Mad Men: At the Codfish Ball

Posted on April 30, 2012

There was a time when Sally Draper would have been appalled to admit it (and that time is probably still happening), but the divorce of her parents has been a good thing for her. She may not love Henry as much as her father, but the relative stability that comes from living with people who don’t loathe each other has started to rub off on her. Now that both parents have remarried, she has something else she never had before; a set of new grandmothers, offering her new perspectives and experiences and challenging her in ways she’s never been challenged. Because after watching both her step-grandmothers go down last night, Sally came out of it a changed young girl.

Thank you. We’ll be here all week. We were up half the night trying to figure out a “Grandma goes down” joke.

But perhaps we shouldn’t attempt to be witty, because Emile Calvet is here to drop quite the little bitch-bomb on the room: “Someday your little girl will spread her legs and fly away.” And we’re awful; we admit that, but we had to pause the show for a few minutes just to stop laughing. Man, we wish we’d come up with that one. Then again, there is no scenario in which the utterance of that line isn’t outrageously inappropriate, so maybe we should leave the jokes to the socially reckless.

As is the case with recent episodes, characters have a tendency to stand up and conspicuously make a show of announcing each episode’s theme. It’s the one thing about this season (which has been spectacular so far) that makes us cringe. On the other hand, it makes writing next-morning reviews just a bit easier, so we should probably thank Matthew Weiner for that. Because yes, Emile; that’s correct. The stories this time around all centered around parents and daughters and how they will inevitably wind up hurting, confusing, and disappointing each other. Whether that means going against Catholic teaching, not pursuing your dreams, or wearing makeup and go-go boots, sisters were doing it for themselves this time around, but daddies and mommies were right there behind them, roaring their disapproval.

With Peggy’s story, the issue and conflict couldn’t be any clearer. So clear was it that we shifted uncomfortably in our seats when that apartment door opened and Katherine Olson stood on the other side, all sturdy coat, delicate cheesecake and Catholic guilt. Abe has made the bold move of asking Peggy to move in with him (although you can bet he’s going to move in with her). And when we say “bold,” we mean it. Cohabitation by a sexually active unmarried couple – by ANY unmarried couple – was still a huge deal in 1966 and would remain so for another decade and a half, at least. Anyone would have been shocked by this move, which makes Peggy’s need to get her mother’s approval both distressingly naive (because it was never going to come) and a little bit of passive-aggression on her part, because she got exactly what she wanted out of that confrontation: she got her mother to speak her mind to her. Not that Peggy wouldn’t have been happy with her blessing, but as we said, she knew that was never going to come from the woman who predicted rape with a gleeful vindictiveness aimed squarely at the daughter who dared to have her own mind. That dinner wasn’t a “I want your blessing, Ma.” That was a “Say it, Ma. Just say it. You know you want to” if ever there was one. And so Katherine said it, telling her little girl that Abe would someday marry a woman, but it wasn’t going to be her. And in yet another of those moments that shocks us into the realization that we’re getting older, we found ourselves unconsciously nodding our heads and thinking, “She’s right.” But maybe she’s not right! She’s probably not! It’s just that when it came down to it, Katherine’s objections weren’t as catechism-based as one might have assumed and that her disapproval over Peggy’s living arrangements comes from the experience of a life lived. “You think you’re the first ones to do this sort of thing?”

Thankfully, not every lady used her experience to predict gloom. In fact, many of the ladies were highly supportive of each other this episode and that support was born entirely out of their own histories. Joan has come out the other side of the marriage experience and even though you could tell she didn’t want to deal with another female co-worker coming to her with romantic problems (one imagines the list of ladies who have done so is epic in length), she put on a brave face and gave Peggy exactly the advice she needed, zeroing in on what was going to happen with efficient accuracy. There was no way she could have predicted Abe’s proposal was going to be more modern in tone than anyone realized, but once she processed the news, Joan was truly and deeply happy for Peggy. Even better, she knew how much Peggy wanted her to be happy for her and gave it to her in spades. Peggy herself was still not entirely sure how she felt about the arrangement until Joan set her straight. “I think it’s romantic.” And of course she would, even with a background as traditional in its own way as Katherine Olson’s. With her string of romantic disappointments behind her, Joan was able to take what she’s learned and apply her own form of blessing on Peggy in light of it all. In other words, 3 years ago Joan would have said something snide and condescending to Peggy about it but after everything she’s been through with Roger and Greg, what Peggy has sounds like a wonderful thing; a man who isn’t running away from her.

Although credit where it’s due: “Or maybe you could go shopping!” was a deliciously back-handed slap in the old-school Joan manner, essentially saying “Nothing in your closet is pretty enough for this occasion; I’ve seen it all.”

And Peggy herself turned around in the middle of her personal upheaval to ensure that Megan was enjoying her moment of success and gave her the wise advice to cherish these moments, because as she knows all too well this year, they don’t stay forever. This was both a surprising twist and a gratifying character moment. There was some subtle shading that Peggy is a bit put out by Megan’s role in the office (as well she could have been), but it seems that Peggy is adopting the tenets of second-wave feminism without even being told them and instinctively understands that when a sister accomplishes something, it raises them all up. She was truly happy for her and there didn’t appear to be one iota of professional jealousy behind her words. Between that and the conversation with Joan, it was hard not to be a little proud of all three ladies.

But Megan isn’t happy; not with Peggy’s advice nor with the office’s (admirably un-sexist) praise for her. Advertising doesn’t really get her as excited as it does Don or Peggy. It’s not in her blood the way it’s in theirs and her father is right there to make sure he knows that about her. This realization comes at the most ironic of moments; when she reveals to Don, the world, and herself that she actually has quite the knack for it. “Beginner’s luck,” she kept demurring, every time someone noted what an incredible thing she managed to do, but Megan couldn’t really hear it.

Still, there can be no doubt of her talent. One of the great things about sticking with this show for so long is that you know the characters really well. And after a ridiculous number of repeated viewings of every episode, we can say with some conviction that was a classic Draper pitch, perfectly presented to appeal both to a client’s sentimental center while pushing their businessman buttons at the same time. But perhaps the term “Draper pitch” needs to be more expansive, because that was something we’d never seen before on this show – a Draper tag-team pitch. Don took the ball and ran with it in only the way Don can, but Megan sat down quietly next to him, slipped him the ball under the table and mentally urged him to “Go get ‘em, tiger.”

It’s interesting to note two things here: that Megan is quite eager to downplay her own role in saving the Heinz account (possibly due to the realization that she doesn’t love her job) and that lies flow from Draper lips like honey. Sally quite efficiently (and in pure Draper fashion) changed the details of her story slightly so that Gene’s toys became the culprit in Pauline’s fall rather than the phone cord that really caused it (along with her own lack of consideration). In Don and Megan’s version of the story to Heinz, spaghetti becomes beans, a tense, angry family dinner becomes idyllic, and a smart young woman with a good idea is reduced to a prop. “Don kept staring at me so much I though I’d done something wrong!” And no one even bats an eye. We suspect that this is what’s really bothering Megan so much. Not necessarily that she didn’t get the glory in the moment but that everything about that pitch was dishonest, right down to the wide-eyed reaction to the Heinz exec’s idea to cast the same actors. It’s an extraordinarily cynical business and Megan might be coming to the realization that such easy lying and casual bullshit aren’t good for her. Certainly her father made that clear to her. We wonder just what it is he thinks she’s supposed to be doing with her life. The implication is that she’s always wanted to be a performer of some sort, considering the frequent “actress” comments, as well as “Zou Bisou.”

But she knows what she doesn’t want and that’s to become her parents, which is what that Heinz idea was all about at its heart: children turning into their parents; becoming so indistinguishable from them that you could cast the same actor to play them. It’s a bit surprising to find that sunny, optimistic, bubbly Megan sprang from the loins of two lead actors in a dour, mid-sixties French divorce drama, but this might be the answer to the question of her depths. We all know that something’s going on underneath those ready smiles and bright yellow dresses. In a lot of ways, Megan is like Sally; the child of two people who probably shouldn’t have been together and whose misery sometimes threatens to engulf her. But Sally’s not really comfortable in this world of tuxedos and shiny gowns yet, when a simple trip to the ladies room can turn into an education she really didn’t want to receive. It was fun to go shopping with her new glamorously French relatives, wear the the very latest in fashions, and be Roger Sterling’s date, but at the end of the day, when asked her view of life in the city, she gave an answer that would have had Katherine Olson snorting in weary agreement: “It’s dirty.”

 

[Photo Credit: Ron Jaffe, Michael Yarish/AMC]

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  • PastryGoddess

    I have no idea why, but this was my favorite episode so far this season,It just all clicked

    And I can’t wait for the Mad Style post!

    • Spicytomato1

      I definitely found it to have the most humor and less darkness than episodes of late. That was refreshing to me. I’m also looking forward to the next installment of Mad Style…the fashions all played big parts, too.

      • Glammie

        Wow.  I liked the episode, but I actually found it quite dark–the nasty little battle between Megan’s parents was pretty awful.  And poor little Sally Draper being “betrayed” by her date the way she’s always been betrayed by the self-centeredness of the grown-ups around her.

        The episode did explain a lot about Megan though–her sense of style, her early empathy for Sally–and why she’s both naive, but better able to handle Don than Betty was.

        As well as parents and daughters, the increasing cynicism of advertising, I also thought we were looking at an episode about the generation gap.  Sally worries me.

        • Spicytomato1

          I’m with you…I did say “less darkness” not “no darkness,” lol, because there were indeed some worrisome moments. I wasn’t left trembling with a feeling of existential dread I like I often am, which is what was refreshing to me.

          • Glammie

            Well, true Don wasn’t chasing Megan down, but there was a bleakness to this one for me–the sabotaging, undermining in-laws.  Also, to a lesser extent, the storyline with Peggy.  She’s geared up for a proposal and he suggests living in sin.  And there was poor Peggy saying yes not because she wants to as much as she doesn’t want to be alone.  

            Still, Roger was having a good time and I do kind of hope he’ll net a client despite Don now being distrusted by everyone.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYQ2DMG6JBSNLMENXQ7TVJBFQ4 Lee

          The episode did explain a lot about Megan though–her sense of style, her early empathy for Sally–and why she’s both naive, but better able to handle Don than Betty was.

          Yeah, she’s just the knees bees, ain’t she?  Ho hum.

          • Glammie

            No.  I think it’s more that she’s a people pleaser. One of the ways a child tries to deal with unstable, obnoxious parents is to be “perfect”.  Megan tries to please other people, but it’s unclear that she knows what she wants.  In some ways, she’s more like Betty than it first appears.  Less petulant, but also feeling she has to be what others want her to be instead of what she wants to be.  

          • P M

             Ah, but I think Megan has more spirit than Betty had. She actually confronts Don. Although, that may be because her parents are open about their fights. As well, Megan’s mom is a strong-willed woman, in my estimation. She may like Don, but I’d watch out if Don EVER tried to hurt her little girl.

          • Glammie

            Except that Marie also acts as her daughter’s rival–hitting on Don.  

            And, yes, Megan seems to have a bit more spirit (it’s also the changing times).  I keep wondering if she’ll walk out on Don.  At the very least, I expect her to walk out of Sterling, Cooper.

          • P M

            Yes….. when will she spread her legs and fly, I wonder ;D :D :D

      • Megan Patterson

        Anyone else notice that Peggy’s engagement dress was pure Joan? 

        • P M

           Yeah….. but with a typical Peggy sense of imperfection, bless her :).

    • kj8008

       I agree – my favorite so far as well. Good to see some of that sparkle and shine from the season 2 and 3 back.

    • StillGary

      RIGHT! Even though empathecally (not sure if that’s a word), I was a little horrified  – had I been in Sally’s situation — I would have been freaked out! One minute, being treated as grown up and the next moment realizing the grownups have run off to cheat. In a way, Roger had cheated on Sally, just like step grand-mama Marie had cheated on Emil — because Roger had made such a big deal declaring Sally as his partner & co-conspirator for the evening. And OMG, if she wasn’t doing Betty proud! Don’t even get me started on how gross the idea of oral sex would strike a 12-13 year old! Loved the exchange with Pete and Emil, too. 

      • Sweetbetty

         I was thinking, too, of Sally’s reaction to the BJ scene.  When I was that age I’m not even sure I knew what the sex act was and I remember being shocked that Sally explored her body while watching Illya Kuryakin on TV a few seasons back because I know I never had those urges at that age.  Seeing Megan naked in the bed she shared with Don, the continued friendship with creepy Glen, and now this shocking scene; the writers are most certainly laying the groundwork for some unsettling activity involving Sally.  BTY, Don told her to remove the makeup but she had fabulously lush lashes at the party.  Natural?  Mascara?  False?  

    • Kim O’Neill

      I agree—right up there with “The Suitcase” as far as I’m concerned. 

  • artgirl9

     Great write up of my favorite episode so far. Loved the scene at the end around the table- a little nod to the French New Wave.

    • JANA WELLS

      and, Julia Ormond!

      • TropiCarla

        Wow, Jana. I totally didn’t recognize Julia. And I’ve had a crush on her ever since “First Knight.”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

    Excellent write-up. Poor Sally has gone from “I know the man pees inside the woman” to seeing her new step-grandmother giving Roger a blow job. That girl will need a lot of therapy.

    Maybe I was spacing out by that part, but I wasn’t clear on the conversation between Don and Cynthia’s dad (the great Ray Wise).  Why did he say the folks on the cancer board would never want to work with Don?

    • Sobaika Mirza

      Don essentially sold out his client for the world to see. Doesn’t make him trustworthy, does it?

    • MissAnnieRN

      I’m assuming that it was a reference to the full page ad regarding the SCDP break-up with Lucky Strike.  

    • jackie cohen

       he was saying that they would never trust him after he turned on Lucky Strike.

    • VanessaDK

       That was a great moment.  Chilling and unexpected.  Just as Don is riding high again and considered brilliant for his strategic take-down of Lucky Strike last year, the true implications of it are made clear to him.  he needs clients like Heinz– from an old family company and not in the know with the pioneers of business society in NY.

      I bet Ken has known this for a while.  Maybe his alliance with Peggy is partly related to his understanding that Don is not the cash-cow he used to be, no matter how brilliant.

    • miagain

       And how ’bout all that smoking at the American Cancer shindig…HA!

      • Frank_821

        omg yes. That haze!

      • fursa_saida

        In college, I knew the son of a guy who was…let’s say high up in the ACS. Kid smoked like a chimney on fire.

    • rowsella

       Don bit the hand that fed him.

    • frances rossi

      You never bite the hand that feeds you

  • MissAnnieRN

    I am positive that Kiernan Shipka should get nominated for an Emmy after last night’s ep.  Also, Roger Sterling stole the show last night!  Hilarious!

    • Andrea Rossillon

       I know, right? I loved Don’s line about how other people already know the things that Roger learned last week because of his acid trip. It’s hilarious that drug experience brought Roger’s maturity up to the level of a 26-year-old.

      • P M

         Re: Roger’s maturity: One step at a time, I suppose :D.

    • EveEve

      She did a great job.  Because of the title of the Episode “At the Codfish Ball” I was on the lookout for fish and/or Shirley Temple references.  Lo and behold, Sally, who has an aversion to fish, did manage to poke around a whole plated fish (head and all – which, excuse me, but would never be served at an event like that in the 1960s) and  eat a tiny piece and actually seem to like it.  She’s becoming more adult by the week.  And then there’s the Shirley Temple / Buddy Ebsen duo of Sally and Roger “on a date” with Roger bringing Sally a Shirley Temple to drink!

      • MissAnnieRN

        Very nice on the Shirley Temple bit!  I loved Roger’s line (paraphrasing)- “It’s time for you to taper down.  I brought you a Shirley Temple”

        TLo – Roger Sterling had so many good one liners, if he keeps it up I can see recaps including quips like you used to do with Glee.

        • Geoff Dankert

          THIS. (Or: RogerCaps!) Roger really seemed to enjoy himself as Sally’s +1 … it felt like how he might have treated his own daughter when she was Sally’s age. By the way, how amazing did Mona Sterling look this episode? Divorce has treated her well. In addition, Kiernan brilliantly channeled Betty Hofstadt Draper Francis in her petulance over being ordered to remove her makeup and boots, no? 

          • ciotogist

            Roger was enjoying himself, but he was using Sally to flirt with Megan’s mother.  Not so nice.

          • ballerinawithagun

            Yes, divorce was good for Mona Sterling!

      • Fordzo

        I thought that she gagged after she tasted the fish.  I thought she was making a, “that’s not so bad” face, but then I thought she gagged a little.  I’ll have to watch again.  

        • http://twitter.com/pointlesswords jaymeglynn

           Yeah, she gagged. But, at least she tried it. Sally and Roger were endlessly entertaining.

    • MK03

      Roger was on fire. And I thought acting as Sally’s “date” was cute and fatherly, something we really don’t get to see him do. 

      • shopgirl716

        The “Go get ‘em tiger” line made me smile.  But now I’m thinking of the possible double entendre and it’s kind of gross.  Ew.

  • Sobaika Mirza

    The heavy-handedness of the themes has struck me too – Mad Men used to leave a lot more open to interpretation. Just a season ago we were all ruminating over the significance of ‘Did you get the pears?” and it is a lot less layered now. Not quite sure if it’s a good or bad thing.

    • http://twitter.com/SIxGablesBags SIxGablesBags

       And that very obviousness leads me to expect things to be clear and then I get stumped.  Like what was the deal with Meagan’s mom calling the kids “animals” and then passing out with a lit cigarette?  That felt sinister somehow, but led no where…

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM yahoo-ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM

         Calling the kids animals was just an endearment.  I think the passing out with a lit cigarette is because she was sad and upset and had too much to drink.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dalca4 Denise Alcantara

        Megan called the kids by the same name when she was taking care of them last season (Tomorrowland). It’s just a little pet name.  I thought it was a nice little connection to make that her mother probably called her that as a child and now Megan is doing it as well.

        • http://twitter.com/SIxGablesBags SIxGablesBags

           Ah, thank you!  I didn’t remember Megan saying that.  It was one of those Mad Men call-backs.

      • Sweetbetty

         Megan opening a door and seeing a woman’s hand dangling with a lit cigarette was part of last week’s preview, which ran again before this ep started, giving the scene much more weight in the plot than it ended up having.  Unless, of course, Marie ends up starting a fire the same way and someone ends up dying in a future episode.

        • Glammie

          I read it as a parallel being made between Don and Megan’s parents.  They’re messed up in similar ways and there’s poor Megan, the parentified child, trying to redo and fix her parents’ marriage in her own.  Her own father’s a womanizer who undermines her.  So Don’s the new-and-improved version–enough so that her mother’s making moves on him and her father hates him.

          Megan’s been taking care of glamorous fucked-up adults most of her life.  It does make for an interesting dynamic–kudos to Weiner and co. for fleshing Megan out.

          • Flooby

            Very interesting theory- I do think there’s one arena where Don is a DEFINITE improvement.  Remember that hissy fit Emile threw and then stomped out of the living room?  
            On the one hand it reminded me of Don stomping out (and driving away) last week, on the other it just seemed sooo weak and petty because it was about Emile’s standing in front of this daughter, and his own ego, and I can’t imagine Don ever acting like that about saving face in front of his kids.  
            Bascially I think Don is a better Dad.  I feel like his love of Sally is one of the most genuine things in his life and he’d never take the wind out of her sails or undermine her achievements or her future  husband’s achievements just because he was having a bad week/ liked to play mind games.  
            I wonder now if what people called Megan’s “Maria Van Trapp” phase wasn’t Megan falling in love with Don-the-genuinely-caring-father.  

          • sekushinonyanko

             I’d take pouty hissy fits over chasing me around in rages, abandoning me hundreds of miles from home and kicking in doors any day. Hissy fits are annoying, but at least they’re not dangerous, as compared to full on rages.

          • Glammie

            Well, we don’t know all that Emile’s done.  He’s nasty, makes inappropriate remarks to kids, screws around pretty openly and has a wife who does the same.  I’d say he’s completely capable of  abandoning his wife hundreds of miles from home.  

            On the other hand, Don’s also capable of very nasty behavior on the infidelity front.

          • http://twitter.com/TMamBo Therese Bohn

            I was a little concerned about Emile around Sally — He’s definitely messed up, and since Megan was his ‘favorite’, I’d hate to think that this guy might be dangerous around children, esp. girls.   Poor Sally! I felt so bad for her after she walked in on Roger and Marie (EWW!)  She’ll be needing more therapy. Although I was surprised that Roger and Marie picked such a easily accessable place for their liason –the door was unlocked for heaven’s sake!

          • Glammie

            I think Marie was throwing her infidelity in Emile’s face because he threw his in hers.  Well, I suppose that’s one thing about Don–at least he tried to be discreet.  Betty never could quite catch him in the act.  

            Anyway, I think Marie wanted to take the risk and Roger, who was meeting with various rejections, wasn’t about to turn down a no-strings blowjob.

          • Sweetbetty

             It did seem like she was almost hoping she’d be caught in the act, what with the unlocked door, their location in the room, and her position in full view rather than being obscured by the sofa.  But I’m willing to bet one of her fabulous dresses that Sally wasn’t the person she was expecting to walk in on them.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWI4TVRTYNFPSLHPTKQQP66YUI Michelle

           i get the feeling Megan’s mother is an alcoholic. seeing her passed out on the bed may be a recurring scene from her childhood.

  • nosniveling

    Thank you gentlemen for your perceptive recap- it’s become part of following the show for me.  I was puzzled by Don’s reaction to the comment, “they love your work, it’s you they don’t like”.
    He seemed quite put out by that which was surprising since it seems like something he would normally shrug off.
    Any input on that?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/M476USE6GD6VEE4RO6JA22VRLI Kriesa

      I think until that moment, he thought that his letter really would help SCDP get business. Don had been shrugging it off when Roger kept telling him that it wouldn’t; when he heard it from a second, fairly neutral source, it finally sunk in.

    • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

      I think Don has gotten away with a lot based on raw talent and being liked/admired. Men want to be him, women want to be with him. But the times, they are a changing, and he’s still catching up to that fact. Roger, on the other hand, is definitely showing that he’s not just a rich boy who inherited a company. He’s canny and, at times, wise, more so than Don.

      • http://twitter.com/fashunroadkill Chelle

        I think up until this season (this episode actually) Roger was just a rich boy who inherited a company. Remember, Lucky Strikes was something his dad landed.

        However, I think Roger has a new lease on life and is tired of looking foolish. So now he’s hustling.

      • sagecreek

        Yes. Don counts on being liked, he assumes that he is — to be confronted with the fact that an entire group of people dislike him was a shocker.

        • Sweetpea176

          This is the kind of thing that I think would shake most people pretty badly — not just the dislike, but also to be the only person in the room who has misread a situation would be both humiliating, and would cause someone to really doubt themselves.  And Don’s work — and his invention of himself — relies on being able to read situations and people, and to predict how people will respond to a message.  I’m not in advertising, but it seems to me that that’s what that business is, basically.

      • shopgirl716

        I think Roger also grew up in and out of that world.  He understands it in a visceral way that Don never will.

  • Annie Leung

    Thank you so much for another brilliant recap! Everything in this episode just clicked and I’m still in awe that every episode so far has had an “OH MY GOD” moment. I’m starting miss Betty Francis though.

