larger clients get humiliated, I’m beginning to wonder why anyone over a size 6 would agree to come on the show in the first place.  It’s dramatic and instructive for us to see what assholes some designers can be (and well as seeing what sweethearts others can be), but is it really worth the emotional toll it takes on the unfortunate clients?  

  • Clacey

    ETA – I forgot about Christopher, but I’d put him in the same boat as Gunnar: A client like one he probably works with already, so the results could go either way.

  • Clacey

    I think Ven was pissed off because because he couldn’t see a way do his usual fabrigami (TM Laura Bennett) on his client.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Barbara-Fox/542089415 Barbara Fox

    I will now adopt ‘shrieking marmoset’ as my newest pet phrase and use it wherever suitable. Thanks, guys!

  • sononagal

    OK – so Ven made some lovely clothes on prior episodes, has talent, and adds to the “drama” a reality show like this really looks for more than talent.  That’s why they kept him and will continue to do so almost no matter what.

    But really people, they should have said Aufwiedersehn to Ven (and given him the address of a diet specialist who could work on slimming down his over-sized and over-fed ego).   

    Not only was the dress Ven designed horrible, but anyone who takes a makeover challenge, treats the client the way he did, and makes the poor woman feel WORSE about herself has to be given a message he  – and everyone else like him – will never forget. 

    Ven dished out emotional abuse and bullied his client.  It should have been goodbye – pure and simple. 

  • http://twitter.com/Blythington_III Blythe Irish

    Lane Bryant has better clothes than what Ven made

  • BelleBook

    I think the right people won and were sent packing.  Fabio might have gotten a bit lucky, but he took advantage of his good fortune and he was able to be true to himself, satisfy his client *and* create a garment that pleased the judges, which is no easy task (as the history of this type of challenge shows).  Nathan *did* manage to please his client, but that’s about it as far as doing well with the challenge.  And although I would have *loved* to have seen Ven being sent packing before Nathan, I knew that wasn’t going to hapen because Ven had done better in challenges than Nathan and at this point they’re judging by overall body of work.

  • Scott

    I think the “or more” threat was just intended to put the fear-of-god into Ven. The judges gave him a finger-wagging an ep or two ago and he didn’t get it so they’re trying again. I just hope that Tim takes him aside for a moment and tells him that was a shot across his bow and he’d better get it together.

    His competitiveness makes the bad things he has to say even worse- he’s got no cute stories about what Fabio did at lunch or what someone said in the workroom, so literally all he’s got to talk about is “I’m awesome” and “${other_designer} sucks”.

  • Tremaine Wheaton

    The gist is that Ven needed a challenge. He was a forerunner, He proved he could construct very easily, SO why not give him a challenge! He is such a big head ass and honestly a bit of a pig.

  • fashionzombie

    Next week: Dmitry wins, Alicia goes home. Because both are due.

  • Clacey

    If there had been a bottom four, Alicia definitely deserved to be in it. I give her credit for stepping out of her tomboy box and trying to give the client what she wanted, but that was not a good dress, even taking the time constraints into consideration. 

  • fashionzombie

    Also, isn’t this comment from the woman who, a few weeks ago, wore a shiny dress so tight that her every dent and line was highlighted?

    http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/07/pr-judging-the-judges-6.html

    edit: Argh — stupid disqus. “This comment” from Heidi being “hoochie mama.”

  • kaydenpat

    Ven could have been upset about the size of his client, but kept that to himself (although in my opinion, she really wasn’t all that big).  He doesn’t seem to know when to shut up.  Even at the very end of the show, he made some insane comment about not having the worst design and that he shouldn’t have been the last one on the stage.  Who says that out loud — and especially in front of the other designers?

  • Clacey

    Hmmm…cheap-looking, shiny, illusion fabric panels on the sides, and so tight you can practically see the “fish whistle”… Sounds an awful lot like the dress that got Nathan auf’ed.

    • fashionzombie

      Thanks! Anna May Wong can’t believe Heidi’s hypocrisy.

      • Clacey

        I can tell. Her expression seems to say “Oh, give me a break.” 

  • HelenNPN

    L&T have gone to CAPS.  Couldn’t be more appropriate for this shakedown or suit my red wine mood better.

