Mad Men: Dark Shadows

Posted on May 14, 2012

We’re thinking that, since the “standing up and announcing tonight’s theme” schtick is by far the worst development in the writing for Mad Men this season (but to be fair, it’s the only thing worth complaining about), it might be more truthful and a little more entertaining if they were even more obvious about it. Like, say, they could rapidly zoom in on a character’s face and flip on dramatic underlighting just as the character is about to utter some essential truth. And if that character is Roger, then just have him look in the camera, wink, and give finger guns. Might as well own it and make it fun, we say. Because having Betty step up to the mike and somewhat awkwardly intone, “I’m thankful that I have everything I want — and that no one else has anything better,” or having Roger blurt out “It’s every man for himself!” to Peggy just isn’t cutting it anymore. The announcement of themes has gotten so obvious and anvil-heavy, the only way to make them entertaining again is to add bells and whistles. Literally. When Henry whines to Betty about “backing the wrong horse,” maybe they could flash the words “THIS IS REMINDING ME OF MY EX-HUSBAND RIGHT NOW” over Betty’s face. Or perhaps they could give her a thought balloon.

We almost feel a little guilty complaining about a writing trope on Mad Men, since it’s easily one of, if not the, best-written shows on television. It feels nit-picky, given the subtle, layered writing they offer up to us each week. But this tendency to be so obvious in the writing is a betrayal of that very subtlety they try so hard to maintain and it’s been the one notable flaw of this season. The reason we keep mentioning it is because it seems to be getting worse with each episode. We posited a few weeks back that all the obviousness and overtness in the dialogue was somehow reflective of the times and that people were being forced to utter truths in a time of confusion and turmoil. Now, we’re not quite so sure. It wasn’t Vietnam or race riots that made Betty give her little prayer of thanks and jealousy; it was writing that didn’t quite trust that it was being clear enough for the audience.

And since we’re starting this review off with the rare act of complaining about the show, we might as well take things a step further and state that the handling of Betty has become increasingly problematic the longer she’s divorced from Don. Granted, January Jones’ real-life pregnancy apparently kept her away from shooting most of the season and thus, any appearances were bound to be perceived as a little erratic, but Betty suffers from being a bit of a doll in the hands of the writers. She appears in the story to do or say something and there feels like less and less of a connection between her actions each time she does. In other words, it doesn’t always feel like we’re looking at the same Betty we saw last time. Sure, it’s easy to draw a line connecting the sad, depressed Betty we saw earlier in the season to the bitter, vindictive one we saw last night, but it would be more of a dotted line, or perhaps a series of loops and curves. We don’t expect Mad Men to fill in the blanks for us (quite the opposite, in fact) but with Betty, it feels like sometimes there are whole paragraphs left unwritten between scenes. Betty is now just generically unhappy, no matter the situation, and nothing further needs to be explained about it, apparently.

But she did us a wonderful service by summing up the themes of the episode. Jealousy and selfishness ruled the day for the people of SCDP (and outlying environs) and hung over all the interactions like a toxic layer of smog (another WAY too on-the-nose story element, even if it is historically accurate). Betty is jealous of Megan and a life with Don that she never had. Pete is jealous of Harold for having Beth and not regarding her. Peggy is jealous of Ginsberg and the fact that Roger went to him instead of her. Don is also jealous of Ginsberg and the fact that he’s clearly on a talent elevator going up while Don’s is – at best – idling between floors. Roger is jealous of Pete Campbell’s account prowess and the attention Jane gets from other men. Megan’s friend is jealous of Megan for her wealth and the fact that she doesn’t have to work while trying to launch an acting career and Megan in turn is jealous of her for landing a part on “Dark Shadows,” even if it is a piece of crap.

Don seems to be taking Bert Cooper’s advice to heart and now seems to be devoting far more of his attention to the business. We groaned when he was shown going into the office on the weekend; an action that was much more common when he was married to Betty but we’re not quite sure we’ve ever seen him do since he married Megan. We wonder if that’s indicative of a need to get away from something that confuses or disappoints him (as with Betty) or of it’s merely because the week before Thanksgiving is the busiest week of the year in the ad industry. Regardless of his reasons for showing up, it’s clear that the business has passed him by while he went on a year-long bender followed by a year-long honeymoon. Those pitches he was lobbing into the Dictaphone were easily the worst ideas we’ve ever heard him utter; downright cringeworthy. And to be honest, his final pitch for Sno-ball didn’t sound all that great to us, either. Marginally better than what he was dictating, and we can see how a client could be spurred on to like it (especially with Don throwing his weight behind the pitch), but there was no question that Michael’s work was far superior. It was a shitty thing Don did, leaving the artwork in the cab, but it was notable how both Peggy and Stan reacted to the news with “Yeah, he’ll do that sort of thing” resigned smiles to Michael. But Michael’s not the type to be polite about that sort of thing and confronted Don directly, going so far as to spit out that he feels sorry for the aging creative man, past his prime. Don, the full weight of his position behind him, comes back with the most cutting thing he could possibly say to someone as demanding of attention and praise as Michael is: “I don’t think of you at all.” But you can tell it bothers Don; not just the confrontation, but that Michael is right and that Don is reduced to hiding better work in order to make his own look good.

The one bright spot – once again – is his marriage. Obviously, it’s problematic, as we’ve seen all season, but Megan can get through to him, even when he’s in a rage, in a way that no other person on the show can, with the exception of Anna (whose ghost loomed over the proceedings). That she got him to hang up the phone without confronting Betty and that she was able to sum up so perfectly what Betty had tried to do speaks incredibly well of her as a spouse. The scene with the two Mrs. Drapers finally meeting face to face was DELICIOUS, though, was it not? Although we really did feel bad for Betty in that scene and later when she read Don’s love note. When you think back at her loneliness and isolation in Ossining, coupled with his cruelly dismissive treatment of her at the time, it’s difficult not to sympathize with her feelings, if not her actions.

Throwing Anna into the proceedings, and worse, using Sally as a method of doing so, was absolutely one of the shittiest things Betty’s ever done (right up there with firing Carla). Not only was it an attempt to “poison” the new Draper marriage from 50 miles away, but it was a way of showing Don that she still knows things about him that are very damaging, should she decide to use them. Granted, she raised a girl like Sally, who has learned from both her parents (after a lifetime of watching them do it to each other) how to hurt other people. And when Betty asked Sally about Don’s reaction to her Anna questions, Sally, her face as composed and inscrutable as her own mother’s and father’s, lightly stuck a knife in Betty’s ribs and twisted it, acting the entire time as if she was saying something totally innocent when in fact, she knew she was hurting her mother as much as she possibly could. “Can I go out and play now?”

Oh man, those two really did a number on that little girl’s head, didn’t they?

We’ll have more in our Mad Style recap later this week, but a few things before we go:

  • “How Jewish are they? Fiddler on the Roof: cast or audience?”
  • Outright comedy is economically deployed on this show, but Betty and the Reddi-Whip is a definite laugh-out-loud moment.
  • The upper class suburban housewife drag in that Weight Watcher’s meeting was costuming nirvana.
  • It was notable that Roger seemed to be genuinely sorry for what he did to Jane. It was also notable that he didn’t actually say that he was sorry and only talked about how his actions made him feel about himself.
  • Betty’s time in Weight Watchers is offering her the substitute for the therapy she desperately needs and will never seek out. Henry didn’t really know what to make of the “I’m here to help you as you’ve helped me” speech because he’s not used to seeing her being unselfish and being so perceptive.
  • Ginsberg’s turning into a little shit, isn’t he?

 

[Photo Credit:  Jordin Althaus/AMCTV]

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/J2VE4NE2FY2BP4QD2XOYKJGLPI Laura

      I LOL’ed a few times during this episode. Ready Whip, Pete’s fantasy on the couch, and I always LOL for Roger’s one liners. 

      • http://asskickingadviser.com/ Ass Kicking Adviser

         I totally agree. He gets all the good lines. Like last week when Pete was taking the skis and he said, ‘and I got to see that.’ Too funny.

        • http://annequichante.wordpress.com/ Anne

          My favorite was when Pete said they were doing an article on hip ad agencies, and Bert said, “HEP.”

      • AudreysMom

         Actually the Ready Whip thing wasn’t funny to me at all. If you’ve had food issues you know exactly what Betty was feeling  and the sudden repulsion that followed. Other moments were funny – Roger most often. Just not that one.

        • filmcricket

          Agreed. It reminded me of nothing so much as Johnny Sack coming home and finding Ginny bingeing on The Sopranos (and Weiner’s time there is becoming more and more obvious as Mad Men goes on). Betty’s a horrible person, but that moment wasn’t funny, nor was it meant to be, I don’t think.

        • jessicasac

          Agreed, she doesn’t act much but you could almost sense her desperation.

        • Mariana Vial

          I totally agree, it did not seem funny to me at all, just a real illustration of a battle with food.  Also, did you notice that all of the women had shots with them eating, or at least with food present?

        • Chantelle James

          It wasn’t funny to me, either. I saw her blindly, automatically reach for something she knew would comfort her after being confronted with Megan and then I saw her suddenly realize what she was doing. I saw it that way because I’ve lived that way for most of my life. Seeing her in this situation, my heart broke a little for her – even though I don’t like her all that much.

    • MissAnnieRN

      Last night’s ep was easily the worst of the season to date. However, kiernan Shipka continues to kill it with her acting chops, having gone “full Betty” last night, particularly in her exchange with Don. I could hardly believe that don let her et away with her impetuous little comment. If my son said those things to me he would have been reprimanded for being disrespectful. In 2012.

      • charlotte

        I disagree. I loved this episode. To me it is just thrilling to see how everything is turning out. Roger and Jane not being “done” with each other, Don’s past coming back in an unexpected moment, Sally turning into Betty, Betty still wanting to be happy, Ginsberg taking over, Megan not being perfect…

        • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf UltimaEsperenza

          Don’t disagree o harshly honey. I got an email response from TLo telling me to take myself to another site because I disagreed with them about this episode. It’s like having your favorite musician tell you not to bother buying their album because you didn’t like one song. Bitter Kittens beware!!!

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            Actually, we replied to your comment in the comments section here. You obviously have your Disqus settings setup to send you email replies but we didn’t send you an email.

            And this is your only warning. One more and you get banned.

        • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf UltimaEsperenza

          Don’t disagree o harshly honey. I got an email response from TLo telling me to take myself to another site because I disagreed with them about this episode. It’s like having your favorite musician tell you not to bother buying their album because you didn’t like one song. Bitter Kittens beware!!!

    • schadenfreudelicious

      One could not help but watch in wonder as Betty the master manipulator was skillfully outplayed by Sally, she could turn out to be a rather formidable (and perhaps frightening) combination of her parents worst traits…..

      • Sobaika

        Poor Sally. She never really had a chance, did she?

        • schadenfreudelicious

          She has always been such a keen observer of her surroundings… I think her fate may have been sealed as you suggest, and now that she knows how to emote on command?..methinks the teenage years are going to be a challenge to put it mildly….

          • Susan Crawford

            I think the scene with Megan where Sally is learning an acting exercise is a portent of things to come. When it comes to REAL acting chops, I would say Sally is already Oscar-worthy. Her ability to lie, to be and say what the situation seems to demand is incredible. She has spent her entire young life trying to make her way through the emotional minefield that was her parents’ sad excuse for a marriage. She has spent years trying to figure out  how to survive.

            And she has invested SO much energy into digesting experiences and disappointments that NO child should even be aware of. Oh, yes, I would agree, schadenfreudelicious – this child is heading for an adolescence that will be legendary!

            • Glammie

              I keep thinking Weiner and co. really lucked out with Kieran Shipka.  She started so young, but she’s developed into a kid who can hold her own scenes–and her channeling of Betty is amazing. They haven’t been able to give Bobby storylines in the same way because they just haven’t had the kid actor for it–well, maybe third time’s the charm.  

              Yeah, what Sally’s seeing is awful, but my friends and I saw similar things a bit later.  Sally’s going to be a serious cynic at the least.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1344922354 Eric Scheirer Stott

               At least she seems to be dealing with the family issues for the present, not screaming, binge eating or withdrawing.

        • charlotte

          January Jones pointed out that Sally is on the way to becoming Anna Wintour, and this storyline agreed with her. Also makes me imagine a “Mean Girls” style spin-off. Sally as a high school schemer would be interesting.
          For now I still like Sally though, and I really hope she’s not going there.

          • Spicytomato1

            Oh wow, despite her cruelty to her parents I can’t imagine her as a mean girl at school. I see her as being the opposite, in fact, given how her family experiences have left her feeling isolated and alienated. 

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

              It’s not that much of a stretch.  A few years back (S3 I think) Don and Betty were called in to talk to Sally’s teacher about her teasing another girl and acting out.

            • P M

               I see Sally being a manipulative bully to some poor kid.

            • Linlighthouse

              Poor Sally was grieving because her grandfather had just died. But you’re right, there are other ways to behave when you’ve lost a loved one, and Sally’s way was to bully.

          • lee66132000

            I’m not really surprised.  I have never regarded Sally in the same ideal light that most fans of this show have done.

            I see that the road to idealizing Megan continues.

          • Little_Olive

            I actually would not like that spin. I like that Sally acts like that towards her close ones (and sometimes others) because she defends herself and she does not now to behave otherwise, but they make clear that she is not of cruel nature. IMO, transforming her into a regular mean girl, aside of not becoming her -she has class- would take away so much from that depth.   

            • rosiepowell2000

              Sally has no excuse.  Neither do her parents or the other characters on this show.  They’re just flawed.  Sally has always had a cruel nature.  I’ve been aware of this, ever since she began bullying Bobby either in Season 2 or Season 3.

            • Glammie

              No excuse?  She’s a kid with lousy parenting–her behavior echoes the tensions in her home.  I don’t see a particularly “cruel” nature–i.e. injuring animals like a future sociopath.  She’s angry and prone to acting out.

              Honestly, if you think bullying is simply the result of an inherently “cruel” nature I hope you don’t deal much with real live kids.

            • charlotte

               My comment was more of a joke, though.

            • LesYeuxHiboux

               I’ve never really seen it made clear that Sally doesn’t have a cruel nature. I’ve never seen her comfort someone or be kind, most of her conversations with Glen revolve around her problems and disliking her mother. She’s been cruel to Bobby. I’ve seen her act entitled, sorrowful, and like an older sibling…but never really empathetic or kind.

            • Little_Olive

              You -as the commenters above- are actually right about that. I guess what I meant to say is she is portrayed as cruel but understandably so -being her mother’s daughter; being more confused as to her identity and sources of love than anything else.  Which is why I maintain that a vapid, typical high school ‘mean girl’ would not suffice.   

    • http://www.facebook.com/yanneng Yan Neng

      Actually I like how ‘obvious’ the themes have become because to be honest, I guess I’m just not that perceptive an audience. I like a theme a week and even though I watch the whole episode, I don’t really get the theme until a second rewatching. And I still like Ginsberg hahahaha I think he’s cute. I am actually a bit shocked by Don’s note to Megan; I didn’t know how sweet they were to each other until then. 

      • Jennifer Coleman

        I find myself wondering if Don was nice like this to her in the beginning. He was so hopeful when he spoke of her to Anna. But Betty is no Megan, so things didn’t last. Is Betty seeing a new Don in that note or remembering how Don was to her before things went so far south?

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          That’s a good question.

        • http://www.facebook.com/yanneng Yan Neng

          Good point! Maybe she was remembering…

        • http://twitter.com/yellowhannah33 yellowhannah33

          I think she was seeing a new Don – and thinking, ‘He never wrote anything that simple and yet beautiful to me or about me’ [although I perceived it as awfully cheesy and like a line for a light bulb's commercial - i wonder if Megan wouldn't also have thought it was somewhat naff] and that’s why she immediately pressed the destruction button and told Sally about Anna, presumably assuming that Megan didn’t know about Anna. 

          • Spicytomato1

            Yeah I thought it was cheesy, too, for a love note. It seemed forced, and therefore not that sweet or endearing to me.

            • Susan Crawford

              It WAS corny, wasn’t it? If this was a pitch for a lightbulb account, Don would have creamed it with a few well-chosen put-downs. And Megan probably thought it was a little nerdy, too. Otherwise, wouldn’t she have tucked it away to save, instead of leaving it around for scrap paper for the kids?

              Full disclosure: I have some pretty cheesy old “love notes” from my long-lost youth that I knew were dumb when I got them, but saved anyway. Admittedly, they ARE written in cuneiform on stone tablets, but I suspect Megan is a pretty modern gal who would only save things that REALLY matter.

          • Vodeeodoe

            Not to mention he wrote a love note to Megan on the back of his son with another woman’s drawings. That was a bad decision and a tacky one.

            • thenewdemographers

              Pretty sure that it’s more like Bobby took what he thought was scratch paper and made a drawing on the back of it.

        • http://twitter.com/yellowhannah33 yellowhannah33

          I think she was seeing a new Don – and thinking, ‘He never wrote anything that simple and yet beautiful to me or about me’ [although I perceived it as awfully cheesy and like a line for a light bulb's commercial - i wonder if Megan wouldn't also have thought it was somewhat naff] and that’s why she immediately pressed the destruction button and told Sally about Anna, presumably assuming that Megan didn’t know about Anna. 

        • rosiepowell2000

          ["But Betty is no Megan, so things didn't last."]

          You’re not saying that it was Betty’s fault that Don failed to treat her as well as he does Megan, are you?

          • Jennifer Coleman

            Not at all. Megan simply does not take Don’s shit. And he seems to respect that, for what it’s worth. Betty’s personality is not the same as Megan’s. The 10 years (give or take) difference in their ages has something to do with it (Betty was raised to be adored, the pampered housecat), but she took a long time to confront Don, even when she suspected he was lying to her, it was years before she went face to face. I think Megan would immediately get in his face – maybe because of her parents’ situation. Too, her father urged her to not give up her dreams, as opposed to the family advice poor Betty got – to hurry up & catch a man before her looks gave out.

        • Fordzo

          I imagined that she was thinking, “A lightbulb…right…screwing some tramp is more like.”

      • Sweetbetty

         Speaking of notes, what did the note left on Megan’s pillow say? 

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

           Gone for bagels. Something about bagels.

        • sweatpantalternative

           She said she went out to get bagels.

        • ClevelandburbsBeth

          “Went to get bagels”

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=49702581 Susan Bullard Mayer

           “Gone to get bagels <3"

        • Jessi03

          “Went to get bagels” followed by a big heart.

        • KatherineGC

          “Gone to get bagels — M”

        • Sweetbetty

           Thank you all.  One day I’ll get a big-screen TV and new glasses :-)

        • http://twitter.com/_KarenX Karen Miller

           Speaking of bagels… those made an appearance on the Weight Watcher list of Delicious Things Betty Must Avoid and Can Never Ever Have. Poor Betty! Lucky Megan!

      • ldancer

        My husband leaned over to me last night and said, “If you haven’t already guessed, this week’s theme is JUDAISM!” Fiddler On The Roof, bagels, MANISCHEWITZ! Oy vey iz mir. Feh! I get nauseated just thinking about that vile stuff. But I so enjoyed young Rosenberg’s “So, how big is your boat?” (or something similar, I can’t remember precisely what he said). That’s a nice Jewish boy who knows exactly what the alte goy at the table is thinking.

        • http://twitter.com/SIxGablesBags SIxGablesBags

           And oh, how we snickered at all of it.  “have it to me by sundown on Friday.”  and “you love the crab rangoon.”

        • Sweetbetty

           Don’t forget how Roger was suddenly exploiting Jane’s Jewishness rather than trying to hide it. 

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            There’s been some speculation on the excellent Basket of Kisses blog that Jane is Jewish, but until recently it wasn’t confirmed. Which seems odd; they were married in 1962 I think – wouldn’t it have been an issue even to have her working in the office, let alone for them to marry? That wasn’t long after they had to go to the mail room to find someone to make Rachel Menken “comfortable.” If she was “passing” in some way that’s an interesting angle to her story that hasn’t been explored.

            • sarahjane1912

              I think Jane probably was trying to ‘pass’ earlier in her career or maybe she didn’t have to ‘pass’ at all. We don’t know much about her parentage and if her father was Jewish and married a Gentile then while Jane has the Jewish name, she wouldn’t technically be Jewish, would she [?] since Jewishness is passed through the maternal line? Her father could well have been non-practising [hence being able to, or not caring about, marrying a non-Jew] and all Jane has inherited is the name, not the actual practice of the religion, if that makes sense. Correct me if my hypothesis is wrong, of course, and if I’ve gotten my ‘facts’ incorrect! ;-)

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

              Jane started working there about two years after that first meeting with Rachel Menken.  But even if they had other Jewish secretaries at the time, they wouldn’t have even considered bringing one in for the meeting.  They were looking for a man who they could pass off as one of their execs.

    • Lindsay Lyon

      The last few episodes have had me concerned about Peggy’s career. It seems Stan was right in predicting that hiring Ginsberg would lead to her being overshadowed, as driven home by all of the ads with his name attached to them. We always see her working, but we never actually see her get rewarded for it. That, combined with her attitude lately, makes me feel like a big break is coming for her soon. 

      I really like Ginsberg, though, so I hope he sticks around. Boy is cute, funny, AND talented. Yum.

      • Sobaika

        Agreed. There have been way too many nods to Peggy’s career at Sterling Campbell Draper Pryce (a pact with Kevin, removal from the beans account, the hiring of Ginsberg, Bert calling her a little girl, her awkward performance at Miracle Whip, no ads with her name on them, etc.)

        I wonder what they’re leading to – and whether Don will stick up for her.

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          I actually hadn’t considered at first that Don wanted his name in a credit (but of course he would!), I thought he was worried for Peggy. Silly me. I would hope that he’d stick up for her, and I think he will, at least just to stick it to Ginsberg.

        • mars tokyo

           You mean Cool Whip.

          • kj8008

             I don’t think Cool Whip ever came in a can. Redi-Whip, yes.

            • Glammie

              Of course, while Don is going after Cool Whip, Betty’s huffing the competition.  

      • UrsNY

        Yeah, I wonder how much foreshadowing was intended for that moment in the Megan quits episode. The one where Don looks out the conference room window, seeing Michael, Megan and Stan walking one way, deeper in the office, and Peggy was walking towards the exit. Ever since then I’ve been waiting for Peggy to jump ship. Roger saying “every man for himself” had to break through. There’s no future for her there. They’re never going to promote or even support her. She has to know that now.

        One of the reasons I like Ginsberg is that he’s already figured that out.

      • http://www.facebook.com/yanneng Yan Neng

        I agree. YUM. I wish they’ll throw in some sexy scenes with him lolol.

        but on a serious note, I really am worried for Peggy too. I’m not too sure about the big break though ):

      • Little_Olive

        I fear the opposite: it would be more real (I may sadly be biased by experience here) to have her go down the usual women-at-mens-work path:  work hard and perform almost excellently, almost being key: she dwells on her mistakes -while men have mastered the art of minimizing them- does not get the acknowledgement she deserves, thinks she need to work even harder and does so, harbors a growing resentment and finally reaches a point where she needs to -as men also know how to do- vehemently demand such acknowledgement, only to find a lukewarm response -because, after all, the person across the table does not know what the big deal is and they also are a man-, which she shall analyze and reshape in her mind to be ‘enough coming from them’ and maybe even ‘what she deserves for being betrayed by her emotions and showing female weakness’.
           

      • Redlanta

         She is yet, another in the long line of women in Don’s life, that start out full of optimism and promise.  Then Don ignores or belittles them in to dullness.  Like Faye saif last season- he only likes the beginning of things….

    • http://www.facebook.com/AdriannaGrezak Adrianna Grężak

      I LOVE GINSBERG

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

         He is too arrogant.

        • Sobaika

          I don’t necessarily disagree, but on a show with the likes of Pete, Don, and Roger, Ginsberg doesn’t exactly jump out as the arrogant one.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

             How about wreckless arrogance, then?

        • magickat

          I don’t know — I see it more as competitive, playful banter, combined with his social awkwardness.

      • MilaXX

         He’s creepy. I have visions of him going postal.

        • MK03

          Ginsberg is a disaster in the making. I wonder how many more times Don will let him shoot himself in the foot.

        • MK03

          Ginsberg is a disaster in the making. I wonder how many more times Don will let him shoot himself in the foot.

          • KQ67

            For a little guy he’s got giant balls.

            • Qitkat

              I don’t think it’s all that uncommon for *little guys* to have developed overly large egos and giant balls to make their way in this world. It often starts in childhood, having to deal with teasing.

            • MK03

              On the flip side, it has been my (personal) experience that small women often have nasty tempers and wicked senses of humor. My theory is that if we didn’t, nobody would take us seriously. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/JO2ZPMWZR7BENRHIQ7DYGJP2HQ Melanie

         Ginsberg is that guy in the office who says what everyone else is thinking, but is too smart to say out loud.  It’s a useful role, but usually short-lived.

    • VanessaDK

      It makes me sad to see Don and Peggy so quickly decline from their creative apex, but just as much a it is a sign of the times changing rapidly, it is also a sign that creativity cycles.  Don and Peggy have been through a lot and are burnt out and sometimes desperate.  They have a lot invested and a lot to lose.  Of course, they also feel like they are in it together.  Ginsberg could do his thing anywhere, has nothing yet to lose, and is creatively fearless.

      • luciaphile

        I don’t think Peggy is done. I think she got a wake up call in the elevator. She’s been a team player too long. She needs to start thinking about herself and her career. Calling it that she leaves SCDP by the end of this season for another agency.

        • formerlyAnon

           I’ve been wondering if they’ll take her out of SCDP by having her go to another agency or leave with one or more of her co-workers to strike out on their own. (Though I don’t know with whom. She doesn’t have the mojo to pull this off without a strong partner or partners.)

          This is, of course, colored by the fact that I want her to be successful, and I don’t see her getting the next bump up at SCDP.  In order to keep her subplots in heavy rotation, she’d have to reunite with either SCDP itself or some of her co-workers in fairly short order, I suspect.

          • filmcricket

            Well, she and Ken do have that pact. Not really sure why Ken wants to leave, though. When he was still at McCann he said he’d rather answer to someone like Don than to an empty suit, and his work at SCDP still gives him enough time to write. He doesn’t seem unhappy. On the other hand, his relaxed attitude isn’t exactly what Peggy’ll need if they try to make a go of it elsewhere.

            Of course, if he does jump ship, he’ll have all the plots in the world just based on the shit that goes down at the office…

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

              SCDP has been having serious financial issues since they lost Lucky Strike, and I’m sure the possibility of them going out of business is still in the air.  It’s not a bad idea for an employee in that situation to consider their options and look for something more secure.

      • cluecat

        I’m a little annoyed by it the Don/Peggy decline.  The early seasons were so built around showing Don’s genius (Don IS Sterling Cooper, remember?) and Peggy’s plucky rise from secretary, and now we are supposed to believe he’s washed up by forty and she’s doing whiff after whiff?     

        • formerlyAnon

           It happens.

        • Glammie

          Ad agencies do run in cycles, so SCDP could easily be in a slump and not seen as quite current as some other agencies.  Don may not be in a slump as much as he doesn’t have his finger on the zeitgeist.  Doesn’t mean he won’t get there, but he’s got to want to.

          Peggy actually does seem to be in a slump.  I’ll be curious if she snaps out of it and how.  

          • sarahjane1912

            Yeah, a slump despite working all hours at the office [sigh]. Where’s Abe?! At home with take-out?

            I hope she snaps out of it too. Possibly because I recently read the book ‘Mad Women’ which was marketed as a story of the ‘real Peggy Olsen’ [by Jane Maas] I can’t help but feel that Peggy WILL have a win soon and that she will turn her slump around. Remember too that snide little comment from Stan when Ginzo rushes from the office to confront Don “Well, he’ll be useless for the rest of the day” [or words to that effect]? I think the whole team is probably aware that Ginzo has a problem with his obsessive need to be the best ["I've got a million more (ideas)"] but that he’s let down by his temper/attitude at the same time. I think Peggy could exploit that [we rarely see her lose it -- and when she does, wow! -- only see her working her butt off]. Interesting times ahead, I suspect!

            • Glammie

              I suspect Peggy will have a rebellious moment and really let something zing.  

              There were actually several early successful women in advertising–Mary Wells Lawrence is the one I heard about as a kid.  I was amazed that the most successful adman was a woman.  Shirley Polykoff (“Does she . . . or doesn’t she?”) was another–and even born in Brooklyn.

              I think Ginsburg will be around for a bit–the Jewish guy who’s not trying to pass as a goyim in terms of his facade (as opposed to Jane Sterling).  We’re seeing a culture clash as much as anything–though Ginzo seems to have his own unique weirdness as well.  Ginsberg says what he thinks and then, I’d guess, moves on to the next thing.  Very much not the emotional buttoned-up demeanor at SCDP where everything’s been indirect on the emotional front.  

            • sarahjane1912

              Oh yes indeedy. Ginzo comes across as even more ‘weird’ because his behaviour is pitted against those MM stalwarts who’ve been hiding and obfuscating for years! But he’s part of a new generation, even if he’s the same age group as Stan/Peggy/etc. Remember too, that in S1, when they had to find someone Jewish to sit in on Rachel’s pitch, there was much more of an ‘us and them’ attitude; ‘they have their own agencies’ was the feeling then. And now ‘they’ not only have their own agencies and companies, ‘they’ are joining the traditional agencies [that's not me saying 'they' btw, I'm doing it from the POV of the agency staff!!]. 

              It’s magic stuff. Ginsberg really shines a mirror on the buttoned-up crap that has cloaked the agency from the start and I’m loving it. And that exchange he has with Roger re the wine account: brilliant! :-)PS. ‘Mad Women’, the book I cited, was full of anecdotes from and about these amazing women in ad firms in the ’60s. The book started in 1962 when Jane Maas was a junior copywriter but followed right up to — and beyond — her part in the ‘I Heart NY’ campaign. And as I said, she had major quote/stories from the women working with her and around her at other agencies throughout. I really enjoyed the book [even if I found it a bit too 'light' at times!].

            • Glammie

              Yep, doesn’t Roger say when they’re hiring Ginsberg “Everybody has one.”

              Damn, Roger is the most entertaining bigot on TV since Archie Bunker.