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      Me too.
      And whenever I see Christopher Stanley’s name in the credits I get excited that Betty and Henry will be on– but now I guess he’s just a regular cast member with billing regardless. Come back next week, please!

  • the_archandroid

    And in yet another of those moments that shocks us into the realization that we’re getting older, we found ourselves unconsciously nodding our heads and thinking, “She’s right.” But maybe she’s not right! ”
    Absolutely, this was the thing that kind of broke my heart about that dinner with Momma Olsen, it started out about sin, but then it devolved into talking about the basic loneliness that human beings try to manage, and how she thinks Peggy isn’t managing hers well.  I desperately want it to work out with Abe and Peggy, but I get the feeling her relationship is going to be a series of lowered standards and expectations. 

    Loved how the visual of Megan and the rest of creative walking one way, while Peggy walked another way played out today, but I’m sad for Megan that this isn’t it for her.  The actress who plays her was really amazing last night, her face was so tragic, and I love how they set up the final shot of her at the table, where she looks EXACTLY like her mother in an eerie uncanny way. 

    Finally poor poor Sally.  Someone on Reddit observed that the whole Don portion of the episode could be a quasi-homage to the God-father (music, italian wedding) and running with that idea, Sally’s opening the door on Roger is like Kay’s opening the door on Michael. She is confronted with the HARD truth. (Yes, I am ashamed of myself for going there….)

    Can’t wait for the style post! Peggy’s dresses it’s like she fast forwarded through a life time, catholic school girl, to blushing (not) fiancee to Happy Homemaker. She constructed a whole life via fashion! 

    • Musicologie

      OMG, Peggy’s pink proposal dress was a “Girl, That is NOT Your Dress!” moment if I ever saw one.  You could see her straining to fit the gender role she thought she was supposed to play. I’m actually glad Abe didn’t propose.

      • dress_up_doll

        Yes, I’m glad I’m not the only one who had a “girl that’s not your dress” moment. While it was a lovely color, she looked restrained and like a little girl playing dress-up. I, too, was glad he didn’t propose. All I could think was, my god, how is Peggy going to get out of this one?

      • anasmomma

        I thought her dress was perfect for this scene.  Peggy is the forerunner for the upcoming bra-burning Gloria Steinem era of the 70′s.  Her pretty-pink bowed look is an off-shot of the former 50′s, showing the conflict and angst of a modern woman in not so modern thinking times. The dress displays what a woman who is going to be proposed to ”should” wear.  You hit it on the head with Peggy straining to fit the gender role she “thought” she should play…it is conflicting times for her…what a woman should be, should act like, should be doing…versus what a “person” wants to do, successfully, courageously, and with risk-taking moves, a career other than marriage and children…in many ways, no different then today, in modern times.

        • Maggie_Mae

          Feminists never burned bras.  There was a demonstration prompted by the Miss America pageant, in which feminists dumped bras into the trash.  But none were set aflame! 

          • artsykelly

            LOL, this is always my speech when someone refers to bra burners!!!  Love it.

          • emcat8

            Thank you for mentioning this. I get so tired of that myth, and the one about people spitting on vets returning home from Vietnam…

          • http://twitter.com/TMamBo Therese Bohn

            Thank You, Maggie_Mae, and, this is true, the protesters at the Miss America Contest originally wanted to use girdles, but they hadn’t brought any, so they used bras instead.  The girdle was the truly confining garnment of the 1st half of the century, and by dumping the girdles, they wanted to show both their frustration with what a woman’s image was perceived as at the pagent, as well as casting off the restraints of girdles, and thus, what society expected them to look like.

      • MK03

        I laughed out loud at that dress. Bright pink, with a big, frivolous bow on the front! Pegs, what were you thinking??

      • P M

        Oh, man, if there was EVER a candidate for, ‘…NOT your Dress!’. Hmmm. I wonder if the fact that it’s not truly well-fitted, not really her colour, and not flattering to her physique in shape (I’m talking about the cut of the dress), is Janie Bryant’s way of saying… Yeah, this whole thing isn’t quite the right fit for our Pegs.

    • CPT_Doom

      I totally felt the Godfather reference in the banquet scene at the end – and Sally’s stone-faced but shocked look at the end was amazing.

      • AZU403

        I bet she’ll never eat fish again. Poor girl.

        • lostonpolk

          Or hot dogs.

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          I just knew she would puke into her handbag, all over Roger’s business cards. But alas, no.

          • Sweetbetty

            Snort!   I was waiting for her to finish all the drinks the adults left on the table like she did at the office party several seasons back.  THEN puking into her handbag.

          • P M

             That’ll serve Roger right ;D

    • P M

       Sadly, I concur. Catherine’s speech was not as vicious as her Catholic-guilt ones. This was weary life-experience talking. Wow: I wonder what disappointments Catherine suffered herself, if not by witnessing that of others?

    • Sweetpea176

       ”and how she thinks Peggy isn’t managing hers [loneliness] well”
      Oh, this broke my heart — getting a series of cats would be better for Peggy in her mind.  That  just struck me as really cruel.  I realize Katherine is projecting her own bitterness at being lonely, but, c’mon Ma, get a grip on yourself!

  • TheDivineMissAnn

    Poor Sally.  What an education in marriage she’s been getting lately.  First her Mother and Father and their issues, then her Mom and Stepfather with their issues, then Megan’s ( who she seems to be really warming to ) parents and their obvious dysfunction.  Sadly, the pessimist in me has her witnessing the disintegration of her Dad’s and Stepmother’s marriage at some point in the future. While Don & Megan were quite happy in this episode, with both of them having histories of growing up in a household with unhappy and sham marriages, the odds are against them succeeding in this one.  Though stranger things have happened.

  • VanessaDK

    YAY!!  Couldn’t wait for the review!!

    As for Peggy, I thought that storyline was well played because we have always known that Peggy is a complex character in terms of modern outlook on gender roles, sex, and work, but she comes from a very traditional background.  We never see her thinking over whether marrying Abe would crimp her career path, but I think she may have been relieved as well as disappointed that he didn’t propose marriage.  

    However, I think that putting the cohabitation in her mom’s face was a classic self-flagellation-by-mother move.  I did love that her mom (who has already lived through the unwed mother path with Peggy) is very down to earth about the whole thing.  You could see her girding herself for the possibility that Peggy might announce she was marrying this itinerant jew, and then outraged that her daughter was stupid enough to think living together was a good idea.  AND I loved that she told her Peggy that she should just lie!  I mean, when you are involved in a romantic relationship with womeone who is totally unacceptable to your family on any level, there is no good outcome except splitting up.

    • Musicologie

      I love that Abe made a big deal about liking ham (and Peggy having cooked it) in order to seem less Jewish (and make Peggy seem more traditionally feminine).

      • charlotte

         Exactly. Abe was very sweet- and for instance Joan’s husband would never have acted that way.

    • Sweetbetty

       I was a little troubled about Peggy’s reactions too.  Last week she seemed to put her relationship with Abe a far second to her career, with marriage not even entering her mind.  This week she got all aflutter when Joan brought up the possibility of Abe proposing.  I realize that last week she was taken down a peg at the office but it still seems odd that the prospect of marriage should suddenly be so appealing to her, even to the point of rescheduling a business meeting.

      And after getting all girlie, even to the dress she was wearing, it just didn’t seem right that she reacted to Abe’s “proposal” that they just live together with hardly a twitch of an eyelash.  Like TLo said, back in that day it simply was not done by respectable people.  I kept waiting for the realization that what he was proposing was not marriage to sink in to Peggy.  As she reached her left hand across the table to hold his I felt like she was expecting him to have a ring to slip on her finger.  Even for Abe to suggest it so matter-of-factly seemed strange for the era.  Some landlords would (and could back then) refuse to rent an apartment to such a couple.  I know our Peggy is a forward thinker but in this episode she seemed to take a step or two back in reverting to a blushing young woman expecting a marriage proposal then four steps forward in easily accepting a not-so-traditional proposal.

      • Gail Lucas

        I had a landlord refuse to rent an apartment to my boyfriend and I, and this was only about 10 years ago.  He didn’t come right out and say it, but he went from very happy to rent to us to suddenly finding many, many problems with our application once he learned we weren’t married.

        • KQ67

          I had a landlord refuse to rent to my boyfriend and me about 20 years ago for the same reason, we weren’t married. The landlady we eventually rented from was all “but you are engaged?”, as if it were any of her business.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            Yup, same thing here, around 1990. But if Abe moves in with Peggy (as was his stated plan) it might not be such an issue, since she’s already proven to be a good tenant.

          • TheDivineMissAnn

            Food for thought!  Maybe the planned cohabitation will be canceled b/c the landlord will not allow it.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            Yup, same thing here, around 1990. But if Abe moves in with Peggy (as was his stated plan) it might not be such an issue, since she’s already proven to be a good tenant.

        • lostonpolk

          I’ve known a couple of landlords personally over the years, and they have a legitimate reason for at least concern for a couple’s status: An unmarried couple is, by nature, more unstable than a married one, so their ability to pay the rent is just as shaky, presuming they both share the rent.

          • Sweetbetty

             Back then landlords could do that but nowadays federal

            law prohibits housing discrimination based on your race, color,

            national origin, religion, sex, family status, or disability.  Peggy and Abe could claim discrimination based on family status.  Back in the 70s I was a single mother of three little kids and I can’t tell you how many landlords turned me down because they didn’t rent to single women with kids.  Their rationale was perfectly logical, as you state above, about ability to pay, but they can’t do that today.

          • Logo Girl

            Heck, in the 70s it was hard for families with both parents and a couple of kids to rent, on the assumption that kids would wreck the house, or some such nonsense. This happened with my family :(

          • NoNeinNyet

            North Dakota still had an anti-cohabitation law on the books as recently as 2007. Most landlords didn’t know and/or didn’t care but one did refuse to rent to an unmarried couple and when they tried to take legal action they were shocked to find out that what the landlord did was perfectly legal. I grew up in a pretty rural conservative farming community in Minnesota and I was shocked when this issue was in the news when I moved north in 2002 to start college in Moorhead, across the MN/ND border from college. Even better, cohabitation was considered to be a sex crime on par with rape or incest.

        • http://twitter.com/sara_clarke Sara Clarke

          Really? Where was this, Saudi Arabia?  I “lived in sin” around ten years ago, in Manhattan, and I’d have been SHOCKED if something like that had transpired. 

          Frankly, I’m not all that sure it was as scandalous as some commenters are making it out to be, even in ’66. Village bohemians lived together without being married as far back as the twenties, for sure. Victoria Woodhull, the first woman to run for President (before women could even vote!) had free love as part of her campaign platform. That said, it would have been scandalous to bourgie and working class people. But isn’t that the whole point of the 60′s? That ideas that used to be considered daring and bohemian were suddenly becoming mainstream? 

          • Sweetbetty

             I guess those of us who lived through the 60s and are remembering first-hand how scandalous living together outside of marriage was are just bourgeoisie and working class and never had the opportunity to live in the Village and hob nob with bohemians.

          • filmcricket

            But Peggy’s family is working class people. And her mother’s Catholic – she’s going to live the rest of her life believing her daughter’s going to burn in hell. (Actually, she probably already thinks that, given the baby and Peggy’s general disinterest in the Church.)

            It was definitely a big, BIG deal. My mother got married two weeks before her 20th birthday at the end of the 60s, because she couldn’t wait to be out of the house and nice girls didn’t live with men out of wedlock. My father was ex-communicated because my mother wasn’t a Catholic. And the bohemians you speak of were the “dirty hippies” of their day; they were looked down upon by respectable society.

          • formerlyAnon

            Well, yes, that freedom to “live in sin” or to be more open (though not necessarily totally open) about a number of other beliefs, persuasions, habits and orientations was the whole point of moving to a big city – and to its more bohemian neighborhoods – for many people. [To a lesser degree, it still is.]

            The times they ARE a changing, but they haven’t changed, yet, in 1966.  

          • ybbed

            I lived during that time in California and believe me, it was unheard of to live with your boyfriend. Nobody did it. If if occurred it was a SECRET.

          • http://aimeslee.blogspot.com/ Scrapette Jones

            I think the contradiction here is being caused by not remembering that back then, city/urban life and small town life were much more different than today. I was born in 1956 and raised in a southern small town, and trends, fashions, sometimes took 5 years to filter down to us. Cable tv and then internet played a big part in putting us all on the same page. I’d definitely count living together and cohabitating on a rental agreement as one of those experiences that were different city vs. township.

      • Squirrel270

        Oh, I think she batted more than an eyelash.  She looked really disappointed at Minetta when she realizes she’s not getting a proposal.  She quickly decides she’d rather have the runner-up prize (living together) than risk losing him by saying no.  And she’s secretly afraid her mother is right that Abe is just using her for practice.

        • Spicytomato1

          Yes, and that bittersweet way she said “I do” was perfect, like she knew that was the only time she’d be saying those words to him. The way she recalibrated her expectations in almost an instant was heartbreaking, I thought.

          • gokobuta

            The saddest moment for me was how Peggy kept saying ‘I do’ to Abe’s other questions, like she was trying out the words even though she knew she wouldn’t be saying them after all (heavy-handed, but Elizabeth Moss works it).

            Or how desperately she needed Joan to validate her decision to move in with Abe. Peggy’s rejected Joan’s husband-hunting advice so much in the past, it was a bit jarring to see how keen she was to have Joan’s approval.

            Or when she basically admits to her mother that she no longer wants to be alone. (Did she say alone or lonely?) That quaver in her voice…maybe that’s why her mom goes easy on her (well, by Mama Oleson standards) in the end.

            Poor Peggy.

          • Sweetpea176

            I took Peggy saying “I do” to Abe as her hinting that she wants a proposal.

      • Squirrel270

        Oh, I think she batted more than an eyelash.  She looked really disappointed at Minetta when she realizes she’s not getting a proposal.  She quickly decides she’d rather have the runner-up prize (living together) than risk losing him by saying no.  And she’s secretly afraid her mother is right that Abe is just using her for practice.

      • the_archandroid

        I think the fact that she turns to him after Ginsberg’s revelation shows that she is more attached than we thought.  I think in that episode she even says “I need you” to him. I don’t know if he’s a distant second, but I do see your point.  Though I think Peggy’s big theme throughout this season has been dealing with the ambivalence and uncertainty of career vs. personal life.  The choice doesn’t come as easy to her as it did before. 

      • atticus229

         And in response to his question about if she still wanted to eat and her response was “I Do” I think is a harbinger to us all that that is the only time she will say those words to Abe.   I don’t see a wedding/marriage happening!

      • http://darkesword.com DarkeSword

        I don’t think Peggy has her heart set on marrying Abe. I think she’s just more in love with the idea of getting married. Dating is hard for her, and it seems to me she’s got a take-whatever-you-can-get mentality.

        There’s a bit of bitterness in her about marriage from the end of last season, when she complains to Joan about how her saving the company was not as important as Don getting married again. Part of what was unsaid there was her desire for marriage for herself, I think.

        It carries over here a bit too.

    • FloridaLlamaLover

      VanessaDK wrote:  ”
      AND I loved that she told her Peggy that she should just lie!”

      haha, indeed — as a parent, sometimes it’s just better NOT to know certain things!

      • rowsella

         Her mother tells her that lies are better than shaming your parents.  That was pretty mean.

        • formerlyAnon

           But not meant meanly, no doubt is a completely sincere and truthful response.

          • ciotogist

            It reminds me of what Jeanette Winterson’s mother said to her, “Why be happy when you could be normal?”

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=527150091 Pat Biswanger

      I think Peggy’s reaction was largely driven by her feeling upstaged by Meghan at the office.  Here Meghan marries the Big Cheese, the guy made it clear from the get-go that he wasn’t interested in her, Peggy, and now Meghan trumps Peggy’s Heinz idea with a much better one.  I think that’s what flashed through her mind at Abe’s faux proposal:  Meghan = big-shot husband + great Heinz idea; Peggy = shacking up + rejected Heinz idea.  She’s feeling second class all around.

      And you know what else?  Her mother was right.  Abe probably will live with her for a while, and then marry someone else, some fresh-faced young thing, and Peggy will be that much older.  Happens all the time.

      • Sweetbetty

         ”Abe probably will live with her for a while, and then marry someone
        else, some fresh-faced young thing, and Peggy will be that much older.
         Happens all the time.”

        Yep, look at Roger and Mona.

        • sekushinonyanko

           And look at Roger and Joan. Fooling around really doesn’t have a good track record for scoring rings on this show.

  • http://6things.blogspot.com par3182

    Mama Olson: you’d go through six cats waiting to outlive one of her guilt trips.

  • NurseEllen

    Aside from the mixed-up line about spreading legs/spreading wings, Roger had all the best lines in this episode: “He’s at Dow Corning,”
    Roger says to Sally. “They make beautiful dishes, glassware, napalm ….
    And those two over there — the balding guy with Margaret Dumont? He’s
    with GM.”  And my favorite, “Who knows why people in history do good things? For all
    we know, Jesus was trying to get the loaves & fishes account.”  Slowly, he is taking over the place in my heart previously set aside for Don, although he needs to stop telling everyone about his “life altering experience”.  I guess discretion was never his strong suit.  Never thought I’d say this, but I’m missing Betty.  I presume she was written out of these episodes in part to accommodate her pregnancy & childbirth time, but her absence is being felt.  Julia Ormond as Megan’s mom–what a great bit of casting.  I remember her performance in the title role in the otherwise forgettable remake of “Sabrina”.  (OK, Greg Kinnear did a good job in that, too.)  And the father’s face was nagging at me all episode–I knew I’d seen him before but couldn’t place him–anyone know his name? 

    • greathill

      I didn’t realize that was Julia Ormond!  she doesn’t seem old enough to play Megan’s mother.  but she was beautiful.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1084733830 Kate Andrews

        See, I noticed how young she seemed in contrast to Megan’s dad — basically, the same age gap as between Megan and Don. 

      • grouchywif

         She’s 47. Old enough.

        • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

           But, that would mean she was 21 when she had Megan. And didn’t Megan say she was the youngest?  I thought JO was still a tad young. But I guess she could have married at 17 or 18 and had 2-3 in a row.

          • ClevelandburbsBeth

             I think she said she was the favorite, not the youngest. But I’m not 100% on that…

          • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

            Here she said favorite. At HoJo’s last week she said youngest.

          • Sweetbetty

             Last week when Don didn’t buy baby Gene a gift she mentioned that she was the youngest.

          • Sweetbetty

             That occurred to me too but then I thought that perhaps Emile, being significantly older than Marie, had been married before and had children by a previous marriage (or marriages).

          • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

            That’s a very, very, logical explanation. She has half-siblings. Thank you!

          • Sweetpea176

            We don’t know how old the character is though.  She looked well into her 50′s to me, and I’m in my late 40′s.

          • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

             Hmm. Well, that’s true. We’re assuming the character is Julia Ormond’s real age. Not sure I agree she looked well into her 50′s. I’m in my extremely late 30′s [cough49cough] and didn’t feel she looked older. But then, the extreme formality of the look tends to look “older” to us, i guess.

          • Sweetbetty

             I was just surprised to see Megan’s mother looking as hot as she did.  For some reason, especially while Don was talking to her on the phone in the last ep, I pictured her as a matronly (as in body like Katherine or Pauline) but still attractive and very kind lady.  Instead, she could have passed for Megan’s sister.

          • Sweetpea176

            Or I’m completely delusional about how old I look!  (“Extremely late 30′s” — can I use that?)

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        She was probably his “latest grad student” at some point.

        • http://www.facebook.com/adamcatkinson Adam Atkinson

          Surely Megan has realized some parallel in her own marriage (i.e. Don’s latest secretary).

    • VanessaDK

       Rogers lines were fabulous–one after another–but I really liked his serious discussion of the benefits of LSD with his ex-wife.  I really think that the idea of having Roger be the first to drop acid was a great story writing twist.  It also sets up the early infatuation with LSD by the moneyed intellectuals with the later problems with LSD and bad trips as it became more widespread.

      • tallgirl1204

        And perhaps they’re setting up a future bad trip by Don? 

    • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

       He’s Ronald Guttman. He was in The Hunt for Red October and other good movies, and was a recurring character on All My Children in the ’90s.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Liz-Norris/26609454 Liz Norris

         He was also in the recent HBO version of Mildred Pierce. Apparently, he’s your go-to guy when your character is a white European of any nationality.

    • MissAnnieRN

      Another inspired casting choice was LEELAND from Twin Peaks!  YES!

    • Sweetbetty

       From what was said during the discussion of the ep with Fat Betty, January Jones had already given birth by the time these shows were being filmed.

      I snickered at Roger’s quips but knew they were mostly wasted on Sally, whose head they went right over.

      • royinhell

        Couldn’t post the link, but search ‘Fat Betty Mad Men’ on youtube for a hysterical treat.  

    • sagecreek

      That was Ronald Guttman — instantly recognizable, but I had to go to the credits to see his name!

    • schadenfreudelicious

      they were wonderfully cast, but the accents didn’t quite work…much more Parisian French than French Canadian…..

      • http://profiles.google.com/slubird Sarah Louise Walker

         I thought her parents were French emigres? Or I know Megan said her mother was a “French extraction,” could mean either I guess.

        • schadenfreudelicious

          i always understood her parents to be Quebecois, hence all the references to Megan being Canadian…

          • emcat8

            No, she mentions being of “French extraction” in the Pond’s focus group with Dr. Faye. I think everyone just makes that mental connection of being Quebecois because of the French part, but they’ve never stated that fact.

          • schadenfreudelicious

            hmmm….i assumed her reference to “French extraction” meant being from Quebec and since that’s where her parents reside and where she said she grew up i was not getting a European French vibe…there has never been any mention of her parents being from anywhere other than Quebec…..

          • http://twitter.com/sara_clarke Sara Clarke

            Back in the day “French” meant anything ethnically/linguistically French. My family is Cajun, and my grandmother STILL describes us as “French”, despite the fact that you have to go back to the eighteenth century to find our French ancestry. Megan and I are about as French as Don Draper is English. 

            You still hear older people call Latin-Americans “Spanish”, remember.

          • http://twitter.com/Fotstan Joe Johnson

            SHE is definitely French Canadian. That doesn’t mean her parents didn’t emigrate to Canada from Europe.

  • Scimommy

    Fantastic recap. Truly. Which is to say – I agree with everything, lol. Even that Peggy’s mother is right and that Abe will eventually marry someone else. Oh man, I am so torn about this!!! On the one hand, Peggy is a modern woman, so marriage shouldn’t be THE goal. On the other… I have this, possibly old-fashioned, belief that if you find a person you like, who fits you and is good to you, you stick with them, with marriage acting as glue. That’s if you *want* a stable, long-term relationship, of course. And settling for living together when you really want to get married, because otherwise you think you’d be alone, is sad. I guess the question is – does Peggy *really* want to get married to Abe? I am really not sure. Just last episode they made it seem like he wasn’t very high on her list of priorities, certainly not compared to her job.

    The story with Megan is getting complicated. I truly have no idea where they are taking it, but am pretty sure that it’s nowhere good.

    • VanessaDK

       Cynthia Heimel, in her classic book “sex tips for girls” said that you should never, ever sleep with a man on the first date…unless you want to.