  • alula_auburn

    OMG, I can’t believe this article where Terri says Ven wouldn’t even pick out her damn shoes.

    http://theclicker.today.com/_news/2012/08/27/13509035-project-runways-real-size-model-show-was-adult-bullying-at-its-best#.UDwBOdXeb6E.twitter

    “In fact, Herlihy said, she and her friend Theo Thomas (the pal who brought her on the show) had to go rummaging in “Runway’s” accessories bins themselves because Budhu, who was supposed to figure out her look from head-to-toe as part of the challenge, was going to send her down the runway for judging without any accessories. “My friend found the shoes. My friend found the belt. My friend did it all,” she said. “She laid into him, but they didn’t show that.”"

  • elikit

    Set up? Of course! It’s reality tv. If anything, I think the judges and producers were backstage cackling about how yet another origami flower bullshit thingo wouldn’t work on a bigger woman, and wanting to see if he had anything else in him.

    Clearly, he didn’t.

    He just feels entitled to a model-like woman because he is an entitled prick. If you can only design for one body type, you are a shitty designer. Full stop.

    I also thought it was hilarious how the fattest guy on PR is kvetching about having the fattest woman. Does this mean that as a designer, he is incapable of designing clothing for himself? If so, that is beyond pathetic.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U6HG7ZMBO4D772LQQ52GI6UHUY ElsaRox!

     Your last paragraph is exactly what I think too. Designers on past seasons (for the Real Women Challenge) will always pick the thinnest ladies if they get to choose. Ok, yeah, that makes sense; it’s what they’re used to. But this is the first time I’ve seen a designer voice his bitterness SO LOUDLY & repeatedly. Not to defend Jeffrey when he had Angela’s mom, (what a JERK!!) but I assumed that was mostly cuz he hated Angela & didn’t trust her mother either-slightly more understandable. Ven, worse than anyone else, wasn’t interested in trying at ALL. It was like he vomited all his hatred onto the poor model. & that’s what the end result looked like.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C7OZ3ZSSGA7EIVNG3Q5R5WP2LI bleave

    I have been cutting Ven some slack because though skilled he is severely lacking in people skills. He sounds arrogant as hell in the talking head shots, but he comes across as almost a nervous child  when the final judgement comes down. He is just a bit segmented as a personality. 

    I cannot forgive or gloss over his treatment of his semi plus size client though (and there is no way that it was random, I give him that – but he is supposed to rise to the challenge) As you said my immediate response to the black s slimming thang is – wow you wear a lot of black Ven. Like, ALL the time. Maybe its fat hate from a fellow fattie…but no, that is just not right. I for once agreed with Elena - I lost a lot of respect for him. 

    He need s a course in people skills. I know the fashion world thinks exactly the way he was speaking – do not tell me Kors doesn’t think the same way…but you keep it to yourself. We all know most fashion does not touch size 14 and that their idea of a 12 fits an 8. (I have an Anna Sui dress that proves this – and Anna is kinda chubby herself)  But observe the niceties and don’t be a dick to the woman standing in front of you. 

  • Sandra Bernhard

    Big Shocker – Ven was not the only one stuck with a “big” model. Gunnar also had a big model, who was also older looking and out of shape. But he DIDN’T make a big deal about it, and comment on her fatness every 5 seconds, and claim that it was a “setup” and that people were out to get him and how unfair it was.

    Secondly, it doesn’t matter how skinny or fat the model is, it’s their personality that has more to do with it. If you are stuck with a client/model that is picky, finicky, bitchy, control-freak, etc, that is far worse than someone who is simply “fat”. It’s not as though the woman he had was a bitch or control freak, or insisted things be her way. So, enough said. He had no excuse. The only thing “set up” was Ven showed the world what a cunt he is. He was setup, just like all the other contestants were.

    To entertain the idea that it was a “setup” would mean the producers of the show knew he hated fat women and was going to bad-mouth them in front of everyone. Even if he was setup, all he had to do was shut his mouth, and grin and bare it, but he didn’t. I love how he’s trying to blame the show for what was coming out of his cakehole.

  • ransue

    I know this is way after the fact.  Sorry all!  But I had strong feelings about this one.  Because its not just that a contestant with a bigger client that often goes home.  Its that the skinniest client’s contestant always wins.  Regardless of how much better the outfit or how pleased bigger client may be, the skinniest is always the winner.  Because the designers are already used to designing for the skinny, that’s pretty lame.  Particularly since most designers have to be able to design for almost any size, else how would they ever become successful?    And they always have a contestant who is nasty to the non model skinny client.  Ven was cruel.  He tried to shame that girl on national tv.  And honey, he is packing a hell of a lot of blubber to be making comments about anyone else.  Before that show I was thinking he was pretty alright.  Now I think he can fold one of those origami roses and,well, you get the point.. >:)