            • sarahjane1912

              Oh yes, marvellous; I’d forgotten that quip. Classic Roger. :-)

              We didn’t have ‘All in the Family’, but instead ‘Till Death Do Us Part’ [the UK version which inspired the US show] but I’ve seen enough clips over the years to know what you mean by Archie Bunker. ;-)

    • beebee10

      I agree that there is something heavy handed about the writing this season. I’m loathe to complain about the writing but it’s true. Not the same tension under the surface this season, but who knows what’s in store. 

      That scene of Betty walking around Don and Meghan’s apt was great. 

    • NewYorkNY

      Interesting how Roger’s honesty surfaced at the same time Don’s DIS-honesty – most notably in the securing of two different accounts.  Roger very graciously admitted that the “lower half of the bus” idea had a boost from “creative” — but Don chose to leapfrog off Michael Ginsberg’s superior snowball idea to push his own, inferior one, and eliminated the evidence. 

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        Yep. Not only that, but he had to dig through Michael’s folders and see what he was up against before coming up with his own ideas. And then in the office, made it seem as if he was coming up with them off the top of his head. Don’s desperation in those scenes was very painful to watch.

        • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

          I love that Michael’s folder was labelled “Shit I gotta do.”

      • sarahjane1912

        But isn’t it also interesting that Don was honest about what happened with the art [he deliberately left it, didn't forget it] when talking to Ginsberg about it in the elevator? Harry told the other creatives that Don had ‘left [the art] in the cab” so at the time, I suspect Don played it that way [said he forgot it and to be honest, it looked like he genuinely did to me at the time] but when Ginsberg confronted him, he was straight-up about having left the art in the cab because he wanted to push his own idea. Don was deliberately making Ginsberg feel like a junior member of the team [which he is, of course] and hammered the point home with the “I don’t think of you at all” comment. Chilling but magic stuff that! :D

        • Sweetbetty

           Don left Ginzo’s art in the cab deliberately.  Harry asked Don if he wanted him to grab them and Don said no, he wasn’t going in with two.  Harry and Stan didn’t point out the deliberateness of Don’s action but Ginzo saw right through it.

          • sarahjane1912

            *Blush* I know that now! ;-) 

            I watched the ep online and that scene was rather ‘pixellated’ on my computer screen so I missed that crucial bit of drama. Feel stupid for missing it, to be honest, but hey ho. That’s why I love TLo and the BKs’ comments to boot; a fabulous main course of analysis with a lavish pudding of comments to follow. Always a pleasure. :-)

            • Sweetbetty

               I live for these comments to clear things up for me.  I couldn’t read what was on Megan’s pillow note but knew the BKs would clear it up for me, and they did!  It’s just impossible to take in every little detail of the show in one watching, which is usually all I get.

    • Scimommy

      Great recap, but I happen to love both the obviousness (maybe I’m just obtuse) and the Betty storyline. I think it works well in the story and is realistic, the way she goes from depressed and overweight to trying to help herself with Weight Watchers, to parroting lines from said Weight Watchers meetings to her husband, to bitterness and vindictiveness at the sight of the life she wanted with Don being lived by another (young, gorgeous, and thin) woman, to trying to convince herself and her family that all is well because “no one has anything better” than she does. That’s a very childish thing to say, but Betty has always been childish. Megan may be younger, but she is more of a mature adult than Betty has ever been.

      Transitioning to from January Jones/Betty Draper Francis to Alexis Bledel/Beth Dawes for a moment. While JJ may not be a great actress, I think she is perfect as Betty because she can do the stiff childlike thing. I bet when Matthew Weiner was looking to cast Beth, he said “Get me an actress who is very beautiful, has dark hair, and is stiff and childlike”. Seriously, does that not scream Alexis Bledel? I loved every moment of Gilmore Girls (well, except the last season and a half) despite the fact that she can’t act her way out of a paper bag, but she is perfect casting for this part because she is essentially the dark haired counterpart of JJ.

      • lee66132000

        [". That's a very childish thing to say, but Betty has always been childish. Megan may be younger, but she is more of a mature adult than Betty has ever been."]

        Like I said, Weiner has been idealizing Megan too much during this season.  

      • PhillyJen

        I like the obviousness, too. And I do think it is intentional for story purposes. Everything is loud and obvious and scary in a way the characters (and the audience) isn’t used to. It’s the times. The world is different. 

        And I think Betty is exactly where it makes sense for her to be. She’s in a marriage that doesn’t make her happy because nothing can make you happy, you have to do it yourself. That’s adulthood, but as you note, Betty isn’t emotionally mature. And now even her body has betrayed her. She never was Grace Kelly, but she looked like her. Not anymore. The mask is gone. She’s the same petulant child who lashes out when she’s in pain, but it didn’t work this time and that hurts even worse. 

        • Sweetbetty

           ” And I do think it is intentional for story purposes.”        Speaking of intentional, do you think it was intentional on Matt Wiener’s part to have this episode air the very week that the movie of the same name premiered?

          • Jessi03

            As soon as I saw the title, I figured there was some cross-promotion going on.

          • filmcricket

            I was trying to figure out if there was some connection, but Dark Shadows is being produced by – well, a bunch of people – and distributed by Warner Bros. It doesn’t seem to have any connection to Lionsgate.

        • girliecue

          What you just said. I like the obviousness because there is so much going on in any given episode that an occasional heavy-handed line helps me to keep focus on things. If the majority of lines or visuals were obvious, then I’d complain, but as it is now they serve a purpose.

          And your point about Betty is dead on. I’m not going to argue that Don’s treatment of her caused her a lot of pain and unhappiness, but the fact is Betty was an unhappy person before she met Don and chooses to remain that way. I had all the sympathy in the world for her the first couple of seasons, but once I realized how invested she was in her unhappiness, she became a lot less interesting.

        • LesYeuxHiboux

           That’s an interesting point. The early seasons were all about that veneer of the beautiful people living the perfect life at a time when anything unpleasant was swept resolutely under the rug. Now all of the problems are big, loud, and pervasive. Riots in the streets, toxic fog in the air. The problems that have been brewing have become impossible to hide.

      • lee66132000

        January Jones is a very good actress.

        • TxMom2011

          Are you kidding? Have you ever seen her play any other part? She is the same dull lifeless character in every role. She is pretty. But good gawd how can anyone call her GOOD at acting.

        • Glammie

          I don’t think she’s terrible, but I wouldn’t call her “very good.”  Her affect is pretty flat most of the time, which is partially intended.  But compare what she does with, say, Julianne Moore doing any number of repressed housewives and there’s a vast difference.  On MM, itself, she’s noticeably weaker than Elisabeth Moss and Christina Hendricks as well as the actors playing Don, Pete, Roger and Bert.  

          Compare Peggy’s fight over living together with her mother to any of Betty’s fight scenes–there’s a point where Peggy says “So you want me to be alone?” and her voice thickens and chokes up–it’s perfectly done and a nice bit of emotional revelation.  You don’t see that kind of layering with Jones’ performance.  I think Weiner and co. write to accommodate Jones’ limitations.

          • Sweetbetty

             I didn’t start watching MM until season three, and only because of TLo’s recaps.  The first thing that struck me was how restrained all the acting seemed to be.  Nobody seemed to display any real emotion.  I know that subtly displaying emotion is a real acting gift, but I just couldn’t understand why everyone on this show seemed so restrained.  Even when giving presentations to clients Don & Co. seemed to be holding back any sort of enthusiasm.  I kept hearing how it was such a groundbreaking show so decided this must be what was meant, although it struck me as odd.  The storyline and character development still drew me in.  I’ve never seen January Jones in any other role so I have nothing to compare her Betty to, but I totally agree that E. Moss has shown a much broader range of acting skills than most of the others on the show.

            • Glammie

              I think MM is very literary in its approach.  A lot of the earlier seasons seemed like they could have been short stories in the New Yorker.  Once I started looking at it that way instead of as a realistic depiction of the time, it kind of fell into place for me.  Also makes a great show to discuss.  

            • 3hares

              EM has great range, but I wouldn’t put her above most others. It’s a really impressive cast!

          • Flooby

            I agree that January Jones IS a very good actress- just based on her Mad Men work.  She’s very understated and reminds me of Barbara Stanwyck in that you really have to watch her face.  Compared to modern actresses that style of acting seems like underplaying- but I find it very refreshing.  Whenever she’s on screen I can’t take my eyes off her because I want to see the little things she does.  It seems to me that in portraying of Betty JJ uses physicality more than vocal effects to express emotions- as if her own physicality is the one arena of self-expression that Betty doesn’t have completely locked down.  Remember in the Weight Watchers meeting when she was called on and she stood up and did a little embarrassed dip or curtsy to acknowledge her embarrassment to the other ladies?  It was accompanied by a little hand gesture.  Or how she slapped that box off the table after Sally left the room.  I find it all so eloquent.

            • Glammie

              Barbara Stanwyck was an outstanding actress and January Jones is no Barbara Stanwyck.  Among other things, Stanwyck had a terrific voice and used it to convey a great deal.  If you look at her earliest films, she comes as unusually natural and vivid.  Some of it’s movement a lot of it is the voice.  Jones has none of Stanwyck’s gifts or her knack for emotional transitions.

              I don’t think Jones is terrible, but I think she’s limited–and her part is written to accommodate that.  Again, I think the good comparison is to Julianne Moore–a subtle actress who’s played a lot of repressed housewives.  You don’t see, for example, Jones given a lot of big speeches, nor do you see her doing big emotional transitions. You also don’t see John Slattery’s terrific comic timing.  

              In some ways, I’d be happy with more Mona and less Betty when it comes to ex-wives.  More Trudy is also always welcome.

            • filmcricket

              Mona kicks so much ass. Forget Joan and Bobbie Barrett, Mona should be taking Peggy out for drinks. Actually, and this could never happen because of the Roger thing, but a spinoff with Mona, Joan and Peggy is something I’d watch the hell out of.

            • Glammie

              Yeah, I really hated seeing that marriage break up, just because the scenes between Mona and Roger were always great.  Mona totally had Roger’s number.  I am all for a Mona, Joan and Peggy spin-off.

            • formerlyAnon

              It’d be like a more complex version of “9 to 5″ !

            • sarahjane1912

              Guffaw! Joan = Dolly Parton; Mona = Lily Tomlin; Peggy = Jane Fonda?! Hmm … only problem is, Peggy is LOADS smarter than Jane [in the role]. Would be fun though. ;-)

        • Sobaika

          More like she is perfectly cast in the roll of Betty. The jury is still out on whether she can do beyond that.

        • kcarb1025

          No she isn’t. She was godawful in Taken 2.0 and even more awful, if one can believe it, in the new Xmen movie. She is good at Betty because she IS Betty.

          • charlotte

            Well her other roles weren’t exactly deep characters, were they? I haven’t seen all of her other movies, but it seems to me that they were all mainstream blockbusters and therefore focused on her looks more than on her acting chops. Another example: when I first watched that Troy movie, I thought Diane Kruger was a terrible actress, but she won me over when she played actual characters in later movies.
            And about the “she IS Betty” part: I think you’d have to get to know her personally first to be able to judge her.

            • Sweetbetty

               Last night I happened to catch an episode of The Actors Studio that featured members of the cast of MM.  I think the episode was about a year old.  Of all the cast members, JJ was the stiffest, most awkward by far.  I get that many actors are shy in real life but she’s been thrust into the limelight now for several years and it seems she should have loosened up a bit.  The woman I saw last night *was* Betty.

            • sarahjane1912

              I’d be interested to see that. Will have to do a search to see if it’s been put online. ;-)

              Re JJ having little skill outside the Betty biz, I can see that had I only seen her as Betty [and Emma Frost in X-Men] that I would feel the same way, but I also recall that she had a small yet significant role in ‘Love Actually’ [where she plays a part-love-interest to one of the main characters] and she was just fab as this dewy ingenue [with sex on the brain nevertheless!]. When I watched it again [last Christmas, bit of a tradition!!] I had to point her out to friends with whom I was watching it; they are all MM addicts too and they didn’t recognise her at all! So maybe she does have a few more strings to her bow than people might think. :-)

        • forward_slash_PRS

          I think January Jones is very underrated as an actress.

      • Glammie

        Yep, it’s not bothering me that much either.  The on-the-nose semi-therapeutic talk does jibe with what was happening at the time.  We’re seeing the earliest glimmers of consciousness raising and the self-help movement.  

      • Sweetpea176

        I didn’t take the “no one has anything better” line as being childish on Betty’s part – I actually took it as a bit of growth.  I took it as a bit of awareness that her kids (and husband) know that she feels competitive with Megan, and that her manipulation of Sally was childish.  What do kids need to hear from Mommy in that moment?  That Mommy thinks she has the very best life there is.  Maybe she’s realizing that she won’t get her kids to love her more by making them like Megan and Don less.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/CW5LKKJDK3YKBQNJ3YRGRPYZJY Katherine

      Ginsberg behaved badly but he had every reason to be upset. Don acted like in insecure asshole. Isn’t this the first time we’ve seen Don look anything less than talented in a professional setting? That devil add had a retro feel that would have gone out of style years ago… Also I’ve never seen Don do anything so underhanded to a colleague because he is work was being outshined. I’m really happy that the show addressed Don’s rustiness after neglecting copy for so long..  Great recap!

      • the_archandroid

        I think the last time we saw Don being anything close to ineffectual at work was after he won the advertising award for the Glo-coat spot.  He went into a pitch meeting drunk and stole Jane’s cousin’s idea of “the cure for the common breakfast.”  But even that isn’t in the same league as what happened with Ginsberg here.  I mean it just continues to highlight how out of touch and irrelevant Don is allowing himself to become. He can’t hang with the Beatles, and he can’t keep up with li’l Ginzo.  Don’s got to do something , and do it quick. 

    • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

      I have been in Betty’s camp since day one, but after last night’s episode, I think she’s totally unredeemable. What she said at Thanksgiving dinner — “I’m thankful that I have everything I want, and that no one else has anything better” — was appalling and ranks right up there with slapping Sally and trying to sabotage Don and Megan’s marriage using her daughter. Maybe it’s human but it’s also self-interested in the extreme and I’m no longer interested in Betty as a character. Next.

      I appreciate Megan more and more not only for who she is as a character on the show, but for the fact that there needs to be someone on this show who is actually likeable, who can be flawed but have redeeming qualities in order for the show to be watchable. The writing this season has been so heavy-handed and the characters so morose to watch (“every man for himself” indeed), and while I appreciate the risks the writers are taking with character, I find myself slogging through the miasma of these unlikeable people week after week and wondering why. I feel bleak about it.

      • jblaked

        I don’t believe Betty believes what she said – instead it seemed like a mantra she was reciting in the hope that it would be or come true. But sadly, Betty will never be happy. If she was skinny again, married to Don and living in that swanky apartment, she’d still be miserable. While it seems Don can be happy for periods of time, he is obviously also a deeply unhappy person and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he and Betty eventually find their way back to each other once megan moves on or (shudder) dies. Don and Betty part 2 will be like Who’s afraid of Virginia wolf. Poor Sally.

        • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

           “Poor Sally” is my point. I don’t think Betty believes what she said, either. The example she’s setting for her children — at the Thanksgiving dinner table no less! — that it’s all about having what you want and the fact that no one else has anything better — gad that’s appalling. Surely she has a bit better handle on her miserable self on Thanksgiving Day as she teaches her children to be thankful.

          Maybe it’s just heavy-handed bad writing, but it’s so appalling it’s like a caricature of who Betty really is, if that makes sense. The writers have carefully crafted her character for four seasons and I have been Team Betty all along, but now they have offended my sensibility of who she is.

          • bittersweet73

            I agree with you.  I’ve always found Betty to be a very sympathetic character, and have gotten in arguments with people defending her.  I don’t know if it’s just lazy writing or what. She used to be a very well written complex character, and now she’s just a supervillian. 

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

              I don’t agree that she’s a supervillain, but she’s more inscrutable than before and I agree, no longer a well written complex character. 

              I too have gotten in arguments with people defending her. What I don’t get is this extremely emotional reaction people have to her. She’s not a real person after all. 

            • P M

               She’s NOT?! My world just shattered ;P

            • kcarb1025

              Many people were actually raised by family members exactly like her. In my case, my father. So yes, she is a “real person” in that her characterization does happen in real life and there are real victims of narcissistic personalities.

            • Flooby

              I’ve also been taken aback at some of the vitriol directed toward the Betty character (and by extension January Jones) and I think you just explained it for me- a lot of people have been victimized by narcissistic childish adults and so hate that personality.  

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

              Right, but that makes her character interesting, to me. It’s just odd for people to get so personally emotional about a fictional character. 

            • Sweetbetty

               But isn’t that what art is all about?  Whether it’s a TV show, movie, play, book, painting, music, whatever, the goal is to connect with people emotionally.  The fact that this one episode has generated 18 pages of comments here, including yours, shows how emotionally involved people get in this show.  And, yes, if a character brings back a deeply buried memory from youth, whether painful or pleasant, the emotions can come rushing to the surface.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

              Of course people should react emotionally to the character, but I feel like that emotion is something that should be enjoyed, even if it’s negative — it’s part of the art, to me. It’s when people are shouting me down in bars for liking the character, because I shouldn’t because she’s not a good parent, that I have an issue. She’s not a good parent, I wouldn’t like to get a drink with her, but I really love watching her do her thing on screen. 

      • MK03

        I think that is the quintessential Betty line. She’s always had that mentality; that’s not something that can be blamed on the divorce. Betty has always been materialistic, jealous and miserable. And she will always be miserable, because she’s got so many issues and has no idea what to do about them. I think she’s very similar to Pete is some ways: She comes from a wealthy, WASPy family, was raised by a total bitch of a mom, and was told all her life that she wanted the American Dream, only to be dissatisfied when she got it. And she always wants what she can’t have.

        • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

           le sigh. I’m sure you are right. I agree with everything you say. I’m surprised at how hard it pushed my buttons to see her display her quintessential line at the Thanksgiving dinner table, basically teaching her kids that this is how you live and be thankful in the world.

          My unease with it probably says as much about me as it does about Betty. I mean, I’ve seen that Betty-girl through thick and thin. But this line, in this context, was a last straw for me. I think it was over-written, actually, banging the viewer over the head (to refer to T’Lo’s point about announcement of themes) when a thought bubble would have sufficed. I’ll try to shut up about it now.

          • Sweetbetty

             I couldn’t believe that line either, especially the second part.  If one of my kids or grandkids had ever said that I’d have jumped all over them.  First of all, I’d have told them that they’ll probably never have, nor should they have, everything they want (what is there to work towards at that point?) but that they should be happy that they have everything that they need (here you can tell them about the less fortunate people of the world).  Then I’d have really lit into them for even *wanting* nobody to have anything better.  That’s the height of greed and selfishness and putting too much importance on material things.  Instead, there’s poor, misguided Betty teaching her kids that that’s the right way to think.  And the cycle will continue.  Unless Sally, and maybe Bobby, become part of the “save the world” mindset that so many young adults had during the late 60s-early 70s.

        • http://twitter.com/sarahofcroydon Lil

           She never got the American Dream, though… it was as much a lie as SC ad campaigns are. Nobody told her her handsome husband would also be an alcoholic abusive liar, nobody told her she’d be sitting at home bored out of her brain. She was seduced by the image (as everybody is in this show, particularly Pete).

        • filmcricket

          The American Dream is about upward mobility through hard work. Absolutely nothing about Betty’s life has anything to do with it: she was born well, she married well, she married better.

          Sorry, I know that was hardly germane to the point you were making, which I agree with. But I get frustrated with the popular culture equating the American Dream with two cars in every garage and three eyes on every fish. Don, identity theft aside, is an embodiment of the American Dream: he came from nothing and can give his children everything. Betty has always had everything.

        • sarahjane1912

          I agree it’s pretty quintessential Betty and plus — especially since her little line was echoed happily by Henry — it also fits in with her role as a Republican wife. I don’t want to get overly political here, but it really sang out to me, with apologies, that Betty and Henry represent the solid family values/monied/self-serving attitude that many right wing types had and still have today. 

          Betty was just representing that, in my humble opinion, even if she doesn’t really have what she says she does and even if she doesn’t believe that ‘no one has it better’. [Not even] deep down she knows that Megan and Don, with their glorious apartment, health/wealth and happiness [and the fact that they only 'have to' have the children for a weekend every fortnight, nicely represented by Betty having to deal with the kids' homework and buy coloured pencils because Dad didn't do it] have it better than she does, and man does that make her jealous! That’s why she was trying, ineffectually, to ‘poison’ the relationship from afar; because she wants Megan and Don’s life to be worse than hers.

        • AZU403

          I found myself sorry to see her – Betty the character, that is – so wooden and closed off, when for her the early seasons were about naming and confronting her dissatisfactions. Henry doesn’t seem to be sabotaging her the way Don did, but she seems to be more imprisoned in life than ever. And as often happens, the weight gain that began (presumably ) as a symptom of her sadness is now another problem in her life.
          Esalen and the human-poetential movement, but Betty is the real poster child.

      • rowsella

         I guess I didn’t take what she said the same way you did.   She is basically saying what she has (family and home) is the best she could ever wish for and all she wants– and she wouldn’t want to trade places with anyone else.  She is telling her family that she thinks they are the best.  I thought it was sweet but also kind of bittersweet because she is also struggling with her bodyweight (which has betrayed her self image) and starving herself of healthy food trying to achieve her previous figure.

        • Sweetbetty

           It would be a sweet and wonderful thing for a wife and mother to say to her family, if it was true.  The fact that we know that Betty does NOT have everything she wants and knows there ARE people (Don and Megan) who appear to have better than she has is what makes it ring so hollow and is so unsettling.

          • Spicytomato1

            Yes…but I took her saying what she did not as completely hollow and more along the lines of “maybe if I say it I’ll actually believe it.”

        • http://twitter.com/Elissa_Malcohn Elissa Malcohn

          Betty’s diet clinched that line for me and made it deliciously ironic.  She says she has everything she wants while her Thanksgiving dinner plate is designed to starve her.  She savors that first bite as though she’ll never eat again.

          The dry toast at the show’s opening came close to, but did not fully convey, the horror of some Weight Watcher’s recipes from that era.  My favorite is their “cheesecake” — bread covered with cottage cheese, sprinkled with cinnamon, and cooked in the toaster oven.  Every time my diabetic mother made one for herself, my father called it a “cowflop.”  His description was accurate.

        • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

           Well, I’d like to believe that.

      • LesYeuxHiboux

         Maybe I’m crazy but I thought Betty’s petty little prayer showed a weird sort of growth. She was trying to find contentment with her family, even as she continues to war with her upbringing of “be the best, the prettiest, the most wanted”. Just the fact of her saying that out loud instead of pursing her lips shows that she is changing.

        • Anna Bergman

           I thought it showed growth also.    In the past Betty would have talked about not having what she wanted

      • JulieTy

        Re: Betty; How about when she locked Sally in the closet? Shot the birds (OK, that was kind of funny, but still . . . )? DELIBERATELY SET HER FRIEND UP FOR AN AFFAIR THAT RUINED HER MARRIAGE?
        Betty has been horrible pretty much from the very start. Yes, I used to pity her, but now I think that Don probably married her for her looks, her education and her family, and then realized she was a vapid, self-centered, petulant child who became a horrible mother to his children.

        I have felt that Don chose Megan over Dr. Faye in no small part because Megan was nurturing to his kids and Faye was self-admittedly no good with children.

        • Glammie

          That was my take as well–Faye was not cut out for the stepmother role and Don wanted someone who could make him feel like he had a family again.

          Betty’s sheer awfulness as a mother has always made it hard for me to feel a lot of sympathy for her.  And it’s not just a time period or WASP thing.  It’s the lack of empathy that’s so chilling.

          One of the many reasons I feel sorry for Sally Draper is that Don is the warmer, better parent and, boy, he ain’t much.

          • Vodeeodoe

            I always had the feeling that Don fell for his vision of a perfect trophy wife to suit his image with Betty. But he took an educated, traveled city girl to the suburbs, got her knocked up and her dreams of something bigger began to die. I don’t think she wanted kids, but that it was what she was supposed to do and what her husband and her parents wanted. What’s happening to her is akin to what’s happening to Pete. I think if he and Trudy stayed in Manhattan, he would be happier and not inclined to cheat.
            I think Don is clueless about his involvement in Betty’s unhappy state of mind, but at least he recognizes now that she was unhappy in their marriage. I’m still rooting for Betty to become happy, despite the fact that the writers really don’t want me to do that.

          • Vodeeodoe

            I always had the feeling that Don fell for his vision of a perfect trophy wife to suit his image with Betty. But he took an educated, traveled city girl to the suburbs, got her knocked up and her dreams of something bigger began to die. I don’t think she wanted kids, but that it was what she was supposed to do and what her husband and her parents wanted. What’s happening to her is akin to what’s happening to Pete. I think if he and Trudy stayed in Manhattan, he would be happier and not inclined to cheat.
            I think Don is clueless about his involvement in Betty’s unhappy state of mind, but at least he recognizes now that she was unhappy in their marriage. I’m still rooting for Betty to become happy, despite the fact that the writers really don’t want me to do that.

            • Spicytomato1

              Nice analysis. It reminds me a bit of my MIL, who slowly spiraled deeper and deeper into depression as a result mostly of feeling stifled by her husband’s expectations and suburban mores. She eventually divorced him once the kids were safely out of the nest in the hope of “regaining her identity, as she put it. But sadly she’s pretty much just floundered in the years, decades actually, since.

              Yes Betty was a terrible mom. Many women are just not cut out for it and she was one of them. I imagine maybe she can someday find a way to reconnect with whatever makes her happy…I’m rooting for her, too.

            • sarahjane1912

              “But he took an educated, traveled city girl to the suburbs, got her knocked up and her dreams of something bigger began to die.”

              Very true … but perhaps — despite your observation that Betty may not have wanted kids and that it might have been what Don/her parents wanted for her, I’m a little unconvinced about that, if only because I think that Betty really did want the ‘total package’ of white wedding + gorgeous husband + lovely house and all that goes with these things. She just didn’t know how horrible and stifling she’d find it until she was living it. 

              On the other hand — sorry, you’ve got me thinking about this now! — she might also have had a dream that this gorgeous ad man was going to whisk her around the world instead and that she’d be living a fabulous life [no wonder she and Don had such a good time in Italy; it took her away from everything, into a world where she was a glamorpuss who attracted flirtatious attention and stayed in gorgeous hotels].

              I worry about Trudy though … it looks like she’s taken to the ‘burbs like a duck to the proverbial, but if Pete continues to be unhappy and to ‘act out’ then how long will it be till SHE [whom I believe is probably as well-educated as Betty is/was] gets stifled like Betty before her?

              PS. Not sure if I want Betty to be happy exactly, but I would like to ‘like’ her a bit more which will only happen if she becomes a better person. ;-)

            • Glammie

              I think we’ve got to keep in mind the time period.  Betty and Don married in the 50s–the big dream at that time was the perfect family in the suburbs.  People weren’t dying to travel overseas because Europe was still associated with WWII.  It wasn’t just Don dictating to Betty the life they should be living.  Betty’s whole generation was buying into that–and Betty’s *always* been a conformist.  Aside from a bit of sexual experimentation, Betty has not shown an interest in flouting convention–she’s not Rachel or Midge or Peggy.  Betty’s big flaw is that she’s passive about her life.  Yes, Don’s attitudes made it worse, but Betty is ultimately responsible for her choices–i.e. instead of trying to create a life she wants, she sort of lets herself drift off with Henry.  Betty likes to be admired–its not an accident she was a model–the recipient of the male gaze, professionally and personally.
              Even within the realms of suburban housewifedom, Betty’s particularly passive.  She didn’t, for example, take the gung-ho volunteer route–she could find a lot to do as a political wife, but she doesn’t.

            • sarahjane1912

              Interesting what you say re “people weren’t dying to travel overseas because Europe was still associated with WWII”. Was that something common to many Americans back then? My parents, Australian but met in London, both sailed to the UK [and then 'did' the Continent, as it was called] in 1956/7; it was considered a rite of passage for university-educated young people from Oz at least, even if it was aspirational rather than typical. 

              I totally get what you mean about Betty not flouting convention though, and yes, I can see that she would have entered her married life knowing that it was everything expected of her. 

              Not sure I agree that she has TOTALLY taken herself out of the political wife gambit though … Of course, it may be an MM-writers plot device [what with JJ's pregnancy and all] but she takes more than a few trips with Henry out of town and I was assuming [am I wrong?] that they were political trips. But yes, she could throw herself into that life much more wholeheartedly, I definitely concede that. Interesting too that she’s not doing Junior League anymore [but hey, maybe part of her withdrawal and passivity -- at the moment at least -- is largely due to her weight gain. She can show up to WW meetings but wouldn't be seen dead, I bet, at a social get-together or charity thing. Or on a horse.] ;-)

            • Glammie

              My parents went to Europe in 1963.  It was a big deal for them.  It was expensive.  People went, of course, but it wasn’t until later that it became something that large numbers of people did as a rite of passage.  There was more of it in the 60s (Swinging London) and when the airlines deregulated in the 70s and air travel became more affordable it became a lot more common.  Even now, though, most people in the U.S. haven’t been to Europe and don’t have a passport.  

              You see some of the dynamic in the Hilton episodes.  I think, by the way, Betty being a model in Italy was one of those borrowings from real life–January Jones modeled in Italy.  In reality, an American model was unlikely to be in Italy in the early 50s–she would have been much more likely to be there in the 60s.  But Betty had money, so maybe she did have a post-college/modeling trip.  

              Betty does some political-wife stuff, but she’s been shown as reluctant and disengaged.  She’s certainly not finding fulfillment that way.  Betty keeps waiting for something to happen to her.

            • Sweetbetty

               Going on a “Grand Tour” of Europe, accompanied by an adult chaperone, has been a rite of passage for young adults, especially males, for a few hundred years.  Mention was made of several of Scarlett O’Hara’s beaus having returned from their Grand Tours.  Even those who lived in Europe made their Grand Tours of all the countries. 

              Many European cities, towns, and villages were damaged or destroyed during WWII so in the early 50s there wasn’t much reason to go there as a luxury vacation, unless you were just curious to see the damage.  By the 60s most of the major cities had been rebuilt (thanks to help fro the good old USA) and tourism had picked back up.  In the late 60s-early 70s it was the *thing* for young adults to backpack through Europe, either on foot or by bicycle.