      I think Peggy most often comes from that school of thought on sex and marriage.  She doesn’t think things through very well.  She slept with Pete even though he was a co-worker, gives a hand-job in a movie, and I am sure there are other examples. She does seem to be thinking the relationship with Abe through a little more carefully, but is more concerned about how it looks to others than what it means for the long term of their life together.

    • http://typicalgirlink.wordpress.com/ Dorothy Damage

      Wow, do you honestly think that marriage acts as a glue? Marriage is a legal contract that grants you some protections and rights under the law, not some magical spell that keeps relationships together. There are a lot of people who have decades-long, long-term stable relationships without being married, and many married couples who divorce. I found your comment to be quite offensive, and as you stated, old-fashioned.

      • MissAnnieRN

        I wouldn’t presume to tell you what to be offended by, but some people do actually take marriage vows seriously.  Yes, technically it is a social contract.  But some people it a spiritual commitment made to one another in front of what God they call their own.  I don’t see that idea as offensive.  Yes, some people make commitments to one another without the vows of marriage.  And some people don’t take their marriage vows seriously.  

        Is marriage old fashioned?  Is it old fashioned to feel as though vows are binding and one must find their way back to them if mistakes are made?  

        • http://typicalgirlink.wordpress.com/ Dorothy Damage

           I say as someone who is married (but an atheist), that it’s not the idea that marriage that is old-fashioned, but the idea that people can’t commit to each other without marriage vows. And it’s offensive to say that people in a long-term relationship who aren’t married aren’t as serious as a married couple, especially considering that (in the US at least) there are many couples who aren’t legally allowed to get married. Are their relationships somehow less stable or less true?

          And if mistakes are made within the relationship, the couple should decide if that doesn’t speak loudly to whether they should actually be together, not feel constricted to remain in an unhappy relationship due to marriage vows and outdated social obligations. But I have a feeling that it is best to just agree to disagree on this issue.

          • rowsella

             I can see your point but that does not mean that the OP doesn’t have something there.  After all, for couples who cannot legally marry, they certainly wish to and are fighting for that right.  So it must mean something to them. 

          • http://typicalgirlink.wordpress.com/ Dorothy Damage

             Yes, but for a lot of couples (not saying all), it is a fight to have the same legal rights, especially for couples with medical issues, etc. I’m not knocking marriage, but I am knocking the idea that non-traditional relationships aren’t equally significant.

          • MissAnnieRN

            I think the large majority of BK’s will agree with you there, otherwise they might have problems reading a blog written by two gay men who are in a long term committed relationship.  If you reread the original post, nowhere does she say what you are asserting she intimated at.  There is nothing about 1966 that would have supported non-traditional relationships.  It’s ridiculous to super-impose a 2012 perspective on 1966.

          • MissAnnieRN

            I think the large majority of BK’s will agree with you there, otherwise they might have problems reading a blog written by two gay men who are in a long term committed relationship.  If you reread the original post, nowhere does she say what you are asserting she intimated at.  There is nothing about 1966 that would have supported non-traditional relationships.  It’s ridiculous to super-impose a 2012 perspective on 1966.

          • Scimommy

            I leave for a few hours, come back, and find out that my post mortally offended someone. Miss Annie, thanks for coming to my defense! You’ve made my case for me beautifully, so I have nothing to add. Except that yes, I am a bitter kitten through and through and am absolutely for equal marriage rights for all couples.

          • MissAnnieRN

            It’s OK.  Once I said that I didn’t like Taylor Swift’s “squinty eyes” and I got accused of being a racist Asian hater.  Other BK’s came to my defense :)

          • Glammie

            Ummm, there’s a difference between not wanting to make a marital commitment and not being allowed to.  

            I think it’s fine to agree to disagree about these things, but I also think you’re coming down hard on Scimommy with your talk about being “offended.”  

            Or let me put it this way–clearly “marriage” means enough that people are willing to fight long and hard for the right to marry the significant other of their choice.

          • MissAnnieRN

            The original poster didn’t assert that people who are not married cannot make commitments to each other.  She was speaking (and speculating) about Peggy’s motivations re: Abe.  Certainly for 1966, the concept of a committed, marriage-like relationship existing without marriage was totally foreign.  As TLo noted, even just the idea of a man and woman living together without being married was very progressive for the time.  The OP was simply speculating on Peggy’s motivations, not making a comment on society as whole.  Which is why I find this knee jerk reaction to her comments to be kinda strange.  

      • formerlyAnon

         Why offensive?

        • http://typicalgirlink.wordpress.com/ Dorothy Damage

           See above.

      • Lilithcat

        In fact, recent studies have indicated that people who live together prior to marriage are more likely to get divorced than those who don’t.  Yes, we can all point to individual cases that differ, but on average, Katherine’s right.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/M476USE6GD6VEE4RO6JA22VRLI Kriesa

          Yes, if by “recently”, you mean 1980s.
          http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/04/16/cohabitation_does_not_lead_to_more_divorce.html?wpisrc=twitter_socialflow

          The co-habitation effect is pretty much nil for contemporary relationships. Not that that means that it doesn’t apply to Peggy and Abe.

        • 1346143

          Actually recent studies I have seen indicated that people who don’t live together prior to marriage are more likely to get divorced than those who do. Guess Katherine is wrong.

        • annamow

          Yes, but you always have to take statistics with a grain of salt. For example, religious people are less likely to live together before marriage but also more likely to frown on divorce, bad marriage or no. On the flip side, a higher percentage of people who live together before marriage would not discount divorce as an option (more liberal, less living by religious rules). That is, the statistics may present a false cause-and-effect relationship.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM yahoo-ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM

           Don’t confuse correlation with causation.  Just because more people
          who live together before marriage gets divorced, it doesn’t mean that
          living together before marriage contributes to the divorce occurring. 
          More likely, it’s that for a bunch of those couples, one person didn’t
          really want to get married, and the other did.  So they lived together
          as a compromise or a stopgap.  

          One of two things happened in those couples: the one who didn’t want
          to get married refused, so they broke up; or the one who didn’t want to
          get married gave in.  So that leaves a chunk of people who are married
          and didn’t really want to be, but kind of felt like they had to in order
          to keep the other people happy.  Also, it’s harder to break up once
          you’re already living together, so some people will just agree to get
          married because they’re scared of losing their home, their security,
          etc.

          And also, those studies don’t take account of couples who just keep
          happily living together for the rest of their lives.  It only covers the
          people who lived together and then got married, which is only a subset
          of the total number of people who live together.

        • roadtrip1000

           What surprised me was that Abe didn’t even acknowledge why he wasn’t proposing. It seemed insensitive to me as he had made it clear he couldn’t wait to talk to her, plus he took out to a candlelit restaurant. Given the times a proposal would have been the norm. Nowadays that wouldn’t be true but given the social pressures back then a discussion between the two would have been nice. But of course in Mad Men what’s not spoken is often more significant than what is spoken.

          • Sweetbetty

             Yes, I was waiting for him to hint or imply that this was a step towards eventual marriage.  It’s to his credit that he didn’t do that if that isn’t his intention but it was surprising to me that he even thought Peggy would go for such a suggestion.  I had remarked a while back that she barely twitched an eyelash when the “proposal” went from marriage to shacking up and others disagreed, speaking about the emotion being so evident in her face.  What I meant was that another girl might have thrown a drink in his face and stormed out of the place after using a few choice words on the guy but Peggy (to the credit of Elizabeth Moss) showed a very subtle shift of emotion on her face.  Abe certainly didn’t pick up on it.

  • VanessaDK

    Megan springing from such cynical French Canadian roots may seem odd, but many children of bitter marriages are determined to make everything happy.  I am also glad to see that they are showcasing the divorce revolution that
    really swept through the US, more in the 1970s, but beginning in this
    era.

    I also really enjoyed seeing Megan’s depths this time — I am totally coming around to her perspective, which is a good thing because, except for Joan and Sally, there are not many characters I root for anymore on this show.

    • KaileeM

      Agreed. And, Megan’s mention that she is her father’s “favorite” may influence her to put on a happy face and try to be the carefree girl that perhaps provided distraction from unhappy times at home.
       
      I’m also really coming around on Megan. I didn’t like her at the end of last season, but now that her character has been more fleshed out I am starting to like and root for her.

  • schadenfreudelicious

    Julia Ormand as Megan’s mom was an inspired bit of casting….

  • VanessaDK

    The “children become their parents thing” combined with “some things never change” was  a little too heavy handed for me, but it did help the episode whiz along. It is also a cynical and sad take on characters we have known for several years now.  I’d like to see some of these characters make it out of this world and be part of the changes that took place in society–Joan, Peggy, Ken, Ginsberg, Abe, and of course Sally–all seem to have the potential to be part of a new world.  Roger, Lane, Don, Pete, Betty, and all the older generations, seem to be beyond changing.

    • CassandraMortmain

      Pete has pretty consistently been one of the most forward-thinking members of this group, at least when it comes to business.  He has appeared to be less racist than most of his co-workers, he understands that the old business model of three-martini lunches is on its way out and even though he’s now firmly ensconced in suburbia he clearly hates it and is miserable there.  He’s clearly in for a rough ride but I can see him coming out pretty well in the end.  Maybe he should drop some LSD with Roger to speed up the process.

  • http://twitter.com/fashunroadkill Chelle

    I was one of the people who complained before about nothing happening in this show and would tell people to wait for each season to come out on DVD so it could be watched back to back. But now everything is so anvil heavy that its off putting.

    I wish the writers would find a nice medium.

  • gsk241

    I remember having the same conversation with my mother in 1987 that Peggy had with hers in 1966.  Like almost verbatim the same.  Turns out my mother was right, so I really hope Peggy’s is wrong!

    • Gail Lucas

       Yup.  My take on the Peggy story line was that really, she was selling herself short.  She’s trying to pretty up living with Abe, but when it comes down to it, he doesn’t want to marry her.  And living with him is not the path to marriage.  Of course, I may be projecting – I lived with two men before getting married.  The man I married was the one I refused to live with before we were engaged. 

      • Melissa Brogan

        I agree Peggy is selling herself short and isn’t moving in with Abe because she wants to but because she’s taking a consolation prize. And their relationship is on shaky ground. But living with him isn’t necessarily not a path to marriage. I lived with two men before getting married. One of them is my husband.

      • http://deeplyproblematic.blogspot.com/ RMJ12345

        I agree that Peggy and Abe probably won’t make it to the alter, but not because they are living together first or because she’s selling herself short. Peggy very expressly wants other things, and she’s NOT that committed to this guy. Cohabitation is often an important stage to go through before marriage, but for Peggy, I think it’s a way station that allows her support and commitment to the person she loves – and the freedom to spread her legs and fly, professionally and with other men in the future.
        They won’t wed because Peggy doesn’t want marriage. She may think she wants it, for a moment, like she thought she wanted to be a secretary or sleep with Don or snag Pete or wanted that loser Joey from last season to think she was a virgin, but she doesn’t. She looked cute but so incongruous in that pink dress because while she can dress up like she wants a proposal, it doesn’t fit her. And the way she’ll figure it out is by living with this guy. I predict he’ll find himself wanting babies and pursue her to make more and more of a commitment to them (as he is here). She’ll react by throwing herself further into work and progressing beyond movie theater handjobs into Draper style affairs, because Mad Men likes to flip the script like that.  

        But it won’t be because they lived together. It’s an interesting contrast, seeing the rhetoric about living together not leading to marriage from Mrs. Olson with how cohabitation functions for me and my peers. I’m 26 and newly wed, and I lived with my husband for three plus years before marriage, and no one – not our landlord, friends, 50/60 something parents nor 70/80 something grandmothers  - thought it was anything other than a smart and considerate move considering our youth. Everyone thought it was the path to marriage (though of course we were already explicitly considering marriage when we moved in together, unlike Peggy).

        Today, when a peer marries without living with their partner first, I often consider them foolish and impulsive – like they haven’t done their research before making the biggest commitment. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, of course, I do know some folks my age who lived apart beforehand but dated at length and seem to be doing fine. But usually in my social circle, a couple who does not live together beforehand is also a couple who haven’t been together long and are rushing into marriage. Living together is less of a commitment than marriage for me and probably most couples, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a significant commitment. And to me, it’s what naturally comes before marriage. Probably not for Peggy and Abe, but it’s still a sign that they love each other and want to be together in an adult and intimate way.

        Sorry for the novel! Obviously I’m projecting a little, too :)

        • formerlyAnon

          I think  you have the right take on Peggy and Abe (as well as ably laying out how the ‘norms’ for much of society have changed in 40 years).

          I don’t think Peggy feels much different than a lot of guys – she wants the career, she wants marriage, if push came to shove I think she values the career more at this point – at least over Abe.

          But *in her time* she, and everyone around her, is just learning how to give a woman that set of choices. She’s been trained to *feel* even more than to think, that what will make her happy is a good marriage. (Just as Abe’s been trained, emotionally, that “the real thing” means a marriage.) Neither she (nor maybe Abe) can completely leave those emotions behind even if their intellects don’t track with them.

          I’ve felt from very early on that Abe’s respect for Peggy’s intellect and career, while real, will be limited by the more traditional partner he will find himself wanting or maybe just unconsciously expecting, eventually. Some couples can adjust their expectations of each other in order to make it “work” but I don’t see that with these two.

    • barbarasingleterry

      Peggy actually showed her disappointment at dinner with Abe.  You could see how hard she was smiling when she didn’t get the marriage proposal she was expecting.  Although she said yes, I think she really wanted more.

      • formerlyAnon

         At the very least, she wanted the proposal. She’s been raised her entire life that a proposal is what you get if a man truly loves you.

        Whether she really, truly wants to live out the rest of her life in a marriage to Abe is another thing. I don’t know if she even knows the answer to that.

    • EveEve

      My mother and I had this ”Milk-Cow” conversation in 1978.  And our family was very progressive and liberal, so it wasn’t about religion or morals.  It was about not settling just because you don’t want to be alone.  And yes,  she was right.  I sincerely hope I don’t have this conversation with any of my children because I know I’m going to beat myself up for sounding just like my mother. Did Peggy want Abe to ask her to marry him?  You bet she did.  You could see her heart pounding away in that scarlet dress in anticipation.

      • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

        I agree. Peggy clearly feels she’s lacking in the desirable woman category. Her professional ambitions alone put her in a different category than her peers. She obviously believes that women like Joan have nothing but romantic conquests and no heart breaks. It speaks to her naivete on the subject. Hence, she didn’t immediately assume a proposal, but a break up. Joan, who has more experience, understood that a man breaking up won’t suggest an expensive dinner. Once the idea of a proposal was put in Peggy’s head, it was exciting – how could it not be? But I think with Peggy, things are never clear. She didn’t want to break up, but had clearly never considered marriage either. Once the idea is there, she jumps on it and wants to make it a picture perfect evening with her fresh hair-do and new, very feminine, dress. I think she was both disappointed and relieved to not get the proposal. She has to take baby steps when it comes to her personal life. I think Elizabeth Moss does a great job in showing the subtle conflicting emotions of the character. The slight quiver in her voice to her Mom about being alone, or lonely, was quite wrenching.

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          Yes, that one line said it all. She is so good!

      • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

        I agree. Peggy clearly feels she’s lacking in the desirable woman category. Her professional ambitions alone put her in a different category than her peers. She obviously believes that women like Joan have nothing but romantic conquests and no heart breaks. It speaks to her naivete on the subject. Hence, she didn’t immediately assume a proposal, but a break up. Joan, who has more experience, understood that a man breaking up won’t suggest an expensive dinner. Once the idea of a proposal was put in Peggy’s head, it was exciting – how could it not be? But I think with Peggy, things are never clear. She didn’t want to break up, but had clearly never considered marriage either. Once the idea is there, she jumps on it and wants to make it a picture perfect evening with her fresh hair-do and new, very feminine, dress. I think she was both disappointed and relieved to not get the proposal. She has to take baby steps when it comes to her personal life. I think Elizabeth Moss does a great job in showing the subtle conflicting emotions of the character. The slight quiver in her voice to her Mom about being alone, or lonely, was quite wrenching.

      • luciaphile

        I’ve seen this with some of my friends. They get into relationships because they are really really uncomfortable not being in one. Sometimes it works out, but other times it doesn’t.

        • BayTampaBay

          luciaphile, I did not realize I was one of your friends! LOL! LOL!

      • FloridaLlamaLover

        I remember my Dad sitting me down (which was significant, because my Mom was the one who did all the “talks”) and telling me that Mr. G and Miss J., our neighbors, were “shacking up,” that it was wrong, and that Mr. G could just decide to kick her out at any time because it was his house and she didn’t have any claim to it at all, etc., etc.  This was around 1970.  I was totally clueless! Just knew that he had been married, his daughters (one a year older, the other a year younger than me) were brats, and that his ex-wife was pushy and rude, and that, Thank God, they were gone.  I couldve cared less that he and his new, cute girlfriend were living together.

      • tonibaloney

         Oof! I had the milk/cow conversation with stepmom about 2 years ago! Traditional ideas about cohabitation persist.

    • KQ67

      heh, I had that same conversation with my parents in 1987 as well. My dad thought it was a horribly shameful thing for me to “live in sin” with someone who he believed would never marry me. The boyfriend and I did get married a year later though (and divorced years later but that’s another story).

      • asympt

         Also in the 80s, my mother with elaborate casualness left my boyfriend alone in the living room with my father after dinner, when they’d found out we were moving in together, so my dad could find out if his intentions were honorable. It was strange for my dad, but he did figure out that that was the case (and not long after that came the marriage anyway).

        My sisters, even the younger ones after me, pretended they didn’t live with their husbands before the weddings.

        None of those relationships followed Peggy’s mother’s decryals of doom; but two decades earlier, this was seriously new territory.  To me it’s plain Abe is more serious about the relationship than Peggy, but he’s 1) rather self-consciously forward-thinking on social issues; 2) may even have been afraid Peggy, gun-shy, would “push the [eject] button” on something as stark as a marriage proposal.

        • P M

           I agree with conclusion 1). However, with conclusion 2), I think Abe is seeing in Peggy what he wants to see. Which is not the same as reality.

      • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

        Around 1975, my father helped my 25-year-old sister move in with her boyfriend. When I commented that he was being very progressive, he replied, “They need the help. If I don’t help, they’re going to do it anyway.” They are now married 35 years. I’m not for or against cohabitation, I just wanted to tell the story.

    • jennmarie19

      I agree with TLo on this one, sadly. Especially because Peggy clearly was hoping for a marriage proposal. She’s accepting less than she wants from Abe and reframing it as her own choice. Abe seems like a good guy but I don’t see them going the distance.

      • gsk241

        Thus, her response when he asked if she were ready to order dinner.  “I do.”

        • Sweetbetty

           Oh, yes!  I noticed that very specific choice of words too.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

      I just had basically the same conversation in 2007 with my parents.  We got engaged a year later and married a year after that. Sometimes it works out.

  • MzzPants

    You know, these reviews are like a feast to me.  I feel full and contentedly satisfied after reading one.  Thank you so much.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/W7A5N4G7FDTV5U2KOHBVSB55XI Basket

    What was up with the closeup of the fish on the plate? 

    • Mefein

       I’m not sure, but it was mentioned when she came to her dad’s for dinner that she didn’t like fish, which is why Megan made her spaghetti, which she said was a reward for her very adult behavior.  Now she is at probably her first all-adult function, and she’s stuck with the fish, and seeing a side of adult behavior she really didn’t want to see.

    • bookish

      Earlier in the episode Sally said she didn’t like fish (or maybe it was Megan who said it), and that was why Megan fixed spaghetti especially for the kids. So attempting to eat the fish that she didn’t like was another sign of Sally trying to act grownup for the evening.

      • sarahjane1912

        ‘Trying to act grownup for the evening’? Sorry, I can’t agree. In those days, it was the rare child who was a ‘picky eater’ and even then, allowances weren’t made for individual tastes, ESPECIALLY when eating out/in public. 

        One ate what one was given and it was expected there would be NO complaints and a clean plate at the conclusion of the meal. Or maybe that was just the upbringing we had [born in the mid-'60s]!! 

        I saw Sally’s grim determination to eat the fish as a sign that she was following the rules, not that she was maturing. Not that she isn’t maturing, mind, just that she was — in this instance — behaving as a well-raised child should in polite company.

        • Sweetbetty

           It was Bobby who said that Sally didn’t like fish and Megan said she knew that and had made spaghetti for the kids so Megan at least was accommodating to Sally’s picky eating.  I saw the sampling of the fish as her foray into adult behavior and it also seemed to me that she found it to be OK.  May be a connection for a future experiment with oral sex, which she found totally repulsive that night.

          • sarahjane1912

            That’s some leap! LOL! But where MM is concerned, I never discount even the most subtle of symbolic references. ;-)

            As you say, Megan accommodated Sally’s picky eating which I think is her [Megan's] attempt to circumvent any wicked stepmonster accusations. The fun day of shopping was part of that as well, I suspect.

        • bookish

          Yes, I suppose I’m looking at this from my own observations as someone born in 1985. I wasn’t a picky eater, but I’ve definitely seen my fair share. They usually weren’t catered to, but there was definitely complaining involved. My mom grew up in the 60s and was a picky eater, and she has stories of trying to hide food or trying to wash it down quickly with milk.

          • sarahjane1912

            To be fair, yes it’s true that ‘some’ tastes were catered to Way Back Then [my mother never served me custard, as her memories of my dislike of it were all too vivid; in c.1967, she was determinedly doing the Good Mother thing and feeding me before she dashed out to dinner in the City with my father, and I spit up custard right down the lapel of a cherished pale blue cocktail dress] and indeed, since my mother loathed brussel sprouts courtesy of a childhood with a cook-housekeeper who over-boiled them to mush, the first time I tasted them was in my university years!

            But really, we all DID ‘eat what was put in front of us’. And were reminded of the starving children in *insert poor country here* whenever we left food on our plates. ;-)

          • Sweetbetty

             ”But really, we all DID ‘eat what was put in front of us’. And were
            reminded of the starving children in *insert poor country here* whenever
            we left food on our plates. ;-)”                                 Which may explain why so many of us raised during that time ended up overweight.  To this day I just *cannot* throw away food and will force myself to clean my plate and would often clean my kids’ plates when they were at home too.

          • sarahjane1912

            Oh yes indeedy. Sigh. ‘Waste not, want not’, despite being a Victorian aphorism, definitely informed our childhood plates and contributed to my padded present! ;-)

    • http://annequichante.wordpress.com/ Anne

      Because Sally doesn’t like fish (that was why Megan made her spaghetti), but she ate it at the Cancer Society dinner anyway.

    • jleebeane

      Earlier in the episode, Bobby said Sally doesn’t eat fish (hence the spaghetti), and then at the banquet, Sally tried the fish. I interpreted it as another way of showing Sally is growing up.

    • FloridaLlamaLover

      I wasn’t wearing my glasses (silly me since I am near-sighted) but it looked like Sally pulled something from under the fish and ate that.  Or was she just avoiding all the fancy-schmancy stuff on top?  And 

      At the Codfish Ball” was a dance-song number fro Shirley Temple and Buddy Ebsen in the movie Captain January.  She was a cutie!

      • asympt

         She was avoiding the gross-looking stuff on top, spearing a piece of plain white meat from inside.

        Very brave, I thought.

        • Maggie_Mae

          It wasn’t just the fish–but the fact that it was looking up at her!  But she took a bite anyway & it was OK…

    • AZU403

      Sally doesn’t like fish, and there’s the whole thing on her plate, head and all. (When this happens to me I put a napkin over its face.) She exhibited her increasing maturity by trying to eat some instead of squealing “Eww!”

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

      Though I swear I remember Betty feeding the kids fish sticks for dinner (along with tater tots, hot dogs and similar fare), but I guess fish sticks aren’t really “fish.”

      • http://twitter.com/_KarenX Karen Miller

         Didn’t she also ask for (and then try to refuse to eat) a tuna fish sandwich when Grandma Pauline was babysitting?

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

          Oh, good point. But wasn’t that because it had pickle relish in it or something? I don’t remember it being about the tuna per se. But I could be remembering incorrectly.

        • Melissa Brogan

           I don’t like eating fish, as in a slab of tuna or salmon or cod on a plate, but I’ll eat tuna fish sandwiches. To me it’s not the same at all. And I could choke down fish sticks as a kid when it came down to it.

          • Sweetbetty

             You’re lucky you didn’t grow up Catholic before and during the Mad Men era.  We weren’t allowed to eat meat on Fridays so our meals were always fish or meatless spaghetti.  That rule was changed in the very year MM is now but it took most of us a long time to eat meat on a Friday without feeling like we’d be struck by a thunderbolt.

          • Melissa Brogan

            I didn’t grow up in religion at all, and neither did my mother. I can’t personally imagine eating according to the whims of a church at all, really.

          • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

             Many if not most religions have food rules of some kind. If you didn’t grow up with it, then you would have no reason to understand.

          • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

            Neither can Abe!

          • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

             My mother still pretty much only makes fish on Friday’s. Old habits!!

        • Munchkn

           Some people who don’t like fish will eat fish sticks and canned tuna because they don’t have to deal with the bones and other stuff that grosses them out about fish.

          • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

            I know a guy who won’t eat meat with bones in it. Grosses him out.
            And this guy is nearly 40, has multiple tattoos and piercings, does suspension (hanging from the ceiling with said piercings)– but chicken drumsticks freak him out. Go figure.

          • formerlyAnon

            I adore little vignettes like this. If you took real people and put them in you novel, an awful lot of them would be deemed “unrealistic/exaggerated/unbelievable.”

          • formerlyAnon

            *your* novel

            (because discus does not want to let me edit at the moment & it bugs)

          • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

            Add me to the tuna salad and fish sticks group but add shrimp. Anything else is out. I tell people it’s because I’m a Pisces.

      • Sweetbetty

         LOL, that thought ran through my head too.  I distinctly remember a scene where Don came home from the office while the kids were eating a dinner of fish sticks and taking one and eating it.  Then, like you, I thought that fish sticks are different from an actual piece of fish on the plate.  Good for Sally for trying it out; her horizons are expanding, though not all in a good way.

      • FloridaLlamaLover

        True — even my hubby will eat fish sticks now and again, and his idea of “fish” is shrimp!

  • http://www.what-the-frock.com Dana WhatTheFrock

    I love whenever the show gives us some Joan/Peggy interaction. 

    Peggy: “Someone dumped you?”
    Joan: “I’m just like everyone else.”

    And I loved the scene between Peggy and Megan. 

    Can’t wait for Mad Style – I want to hear what you have to say about Peggy’s pink dress and Sally’s outfit.

    • charlotte

       Peggy’s face when she couldn’t believe that someone might have dumped Joan was pure gold.

  • http://profiles.google.com/dorothymichael Dorothy & Michael n/a

    As usual your recap is pitch perfect.  But am I the only one wondering how Don is going to turn around their business plan if it took Cynthia’s dad to tell him the truth – that no one wants to work with him because of the way he cozied up to The American Cancer Society at the expense of a former client?  To me this was the pivotal moment of the episode -  how will he transform his business once again and find a way to lure customers to his firm?  He’ll have to keep that tidbit to himself instead of sharing it with his partners because if they found out, they’d all be panic-stricken.  The Don/Megan team very well might be the path ahead to future business.

  • miagain

    Megan’s campaign reminded me of Peggy’s popsicle ad… the mother breaking the popsicle and sharing with the child.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3KCDEX4FOTCFHZP6WLKSOOKUVM Danielle

       Me too – the ritual aspect of it.

  • iambilljr

    I love post-LSD trip Roger. He was hilariously on fire last night. His scenes with Sally were marvelous. An episode that should be his Emmy nomination reel for this season.

    Parroting others, but my fave episode so far this season.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

      I LOVED the conversation with Mona – telling her he tried LSD and how great it was – and also that he mentioned it to Don. (Well actually I love anything with Mona in it – more Mona!) Funny how he’s being so candid about it. I guess this was before LSD had such a ‘hippie’ following and was still associated with ‘science.’

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

      I LOVED the conversation with Mona – telling her he tried LSD and how great it was – and also that he mentioned it to Don. (Well actually I love anything with Mona in it – more Mona!) Funny how he’s being so candid about it. I guess this was before LSD had such a ‘hippie’ following and was still associated with ‘science.’

      • AZU403

        Mona’s looking pretty good, too. Divorce becomes her.

        • Lisa_Cop

          She’s Talia Balsam- Roger’s wife in real life

          • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

            Shut up!  God, I was thrilled to see her looking so fantastic.  As echoed here throughout, divorce becomes her.

      • Mefein

         In fact, LSD’s only just about to become illegal at this point.

      • luciaphile

        Cary Grant is probably the most famous proponent of taking LSD as a therapeutic tool. He was part of a very vocal group that saw it positively. This was before it hit the mainstream and people started jumping out of windows thinking they could fly, etc.

        • MK03

          Did that really happen? I thought that was one of those anti-drug stories cooked up to scare kids.

          • formerlyAnon

            All I can say from certain knowledge is that percentage of those on acid lose enough contact with objective reality that they aren’t really safe unsupervised. (Just like a percentage have a truly miserable, anxious experience rather than anything liberating).  I suspect (though can’t quote statistics) that the idea that kids tried to defy gravity in droves was anti-drug propaganda promulgated by terrified parents.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

            Yup. I remember my mom also telling me that Pixie Sticks had angel dust in them. But mostly I think that was because she didn’t want me to eat Pixie Sticks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1344922354 Eric Scheirer Stott

    I loved Pete’s little exchange with Emile- turning on the charm while deftly putting down Emile’s condescending attitude that his job is nothing. Pete has been such a little sh*t this season that it’s nice to see him get a moment to shine.

    • judybrowni

      And put the smug Emile in his place.

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      As much as he deserved getting punched in the face earlier in the season, I sure loved seeing him dish it out, Pete Campbell style! My favorite scene. :)

    • Melissa Brogan

       Pete can be a smarmy bastard, but when he’s justified I love seeing him show people up. Turn the charm dial to 11 and follow up by saying, “see, that’s what I do all day.” Ha!

    • Snarky_Amber

      I agree. My BF and I were actually cheering Pete in that exchange despite cheering Lane on just two weeks ago. “What do I do? I flatter insecure douchebags like you all day.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1344922354 Eric Scheirer Stott

         It also serves to reminds us that Pete really does have some abilities, and that Roger acted like a jackass towards him.

    • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

      I know, I loved that, too!  Pete’s little moment to shine, and it was pitch perfect.

  • zoubisou

    Man, I don’t know what I look forward to more: the show or this blog. Thanks!

  • Jennifer Coleman

    I don’t think Peggy, even in her cute pink velvet ‘engagement ask’ dress was truly ready to say yes to a marriage proposal. She might’ve thought somehow it’s the right thing to do according to the social mores, but deep down, I sense reluctance on her part & even though her mom was kind of right, I don’t think Peggy minds.

    I’m not sure Megan’s ‘passion’ is in performance because her dad’s too intellectual to get excited about that. Also, even though the bean pitch is in the Draper mold, it differs from the previous gems because is was so disingenuous and pedestrian in its delivery, which is a huge comedown from the Kodak carrousel presentation, for instance. Even though it wasn’t done in the traditional office setting, it was still quite corny for Don.

    Another thing which is being hammered on us is the blending of work & home for Don specifically. He’s married and elevated his workmate, partied with them at his apartment, done a pitch at dinner,  and make love in the office. Before, there were discrete boundaries and protocol which is breaking down more each week.

    • Maggie_Mae

      “Mr Heinz” was a rather corny client. He claimed that he wanted something forward-thinking, but the agency wasn’t able to deliver.  Sorry, canned beans are not hip & will never be.  Megan’s idea was family-based–but had that touch of the future to appeal to the bean guy….

      Good for Mrs Heinz, too.  She warned Megan that the company was going to be dumped.  Then she helped convince her husband that it was a good campaign. (Well, as good as any canned bean campaign can be!)  She’s probably happy being a traditional wife & mother–but she’s sat through enough business dinners to know how things work….

      • Jennifer Coleman

        Exactly! Almost the entire table conspired to get Mr. Heinz onboard, with the exception of Cynthia, who is not a real ‘company wife’.

        • Amy Ellinger

          My husband yelled “oh my god, shut up!!” when she asked for more coffee and interrupted the moment!

  • iambilljr

    Oh! And Mona was back! Loved seeing her again. Divorce agrees with her.

    • schadenfreudelicious

      me too!, tho i have thought it must be odd playing scenes as the ex wife of the man you are married to in real life :)

      • http://twitter.com/fashunroadkill Chelle

        I googled her and I didn’t know she was married to George Clooney!

        I’m insanely jealous that she got both both George and John. Damn! Four for you Mona, you go Mona!

        • schadenfreudelicious

          i know!, it’s insanely too much handsomeness for one woman to be married to! :)

    • Lilithcat

      She looked amazing!  Years younger.

  • http://profiles.google.com/phyllis.craine Phyllis Craine

    Yes dirty indeed and only 3 years away from beginning of the dangerous, post-acpocalyptic, on-the-verge-of bankruptcy NYC of the 70′s

  • http://twitter.com/DarrenNesbitt Darren Nesbitt

    *starts slow applause” . . . You hit on everything perfectly! BUT I don’t think Sally is running from the stable yet, she is being groomed to be a Slick, lil bitch (and possibly a luxurious whore like the women around her). Late night phone calls with her BF, Make-Up and dresses, Dinners with all adults, and watching a Grandiose woman give a blow job. . . What will her future hold?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584364405 Sabrina Abhyankar

      who around Sally is a whore? 

    • Maggie_Mae

      Sally will grow up to be a complex, intelligent woman.  

      I didn’t see any whores last night….

    • judybrowni

      Could you be any more offensive?

    • http://twitter.com/Selkiechick Selkiechick

       I think that girl is going to reject it all, the old money world of her mother and step-father, the new money, and slick glamour of her dad’s world. That girl will be rolling in the mud at Woodstock in denim and paisley in just a few years….

      • KaileeM

         Oh, I totally agree. How better to shock her monied, Manhattan-socializing parents than by becoming a hippie?

  • MilaXX

    I may have to re-watch because I read the Peggy scene a bit different. I thought she really was expecting a marriage proposal and was disappointed when he asked to move in.  That said I never really thought he was much more than a convenient full time booty call for Peggy. I have no doubt her will move into her place though.

    Megan’s cheery sunny act may very well be overcompensation for her parent’s crappy marriage.

    The difference between sally with the go-go boots & makeup reminded me of what I dislike about many of the tweens and younger teen starlets we see on this blog. The boots & makeup crossed the line between youthful and trying too hard to be grown territory.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

      I think Peggy and Abe could have a good thing together – they click in a lot of ways. I don’t see her ‘settling’ for him as others here have suggested. They’re just young and need to work some things out. I also appreciated that Abe was clearly uncomfortable in the conversation with Stan and Michael about Peggy’s bra/breasts – I thought their big conversation was going to be him telling Peggy that he didn’t like the way the men in the office were disrespectful to her, objectifying her in that way. And I do think Peggy was disappointed by the lack of marriage proposal, and maybe that her disappointment surprised her. An interesting and complex situation all around.

      BTW – I’ve always thought the actor who plays Abe is super-cute but he appears to have buffed out since last season – yum!

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        YES, I was wondering if this is as much a “marking of territory”, as it is a declaration of love.
        I mean, I do think he truly cares for her, but I don’t know that she feels the same.

  • MissAnnieRN

    I don’t know why I didn’t think of this before.  So I just did some googling.  The Heinz son was apparently married in February of 1966 to Teresa Heinz who would later become Teresa Heinz Kerry.  H. John Heinz III (husband to Teresa) would later become Senator (1976), but not before first holding positions within the Marketing dept @ Heinz.  I find it fantastically interesting when TV and historical fiction interact.  I wonder how much play we will see with that…

    • Sobaika Mirza

      Did you get the slight dig at Romney in the second episode?

      • MissAnnieRN

        If I did, I don’t remember it…Fill me in.

        • CarolinLA

          Henry was on the phone talking about Romney’s dad saying that he was a clown and he didn’t want the governor to be seen with him.

        • Sobaika Mirza

          He called Romney (the senior) a clown. I think it happened just as we were cut to the scene to it was easy to miss. I caught it on a repeat viewing. I always love finding little winks to the audience.

  • http://twitter.com/Fotstan Joe Johnson

    Thanks for pointing out what a big deal unmarried co-habitation was in 1966. It was sort of out there in the nether realms of weird things that fringe people might do, so if anything I think the episode didn’t get it quite right. Peggy’s mother (played by a wonderful actress, by the way) would have been more upset, and I’m not sure Joan would have taken the idea so well. But you’re right that Joan has mellowed in her outlooks due to her own failed marriage.

    • Maggie_Mae

      That was just about the time that living together was beginning to be Not So Weird.  In 1966, it was whispered that an older married couple at college at “lived together” before marriage.  But within a few years, it was not all that strange. (This is Texas.) 

      However, parents were generally not let in on the truth….

    • http://twitter.com/Selkiechick Selkiechick

       Joan of a few year ago would have dragged Peggy into the supply closet by the ear and given her a talk that would have kicked off with “are you insane… “. But times have changed, and Joan has just had a sad sobering lesson in what happens when you marry before you properly know someone. She is about to be one of those Divorced Women… almost as scandalous as a woman living in sin. (He was a DOCTOR, and they had a BABY… can you IMAGINE…)

      The proper response to “Why would he buy the cow when he can get the milk for free”, is “who buys a pig in a poke?”

  • EEKstl

    Phenomenal episode, great recap.  We, too, had to pause the DVR at the “someday she’ll open her legs and fly away” line, so busy were we chortling with laughter, “no he didn’t!” and (yet again) admiring the brilliance of the writing.  As others had mentioned this episode was replete with incredible one-liners, from “Margaret Dumont” to Jesus pitching the loaves and fishes account and beyond.  A couple reality checks for me were Julia Ormand as Megan’s mother (she’s my age!! Oh wait, that math isn’t crazy!  Oy!) and actually agreeing with Katherine Olsen’s prognostications.  And this the day after some AARP invite came in the mail.  Hey, beats the alternative, right?

    • sarahjane1912

      Absolutely. 

      Don was even turned on by Megan’s smarts [witness the post-dinner car action] and this feeling persists into the next day; he’s practically glowing from her idea and the way she directed the pitch. I honestly didn’t expect him to be SO enthusiastic and I hope, I truly do, that this is a mini-step in the right direction for Don, but wouldn’t put money on it. ;-)

  • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

    I’m trying to understand Emile’s Marxist stuff and how it relates to his
    disappointment in his daughter Megan. Is he so disappointed because she’s not following her passion, and he knows that her passion is acting and that’s why she came to New York? Because he understands being a working actor and pursuing work/roles means she is poor but it’s better than the bourgeoisie trappings she lives in while she pursues a job with no real meaning?

    Grandmas going down: brilliant.

    • greenwich_matron

      I think that you summed up why he thinks he is disappointed in her. I think he is really disappointed because she is not the perfect reflection of him that he wanted her to be. I suspect he would rather have her be a failure as an actress because he can imagine that she is still striving for his ideals. If she was a successful actress, I suspect he would be disappointed in her selling out to the (Hollywood, Broadway, Anglo, whatever) forces.

      I really didn’t like him…

    • Sweetbetty

       Yeah, I’m wondering about that too.  I could understand it if Megan’s “passion” was something altruistic but being an actor is hardly a job with real meaning and if she is successful at it she’ll end up being surrounded by even more bourgeoisie trappings than she is now.  That and the fact that Megan has downplayed her “acting” background leads me to believe that her passion is something else.

      • girliecue

        ITA. I’m not sure Megan even knows yet what her passion is. During the Heinz dinner she was acting and she loved the win. I’m not quite convinced that she finds advertising unfulfilling. What may lead to her and Don’s seemingly inevitable breakup is if she winds up being better at the advertising game than him and also becomes ambitious for herself. Dammit! Call me Pollyanna but I really hope they stay together, or at least break up amiably.

        • 3hares

          Totally agree. I think Megan dropped acting because she didn’t have a passion for it, and doesn’t have a passion for advertising either, even if she is capable of coming up with a great idea and pitching it well in this ep. And even if her friend said she was a great actress.

        • sarahjane1912

          Agree. I don’t think Megan knows what she wants, career-wise, either. I keep thinking of what she said about copywriting a few eps ago — “I saw what Don and Peggy were doing and it looked like fun” — and that totally sums up her nature/attitude to me. I suspect, like many young people even today, that she has bounced around, dipping her toe into various interests here and there [eg acting, singing etc] but hasn’t really found anything that she absolutely loves. Not everyone has a burning passion or one true dream. 

          I also think that Emile was probably pestering her about her acting because that’s something HE wanted to see her doing, not that it was something that drove Megan herself. In my humble opinion of course. ;-)

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Micaela-Cannon/1465504041 Micaela Cannon

         A lot of actors probably resent the idea that “being an actor is hardly a job with real meaning”.  There are certainly a lot of bs and hack actors in the world, but at it’s purest form acting is one the oldest and greatest forms of art and communication.  I also can’t wrap my head around the idea that because Megan’s father is a scholar and a socialist he would have less appreciation for creative endeavors rather than more.  Generally speaking (generally people, generally!) theater goers are much more likely to be well educated and inclined towards discussions of a philosophical nature. The amount of theatre promoting socialist agendas and ideals is also astounding, and began in the early 20th century. During the 1960′s, off Broadway and off-off Broadway was really taking off and opening new doors in the realms of theatre, dramatic and social conscious theatre especially. The mention of Edward Albee at the Heinz dinner was certainly telling to me. In earlier years, Ken would have been buying clients tickets to the latest Rodgers and Hammerstein. Edward Albee was a ground breaking playwright in many respects.

         To me, the conversation with Megan and her father has absolutely nothing to do with HIS personal and political beliefs but rather his great disappointment that his daughter has put her own life on hold for marriage with this man.  I got no sense that he wants Megan to be a perfect reflection of himself, but rather that he could see that she was running from her dreams in light of disappointments and rejection, and has settled for a life and a career that are not what she wanted for herself. I think, like any good parent, he wants to push her toward her own dreams and ambitions and disheartened to see her selling beans, when obviously, she has no passion for it.

        • http://www.deborahwiles.com/ GoodSally

           I think you’re right about the theater and its power to provoke, educate, enlighten, etc., and also about how Emile sees his daughter’s choices. He’s disappointed that she has “settled,” then, for what he sees as less than what she thought she wanted. That makes sense. He likely backed her dream to come to New York and become an actress.

          Notice how Megan is always downplaying her talents… she demures at the Heinz praise, and also at her friend’s assertion that she’s a good actress… hmmm…

        • annamow

          I completely agree with your take actors. Why would people claim that acting is *necessarily* “selling out”? Acting is an art, as much as painting, writing, etc. Definitely not in the same realm as working for an advertising agency (not that there’s anything wrong with that!)…

          • terekirkland

             I felt like Emile was in-part disappointed that his daughter gave up on her dream (whether that is acting or something else), but I feel like he was more disgusted by the fact that she, and her husband, currently work in a field that is about as capitalist as it gets. They’re selling the American Dream, and Emile’s socialist leanings just can’t come to grips with that. It’s not the “settling” that bothers him so much, but the setting she has settled into. Maybe I’m reading into it too much…

          • formerlyAnon

             I saw it this way. But not just that she’s ‘sold out’ by settling into a world that’s the antithesis of what he sees as right thinking – but that his daughter, whom he’s clearly enjoyed in the past, is implicitly rejecting [or so he feels] *him* by rejecting his values.

            But he rubbed me the wrong way & probably because of that I felt that, deep down, he was offended by her choices more than hurt by them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tracy-Alexander/3234141 Tracy Alexander

    It struck me as odd that Sally and Bobby had never met the Calvets before. Did Don and Megan not have a wedding? You’d think that all parties involved would have been present at even a small family affair.

    • Sweetbetty

       Speaking of Bobby, did anyone notice him refilling Emile’s fountain pen on that white carpeting?  From the amount of ink splattered on that newspaper it’s a fair bet that it seeped right through.  I was waiting for Megan to freak out about that.

      • Squirrel270

        Yes.  That fit both the “New York is dirty” and “look what happens on the Drapers’ white carpet” themes.

      • asympt

         That was what Don drily thanked Emile for–the trashed carpet.

      • dress_up_doll

        I noticed it as well. I thought of it as Emile’s way of sticking it to Don and Megan for their plush surroundings which he did not approve.

    • juliamargaret

      I think they only married in May and this is September or October. We don’t even know if they had a ceremony and reception or just a civil ceremony.

    • http://twitter.com/sara_clarke Sara Clarke

      They may not have. Apparently (according to my parents), second weddings were very simple affairs back before divorce was ordinary. Frankly, weddings in general were more simple back then. My parents (married in ’79) both came from comfortable middle class families, and their wedding reception was in my grandparents’ back yard. 

      It’s also entirely possible that it’s the Draper kids who wouldn’t have been allowed to attend Don’s wedding, not that Megan’s parents wouldn’t. Remember that Betty and Henry got married in Nevada.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tracy-Alexander/3234141 Tracy Alexander

        It still seems somewhat out of character for both Don and Megan. Megan is her parents’ youngest and favorite child (according to her), so I’d assume they would have been there. Especially since it’s her first marriage. And for all of Don’s faults, he tends to empathize with his children and I don’t think they would have been excluded. But apparently, at least one of the families wasn’t there.

        • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

          Well then there is also the possibility of Betty being vindictive and not allowing the kids to attend. Or conveniently taking them out of town that weekend.
          Honestly though, I have the feeling that they eloped.

  • http://annequichante.wordpress.com/ Anne

    I think the greatest thing about the “spread her legs and fly away” was the timing of Megan’s “Wings, Daddy.”  The space in between was just long enough for the truth to sink in. 

    I loved Julia Ormond as Megan’s mother, and Roger was really on a roll this episode.  Everything he said made me laugh.  And I loved the moment where Bobby went to answer the door before the ACS benefit and it was Roger, and Bobby said, “Are you babysitting?”

    • barbarasingleterry

      Roger still can’t tie his bowtie!  How many times have we seen one of his women tie it for him?  I also loved his line about being born with one and he didn’t tie that one either….

    • EEKstl

      John Slattery was just wonderful last night, and the writing for Roger was genius.  It was pretty evident where the evening was going to end up from Roger’s first, very subtle double-take at Megan’s mother.  From “oh, hello” to “…whoa! What do we have here?” in 2 seconds flat.  Brilliant.