              As for Betty as a political wife, I believe she does accompany Henry on his trips but only because she knows that’s one area in which he would not back down.  As she’s gained weight she’s been more and more reluctant to appear in public (remember the first scene of this season where she couldn’t get into her dress so stayed home from the dinner they were supposed to attend).  I don’t think she’d be a gung-ho political wife even at her ideal weight; she had to be strongly persuaded by one of her lady friends to get involved in that issue about the (?) water tower (?).  I believe she’d be perfectly content to just dress up pretty and be her powerful, adoring husband’s arm candy (once she’s lost the weight).  I can see her being one of the worker-bees in a political campaign but not being in a position of leadership like many of the political wives we’ve come to know.

            • Glammie

              Yes, I know about the Grand Tour tradition, but it was something pretty much restricted to the affluent and educated.  It took money and time to go.  Scarlett O’Hara’s family is rich.  

              In my own family history, there was an English blacksmith who came over and built a foundry.  It was a big deal that he went back to England at one point for a visit–actually mentioned in his obituary.  Pre-air travel, it took several months.  

        • filmcricket

          What struck me this weekend is that, while Megan has always been nice to the kids, she was the nicest to them on the trip to California, when her official job was that of nanny. The only reason she was on that trip was because Betty fired Carla and Don needed someone to watch the kids while he was busy.

          I think she likes the kids just fine (I’m surprised by how much time they’ve been spending with Don & Megan, actually) but in the season opener I was a bit startled by how much cooler she was towards them than she’d been in California.

          I agree, though, that the kids were a big reason for Don choosing Megan over Dr. Faye.

          • Vodeeodoe

             Don and Betty have some kind of joint custody. When the kids leave Megan says something like we’ll see you in two weeks.

      • http://twitter.com/sarahofcroydon Lil

         Megan seems like the most unrealistic of the characters… she has no real flaws, not in the way that Peggy and Betty and Roger are selfish or Ginsberg is hot-headed or Don is a complete asshole. She knows how to diffuse Don, she knows how to play Betty, she knows how to make perfect ads, she knows how to be the perfect wife, she’s a glamorous actress… it’s cloying compared to the richer characters we’re used to.
        Betty is far more interesting as someone who is so terribly flawed… she takes a step forward and then takes two steps back. I think you’re being too cruel in assessing her thanks (though it’s pretty clumsy writing)… it’s the sort of thing a fifties housewife might say in an ad campaign (it also irks me when people go on about Betty’s treatment of Sally and the kids where Don has a pretty awful track record in parenting, too (throw money at the children when he’s forgotten about them for too long))

        • Glammie

          I like Megan.  I don’t think she’s perfect–perfect would stick with a job she’s good at.  She’s a people pleaser still playing a part right now, but I think we’ll get a better sense of her as the season moves along.

        • Vodeeodoe

          Megan is a wild card to me. She is so too good to be true and is really wise for her age. That being said, she is a wanna be actress and she is model gorgeous; so I’m always thinking that she married Don to get ahead. I don’t trust her character yet. I think she’ll leave Don once he gets too old and even more curmudgeonly. I’m still trying to picture Don hanging out with her young acting friends. I’m having a hard time seeing that go smoothly. I’m a total Eeyore when it comes to Megan.

    • VanessaDK

      Thank you for pointing out the misuse of Betty this season. I find it very hard to draw a line between new and old Betty. It seems like old Betty would have become anorexic from unhappiness. More in keeping with her personality, but much harder to do with makeup.

      • Paigealicious

         That’s a really good point…

      • juliamargaret

        Anorexia and compulsive overeating are really two sides of the same coin. Obsession with food.

        • ballerinawithagun

          You are correct. I’m thin when I’m happy, overeat when I’m depressed. My sister is just the opposite, can’t eat and throws up when she is stressed, wants to eat “fun” food when she’s happy.

        • http://twitter.com/fashunroadkill Chelle

          Anorexia relates to obsession with control. It has very little to do with food itself – obession with food is a side effect. Compulsive overeating is directly related to food.

          • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

            I don’t know that I agree with that entirely. Compulsive overeating is often an emotional thing.

            • Aurumgirl

              It is an emotional thing, and it is also about perfectionism.  Both compulsive overeating and anorexia hinge on perfectionism, and it is particularly the idea that one has failed to be perfect which fuels either behaviour.  I think people go one way when they’re in an environment where others have usually rewarded their perfectionism and encouraged their efforts (so they’re encouraged to try harder); or they go the other way when they’re used to an environment where others have aimed to punish their inability to succeed at whatever is tried (so they continually berate or punish in the belief that this kind of discipline forces one to succeed).  Two  sides of the same coin.

          • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

             Disagree. Food – whether its being eaten or not eaten – is the means by which other issues are dealt with, or avoided.

          • Sweetbetty

             Are you saying that people who compulsively overeat do it just because they like the food?  Nah, it can be as emotion driven as any other compulsive behavior.

            • http://twitter.com/fashunroadkill Chelle

              Can be, I don’t know much about over eating to be honset. But I do know anorexia and it is not “obession with food” as the OP made it out to be. So I disagree with them being the same side of the coin simply because anorexia isn’t about food.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

        When she spit the whipped cream out into the sink, I wondered if they were going to starting her on a path to bulimia.

        • ballerinawithagun

          That is entirely possible.

        • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

           I don’t know, I think anyone who has ever been on a diet has done that at least once.

        • Qitkat

          I really hope they are not going down that road. It’s such a trope for kids and guys to do (squirting it directly in their mouth from the can), that uptight Betty doing it was really just funny. And the spitting out was just disgust with herself. *What the hell am I doing?*

          • http://annequichante.wordpress.com/ Anne

            That moment made me think of Don recording his Sno-Ball ideas into the dictaphone and just going, “Oh god, not that.”

        • Vodeeodoe

           I’m really hoping she doesn’t go back to the doctor to get weight loss pills and get lost down that rabbit hole.

          • sarahjane1912

            Oh I don’t know — *winks* — I kinda like drugged-up Betty. Remember what a ball she had when she was giving birth to Gene?

    • Frank_821

      AS heinous and terrible a thing Betty did, I couldn’t help but sympathize. It really was bad enough for her to see Don’s pretty, young new wife. But to see Don do an apparent 180 and give everything to this marriage (Manhattan, support for her career, attention, fidelity, honesty) that he was suppose to give to their marriage must have been pretty galling.

      That scene with henry in the kitchen I think really highlighted what a lousy husband Don was to Betty. Don never would have initiated such a confessional with her. Never try to unburden himself on her. And the fact that Betty made a sincere attempt to be supportive and make Henry feel better shows she and Don could have had a good marriage.

      Yes Ginsberg was acting like a total shit. He is a very talented and could have an amazing career but he really was becoming very arrogant. Those negative traits that made Peggy wary to hire him have come to roost. That boy needs to learn to play the game and show others some respect. Peggy and Stan weren’t exactly feelings sorry for Ginsberg when Don usurped his ideas. 

      Sure the bulk of the ads Don looked at at the beginning came from Ginsberg by merit  but I am sure there is some truth to Don’s statement that “peggy must have really been buried with heinz”. Peggy is also very talented and Peggy not getting to work on these ads may have something to do with her struggling to pick up the slack left by Don.

      Y’know, part of me realized I am getting a little tired of all the attention onto Megan. I dont mind the character but I would rather see more attention given to Lane, Harry and Joan

      • lee66132000

        ["Y'know, part of me realized I am getting a little tired of all the attention onto Megan. I dont mind the character but I would rather see more attention given to Lane, Harry and Joan."]

        I feel the same.

      • Jennifer Coleman

        I get the feeling Peggy, Stan & the rest of the crew will not aggressively badmouth Ginsberg, but they won’t protect him when he antagonizes Don or the other higher ups either. Right now, they are quietly watching him dig a deeper hole.

        I had high hopes for Betty when she made that supportive statement to Harry in the kitchen, even if it was parroting WW. She made a halfstep forward, but took 2 steps back when she had to deal with her unsaid feelings about Megan. Maybe ihad she has come a little more clean in the WW meeting instead of making that generalized, foggy statement about having a bad week, she could’ve let some of those toxic feelings go.

      • UrsNY

        There’s no reason to “play the game” if he can never win. You only play, if you can share the rewards of winning. Ginsberg’s Jewish, so they will never let him win. Ginsberg already knows this. Peggy’s finally figuring this out too. She’s a woman, so they’ll never let her win. Those two are there for the partners to siphon off their energy and talent, but they have zero intention of operating on a level playing field. I can almost guarantee that Ginsberg will prep his portfolio after last night. Peggy should do the same, but she’s been stymied by false hope in the “play the game” mentality. I’m hoping Roger’s flippant comment woke her up.

        • Sweetbetty

           Even though Peggy and Ginzberg bump heads, they each see and respect the other’s talent so maybe they’ll take off together, maybe start their own agency where there won’t be anyone to hold them down.  And since Peggy and Ken have a “pact”, he’ll come along.

          • girliecue

            That’s what I was thinking too. Ginsberg is definitely going to leave – it’s not in him to have his ideas played with or ignored. Stan, I think, would follow Peggy to the ends of the earth, and Ken is also rebellious about SCDP curbing his creative side so it wouldn’t surprise me if he jumped ship at the first chance. I also think if they do start their own agency, it’ll signify the of the ending of the series.

            • formerlyAnon

               Pretty much agree. The ending in my head: first the above, then they get enough business to recruit Lane who manages to bean count them victoriously through a crisis. Along the way to getting the new firm stable and established, Peggy splits with Abe because the job comes first. Lane is conveniently divorcing & dating Joan by this point and tries to set up a job for her – it looks like she’ll never do it – but then Peggy starts feeling out Don about joining forces – there’s half a season in the who-is-alpha posturing among the creatives in this scenario – Joan is advising Don more than anyone at the new firm realizes – there is some dramatic event – success or failure – at SCDP – and the series ends with everyone able to debate over whether Don joins the new firm or not and whether he survives & is successful or if he is circling the drain.

            • Sweetbetty

               And in five years there will be a “Mad Men” movie, a la Sex & the City, though I hope they do a better job.

            • http://www.wordydoodles.com WordyDoodles

               This reminded me of when Michael started his own paper company on The Office and the hilarious hijinks that ensued.

            • girliecue

              God I used to love The Office!

            • Anna Bergman

              The creative team all had the same response to Ginsberg ranting about his ad.    It isn’t his ad.  It’s like Don said to Peggy in “The Suitcase” the work belongs to the agency and the boss can choose what he wants.  And Don’s pitch sold.   Ginsberg may need to really pull off something good.  When Don commented about Peggy being buried by Heinz it sounded like he had just realized that.  Don is back from love vacation.  Not having Megan around the office is good for him. 

        • Spicytomato1

          So well said, that is so true. Gives me flashback to my own days as a female in an agency. I worked my ass off and worked my way up, achieving a decent level of respect, but I eventually hit a much lower ceiling than my male counterparts who automatically got in to the boys club where the real deals happened and the real power was. UGH. Over 10 years later I am still so happy to be out of there!

        • Frank_821

          Oh I agree they will never have a level playing field, but his own behavior and cocky attitude exasperates the situation and will put strain on any work environment he’s in. As someone noted in another comment, Peggy and Stan are not exactly going to put their necks on the line for him-the way he’s acting. I just think back to the guy in the earlier episodes who was desperate to get a job at their agency and who was incredibly grateful for the chance. It’s not even been 6 months. What happened to that guy? While he’s bold and creative now, he’s too young to realize he’ll get his periods where he can’t produce either or there will be a young Ginsberg showing up on his tail.

          • Sweetbetty

             Ah, yes, just like Phoebe in “All About Eve”.

          • UrsNY

            After 15+ years observing the 21c version of this from the front lines, I can testify that many older management men hit that “please show highly visible ‘gratitude’” button REALLY hard, still. Often to an insulting degree. It makes them magnets for mediocre suck-ups. They wind up in middling companies that self-inflate morale with spinning stats. “We had a .4% increase last quarter. Go team!”

            That’s what SCDP is becoming. If Ginsberg and Peggy recognize their worth, they’ll jump ship. Creative talent seeks appreciation, and won’t stay at a place they don’t get it. Once their creative zenith passes, they’ll may be a director or shop owner. Hopefully, one saavy enough to keep talented on board. If not, then that’s when they settle, non-disruptively, into mediocre companies, passing time until retirement.

            • filmcricket

              “They wind up in middling companies that self-inflate morale with spinning stats.” This, or they take once-great companies and turn them into middling ones because they get rid of all the people who aren’t yes-men. I’m living that right now and it’s so frustrating.

            • MK03

              Female managers do it too. I had a manager once who, when I applied for a promotion, actually laughed at me and proceeded to give me a laundry list of why I wasn’t a fit for it (none of which were based on experience or ability, but on the fact that I am quiet and introverted). The kicker was when she said, “I discussed your application with the rest of management, and they all agreed with my assessment.” Then, when I got upset despite my best efforts, she incredulously asked, “Why are you crying? I’m just being honest!” I think she really and truly thought I would fall to my knees in gratitude for the “advice” she was handing out for free. 

            • UrsNY

              Damn, what a bitch. Obviously she was threatened… and emotionally stunted. My sympathies. The economy has stuck people in horrible situations. I swear, the first signs of a real and thorough recovery will bring an employee exodus at so many places.

              Actually, I have a woman VP who’s the embodiment of stat spinning mediocracy. She’s based in a different state, so I (luckily) rarely interact with her or her henchwomen. I also have a male manager who’s worse, but maybe that’s because I’m forced to interact with him more. Although it happens with both sexes, in my personal experience, male managers of a certain age almost always bring a condescending, if not openly hostile, sexist tone to these situations.

            • MissusBee

              I hear you. My agency boss (female) told me I had an attitude problem because I never stayed for drinks with the team anymore and needed to ‘lighten up’. She seemed to make no mental connection between this and the fact I was EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT at the time. I didn’t say anything about that, but replied that I got my energy and inspiration from down time, not getting hammered and kidding around. It was like I was speaking Chinese. Some people are assholes.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12712273 K Michael Short Jr

          Go occupy some park.

      • cluecat

        Lane has been busy being the evil character on Fringe!

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          Aha! I was just about to ask if he was filming a movie or something. Thanks!

        • CarolinLA

          In an effort to appease the budget Nazis at the network, shows will purposely leave one principal actor out of each episode.  Actors’ contracts are normally drawn up so that the actor gets paid for all episodes produced, even if the actor does not appear.  However, they started reworking that concept a few years ago in order to keep shows on the air by paying some principal actors that are lower on the cast list only for the episodes in which they appear.  Those actors are usually given some notice so that they can try to get another gig during the time off.  

        • Vodeeodoe

           I love, love LOVE that show!

        • Linlighthouse

          David Robert Jones. I miss Fringe. And where is Trudy these days? She’s gone to Greendale Community College.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YAMNQMUGFM4NNSPAQLZRODSD5I Angela

      I loved the Weight Watchers scenes also! I’m surprised they didn’t have Betty going to Gloria Marshall’s to stand in one of those “jiggle” belts machines…I can vividly remember my mom doing that, I got to go with her and sit in the corner and watch. Lots of machines that supposedly jiggled, squeezed, and pummeled the fat right off you! There was nothing as vulgar as actual aerobics in those days…

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

        My mom and her neighbor would meet next door and watch Jack Lalanne. That’s what I want to see-Betty watching Jack Lalanne. 

        • ballerinawithagun

          Jack Lalanne was the first exercising most women had seen back then.

          • cluecat

            I don’t know.  My mom is the equivalent of Megan’s age.  We were talking the other day about current parenting trends – helicopter parents, attachment parenting, and how it’s kind of like sacrificial motherhood.  My mom was saying in her day it was more sacrificial housekeeping.  There was quasi-cult of the homemaker that came up in the 40s and 50s and lasted into the 80s.  

            I was born in the 70s and remember my Mom had a whole housework schedule.  She did laundry every day – up and down two flights of stairs – and had a full, balanced meal for six on the table every night, with dessert, and then did the dishes mostly by herself.  Our sheets were changed twice weekly, the floors were constantly vacuumed and polished, and our house was kept in such a state that if neighbors or friends stopped in randomly (and they usually did) it was perfectly organized and spotless.   In the summer she kept a vegetable garden and spent days canning.  We had no air conditioning, or little conveniences like garage door openers or table top appliances.  Vacuum cleaners, irons, etc. were a lot heavier back then.

            So maybe women didn’t formally exercise by running on treadmills at the gym or doing pilates, but, they were pretty active.

            • ccinnc

              I was born in the 50s and had the same kind of mom.  She also worked full-time and sewed – our own clothes + our Barbies’ clothes.  But she rarely spent time with us or connected with us emotionally.  OTOH, my house looks like sh*t, and I can count on one hand the number of swim meets, soccer games, volleyball games, etc. that I missed when my kids were growing up. There’s a balance there, somewhere. 

              Mom never exercised either except for gardening.  It was all about the diet/Weight Watchers.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

              Wow it’s like we were separated at birth.

            • Spicytomato1

              So true. It is amazing how much being a “housewife” has changed. Most moms I know now, who can afford to stay at home full time, employ people to clean their house and do their gardening, leaving them free to exercise and play tennis and “lunch.” And they’re definitely not cooking meals for their families every single night even though they conceivably could. So different from the hard, mind-numbingly boring work of that era. I seriously get why so many women turned to “mother’s little helpers” to get through those days!

            • Sweetbetty

               And thus part of the reason for the obesity epidemic of today.

            • girliecue

              Homekeeping definitely burns calories! I just joined Weight Watchers a couple of months ago and was pleasantly surprised how many Activity points they give to housecleaning. I love having an incentive to lose weight AND keep my house cleaner!

            • alula_auburn

              My mom showed me a “homemaker’s diary” she won in a home ec contest in high school (circa 61-62).  The schedules are amazing, and definitely labor intensive. . .as is the recommendation to exercise 10 minutes 3 times a week, but set aside 90 minutes a day for a beauty regimen (to keep the man happy, y’know.)

            • cluecat

              hahahaha!  It’s important to greet your man after a hard day of work looking your best.  (You’re supposed to make him a drink, too!)  ;)

            • sarahjane1912

              Ha ha ha … Burt Bacharach springs to mind …

              Hey, little girl,Comb your hair, fix your make-up.Soon he will open the door.Don’t think becauseThere’s a ring on your finger,You needn’t try any moreFor wives should always be lovers, too.Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.I’m warning you.Day after day,There are girls at the office,And men will always be men.Don’t send him offWith your hair still in curlers.You may not see him again.For wives should always be lovers, too.Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.He’s almost here.Hey, little girlBetter wear something pretty,something you’d wear to go to the city.And dim all the lights,Pour the wine, start the music.Time to get ready for love.Oh, time to get ready,Time to get ready,Time to get readyFor love. 

            • Qitkat

              I wish I could remember the title but someone in the seventies wrote a book in which they advised meeting your husband at the door after a hard day of work dressed in nothing but saran wrap!

            • sarahjane1912

              Oh my memory of that came from ‘Fried Green Tomatoes’. 

              Didn’t the Kathy Bates character read about it in a magazine [she was the one trying to lose weight, making friends in the nursing home, and hearing about the Whistle Stop Cafe] and then ask her husband [from whom she'd grown apart] what he’d think if he came home from work and SHE was dressed only in saran wrap? And then she tried it? Very funny. Sad, but funny.

            • Sweetbetty

               No, the saran wrap advice to women predates that movie by a decade or more.

            • sarahjane1912

              Yup, the movie came out in 1991 so it’s more than a few decades. I was just saying that my memory of the saran wrap ‘dress advice’ came from that movie, ’tis all. :-)

            • greenwich_matron

              Total Woman. It made quite an impression on me when they interviewed her on 60 Minutes.

            • AZU403

              My friends and I called her “the totalled woman”.

            • Sweetbetty

               Hah!  I remember that.  Phyllis Diller used it in her comedy routine.  She said when she did it her husband, Fang, looked at her and said, “Leftovers again?”. 

            • sarahjane1912

              Oh hysterical! What a great line.

            • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

              Is there anything better than Phyllis Diller and Fang?

          • Sweetbetty

             There was also an exercise show back then hosted by Debbie Drake, a cute blond woman in a leotard.  I’ll bet a lot of men watched that show ;->

        • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

           Me too. My Mom, who was 38 in 1966 had an exercise album of gentle calisthenics as I recall. You balanced yourself using a chair and did squats, etc. And also Jack Lalanne on tv. They didn’t go to gyms or jog. Maybe at most they stepped up taking brisk walks with the kids or dogs.

        • Spicytomato1

          Watching Jack Lalanne (while snarfing Bugles)? Or actually imitating him and getting active?

      • ballerinawithagun

        Yes!

      • b starry

         My mom has stated that my grandmother faithfully exercised to Jack Lalanne (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WsMcfxCw2g)

      • Vodeeodoe

         My sister had a Barbie gym that had one of those waist jiggling machines in it. Youch!

    • Jennifer Coleman

      I don’t know if I would use the word jealousy to sum up the episode as much as the word threatened. Everyone was threatened by the younger & possibly more talented version of themselves. And their responses got varying results: Don might’ve won this round, but Ginsberg will probably prevail or leave the firm, which is losing its relevance; Betty, because she really has no leverage other than Don’s secrets, loses instantly because Megan is onto her tactics. Roger wins because Jane let him win, which is interesting. She’s clearly not over him & falls for his declarations of how beautiful she is, vs his love for her. Megan’s actually threatened by her own wealth vs her career choice, not her friend, I think.

      • girliecue

        One of the most valuable things I learned in grad school was the simple definition of envy vs. jealousy. Envy is wanting what someone else has and jealousy is being afraid someone else will take what you have. We tend to use the two words interchangeably, but if you look at the events in last night’s episode, it’s interesting how perception of a character’s actions can change based on whether you see it as envy or as jealousy.

        • AZU403

          Great definition. Jealousy is also believing that someone else has something that you think should be yours.

      • the_archandroid

        I think Roger actually loses, though, because it wasn’t Roger vs. Jane, it was Roger vs. roguishly handsome and rich young Jewish man who wanted to sleep with Jane. I think at that dinner Roger was feeling his age and sexual irrelevance, and he used Jane to recapture it, not even paying attention to her very valid complaint of wanting to have a fresh start.  
        As for Megan, I agree completely, it’s totally (rich) Megan vs. (bohemian) Megan.

        • Jennifer Coleman

          If Jane was on her ‘game’, she would’ve not allowed Roger up to the apartment & let him wallow in his obsolescence. I think the young guy was more an accessory to his general threat from Pete, but more easily acted on. His win of Jane for the night was temporary. He realized that sleeping with her was pointless, but since Roger acts without really feeling empathy for those who care about him, that’s as far as his self-realization goes. His first wife realizes this, Joan probably does also, hopefully Jane will get there soon, too.

          • sarahjane1912

            Exactly. I have to say, I was pretty annoyed when Jane was so angry with Roger The Morning After because after all, she DID let him come up and let him kiss her [and so forth]. Seemed to me as if she wanted yet another thing for which she could blame Roger.

    • KaileeM

      Ginsberg is a little shit, but I absolutely love his character. It takes a lot of nerve to approach your boss in that manner. His talent is on the rise, and Don’s is on the decline. It took Don all day to come up with an okay idea, whereas Ginsberg had a whole folder of just doodles that were all quite good.

      The thing that really stuck with me this episode was how sweet and open Don is with Megan. I couldn’t decide what Betty found the most unsettling. The fact that Megan was living the cosmopolitan life she always wanted, the love note she found or the fact that Don had told Megan all about Anna.

      Also, Kiernan Shipka is a force to be reckoned with. Oftentimes I find child actors to be distracting. They come off as too precocious or too worldly. But, she has been fantastic this season and I can’t wait to see how her character continues to develop.

      • sweetlilvoice

        Betty was testing Don to see if he had been honest with Megan about his past. She was hoping for a major fight. I was a bit surprised that Megan knew about Anna, but it’s a good thing. I still miss Anna…she was so kind and open.

        • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

           I think Megan is meant to be our Anna now… one character who is not cynical, conniving, underhanded, or manipulative like the rest of them are. The show needs at least one.

          • sweetlilvoice

            Interesting thought…

          • Qitkat

             Thanks for putting it this way. I have not been on board with thinking
            that Megan is written too perfectly. She may be young, but I think she
            is well aware that it’s difficult to be in the positions she
            inhabits—second wife, stepmother, career driven, loving a very flawed
            husband. By nature she is a sweet person, and there is nothing wrong
            with that, or shallow. However, I suspect that there is more to Megan
            than meets the eye, that secrets will be revealed in the future. Look at
            her often odd interactions with her parents.

        • Anna Bergman

           I always hope they have more flashbacks with Anna.  I would have like to see more of their relationship, like when it showed their Christmas

      • Sweetbetty

         Sally (Kiernan) scared me a little when she warned Megan not to tell Don about the Anna conversation, ending it by slitting her eyes and saying, “I *mean* it”. 

        • Vodeeodoe

           I still cannot believe she got away with talking to an adult like that.

          • sarahjane1912

            I KNOW! My goodness, had I spoken to ANY adult like that at Sally’s age … well, it doesn’t bear thinking about. I know Sally was nursing a whole wodge of resentment after Betty’s poisonous tactical misfire, and that Megan is the ‘stepmother’ but wow, attitude much?!

            • Sweetbetty

               I know what my punishment would have been, and I know what punishment I’d have laid on my kids, and now my grandkids.  I wonder what Don’s reaction would have been if he had witnessed it (inadvertently, of course, since Sally wouldn’t have tried that with him around).  On Inside the Actors Studio last night they showed the clip of Sally when she “ran away” to Don’s office.  Betty had come to get her and Fay was trying to convince her to go out to the lobby.  Sally gave some sassy answer and Don grabbed her roughly by the arm and started dragging her out the door.  I have no doubt he was probably taken out behind the woodshed as a child and spanking was still considered acceptable punishment for children in the 60s so I don’t think Sally would have fared very well if she spoke like that within Don’s range of hearing.

    • Spicytomato1

      So was Don planning on coming up with his own Sno Cone concept all along…or did it not occur to him until he peeked into Ginsberg’s folder? I actually like Peggy’s New Yorker cartoon idea and was irritated at how everyone dismissed it, it was much better than Don’s crappy devil thing. 

      And I let out a serious gasp when Don left Ginsberg’s boards in the cab. I knew he was feeling threatened by his talent but I didn’t think he’d go that far. I loved how Ginsberg marched into the elevator to confront Don. It will be interesting to see how their dynamic continues to evolve.

      I laughed at Peggy’s whipped cream moment, too, it totally reminded me of my mom who was always on diets when I was growing up and she was never happy with her weight. It was all about deprivation back then, fitness and moderation and a healthy lifestyle were never part of the equation back then. And is it me but does this iteration of Betty look so much like Moonlighting-era Cybil Shepard?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

        To me, Don’s competitiveness overcame him when he saw Ginsberg’s folder. I’ve had that feeling in art classes seeing someone’s really great work, and fighting the need to try something like it and do it better. It rarely generates anything worthwhile with that kind of motivation. 

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        Leaving them in the cab is one of those anvil-on-the-head moments, wasn’t it? MAD MEN wouldn’t have done something as obvious in previous seasons. And then the scene between Harry and Michael, where Michael thinks one thing but Harry is talking about something else? Very sitcom.

        But still, MAD MEN at their lamest is still better than anything else at its best.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

          That happens with Harry all the time, except he’s usually the one that doesn’t know what’s going on.

      • Sweetbetty

         Yes!  At one point last night I thought, “What is Cybil Shepard doing on Mad Men?”, as I was fighting to stay awake.  And while Cybil is a beautiful woman, I always thought she had an odd nose, then Don yelled last night that Betty “should keep her fat nose out of things”. 

        • Vodeeodoe

          I’m pretty sure Don was making a sh*tty reference to Betty’s weight gain.

          • Sweetbetty

             Absolutely.

      • LaLeidi

         I agree that she is looking like Cybil Shepard.

      • AZU403

        Especially the hair!

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      Team Betty.

    • http://annequichante.wordpress.com/ Anne

      I thought Ginsberg in Roger’s office was hilarious.  “You assume I’m Jewish!”  And watching Betty at the Weight Watchers’ meeting made me feel like a part of history! ;)

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

        Having Betty at Weight Watchers is a far better endorsement for me than those awful ads with Jennifer Hudson.

        • Sweetbetty

           I don’t know; I was wondering if the episode did WW more harm than good.  At least it showed that they’ve been around for a long time which would translate as being successful at what they do.

          • sweetlilvoice

            I think that the episode definitely showed how much dieting and eating has changed…loved the little scale. You can buy a fancier version of that scale (it’s electronic) if you want but you don’t have to. One great thing about WW, is that’s it’s been around longer than most weight loss plans and has the data to back it up. They are also constantly evolving the plan to in order to take into account current food trends and beliefs. 

      • KaileeM

         Yes, Ginsberg had some great lines last night!

        • Sweetbetty

           And the little guy has guts.  Not only did he stand up to his boss, but he stood up to a guy who is much bigger physically.  If that scene was the begging of a Law & Order episode we might have seen Ginsber’s dead body when the elevator doors opened.

      • Spicytomato1

        That was one of my favorite scenes, somewhat of a retread of when Roger asked Peggy to help him. Those two obviously have great acting chemistry.

    • annrr

      I am on Weight Watchers right now so I absolutely loved this episode. Especially the Redi Whip. Every  woman on a diet has done that. Can’t wait to read the Mad Style about all the plaid this week! Lo must have been in heaven.

    • sweetlilvoice

      I’m a lifetime WW member, so I really enjoyed seeing how the meetings started. The clothes were to die for. However, I wouldn’t want to be weighed in front of the whole group! The meetings really are like therapy and I think that is something Betty really needs and will never get. Her jerk shrink from season 1-2 ruined that for her.

      I would love to see more Joan, Lane and the rest of the cast. I loved Betty wandering around the apartment and her seeing Megan undressed. And her face when she ate that stuffing-so poignant.  She is truly miserable, always is.

      I’m a big Dark Shadows fan (just saw the movie this weekend) so I loved that little in-joke.

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        Crazy timing! Do you think the Dark Shadows reference was coincidence, or clever product placement?

        • sweetlilvoice

          I can’t decide…it was a huge cult show. Maybe one of the writers is a fan?