  • ldancer

    I was visiting my parents, so my mom ended up watching it with me. She’s never seen it before. I think she enjoyed it, but she did have some comments.nshe felt that Peggy’s mom’s sarcasm wasn’t period accurate. She also had some beef with Peggy’s beige plaid, and with Megan’s pink gown; she grew up in my grandfather’s tailor shop, where he made all the very latest Vogue and Bazaar fashions for women, and she said that the plaid wasn’t correct for the time (too masculine), and the gown wasn’t of the time either. I will agree to disagree with her on matters of character, and eagerly await Mad Style for the rest, as I am not a fashion expert.

    • judybrowni

      He may have been right for Vogue and Bazaar styled fashions, but I wore something plaid very similar to Peggy’s in that period.

  • http://www.facebook.com/WendyLKaufman Wendy Kaufman

    So, over at our house, we were wondering, has Don Draper actually ever come up with a winning pitch–ever? We keep seeing him walk in, make pronouncements to underlings like Peggy, and then leave it all to them. Have I simply forgotten actually seeing his great advertising chops? 

    • Musicologie

      “It’s toasted.” The Carousel. He’s had enough actual successes to have earned it.

    • MilaXX

      wasn’t the Kodak pitch all his?

    • Lilithcat

      has Don Draper actually ever come up with a winning pitch–ever?

      Kodak.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1344922354 Eric Scheirer Stott

         Even if he doesn’t always come up with his own ideas he can pitch other peoples ideas very effectively.

      • judybrowni

        And his his winning pitch for Lucky Strikes in the first episode: “They’re toasted!”

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      Glo-coat.

    • 3hares

      Adding to the other’s mentioned, the commercial that won the Clio in the end turned out to be due to Don’s ideas.

      • http://www.facebook.com/WendyLKaufman Wendy Kaufman

        Thanks everyone. Maybe it’s just this season?

        • http://deeplyproblematic.blogspot.com/ RMJ12345

          I think it’s definitely this season. They’re making a point about the erosion of his talents/ambition, kind of mirroring Roger.

      • astoriafan

        Glo-coat was really Peggy’s idea; Don just fleshed it out. They had that (awesome) fight about it, in which Don told Peggy he paid her for her ideas, and she said wtte “You never say thank you,” and Don said “That’s what the money is for!”

        • 3hares

          Oh yes, I definitely remember the fight! But when they went over exactly who did what Don’s fleshing out did seem to be what made the commercial exceptional, so I’d count that as him having a win (as well as Peggy).

  • Amy_R

    The Margaret DuMont comment was priceless…Roger at his best! And luv Ray Wise. Poor Sally, Don was trying to keep her from growing up too fast, but Roger and Frenchy ruined that.

  • Eva_baby

    I LOVED that penultimate scene where the 3-generations of Calvet-Drapers all sat at that table looking all miserable.  It was such a nice contrast to how everyone started out the evening all happy and optimistic. 

    Also LOVED that little moment between Pete and Emile.  That is the Pete I’ve been wanting to see all season. 

    And finally, this was a nice call back to ‘Blowing Smoke’ from Season 4 in a lot of ways.   That was the episode where he first met the Heinz guy who was interested in SCDP but not really.  He wanted to wait 6 months before he would consider meeting with Don because everyone thought SCDP was dead-men walking right after Lucky Strike kicked them to the curb and nobody wanted to give them business.  That of course precipitated both Don’s letter and the phone call from the American Cancer Society.  But as we saw by this episode people are still wary of giving them business, except the Heinz guy.

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      I had forgotten that!

  • annrr

    I really like what they did with moms and daughters in this episode especially Peggy and her mom. My mom’s  advise when I told her I was moving in with a boyfriend was  ” Why buy a cow when you can get milk for free.”  When Katherine told Peggy he’d marry someone else to Peggy, in my head I thought she is probably right.

    Back to Mad Men. I am loving that Rodger is back to his charming self. He was adorable with Sally, loved the scene with Mona and my favorite line of the night was “over by Margaret Dumond.”  One of the best lines ever, along with ”Grandmas go Down.” You bitches are hilarious.

    • formerlyAnon

       ” My mom’s  advise when I told her I was moving in with a boyfriend was  ” Why buy a cow when you can get milk for free.”"

      I had to laugh! Those were my dad’s exact words when friends who were living together (they were a year out of college, I was a year behind) came through town and stayed at my parents’ house before they & I embarked on a cross-country drive. After MUCH angst, my parents (who would have been born about 10 years before Peggy) put them up in the same room. This was in 1980.

    • annamow

      Roger was great with Sally! Too bad that relationship’s ruined – no way will Sally look at him the same again :(

    • Kylara7

      My response to the “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”, which I find horribly gendered and rooted in the transactional model of sex, has been “why buy the whole pig when all you want is a bit of sausage?”  Guaranteed jaw-dropper or gut-busting laughter, depending on your audience ;)  

      • Sweetbetty

         Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you for that!  I’ve GOT to commit that to memory and use it at the very next opportunity.

      • PaulaBerman

        Here’s the difference: men can screw around indefinitely, settle down later in life, and still have children without a problem, with a younger woman in many cases. They are, even now, more marketable at older ages. Women have a time limit on their reproduction, and unfortunately, the older you are the harder it is to get married or have children. This is why it’s tough to spend a lot of time in a quasi-committed relationship that ends, leaving you as a woman in your 30s and considerably less fertile, if not marriageable. I wish it were not so, but it is.

        • http://deeplyproblematic.blogspot.com/ RMJ12345

          Um, the point of the response is that those aren’t her goals or desires. The woman who just wants a bit of sausage isn’t concerned with the “limits on their reproduction.” Not every woman gets into a relationship to get married/have children. They don’t want to be committed.

          • PaulaBerman

             Um, did you see how disappointed she was when she didn’t get the marriage proposal? If she only wants Abe for sausage, then she isn’t admitting that to herself. Not sure if she wants to have children either.

          • Glammie

            Peggy’s said she wanted to have children “someday.”  She’s also said she thinks about her baby by playgrounds.

            There’s never been a sign that Peggy doesn’t want a marriage and kids at some point.  This is in contrast to Faye Miller last season who made it pretty clear she wanted a career and didn’t really want kids.  I think one of the reasons Don dropped her is that Faye wasn’t going to be into the stepmother role.

        • Guest

          You’re assuming every woman wants children/marriage.

          • PaulaBerman

             No. But it sure seemed like Peggy wanted it.

        • Kylara7

          Yeah…I’m totally NOT interested in children or marriage so I don’t feel as if I have an expiration date :)  Happily shacked up with my partner for the long-term and grateful to live in modern times!

          • PaulaBerman

             Wanting to have kids really does force the timetable. I didn’t care either way and stayed single until 36. Now I’m 40, and chasing a toddler around makes me wish I was 10 years younger.

          • Glammie

            Yep.  I work with parents and young kids and there are a lot of middle-aged parents of very young children–and a lot of serious jumping through hoops to have/adopt those kids.  I think there’s a difference between not wanting kids “right-now” and never-ever wanting kids.  A lot (not all) of women close in on 40 and realize they’re in the first group and not the second.  Age does really does force the decision for women in a way it doesn’t for men (i.e. Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson both had a slew of kids in their 50s.  Michael Douglas as well.)

          • PaulaBerman

             And I feel like I wasted a LOT of time in my 20s overinvesting in relationships with men that weren’t going anywhere. The reproductive expiration date is very real, and when you wind up in your mid-thirties, after cohabitating and dating fruitlessly, no marriage prospects in sight, you can get a little bitter. It worked out for me, but I have so many girlfriends who are still single and childless in their late 30s/early 40s for exactly this reason. Men do not have the same constraints, and this biological inequity informs many decisions. I think Peggy’s mother’s advice, while harsh, was probably prophetic. This new housing arrangement is not going to give Peggy what she wants.

          • Glammie

            Yep.  I’m older than you and saw something similar.  We kind of mosey along and then find we’re up a biological deadline.  Having a biological child at 39 is *much* easier for a woman than having one at 45.  For men, there’s very little, if any, difference.  So they wait and *can* wait.  And I know women who kind of expected to have kids and, then, usually because of relationships that just kind meandered on for years, found that they no longer had much of a choice about it.  It’s not fair, but it’s there.

            Peggy’s still very young (26,27?) and kind of finding her way through a nontraditional life.  I think, though, part of her definition of success is being wanted enough that she does receive a proposal.  Again, I think the real contrast is to Faye Miller, who seemed to me someone who really could take or leave marriage.  I think even Joan, now that she has the kid, is less invested in being able to get married than Peggy is.  Peggy is compromising without even telling Abe that she’s doing so.

            I actually lived with a guy for years before marrying him.  (We’re now at 17 years.)  The living together was *my* choice–I didn’t feel ready to get married, had and still have mixed feelings about the institution.  And I still think Peggy’s mom had a point–because Abe gets what he wants, but Peggy’s not even saying what she wants.

            Hmmm, I think a lot of the episode was about women not being able to assert themselves–except for Marie’s passive-aggressive blowjob.  I wonder if it’s part of the reason Betty’s absence was particularly noticed.  It was her kind of storyline.  

  • greenwich_matron

    Great review. 

    The only thing that Peggy’s mom may be wrong about is what Peggy ultimately wants. Abe and Peggy didn’t even mention the future of their relationship or commitment, only convenience. I think she is happy about it mostly because she doesn’t have to deal with either extreme (break up or commitment) quite yet.  I find it hard to believe that they would make this decision without even mentioning how controversial it was, though. During the 1970s, my mother rearranged the entire house to make sure that my cousin and his long-term live-in girlfriend slept in separate rooms when they visited. She also made sure that everyone in our extended family knew this lest they thought she condoned their hanky-panky. 

    I would have loved to see a scene between Emile and Peggy. She is actively examining her world and making conscious decisions about what societal norms work for her and don’t, while he is pompously deriding it without any reflection or self awareness at all. I suspect his consoling grad student wears expensive lingerie and looks a  lot like Megan.

    • formerlyAnon

       I agree with you, strongly, on all points.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM yahoo-ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM

       Ewwww at “looks a lot like Megan”.  Not disagreeing, just ewwww.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

        Well, and remember that Megan is like a younger version of her also-very-young mom – who may well have been one of Dr. Calvet’s grad students herself at one point.

        • greenwich_matron

          And the Ewwwws just keep on coming

  • BobStPaul

    I was very relieved by this episode as I thought with it the series got its mojo back.  I really didn’t care much for the two previous episodes (a distinctly minority reaction, I realize) but last night reminded me of just why I love the series and its characters so much.  

  • Gail Lucas

    Kodak was his pitch, start to finish, I’m pretty sure. That was the slide show of pictures of his and Betty’s family.

  • http://twitter.com/angleofrepose Mariah Warnock-Graha

    What did you think of the carnival music at the party? Reminded me of city of lost children.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=581243344 Megan Wood

    I love reading the re caps.  I used to think this show was about men in a good ole’ boys world, but it is becoming increasingly about the women, even more so.  I loved the Peggy/Joan/Megan part you discussed.  Love this season.

  • Gabriella Soza

    After Sally sees Roger and Megan’s mom, she sits down and the waiter asks if she’s done with her (full) Shirley Temple, a drink that sort of epitomizes childhood, and she says yes.

    • AuntieAnonny

       Great catch.

  • http://twitter.com/AShinyOConnor A Shiny O’Connor

    ‘for all we think jesus was trying to get the loaves and fishes account’ 

  • AWStevens

    Superb review as always.  It was lovely to see Talia Balsam (John Slattery’s wife in real life) as Mona again.  You must admit, she and Roger have some hot chemistry.  You’d think being married to each other in real life would remove that onscreen chemistry.  But no.  THEY GOT IT AND IT’S GOOOOOD…

    • http://twitter.com/bigknittrouble Big Knitting Trouble

      GO TALIA BALSAM!  First Clooney, now Slattery — I heart her.  <3

      • AWStevens

         GOOD FOR YOU!  Even with IMDB, not a lot of people realize she’s the only woman Clooney ever married.  THAT tells you something.  Am I right??

  • Mefein

    It will be so interesting to see if Roger pursues his enthusiasm for LSD with the same abandon he has pursued his other mind-altering substance, alcohol.  If so, there is bound to be a point where the early insights and healthy changed perspective that comes from early use of the drug start to wane and he gets increasingly diminishing returns.  You know, the point where the insights start to jell into some countercultural nonsense.  If I squint, I can almost see a Nehru-jacketed Roger as something of a pop guru, with an answer for everything (live in the moment, man!).

    But Roger is the last one I expected to be the first to try LSD.  But when you think of it, he was the most primed, as adrift as he was, as cynical and disillusioned, but also as willing to be adventurous.  Just like a lot of young people who will be trying it.  He IS like them in a lot of ways.  I laughed at his comment about the products Corning makes:  “… and napalm!” he said, chirpily.  Only Roger or a young upstart would bring that reality into the conversation, in just that way.

  • makeityourself

    Pantyhose!

    Gene!

    Sanka!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1269440086 Elizabeth Inglehart

      Napalm!

  • Judy_J

    I haven’t read all the comments yet, but is anyone else wondering what happened to Baby Gene?  When Sally was on the phone with Glen, she made the comment that her step-gram was making her a slave, and Glen said “at least you don’t have to change Gene’s diaper” so it would appear that Gene was also at the house.  However, when they get Gram taken care of, only Bobby and Sally come to stay with Don.  Where’d Gene go?

    • Mefein

       Betty and Francis took Gene with them, probably wisely deciding not to entrust him with Grandma.

    • Rebecca Jay

      Sally tells Glen that Betty and Henry took Gene with them to wherever it was they went, so it was just her and Bobby with Bluto (her name for Henry’s mother).

    • Rebecca Jay

      Sally tells Glen that Betty and Henry took Gene with them to wherever it was they went, so it was just her and Bobby with Bluto (her name for Henry’s mother).

      • Judy_J

        Thanks.  I missed that part.  That’s probably what Glen meant when he said at least Sally didn’t have diaper duty.

      • idrisr

        Betty, Henry and Baby Gene went to Michigan according to Sally, which is interesting because a few episodes prior Henry said he wouldn’t let the pol he represents (some Rockerfeller I believe) be seen standing next to Romney who was the gov of MI at the time. Maybe he changed his mind about that, or had his mind changed for him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1533238316 Nancy Kelley

    you forgot to list this gem of a line:  “there’s are lots of us who haven’t taken LSD who already know that, Roger”

    Great recap, as always.  I thought the casting of Megan’s mother was superb.  I’m really liking Megan more and more, and don’t think of her as a sideline or temporary character anymore.  She’s more than earned a top spot in this stellar cast.  But where the heck is Betty?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

      January Jones was on maternity leave for much of the filming of this season.

  • Le_Sigh

    You know boys, you nailed it with the whole “characters blatantly stating episode themes” being rather eye-twitch-worthy.  I think its the reason why I haven’t been as invested in this season as the others before it. I used to wait to read your recaps until after I’d seen the latest ep, but now I find myself doing the opposite.  Not that I don’t enjoy seeing the show, but your recaps and style-caps really propel me to keep watching every week (as opposed to letting them build up so I can binge out on my TV). 

    And I do love them so.  :-)

  • dress_up_doll

    I cannot wait for Mad Style! Loved Sally, Megan and Megan’s mother’s banquet wear. This is minor, but before going out didn’t Don tell Sally that she had to remove either the makeup or boots? Wasn’t it an either or situation? It appeared that she got rid of both.

    • Sweetbetty

       No, he said “and”.

    • Sweetbetty

       No, he said “and”.

  • barbarasingleterry

    I keep wondering about using Mama Francis as a babysitter.  It seems Betty and Henry are gone more often than not and we have seen her behaviour in particularly inappropriate ways.  The hushed sensationalism about the Speck murders, her comments about her father’s abusive behavior and last night she seemed to be three sheets to the wind, not watching where she was walking.  No wonder Sally is calling Glen. 

    I loved the way Don just went over and got the kids and then praised Sally for her good job and adult actions.  Betty would have criticized her for causing the accident.  One question though, why didn’t Mama Francis tell Don about the phone cord, was she so out of it she couldn’t speak?  I would have thought she would be very quick to blame Sally.

    • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

       Mama Francis probably had no idea what she tripped over once she was down and Sally, being a typical human being, decided to cover up her part in the accident by blaming the baby who wasn’t even there for leaving toys around. Don thought it was Gene’s toy and not Sally’s fault.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1037780071 Craig Blyeth

        I’m almost certain Sally said that Bluto slipped and fell on one of Bobby’s toys.  I can’t imagine Gene’s toys scattered about the house for very long before being scooped up and put away.  And good for Sally, realizing Grandma Francis’ condition and capitalizing on it to her advantage.  She’s a true Draper.

        • 3hares

          It was Gene’s toys. She and Bobby must have agreed on that story–he wouldn’t take the fall (no pun intended) for the toys.

        • Sweetbetty

           No, she said Gene’s toy.  Clever of her since if she said it was Bobby’s he was there to defend himself.  Sure, Gene’s toys should have been put away but what Daddy doesn’t know won’t hurt him :-)

    • TheDivineMissAnn

      I think Gramma Bluto was a bit tipsy and did not see the cord.  She had a drink in her hand – whiskey maybe? – the liquid was amber and in a tumbler (pun intended).

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

        Yes, she was definitely drunk and definitely tripped over the phone cord. Sally and Bobby would have corroborated their stories, and baby Gene was an easy culprit because he wasn’t there, and as a baby was less likely to take the blame. Also, Sally also has a difficult relationship with Pauline, so the whole story of Sally coming to her ‘rescue’ (which may also be mostly embellished, and relied on the woman’s inebriation to not remember the details herself) was a clever way of making Pauline owe her one, so to speak. Sally cleverly turned around a situation that could have landed her in serious trouble into a situation that made her a star. Wow, kinda like her dad.

  • Andrea Rossillon

     That’s why they showed Bobby from Don’s POV, and Don saying, “That’s great, Emile,” or something like that. Total callback joke.

  • Andrea Rossillon

     That’s why they showed Bobby from Don’s POV, and Don saying, “That’s great, Emile,” or something like that. Total callback joke.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

    Who cares if Abe marries someone else!  Maybe Peggy will want to marry someone else.  Why is it what the man wants?-He won’t want to marry her.  Maybe she won’t want to marry him.  They can be together today.  Why does the success of their relationship have to be whether or not they get married?  Look at 50% of marriages.  

    Megan is explained more in this episode.  Comes from a complicated family.    Older father -younger mother.  Maybe that’s one reason she’s with Don.  Otherwise I can’t explain it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

    Who cares if Abe marries someone else!  Maybe Peggy will want to marry someone else.  Why is it what the man wants?-He won’t want to marry her.  Maybe she won’t want to marry him.  They can be together today.  Why does the success of their relationship have to be whether or not they get married?  Look at 50% of marriages.  

    Megan is explained more in this episode.  Comes from a complicated family.    Older father -younger mother.  Maybe that’s one reason she’s with Don.  Otherwise I can’t explain it.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

      Peggy’s dress looked like a maternity dress.

      • judybrowni

        That empire style was very much 1966, and not seen as maternity wear.

        I wore one very much like it to a semi-formal dance in high school: same sillouhette (velvet top) bow under bust, and crepe skirt, in dark and light blue.

        • baxterbaby

          So true!  We called the more shorter, fuller ones “baby-dresses”.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

            We called them “baby doll dresses”.  She looks like she has signed up for the role of wife and has even showed up pregnant.

          • Sweetbetty

             Are you sure it wasn’t “baby-doll dresses”?  That’s what we called them.

          • baxterbaby

            To all you other ladies-of-certain-age:  I thought that I had written “baby-doll dresses” because that is definitely what we called them.  There was a distinct difference between the empire style of a few years earlier (I remember a certain ubiquitous lace off the shoulder top, satin underbust sash and crepe straight skirt), and the really sort of childish style of the baby doll dress.  In my Long Island suburb one only saw teenagers in them, but in NYC you frequently saw them on older women (talk about infantilizing!).

            We just can’t help ourselves can we?  We start talking about the clothes before the Mad Style post!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

      Peggy’s dress looked like a maternity dress.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/J2VE4NE2FY2BP4QD2XOYKJGLPI Laura

      Megan comes from a dramatic family, which totally explains her tendency towards drama in her own relationship.

    • Sweetbetty

       It’s easy to take that attitude about Peggy and Abe in 2012 but in 1966 it was not socially accepted like it is today.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

        My comment is more directed toward the comments on this post.  Everyone seems so concerned that Abe won’t CHOOSE Peggy.  Last week she was herding him around like he was cattle.  I was really surprised that she was so happy to be CHOSEN this week, when last week, she was the man, telling him that she didn’t want to talk about it, she was busy.  She had to go to work.  So my post wasn’t really about the times, it was more about their relationship.  All of sudden, she should be concerned that she might not be CHOSEN for life, when she has as much, if not more, say in it than Abe.

        Her mother’s comments were just typical for the age.  Peggy is not typical.

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      Thank you! Lots of people have successful relationships that don’t turn into marriage. I expect this will be one of many for both of them.

      As always, they are just ahead of their time!

    • LaLeidi

       I think you make a fair point in that many posters (and characters on the show) are working from the assumption that Peggy does want to get married. It’s clear that Peggy is conflicted about getting married. Once women began to have opportunities to earn their own money, they began to question the benefits of marriage. Since marriage became optional as opposed to mandatory, women have struggled with making these choices.

      • PaulaBerman

         Except did you see how excited Peggy was at the thought of a marriage proposal, and how she saaid, “I do!” to him? She does want to get married. That’s what’s so sad, is that she thinks she has to settle for cohabitating or be alone (because she thought she was about to get dumped, not propositioned).

      • formerlyAnon

        I think Peggy *thinks* she wants to get married – the idea pings emotionally with her – but deep down she doesn’t want to be married if it fits the traditional expectations that her husband & family will take precedence over her career – that if she does work, it will be a “job” not a career.

        What *I* think she wants is marriage like a man got to have it then, and often still does today – he gets married but also gets to keep most of his energy, on most days, for his job/career.  But she doesn’t have a role model for that, and can’t quite visualize how to put that together.

    • artsykelly

      Thank you!!!!  I have been reading these comments and shocked at the amount of antiquated gender assumptions!!  

  • formerlyAnon

    Unless the NYC advertising world was a decade ahead of its time, I think the idea of Peggy and Abe cohabiting was underplayed.  Even if Mama Olsen’s expectations for her little girl were drastically lowered when she became a career girl and had a baby out of wedlock, she’s seriously rising to the occasion to react as she does. (And I think Joan ought to have been more cautious on Peggy’s behalf, as well.)

    I don’t see anything contradictory by the standards of the day when Peggy was primed to be pleased by a marriage proposal even if her devotion to her job seems occasionally more intense than her devotion to a guy. Getting married is what women were raised to do. Period. One might combine marriage with a career, but the messages attached to that were rarely encouraging. Society worked, more so than today, on the couples system – except in bohemian circles, an unattached woman was a “problem” at a dinner party. In 1966 it was still flat out scandalous in all but the most raffish circles – where intellectuals or artists or the young were consciously leaving behind the ways of the bourgeoisie – to openly live with someone even if you were engaged to be married and had set a date.  As someone else noted, a landlord could, and DID refuse to rent to an unmarried couple. 

    A nice Jewish boy might date a shiksa but (then, much more so than now) might reconsider when it came to marriage. That Abe *didn’t* propose and then fall back on living together indefinitely when the barriers to marriage seemed like too much to deal with – well, I hope I’m wrong but I think Mama Olsen is right. Not that I think it’s going to break Peggy’s heart – though she may be hurt if he never thinks enough of her to propose* – as much as be something she looks back on as huge waste of time, in the end.

    *And someone 20+ years old in 1966 – Abe as well as Peggy – would have been indoctrinated since birth to feel it that way – that if he doesn’t eventually propose, he “didn’t think enough of her” to see her as marriage material. The wave of divorce as a common occurrence which gave most of society a more cynical view of that “piece of paper” was only just beginning, and didn’t really hit until the 70′s.

    And if all of this was starting to crumble the slightest bit at the edges, the place it was most definitely not crumbling at all, yet, was in the hard-working working class and the solidly lower-middle class. The people from whom Peggy comes.

  • formerlyAnon

    Unless the NYC advertising world was a decade ahead of its time, I think the idea of Peggy and Abe cohabiting was underplayed.  Even if Mama Olsen’s expectations for her little girl were drastically lowered when she became a career girl and had a baby out of wedlock, she’s seriously rising to the occasion to react as she does. (And I think Joan ought to have been more cautious on Peggy’s behalf, as well.)

    I don’t see anything contradictory by the standards of the day when Peggy was primed to be pleased by a marriage proposal even if her devotion to her job seems occasionally more intense than her devotion to a guy. Getting married is what women were raised to do. Period. One might combine marriage with a career, but the messages attached to that were rarely encouraging. Society worked, more so than today, on the couples system – except in bohemian circles, an unattached woman was a “problem” at a dinner party. In 1966 it was still flat out scandalous in all but the most raffish circles – where intellectuals or artists or the young were consciously leaving behind the ways of the bourgeoisie – to openly live with someone even if you were engaged to be married and had set a date.  As someone else noted, a landlord could, and DID refuse to rent to an unmarried couple. 

    A nice Jewish boy might date a shiksa but (then, much more so than now) might reconsider when it came to marriage. That Abe *didn’t* propose and then fall back on living together indefinitely when the barriers to marriage seemed like too much to deal with – well, I hope I’m wrong but I think Mama Olsen is right. Not that I think it’s going to break Peggy’s heart – though she may be hurt if he never thinks enough of her to propose* – as much as be something she looks back on as huge waste of time, in the end.

    *And someone 20+ years old in 1966 – Abe as well as Peggy – would have been indoctrinated since birth to feel it that way – that if he doesn’t eventually propose, he “didn’t think enough of her” to see her as marriage material. The wave of divorce as a common occurrence which gave most of society a more cynical view of that “piece of paper” was only just beginning, and didn’t really hit until the 70′s.

    And if all of this was starting to crumble the slightest bit at the edges, the place it was most definitely not crumbling at all, yet, was in the hard-working working class and the solidly lower-middle class. The people from whom Peggy comes.

    • http://twitter.com/Fotstan Joe Johnson

      Very well put. I agree with every word. This is one of the cases where the show tells us much about our own time as it does the 60s. The writers, I don’t think, could really get their heads around what an extreme thing it was to live together before marriage. It just was not done, except in the most extreme bohemian scenes. Even if Abe is around people who do such things, working for an underground paper and all, it bends credulity that he wouldn’t at least acknowledge that what he was asking of Peggy was wildly out of the norm. I could see their conversation taking place in 1976– by then such an arrangement was in the realm of middle-class urban possibility — but not 1966, not without some kind of long, apologetic rationale for why he wasn’t proposing marriage.

      • makeityourself

        Yes to every word.

      • ldancer

        I don’t know. My mom moved in at 18 with her boyfriend in ’66 or ’67, into a raw loft on Crosby Street with a toilet in the middle of the room, she tells me. It was a huge deal to my grandparents, refugee jews from Eastern Europe. It was a shame to the family, she told me. But they dealt with it. Maybe it helped that the boy was also Jewish? Probably not, though!

        • formerlyAnon

          “Maybe it helped that the boy was also Jewish? Probably not, though!”
          Well, I didn’t know your grandparents, so I couldn’t say. But based on the experiences of my Jewish friends (most of whom were in their 20′s between the mid ’70s and early ’90s) it helped. It helped A LOT. (And most of their parents were culturally Jewish more than religiously Jewish.)

    • EEKstl

      Well said.

  • jilly_d

    I can NOT EVEN WAIT for the Mad Style post on this ep.  Peggy’s black dress with the little red cut out, Megan’s mother’s FABULOUS ball gown, Sally’s mod getup, Ginsberg’s eye-searingly competing patterns!  Oh it was a feast!

  • http://twitter.com/RozSeven Roz

    Got to love that Roger was Sally’s Mystery Date!

  • http://twitter.com/jptrostle JP Trostle

    Also, for someone who LOVES French films, Don is finding out *being* in one ain’t as much fun…

  • Squirrel270

    Yes.  That fit both the “New York is dirty” and “look what goes down on the Drapers’ white carpet” memes.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/J2VE4NE2FY2BP4QD2XOYKJGLPI Laura

    I saw Megan’s role in that pitch quite a bit differently, and the emotions behind it. I think that she was playing the perfect role. She was restoring confidence of the client in Don, not just selling them a new idea. She also knew that this particular client would NOT respond to another WOMAN with another pitch. It HAD to come from Don, or it never would have worked. She drove that pitch like a pro, played the table like an orchestra.  She didn’t sit back and just slide him the ball under the table, she was maneuvering the whole time. She was the perfect actress, and she was high off the experience as much as Don was. And afterwards, she wanted to share the moment with Peggy more than with the guys. I think she is not sure she wants to be “the star” which I think is also tied in to her ditching her acting career (although that doesn’t explain Zou Bisou except for maybe alcohol.)  She’s not 100% confident in what she’s doing, she’s not confident being open and sharing ideas with the rest of the guys, she’s not confident in being out front, she’s not confident in speaking her mind outside her comfort zone (i.e. Don and Peggy), she’s not 100% confident in breaking though the gender roles either, I don’t think. 

    As far as the whole thing being dishonest, well, advertising is dishonest and I think that’s such a given that I don’t really know that it’s a big deal, and she started the lie in the first place by changing spaghetti to beans. 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/J2VE4NE2FY2BP4QD2XOYKJGLPI Laura

      addendum: I think she’s hyper-aware of her awkward position in the office of being the bosses wife, and doesn’t want to lose respect of her co-workers. She is wary of being over-praised by her husband. She is unsure whether and how to take credit and what her position truly is in that office. 

      • 3hares

        I thought her ambivalence was definitely connected to her own feelings and not just being unsure how to take credit. The scene with Peggy was practically set up to give her a chance to be honest about her own feelings and they just weren’t as excited as Peggy. I think it was very internal, not a reaction to the office, making it more important.

    • Glammie

      Depends on who you are–it being a big deal.  I was an ad-agency brat and even though I don’t have a big principled opposition to advertising, I really hated doing it because there was an element of distorting the truth.  I never liked it and never wanted to go into the business–it felt a bit oppressive to me, but it obviously doesn’t to other people.  

      So Megan’s ambivalence makes sense to me and, I think, it gets at the whole generation gap that’s starting to happen.  Megan has a knack for selling, for distorting reality to present a prettier picture, but does she want to do that?

    • aesteve212

      I also didn’t read Megan as being non-jazzed by the pitch to Heinz. She seemed excited enough in Don’s office, and I like that she was trying to stay focused on the work. I have only seen the episode once and it sounds like TLo have rewatched many times(!) so I am sure there are nuances there I’m missing. But my general impression was that she enjoyed the pitch, she was just awkward about how to take credit/be excited because of the I’m-the-wife-of-the-boss dynamic.

      Love these recaps!

  • Susan Crawford

    My favorite person these days? Roger, of course! Still basking in the afterglow of his LSD trip, still the jaunty sophisticate, still the charmer and the well-groomed little devil that his is, was, and always will be. This was another masterful Slattery turn.

    Megan’s ad concept was based on a dream of a relationship that we haven’t really ever seen in MM: the selfless, loving nurturing mother and her child, moving through the ages, unbroken by life, enjoying the simple goodness of a meal (never mind that the meal is canned). The fluidity with which she moves in to alert Don that the client is escaping is something Megan handles like a real seasoned pro, isn’t it?

    And Don leaps in, takes the steering wheel and slips Megan’s idea out from under her just as fluidly, with Megan’s encouragement and support. What a relationship – built on shifting sands.

    Sally manages to shift some sand as well – elevating her actions so that she becomes quite the little heroine. (BTW, can’t WAIT for the clothing analysis of her award dinner dress, boots and make-up – SO cool!)

    Megan’s maman et papa are livi ng the dream of a Godard movie, all right, with a bit of Fellini thrown in – that ending musical theme was sheer Nino Rota, I thought.

    And Peggy, you got an answer – finally -  from Mom. Didja like it? In a way, I know you did.

    • Glammie

      What I loved about Roger’s storyline was the cameo by Mona.  I always love those two together.  Her weary worldliness about Roger being a charming child and his basic respect for her.  Roger was a fool to dump her–she knew better than most how to put up with him.

      Wonder if Joan will bother?  She’s his great love, but I’m not sure he’s hers.

      • Susan Crawford

        Yes! Mona really has Roger’s number, all right. And I love her response to him: a bit world-weary and jaded, a little cynical, a little tolerant – as though Roger is the unruly child she has finally agreed not to try to tame. Now she can get a bit of wry laughter out of his pronouncements. Such good writing – such great actors! As  for Joan, I have a feeling she will always be there in many ways for Roger, but she, too, has moved on.

        And for her as a single mom in those days will not be an easy path. So as Joan gives Peggy a hug and well wishes on moving in with Abe, she does so as a sign of the times that are a changing. And she deserves a hug, too, though she may not even realize what she is doing as a working, single mother. In her way, she is a trailblazer, though she might not want any special recognition for it.

        But it would be a neat turnaround if after all they’ve been through, she and Roger drifted back together.

  • Squirrel270

    Does Abe know about Peggy’s baby?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/J2VE4NE2FY2BP4QD2XOYKJGLPI Laura

      I sincerely doubt it

  • http://twitter.com/Fotstan Joe Johnson

    The Heinz couple are not the founders of Heinz, a massive company. He is just their guy in charge of ad business.
    (This was in reply to a post way below… argh.)

    • Melissa Brogan

       He’s actually just in charge of the Heinz beans ad business. Back in season 4(?) he explicitly said the ketchup side of the business was sticking with their agency and that SCDP shouldn’t be hoping to net them with the beans business.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZXOGTLATZDJVGUY7WOQBL74XDI Daliah

    My favorite episode so far!  LOVED Katherine Olson’s greeting to Abe:  ”Hello, ABRAHAM…” and her response “Really?” to Abe’s comment that he loved ham.  Both delivered with perfect timing.  Also, both a continuation of the conversation she and Peggy have obviously already had about his being a Jew.  Wonderful writing, wonderful acting!

  • DEE RUSH

    The idea of Megan being good at advertising without any hint in previous episodes is a little too contrived for me.  What saves this storyline is the idea that Megan realizes that she doesn’t really like advertising.

  • greenwich_matron

    I think Megan had a real Peggy Lee moment at the end of the show. She is very receptive, open, and optimistic, so she is game for anything. She saw a bit of the advertising business, thought she would like it, so she gave it a try. She met Don, liked him, and gave him a try. He asked her to marry him, so she thought “Sure!”  

    Then she got a real taste of the epitome of her chosen field, felt the joy of those around her, had Peggy explicitly tell “this is as good as it gets” and she was left thinking “Is that all there is?”

    • Maggie_Mae

      Which prompted me to check: “Is That All There Is” was a Leiber/Stoller song–a hit for Peggy Lee in 1968.

      The song was inspired by the 1896 story Disillusionment (Enttäuschung) by Thomas Mann. The narrator in Mann’s story tells the same stories of when he was a child. A dramatic adaptation of Mann’s story was recorded by Erik Bauserfeld and Bernard Mayes; it was broadcast on San Francisco radio station KPFA in 1964.

      (All from Wikipedia–link not included since spam-detection here puts message with links in detention for a while.)

  • nycfan

    This season has been truly spectacular and last night was no exception.  I was scratching my head about the many “sexual content” warnings, to have it all end up Roger & Megan’s mom (was that Julia Ormand?) from a distance, I guess the fact that Sally saw it was the reason, but the stupid warnings had me worried about something MUCH worse happening to Sally herself and so that was unnecessary and frankly distracting (not the show-writers fault at all).

    Seeing all the emotions play around the corners of Peggy’s eyes when she shows up in her new pink bow dress to be asked to live with, not marry, Abe was amazing work.  It seemed her heart broke and was replaced by a sort of backbone about how she was going to flaunt tradition, sitting there in her traditional dress waiting for a ring that will probably never come.

    The jealousy between Megan and her mother was really well handled, just great writing, IMO.

    Can’t wait for the Mad Style post on Wednesday.  That shopping outfit Megan had on? Really? OMG, loved it, and the way she and her mother mirror each other’s style and how stoked Sally was to be part of that … great stuff.

    • EEKstl

      Yes, it was Julia Ormand, great casting.

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      Since I watch on amazon, I don’t get the warnings. Interesting. Glen was in his underwear while they talked on the phone. Maybe that was part of it.

    • malarkey

      agreed. ultimately, Peggy’s own old-fashioned notions caught up with her. He didn’t propose marriage?!? Ok, now it’s time to let go of that little fantasy…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZXOGTLATZDJVGUY7WOQBL74XDI Daliah

    Emile did clarify during that conversation, that he (and Marx, apparently) thought “it” (her sudden wealth) was bad for her  because she did not work for it, but acquired it simply by her attachment to Don… “it’s bad for your soul”, he said.  That made me have a lot more sympathy for his position, and made him much less of a caricature…

    • judybrowni

      I disagree: Emile was a shit. 

      Instead of praising his daughter (who had, indeed, done the work with her successful Heinz pitch) Poppa was wallowing in his own failure, belittled his own daughter to make himself feel above her a notch in his “purity.”

      • PaulaBerman

         But she did not do the work to obtain that posh apartment, which is what he was referring to. She married that apartment, and money that comes that way can go away that way too.

      • Glammie

        Yep, I think Emile’s a self-centered underminer.  He wanted his daughter to feel like crap about her marriage and her job.  

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      His contempt for his own wife tells me that she married into wealth as well.

      • http://howtofaint.tumblr.com/ How to Faint

        Or maybe he did.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Alan-McKnight/46107771 Joshua Alan McKnight

    I haven’t read any of your previous reviews, but certainly you caught on to how sexist the Heinz client was.  With that in mind I didn’t find the dinner scene at all cynical nor based on “lies” any more than a typical night out.  Megan is very shrewd in many ways, not least socially, and as Don said later in the cab, she handled the delivery perfectly.  She understood that it HAD to come from Don (and she knows he’s almost a perfect pitch-man anyway), and passed the ball to him.  She orchestrates the entire scene perfectly, combining the kind of creative talent of Don and the social skills of Roger or Pete into one very formidable woman.

  • http://www.lippsisters.com/ Deborah Lipp

    The remark about marrying “the Jew” indicates to me that Katherine wouldn’t have been happy with either direction. But the thing is, she didn’t tell Peggy, ‘Hold out, someone will marry you. You’re worth it.’ She didn’t tell Peggy, ‘Tell THIS GUY that you’re holding out, and he’ll marry you.’ She said, ‘Get a cat, bitch.’ Maybe if Katherine had ever encouraged her she wouldn’t be settling for something that only makes her mildly happy compared to watch she really wanted. Here’s mine: http://www.lippsisters.com/2012/04/30/recap-at-the-codfish-ball/

  • kj8008

    Season Five is very much becoming the season of the women.

    Peggy’s continued struggles on growing up in the workplace and her personal life.  As my wife told me, how she’s learning how to be a woman (from the most feminine of working women, Joan). Thought her “congratulatory” comments to Megan were a “Peggy Downer”.

    And of Megan…I’m very much digging how Megan, not in just only just fighting Don’s boorishness from the last episode, but becoming the prototype for young modern New York woman: independent, stylish, sexually provocative and career-minded. Her recovery during the dinner (still playing the stereotype of the good little homemaker for the fartsy Heniz client) was priceless.

    Betty, although a good companion on those dinner deals, would probably not have thought on her feet as Megan did.  Don was ‘kind’ enough to include her in the creative process of the ad. He was super turned on from her old pro style performance, when she’s just a rookie. Very nice job by the MM writers to making her bloom more and more each episode.

    Sally did get an education last night.  Incidentally, Glen Bishop, would be Facebook stalking her if it were around back then. Yet, she would probably like it. When the sex on tv warning went up before the episode started, I was afraid something inappropriate would happen on the phone between two pre-teens.  Thankfully, it was just two 50+ year-olds acting like pre-teens. I’m in my 40′s and I’m not sure if I like that image in my head either.

    Mona making a great cameo – and Roger admitting he messed up a good thing.  Mona compliments Roger very well, just as Joan does in not putting up with his bullshit. Nice to see her, now that Jane is going away (or is she?)

    And Joan, becoming the ninja-like working mom, that only Peggy is entrusted to know the truth. Still the sage, not losing a step in her femininity.

    Dawn, Grandma Francis, Peggy’s mom, Megan’s mom (Julia Ormond – great casting as the original cougar!), everyone is on deck this season.

    The office, and their personal lives, are blooming. Such was the dawning of the age of Aquarius.

    • EEKstl

      I loved the scene with Mona and Roger, which reminds me of Mona’s great line in a night filled with great lines: “I used to think you left me because I got old.  Then I realized it was because you did.”  Brilliant.

  • Kenneth Warthen

    Two things that struck me about Sally, one of which I haven’t seen mentioned yet. First, about that fish… yes, at terribly high-end banquet you might get a whole fish on your plate. (At a white tablecloth restaurant, particularly in NYC, your empty plate would sit in front of you and your food would arrive on platters and serving trays, either to help yourself from the platter or be served from the tray. “Plated” dinners in high-end restaurants came in with nouvelle cuisine and caught on.) I remember getting whole fish at the table as late as the mid-1970′s, and if pushed I can still de-bone a fish at table. The head and spine go back on the platter, to be whisked away. A good waiter would have asked Sally if she wanted him to do the task, but he didn’t.

    The other item was Sally’s disappointment (one among many!) that what the adults were calling a ballroom didn’t have a staircase down which she could descend. Even without the Disney influence, every kid knew that ballrooms had to have a grand and glorious staircase that would down and around, possibly hundreds of steps, to glide down and cause a stir from the crowd breathlessly awaiting your descent. Real life, Sally. It sucks sometimes.

    To this day I walk into a hotel “ballroom” for a meeting and think, “Pfffft, no staircase. What a dump.”

    • ZnSD

      When Sally was asking about the staircase my first thought was My Fair Lady had come out only a couple years before, it would have been the glamorous movie to see in the city with dad’s new wife.

      • makeityourself

        And I thought about the “Cinderella” movie that came out in the mid 1960s starring Lesley Ann Warren.  It was only shown once a year and (pre VSH days) I would write it down on the calendar when the promos started running.  She glided down the most magnificent staircase when she arrived at the ball.

        “Ten minutes ago I met you, and we murmured our ‘how-do-you-do’s . . .’”

        • ZnSD

           oh wow I didn’t even know that movie existed. LAW will forever be Norma Cassady for me from Victor/Victoria.

    • charlotte

       Remember the storyline way back when Don and Betty went out on Valentine’s and met that hooker friend of hers?
      Betty made a glorious entrance descending from the staircase, I believe it was even in slow motion.
      And now Sally, the girl who despises her mother, is looking for such a staircase. Ironic much?

  • Sorcha333

    Yeah, when I moved in with my first serious boyfriend in 1975, my stepmother had to break it to my dad to alleviate the blowback.  However, he forever referred to it as “the shack job.”  Subtle.

    • Munchkn

       When my husband found out that one of our daughter was living with her fiancee,  he was totally silent.  He just clammed up with disapproval.  Everyone else knew, of course, and they didn’t care.

  • DEE RUSH

    I think Megan is in danger of becoming too idealized for my tastes.  I noticed that many on the TELEVISION WITHOUT PITY board are complaining of the same thing.

    • Maggie_Mae

      Hey, those folks live to complain!

      Megan had a good idea & helped Don present it skillfully.  She’s apparently fairly balanced, even though her family life was hardly ideal.  (Which gives me hope that Sally won’t become the basket case so many are predicting.)  But she’s not perfect; it’s just that everybody did pretty well last night.  Until the last few minutes, when everything fell apart…

      • DEE RUSH

        How is she not perfect?

      • Glammie

        So true.  I think a lot of the negative reaction to Megan is that she was a minor character who suddenly bagged Don. Viewers kind of see her the way her coworkers do–as undeserving of her luck.

        But, on the other hand, what other sort of woman would Don marry?  

    • luciaphile

      I feel like she’s being pushed on the viewers the way my mom used to try and push Product 19 on us. It’s GOOD FOR YOU. YOU’LL LIKE IT. This is not how you introduce a new character. They should have done better at integrating her to the show in Season 4.

      • Glammie

        But, then you wouldn’t have had the shock of Don’s sudden marriage to a secretary after his mostly hands-off attitude to the secretarial pool.  This tells us about Don and his impulsiveness.  He married someone he doesn’t know–and we don’t know–he took a chance.  By not knowing Megan, there’s a tension, a dramatic question mark about the new marriage.

        Don has made a career of succeeding on instinct, but he blew up his first marriage for similar reasons.  So what happens this time?

  • cherrynyc

    I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE STYLE POST. 

    As soon as I saw Peggy’s dress at Minetta Tavern for Abe’s faux-proposal, I said, ‘Lord this poor child has tried to dress herself up like Joan.” The cut of the dress, the color…excluding the rather modern empire waist/bow feature, that dress was classic Joan about 2-3 years back. She was totally trying to channel her, whether is was a conscious move (by the character) or not. 

    I am anxious to see if T&L think I’m on to something :) 

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      And in Joan’s size too, apparently.

    • Sweetbetty

       Does anyone have a link to a pic of that dress?  For some reason I’m not remembering it at all, only that it was very girly.

    • aesteve212

       it was INSANE!! And it came after the scene with the cutest dress I’ve ever seen her in (the greyish with the hot pink side darts on the skirt). Poor Peggie – that cupcake dress is what she buys SPECIAL for the dinner. oy.

      • Verascity

         I’m not sure she bought that cupcake dress new — my thinking was that it was probably one of the older ones in her closet from when she was still wearing hand-me-downs. To appeal to her traditional mother, of course.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1037780071 Craig Blyeth

     Every time Megan helps Don with an idea I can’t help thinking of Samantha helping Darrin in a similar way in a Bewitched episode.  That’s probably not a compliment to Weiner & Co.

    • Sweetbetty

       That hadn’t occurred to me but now that you mention it….
      If she starts twitching her nose I’m done with MM.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1037780071 Craig Blyeth

     Nice catch.  I’m sure Megan was asking that question about everything in her life by the end of the episode.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1037780071 Craig Blyeth

     The comment suggests that Emile is a Socialist, not a Communist, since he acknowledged the possibility of having a soul.