      • Anna Bergman

         Those scenes were great!  The weigh ins  in front of the group may have been humiliating but at least the leader was compassionate and encouraging.   That’s not always the case.

        • sarahjane1912

          The leader WAS nice, wasn’t she? She didn’t say anything if someone had maintained or put on weight [as far as I could see] and always said ‘May I?’ with an encouraging smile before sharing someone’s loss with the group, even if it was a mere half a pound. And where I come from, we think in kilos and grams [lol] and half a pound is 226g [just under a couple of sticks of butter to US viewers!]. Sorry, but that ain’t much [even though I admit that any weight loss would be gratefully received by those trying to lose it]. :-)

    • ErinnF

      FOR GOD’S SAKE, PUT SOME SHOES ON, MEGAN!

      Her constant bare feet are annoying me. We get it. She’s young and artsy. They might as well just stick a beret on her while they’re at it. 

      • ballerinawithagun

        I always wear shoes, even at home and friends and family make fun of me all the time. You are either a shoe person or you are not.  

        • girliecue

          I have two closets full of constantly changing shoes, and shoe store clerks know me by name, but when I’m home I’m barefoot. I also ask my houseguests to take off their shoes (unless I’m having a party). I want people to be comfortable in my house and it also keeps my floors cleaner and in good shape longer. Okay, yes, I’m lazy and hate housework too, but I just like being barefoot at home.

          • Sweetbetty

            LOL.  I’m glad you qualified by saying you don’t ask your party guests to remove their shoes; all I could think of was the Sex & the City episode where Carrie’s expensive shoes disappeared.

        • girliecue

          I have two closets full of constantly changing shoes, and shoe store clerks know me by name, but when I’m home I’m barefoot. I also ask my houseguests to take off their shoes (unless I’m having a party). I want people to be comfortable in my house and it also keeps my floors cleaner and in good shape longer. Okay, yes, I’m lazy and hate housework too, but I just like being barefoot at home.

        • buildmeatower

          I’m another shoe person. The only time I’m not wearing shoes is when I have no clean socks, and even then I usually slip on a pair of sandals. Sometimes I’ll stay in socks when I haven’t left the house all day, but that’s pretty rare. On the other hand I know people who are barefoot as much as possible and hate shoes. It’s a personal thing.

      • Sobaika

        I’m perpetually bare-footed when I’m at home. Is it that weird?

        • Jessi03

          I never wear shoes at home!  I leave them at the front door.  Sometimes I wear slippers, but it’s mostly thick fuzzy socks.

        • sweetlilvoice

          I never wear shoes either…I don’t want to track crap all over the carpet.

        • http://twitter.com/Elissa_Malcohn Elissa Malcohn

          Bare feet or fuzzy socks for me.

        • TheDivineMissAnn

           Not in my book.  I rarely wear shoes; my husband is rarely without them.

          I have to laugh at this discussion.  The first thing Mum took off when she got home from work was her shoes; the second thing she took off immediately after that was her girdle!

          • Sweetbetty

             With me it was coat (if wearing one), shoes, top, bra.  I couldn’t get out of a bra fast enough.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

            I take off my rings and my watch, and my shoes. 

        • P M

          No; it just means you’re brown ;P. I am too, so I’m allowed to say that :D

          • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

            I’m utterly white and I never wear shoes inside, never have. They’re the first things off as soon as I get in the door.

            • sarahjane1912

              I know loads and LOADS of households where it’s customary to leave your shoes at the front door [particularly where I live, in the Middle East] for cultural/health reasons. That said, I’m a shoe-wearer in the villa, if only because we have no carpets [and few rugs] and all-marble floors. That said, I do only wear ‘inside’ shoes and keep the flashy heels for outside only LOL!

        • terekirkland

           Not weird at all! You should see how many pairs of shoes are lined up in my front room. I hate wearing shoes—even though I do love cute ones. I sometimes take the trash to the curb in bare feet. ;)

      • sweatpantalternative

        Last week the imagery seemed to be more about Megan as a housewife, but I really think it is highlighting how much more casual society is becoming. Most people don’t wear shoes inside their house anymore, but that clearly wasn’t the case 50 years ago, and we bucked the trend somewhere along the line.

        • Spicytomato1

          Yes and the contrast between her and Betty, when she came in to the apartment in her stuffy coat and fussy scarf and stiff hair, could not be more stark.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

        Remember, Megan has white carpet. I didn’t notice if the kids were wearing shoes but I suspect not. My sister has white carpet in part, not all, of her house and we aren’t allowed shoes in those rooms, nor are the pets allowed in them.

        • Sweetbetty

           I’ve never seen Don remove his shoes when he comes in the door, though.

          After their fight/sex scene when they were lying on the carpet Megan commented that they’d have to replace it and that it was probably a mistake to have gotten it in the first place.  Don agreed and said he went along with it because he thought it was what she wanted.  After Bobby with Emile’s fountain pen I thought for sure they’d finally change it but they haven’t yet.  I wonder if we’ll ever see anything but white carpeting in that living room.

          • sarahjane1912

            The carpet is starting to look grubbier too, I noticed, particularly when Betty was scanning the room when she visited. It was pristine before the first ep party, cleaned up after that, spoiled by the fountain pen cleaning incident and now … well now it definitely looks ‘lived in’. Not sure whether this has some deep underlying reason but hey ho, who knows? Perhaps Betty didn’t only notice the fact that the apartment was lovely and modern, with a great view, but also that it wasn’t as clean as SHE would keep HER house [well at least in the Carla years!].

      • Qitkat

        Oh, for goodness sake, I’ve kicked off my shoes all my life, the minute I enter my house, and often someone elses. 

        • TheDivineMissAnn

           Oh yes!  The area by the door where everyone comes in at our house is chock full of shoes!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509246373 Elizabeth Ross

        Maybe it’s because I’m Canadian but I don’t find that odd. I find it weird that people wear shoes inside.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ande-Cook/100000183664272 Ande Cook

        Midge owns the beret.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

      That was a pretty depressing Thanksgiving in the Francis house.  Just the 5 of them in that dimly lit room.  No family dinner at Grandma Pauline’s this year?  (yes, it was awkward with Betty’s disciplining Sally, but it didn’t seem so isolated)

      • J MN

        I think Grandma Pauline is probably still at home with help or in a convalescent hospital because of her broken ankle.  

        • Sweetbetty

           Or in a rehab facility drying out.

      • sweetlilvoice

        I wanted Grandma Pauline there too with her foot propped up complaining. ..where’s my secanol?

      • Sweetbetty

         The Francis house = depressing.  Did you notice that sad, sad kitchen?  It doesn’t look like it was updated since the house was built, except maybe for the addition of indoor plumbing.  Betty’s Ossining kitchen was miles above this one.

        • Spicytomato1

          No kidding. And Betty’s envy in checking out the mod Draper pad was palpable.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            I was just watching some episodes from past seasons and whenever Betty mentions Manhattan she’s wistful – I have a sense she would much rather have stayed in the city and misses her life there, but feels she ‘had’ to move to the suburbs for the kids.

          • http://typicalgirlink.wordpress.com/ Dorothy Damage

             It made me feel so bad for her. It was only a few years ago that she
            was rocking uber-glam proto-Mod Italian fashion in Rome, and now she’s
            basically consigned to suburban decline whilst her asshole ex who made
            her move to the suburbs in order to create this ideal of the American
            Dream gets to live in a swank pad with the new wife. I can understand
            her depression, anger and bitterness, even though I hate how she deals
            with it.

            • formerlyAnon

               Yup. The times allowed her very little leeway to try to impose HER vision of the perfect family (if hers really WAS any different than the life in the burbs – you can aspire to something that makes you  miserable when you get it.).

              And she didn’t and doesn’t have even the most rudimentary of the emotional tools for dealing positively with her life.

    • juliamargaret

      Excellent recap as always, TLO. 

      I’m wondering about Jane and Roger’s encounter. I think Roger may have just gotten Jane pregnant, given that it wasn’t mentioned in the last episode that Jane wanted a baby. There’s a good chance that she could be off birth control and that didn’t look like safe sex. She stops Roger for a moment and then lets the moment pass. I would not be surprised if she was about to tell him that she wasn’t on the pill, and then decided not to. 

      • Judy_J

        That thought occurred to me as well. 

      • sweetlilvoice

        Ditto. He got Joan pregnant the same way.

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          Which is why I will be very disappointed if Jane gets pregnant.

          • Sweetbetty

             Yes, we can’t have Roger just going around accidentally impregnating women, even if the women do want a baby.

        • LJ39

          Joan and Roger were mugged and following that, had the encounter that resulted in her pregnancy, right? I don’t really see how that’s the same.

          • Anna Bergman

             Their having sex in a doorway right after being mugged was ridiculous

      • ballerinawithagun

        Yes, I thought she was going to say that she wasn’t on the Pill but she changed her mind. Maybe she does want a baby.

        • formerlyAnon

           Or, Roger’s baby, specifically.

        • asympt

           Pretty sure it was just her wanting to ask him not to ruin the new apartment for her.

      • msdamselfly

         I thought the same–like she paused to tell him they needed protection and then changed her mind

        • sarahjane1912

          .. which, if Jane DOES fall pregnant, would be one of the most ham-handed moves the MM writers could make, to be honest. After all, we know Roger’s boys can swim; we really do not need him impregnating another woman on the show. If anyone is going to get preggers, I suspect Megan, but I hope she’s using protection [just like I hope she can make her acting career work for her, but that's another story!].

    • VanessaDK

      So…with the title (assuming it is coincidence that it cam out with the movie debut)…

      Are they all vampires?  Living off the life blood of others?

      • Sobaika

        I think the soap opera scene Megan and her friend were rehearsing was from Dark Shadows.

        • Sweetbetty

           It absolutely was.  The mention of “Collins” and “Collinsport”, the TV show debuted in 1966, no doubt at all the friend had gotten a job on the original TV show.  It was campy as hell, thus Megan’s disdain for it, but it eventually had a huge cult following.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            I was definitely Dark Shadows (and note the title of the episode if you have any doubts). However, I thought it didn’t get “scary” (Megan’s term) until about a year or so in – when a ghost was introduced to up the ratings? It would have been on for less than a year in November 1966.

            In any case – I love the idea of Sally watching Dark Shadows!

            • Munchkn

               Dark Shadows premiered on June 27, 1966.  It did not have any supernatural elements until about 6 months later.  Barnabas Collins did not appear until 1967.

              My aunt met Jonathon Frid once upon a time and had her picture snapped with him.  Sadly, he passed away very soon after he and some of his old castmates filmed a cameo for the new film.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

              That’s interesting (and love the story of your aunt!). So is this an anachronism? Was Dark Shadows “scary” at all before Barnabas was introduced?

              RIP Jonathan Frid.

            • Munchkn

               Dark Shadows did get scary before Barnabas.  The writers had introduced some ghosts into the storyline about the same time as this episode of MM is set.  Jonathon came about 6 months later and was only supposed to be on Dark Shadows for 13 weeks.  The audience loved Barnabas though.

      • ballerinawithagun

        Even though the writing is more obvious, I agree with your analogy. There are still more layers than we initially realize.

    • LANDRU3000

      Regarding Don’s “I don’t think of you at all.” comment, didn’t Peggy use that comment when she was firing that guy in an earlier season?  
      Seems to me, she tells him he’s out and he says “Yeah, well, we’ll see what Don thinks of this”  and she replied “Don doesn’t think of you at all”  Or something like that.

      • sweetlilvoice

        Don doesn’t even know who you are.

        Burn, Peggy, burn!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

        yes! Good recall. 

    • juliamargaret

      Also wanted to say, as someone with an eating disorder, I just couldn’t laugh at Betty’s Reddi-wip moment. I totally see the comedic potential, but I just felt so bad for her. I’d wondered if she was a compulsive eater after the episode where she cheated on Don at the bar and then went home and went straight to the fridge and grabbed a chicken leg. I’m guessing that they aren’t going to keep January Jones in fat suit forever, so it’ll be interesting to see where this goes. 

      • Sweetbetty

         “I’m guessing that they aren’t going to keep January Jones in fat suit forever”             Did we see Fat Betty in July?  It’s now November and she’s lost a *lot* of weight.  She must be doing a good job following WW’s regimen.

        • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

           Actually, I feel like they didn’t figure out Betty’s weight loss “schedule” very well. You’re right, in July she was much larger than here, particularly in the  kitchen shot with Sally in the tan sweater and slim fitted skirt. Yet, when she went to pick up the kids at Don’s apartment, she looked much bigger, particularly in the hall when she was adjusting herself. Her breast size looked quite large (which would come from weight gain, but not that much), but not at all in the above tan sweater, which is much more revealing. So, if she’s lost a decent amount of weight, why has no one mentioned it? It feels like Henry, or the other WW ladies would have been reminding her of her success to date to keep her spirits up. Or, perhaps we’re getting the “Betty’s eye view” of the situation where in her unhappiness she’s incapable of “seeing” her own success (very typical of people with weight problems).

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            My sense was that she’d lost some weight, but not a lot. She didn’t look significantly smaller to me. 

            • Sweetbetty

               Oh, I thought she looked considerably slimmer, more than half-way to her former self.  Most notable was the much less double chin; that chin when we first saw fat Betty was almost comical.

          • greenwich_matron

            You know, I thought the amount of weight she put on wasn’t well thought out either. Between seasons, she must have been packing on two pounds a week for months. I had a thyroid issue which led to lots of emotional binge eating and a low metabolism, and I never gained weight at that rate. I wonder how much thought the writer’s put into it. 

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

              Everybody is different. I’m hypo and I’ve gained that way before.

            • Sweetbetty

               I think there was discussion about this when fat Betty first appeared and many people thought it was inconceivable that she could put on that much weight in such a short time.  I and others who have done it replied that it isn’t hard at all if you’re someone prone to gaining weight, and apparently since Betty was a chubby kid, she is one of us.  I’ve also seen actors interviewed who had to gain weight for a movie role talk about how easy it was to do and how oh, so, difficult it was to take it off afterwards.

            • Anna Bergman

               people can gain or lose weight rapidly with thyroid problems

          • Anna Bergman

             Henry may be afraid to say anything in case it’s wrong.  Women can be super sensitive about their diets even if they aren’t Betty!

    • rowsella

      I really felt sorry for Betty.  Girl is in so much pain.  It was a stupid mean thing to do (the Sally thing) but I am giving her a pass.  After being married to Don and being treated the way he treated her when she really deserved much better–So he has to pay a bit in aggravation, hell, he isn’t paying anything else.  After what he put her through, it is getting off cheap indeed.  I think Don is a real asshole.  I wish she had a good long talk with Mona before that divorce was final.  Sally does do the bitchface snot quite perfectly, doesn’t she?  (“What are you going to do, pretend to cry again?”–boy did she ever hit the mark).

      Overall, I saw Betty actually being a good mother– praising Sally for good grades, helping Bobby get his things organized etc.  Her conversation with Henry.. can anyone ever imagine her having that conversation with Don?  I think she realized that. 

      I also have irrational PerfectMeghanHate now (as does her acting friends, her previous coworkers and soon, her stepdaughter). 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

         And it hasn’t been that long, judging by how young Gene is still.  Betty was raised as a princess, almost literally, promised the world, loses her father, finds out her husband is a liar, has been married before, has another name, is not who he says he is, has been cheating on her, and married a much younger woman and treating that much younger woman with respect and such.  Betty is entitled to use her kids a bit.  Other than through her children, she is powerless.  Don uses the children as well, just differently.

        • Sweetbetty

           Strongly disagree. NO ONE is entitled to use their kids in that way.  I can understand her motive but that in no way excuses her from the damage she is doing to them.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

             It’s not conscious. It is what it is.  It happens. And one person (Betty) should not be demonized for doing what almost every parent on the planet does.  

            • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

              Sorry, but thank heavens many many divorcing/divorced parents do not use their children thusly. Betty’s a shitty mother of the first order, largely due to an epic level of narcissism.

            • deedeegee

              I agree. I wouldn’t say a parent is entitled to use their kids that way but there sure as hell are a lot that do.  Altruistic parenthood isn’t something that comes naturally to everyone, not even to most.

            • Elizabetta1022

              On the contrary, I think Betty was very consciously using her child to get back at her ex. I thought it was brilliant (and a little scary) when Sally turned the tables on Betty so deftly. As others have commented, with parents like those two, that little girl didn’t have much of a chance. (At least initially. I fantasize that Sally will figure it out in college and go on to have a good life.)

              As for Betty, it’s hard not to sympathize. Here’s Megan, a young, beautiful, thin young woman getting “everything she wanted” and more, after Don treated Betty like some kind of stand-in for a perfect wife. 

              Growing up in the ’70s, I saw many, many bitter housewives in the suburbs. So many of them seemed angry and disappointed. Looking back, I think it was an exceedingly hard time to be a woman. Things are better now, but I often marvel at how far we *haven’t* come from the Mad Men era. Don’t get me wrong, things are loosening up, but I still think many of the same issues are at play. (Pay inequality, fairly rigid gender roles, women being sexually objectified, etc.)

        • Elizabetta1022

          No one is ever entitled to use anyone else. Period. Does it happen? Yes. But that doesn’t make it okay.

      • Sweetbetty

         ” helping Bobby get his things organized etc.”               Was Bobby’s drawing supposed to have some significance?  It seems everything in Mad Men does, yet I couldn’t find any in the drawing.  Was the whale supposed to be his fat mom?  That’s the only thing I could come up with and I just can’t believe that would be it.

        • barbarasingleterry

          The drawing had Don’s note to Megan on the back.  That was the significance.  Bobby said he did the drawing at dad’s house.

          • Sweetbetty

             OK, I got that, but the camera lingered on the drawing enough to make me think it was significant in some other way.

            • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

               Maybe it’s only significant because it made Betty think so. Bobby could simply be drawing a whale. Betty might see it as more when it’s not.

            • cleep1000

              My first thought was Moby Dick. Lots of symbolism there. Or it might just be random, but Betty was disturbed because she took it personally? She doesn’t want to be reminded of things that are large and apparently dying.

            • clairdelune

              Great, but scary catch, cleep 1000:

              We know someone’s going down.  Betty:  dying whale.

              And thus, a slightly more sympathetic portrayal (finally).

            • terekirkland

               I thought Moby Dick, too. Some kind of reflection of the characters’ often painful and delusional pursuit of what they believe they desire.

              Betty’s white whale is her happiness (I guess?), Don’s is his sense of the “old” Don Draper, pre-Megan, who could sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman in white gloves, Peggy and Ginsberg are looking for respect for the work they put in, etc…

              Just one of the more subtle reinforcements of this week’s theme, I guess.

        • MK03

          Yeah, I was trying to figure out what significance the drawing had. A smiling whale with socks stuck to it with arrows? That was such an odd thing to draw. Though, considering it looked a lot like Fudgie the Whale, maybe Bobby is sketching prototypes…

          • Sandra Cook

             I don’t think those were supposed to be socks… I’m pretty sure they were pools of blood from the wounds the arrows made

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

              Yes – it was of a smiling whale being harpooned. Kind of an odd drawing for a young kid. I used to draw animals all the time, but not of them dying, and in any case the fact that whales were killed this way seems like an odd thing for a 10-year-old in 1966 to know. Betty’s comment was that the whale “shouldn’t be smiling” since it was being killed.

            • http://twitter.com/Elissa_Malcohn Elissa Malcohn

              The movie “Moby Dick” with Gregory Peck as Ahab was released the year Bobby was born.  I was born in 1958 and remember watching it on TV when I was a kid.  The ABC Sunday Night Movie series had first aired in 1962, and it made the first network telecast of “Moby Dick.”  I don’t know which year, but Wikipedia’s entry on The ABC Sunday Night Movie places that telecast, in what seems a chronological list, prior to the 1966 telecast of “Carousel.”

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

              That makes sense – thanks for clarifying! I didn’t think he would have read the novel. :-)

            • Sweetbetty

               OMG!  I didn’t see socks or arrows.  The closest I could come to figuring out what those things were was that they were rockets like they use for fireworks with sparks coming out of them.  I wish we could get a good picture if it.  I did think it was significant that there were three of whatever-they-were to correspond to the three kids of Don and Betty.  The whale being Betty, though, just seem a little too heavy-handed and if that was what Bobby drew I think he’d try to hide it from his mom rather than let her look at it like he did.

            • sweetlilvoice

              I also thought the number of arrows was significant. I also think it’s important that this specific piece of paper was used for scrap…perhaps Don leaves Megan so many notes that she doesn’t find them important anymore? Not that she would collect them like a school girl…but it made me wonder. 

            • kcarb1025

              There’s really nothing important about a husband leaving his wife a nice note letting her know that he went out to get a lightbulb. It would be more odd if she or anyone thought it was.

            • http://profiles.google.com/ameliaheartsu Amelia Logan

              only important because it was important to betty.

        • gloriaj

          It was a blue whale being stabbed by three harpoons. (Betty was wearing a blue dress in the scene.) It was the least subtle thing I’ve seen on MM.

      • egl48

        I love Betty.  It was great to have her back on the show.  She’s no saint, but often the most intriguing characters aren’t.

      • Anna Bergman

         Betty helping Bobby with his homework  and arranging his papers was new.   I wondered why Bobby was wearing a tie, could it be a school uniform?  still seems very formal.

    • Calinda_L

      I’m pretty sure TLo mentioned something off hand once about the post-hotel-strip-down relationship (detente?) between Peggy and Stan, but I have been more and more struck with each episode at the incredibly subtle ways the show is developing their professional relationship in a positive way (also: Peggy and Ken, though that was a bit more heavy-handed). With so much focus on the more obvious relationships (the spouses/couples, the SCDP partners, the families), it would be very easy to ignore the seemingly unnecessary tertiary relationships (ahem, like Smash). The show doesn’t feel the need to over explain every little character action, and instead lets the audience just figure stuff out; they also include understand the importance of creating a deeply saturated backdrop of fully realized characters and a realistic office environment. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

      The devil made Don do it.

      • ballerinawithagun

        The drawing of the devil looked exactly like a caricature of Don.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

         That’s funny.

        On another note, I thought the drawing of the devil was too creepy, literal.  I thought it should have been fun-er, more Tasmania like. 

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

          I agree.  And can you imagine how people of … certain religious beliefs would react? I’m surprised no one mentioned this. (Note that I lived for many years in an area of the country where schools held “fall festivals” instead of Halloween parties out of fear of witchcraft, demonism, etc…)

          • Sweetbetty

             I live in central PA and I’ve seen many Halloween events transform into “fall” or “harvest”, not because of fear of witchcraft or demonism but out of being PC, much like not having any sort of religious events that are supported by government money.

          • formerlyAnon

             I don’t remember the religious objection to Halloween influencing events at school or in the community during the 60s at all – at least not in the middle and upper middle class suburbs we mostly lived in.  The public schools and the Catholic schools both had Halloween events.  While there may have been other religiously – based elementary schools, I don’t remember ever hearing about ANY until the ’70s when they were created in response to integration, or the deteriorating standards in the public schools, depending on whom you ask.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

              This wasn’t meant so much to be a comment on Halloween as a way of saying that there are many in this country for whom the devil is a real, active presence, not an abstract concept. This is certainly the case now, and likely was in 1966 as well. That’s why I was surprised that they would consider using such a “realistic” devil for the ad as this would alienate and indeed offend this population.

            • Sweetbetty

              Enh, Underwood has used a devil as it’s deviled ham logo for over a hundred years and it was very demonic looking in its early years.

            • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

              Agree – the easily-offended sensitivity of religious people today to symbols used as pop cultural references wasn’t a big deal. Most people didn’t take such things literally. That’s only really become an public issue in the last couple of decades, with the rise of the religious/social conservative rightwing. 

            • Sweetbetty

               Blame it all on Madeline Murray O’Hare.  Once she managed to get prayer out of school everybody felt they could complain about anything that didn’t agree with their religion.

            • AZU403

              But this is a New York City company in the mid-Sixties. We had barely heard of so-called Holy Rollers.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

              It’s funny, because I grew up around such ideologies (think Deep South in the 80s and 90s, left for good in 1998) I assumed they had always existed. 

    • juliamargaret

      Linked to the other themes of “every man for himself’, jealousy, competition, and backing the wrong horse, betrayal was another theme in this episode. Peggy felt betrayed by Roger, Ginsberg felt betrayed by Don, Don and Megan felt betrayed by Betty, Sally felt betrayed by Megan and Don, Pete felt betrayed by the New York Times, Jane felt betrayed by Roger, etc. etc.

      • Flooby

        That was the theme I noticed last night during the show.  Toward the end with the Thanksgiving stuff I started wondering if there’d also been a theme of “thankfulness” or appreciation.  Like Roger never appreciated Jane, Don wants to compete with instead of appreciating Ginsberg, Ginsberg can’t appreciate a basically good job… but that was probably over reaching.    

    • http://www.MintaHall.com/ Minta Hall

      Did anyone else pick up on the fact that Don left for the office and there’s Sally and Megan playing on the floor together, dressed very similarly–and receiving the exact same departing peck?  Seemed to me that was driving home how YOUNG Megan is relative to Don–and that he recognizes the big age gap between them. It’s like he saw both of them as being in the same generation–a generation younger than himself.

      Sally’s most mature and positive influence may well be Megan. And isn’t that a sad comment?

      • Jessi03

        I saw that, too, and it was interesting that Megan was showing Sally how to fake emotions.  I also noticed that Sally reminded Megan that she was her friend first, before Don.  Does Sally even really have a mother figure at this point that she can look up to?  Loved her little Thanksgiving dinner snark at Betty’s expense. “Let her eat, Bobby, she’s hungry,” and Betty immediately put down her fork.

        • MK03

          God, what a snotty little bitch Sally is becoming. I love it.

    • magickat

      I thought Ginsberg was one of the few who WASN’T a little shit last night. What Don did was crappy and immature and vengeful, and I was glad Ginsberg called him on it. Yes, he has social awkwardness (like not being able to feign his surprise at Don’s ability to still come up with an idea), but he didn’t put up with the b.s., not from Don, not from Roger, and I like him ever better for it.

      Also, I don’t think the stating of the theme thing is that obvious, or it’s not that much more obvious than in past seasons. How about “It’s not Ann Margaret” or other similar summations proffered by Roger or other characters in the past? I think we’ve just become more attuned to it over the years of watching the show.

      • Spicytomato1

        I like him even better for not putting up with the bs, too. It’s refreshing. Reminds me a little bit of my son, who has Asperger’s syndrome, who will pretty much say what’s on his mind and not worry about what’s p.c. Luckily he knows to be respectful to teachers. But I know that kind of behavior isn’t usually tolerated for very long in an office environment, where maintaining a facade of perfection, while passive-aggressive moves run rampant, is the norm.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ande-Cook/100000183664272 Ande Cook

        I like GInsberg. Since they took Joan away from us – hes what I look forward to. and his scenes with Roger were a delight. everybody’s scene with Roger is the best.

    • P M

      Oh, Betty, sweet Betty. You taught your offspring so well. And you’re shocked to see how that can turn against you.

      ‘I have everything……. and nobody has any better’. THE perfect line to sum up what Bets’ wants.

      But Betty, dear, does it make you happy to see your daughter not have / not be any better? Really? 

      • KATW101

        I have often said this is the telltale sign of a bad, toxic parent:  not wanting your children to do better than you.  Most anything else can be forgiven because parents are imperfect people too.  But not wanting the best for your child is unforgivable.

    • P M

      Ginsberg is on a collision course with Don, methinks.

      ‘Peter, Paul and Mary’, eh? That’s Ginzo and Olson, and…… who will be the third? If it’s Stan, I’ll eat my hat. If it’s Campbell…..god help us all.

    • P M

      Betting on losing horses……..that would be all the married women on this show, no? Betty, Megan, Trudy……

      • filmcricket

        JOAN. Betty might win that horse-race, but it’d be a photo finish between her and Joanie.

        • P M

           Ha! Quite right. I excluded Joanie because that ship had already sunk, I thought….

          I included Betty because of what Henry said ‘you bet on the wrong horse…’

    • NDC_IPCentral

      With respect to the possibility that Peggy may jump ship – could the New York Times Magazine spread that did NOT include Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce but did feature the “Peter, Paul and Mary” pic of, I think it was Mary Wells Lawrence and her agency, Wells Rich Greene, foreshadow Peggy’s move to that agency – founded in 1966?

      • AutumnInNY

        Good call. I was thinking the same thing.

        • makeityourself

          Me too.

    • P M

      Oh, my…. Pete’s creepiness really is taking a *bad* turn. REALLY, PETE? You think she’ll show up naked in furs, just for you? hah.

      That’s a train-wreck just waiting to happen. 

      • sweetlilvoice

        I keep thinking that actress is Resse Whiterspoon (during Walk the Line) and it throws me. Naked in furs? Pete, you dog.

        • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

          i had a friend in the sixties who actually did that naked in furs thing.  her lover sent her a telegram saying “come to me naked in a taxi at midnight.  i’ll pay the fare.”  and so she did, in a fur coat.

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        Maybe this is proof that I think about this show too much. :) But when you put it that way, “naked in furs” reminds me of a scene in the first season. Pete is sharing a fantasy with Peggy about hunting, killing something, skinning it and having his woman cook it. Sure, the fur itself looks rich and maybe is meant to evoke Betty-the-fur-model, but I think it symbolizes a pelt, conquered by macho man Pete.

        • Lilithcat

          “naked in furs” 

          “Butterfield 8″ reference?

        • P M

           pelt conquered by macho man Pete just adds another layer of creepy to me.

          But a good point, nonetheless. Why on earth hasn’t this man progressed to hunting or taxidermy yet?

      • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

        pete is really beginning to appear disturbed.  i’ll take him for a serial killer over ginsberg, as someone suggested above.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

          I think he’s just kinky but doesn’t know it yet.

          • P M

            I don’t think Pete’s that imaginative. And Pete’d make a terrible dom.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

              But he might be a good sub! :-)

            • ldancer

              It is a sad commentary on my mental state that I can picture that all too well.

      • sarahjane1912

        Yup, you got it: a trainwreck!

        What struck me about the set-up though, was the sub/dom elements within the scene. In Pete’s fantasy, SHE is in control even if the reason — she tells him — that she’s there is because she read about him in NYT [every fantasy has an ego boost and where, in a 'traditional' porn scene it would be 'you're so big' or similar, for Pete it's his position in the firm which is the apparent turn-on for his naked fur-covered lover]. 