  • ThaliaMenninger

    I still think Betty represents the perfect woman of the 50s, the Hitchcock Blonde, while Megan moves forward into more of the 60s perfect woman who is smarter but a little sillier, definitely more approachable, can do a musical number, and still be adorable, like Mary Tyler Moore’s Laura Petrie. Will Megan move into 70s MTM, too, as an independent woman who has a job and does for herself? I’ve always thought that Peggy was following a Helen Gurley Brown trajectory, but maybe it’s Megan who will do the harder-edged, sexy woman of business thing and create the Cosmo Girl.

    • formerlyAnon

       I don’t think Peggy has ever ‘caught on’ quickly enough to follow the HGB model, and she’s too upfront about wanting success, in the style a man has it.

    • formerlyAnon

       I don’t think Peggy has ever ‘caught on’ quickly enough to follow the HGB model, and she’s too upfront about wanting success, in the style a man has it.

    • Glammie

      But remember Helen Gurley Brown described herself as a “mouse burger”–she was sleeping around, but she wasn’t glamorous or particularly stylish. 

      Megan and Betty both fit the fantasy women–Betty’s like Grace Kelly and Megan’s like Anouk Aimee–at least when we see them through Don’s gaze.  Part of what MM tries to do, though, is look beneath the surface.  

      Peggy’s never a dream girl–she’s a little frumpy and clueless for that. She’s a dream-maker, not the embodiment of a dream.  Probably part of the reason Don’s never been sexually attracted to her.  Don doesn’t deal well with reality–he’s drawn to the fantasy.

  • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

    Aaaaaaand… Roger Sterling hasn’t changed after all.

    Great episode.

  • bluefish

    Excellent comments, TLo!  Poor Sally Draper can never have any rite of passage moment that is not dashed on the rocky shores.   And how great to see the return of Peggy’s mama — great little speech she gave too — and of the gorgeous and funny Mona.  Talia Balsam looked absolutely gorgeous in that scene.  Also, I want all of sexy Mama Calvet’s wardrobe selections–what amazing clothes and hats.

    • formerlyAnon

      “Poor Sally Draper can never have any rite of passage moment that is not dashed on the rocky shores.”

      So true, so sad, so well put!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM yahoo-ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM

    You’re right, but I suppose it’s possible that they moved to Canada from France.

    • http://annequichante.wordpress.com/ Anne

       Plus when Megan was talking about her skin care regime she said her mom was French, not Canadian.  Megan herself is Canadian, but I think her parents are French.

  • Aurumgirl

    There is a segment of Quebecois society that does sound more Parisian.  Not everyone speaks the Quebec patois.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM yahoo-ZR46MVUOR6Z7HRQMD32KW3MWRM

     Don’t confuse correlation with causation.  Just because more people who live together before marriage gets divorced, it doesn’t mean that living together before marriage contributes to the divorce occurring.  More likely, it’s that for a bunch of those couples, one person didn’t really want to get married, and the other did.  So they lived together as a compromise or a stopgap.  

    One of two things happened in those couples: the one who didn’t want to get married refused, so they broke up; or the one who didn’t want to get married gave in.  So that leaves a chunk of people who are married and didn’t really want to be, but kind of felt like they had to in order to keep the other people happy.  Also, it’s harder to break up once you’re already living together, so some people will just agree to get married because they’re scared of losing their home, their security, etc.

    And also, those studies don’t take account of couples who just keep happily living together for the rest of their lives.  It only covers the people who lived together and then got married, which is only a subset of the total number of people who live together.

  • Fordzo

    How do you think Kiernan was prepared for that scene at the end?  I’m sure it was a split scene and she probably didn’t see the two actors simulating oral sex, but what do you think they explained to her to help her act the part of a young girl who DID witness a blow job for the first time?

    I guess Kiernan could be wise to all of that, but I was thinking of my 12 year old sister, who would probably fall down dead if someone suggested to her that sometimes people put their mouths on other people’s genitals.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CNDPMVO4W23R5TVC2QMTJ5BZE Heather

      I remember learning about this act when I was about 12 or 13 (7th grade), and being VERY confused and disgusted because I thought the guy peed in your mouth! Kids today seem to be a bit more savvy, esp post-Clinton/Lewinsky.

      • http://deeplyproblematic.blogspot.com/ RMJ12345

        I was 12/13 around the time of Clinton/Lewinsky. I had heard about the terms and the mechanics, but I didn’t understand at all. Kids aren’t really all that different post Lewinsky, I don’t think. In every generation, people project a concern for their innocence and their maturity level onto them that is just confusing and bewildering and abjectly intriguing at the outset of puberty.

    • cleep1000

      Kiernan is wise beyond her years. When I was a kid in the ’70s, we knew about blow-jobs by about the sixth grade. I was sure my parents had never heard of it! LOL. Interesting question, though. What exactly was she told? I’m betting something very close to, if not the actual, truth.

    • judybrowni

      From what I’ve read, not only are the scenes shot separately, and Kiernan isn’t informed about the details of what she’s seeming that’s supposedly “shocking”  – and her parents don’t allow her to see the finished episode.

      • Glammie

        I can’t blame them.  My daughter’s close to Shipka’s age–and MM is massively inappropriate for a pre-teen.  My kid and her classmates know the basics of sex, but not much about the variations.  I know one poor girl did an innocent search on Google and came up with something graphic and got very upset.  In other words, they know it’s out there, but they don’t want to know about it yet.  

        In a couple of years, of course, it all changes . . . 

      • sarahjane1912

        But hey … if I was Kiernan, as a curious and intelligent young woman, you can bet I’d be googling reviews/dicussion of the episode later. Or reading TLo. *Waves* Hi, Kiernan!

    • Sweetbetty

       I was wondering the same thing.  I’m sure Kiernan never saw what we saw during the taping but I assume she watches her series on TV just like we do.  Or maybe her parents knew better than to allow her to see this one.  But like you suggest, as a seasoned actress she probably knows a lot more than the typical kid that age knows.  I can remember when I was in 10th or 11th grade and our health class teacher told us about some people using their mouth in sexual activities.  A great “eeeewwww” rose from most of the girls, including me, but I can still see a few of them just sitting and smiling.

      • asympt

         As judybrowni says, Weiner has explained that Kiernan only shoots her own part in scenes with more adult content; and Kiernan has said in interviews that she doesn’t get to watch the whole show at home, her parents prescreen it.

        I’m sure that in her sides, and in her direction, she just was told that Sally was seeing Roger and her step-grandmother doing something inappropriate–with no details.  A kid can know it’s an ewwwww without getting a graphic description of why.

        • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

           When Abigail Breslin did “Little Miss Sunshine”, they kept her in earphones with really loud music so she wouldn’t hear the dialogue if she was required to be in the scene. Alan Arkin said that in an interview – he didn’t want her to hear his character’s language. But, who remembers Brooke Shields in “Pretty Baby” being carried into a dinner naked on a platter, adorned with fruit and put out to the highest bidder? Or Jodi Foster in “Taxi Driver”. The 70′s were a different time than today. Those girls turned out okay, it seems!

  • baxterbaby

    Exactly.  In the early 70′s my working class parents had to deal with a son and a daughter who lived with their significant others and they were NOT HAPPY, even though I was engaged and my brother did marry eventually marry his girl.  All they knew was that if you professed to be in love and wanted to “have a future together”, you got married.  And their views were not based on the concept of sin (very casual Catholics), but worry about what our futures might hold.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Julie-Chase/731391326 Julie Chase

    Brilliant episode. And I completely felt for Peggy, my fiance and I are both Catholic and when I moved in with him a year ago I had a near heart attack breaking it to my mother (who was fine) and we still have to pretend I live elsewhere to my grandparents and his aunt. Viva la sinful living Peggy!

    Does Julia Ormond eat babies? How entrancing was she in that final gown? What excellent casting.

  • Mari Iwamoto

    I didn’t get the sense that Meghan was unhappy because she didn’t love her job… Quite the opposite, she loves her job, but because she married a senior partner to get the job, she knows that no one in the office thinks that she has any real talent. When she muttered that the Heinz pitch was a beginner’s luck to Stan, he didn’t disagree.  And it’s not because he’s a misogynist, since he has a lot of respect for Peggy.  She probably can’t feel happy about a successful pitch like Don or Peggy, because she probably feels that she’s taken the shortcut to get the copywriter position, and everyone else in the office thinks so. Verbally they may congratulate her, but she knows deep down that no one in the office thinks she truly deserves it… and that’s why I thought she downplayed her success.

    • PaulaBerman

       I thought her discomfort with her success came directly from her father’s criticisms and negativity about it. She couldn’t revel in her victory as her father was basically accusing her of being a bourgeois capitalist pig.

      • Logo Girl

        Yup. And I can say from first-hand experience that anti-capitalist intellectual parents would 1000x rather their children follow a silly career in acting or writing than a serious career in advertising. 

        • theotherTLO

          I agree too.  Does anyone watch on iTunes?  If you do you get a little “inside Mad Men” five minute commentary every time you download the new ep with a season pass.  On this week’s commentary, Weiner said Megan’s reaction to her success with the Heinz pitch was like when you think you should be excited about something but you just can’t make yourself feel it, and you realize it didn’t give you the satisfaction you thought it would (I can’t remember the phrase he used for this, but it was a perfect description).  I took Megan’s reaction to everyone’s excitement over Heinz and then her reaction to her Dad as this: she was already feeling let down that she wasn’t feeling as excited as she thought she should have over Heinz (especially when Peggy told her that this is the good part of the job), and then her Dad articulated her feelings as her giving up her real dreams to try to succeed in a soul-less business where she’s good but not passionate.

    • asympt

       Well, he is a misogynist–you’ll remember Peggy had to slap him down pretty hard, calling an ugly misogynist bluff, to get his respect.  But he does respect Peggy now and he’s been learning.

      Even Peggy had to take a breath and decide it was okay that Megan had done a good job from her privileged position.

      Ginsberg was just pissed that not only did Megan have the catbird seat but her idea was better than his anyway.

  • DEE RUSH

    The last time I saw Ronald Guttman was in the “MILDRED PIERCE” miniseries.  He’s still great.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RHLSUVX3NCPB4OSS5BM7GZIXUE P. Capet

    it was great to watch an episode that was so much fun, after all the sturm und drang this season.  really entertaining.  of course, entertaining while being honest and true and sad, the way only MM can do it.  i’ll have to remember the one about the three cats.

    i cannot wait until your style recap.  just cannot wait.  there was so much to see!  gosh, i loved this episode.

  • frances rossi

    Can I pretty pretty please be Roger Sterling’s dinner date!?!?! If not (le sigh) then more of Sally and him please! Sally seeing Grandma and her date broke my heart. The poor dear.

    • asympt

       I doubt Sally will be so easily charmed by Roger ever again.

      (And LSD hasn’t particularly evolved him.  Screwing with your best friend’s mother-in-law is–not very considerate!)

  • http://twitter.com/milkglassheart Lara

    Megan IS so much like her parents though. It’s like the violent chase between her and Don last week never happened. They’re happier than ever together as she explains to Don how her parents always fight like this but get past it. Yeah, she’s in the exact situation her parents are in… at least what the beginnings of her parents’ marriage was like. 

  • claudemtl777

    Very entertaining show and great recap…One minor quibble though: While Jessica Pare and the actor who played her father (Guttmann, i think, a belgian) have flawless french, Julia Ormond’s french accent left a lot to be desired.Im glad to see Don and Megan getting along so well. It reinforces my belief that the scene where he was running after her (at the end of the previous episode) was not really violent, for really, it was due to his fear of losing her.

    • asympt

       Of course it was about his fear of losing her.  It was also violent.

      • claudemtl777

        Point taken…I meant that scaring or intimidating  her was not his intent , even though she wound up being scared…

    • http://deeplyproblematic.blogspot.com/ RMJ12345

      Perhaps that was a character choice that has something to do with Mrs. Calvert’s backstory? Like maybe she had to learn French to be with Dr. Calvert (like Megan has to learn advertising to be with Don). I’m thinking that given the high-profile casting and the intrigue of this episode that Mrs. Calvert may be back.

      • claudemtl777

        But then she wouldnt have a french accent when she speaks english.

    • LesYeuxHiboux

       Murder is a crime of passion. Just because he loves her and doesn’t want to lose her, doesn’t mean he can’t hurt or be violent toward her.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=745417774 Katherine Brant

    Does anyone else see the acting thing with Megan converging with Don escaping to California?

  • Amy Ellinger

    Peggy’s dress at the “proposal” dinner screamed MATERNITY! to me. I think it was the placement of the bow, or the way they shot her from the waist up, but I’m hoping they don’t make her and Abe a shotgun-style wedding. I want a happy couple dangit!  (other than Sally and Roger, before the reveal)

    • judybrowni

      Sorry, but that empire style with the bow under the breast was very much the fashion in 1966 for young women.

      Wore a the same (but sleeveless) sillouhette with the bow under the breast, in shades of blue for a semi-formal dance in ’66.

      My not-pregnant cousin was married in a white empire style wedding dress in 1970, with a pink bow and ribbon on the breast (and only the touch of pink on a bridal dress was considered slightly risque.)

      Maternity wear of the period wasn’t empire, but the tent, with a big pussy bow over the breasts.

      • judybrowni

        oops meant to write that my cousin’s wedding dress had a pink bow and ribbon under the breast.

      • Sweetbetty

         I had quite a few empire waist dresses that I was also able to wear pretty far into my pregnancy in 1966.  When they first came into style there was a joke going around that you couldn’t tell if a girl was in style or in trouble, “in trouble” being a euphemism for being pregnant out of wedlock.

        • malarkey

          gawd, yes. And you brought back a memory for me of a friend that said something that made me cringe. She told me she wanted boys for children because girls “got into trouble” ~ LOL, because you know, the boys who participated in that we not responsible, were they?

          • Sweetbetty

             But I also remember conversations about boys who “got a girl in trouble”, like she didn’t have anything to do with it.  I guess it all depended on the point of view of the person talking about it.   (Also, back then it was usually assumed that the guy pressured the girl to have sex, that she didn’t really want to but gave in to keep her guy, so it was really the guy’s fault that they had sex at all.  God forbid that a single girl actually wanted and enjoyed sex, unless, of course, she was a “tramp” (insert sarcasm here).

      • Amy Ellinger

        oh no, I wasn’t meaning it in that way. I even have some of my mom’s dresses just like that from when she was a teenager! It was more the way they shot her in the scene, combined with only seeing a small part of the silhouette. For some reason, it just struck me as a glimpse of what Pegs could be facing if Abe proposed marriage- stylish little mother to be. And the dress very much did not suit her, which I don’t think marriage and being the “little woman” would either.

        Sorry for not being clearer! and your cousins wedding dress sounds really pretty :-)

    • aesteve212

       I was so nervous that the baby/adoption would come up  when Peggy and Abe told her mom at dinner! I don’t know in what context, I just felt like her mom was being backing into a corner with an unpleasant truth and might lash out to hurt Peggy and drive Abe away. I couldn’t breathe until she left!

      • Amy Ellinger

        my hubby and I both went “awwww, craappp” when her mom was at the door.  Momma finally said what she thought, though, so credit to her for that!  But yeah, you could have cut that tension with a chainsaw!

  • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

    Anyone surprised to see Glen Bishop at boarding school?? Not me, except for the financial aspect of it.

    • asympt

       Didn’t his mom remarry?  If she did, and the stepfather had enough money to send the kid away (and especially if he was ever caught at any of his acting out), it’s very plausible.

      • Sweetbetty

         I don’t recall any mention of Glenn’s mom remarrying.  He mentioned his dad in his conversation with Sally so I got the impression that his mom handed him over to his dad, who’s solution to dealing with Glenn was to send him to boarding school and summer camp.

        • 3hares

          I’m almost positive he did mention his mom being remarried. I believe they may also have another child.

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        I mean, yeah, it was only a matter of time before they shipped him off (no, I don’t blame them), but they seemed to skipped a little bit of info. No matter. It’s nice to see the little nutbag again.

  • PaulaBerman

     Did you notice her “Oh really?” after Abe said ham was his favorite? I thought that was a verrrry subtle allusion to Mrs. Olsen’s extreme awareness that Abe was a Jew. I think his Jewishness informed her problem with the the whole thing, to wit, Abe IS going to marry, and marry a Jew, Peggy. You are his shiksa practice run. And I have to say, I didn’t think Mrs. Olsen was way off, either. Peggy’s response, “Do you want me to be alone?” pointed to the fact that Peggy is not moving in with Abe out of massive love or desire to cohabitate, either. It’s what she thinks she has to do to keep Abe, and not be alone forever. In that case, “get a cat” is not terrible advice. Hell, it’s what I did until I married at 36. Better to be alone with a cat than settle.

    • http://deeplyproblematic.blogspot.com/ RMJ12345

      Also the emphatic way she pronounced “Abraham.”

    • Glammie

      On the other hand, if Abe loves ham he’s a pretty secular Jew and might not have a huge issue with marrying a non-Jew–if he believes in marriage.  So far, he’s not been a bad guy if a bit feckless.

      • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

         Harry on SATC ate pork, but wouldn’t marry Charlotte because he promised his Mom he’d marry someone Jewish. Cultural attachments are strong, sometimes stronger than religious ones. We simply don’t know enough about Abe to know his religious convictions – hambone or no.

  • beebee10

    Well I know there are 353 comments and I haven’t read them all but oh well….

    This episode was a little off for me. Mostly my reservations have to do with introducing Meghan’s parents. Previously it seemed like she was close to her mother with frequent phone calls to her mom and lots of checking in.  And with this episode she’s suddenly daddy’s little girl with her mom as her rival. Also I found the scene of the mom “going down” in a room next to the big party to be unrealistic. A woman would have to be pretty tacky and incredibly indiscrete to do something like that. Setting up a rendez-vous the next day at Roger’s hotel residence is more like it. It didn’t seem realistic. 

    But the Peggy and Joan interaction were outstanding as was Peggy’s interaction with her mother. I’m afraid her mother is correct and I’m sad Peggy has so little confidence to know her mom is right and still do it. 

    • http://twitter.com/ZoeyCharles7 Zoey

      Two words. Open bar.  I’ve known people who thought they were invisible behind a bar while performing that same act.

      I think we found out that Megan is not maternal like Don thought. Or close to her mother (like Don also thinks).  She’s co-dependant. She’s checking in on her mother because she’s an alcoholic. She’s caring for others, because she’s always had to care for her parents in some manner.  By smoothing Emile’s ego or making sure her mother didn’t burn down the house. Or probably cheat on him with the gardener.

  • gokobuta

     Betty did this on more than one occasion, spinning things to make her look better than she was: the Coke modelling gig that she “turned down”, taking the credit for figuring out her old roommate was a call girl, etc.

    Although this is probably just little-kid-keeping-out-of-trouble ingenuity. Still, apparently it runs in the family.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5UQHEKG5EDX4T6NMARUC565TPQ Amy

    I kept trying to figure out why Megan so willingly gave Don the pitch to claim as his own at dinner and I think one factor may stem from her parents fight. Emile yells “why can’t you ever be happy for me? ” at her mother and I wonder if Megan got it in her head that to keep the peace in her own marriage she has to prop up Don, let him take the applause while she demurely stands by. That said, I think she is going to become even more dominant as the season unfolds. It’s only natural with the energy of Peggy and Joan surrounding her at the office!

    • UsedtobeEP

      This came up earlier—it seems it was because of the client. The Heinz beans guy was a big chauvinist and already had put Peggy in her place, I think, partly because she’s a woman. Megan gave the pitch to Don because the client would more readily accept it from a man. Don had no trouble giving her credit for it back at the office. 

    • malarkey

      I think that Megan is unsure about how much of this success she should own, and be happy about. I think she gave it to Don to handoff as she was unsure if Mr Heinz would buy it coming from her. It comes from her insecurity. I also don’t really see the “she’s disillusioned with the advertising world” but more of a “how much should I own this” or, really, just being on uncertain ground. Where does she stand? Should she own her work? Should she give it away? I think she had misgivings about both and a lot of indecision.

      OMG, what about that fabulous conversation between Don & Roger early in the ep? It was such a witty exchange. “For all we know, Jesus was trying to get the loaves & fishes account” LOL 

      ~ “all your life, you think people are staring at you and you find out they aren’t” ~ “Lots of people who have never taken LSD know that Roger”

      And the dinner scene with Peggy, her mom & Abe: “Peggy made a ham, it’s my favorite” … “Really?!?” 

      LOL, I love the actress who plays Peggy’s mom. She nails it.

      • 3hares

        I can’t see how the ep set Megan up to be wondering that in this ep. At the end everyone knew exactly what she did, and everyone was giving her credit for it. There was no question of how much of it she should own. There was no scene where people were asking her to tell them exactly how she came up with the brilliant idea. They were just celebrating and inviting her to celebrate with them as the woman of the hour. Of course I can see a little awkwardness in that since she’s not so conceited she’s not going to be humble about it, but the scene with Peggy seemed totally set up to show that Megan was struggling with her own feelings and not Megan being unsure how to perform in front of others. That talk with Peggy completely laid it out with Peggy describing how she felt in the exact same position and offering Megan the chance to at least privately bond over the satisfaction of having the pitch work. But when she said this was as good as the job got, it seemed like Megan just couldn’t share the enthusiasm.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OSYAJATXUH3QX7ZDDF52GXG4PU Janie R

        I think it’s possible that Megan is starting to realise the ad stuff comes easier for her than the others, and she doesn’t want to look smarter than Don. She doesn’t value the work because of that and because of her upbringing. She just isn’t going to be fulfilled in this business. Peggy said “it’s as good as it gets” I think Megan’s thinking “that’s ridiculous”. 

  • PaulaBerman

     What did people think of the fact that Sally and Glen are still in full force, and she apparently calls him often at, where? Boarding school? He’s not old enough to be in college yet. Is this a good relationship for her or what? They apparently talk about dating other people, as Glen was seemingly depressed about getting dumped.

    • asympt

       They don’t have a romantic relationship, but almost a closer one, as mutual confidants.

      Glen is something like Sally’s Anna Draper.

      • Susan Crawford

        I have to say this Glen character has creeped me out since his first appearabce. And the last conversation where he’s on the phone with Sally, clad only in a windbreaker – ewwww. Kinda skeeved me out. Icky!

        • PaulaBerman

          There is something really awkward about him. He always seems vaguely creepy to me too. It just fascinates me that they have managed to stay in touch despite several moves each. That’s a friendship that has persevered through some pretty challenging obstacles, considering their age and lack of access to communication. Nowadays they would have email, texts, Facebook, IM, and cellphones– then, if one of them lost the other’s number, that was it. There is a deep connection there, and Weiner is bringing it back up for a reason, I think. What reason, I don’t know, but it’s sure to be interesting.

          • Susan Crawford

            I think he’s in the story for a reason – the writers of MM ALWAYS have their reasons! – and I’m betting it will be another “learning experience” for Sally. That poor girl is headed toward a road full of speed-bumps, potholes and flash flood zones, isn’t she? Creeptastic BFF’s, dysfunctional parents, toppling grannies and . . . Roger. Lord help the child, folks!