        But seriously, she comes in, locks the door, is sultry and powerful in her furs, heavily-made-up face and black lace knickers, completely the opposite to his last memories of her [scared and bewildered when he invades her home, yearning for her as she writes a heart on the misty car window] … and he’s apparently taken aback, almost overcome by her presence … what a fantasy! What a PETE fantasy.

        And I love his smile ‘afterwards’ as he’s lounging on his sofa. I wonder whether he ‘self-helped’ after that little interlude. Guffaw. ;-)

    • kcarb1025

      Ginsburg is lucky he has a job there at all, and he only does because Don wanted to like him and his work. If I am beyond sick of Ginsburg’s whining and backtalking to his boss, then I can only imagine how fed up with it the boss is. He needs to realize that he doesnt run shit around SCDP, it’s Don’s name on the letterhead, and then he needs stfu and do his grunt work like he’s paid to do.

      • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

        yeah.  ginsberg needs a good slapdown.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ande-Cook/100000183664272 Ande Cook

        harsh.

    • butter nut

      couple things i noticed:  one of the clients was a jewish wine & there was a lot of “whining” from the characters.  also, michael says “murder!” when he & roger are talking about pete campbell.  

      • Qitkat

        Can you imagine how Pete’s friend on the train (can’t think of his name) whose wife Pete is screwing might react if he knew the truth, especially since Pete really did just blurt it out to him while jesting back and forth?

    • http://www.facebook.com/tuckeramy Amy Tucker

      LOVED 

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        Oh, but the look on her face as she ate that one bite of stuffing! Rapturous.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

          It was funny, she had ONE Brussel sprout which would actually have been good for her – I think the stuffing was the largest portion! And yeah, it’s funny how diet suggestions change – no fat, no sugar, no carbs, etc.

          • http://www.facebook.com/tuckeramy Amy Tucker

             Oh god that one stupid Brussel sprout. The year I did Thanksgiving while also on WW (NOT RECOMMENDED especially if you have a Southern family – usually I quit going from Nov-Dec and pick back up in Jan) I totally took advantage of the Brussels sprouts and green beans. Betty needs more WW pros in her life, haha.

          • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

            But it did look like it was dripping in butter.

      • Qitkat

        What I really noticed was how all the women were dressed in their suburban suits and housewife dresses. Not dressy really, but how different from any WW meeting I’ve ever been to, people in lightweight sweats or jeans, much more casually dressed in modern times.

        • Spicytomato1

          Yes, definitely dressy by today’s standards! The notion of casual barely seemed to exist back then. And nowadays casual seems to be becoming increasingly slobby, with workout wear even doubling as church attire.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            A friend of mine who works in HR actually had to TELL her female employees that wearing velour track suits with words printed on the ass was NOT acceptable office wear.

            • ldancer

              HA! Oh, I’m so glad I don’t work in an office anymore. Then again, maybe it depends on what words are printed on the ass. Like, what if the words are “HAPPY LITTLE WORKER BEE” or “GO-GETTER!”?

              I really should go to bed.

            • filmcricket

              It’s like the people who come to interviews in low-cut tops and gyno skirts. I understand not every job is going to require a suit (mine sure doesn’t) but flashing cleavage isn’t going to get you any respect from whoever’s interviewing you.

        • http://www.facebook.com/tuckeramy Amy Tucker

           Yeah, most people are either coming from the gym, going to the gym, or it’s wedged into their errands for the day. In the episode, it seemed more like a social gathering where you want to make a good impression.

        • AZU403

          Definitely, there was a distinction between serious going-to-meet-people/work/school clothes and weekend clothes. In just a couple of years that would start to break down. The first time I (a woman) wore pants to the office was 1971, and that was pretty radical.

          • Spicytomato1

            Even in the 80s, when I started working full time in an office, power suits were the norm. Pants on women were still rare, and business casual or “casual Fridays” did not yet exist.

            • sarahjane1912

              So very true. And on a personal note, it wasn’t until the 21st century [in my home country, Australia] that courts started to relax and allow female lawyers to wear a trouser suit [rather than a conservative suit/skirt + tights/hosiery].

    • suzinrva

      Sally has two paths clearly set before her. Meghan as example with her destructive, manipulative parents and chooses to tap into those emotions artistically and honestly and Betty as the privileged daughter who left a creative, worldly life to marry into a destructive, manipulative relationship. Sally may become empowered or bitter. Meghan or Betty. Or perhaps a bit of both? 

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/toodleskitty79?feature=guide AWS

      This was not a favorite episode.  I have the same complaint as TLo about the “theme schtick”.  I felt the obviousness of mood lighting and the meaning of dialogue was very soap opera-ish.  Perhaps the writers did this on purpose since a minor character was up for a role on “Dark Shadows”?

      I realized that Ginsberg is everything Don is not.  I thought Peter Campbell was everything Don is not.  Peter Campbell is just pathological.  Ginsberg has his Jewish ethnicity and ancestry.  Ginsberg has a loving and supportive father.  Ginsberg comes off as a virgin Woody Allen.  He’s got NO game yet with the ladies.

      Don is a private, confident, orphan with a lot of game if he needs it. 

      Don is the mouse and Michael is the up and coming lion (NOT “a little shit”).

      Matt Weiner said on the “Charlie Rose Show” that the character of Betty was based on his mother.  How disturbing is that?  He didn’t qualify or explain it. I just kept thinking based on your mother’s physicality or pathology?  Ew…

      • kj8008

        Let’s say he weren’t doing advertising…and killing co-eds.  Does that make him a lion…or just a predator? Tell me Ginsberg doesn’t fit that profile? Eccentric, intelligent, obsessive.  Certainly, he could be doing both and we don’t know it – yet.

        I’m waiting for the asian stepdaugt…uhhh, wife to show up.

        • Spicytomato1

          “Eccentric, intelligent, obsessive.”

          Maybe I’m biased since I have a son on the autism spectrum with those very qualities. I’m fairly certain those traits don’t necessarily indicate murderous tendencies. But who knows.

          • kj8008

            @Spicy:twitter  – I hope you didn’t take that personally. I have an autistic nephew who shows outstanding talents, and still cannot speak.

            I can just see his character ‘deciding’ to kidnap people and chop them up in his apartment one day. My way of saying I’m not a fan of his.

            • Spicytomato1

              Not at all, but thanks for asking.

        • ldancer

          Jeez. Ginsberg is just a typical know-it-all New York Jewish boy. I grew up with a hundred of them, and we New York Jewish girls are like that too – honest, earnest, blurty, “big” personalities compared to the goyim around us who are passive-aggressive and evasive while we’re running around talking about everything. Nothing dangerous there, just culturally different. He’s also living on the Lower East Side or some similar tenement neighborhood. He’s probably used to having to shout to be heard. I’m interested in his character. Where will they take him, I wonder?

          • Spicytomato1

            Really interesting, enlightening take on him. I had a vague sense that his eccentricities might be cultural…it totally makes sense now that you’ve painted such a vivid picture.

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        Makes you wonder about Matt’s relationship with his mom. Betty is definitely NOT a romanticized character.

      • VanessaDK

         Really?  And he hired his son to play a boy with a crush on her…..

      • formerlyAnon

        ” Matt Weiner said on the “Charlie Rose Show” that the character of Betty
        was based on his mother.  How disturbing is that?  He didn’t qualify or
        explain it.”

        Unless they currently have a fabulously close relationship, I sure hope she’s died. Given who Betty is, that is not something I’d want a son of mine sharing on t.v. if I were still around to get my feelings hurt.

        (Edited for clarity)

      • filmcricket

        Just another way Weiner’s Sopranos is showing. I’m pretty sure David Chase based Livia Soprano on *his* mother. God, between the horrible parents and/or the tormented high school nerds and/or the body-of-the-week, does anyone get the impression most TV writers aren’t very happy people?

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/toodleskitty79?feature=guide AWS

          I never pondered whether TV writers were happy.  I just want them to make ME happy…

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

      I don’t feel sorry for Jane.  I probably should, but I don’t.  She married for money and she got the type of man who has money and would marry a woman who marries for money. 

      • lee66132000

        Like Rowsella, I dislike Megan.  She’s too ideal, despite her so-called flaws.  It’s ridiculous.  I think that Matt Weiner is going TOO FAR in trying to present a character that is supposed to be the antithesis of Betty Francis.
        We don’t know why Megan married Don.  We don’t know her initial reaction to the Dick Whitman revelation.  She is young, beautiful, automatically talented as a copywriter and modern.  She’s too perfect.And instead of complaining about this, many fans are wallowing in her perfection.  Frankly, I wish that Betty had poisoned Megan “LITERALLY”.  I’m getting tired of her and her perfections.

        Also, I found it rather cheap that Matt Weiner and AMC would use this episode as a slap against the new “DARK SHADOWS” movie. 

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VZLU6YVO4BRTELTTH3GRAAMWZQ Dot

          Dark Shadows was an actual TV soap opera that ran from 1966-1971. I think any parallel to the film is coincidental — particularly as these episodes were written a year+ ago. I don’t think it was a “slap” against the film.

          • rosiepowell2000

            This was good timing, not coincidental.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VZLU6YVO4BRTELTTH3GRAAMWZQ Dot

              Good timing for what? If they didn’t plan for the Dark Shadows episode title to coincide with the film release, then it’s coincidental. If anything, I don’t see how it’s a “slap” against the film.

            • judybrowni

              The Dark Shadows movie was probably in production a year ago, and announced as such.

              But no one would know how it’d turn out, so it may be coincidence, or the writers may have wanted to use the coincidence.

              But a slap? Well, the Dark Shadows soap opera was cheesy.  Even as a kid, bad soap opera dialogue annoyed me, so I never made it through more than one episode of Dark Shadows.

              (But then again, I also preferred the ’30s Dracula to the Hammer films.)

        • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

           You know, Anna Draper was too ideal as well. Young, beautiful, talented as a piano teacher. Too perfect. She served a purpose in the storytelling, though. So does Megan, but she gets a lot more screen time than Anna ever did.

          • Sweetbetty

             I was thinking the same thing as I’ve been reading all the complaints about Megan’s “perfection” and the fond remembrances of Anna.  If Anna had been given the amount of screen time as Megan has people would be complaining about her too.

    • Laylalola

      Don trying excruciating hard to be Howard Roark — his “I don’t think of you at all!” or whatever it was he said to Ginsberg was SO forced and … fake and NOT Howard Roarkish. But that’s what he wanted Ginsberg to think. It really all felt so weird and wrong.

      • ccinnc

         I wonder if Ginsberg appreciated that – Don going out of his way to pretend that he never thinks about Ginsberg, when it’s obvious that he finds him a threat.  Interesting that Don can’t respond to Ginsberg honestly so has to try to diminish him.

        • Laylalola

          It’s the talent thing. People sometimes have a weird instinct to want to quash actual talent. Which would sort of make Ginsberg the actual Howard Roak here, kinda, sorta — I would have backed away from that except the quote almost seemed verbatim (I’d have to check) and the show made a big deal about Ayn Rand and Bert Cooper early on.

          • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

            Don has supported developing talent in the past (e.g. Peggy). Seems more like his friction with Ginsberg is due to Don knowing he’s rusty and doesn’t have his A-game going at the moment which makes him uncharacteristically insecure combined with Ginsberg’s rather tactless and abrasive personality.

        • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

          it’s sort of like not thinking about elephants.  don probably thinks of ginsberg a great deal.

        • kcarb1025

          Don is not obligated to respond to Ginsberg in any way at all. He is the boss.

    • idrisr

       Can someone provide the political context for what Henry was talking about? Who was the wrong horse, the right one, who was it that should run in 68 instead of 72, etc… I’m too lazy to do that google search right now ;>

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/M476USE6GD6VEE4RO6JA22VRLI Kriesa

        I believe that Henry worked for Rockefeller (governor of NY state) when we first “met” him, but it sounds like he has jumped ship to work for John Lindsay, who is “now” mayor of NYC. I’m not sure what Henry’s disappointment is. Rockefeller had just unsuccessfully run for president, but he’s still governor until ’73. Lindsay will be mayor until ’73.

        According to wikepedia, there was some kind of backlash against Lindsay in 1969 that caused him to lose the mayoral primary. Maybe that was starting already in Novemger 1968?

        • Lilithcat

          It’ll turn out, of course, that Rockefeller’s divorce did matter.  

        • Munchkn

          Lindsay ran for the Democratic nomination for President in ’72.  He changed parties in 1970.  He was always fairly liberal though. 

          There was also a mention by Burt Cooper of Jacob Javits who was Senator from NY.  He was another liberal Republican

        • Qitkat

          This part of the episode suddenly brought back some old memories for me. I actually did *work* for the Rockefeller campaign very briefly that year. I was employed in Washington DC for the Republican Congressional Committee which did a lot of fundraising for the party. When Rockefeller came to northern Virginia to do some early campaigning for a caucus or a presidential primary (I don’t recall which), several of us office girls were sent to the local hotel serving as his headquarters to be gofers to help out his campaign staff. I recall we all had to dress up and be on our best behavior, doing whatever we were asked to do. I wish I could remember more details, but that was a long time ago. I think I got to shake his hand.

          It’s ironic, since for most of the rest of my life, I’ve been a Democrat. But my parents were also Republicans at that time and it didn’t seem odd to me to work for the Republicans. And I wasn’t political at all, it was just a job to me.

          • http://twitter.com/Elissa_Malcohn Elissa Malcohn

            This brought back memories for me, too.  I grew up in Brooklyn.  I remember the barrage of strikes on Lindsay’s watch (a quick Wikipedia check says transit workers’ strike in ’66, sanitation workers’ and teachers’ strikes in 1968).  I especially remember the teachers’ strike, since my mother taught HS English at the time.  After it was settled, my public school rearranged its schedule to make up time.

    • http://asskickingadviser.com/ Ass Kicking Adviser

      I loved the whole episode but I do get what you guys are talking about with the themes – especially what Betty said at the Thanskgiving table.  A little bit of a cliche.

      The confrontation between Don and Ginsberg reminded me of the one between Don and Peggy a few years ago when she was looking for praise and credit and Don was like, ‘uh yeah, you work for me.’

      • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

        what betty said may have been a cliche, but i laughed out loud because it so perfectly summed up her whole personality.  and did you hear sally’s line when betty starts to eat before they give thanks?  “she’s hungry.”  sticking that knife in… 

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

        Unfortunately I know at least 2 people that would say something like that and be totally oblivious to it. 

    • http://twitter.com/fashunroadkill Chelle

      I don’t care what Betty’s done, we’re both in Weight Watchers and therefore she’s my spirit animal!

      Betty, I know your pain of counting points!

      • VanessaDK

         Just so you know–the point system came much much later in WW history.  At this era they were still using the New York City Health Dept diet which the founder (Jean Nidetch) incorporated into a supportive system of group meetings.  Fish 5 times a week, lots of fruit and veggies and skim milk.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

          That’s actually a sane diet with the exception of the mercury issue. My other half (bodybuilder) eats a similar diet.  And of course it depends on how you prepare the fish. 

        • Sweetbetty

           Did anyone think that steak Henry was frying because he “can’t eat fish every day” looked unappetizing as hell?  When they first showed it cooking in the pan I was expecting it to be Ginsberg cooking a lonely little meal for himself, except he wouldn’t splurge for steak.

        • http://twitter.com/fashunroadkill Chelle

          Mmm did not know!

        • AZU403

          One my mother’s fellow Weight Watcher-mates inquired, “Where does the weight actually go when you lose it?” The leader smiled and said, “Well, all that asparagus…” (makes you pee)

    • Damien W

      The first line to get an audible LOL out of me was Peggy’s:

      “Am I the only one around here who can drink and work at the same time?” 

    • http://twitter.com/_SeanBrody Sean

      From AMC and Weiner Bros. Productions, it’s Mad Men. I’m Roger Sterling. 
      Each week on our program we choose a theme, then our characters bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme. Today on our program, jealousy and selfishness. 
      What happens when even though you have enough, you still covet what someone else has? Sometimes to the point of making yourself do or say crazy, hurtful things.

      Act 1 – A bored, upper class suburban housewife resents the younger, lithe and cool wife of her ex husband, and what she does about it.
      Act 2 – An enterprising copy writer is the subject of jealousy from not one but two co-workers, one of them his Creative Director.And in Act 3 an account executive fantasizes about the wife of a fellow commuter (we’ll work in some fantasy nudity here).We’ll also have an aspiring actress overtly jealous of her friend who has married well, and an older man jealous of the attention his estranged younger wife receives from another man.All this and more, after the break. Stay tuned.

      • http://twitter.com/SIxGablesBags SIxGablesBags

         lol, for Act 3, you need the standard “While there is no actual sex, we do acknowledge the existence of sex, so if you have children listening, you have been warned.”

        • http://twitter.com/_SeanBrody Sean

          Better.
          Much better.

    • kcarb1025

      Also, can we stop ascribing Bettys “loneliness and isolation in Ossining” to Don? She is lonely and isolatedd in Rye with a better husband than she probably deserves. The excuses for why she is a sour bitch to all and sundry have out.

      • greenwich_matron

        I’m really disappointed about Betty. This is the episode that made it impossible for me to empathize with her. She has become a cartoon to me, like any other soap opera villainess. I feel that this is a low for the writers because she seems pretty one dimensional now.

    • Kyle Crawford

      I have not read all the comments , maybe someone has addressed this, but I don’t think Don “left” the other drawings in the cab – he made a decision while riding over and took his – throwing the others away. 

      • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

         I believe it was Ken who told Michael that Don “left” the drawings in the cab. We can assume they were left behind, but obviously not mistakenly.

      • Spicytomato1

        Absolutely. But it was a convenient excuse that he could use instead of telling the truth behind his insecurity-driven decision…”sorry, I must have left them in the cab.”

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        What’s more, Don didn’t make the decision in the cab. He made the decision much earlier. He set Michael up for a smackdown. Probably why he was so quick to dismiss Peggy’s idea.

      • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

        yes, you can see him thinking it over in the screen cap above.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YAMNQMUGFM4NNSPAQLZRODSD5I Angela

         I had to go back and look at what exactly happened there too. Don is looking at Ginsberg’s snowball-in-the-face in one hand and his devil in the other. He puts the devil in the portfolio, and deliberately sets down the snowball. Harry is in the front seat, turned around looking right at him. He says,” You want me to get those?” and Don says bluntly,”I’m not taking two.” He has already said that he believes showing two campaigns is “weak”. So Ken and Harry know it is deliberate on Don’s part, but they aren’t telling!

        • sarahjane1912

          Ah ha! Thanks for that info; I was planning on re-watching that scene to check the ‘deliberateness’ of the move because I watch the ep online and the screen was pixellating during the cab ride so I didn’t ‘see’ how it went down. Cheers. :-)

    • MilaXX

      For some reason everyone made me cringe for them this week. Pete’s and his sad fantasies about his neighbors wife, Don being off his game, Peggy lacking accounts, Sterling trying desperately to stay relevant and the entire overweight Betty storyline. I still love the show, but this week just felt awkward and odd to me.

      • Qitkat

        I agree. What I found myself missing were the older, absolutely fantastic episodes when Don finally revealed all to Betty, when Don and Peggy stayed up all night after Anna’s death, actually any episode to do with Anna. I think what is missing is that so many secrets have now been revealed that the show is much less layered that it was in previous seasons. Obviously there still are secrets, Ginsberg, possibly Megan, Pete and his destructive behavior, but they don’t carry the weight that Don’s secret identity did.

        • roadtrip1000

           And let’s not forget the paternity of Joan’s child!

      • sarahjane1912

        Not so much awkward and odd to me, but hey, have to say: I MISS JOANIE !! She needs more screentime PLEASE! 

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          Having Joan in her own office keeps her out of view. :( Plus I think she looks lonely in there. 

    • kj8008

      Don seemed very old and out of touch with Ginsberg, who was being super douchey with his “I’m the best” OCD behavior. It was disconcerting to have Don be jealous of the manic young copywriter. It’s true, he’s been lost in the success, position, new wife. Yes, he’s rusty. But, remember…Glo-Coat, “It WILL rain”, the Carousel and, “You already know about Jesus, either he lives in your heart or he doesn’t.”

      Just like a prizefighter who’s fought too many Glass Joes – Ginsberg is Don’s Clubber Lang.

      Apparently, Peggy isn’t the go-to-girl anymore (as far as Roger is concerned). Roger was never a go-to-guy ever. It was like the Boy’s Life incident with Pete.  Betty trying to make Sally her poison pill. All of the old pro’s were challenged this episode, to do more – or better(or make it worse for others).

      Roger and Peggy won, Don, Betty and Pete lost. That gives this episode a losing record and on a show that pushes quality writing above else, could there will be no Emmy for season 5? At this point, the nomination is a win.

      However, as the decade proceeds, the newer characters have to push the originals to new dimensions. The exercise of their development comes squarely on the Ginsbergs yet to come.  They must get better, must evolve, must surprise us when they reach 1969 and close the show with the decade that defined us as a country after WWII.

      This outing was underwhelming, but we really can’t expect them to pitch a no-no every week, right?

      • Anna Bergman

         Roger went to Ginsberg since he is Jewish

        • terekirkland

           Right, and he went to Peggy because he knew she would be there late anyway…

    • carolynmo

      “costuming nirvana”– love it!

    • Lina_bee

      Does anyone have any thoughts on the fedoras?  I had thought that by this point, men’s hats were fairly relegated to older men who had always worn them and felt no need to cave to fashion (a la my grandfathers & great uncles), while younger men didn’t bother (and hadn’t for quite a few years by this point). I guess I keep expecting the hats to go away…

      • Munchkn

         It was only the older men who were wearing hats on the elevator:  Burt Cooper and Roger.   Don wasn’t wearing his.  You are right, though, about men’s hats.  They started to go out of style when President Kennedy didn’t wear a hat at his inauguration.

        • Sweetbetty

           I wonder at what point men wearing baseball caps, some backwards, were getting on those same elevators?

          • Qitkat

            Many many years, or even never. Who wears a baseball cap with a suit? My thirtysomething sons wear bb caps in personal life, a lot, but never ever to work, even on casual Friday.

            • Sweetbetty

               In that building maybe men still wear suits to work.  But I see men in positions where suits, or at least sports jacket and dress slacks, were once de rigueur now dressing very casually and a baseball cap can be part of their daily attire.  Look at Stan; he’s only a few steps away from a baseball cap :-)

            • formerlyAnon

               Yes about Stan. For a long time I couldn’t figure out why he reminded me so strongly of some of my uncles (despite little actual resemblance).  I think it’s because he wears clothes that are less formal office than “nice” casual wear – a family dinner with out of town guests, or a casual restaurant dinner on a Saturday – the situations in which I mostly saw my uncles.

        • roadtrip1000

           Regarding JFK: I had read (somewhere) that that was an urban myth. Kennedy had actually worn a top hat for part of the inauguration ceremony (there are photos) but took it off (allegedly) because of the wind. Also, men’s hats were declining in popularity before JFK. I’m no expert in the history of clothing but I tend to believe it is an urban myth simply because of the photos.

          • Sweetbetty

             I don’t think hat wearing dropped off because of JFK wearing or not wearing a hat at his inauguration but because of him not wearing a hat in general.  I grew up with Ike as president and always remember seeing him with a fedora but can’t recall one pic of JFK in a hat, other than maybe a skipper’s hat when he’s sailing.

          • Munchkn

             Thanks for the information, roadtrip1000!  It’s always good to learn something new.

      • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

        it’s another way to show how “out of it” these ad men will soon be.  you notice ginsberg, the new generation, would never wear a fedora, yet pete does, even though i imagine they are close in age.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

          Good point – Pete is probably 5-6 years older than Michael, but I think it’s the class difference, as much as the age difference, that’s at work here.

          • 3hares

            I don’t remember Pete ever wearing a fedora. Am I forgetting it?

    • Lina_bee

      Does anyone have any thoughts on the fedoras?  I had thought that by this point, men’s hats were fairly relegated to older men who had always worn them and felt no need to cave to fashion (a la my grandfathers & great uncles), while younger men didn’t bother (and hadn’t for quite a few years by this point). I guess I keep expecting the hats to go away…

    • MK03

      Roger has become an ATM this season. Which I love. Damn, he is ON FIRE this season.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

         Someone should keep track of how much money he puts out.  He is going to go broke.

        • Sweetbetty

           Loved his line of, “I’ve gotta stop carrying so much cash on me”.

      • sweetlilvoice

        Peggy took him for plenty already…Gins got less. Roger probably couldn’t afford (both financially and the humiliation) of asking her again.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ande-Cook/100000183664272 Ande Cook

        what is ATM?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/M476USE6GD6VEE4RO6JA22VRLI Kriesa

          I think MK03 means that Roger is handing out money like an ATM (automated teller machine).

      • Qitkat

        Love Roger. He is much more interesting than Don at this point in time.

    • http://twitter.com/yellowhannah33 yellowhannah33

      I wanted to post the full poem Ginsberg quoted from because it was such a poorly chosen reference. It’s also one of my favourite poems, so I was excited to hear it, albeit briefly, in my favourite show. Ginsberg, like the statue in the desert would crumble into nothing when Don squashed him like a bug. 

      Ozymandius by Percy Bysshe Shelley

      I met a traveller from an antique landWho said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stoneStand in the desert. Near them on the sand,Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frownAnd wrinkled lip and sneer of cold commandTell that its sculptor well those passions readWhich yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.And on the pedestal these words appear:`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:**Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!**Nothing beside remains. Round the decayOf that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,The lone and level sands stretch far away”. 

      • Qitkat

        Oh, thank you! I haven’t read that poem in so many years. I love when poetry, and music, come to mean new things to me, than on first hearing. Our own life experiences gain new perspective and richness, when re-visiting older favorite literature and lyrics.

      • the_archandroid

        I was really pleased to hear it as well, and tickled when Stan advised him to read the entire thing.  I like it when Stan gets the bigger picture. 

      • Anna Bergman

         Stan was brilliant slapping down Ginsburg

    • http://twitter.com/bigknittrouble Big Knitting Trouble

      Ginzo and Sterling as conspirators — CRACKED ME UP.  Also, super eye candy.

      • girliecue

        I know, right? Their comedic chemistry was delicious! And gorgeous! I hope they do a client dinner together – with socially awkward Ginsberg, too-smooth Roger and a poor, unsuspecting client it would be a comedy of errors that they’d all be lucky to survive.

    • ldancer

      I have to say, I didn’t find the redi-wip moment funny. I found it very sad. There was some foreshadowing in this episode about possible bulimia or diet pill abuse (I read the Weight Watchers lady who kept losing weight and saying “I don’t know what happened!” as the latter).

      But you know what made me crack up? Sally giving better than she got about Anna Draper. I didn’t see it as evil at all, I saw it as Sally getting some command of her crappy situation. At this point, she’s getting to the age where she knows exactly what will get Betty the most, and frankly a parent who treats their child the way Betty treats Sally should expect that kind of thing. It’s not ideal human behavior, but 1) psychologically healthy people don’t make good fictional characters and 2) Sally’s doing her best with what she’s got. And what she’s got is kind of toxic.

      Also, did anyone else notice that in the scene where Sally is being so mean to Megan, her face and body language are pure Don Draper? Brilliant! Boy is she learning. I’d hate to be her romantic partner/roommate/bandmate down the line.

      • Sweetbetty

         ” Sally’s doing her best with what she’s got. And what she’s got is kind of toxic.”                       And this is what we all have to remember as we see Sally turning into a manipulative little bitch.  PS:  I didn’t find the Redi-Whip moment funny either.  It seems there are a few of us BKs who feel that way.  It kinda reminded me of the “Sopranos” scene where the mobster found his overweight stuffing herself from her hidden stash of candy bars.  Just very sad.

      • http://frankbettecenter.org/ sleah_in_norcal

        i, on the other hand , shrieked with laughter.  guess it’s because i’ve done that myself so many times when no one’s looking.
        i’m not one to eat to stuff down feelings, though.  i’m more of a tragic “i’ll just starve myself to death then” type.

        • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

          “i, on the other hand , shrieked with laughter. guess it’s because i’ve done that myself so many times when no one’s looking.”

          Exactly. Not to deny anyone else their experiences or response to that scene, but what Betty did there is kind of universal behavior for people when they’re stressed or depressed. Lots of people have done that sort of thing.

          • ldancer

            Oh, definitely. I just felt sad for Betty.

          • AZU403

            But Betty had the sense/bulimia to spit it out. Not me!

        • Lola67

          Oh wow, I can take it a step further. I’ve actually downed half a container of Ben & Jerry’s while watching Mad Men by myself. It’s gotten to be a nasty habit! I wait until I have the house to myself, get a glass of wine and something terrible for me. Wahahahaha!

          • Lisa_Cop

            I’m Jewish and I think Ginsberg is pushy. What I foundJust the wine for me.

          • Lisa_Cop

            I’m Jewish and I think Ginsberg is pushy. What I foundJust the wine for me.

          • Lisa_Cop

            Just wine for me.

          • Lisa_Cop

            Just wine for me.

      • the_archandroid

        Sally was a creepy amalgam of both of her parents worst traits.  She was aggressive and bullying like Don, and waspishly cruel and stinging the way Betty can be.  I don’t think Sally will grow up to be as cold as Betty, but I think that when she wields her cruelty it will be sharper and less petty than Betty’s and as forceful and blunt as Don’s.  
        That being said, I can’t help but think of her child psychologist (Dr. Edna?) who basically gave her some stellar advice as to how to deal with Betty, I think that’s exactly what we saw happen when she came home and reported back to her on what happened at Don’s re: Ana.  I think with Betty, Sally is just completely over it all and is now responding to her mother using the same passive aggressive tools, but with more of Don’s detached subtlety. 

    • http://twitter.com/Nanskatoon Nancy Skaggs

      “Betty and the Reddi-Whip is a definite laugh-out-loud moment.” 

      Really?  I found it sad, especially before I knew she was attending WW meetings. Rushing to placate mood with food, then the immediate guilt and self-loathing for the weakness, and subsequent desire to undo the behavior (by either spitting it out or worse, purging) are classic indicators of an eating disorder. Once I knew she was going to WW it made a little more sense- she spit it out vs having to account for it on her WW food diary. But the impulse showed her extreme lack of self-control. Woe to anyone who had gotten in the way of that lurch toward the refrigerator- you justk new she’d been thinking about that can of whipped cream from the moment she left Don’s apartment. In that situation, you must. have. food. just as badly as an addict wants any other fix.

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        I don’t think it was guilt that made her spit it out. I think it was a diet trick of “just getting the taste in her mouth”. Today we see it as something you’d find on a pro-ana website, but I don’t doubt it was touted by WW or her friends at the time.

        • Qitkat

          I posted earlier that I thought it was disgust with herself that she spit it out, but I like your take on it better. I really really don’t think they are going down the bulemia/anorexia road.

        • formerlyAnon

           Yes, “tasting” and spitting it out WAS a “diet tip” that circulated at the time.

          And I still absolutely think Betty is going to discover diet pills.

          • sarahjane1912

            Oh let’s just call them amphetamines, eh? *GRIN*

            • Paula Pertile

              Does anyone else remember Ayds? Those little square caramel ‘diet candies’ that were supposed to be appetite suppressors? 
              Did anyone else just eat them like regular candy?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTitP5_yDUU

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129137319 Paula Pertile

              I just wrote a post about Ayds, but it has to be approved (think probably because I included a link to an old Ayds commercial – sorry, didn’t realize).
              Anyway – does anyone remember those? What an unfortunate name for a diet ‘candy’. 

    • http://twitter.com/Nanskatoon Nancy Skaggs

      He’s all awkward rough edges. He’s got no corporate experience. Peggy was the same way, if you recall. She had to learn, and so does he.

    • susu11

      Thank you TLo for summing up my thoughts about the heavy-handedness of this episode. Betty’s speech about what she was thankful for was too much- I get it, Betty is a petulant, shallow child! I  really adore Mad Men but this episode was a little bit of a let down compared to the last couple of brilliant episodes (notably Signal 30 and Mystery Date). I also thought the Smog of 1966 could have been handled much more eloquently than it was. It’s such a fascinating bit of history, but the obviousness of the toxic jealousy symbolism throughout this episode made it feel like just another device to be hit over the head with the theme again.

      I know it’s been said, but I can’t anymore with the Megan storylines. I know she is obviously a huge part of Don’s life now, but would it kill the writers to shed some more light on Dawn? or Joan’s personal life since Greg’s gone? or how about some more unresolved sexual tension between Stan and Peggy? Thankfully, Sally got to shine a bit more this season.

      As much as Ginsberg annoys me, I have to admit I did love his idea. Don’s devil pitch made me cringe harder than the drunk Life Cereal one he did last season.

      /end rant

    • andi56

      Actually, Ginsberg is getting to be the best thing on the show!

      Considering what he’s been through, do you really think the line from Don stung? Nope. Because he’s heard far worse, and he know it was a lie. 

      • msdamselfly

         I thought Ginsberg was great in this episode–he’s like the only real, down to earth person with a heart.

    • twinkiecowboy

      Did anyone else catch the pictures of cartoon devils next to a milkshake and piece of pie on the Weight Watchers’ blackboard?

    • judybrowni

      I remember “pollution inversions” being announced in New York in the early ’70s: experienced my one and only migraine that knocked me out for a day due to one. 

      My father in suburban New Jersey always called NYC “that dirty city” and couldn’t understand why my brother and I wanted to live there.

      Yeah, it was dirty, and rundown: but that made it affordable for kids in their 20s who didn’t care who didn’t want to be there, more New York for us!

      • Sweetbetty

         I was surprised to find that the toxic smog event really did happen since I have absolutely no memory of it and it appears that it was quite newsworthy at the time.  Then I saw that it happened on November 24, the day after I had given birth to my first child.  It was a difficult birth and I had been totally put under so it’s understandable that I wasn’t keeping up with the news for a few days.  It’s very creepy to find out about that now.  It goes along with the Dark Shadows theme since the TV show was always set in fog it seems.

    • Daniel E Prieto

      With everybody turning against each other, it’s really hard to imagine
      SCDP surviving past this season. It’s one thing to have a little bit of
      competition among the workers to incentivize them to work hard. It’s
      quite another when everybody hates each other and is secretly plotting
      to sabotage each other.

      Clearly, the consensus was that Ginsberg’s idea was the best and Don put his ego before the best interests of the firm. It’s hard to imagine working for someone in the creative field who is more interested in covering for themselves than in promoting your best work. At that moment, Don became “the man” in my mind rather than the underdog I had always considered him as in the ad business.

      • greenwich_matron

        Don’s action was ultimately self destructive. Deciding to go with his own proposal was peevish, but his lack of tact with Ginsberg was stupid. This is not the man who elicited slavish devotion from both Pete and Peggy.

        • asympt

           Actually, he slapped Pete down pretty similarly back in the day.

          • greenwich_matron

            I thought it was different. Pete really had the goods on Don, and Bert’s counsel was exactly the type of thing I’m talking about. Also, Don didn’t really respect Pete until later, and Don knows how valuable Ginsberg is. 

            On the other hand, maybe he will get the same beaten puppy reaction.

            • asympt

              He was dismissive of Pete well before Pete tried to blackmail him.

            • greenwich_matron

              Agreed. He had no respect for Pete at all. 

    • rosiepowell2000

      I’ve noticed that many fans continue to label Betty Francis as “childish”.  I do not deny that she can be childish.  But . . . all of the other major characters have ALSO consistently behaved in a childish manner.  From my years of viewing the series, other characters have been just as consistently childish has her.  Many would point out these moments of childish behavior, but they are not persistently labeled as childish, like Betty.  Why?  

    • http://twitter.com/phoebenorth Phoebe North

      Peggy sure is drinking and smoking at work a lot. I think something is going on with her–the drinking scenes all announce themselves pretty loudly.

      • sarahjane1912

        But for the most part, the creatives aren’t downing several fingers of whiskey/vodka/gin; they’re drinking beer. Okay, so they might not have a bar in the office [like Don/Roger/etc] but they could afford spirits if they’d like, I think. But beer is no way as ‘alcoholic’ as the stuff being drunk by the higher-ups; it’s more of a thirst-quencher and a relaxer. They’re also drinking close to official ‘finishing time’ [and they'll be continuing to work after the accounts/secretaries/other office staff have gone home].

    • http://twitter.com/mirrormirrorxx Paola Thomas

      I’m officially totally and completely over Megan.  This is turning into the Megan Show and she is just not that interesting as a character, nor is Jessica Pare’ a talented enough actress.  It seems that we’re either supposed to be in love with her or jealous of her (and if we hadn’t worked that out yet, the show TELLS us several times an episode), yet we are given very few reasons to think like that – she isn’t witty like Roger, or wise like Joan or Lane or Bert, nor is her character developing in an interesting way like Peggy’s or Pete’s, nor is she stoically making the best of things like Ken and Trudy or even trying to something meaningful with her life. She just comes a across as intellectually pretentious, narcissisitic and utterly self-absorbed.

      And not only is she boring, as a character she makes DON seem boring. And that is truly problematic for the show, as whether they like it or not he is the core of the drama.  I was one of the people who was convinced that Megan had tp have hidden depths of villainy or a deep dark secret, ANYTHING, to make her more intriguing.  But it seems that she is just another beautiful woman who wants to be an actress and there are no hidden depths.

      And yet the show seems to be obsessed with her.  Next week we’ll probably see her landing a wonderful role, curing cancer and winning a Nobel Prize, all while pulling together a marvellous Christmas feast without one stunningly gorgeous hair out of place, while far more interesting characters such as Joan, Lane and Bert are reduced to walk-on parts, and characters that could have interesting, such as the Dawn the secretary and Stan are reduced to extras.

      I am reduced to hoping that she falls off the balcony pronto quick, just so that she’ll get less screen time.

      • Sweetbetty

         “I was one of the people who was convinced that Megan had to have hidden
        depths of villainy or a deep dark secret, ANYTHING, to make her more
        intriguing.”                       I’m still not convinced that she doesn’t.  The previews showed her father talking on the phone about something I couldn’t understand but it sounded sinister.  We don’t actually know that acting is the “passion” he referred to when speaking to her about giving up.  He has unpopular political leanings.  She say’s she’s his favorite child.  Perhaps he has been indoctrinating her since childhood into his political beliefs and has been grooming her to perform some radical act.  I dunno.  I just think there is still more of Megan to be revealed.

        • egl48

          I hope there is more to be revealed.  Otherwise, I just don’t get the focus on her.  She isn’t that interesting and she it taking way too much time away from the characters we’ve grown to love.

        • http://twitter.com/mirrormirrorxx Paola Thomas

          I so hope you’re right, but the more she dominates and the more perfect she seems, the bigger the payoff has to be, without a making a nonsense of her character to date.  And speaking of the parents, she certainly didn’t get her sunny optimism from them, so maybe she is putting on a show to an extent.   Nothing about Megan really makes SENSE to me.

          Maybe the best we can hope for is that she falls off the balcony and then Don can never love again because the memory of Perfect Megan will haunt him forever.   

          • egl48

            We already had the perfect Anna, which was so boring and unbelievable.  I sure hope we aren’t going to get the perfect Megan now.

            • Anna Bergman

               Anna wasn’t boring to me because her life had been hard.  She was always perfect to Don though and that did get boring.

          • formerlyAnon

             “and then Don can never love again”

            Bwahahahaha!

          • Sweetbetty

             “I so hope you’re right, but the more she dominates and the more perfect
            she seems, the bigger the payoff has to be, without a making a nonsense
            of her character to date.”                     Anyone remember anything politically or socially upheaving happening in 1967?  Probably too many to count.  I’m thinking if there was a bombing or riot or some other incident that killed a number of people that Megan could become one of them.  She could be pressured by her dad to sneak off to be a part of the incident without even letting Don know; by telling him she was going to an audition or acting class or something.

            • Aurumgirl

              In Canada the FLQ were active in Quebec, targeting many places with bombs, kidnapping local and international politicians and diplomats, and basically warehousing ammunition in various places throughout the province.  This all culminated in the October Crisis in PQ in 1970–the Prime Minister responded by implementing Martial Law in Canada, shocking at any time but especially at a time when the country was not at war. 

              Quebec was going through a long transition period where political power that had long been held by the Catholic Church (which was stifling) was finally giving way, and the Quebecois were beginning to speak up for and create political power of their own not only in their own province but also within the larger context of Canadian politics.  In any case, in 1970, the only unpopular political view to have was to support Trudeau’s imposition of the War Measures Act–people in Quebec were infuriated at the threat to civil liberty the act represented.  We’re not quite in the October Crisis yet in Mad Men (that would come in 1970), but the FLQ had already begun (from 1963 or so) to make headlines with their activities–many people were injured by their bombings. 

              The FLQ were separatists.  They were not leftists so much as they were nationalists.  That desire to separate from the rest of Canada has never been unpopular in Quebec because there has long been a severe inequality for the Quebecois when compared to English Canada.  Megan’s father’s political leanings, or the little we know about them, weren’t specifically separatist so much as they were typically left leaning, which would not have contradicted with his academic, social, or economic position at the time (still wouldn’t today, I think, in Quebec).  I don’t think his politics would have been unpopular–they would have been mainstream and reflected the political change taking place in the province and the city at the time.  If you want a clearer picture, I found this clip of an old news broadcast about Quebec history at the time on youtube (at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PihGpM9-yi4)

              All of this happened in Quebec, though, and I’m sure no one in the US noticed.   That’s okay, people younger than I am know nothing about the events because it’s rarely taught as history here in Canada anymore (unless you’re Quebecois).  I do remember the photos that were everywhere at the time–one of James Cross seated on a trunk filled with dynamite, hands bound, facing the camera–he’d been kidnapped by the FLQ and they made sure that photo was on every front page in the nation.  I was a little kid at the time and I remember it certainly felt like people were terrified of what might happen next, as one other official had been kidnapped too (he was later found murdered). We saw nothing of the police state presence where I was (I grew up in Toronto) but I bet  Montreal felt like they’d been put under siege.

              That’s why I’m amazed to see this level of attention to historical detail in the writing for this show:  even though Montreal is so close to NYC, I don’t think many Americans knew about what was happening then–and I certainly don’t think most Americans would know anything about it now. 

      • msdamselfly

         I agree that Megan is not compellingly interesting and my empathy for Don is diminishing partly as a result of this unconvincing relationship. I think Megan seems phony and that Jessica Pare is always self-consciously posing for the camera. 

        • LesYeuxHiboux

           I think Megan is a very “actressy” person, running through a series of exaggerated stereotypical poses between tantrums. She was the flawless receptionist, the perfect mother/mistress supportive secretary, Maria Von Trapp, the coquettish “It Girl”  making the men drool, the cool stepmom, the dutiful daughter…I don’t think we’ve seen the real Megan yet, and I think it’s going to be a huge surprise when we do.

      • http://twitter.com/vickiboardman Vicki Boardman

        I agree 100% with everything you’ve said, especially about how Megan is making Don seem boring! Betty was at least an interesting foil for Don in their home life scenes, and jeez, even Midge was more complex. Flailing off the balcony melodramatically would be just fine with me.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129137319 Paula Pertile

          In reply to the ‘enough of Megan’ sentiments in general, by all  - I wonder if this is all a really really looooong set up for some really shocking “boy I didn’t see THAT coming” kind of ‘end’ to her character. (although we’ve all speculated about her going off the balcony, wondered what the empty elevator shaft was all about, etc.). 

          Maybe she’ll peel back her face one day to reveal she’s really some kind of alien …

    • Jane_Lane

      I was actually completely horrified by the moment with the Reddi Whip can, I mean, I’ve done it and I doubt there are many who haven’t, but Betty being so consumed with appearances it was almost like a rock bottom moment. And, being honest, I like Don’s pitch better than MIchael’s. However, I have a weird sense of humor, and the thing that sold it for me was Jon Hamm doing the evil voice and the Mr. Burns fingers.

      And I can’t even lie, I’m enjoying the crap out of how much Roger hates Pete right now, but if he’s not careful, he’s going to bankrupt himself trying to screw Pete over.

      • sweetlilvoice

        I thought the evil voice was great too, it would have made a better commercial than print ad for that reason.

      • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

        The show obviously wanted us viewers to think Ginsberg’s idea was better than Don’s, but it wasn’t, IMO. There’s often an element of cruelty in Ginsberg’s stuff that taints his pitches, and this one was a good example. In the cruder present day, where sensibilities are dulled and casual violence is mostly seen as entertaining, such a campaign wouldn’t raise eyebrows, but in 1966 and even some years later the violence inherent in that idea would have been off-putting. If I had been the CD on that account I wouldn’t have presented Ginsberg’s pitch, either.

        • sarahjane1912

          I’m not sure I agree [with apologies]. After all, this era had several violent cartoons in the cinema and on TV eg Bugs Bunny et al, Tom and Jerry [some of whose exploits would put Itchy and Scratchy to shame!]. 
          And don’t forget films like Psycho [1960] and The Birds [1963], to name but two, which had pretty graphic violence depicted on screen. By 1966, people had also been exposed to footage from Vietnam, screened right into their living rooms, so I don’t know that the slapstick ads conceived by Ginzo would have raised too many eyebrows.

          • rowsella

            Laurel & Hardy and The Three Stooges were also very popular with adults who grew up with them.

            • sarahjane1912

              Absolutely! I knew there were more examples that would support slapstick being accepted rather than questioned in Ginzo’s ads for Sno-Ball. Thanks. :-)

      • Anna Bergman

         Maybe but Pete just seems like a time bomb.   I think Roger is so childish that he can hate Pete without letting it really disturb him

    • Pants_are_a_must

      Betty’s shitty doings cause shitty reactions in the viewers too; like gloating at how miserable she looks, picking at her nouvelle cuisine-style Thanksgiving plate. She’s like a black hole of unhappiness, sucking everyone into her orbit.

       I would point out, though, that Sally’s confrontations of both Don and Megan were very telling: Megan is a “friend”, not a step mom. Don is someone who will not take her shit anymore, but won’t belittle her either. She’s a teenager who asks to be treated as an adult, only to realize that once she gets it, being a child again is out of the question.

      I wonder where they’re going with Dom vs Ginsberg; Don’s position as the creative genius in SCDP has deteriorated as fast as Pete Campbell’s mental state. Is Ginsberg here to truly effect a change in the SCDP hierarchy, or is he there to push Don back into what he used to do? Because the Sno-ball campaign was nothing if not a pre-game, and the season is about to start.

    • Susan Crawford

      While this week’s script was more heavy-handed than necessary, there were some moments of sheer genius. Megan and her acting buddy running lines for her friend’s audition for “Dark Shadows” was just hilarious. Now that we’re in the re-make whirlwind thanks to the Burton/Depp team, hearing the insanely cheesy dialogue from the original series was delicious.
       
      And this scene was the perfect chance to point out that Megan will not always have an easy time of it as a would-be actress. She will be perceived as a dilettante, dabbling a well-pedicured toe into the shallow end of the acting pool, as her friend snaps at her. But Megan’s sincerity wins out, and she admits that, yes, she IS jealous that she didn’t get the audition for the role. It will be fascinating to see what happens when Megan DOES get a part, won’t it?
       
      Her interactions with Sally this episode were most telling. Megan shares a classic acting exercise with Sally – keep your eyes open and express a deep emotion through them. Think about something that makes you sad . . . and lord knows, little Sally has plenty in her short life to make her think sad thoughts, doesn’t she? But Sally is so watchful that she sees Megan’s “sad eyes” and stores that moment away.
       
      Of course, we all knew that this family tree assignment was going to create some havoc for Don, Betty, Megan and – of course – Sally. And sure enough, it did. Betty read the sweet note Don had left for Megan on the back of their son’s rather bloody drawing of a harpooned whale (and I’ll bet Betty felt just like that, only without the cheery smile). And later, seeing the apartment in all it’s non-suburban glamour, complete with slender Megan slipping into a stylish little top . . . it was all too much.
       
      And when Megan kissed the children with what seemed like real affection – well, the die was cast.
       
      This was an episode where, frankly, I wanted to shake Peggy. Her pitch for SnoBall was truly lame: very derivative, and with a limited audience. And once Ginsberg and Don came up with their pitches, she went along. I know a lot of what happens at SCDP does involve going along to get along, but I thought Peggy had by now developed more oomph.
       
      Once again, Ginsberg’s pitch involves a subversive, dark kind of appeal: hit the powerful, in-command types smack in the face with a SnoBall, and laugh at their loss of dignity. Don, who has made plenty of deals with the devil, also goes to the dark side – his pitch implies that SnoBall (creativity) can beat the devil.
       
      Roger’s end run at the Manischevitz account, at Bert’s urging, was a wonderful storyline. Two old-timers plotting to one-up Pete and recapture their own brands of mojo. And when Roger told Bert that he was divorcing Jane, and Bert checked his watch as if to time the length of the marriage, I laughed out loud! I also laughed at Roger’s meeting with Ginsberg, but I have a sneaking suspicion this whole thing is going to blow up in Roger’s face.
       
      The dinner scene with the Manischevitz clients – and Jane – was classic Roger. Suave, glib, funny, blandly offensive yet charming. And the arrival of the son triggered off a little frisson with Jane. But of course, when Roger brought her back to the new apartment he bought for her . . . ah, well. You knew THAT was on, didn’t you, dear little fawns? And then in the morning light, Jane mourns that Roger has once again tainted her new beginning.

      Betty’s Weight Watchers sessions were wonderfully done. She has lost a bit of weight, but obviously, her depression has still got her in its grip, and when things get tough, a blast of Reddi-Whip is necessary. (Loved that she spat it out, too!) One thing that occurred to me during the Weight Watcher meetings: Betty is learning a new language, and she uses it with her husband to very good effect.

      When he is worried about whether he has backed the wrong horse, Betty reminds him that they are each there for one another. His problems are hers, and vice versa. They are there to help one another, to be strong for one another. Lovely.

      But then I recalled something a therapist said to me: depression is often anger turned inward. And sure enough, Betty is an angry woman, all right. “Ask Megan about Anna,” she tells Sally, after revealing Don’s first marriage to the child. Now THAT is some deep-seated anger and resentment made even more evil by putting Sally right in the middle of a story that is bound to hurt and confuse her even more than she has been already.

      Pete’s soft-porn daydream was hilarious, I thought. Clearly, he is now obsessed, even snapping out to The Philanderer that he might just have to fuck his wife. “Good luck with that,” chuckles The Philanderer. Hmmm. This is sure to end well, amirite?

      Don pulls a nasty trick out of his bag by leaving Ginzo’s sketch in the cab. But since he nailed the account with a little help from the devil, all is well. Except that Don has made a serious enemy. And Ginsberg has been given the patented Draper “squashed you like the bug you are” treatment. Uh-oh. Cue up the “Dark Shadows” theme music!

      Last, but not least, Thanksgiving, and Betty’s plate . . . “I have everything I want . . . ” including one forkful of seweet potatoes, one brussel sprout and a lonely piece of turkey with no gravy. Ah, yes, let’s snatch happiness from the sky, as the end-credit song suggests.

      Can’t wait for the costume re-cap on Wednesday. This was a rich episode in that department.

       
       

      • Sweetbetty

         “And when Megan kissed the children with what seemed like real affection – well, the die was cast.”         Yes, I took careful note of that.  It was just killing Betty that there seemed to be genuine affection between her kids and their stepmother.  Just one more reason to hate her.

        • Susan Crawford

          And have you noticed that whenever Betty calls Sally, she snaps out, “Sally! Get in here!” And her tone of voice is always threatening? Even when she has good news, such as telling Sally her teacher had called to say she had gotten an A on her family tree project? No smile, no hug, no warmth.

          • Sweetbetty

             It seems Gene is the only one of her children I can recall her ever showing warmth and affection to and that may have been just because he was an infant and needed constant holding and attention.  Betty is the kind of “good mother” that sees that her children are clothed and fed and do well in school but is incapable of showing real motherly love to.  But then, that may be the same way she was brought up.

          • sarahjane1912

            Ohhhhh I know! Golly that brought back memories for me. My mother was definitely out of the Betty playbook [complete with the pre-weight-gain size 4 figure, perfect clothes, pearls and an achingly spotless house etc] and whenever she called my name [in full] I got the chills. I always thought I was going to be in trouble even if I knew I hadn’t done anything wrong. Poor Sally. :-(

      • sweetlilvoice

        Great post! 

    • Jessica Goldstein

      Apologies if this has been said already. I interpreted the wrong horse” line different than many. I was wondering if Betty wasn’t so much thinking that Don was the wrong horse as much as wondering if Henry was. After all, she’s in a gothic house in Rye with an overbearing mother-in-law and an older husband whose career might have just taken a wrong turn. And she’s gotten fat. Meanwhile, the one she left behind, the one who was no good, is doing the single most exasperating thing possible: cleaning up his act for the next one. THIS Don Draper pays attention, leaves little notes behind, lives in the city, and isn’t tied down with full-time kids. His wife is younger than Betty, thinner than Better, and getting to try out a career in a way Better never could. Honestly, I probably would have considering eating the whole can of Redi Whip myself, and I don’t even like “desert toppings”.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YAMNQMUGFM4NNSPAQLZRODSD5I Angela

         Yes! The look on her face said it all, even thought it was Henry saying, “I backed the wrong horse.” Just like the look on Peggy’s face last week, when Megan left, and Stan said, “Reality hit her. You work your ass off for months, and for what? Heinz. Baked. Beans.”

        • MarinaCat

          I totally agree. I think in Betty’s head, she was clearly comparing the current horse race between Don Draper and Henry Francis.

      • formerlyAnon

        “the one who was no good, is doing the single most exasperating thing possible: cleaning up his act for the next one”

        Absolutely. The ultimate button-pusher, and Betty’s got ‘em to be pushed. ETA: I don’t understand why anyone’s opinion of Betty was changed by her petty trouble-making in this episode. Her repertoire of coping skills for handling stress, hurt, anger and jealousy has been shown to extend from dreadful to nonexistent.

      • Susan Crawford

        I agree, Jessica. I think Betty definitely wonders whether she backed the wrong horse when she jumped into marriage with Henry. He came with BIG baggage – in the form of his mother, whose very being seems to point out her own sad future to Betty. And there she is in that mausoleum of a house, with Weight Watchers meetings as her primary social life. And even though her marriage to Don was a nightmare, I think Betty IS very, very jealous of what Don has with Megan.

        I’ve always seen Betty as an insecure, selfish person  who was always overindulged and given everything she wanted. And when she got what she wanted, it was never quite enough, and she wanted more. And when she gave something up, as she did when her marriage to Don ended, the very thought of someone else having it was galling to her.

        She is poison, all right. Pass the Reddi-Whip!

        • rowsella

           I thought that Don was the wrong horse.

        • Anna Bergman

           maybe there is a story about the house which will come out.  Betty stayed on in the Ossining house with the excuse that she couldn’t find anything else.    If she doesn’t like the mausoleum why did they buy it?  Finances?

          • Sweetbetty

             Someone else mentioned the house being one of the choices Betty made (which I doubt very much she cleans herself) but it’s never been made clear how they ended up in that house.  I just have a feeling it wasn’t a choice Betty made; I’m still leaning towards it being in Henry’s family but maybe there’s another story as to how they ended up in it.

            • A Reeves

              Remember the fainting couch?

              They are in *that* house because that is the way Henry sees her–as quaint and old fashioned. My thoughts are only half formed on this, so I hope this makes some sense.

              As a good wife, (and we know Betty was raised to be a good wife), Betty cannot disabuse Henry of his notion of her–hence the house–Henry must have seen it as the “perfect” house for his virtuous and old fashioned Betty –and hat the heck could Betty say or do?

              (I think that’s why she stayed in Don’s house in Ossining over-long–you could argue that on some level she “knew” she would be entombed once she fully became Henry’s wife).

              Seeing Don and Megan’s appartment simply brought home to her the trade off she made. Their dynamic is essentially the same–older man, younger second wife. Only Betty became older–and Don got younger.

              That Henry is the “better” husband doesn’t make any difference to someone as narcissitic as Betty.

              He is only as real to her as her ideas of what he thinks of her. Thus her stilted, weird speech about figuring out things together. (Seriously, would Betty really even have a clue?) But it is what she thinks he would expect her to say. Fortunately, WW has given her the words she needs. I loved the banter about “can this be tomorrow?” When it is all said and done, Betty really did marry the better man even though she cannot appreciate it.

              With Don, she could never have become overweight. At first, I thought it was a cheeky way of showing that her relationship with Henry was “healthier” just because she could “let herself go.” (What a horrible expression.) But that isn’t it. Henry truly doesn’t have any expectations of her “physically” so her fat is not a symbol of her emancipation, as I had (rather naively) hoped.

              As for the logistics of the house–I don’t think that’s been made clear nor will it be.

              More and more I wish there was someone out there to discuss the sets like Tom and Lorenzo discuss the clothes. It’s endlessly fascinating to me. 

        • Lisa_Cop

          Most narcissists have not been overindulged but rather had deficient parenting. That’s why they can only think of themselves.

          • Susan Crawford

            It would seem so, Lisa_Cop. Betty always seems to act out of impulse and frustration, with little or no empathy. How her words and actions affect others is not foremost in her mind. Which is why her Weight Watchers “therapy” is intriguing, since those meetings are all about support for others, for sharing feelings, and for reaching out. And her visits to Sally’s therapist also gave her a chance to share and to feel support.

            But I always feel that the sad, angry, unempathetic Betty is simmering away just under the surface. Maybe she tried (unwittingly?) to hide that person under her fat, but no amount of compulsive eating can cover it up completely. And her thoughts are focused squarely on herself . . .

        • sarahjane1912

          “I think Betty definitely wonders whether she backed the wrong horse when she jumped into marriage with Henry. He came with BIG baggage …”
          .. and now Betty’s carrying the baggage. Snigger [sorry].

          Seriously though, I agree with this and would also add that Betty could also be thinking: with Don I was thin and gorgeous [if unhappy] but with Henry I’m fat [and still unhappy].

        • rowsella

           I don’t think that WW is her only social life.  She and Henry often go out.  She has friends.  Henry sometimes has to travel for work reasons –just like any other couple.  She is a housewife with children to raise.  Betty realizes that Don never loved her and it hurts.  She wasted her youth on him.

          • sweetlilvoice

            Wasted her youth on him…a poignant image. So true.

          • sweetlilvoice

            Wasted her youth on him…a poignant image. So true.

      • kcarb1025

        But it was Betty – let’s face it – who chose her new house and how to “decorate” it and her new husband, whose age she knew when she married him. She chooses what food she buys and what and how much she puts in her mouth. She chooses what to do (or not do) with her ABUNDANT free time. For the duration of her first marriage and halfway into her second one, she had another woman raising her kids, cleaning her house, doing half her laundry and cooking half her meals. She could still have that now if she wanted because she can more than afford it. I’m through 5.5 pages of comments here and there appears to be no disapproval that Betty would think it is SHE who bet on the wrong horse, as imo there should be. 
        For the majority, it appears to be an accepted and acceptable! thought for her to have and that is stunning. If anyone bet on the wrong horse, it was indeed Henry.

      • rowsella

         I’m pretty sure she was thinking of Don.  He lied to her on such a basic level– her name isn’t even really her name…  He was a deserter, married before her (never told her) and then cheated on her continuously.  She worked so hard to be so gorgeous for him, keep a nice home and raise his kids (granted with some household help) and he sleeps around with all manner of women.  I’m shocked he didn’t giver her an STD.  Then, on top of that he insults her intelligence and  gaslights her. I’m pretty sure she was not thinking of Henry who obviously loves her and accepts her. 

        Most people accept when they get married they will have inlaws.  Her MIL was helpful in watching her children when the couple needed to travel.

    • P M

      No; just brown (yeah,me too, so I’m allowed to say that ;) ) :D

    • MichaelStrangeways

      ITA on the heavy handedness of the writing this season…It’s like “Mad Men” for Dummies. Yes, we understand that we’r progressing into the late 60′s and people did become more open about expressing their feelings but is it necessary for ALL the characters to do it so blatantly?

      But, it was still fun to see Sally channel all her pre-teen bitchiness and push some buttons.

    • Qitkat

      deleted

    • nycfan

      I did not take Betty’s Thanksgiving to be an open statement of theme so much as Betty saying aloud (second part) what she would more likely simply think and demonstrating that her pep talk to Henry was not exactly a sign of a turn-around, though a step in the right direction for her.  First, she got her psychiatric help from Sally’s shrink, now from weight-watchers, and her abject misery about her own appearance has taken her down a notch and made her even more jealous than she might have been of Megan.  The pettiness of trying to poison Megan and Don by telling Sally about Anna (I presume thinking Megan knows nothing about Anna) was a low but also rang true, to me.  Sally’s calculated response and embellishment of how the situation went down, aimed straight at Betty’s heart, was colder still, although as a child and product of Don & Betty, it’s hard to be as dismayed with Sally when she exacts psychic payment from Megan and then brings the boomerang home for Betty.

      Roger, on the other hand, clearly and openly stated the theme of the season, but at least it was amusing.  And the guy seriously needs to take his own advice and quit carrying so much cash.  Does he have to buy another apartment now that he despoiled the new one?

      Overall, this is my least favorite episode of the season; it had its moments, but overall felt leaden compared to what has otherwise been a tremendous season.  All those layers of jealously weighed me down and the continuing confirmation of Don having let his own talent slip through his fingers over the last two years is surprisingly frustrating.  I should feel like he totally deserves it, but watching him flail for his lost mojo is kind of depressing. 

      Oh well, at least it was at least leavened with humor, largely supplied by Roger. Oh, and Stan.  I’ve warmed to him as a supporting character, maybe b/c it always feels like to me he has Peggy’s back but also he seems to see the place for what it is, nothing more or less, and is pretty sanguine about it all, which is a great counter-balance to nearly everyone else there.

      • the_archandroid

        I totally agree re: Stan.  He’s gone from an obnoxious idiot to a very sharp observer who still manages to keep his objectivity.  I am on the Stan Train.  Harry on the other hand is rapidly turning into a smarmy TV exec… yuck. 

        • Sweetbetty

           I wanna know more about Stan.  In the beginning he was all about sexist comments but we’ve never seen any indication that he has a girlfriend or even dates women.  He brought his sailor friend to Don’s BD party, stays late at the office, never has mentioned anything that he does outside the office.  I realize he’s a fairly minor character, but I wanna know more :-)

          • susu11

            I want to know more about Stan too! I love watching the evolution of his and Peggy’s work relationship. I have to say though there have been indications that he dates women. He mentioned in one episode about a ‘big breasted’ girl he was out on a date with I think in “Far Away Places”. And I think he mentioned that the sailor was his cousin. I don’t think he has a girlfriend though because he seems as work-oriented as Peggy (the late nights) as well a seeming like a bit of a cad.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1555680075 Stephanie Lucas

            Go back and replay the scene with Peggy in the hotel and I think you’ll have your answer ;-)

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

            I think the sailor was Stan’s cousin.

    • greenwich_matron

      Ginsberg’s pitch hinted at some serious authority issues. He equates pigs, cops, and Hitler, and ambushing someone with a snowball in the face isn’t exactly good clean fun. Given that the product was marketed to kids, would these two campaigns really have been uncontroversial in 1966?  

      • aquamarine17

        i was hit in the face by a hard snowball in junior high and it was incredibly painful. I think it was my forehead or my eye area. i cried immediately. the guy who threw it was surprised and apologetic since he must have thought it was going to be good clean fun or it was a mis-aim, I forget. i thought this ad idea was ridiculous. a fun snowball in the back is one thing, but in the face, not fun.

        • sarahjane1912

          Snowballs CAN hurt, true, but the ‘idea’ most people have of snow is that it’s soft and powdery even if life experience proves otherwise. I’ve fallen down on enough icy snow surfaces when learning to ski to know how unpleasant it can be, but the image I still retain is that snow is wonderful and cold and soft and fun. I can see why a snowball in the face in an ad like this might not be seen as painful; after all, the snowball flurry that results from the hit on the policeman’s cheek looks more like cream pie than icy snow!

          • aquamarine17

            sadly, i think to get a snowball to be able to be thrown, they need to be packed and usually are hard. probably anyone who has been hit in the face has a bad memory of it. the ad looked icy to me, not like cream pie. a bad image for selling, IMO.

    • lauraq99

      Don’s devil in the Snoball ads was presiding over a litany of the 7 deadly sins this week, with a heavy dose of envy, greed and gluttony.

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      I think with this episode we’re seeing Megan’s true role this season: the evil stepmom. 
      No, she’s not evil. But children of divorce often lash out at their stepparents, stepmothers especially. And the parent-vs-friend dilemma is very real. Mad Men would be remiss if they didn’t explore Sally’s experience.

      • rowsella

         It is telling that while Betty told her to ask Meghan about Anna, she didn’t tell her to behave like a little snot and to be disrespectful.  Sally did that all by herself.

    • Vodeeodoe

      I couldn’t believe that Ginsberg could talk to Don like that without being reprimanded or fired. Or Sally for that matter. Back then if a kid talked to an adult like that there would be some punishment involved. Also I thought Jane was a little melodramatic. The house wasn’t even put together yet. One tryst couldn’t destroy a brand new apartment. She’ll get over it. There are so many disgruntled employees now that I’m waiting for a mass jumping of the ship – which could potentially kill SCDP. I wish they would let Betty evolve and be happy about something – anything, for a change.

      Also, I think Sally needed to know about Anna and all of the rest of it. Better to do it now than find out her dad is pretending to be Don Draper when she hits her teens, which could send her into the deep end, emotionally and damage her far more than what she’s already experienced.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

        “Also I thought Jane was a little melodramatic. The house wasn’t even put
        together yet. One tryst couldn’t destroy a brand new apartment. She’ll
        get over it.”

        I have no sympathy for Jane.  How can she make a clean start from Roger if Roger pays for the apartment?  She will really a spoil brat.

        • Vodeeodoe

           You’re absolutely right. I didn’t even think about that.

      • kcarb1025

        Yes, a LOT melodramatic!! I am really over grown women pouting like that over something so trivial and self-chosen/made!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/JO2ZPMWZR7BENRHIQ7DYGJP2HQ Melanie

      I just loved every scene with Roger in it last night.  The dialogue between him and Ginsberg was HILARIOUS. 

    • Judy_J

      The Manischewitz storyline reminded me that back in the ’60s, Mogen David wine began marketing to the masses.

      • malarkey

        Mad Dog 20/20!! Bum Wine! That one will be a sinker for SCDP.

        • ldancer

          A friend who was around at the time told me that Manischewitz’ ad campaign involved Sammy Davis Jr. holding up a glass and saying, “Man, Oh, Manischewitz!” I should try to find that on Youtube.

          Meanwhile, every Jewish kid probably had the experience of their first tipsiness coming from that horrible stuff!

          • Sweetbetty

             I definitely remember that “Man, oh, Manischewitz” tagline.  I think it might even have been, “Man, oh, Manischewitz, what a wine!”  And there may have been other spokespersons besides Sammy.  I’m not Jewish but I remember ads for Manischewitz and Mogen David wine being all over TV and kinda wondering why we never had any in our house.

            • http://twitter.com/Elissa_Malcohn Elissa Malcohn

              Yep, those were the lyrics.  I can still hear that jingle in my head — and I still remember that terrible saccharine taste.

    • AutumnInNY

      Thank you Tlo for your meticulous attention to subtext and detail and always brilliant summaries.

      Interesting episode last night. I’m no fan of Betty’s as a rule but I have to say, I did feel great empathy for her entrance into Don’s new life. I could almost sense every inch of her pain as she surveyed that incredible apartment and the pretty young bride who took her place. 

      And speaking of, enough please of Megan!  Again, I say she is not that interesting as a character or actress. I’m almost at hitting the mute button every time she opens her mouth but that would be most of the show at this point.

      I did enjoy the scene with her friend who has to rush off to her “real job”, and the reference to Dark Shadows which was casting at the time. I can’t decide if she has made Don dull and staid to contrast her youth appeal or that’s the natural progression of his character. For the first time ever, I’m finding him very boring and especially petty and mean- regarding leaving Ginsberg’s work in the cab and some other not so flattering new traits. He’s got the job, his name’s on the check, he’s their boss, he may feel threatened by their talent (and again youth) but he doesn’t need to bully his creatives in such and obvious and self-centered manner. 

      Hope we see more of Joan soon. One scene a show? She deserves better. Really. 
      In the past the story lines have been pretty balanced, this one seems to be on a mostly one track with the Don and Mrs. Don story. Am I the only one who is hoping this is a one-season marriage? 

      • Judy_J

        I’m hoping it ends before the season is over.

      • Anna Bergman

         We saw a nasty side to Megan’s character while rehearsing with her friend.   Her apology was to say that SHE would have liked the role.  Megan was rude when the other girl asked about Thanksgiving, couldn’t figure out why she was invited since they don’t seem to like eachother

        • AutumnInNY

          Right Anna? Megan the character seems to be very spoiled, and childish when she doesn’t’ get her way and now (Daddy) Don is footing the bill for her vanity pursuits and wonderful lifestyle. I doubt she’s had to do any struggling like her friend who got the Dark Shadows gig and has to wait tables. 

          Something is just off about her. I think its a combination of the actress playing her and the character. I can’t put my finger on it and maybe that’s what Weiner has in mind for what’s coming next. I keep thinking of the terrace balcony…at any rate, correct me if I’m wrong anyone, but I think Megan has had more screen time than almost any other character including Don this season. Or maybe it just feels that way.

        • Sweetbetty

           Hmm, wonder if the friend ventured out in the toxic smog to come to the dinner?

        • sweetlilvoice

          I assumed it was because her friend didn’t have family nearby and Megan was being nice by asking her. You know the food would be good too, probably better than a struggling actor could afford. 

          • Sweetbetty

             I hope she wasn’t expecting everything to be made from scratch.  Did anyone else chuckle when that jellied cranberry sauce came schlurping out of the can?  I don’t think Megan and her friend’s little spat necessarily meant the end of their friendship.  And I think Megan telling her with a smile to bring something sweet to the dinner was sort of her way of saying she wanted things to be smoothed over. 

            • sarahjane1912

              The canned cranberry: comedy gold !!

            • Spicytomato1

              I feel like that can-shaped cranberry sauce is such a perfect representation of that era’s new ideas about convenience in the kitchen. I think “homemade” was equated with old-fashioned and looked down upon at that time. 

              I have a few old cookbooks from that time and it’s sort of charming but mostly mind-boggling how many recipes rely on canned and processed (i.e. jello!) crap. The height of fashion, food-wise, was the elaborate jello mold. It’s still one of my step-MIL’s standbys for “fancy” dinners.

            • Sweetbetty

               I grew up in the 50s & 60s and I think I was nearly an adult before I found out that cranberry sauce came any other way than can-shaped.  My parents weren’t especially adventurous eaters.

    • Jessica Mann Gutteridge

      I did not think the Redi-Whip scene was funny in the least! Really depressing, actually, to see disordered eating in action.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/toodleskitty79?feature=guide AWS

         I see Binging and Purging in Betty’s future…

        • Susan Crawford

          Or diet pills. I know she tried to get them before, and was sidetracked by the cancer-scare, but diet pills were truly ubiquitous in the ’60′s, and would have been available very easily in Betty’s upscale suburban world. Now that she got a good long look at Megan’s great figure, I think she’ll have one hell of an incentive to get back to her fighting weight as fast as possible.

          And Betty on diet pills should be one heck of a beyotch-fest!

          • Sweetbetty

             I spent most of the 70s on diet pills, until they became illegal for the doctor to prescribe.  Then I gained back all the weight I had kept off all that time.  And I know they affected my behavior and I often feel bad about what a better single mother I might have been if I hadn’t been chemically altered for all those years.

            • Susan Crawford

              I was in the same club. And they certainly did have a dramatic impact on behavior and mood – compulsive tidying and straightening, paranoia, nasty cracks and exhaustion. (Not such a stretch for Betty even without the pills!) But as I look back, I regret a lot of what I said, did, and neglected to do. I was skinny – but I was not ME.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1241487378 Lauren Lynch Fox

              I think Betty is going that route too. Betty on diet pills will be “fun”….poor Gene…. I remember women in my family (at the same time period) on diet pills, crazy!Having done some time at Weight Watchers, that has not changed much either. I had to laugh at the sign that said “Vegetables are unlimited”….I think that is my Mantra!

            • sarahjane1912

              Not sure I’d feel THAT sorry for Gene. While Betty’s had a few moments re Bobby, she has more bad mothering decisions [and cruelty too] where Sally is concerned. Boys always have it easier. Sigh. ;-)

            • Jessica Mann Gutteridge

              I thought that was where we were headed from the beginning of the season with Betty. Well, from the beginning of the series, really. SOMEONE has to get hooked on Mother’s Little Helpers, and if not Betty, then who?

              As a WW person myself, I loved seeing a vintage WW meeting!

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/toodleskitty79?feature=guide AWS

             I want to know what happened to the THYROID angle.  In the late 50s and 60s, plenty of women were on Thyroid meds (legitimately) and lost weight because the med sped up their metabolism. 

            • Sweetbetty

               I was put on thyroid med in the mid 90s; never lost an ounce that I could credit to that.

            • http://www.youtube.com/user/toodleskitty79?feature=guide AWS

               Ditto.  But my mum did lose weight back then on her med.  Hers was made from actual animal hormone where as today, Thyroid meds are mostly synthetic.

          • malarkey

            this was my thought too. Betty on diet pills! Then she can go to her WW meetings triumphant. 

          • Qitkat

            My husband was given *diet pills* in the seventies, and after a week of being buzzed and having incredible energy, he came to his senses and realized what he really had been given, and subsequently stopped them cold. He still laughs about the incident.

    • http://twitter.com/Elissa_Malcohn Elissa Malcohn

      My mother had joined a Jack LaLanne gym and dragged me to it when I was in the seventh grade (1970-71). We used to joke about how it sat literally next door to a Kentucky Fried Chicken.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/toodleskitty79?feature=guide AWS

        When I was still in elementary school, my mum brought me to a “Gloria Stevens” gym which was right next door to a doughnut shop.  :-)

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Liz-Norris/26609454 Liz Norris

        Where I used to live, there was a Weight Watchers center in a small strip mall with a Chinese restaurant, a pizza place, a bagel shop, and a bakery. Talk about poor location! I always felt bad for the people who had to walk past all of that to get themselves weighed.

        • sarahjane1912

          Ha ha … reminds me when Miranda ‘Babyweight’ was trying to lose in SATC and she had the Krispy Kreme incident. Also reminds me that my local gym entrance is via a FOOD court [with all those lovely shops selling everything from Indian to Chinese to Pizza to Maccas to ...]. Silly. Tee hee.

          • sweetlilvoice

            That was a great one….she never ate a Krispy Kreme again!

      • sarahjane1912

        (I had posted this several pages up, where it fit better in context. Don’t know why the comment ended up here.)
        Don’t worry, Elissa; your comment fitted in fine with the context of the discussion. :-)

      • Redlanta

         My Mom went to Jack LaLanne  gym also.  The “workout” consisted mostly of one of those electric straps that ,I guess, were suppose to rub the fat off you and the sauna!!  We also watched his exercise show on TV!

    • Qitkat

      I just don’t get the Megan hate. Mad Men is about and always has been about dysfunctional people, often severely dysfunctional people. Just because someone is beautiful and usually sweet-natured doesn’t mean that they are perfect, or don’t have secrets of their own, or are boring and uninteresting. I strongly disagree that Megan is written as if she has no flaws. It’s just a little more subtle at this point. I think there is going to be a BIG surprise revealed about her, coming soon.

      When Don was married to Betty, we saw a lot more of Betty than we do now. I don’t think the focus on Megan is any more out of line than the focus on Betty in earlier seasons.

      • Daniel E Prieto

        In some ways Megan is different than Betty but she’s similar to how Betty once was in the sense that she can skate through life with her charm and good looks. As Joan very astutely pointed out, whether its Megan or Betty it’s the same “type” Don goes after.

        It seems logical why Don wants fidelity at this part of his life: a stable environment for (1) his children and (2) himself. However, I think their relationship is childish and impulsive and I don’t like from an entertainment POV the fact that Don is so happy that he stopped caring about work. His creativity and drive for excellence in work have slipped badly and it’s mostly because of Megan.

        Obviously it’s impossible for the characters to be happy in personal lives, great at their work, and please all of the viewers at the same time.

        • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

          Interesting. I think Don and Megan’s relationship is one of the better, healthier, more mature ones on the show, in spite of Don’s poor instincts and track record regarding intimacy. They actually talk to each other, and — despite blowups, assumptions and misunderstandings — listen, too. Which doesn’t mean that they will necessarily last, but I hope they do, actually. Not all drama has to be based in sturm und drang.

          • rowsella

             Betty and Henry’s relationship seems to be on a more even keel.  There’s no abandonment at rest stops on the highway for instance.  Henry doesn’t have to fight against his nature to not cheat.  They travel well together and show each other respect.  They seem to provide a stable home to raise the children in.  While Don and Meghan’s apt is probably a fun weekend visit for the kids, I can’t envision them being able to manage full time any more than Don could.  I don’t believe their relationship could handle it.

        • Anna Bergman

           I don’t think Don’s fidelity will last.   It takes more than a new marriage for someone to change

          • Glammie

            Yeah, and once he cheats on her, he’ll start lying to her and she’ll pick it all up and she’ll walk.  Unlike Betty, Megan grew up in an openly crazy household–she’ll pick up the signs.  

            • formerlyAnon

              Or, she’ll pick up the same signs Betty did – but she’ll have a confrontation early on, rather than retreating into denial. 

            • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

              Yes, but once she gets accustomed to her lifestyle– without having to work– maybe she will feel trapped and stay married. Cause does anyone think the acting will work out? And good luck getting hired by another agency after quitting SCDP.

            • Glammie

              Good point.  I’m still wary of how Megan basically upped and ran the moment she tasted success.  She’s kind of an interesting contrast to Ken Cosgrove who seems to have quietly developed a successful career as a fiction writer while working a day job.  I continue to feel like we don’t actually know that much about Megan–her supposed perfection is what we’re seeing through Don’s eyes.  

            • rowsella

               I disagree. We see everyone as they are, not through anyone else’s eyes.  Why would Meghan be written differently?

            • Glammie

              She’s not.  We always see Don’s dreamgirls from his perspective in the beginning–Susan floating through the maypole.  Joan’s speech was a tip-off–Megan is like Betty–models/actresses who embody an era’s dreamgirl.  

              Then, once that’s established, we see more and more of the underside.  Megan’s, so far, a nice young woman, but she’s also playing a part–being what she thinks Don wants.  Who she actually is remains unclear, but I assume we’ll see more of it.  

            • greenwich_matron

              She is also an actress and wants to make people happy. Her reactions don’t necessarily reflect what she thinking or feeling. Last week when she breezed into the Cool Whip meeting, she was just confronted by Peggy about lying to her an deceiving Don, but whatever turmoil she was experiencing was completely hidden. Also, this episode showed that she can fake cry. 

              She may not be devious or purposefully deceptive, but she certainly makes it easy for Don to see exactly what he wants to see.

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

               ” I disagree. We see everyone as they are, not through anyone else’s eyes.”What a bizarre thing to say about fictional characters.

            • 3hares

              I don’t understand. Why is it bizarre? They mean that we’re supposed to be seeing what the fictional character is doing and saying, not a distorted version. If Megan walks into a room gracefully w/ a smile, it’s because the fictional character Megan walked into the room. Not because Don imagines her to be graceful and smiling. They get the characters are fictitious. They just don’t think Megan’s more fictitious than the otehrs. 

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              Every fictional character is seen through someone else’s eyes – the writer’s.

            • 3hares

              Yes, I got that’s what you meant (they’re also seen through the director’s eyes on TV I guess), but I think the other person knew that. They were disagreeing that what Megan does or says isn’t even what characters within her own world would see her do or say because she’s being written and directed not just by MW & Co. but by the character Don Draper.

            • rowsella

               I think I was trying to say that no other characters are filtered through another character’s eyes in presentation in the show.  Meghan is who she is — no filter through Don’s eyes as Roger is who he is.  We are not given any insight or interpretation from another character’s point of view –there is no character that functions as narrator.  We are but voyeurs into a sequence of events in the tableaux that Matthew Weiner reveals to us.

          • formerlyAnon

            Sometimes a new relationship can be structured in line with changes the person already is trying to make in their life. But I’m not remotely convinced that Don has ever looked at his cheating and said “I want to live differently than this.”

      • kcarb1025

        I don’t really get it either – although I do have a hunch that at its base is severe envy – because she is truly the modern woman that so many claim they want to be, are, can’t wait to see, etc. Well here she is… and now 98% of what she gets is feces flung at her by the audience. So either people are lying when they express admiration or desire for a modern career girl or… well, back to my hunch.

        • 3hares

          I don’t see anything particularly modern about Megan by 2012 standards. I thought people were positive about Peggy for being the modern woman people claim to want to be.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001998855370 Fatima Siddique

      You should feel guilty for nit-picking. You’re ruining the only good show on TV.

      • formerlyAnon

         ?
        If their work ruins the show for you, no need to read it.

        • sweetlilvoice

          That’s one of the great things about the internet….you can always go to another site.

      • sweetlilvoice

        One of the great things about this blog is that it makes me view the episode with different eyes. Little things become huge, big things small. I appreciate the fine writing! 

      • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

        If you think writing a review with only the mildest of criticisms is capable of “ruining” a show, then it’s perhaps best that you not read anything written about it at all.

      • Jessica Mann Gutteridge

        One of the really good things about T & L is that even with shows they’ve been out front in championing, they haven’t hesitated to criticize where criticism is due.

    • LesYeuxHiboux

      Kiernan Shipka was absolutely outstanding in this episode. Her acting shows incredible nuance (I hope she starts getting some of the roles going to Chloe Moretz between seasons). 

      • sweetlilvoice

        I like her too…she was great on an episode of Don’t Trust the B—-in Apt 23. She and Jason Ver der Beek were going to be in a Freaky Friday type of movie.

      • Laylalola

        Another great young actress is the gal on Game of Thrones playing the youngest Stark girl (currently under cover as a boy).

        • the_archandroid

          That show has a bumper crop of child actors, the girl who plays Arya is excellent, as is the boy who plays Bran, and the chilling talent of the kid who plays Joffrey.  I think they’re comparable to Kiernan Shipka in that regard. They work with intense subject matter and do it so naturally and unobtrusively that it totally pulls you in.  I hope Kiernan continues to be an excellent actress as she ages. 

          • Verascity

            The kid who plays Joffrey is actually not so much a kid! He’s almost 20, IIRC. 

            • the_archandroid

              LOL, very age-ist of me I guess I still consider college kids as “kids” though it’s objectively not true. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf UltimaEsperenza

      If people could look into OUR lives each and every day and see how things interconnect, I am positive that there would be patterns and themes that are invisible to us (as they seem to be to the characters), but as we are entrenched in our own perception, we don’t have the omniscient presence to grant us with the gift of knowing these truths.  Please give this show a break.  After 4+ years, we simply know how these people are. 

      • Sweetbetty

         “Oh wad some power the giftie gie us
        To see oursel’s as others see us!”
                                        –  Robert Burns

        • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf UltimaEsperenza

          Yeah.

      • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

         Please go to another site to read your TV recaps if you can’t handle one that includes minor criticisms.

        • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf UltimaEsperenza

          So, you mean to say that you want a (loyal, daily, DEVOTED) reader to simply fuck off because she has a differing view than you? Who’s really having a harder time handling their criticisms, boys?
          Done and done, and as this will probably be edited and removed from the site all together, I won’t bother o tell your other “bitter kittens” that they should agree with all that you say or get a nasty inbox message from you.
          Sorely disappointed,
          Tammy Hopper

          • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

            No, and you shouldn’t put words in people’s mouths. It makes you look desperate.

            Differing views are obviously quite welcome here, given that each post has a comments section filled with differing views. It’s when people, like yourself, tell us to stop what we’re doing or to do things differently because THEY have a different view than we do – that’s when we suggest that they go somewhere else.

            In other words, we will not “give this show a break” simply because you didn’t like hearing some incredibly mild criticisms. And if such mild criticisms are something you don’t want to read, then you should go to another site and find reviews that are more to your liking, since this is how we have always written about TV shows, going back to the very first posts on this blog.

            You have an option to engage whatever points we made here and argue them with us. You do not have an option to tell us to stop writing what we write or to write things differently in order to please you. It’s very simple. Not a “fuck off” to be found anywhere in there.

    • SuzyQuzey

      I disagree that the scene with Betty and the Reddi Whip was funny. It was sad to me. She had just arrived home, was upset, and went for a quick fix of what she knew would make her feel better (food). But then, she couldn’t even let herself have that small pleasure/release because of her diet. She is as strict with herself as with everyone else, and it feeds her unhappiness.

    • Martha Garcia

      The Closeted Readi-Whip Shame Spiral ™! Who among us hasn’t traveled that path at least once? 

      • sarahjane1912

        Chortle. I did it an hour ago when working my way through the first few pages of the ‘Comments’ for this episode. Only it wasn’t Redi-Whip [is that fake cream? Like ... um ... the Cool Whip from last ep only in a can? I don't know, sorry, don't live in the States] I had real cream [from a can]. Yum. Very naughty, but fun [and I did it, ahem, for research purposes].

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/76MOACGITT5AHEG24N6E7RZWDA Kay

           Too funny sarahjane!  Research is everything ~ glad you were thorough !!  :)

          • sarahjane1912

            *Blush* Cheers! :-)

    • Dlou 212

      Oh–I’m worried about revealing my ignorance about what actually went on in last night’s show, but what exactly DID Roger do to Jane?  Ok, he straight-up used her to make a business connection, but he also was pretty honest about it and bought her an APARTMENT (I’m a New Yorker so just thinking about that rocked my tiny mind!).  Was it the ex-sex?  Admittedly never a great idea but a fairly common occurrence.  Am I right in that I missed something? 
      Also: Betty + Reddi Whip= Cackle of self recognition.

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        It’s implied that he forced her into it. 

        • Dlou 212

          Thanks Sara!  But did he?  They made a point of showing her saying “Wait!”–then Roger pulled back for a moment–they pause and then go right back into it.  I guess that’s when a gent would’ve really stopped, I guess. . .but I feel that it was Jane not accepting responsibility for her own actions, right?  Seemed like a Betty (or Pete) move, doing something and then blaming the person you did it with.  Also–didn’t that apartment look oddly like Don and Megan’s?

          • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

            Well, maybe I should say, that’s what *she* was implying. Did he? I don’t know. Maybe she gave in because she figured she didn’t have a choice.

            • 3hares

              But she did have a choice. I don’t think she was implying that he assaulted her. She was saying that he intentionally got her to the apartment and made a move on her so that the apartment would have memories of him in it when she was trying to keep it free of those.

            • Sweetbetty

               Except that we’ve been given no reason to think that Jane would feel she didn’t have a choice but to let Roger have his way with her.  Have we ever seen Roger force his way onto a woman (unlike Don)?  If anything, Roger seems to be giving in to her every demand.  I think she probably did have second thoughts about going through with having sex with him that night, whether because of lack of birth control or just knowing it would be one more thread still connecting her to him, but she had her thought, Roger respected her wish to “wait”, then she went right along with it.  If she was implying that Roger “forced” himself on her it was only because she knew that he knew that he was still able to sweep her off her feet with his charm, and perhaps prowess in bed.

        • Sweetbetty

           Oh, I don’t agree with that at all.  She responded willingly to him.  In the morning when she realized that he had left his mark in her new place she was angry that he came onto her, knowing that she couldn’t resist him (maybe taking advantage of the alcohol she had imbibed in), but in no way did he force her.  When she asked him to wait or stop or whatever term she used, he did immediately, then she responded to him again and he continued. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1241487378 Lauren Lynch Fox

          I did not think he “forced” her, but there was sort of a power play thing. She went to the dinner because she was Jewish (which I never knew before). She looked lovely and played the part (for the new apartment). I thought she did it willingly (kind of falling for his charm), but then was mad at herself for doing it (knowing it meant nothing to Roger). I thought it was sad, and yes I hope she does go with the wine guy

          • sarahjane1912

            How tacky if she does though [go with the wine guy]. Also found HIS behaviour — and his ogling of Jane — tacky in the extreme. I understand that 1966 was a different time but hey, who on earth flirts that openly with someone else’s WIFE at a dinner [when they've never met before] even IF that person is in the position of being in power [because Roger wants their business]?? Really was quite appalled at that and even though Roger and Jane are getting divorced, I thought Roger was remarkably restrained in response. Until later, of course. ;-)

        • 3hares

          I don’t think that’s implied anywhere.

          • Jessica Mann Gutteridge

            Agree. In fact, they went out of their way to have Jane say “Roger, wait” and he pulled back from kissing her and looked at her. Then they started kissing again. He stopped when she asked him to, and they mutually went forward. I don’t think that moment would have been there if we were meant to read this as Roger forcing himself on her.

            • terekirkland

              For me, I thought Jane’s “wait” was her wondering what this tryst was. Was is them getting back together? Or just sex? I think she knew it was just going to be sex, and convinced herself it was the opposite, which was why she was so mad at herself in the morning and blaming Roger for “ruining” her new apt. But she was the one who let him ruin it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

        “bought her an APARTMENT (I’m a New Yorker so just thinking about that rocked my tiny mind!).” 
        I feel you on that. 

      • Anna Bergman

         He didn’t force himself on Jane, she doesn’t want to be responsible

    • Sweetvegan

      Betty was so sure that Megan didn’t know about Anna. The fact that Megan knew about Anna was further proof that Don’s treating Megan so much better than he ever treated Betty.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1241487378 Lauren Lynch Fox

        I agree. She was trying to hurt Megan (and Sally) and boy did that backfire (and how about the way Megan handled the situation and told Don later). Also the way Sally (who did not like being used by her mother in the end) acted like it was nothing and that Megan explained it all.

        • sarahjane1912

          Or as TLo put it: “she lightly stuck a knife in Betty’s ribs and twisted it”. Fabulous fabulous stuff. 

    • CatherineRhodes

      Very interesting analysis. A couple of thoughts:

      I really like the theme approach to this year’s writing. Reminds me of “Sex and the City” where the fun was not in figuring out the theme, but in watching each character’s interpretation.

      I was glad to see Don pull rank on Ginsburg. I’m really tired of his character and can’t believe he’d be allowed to be so insolent to the agency owner. Peggy and Stan both knew that day was coming and just stood back and let him get his comeuppance.

      Betty is only interesting to me as Sally’s mother, with Sally being the one to watch. Remember how her grandpa told her she was smart? She’s a brilliant little manipulator, that one.

      It was only a matter of time until Megan’s friends called her out as a struggling artist. She is sure to encounter plenty of resentment.

       

    • bellafigura1

      Your bullets at the end are BULLSEYE.  “How Jewish are they?”  What a brilliant line, so perfectly delivered.  Also, I continue to say January Jones is first-rate, as is the kid, Sally. That is some mother-daughter relationship, it’s chilling. I think JJ and Hamm are the best actors on the show.

    • http://twitter.com/sarahofcroydon Lil

      I totally agree. Betty isn’t perfect but in that scene we saw her doing the things that she’d be doing every day, making their food, helping with their homework, trying to enforce some sort of order with the television reward. It makes me wonder what she does when the kids are at Don’s… you can easily imagine the feeling of bitterness at your kids being mothered by somebody else, somebody ‘cooler’ and younger and thinner. It doesn’t make her Anna comments right, but they’re very realistic and  (and show up Don’s continued dishonesty… this is the man who asked Betty to conceal his past from the police!)

      • sarahjane1912

        Not only that … I mentioned in response to someone’s earlier comment re Betty that I thought she might also be resenting the fact that Megan/Don DON’T have to look after the children all the time; they’re ‘weekender parents’ who don’t have to check homework, remember to buy coloured pencils etc … they’re the fun ones with the cool apartment. Betty’s never been the greatest mother [understatement alert!] and I suspect she doesn’t really enjoy doing the day-to-day stuff, in my humble opinion. 

        Re Don/Betty/concealing his past: did he really ask her to conceal it? I thought she did that of her own accord? Maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I thought that the reasoning at the time was that Betty had as much to lose as Don by revealing anything about his past which is why she didn’t say anything. And she was worried for him too, at this time, for that very reason. Correct me if I’m wrong. :-)

        • purkoy28

          I feel like its easy to forget the crap don put betty through, she has 10 years of heartache and lies to deal with. They were together since she was 19 thats not something you can move on from no matter how great your new husband is. I feel she gave into a moment of spite, but I dont blame her, I might have done the same thing in he situation. 

          • sarahjane1912

            Perhaps, perhaps … but to stick one’s daughter in the middle isn’t the kindest of moves, is it? It’s all very well to give in to ‘a moment of spite’ but to use your child in that way seems excessive to me [but very Betty]. Agree about the crap Don loaded on her though; years of resentment to work through there!

            • purkoy28

              Very very Betty for sure. She definatly was trying to stir the shit, but if I were Don I would be worried about her telling the authorities if he doesnt fill her expectations of the moment.

          • Glammie

            How do you figure they’ve been together since she was 19?  She went to Bryn Mawr and worked as a model–that would put her in her early 20s when they met.

    • andi56

      I have to laugh (but in an uncomfortable way) about some of the comments about Ginsberg on this thread. Ironically, some of them are dripping with the same kind of coded anti-Semitism I’ve heard about Jews my whole life; my favorite being “pushy.” Good grief; I feel like I’m back in the 60s. I guess some things never change. 

      • formerlyAnon

        Well, I’d call Ginsberg ‘pushy’ whatever his religion/ethnicity.  And it’s a negative, past a certain point, in an employee, and a positive, to a certain point, in someone who is the boss & is responsible for the business.

        He’s a perfect example (in my mind) of someone who will be happier when he learns enough about the business & forges the relationships so he can start a new firm in which he is a cofounder.  He’s more than got the talent and the drive for the ad business, but he’s not settling smoothly into the role of a subordinate.

    • Megan Patterson

      $20 says young adman Don Draper was probably just as bad. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/76MOACGITT5AHEG24N6E7RZWDA Kay

      Betty telling Sally to “ask Megan” about Ann Draper was telling.  She didn’t say ask your dad, when he was the one with a prior marriage.  She said to ask Megan, conveying that it was Megan’s issue somehow. Then the accusation that Megan lied to her.  I watched that and recognized the usual poison that is fed about stepmothers.  How is this Megan’s fault ~why is this put on Megan, that it’s her failing?  Then, when Megan told Don about Sally’s question about Ann his response is that it’s not her business. Wow, she’s the one taking shit about it. She handled it perfectly in my view after being hit in the face with it. She gave a general answer that said nothing bad about either biological parent and deferred any real information until Don could talk to Sally. He addressed Sally directly about it in a very appropriate manner.  I think at that point a light bulb went off in Sally’s head that sometimes people use others indirectly to hurt others.  She saw the trick and that is why, when Betty later pressed her for information about the Ann Bomb, Sally answered as she did.  She acted like it was no big deal and thanks for bringing it up because it created a fun discussion with Dad and Megan. Snap ~ thanks for screwing with me Mom!

      Betty hoped to hear there was a huge fight.  Instead, Sally casually just said they talked kindly about Ann and looked at pictures.  Not the result Betty was going for. I don’t see Sally as a little conniving bitch, I see her as having her Mom’s number.  It also explains her artless, yet on the surface kind, comment at Thanksgiving dinner that we should eat, she’s hungry.  I have seen a kid go thru that exact sequence of thought, and it happens.

      Not a fan of how Don treated Betty during their marriage, but when we see Betty jealous of Don’s current life, don’t for a minute forget she divorced him for another man. The lie about who Don is was just her excuse, she went to Nevada and divorced him to marry another man.  She got what she wanted and isn’t happy.  She will never be because the world will never revolve around her – but she will always do her best to be sure it does.  

      • MarinaCat

        I think it was established that Megan had spent a lot of time helping Sally with the family tree, so it would be reasonable to assert that it was Megan’s omission and error to fix.

        • sarahjane1912

          Perhaps, but while I agree that Megan no doubt DID help Sally with the family tree, the reason Betty told Sally to ‘ask Megan’ was purely out of spite. She assumed Megan didn’t know about Anna [or even Dick Whitman] so it would cause problems between Don and Megan. I don’t think it was Megan’s omission/error to fix for a minute; it was all about how Betty could ‘get’ to Don in a pretty toxic fashion.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/76MOACGITT5AHEG24N6E7RZWDA Kay

            That is exactly what I meant TLo & SaraJane – it was just spite; she was hoping Megan didn’t know about Anna.  And responding with “I don’t know what your mother has told you” was not putting down Betty – it was a statement of fact.  How much did Betty spew – just that he was married or the whole identity switch, or what?  She was fishing for more of a description from Sally in order to figure out a response and not step on any toes.  No matter how nice Megan is to those kids, how much time she spends, how much crap she puts up with from Betty, she will always be criticized.

            And really, is a prior marriage to Anna, with no children, whom not one person other than Don has met, really needed on a child’s family tree project for school?  I don’t consider it an error by Megan at all. It didn’t really belong on there, it was not an genealogy project.  Did Betty say to add a branch and put Henry’s first wife and daughter – who, if you demand such accuracy from Megan ~ should have been included as step-sister. Betty didn’t bring that up did she???  Nope.  She said to ask Megan about Anna Draper. Angry after snooping around their house and coming across the note. 

            • sarahjane1912

              Ooh, I hadn’t thought about a potential Henry/first wife branch and if Betty was merely being accurate [rather than being quite the nasty piece of work!] then perhaps they should have been there too. ;-)

              PS. Re “How much did Betty spew -” … I haven’t heard the word ‘spew’ since school! *GRIN*

            • rowsella

               Well, Henry isn’t actually Sally’s parent/blood.  She also didn’t tell Sally to print “Dick Whitman” under Don”s name either.

      • purkoy28

        what she wanted was Don to treat her and their marriage like he does to Megan. She cant understand why he is such an open honest loving husband now. She put in the work and Megans reaping the benefits. Megans response was putting down Betty when she said ” i dont know what your mother told you” Megan thinks that all the baggage of the first wife should disapear cause everything should be perfect for her, but she married into a mess of a family and should show some respect for the biological mother.

        • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

          Why should she be showing respect to Betty after Betty went out of her way to start trouble in her marriage?

          • purkoy28

            For the kids, everyone should always try their best for the kids in divorced familys. Maybe not respect but cordial when they are in the same room : )

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

              Even after Betty used one of the kids as a tool to poison Megan’s marriage? Come on. Some of you go a little overboard with your Betty-defending and Megan-hating.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

              I don’t think Betty had some big aim to wreck their marriage. I think she lashed out because she was unhappy. Not that that didn’t put Megan in a tough spot. But I just don’t think Betty thinks three steps ahead like a lot of people suggest. She just does things on impulse. 

            • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

               That doesn’t make the act any less poisonous.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

              of course not just think it was impulsive, not planned. 

            • Sweetbetty

               Even then.  Granted, it takes an exceptional person and many of us fall short, but when the kids are around politeness should reign.  Having said that, I didn’t think Megan was so terrible to Betty.  She was taken by surprise when she walked out of her bedroom to find Betty standing there.  Sure, it was a little catty to say what she did about seeing all of the apartment, but it wasn’t horrible.  She didn’t start screaming at her to get out of her home.  And the kids weren’t even there to witness that exchange.  I thought the two of them were quite civil to each other under the circumstances and if they can keep that up I’m fine with both of them.

            • Glammie

              Thank you! The hate-Megan-just-because is getting a bit tedious.

          • rowsella

            I don’t know that she wanted to start trouble btw Don and Meghan so much as to cause a rift between Sally and Meghan.  It sucks to be the day to day parent.  The weekend parents get to be the glamorous, take Sally to the Beatles concert, shopping for designer clothes good time parents.  As an aside, would it kill Don to stay home with his kids on his visitation weekends?  He gets 2 a month for goodness sake (4 entire days).

    • DesertDweller79

      It almost feels like the writers of “Fringe” have taken over “Mad Men”.  Except while I can just shrug off way-too-obvious dialogue on “Fringe” since they are literally dealing with life and death in most episodes, it is incredibly jarring on this show.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1555680075 Stephanie Lucas

      Random observations:

      1. Does Bobby only ever get to talk when it’s Thanksgiving?

      2. Has anyone brought up the fact that last night’s episode was permeated with occult characters (ie, Devil, Dark Shadows, Evil Blanket of Smog)? For me this evoked ideas of impending death, as has been mentioned

      3. So hated what Don did when he left Ginsberg’s work in the cab. What a shit.

      4. Was it the Wells Rich Greene guys in the photo in the New York Times mag article? i.e. Mary Wells, who I always hoped was who Peggy would evolve into (at least a variation) http://www.amazon.com/Life-Advertising-Mary-Wells-Lawrence/dp/0375409122   

      I am a hopeless TLo recap addict, thanks for all the hard work you do on this  -S.

    • royinhell

      Have we discussed the crayon drawing of a big fat WHALE by Bobby Draper?  Though it may not have been intended to mock Betty, that’s what upset her (because everything is always about HER); turning it over to find a mash note to ‘Lovely Megan’ made her so hurt she told Sally to ask about Anna.  Because like a child, if someone hurts your feelings (even unintended) you hurt them back.  

      • sarahjane1912

        I’ve wondered about the drawing too. Bit obvious [Betty = whale, harpooned no less!] and what exactly inspired Bobby to draw it in the first place? It wasn’t part of his homework, so where was the inspiration for it? Still scratching my head over that one. Agree about the hurt feelings you mention though; and Betty IS a child in this respect. 

        That note bothers me too. Who on earth goes out to ‘buy a lightbulb’? It seemed like some weird code to me, not that I can begin to explain what that code between Megan/Don might be … they’re in a building [expensive, with a doorman] and I would be surprised if they didn’t have building maintenance people and even if they didn’t, again, why did Don have to go out and buy ‘A’ lightbulb? Couldn’t it wait until Megan did the weekly shop? There were plenty of other lights/lamps in that apartment. Seemed utterly perplexing to me. Sorry, am rabbiting. *GRIN*

        • Sweetbetty

           Don’t feel bad.  I had the same thoughts as you.  When I buy light bulbs it’s in packs of four, and why the urgent need for one right then.  I blame the writers of MM for sensitizing us to hidden meanings in everything that happens on the show, even a child’s drawing.  But the camera did linger on the drawing thus making it seem significant.

          • sarahjane1912

            So it did … which — as you say — is a prefect opportunity for us to over-analyse! :-)

        • judybrowni

          Wow, talk about blowing up an obvious, everyday happenstance into a convoluted theory.

          The obvious and likely, sequence: A bulb blew out in a bedroom lamp, they didn’t have any extras in the apartment.It’s not the job of building maintenence to supply lightbulbs for apartment lamps.Don wrote a note telling wifey where he’s going, Bobby grabbed the piece of paper and drew on the blank side.

          • sarahjane1912

            Ouch. That’s me told. ;-)

            Still wonder about the whale pic though. And buying a lightbulb. Going out for ONE lightbulb when there’s loads of light, as I said, in the apartment already. And btw … I didn’t know their building maintenance staff wouldn’t supply stuff like this [mine does -- not for my free-standing lamps, but for all the halogen spots and stairwell/outdoor lighting and I don't mean the outside of my residence but inside my actual home ;-) ].

            Sorry for over-questioning though. :-)

        • purkoy28

          LOL, We were asking the same thing, who goes out to buy one lightbulb, especially with a maintance personal on hand ( all penthouses do). Totally agree with you.

        • Spicytomato1

          I agree with you, it did seem odd to run out for one lightbulb. A woman would probably put it on her list to buy with other stuff later (or she’d have a box of extras stashed away). But I didn’t read any more into it except that it was sort of a typical guy thing to go right out and get it and not ask if Megan needed anything else while he was out!

          • sarahjane1912

            Guffaw! Yes, now that makes perfect sense when you say it like that. :-) 

            And hey, if Don ‘is’ a typical guy, he probably went out for a lightbulb and came back with a beach umbrella. Or a car. Didn’t Don buy a Caddy on impulse way back when?

            • Spicytomato1

              I don’t remember the Caddy because I am a relatively new viewer. But that reminds me of my friend whose husband got a nice bonus at work and came home that night in a brand new Range Rover. He was all excited and she was horrified. She still hates the thing 5+ years later!

            • sarahjane1912

              Dang, honey, you’ll have to nab yourself a DVD set of the earlier series [they support more than a few re-viewings, promise!].

              Re the un-approved Range Rover purchase: if my other half bought a whole car without discussing it with me first, regardless of the size of the bonus …. then I’d see fit to loathe it too. ;-)

            • Sweetbetty

               When he went out to pick up Sally’s birthday cake he came back with a dog.

            • sarahjane1912

              Of course! I’d forgotten that! Thanks. :-)

    • http://twitter.com/Neomeris Meredith M

      I think Betty’s treatment has a whiff of the Quinn Fabray in it. She’s getting moved around the board, made to do things that need more explanation. I noticed Jane seems to have picked up on something between Roger and “Joanie.” “She’s a professional something” is going into my list of one-liners to use.

    • dciminello

      What about the Dark Shadows soap opera theme? Was it not brilliant? The writing, acting, and directing beautifully achieved the arch – and, yes, obvious – nod to that genre. Perhaps that is why the theme(s) is (are) so hard hit, no?

      • Jessica Gould

        Completely agree! How about the swell of the orchestra at the end of the episode?

    • bluefish

      “When two men really really hate each other … ”  Have to love Roger.  (Some of the cast were on The Actors’ Studio last night — It was so sad to hear Jon Hamm talk about his childhood and its effect on him.)

      I don’t really mind the on the nose stuff too much.  It’s a good antidote to all the moments that are so witheringly oblique and super sophisticated.

      Seeing Betty grow would be a welcome development.  She’s a prop much of the time.  I was struck by how rude Megan was to her in the apartment.  And, yes indeed, Betty’s divulging of the Anna business to Sally definitely felt like a threat.  Creepy.

      • Sweetbetty

         “Some of the cast were on The Actors’ Studio last night — It was so sad
        to hear Jon Hamm talk about his childhood and its effect on him.”         I know, right?  It made me wonder if Jon Hamm is perhaps as damaged as Don Draper/Dick Whitman.  And apropos of nothing, I was shocked to find out that Jared Harris’ father was Richard Harris and his stepfather was Rex Harrison.  Neither one seemed to be a particularly positive influence in his life, though.

      • formerlyAnon

        I would also like to see Betty grow, and get to a healthier [emotional] state. But people generally do that in small changes and baby steps that aren’t nearly as dramatic & television-worthy as bitchy emotional lashing out.

        Case in point: I think Joan is going to be revealed to have grown into more of a mensch, to have become more grounded and let go of the romanticized vision of being the wifely half of a traditional marriage, as she raises the baby & continues to shepherd the younger staff & workflow of SCDP.  But it’s going to be a “reveal,” we’re not going to see much of the day-to-day grind & decision-making that goes into it.   

    • purkoy28

      I feel for Betty, Megan was so rude in the apartment. All Betty was doing was looking around the open floor plan, she wasnt going through drawers. It is Bettys kids living there and Megan should have given Betty a tour instead of taking Bettys politeness and using it to be a bitch.

      • sweetlilvoice

        No way I would take my husband’s ex-wife around my apartment….

        • Sweetbetty

           Not even to rub her nose in how fabulous it is? ;->

          • sweetlilvoice

            Well….put like that…it would be possible! To be on the safe side, let’s all visit the apartment set so we can see it through Betty and Megan’s eyes! 

        • purkoy28

          I wouldnt if we had no kids, but as a mother, she should see where they are every second weekend. Do you guys think if Don was there he would have tossed Betty off the balcony if he caught her looking around,lol.

    • purkoy28

      How hurtful of Don was it to wright the love note to Megan on the back of a picture that he knew Bobby would take home and Betty might see. He is as usual selfish and only considers his little bubble of perfection he tries to live in. havent seen anyone comment on what a shitty move that was on Dons part.

      • nosniveling

        oh come ON- the kid could have easily picked up a piece of paper lying around that already had a note on it do do his drawing.
        Seems like unnecessary vilifying of DD.

        • Sweetbetty

           I think that’s what was agreed upon when this was discussed earlier.  BTW, did anyone else think that paper was the noisiest, crackliest paper they’d ever heard handed?

        • Spicytomato1

          And while we’re nitpicking, who writes a note on a big, blank sheet of paper? Most people use scraps they find laying around. I think we’re getting in the weeds here…

      • judybrowni

        More than likely, Don wrote the note, not intending it for Betty’s gaze. No way he wants to deliberately piss Betty off any more.

        But Bobby inadvertently used the other side for his drawing.

      • sarahjane1912

        Oh I think that’s a LITTLE bit of a stretch to assume that Don deliberately wrote the love note on the back of Bobby’s picture [in the hopes Betty might see]. For all we know — and as others have intimated elsewhere in the Comments section [sorry, can't remember where!] — the note could well have been written BEFORE Bobby drew the picture and THEN became ‘scrap paper’ for the kids to use later. After all, it was hardly a special note [one that Megan might keep for a romantic reason!] just a ‘going to the shops’ note written with love’n’affection. And if that’s the case, Don didn’t have any part in it at all.

        • purkoy28

          true, true. I didnt think he wrote it deliberatly to hurt her, i just think its typical don draper fashion to be so blind or  careless as to leave his loving note there : )

          • Sweetbetty

             Don left the note for Megan; he had to leave it somewhere where she’d see it.  It could have been days or weeks before.  Megan read it and left it wherever Bobby laid his hands on it.  Or maybe she’s like me (I’d have been upset with Don for using a whole sheet of paper to write a tiny little note) and recycles scrap paper (I know, not the thing back then).  She knows the kids like to draw when they’re there so maybe she has a stash of scrap paper used on one side.  I don’t understand how anyone can think that it was intended for Betty to ever see that note.  Some things just *happen*.

        • sweetlilvoice

          Agreed. My husband keeps paper forever and reuses it. Paper from stores no longer in business, now defunct campus departments, etc. Don, a child of the depression, probably did just the same.

    • sweetlilvoice

      I second #1…Bobby only gets to talk at Thanksgiving.

      • Sweetbetty

         He got to tell Megan and her parents that Sally didn’t like fish.

        • purkoy28

          And Henry said to Betty that hes sick of eating  fish every night, I wonder if the kids are made to eat the fish too. If they are then I feel bad for Sally, nothings worse for a kid then being forced to eat gross food every night.

          • Sweetbetty

             Oh, wow, I never even made that connection.  I know that one downfall for women with a family when it comes to “dieting” is preparing a different meal for herself so there used to be all kinds of magazine articles about meals the whole family could eat and enjoy, including the “dieter”.  If Henry was eating fish five nights a week I’ll bet the kids were too

    • GTrain

      I have nothing to add to the discourse here just “Great post, as usual” to TLo. There seems to be a new influx of haters on this blog of late, so I wanted to chime in on the positive side.

    • purkoy28

      Here are some observations……………………………..( Please add what small or big things you noticed to the list : )

      * Betty is still wearing the watch Don gave her in season 1 or 2.
      * The list of food on the Weight Watchers board is so different then what the WW danger foods are today,( and it changed to      Thanksgiving foods at the 2nd meeting).
      * Megans red head friend is the same trendy girl form the zou bisou party.
      *Megans boobs looked great in the mustard sweater she wore while Sally confronted her.
      *Sally is a perfect mix of Dons hurtful, condesending comments and threats and Bettys coldness ( shes over heard to many fights).
      * Does anyone besides Bobby and Sally ever look after Gene?
      *Don talks about Betty around Sally in a disrespectful was and Betty uses her in her traps, both think they are innocent in using their kids against eachother.

    • purkoy28

      Is it me or is Betty dressing alot more matronly and too old for her age.

      • sarahjane1912

        I think women of Betty’s age [what is she, 30+ by now?] dressed more maturely earlier [ie earlier than we do these days]. After all, in the 1960s, particularly in light of the big boom in young marriages post-WWII, women had settled into their lifestyles as wives and mothers and in only a few more years, they would be ‘middle-aged’. 

        • Spicytomato1

          Yes and the extra weight adds to her feeling not as pretty or fashionable at the moment.

        • Sweetbetty

           Plus, back then there wasn’t the youth worship of today.  People were more accepting of their age and the position in life that age put them into.  Young married mothers didn’t dress like teenagers.  Once they hit thirty they fell into the young, sophisticated matron mode.  Age 40 and above was middle-age and old-lady clothes.  There were definite distinctions in the way women dressed at certain ages of their lives.  When I was a kid in the 50s it seemed that every woman with grey hair wore those black lace-up oxfords with a sturdy inch-or-two heel.  Now I never see even the most ancient of women wearing them.  I’m over 50 (about 12 years over) and except for the size, my 23 y.o. granddaughter’s and my wardrobe are fairly interchangeable.

          • Logo Girl

            I’m a bit younger (Gene up there would be my stand-in for the historical moment), but I do remember how much *older* “old” seemed as a child. Realizing that one is the age of those very matronly matrons from one’s childhood is difficult to reconcile. I do wonder how any given ten-year-old perceives “age” today. 

            • greenwich_matron

              Remember Edith Bunker in All in the Family? At the beginning of the series, she was probably 45 or so (Gloria was college age). There is no way that she and Gloria had any clothes in common. Compare that to Courtney Cox in Cougar Town. 

            • Logo Girl

              Yes! That is such a good example. 

          • judybrowni

            Nope, now we older ladies wear running shoes for comfort.

            It’s the girls who sport the 4 and 5 inch heels: you never see a woman over 40 in ‘em.

            • sarahjane1912

              Over 40 and true, skyscraper heels are as rare as the Tasmanian Tiger. ;-)

              That said, if I do indulge … the rule is: cab — restaurant — cab — home. With as little standing or walking in between. And flatties rule for any social occasion which DOES require reasonably elegant footwear.

            • Sweetbetty

               LOL.  Many years ago I remember reading an interview with some female celebrity and she was quoted as saying the sky-high heels she was wearing were “eating shoes”.  I scratched my head until I read on and saw that she said she only wore them to restaurants, where she’d be sitting the whole time.

              I wonder how the over-40 gals who walk the red carpet with smiles on their face and 4″ heels on their feet do it.  I mean, the feet age and I don’t think there’s much that can be done about it.

            • sarahjane1912

              ‘Eating shoes’. I might steal that. ;-)

            • Logo Girl

              *raises hand, meekly…*

    • AZU403

      I remember the Quebec revolutionaries. The NY Times had stories and photos on the front page.

    • thunderstorm1

      Did anyone see the actress who plays Sally Draper do her stint on Dont trust the B in apt 23? She is so funny and a great actress.

    • thunderstorm1

      I really felt for Betty at the Thanksgiving dinner, not just because Sallys little comment but because her expression when she took her bite for dinner, full of sadness in her challenge of dieting and always starving and happiness at the taste. I know how she feels, and back then a women in her class wouldnt exercise, only diet.lnfact I think mostly athletes would only exercise as it wasnt the norm for the average woman in the 60′s/

    • thunderstorm1

      Just curious, but does anyone know if tom and lorenzo are Canadian or American (basically if Canadian either a torontoite or vancouverite and if American then a newyorker or losangelas lol)

    • thunderstorm1

      Also, when Betty through it out she totally missed the garbage can.

    • thunderstorm1

      Hey, if I could I would visit,lol. and take some souveneirs with me ; ) I want to see what the rest of the rooms look like. 

    • thunderstorm1

      I would love to see an episode with Megans friends and Don all hanging out, It would be interesting to see the dynamics in that situation : )

      • sarahjane1912

        Snort! Me too … though given the dynamics at Don’s 40th, it would probably be slightly less than comfortable. ;-)

        But ohhh … a few eps ago when Megan was halter-topped and spurring Don into action for their jaunt to Fire Island … what WOULDN’T I have given to have that as part of the episode?! A slice of history I would have loved to see, particularly if they’d hit the Groves/Pines. 

        • greenwich_matron

          He probably spent the day sleeping on a hammock made of money…

    • thunderstorm1

      Its all in fun for everyone I think. Its fun to discuss different views with fans ( especially when your partner isnt that interested in the show, lol) Negative or Positive I love all the comments and observations and opinions. Don really takes a normal girl and spins her until she is either perfect (to him) or falling to pieces. I also think Genes played by a doll cause I never see the kid talk or move,lol, Im just teasing (sorta)  ; )

    • jessicasac

      It’s too boring to be so late in the season.

    • thunderstorm1

      I love all opinions negative and positive, I think people get into it cause we are die hard fans. Be proud you guys invoke such felling from strangers and give them a medium to discuss something that we all love and have opinions on. If any of u are like me your partner doesnt get into Madmen so its great to talk to other fans and read a range of ideas and comments. 
      P.S. Does anyone else think Genes played by a doll cause he never talks or moves,lol. Im kidding , sort of ; )

    • thunderstorm1

      Geoffry is so good at acting that you  actually are cheering on his death,lol. Sunday tv is the best tv. TLo should blog about GIRLS, thats a fun and clever show.

    • thunderstorm1

      true,critisism sparks conversation        

    • thunderstorm1

      wait till the honeymoon is over right

    • thunderstorm1

      jkk

    • Logo Girl

      Betty burning her toast (why? to make it feel less pleasurable? to knock off an extra five calories?) was just so dreadfully sad.

      • sarahjane1912

        I see Betty’s burnt toast symbolising her own personal hair shirt/self-flagellation technique. Not that she’s turning her quite frankly unappetising diet into a religious experience [!] but there’s a difference between burning the toast and forcing oneself to eat it, and cooking it to perfection and possibly enjoying it to some extent. I don’t think she WANTS to enjoy it; she’s certainly not enjoying Being Betty right now. Pit that against the rush to the ‘fridge to slam down canned cream [and spitting it up] and it’s pretty obvious she’s got major food ‘issues’ right now.

        What struck me about every scene featuring Betty eating [apart from the cream-scene] was her constant chewing of her food, counting her mouthfuls as per WW rules as she either struggles to get her burnt toast down, or savours the one truly mouthwatering bite of her Thanksgiving luncheon. 

        Poor Betty. Despite her toxicity, she really is suffering on this path to slenderville. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129137319 Paula Pertile

          I honestly thought that was dark rye. I didn’t get ‘burnt toast’ at all. But you’re probably right – would Betty eat dark rye? Doubt it.

    • jessicasac

      This episode was awful. Worst of the whole series. January is as terrible an actress as ever. If she could put a little more into Betty, I can see the potential in the stories written for her. Don in the elevator with Ginz was classic. They’re getting to the point where some major tension should be building, I can’t see anything coming from this.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/GOK4MYGMEQHLZM4Y7LYKD46H44 Dee

      I’ve been through a number of the comments, but didn’t see this observation.  Did anyone notice that Don was in his barefeet, when looking out at the smog?  Another example of the Megan influence?

    • greenwich_matron

      I was very young, but 1966 we moved from Montreal to Chicago. Between the riots and the Speck murders (my mom was a nurse, which made them even scarier) in Chicago and the FLQ in Quebec, my mom’s family thought they were choosing from an apocalypse menu. 

      I wonder how Megan feels about the movement. She is a francophone, but she wants to be an English speaking actress. She doesn’t seem like the type to romanticize revolutionaries.

      • Aurumgirl

        Well, I think I understand Megan’s motives there–Quebec was building up to become what it is now, so the film and entertainment industry that thrives there now (and would give Jessica Pare opportunity to star in films and plays with good directors) simply would not have started to grow yet.  Megan’s character is educated and upper middle class, and she was probably raised to aspire to success in any field she could wish to be in–so, of course, the logical choice would be to move to New York to be successful in the arts.   New York would have been the cultural centre so anyone wishing to be serious in that type of career would want to be there.  It may be that Megan is simply not very political, and far more focused on being an artist. 

    • ZBZ2012

      although i agree that the show’s writing has been more heavy-handed this season, i disagree with the assertion that betty is simply feeling some generalized unhappiness that is being left unexplained. i’d be bitter as hell too if i suffered silently through all of my husband’s indiscretions and flaws only to witness him being the husband i’ve always wanted- with a pretty, skinnier, young thing. megan is living the life betty wanted, with the husband betty never had. i think i can be both true that her current life is pretty good with her loving francis and her newfound affection for her children and still feel anger and resentment towards don and megan. growth is a hardly a linear process.

    • FloridaLlamaLover

      Quick question– and I don’t have time to wade through 19 pages of comments — didn’t Don steal Ginsburg’s devil idea?  It was in Ginsburg’s folder entitled “Shit I Gotta Do” — and Ginsburg viscerally reacted to it during the creative meeting, but didn’t (how could he?) call Don out on it.