          • formerlyAnon

            I think it’s going to be Glen that shows up one day with a car and whisks Sally off to her Big Rebellious Adventure.  (Which, things being as they’ve always been for Sally, will not be as much fun for her as it’ll be cracked up to be.) There’s been a lot of speculation that it’ll be Woodstock; the two of them’d be kind of young for that but stranger things have happened.

          • Sweetbetty

             I found it telling that one of the clips shown during the “Previously on Mad Men” segment before the start of the episode was Glenn telling Sally, “I’ll be able to drive  soon”, implying that he could come visit her.  I’m looking for her to call him during one of her crises and him coming to rescue her.  He’s a bit older than her, I believe, so his reaching driving age could come in the next season or so.  Then again, knowing Glenn, he might just take a car and drive to Sally whether he has a license or not.  And, yeah, I found it interesting too that they were able to stay in touch like they have.

    • LesYeuxHiboux

       I imagine that they connect on a certain level as children of divorce, when that was still reasonably uncommon. They get what the other is going through.

  • http://twitter.com/cdmarine C. Marine Lindemann

    For me, the really overwhelming theme of the episode was one of unsettling disillusionment with getting what you thought you wanted. Megan’s business success. Sally’s foray into the world of adults. Peggy’s proposal. Megan’s parents’ marriage. Roger’s (gentle and not at all unkind) “I told you so” discussion with his ex-wife about the dissolution of his marriage to Jane. And, of course, Joan as object lesson #1 in disillusionment with getting what you thought you wanted. Certainly, now that you mention it, I can definitely see a strong parent/daughter theme throughout, but for me the disillusionment with one’s own “successes” was much more palpable.

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      And Don, too! With the accolades comes the harsh truth of his reputation.

  • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

     Reading about how unusual it was to shack up in ’66 and far beyond, I’m wondering if I and my friends somehow occupied a weird futuristic bubble at that time — well, from ’68 on, to be exact. Most everybody I knew who went out on their own lived with their SO. It wasn’t unusual at all among the people I knew, in three different cities in a four-year span during that era. None were Catholic, though, as far as I know, so maybe that’s the difference.

    • judybrowni

      When I went to live with a boyfriend in the early ‘70s, although I was 22, my father was disapproving and yes, called it “shacking up.”

      Anachronistic to my ears, even then. Although college friends were marrying at that age (even at 21), living with a boyfriend seemed as natural a step then to my generation—although some still hid their living situation from visiting parents.

      Birth control was much less reliable for my father’s generation, abortion illegal, illegitimate children a scourge, teenage marriages acceptable.  If one wanted an ongoing sex partner, marriage seemed the only answer.
      On the other hand, we’d seen the marriages our mothers had been forced into, and weren’t as willing to take that plunge.

      Decades later when a niece lived with her boyfriend before marriage, my father accepted the explanation that she was trying him out before she committed to marry.

      • ldancer

        I just remembered that my father’s parents moved in together before WW2. They were semi-bohemian Communists. And they ended up getting married and living as soul mates until death.

      • malarkey

        You got it judybrowni. I ‘shacked up’ with my college BF in 1978. We lived together till 1981. I *never* told my parents we were living together. They might have figured it out, but the words were never spoken.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

        I think co-habitating was very common.  I remember, in college, in 1974ish, a girlfriend told me she was going to live with her boyfriend.  My reaction was verbatim, “What will people think?!”.  She said she didn’t care what people thought.  And nobody really gave it a second thought, and this was in a small town in Kentucky.  So I think a lot of people were co-habitating in the great anonymous NYC of the 60s.

        • Sweetbetty

           Mad Men is taking place in an era of change and a lot of change took place from 1966 to 1974.  It may have been going on in the great anonymous NYC of the 60s but it wasn’t accepted by people of Peggy’s background and if Abe has living parents that aren’t bohemians or other radical-for-the-time people I’m sure they’d disapprove of their son shacking up too, even beyond the fact that she was a Catholic girl.

  • Vodeeodoe

    No time to read through all the comments today but, I need more scenes with Roger and children – GOLD!
    Also Sally – woo boy that kid is coming of age in a wacky world. I’m kind of surprised the bathroom scene grossed her out. She has seemed fairly sexually curious until now. Then again, Megan’s mom did steal her date. Also, Peggy’s mom. Also, Don being told of the consequence of his actions. Youch.
    Has anyone mentioned that Megan pulling a Don Draper with the Heinz guy, making actual Don Draper sexually excited afterwards, how that is kind of discomforting?

  • CarolinLA

    One of the most dangerous times in a man’s life is when his work life is threatened.  Even more back then, a man’s identity was all encompassed in his work and this is the second week in a row that Don has been told his work is suffering (first by Bert last week and this week with Cynthia’s dad).  And to top it off, the Heinz account was saved by Megan’s guiding of Don.  That could create a tailspin for Don which would be an interesting counterpoint to Roger’s new invigoration.  

  • http://twitter.com/TigerLaverada TigerLaverada

    Haven’t read all the comments so maybe this has already been covered, but I was struck by the scene where Abe’s eating Chinese takeout with Peggy and the guys at the office. Peggy is laughing, collegial with her peers, completely at ease — and Abe is very noticeably not at ease, doesn’t feel full (what a metaphor), and wants out of there. Next day, Abe makes a move to bust up that club by proposing cohabitation. After all, Peggy’s not going to stay late at the office with the guys when he’s waiting at home for her.

    All of which led me to think that Abe sees Ginsburg specificlly as a threat. And to me that’s plausible, there’s an energy between Peggy and Ginsburg that’s undefined but interesting. 

    • PaulaBerman

       I definitely thought Abe’s proposition was directly inspired by feeling threatened by the men in the office so openly discussing Peggy’s undergarments.

      • Susan Crawford

        Agreed! He clearly delt marginalized by all the insider chit-chat. And I thing Ginsberg represents the ultimate threat to his relationship with Peggy. But I see nothing good ahead for the couple once he moves in.

        If he get too clingy and demanding, Peggy might just morph into Don and freeze him out.

    • formerlyAnon

      “After all, Peggy’s not going to stay late at the office with the guys when he’s waiting at home for her.”

      And THIS is the rock upon which I’ve always felt Abe & Peggy’s relationship will founder. Because, you know, I think Peggy IS going to stay late. Or, she’ll *want* to stay late at the office sometimes, even if she does come home to Abe. 

      And I will be shocked (SHOCKED) if he doesn’t, even if it’s unconsciously, expect her to come home on time “to him” even if sometimes he’s not there because of the demands of *his* work.

      At which point, some couples (especially of the time) would fight, make-up, get married, have a baby (and fight some more). But I don’t think Peggy will choose that path. She’ll dump him, or her refusal to conform to expectations will lead him to dump her.

    • JeanProuvaire

      I think Abe would be more likely to see Stan as the threat, since Stan’s worked with Peggy much longer and I think has obvious feelings for her–but I need to rewatch the scene to see what exactly Abe reacts to, since while the viewers know that Stan has seen Peggy naked and kissed her before, I highly doubt Abe does.

      Actually, I think you may be right about Abe seeing Ginsberg as the threat, but only because IIRC, he gets mad and leaves right after Ginzo’s speech about Peggy being a “traditionalist in the bosom arena.” (As someone who actually works in a lingerie store geared towards ladies of a certain age, I loved that and may need to put it on a business card or something.)

      • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

        Interesting. I think a bigger threat (in Abe’s eyes) would be the guy who Peggy is attracted to (Michael) rather than the one who is into her (Stan- and I think you are right that he does like her).

        Abe has definitely got his eye on Michael.

    • JeanProuvaire

      (whoops, double post)

  • MasterandServant

    Yikes…..my Brooklyn bred Italian Catholic mother had a fit when I moved in with my now husband…..we were 23 and 26. When we would visit, we had to stay in separate rooms. Ohhhh Peggy, I understand.

  • cleep1000

    I don’t know where you guys get that Megan’s finding she doesn’t enjoy the advertising game. I think she loves  it!

  • Linderella

    That shot of the five of them at the awards dinner table (which you show above) might just be my single favorite shot in the history of Mad Men.  What a brilliant meeting of five different minds.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=527150091 Pat Biswanger

    He also plays an arrogant conductor whose violinist-girlfriend is murdered by his wife on “Law & Order.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=527150091 Pat Biswanger

    I think Peggy’s reaction was largely driven by her feeling upstaged by Meghan at the office.  Here Meghan marries the Big Cheese, the guy made it clear from the get-go that he wasn’t interested in her, Peggy, and now Meghan trumps Peggy’s Heinz idea with a much better one.  I think that’s what flashed through her mind at Abe’s faux proposal:  Meghan = big-shot husband + great Heinz idea; Peggy = shacking up + rejected Heinz idea.  She’s feeling second class all around.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=527150091 Pat Biswanger

    And yet in this episode Henry and Betty are away, in Michigan, which was the state of which George Romney was governor.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=527150091 Pat Biswanger

    Was this guy supposed to be THE Mr. Heinz, or the head of advertising for Heinz?  I thought the latter.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=527150091 Pat Biswanger

    Ditto what Joe Johnson said.  And don’t forget, even Midge, the ultimate Bohemian, got married.

  • sononagal

     God did I gasp out loud at the whole Peggy/Abe sub-plot. 

    I am just over 50, and I remember telling my parents that (1) I was dating a non-Jew and (2) I was going to live with him.  That was a very hard conversation.  I got the whole “why buy the cow” speech and “how will you raise the children if you have them?” 

    The date?  1985!  

    I can’t imagine having the same conversation with any parents – let alone mine – in 1966!  The rules were pretty simple for women.  You marry and you marry “your own kind.”  Period.  Anything else makes you a slut.  Awful, but true.

    It also made me wonder what kind of conversation Abe was planning on having with his parents, if any at all. 

    • sarahjane1912

      Oh wow: double gasp. 
      I had the same conversation with MY mother in the mid-’80s when I [Church of England] was seeing a non-religious [but still] guy of Greek Orthodox extraction. I still remember her snootily informing me that: ‘Like must marry like or there can be no happiness’. Sheesh! Marrying one’s ‘own kind’, as you say, was the only way, it seemed, to function successfully even twenty-odd years after this MM episode. 

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UCLO5V2YD36T7QMPKOC7YXPOFU Erica

        It reminded me that my mom has told me that she suggested to my dad that they move in together in 1967 when they were dating, and he was appalled.  After a lot of back and forther, they married instead, and I was born in Oct. of 68.  Of course, they were in Atlanta, Georgia, and my mom was a “modern woman” working as an instructor at a university, but it must not have been unheard of back then.  Now, I’ve never asked her whether she would have  fessed up to her parents.  I like Peggy’s mom point that she would have preferred not to have known.  I had a good friend who asked me when I got married in 2006 whether we had told our folks that we lived together beforehand, because she had snuck around.  And we were 36 at the time!

  • luciaphile

    It was the way she looked when Peggy was congratulating her. Also, before with Don. She might have a talent for it; she might not, but she was nowhere near as happy as they were about it. Also I think Peggy saying “this is as good as it gets” seemed to shake her.

  • http://www.lindamerrill.com Linda Merrill

    Okay – I have two comments to make. #1 – I don’t find Glen at all creepy. He’s a little odd, but not creepy in a “keep away Sally!” way. Re: what he’s wearing when they talk on the phone – he’s standing in a hallway on a payphone in his school dormitory. Sally is clearly calling him and he’s wearing what he’s wearing when she calls.  And #2 – I spend entirely too much time on this site reading comments and thinking about MM. I have deadlines! That is all.

    • sweetlilvoice

      He’s grown into a cute young man! I’m glad she has someone close to her age to talk to, I always think of how lonely she probably is.

    • greenwich_matron

      I am definitely finding Glen less objectionable (I thought he was good and creepy). It helps a lot that they only talk on the phone and they talk about things other than Betty. Also, now that they are both strangers in strange lands makes their kinship more believable. It also helps that he has (had) a love interest.

      I am also spending entirely too much time on this site. Is there a way to only see the comments posted in the last couple of hours? It would help me waste time much more efficiently.

      • Sweetbetty

         ”I am also spending entirely too much time on this site. Is there a way to only see the comments posted in the last couple of hours? It would help me waste time much more efficiently.”Do you subscribe to each discussion by e-mail?  At the bottom of the page at TLo’s site, off to the left, there’s a link that says, “Subscribe by e-mail” and another that says, “RSS”.  I don’t know what the RSS does but if you subscribe by e-mail the new comments will be sent to your mailbox as they are made.  I made up a TLo folder and an e-mail “rule” for all messages coming from TLo’s site to go into that folder so they are kept separate from other e-mail.  This has helped me since I used to go back through the comments from the beginning looking for new ones.

    • sarahjane1912

      Agree. He was a LITTLE creepy in the first series — nabbing himself a lock of Betty’s hair was pretty … out there — but mostly I thought he was just an ‘irregular weave’. He looks more comfortable in his own skin now, can chat to Sally about anything, has an easy relationship [it seems] with his boarding school classmates, and even has a relationship history [aka the ex-girlf who's keeping his mind off his trig' study]. Seems pretty normal to me now.

  • filmcricket

    Don’s been on several – not with acid, but you’d think he’d had enough of drugs. The first time he tries pot, his mistress breaks up with him. Then there were those kids that gave him something (I forget what), knocked him out and robbed him.

  • filmcricket

    Megan’s definitely Quebecois; she’s said she’s Canadian a number of times and she’s let slip at least one French Canadian swear word that I don’t think is in use in France. But her parents could certainly be emigres; the accent suggests it, as do her father’s politics and profession (only in France can “intellectual” be a career path).

    • formerlyAnon

      “only in France can “intellectual” be a career path”
      Oh, you made me laugh out loud!

  • astoriafan

    Something interesting from Sally’s phone call to Glen early in the ep: She made that (kinda odd) comment about how a breakup is less likely to be a heartbreaker if you’re the girl. Or something like that. I take it she was teasing Glen about his girl not being that into him? 

    It occurred to me, though, that that characterization might apply also to Peggy and Abe. Peggy’s fear of loneliness and her interest in having a marriage proposal is juxtaposed against what we KNOW is her ambivalence about filling the expected role of women, professionally or personally. If there is an imbalance of commitment between her and Abe, it looks to me like Abe’s the one who’s on the hook more than Peggy. Though the idea of having a marriage proposal (and maybe even saying yes) is attractive to her, I don’t get the impression she’ll be devastated when they break up. 

    You could maybe even apply Sally’s comment beyond that… pretty much all the women in this week’s episode seem less in thrall to their men than could be said of the reverse. Mona, Megan, Megan’s mom–all of them are portrayed as going ahead and doing their thing, while the men are begging/following/dependent on them in various ways. 

  • greenwich_matron

    Megan’s family accents are not that hard to explain. Between the wars, many well to do English girls spent a lot of time in France and went to finishing school in France or Switzerland. A young, rebellious English girl who has spent a great deal of time in Europe speaks excellent if accented French.  She meets a dashing student in Paris who sweeps her off her feet and scandalizes her parents with his Marxist views. Nazi takeover is imminent, so the young communists marry and immigrate to Canada (easy with her British passport). They settle in Montreal, where he indulges his intellectual Marxism at university and she wonders what the hell happened. She produces several children while maintaining her perfect shape and balancing her husbands politics with her love of great dresses. In deference to her husband’s position and early support of separatism, she rarely speaks English and has trained herself to not use her native RP.

    • inchoate

      I’ve been mulling that over since this episode aired. What university would it be? Concordia (which is anglo anyway) and UQAM didn’t exist yet; would he really fit in at the Université de Montréal or anglo McGill? Broadly speaking, Montreal’s affluent classes in the ’40s and ’50s were English-speaking; French Canadians as a group were quite poor and highly religious. Emile and Marie would not have been the norm, and I’m not sure there would have been so many places to buy great dresses, either.

      I consider it a missed opportunity for MM. Quebec is in the middle of the Quiet Revolution; they skip over Expo ’67 between seasons 5 and 6; the FLQ crisis is coming in a couple of years. Emile and Marie are minor characters, but even so, there’s a rich history to mine there. Instead Weiner & Co. seem to have made the usual American mistake of confusing French Canada with France.

  • Caro_PassportandaToothbrush

    I just want to say something, I’m surprised they haven’t worked out to get the proper accents for Megan and her family. They’re from Montréal (as am I) and yet she speaks as if she’s from France (which is odd, given the actress is from Québec) and the mom could NOT speak French for the life of her. The dad was a bit better, but I still can’t believe they’d mess up so hard on the accents! (P.S: I looove your readups!) 

  • Jennie Santeler

    “And so Katherine said it, telling her little girl that Abe would someday
    marry a woman, but it wasn’t going to be her. And in yet another of
    those moments that shocks us into the realization that we’re getting
    older, we found ourselves unconsciously nodding our heads and thinking,
    “She’s right.” But maybe she’s not right!”

    This comment was too funny. I’m only 25, but I found myself nodding in agreement when Katherine was giving her little lecture. When I finally realized what I was doing, I turned to my co-habitating fiance, mouth agape. I had no words. Despite the fact that I (a Jew) lived with my boyfriend (a Catholic) for 1 1/2 years before a marriage proposal, in that moment I was totally (and nonsensically) buying Katherine’s promises of doom and heartbreak! Maybe it’s because I felt uncomfortable about Abe’s suggestion to move-in, when it was clear that Peggy was completely prepared to say “yes” to a lifelong commitment. It made me feel like they were in different places in the relationship. I also got the impression that Peggy has those same fears about Abe’s level of commitment. Joan was able to relieve some of those fears by voicing all of the reasons Peggy had to be happy and excited about the proposal (affirming her own positive thoughts), but perhaps part of the reason Peggy wanted to provoke a confrontation with her mother was because she needed someone to give voice to the things that worried her about it (affirming her negative thoughts). I don’t think we can predict how everything will turn-out, but I do think that Joan and Katherine, together, showcased some of Peggy’s ambivalence. She’s chosen to focus on the positive for now, but I bet it wouldn’t take much for the pendulum to swing the other way.

  • texashistorian

    I’m not really good at analyzing stories, but I thought the less obvious theme of the show was “truth.” Don got the truth from the man at the ball; Megan is confronted with the lack of truth in advertising, and is better at hiding the truth than acknowledging it (maybe that’s why she’s so good with Don); Sally learns the sad truth about grown-ups, but won’t tell the truth herself; Peggy is trying to find the truth in her life, even going so far as to tell her mother that she’s going to “live in sin.” And then there’s Roger, who needs an hallucination to learn his own truths.

    I may be coming from left field on this, however.

    Also, I thought Peggy seemed relieved rather than rejected when Abe did not ask to marry her. Peggy was flattered, but I believe she did not sincerely want to marry – she’s never expressed a desire to marry before – and I believe she was trying to play a part rather than actually desiring a traditional life. Though this whole series seems to be about Don, I think Peggy is an equal character to him, and all other characters act as catalysts so that we can understand her growth and turmoil.

    PS: I loved that the last statement in the show was “It’s dirty.” Matthew Weiner has said in interviews that he wants to show how disheveled and decayed New York City became as it moved to the 1970s, and Sally’s comment is a great foreshadowing.

    • sweetlilvoice

      Agreed! Especially about the last comments and the decaying city.

    • judybrowni

      When I and my brother moved to New York in the early ’70s my father in New Jersey couldn’t understand why we’d want to live in that “dirty” city.

      We loved it! New York may have been dirty and decaying, but that made it affordable for people in their 20s just stearting out, we were happy that other people didn’t want to be there: more for us.

    • AuntFiona

      Agree w/ you TexasHistorian, especially re: Peggy “playing a part.” I
      felt as if she thought trying on Joan’s POV, being the
      pretty-engaged-girl, might be fun — and might offer a kind of success
      among her office friends. While her professional drive demonstrates that
      she wants career success, Peggy may not know just what she wants to be
      in her personal life. Or how to integrate the two.

  • P M

    It was pretty cool to see some Roger-realness in this episode.
     

  • FloridaLlamaLover

    Watched this episode again just now — and I have to say, Roger and Mrs. Calvet were completely lacking in discretion! Didn’t notice that the giant room they were in was right. there. off the main area!  I thought they were a little more hidden (again, didn’t have on glasses the first time)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1540233153 Malve Lyborg

      And it must have been quiet in there, so why didn’t they hear it when Sally opened the door with all the people outside talking?

    • Sweetbetty

       Totally agreed while I was watching.  They’re in a big unlocked room right off a busy area, right in the middle when they could have gone off to a corner, Marie off to the side of the sofa in full view rather than in front of it blocked from view of anyone in the doorway.  Extremely poor planning on their part, but then I assume they had had enough to drink that discretion wasn’t high on their list of priorities.  Besides, then we couldn’t have the plot point of Sally seeing what she saw.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1241487378 Lauren Lynch Fox

      I did not have my glasses on either, and was on vacation and watching with my 15 year old son….who told me what happened (in perfect teenage language). That lead to a fun Mother and son conversation. I watched it again alone and have to say that I was a little disturbed at what Sally witnessed. Her first big “grown up” event, dressed by her cool step-mom (who would have let her wear the boots and the make up), fancy food (even if kind of gross for a kid) and big attention from Daddy telling her how beautiful she was. Even the grown up attention from Roger….and then you see that. I’m sure the City did seem “dirty”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sally-Barry/100000202371996 Sally Barry

    I was Sally’s age, maybe a bit older, back in the 60′s.  I didn’t go to a lot of formal events except for the junior prom (where I had a periwinkle blue chiffon sheath and waist length hair in a Dairy Queen-ice-cream upsweep) but….I really thought Sally’s short sparkly dress was more 70′s.  The white boots were too high and tight, too, also more 70′s.  I HAD white go-go boots, they were not even knee high and not tight.  

  • cteeny21

    I am probably just posting something someone already said, but I’m guessing that Ken knows that no one will work with Don (maybe his father-in-law told him). It could be why him and Peggy have a pact to leave with each other. Ken is just being cautious and preparing himself. 

  • Sarah Hamilton

    Terrific recap! I might be overanalyzing, but only the intriguing/crazy mind of Matthew Weiner would have Laura Palmer’s dad (Ray Wise) be a guest star on an episode so heavily focused on father/daughter relationships. 

    • http://profiles.google.com/sara.e.munoz Sara Munoz

      I loved Twin Peaks so much.  So the guest stars are making me very happy. First Madchen Amick (Shelly the waitress) as Andrea, and now Ray Wise. 
      I’m ready for Piper Laurie to make an appearance. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129137319 Paula Pertile

    What everyone else said.

    Plus, I really did notice the Godfather-esque music (with a French twist), several times. It even ‘swelled’ and got louder just like it did in the movie. Not sure what the parallel is there, exactly, but it could not have been accidental? 

    “You’re a mean drunk.” Loved that. 

  • roadtrip1000

    There was actually an article in the New York Times a few weeks (or months) ago on this topic. The study they cited found that there was a higher level of divorce among couples who had first lived together. They speculated that among other reasons it might be because couples that were married first had planned it, while those who started to live together just fell into it. In other words the latter group tended to move in together to save time traveling, to cut back on expenses, etc, etc. and then figured they might as well get married. In other words, the level of commitment wasn’t as high. There were other variables involved as well. Of course, I don’t remember the actual difference in divorce rates but I don’t think there was a huge difference.

    • Jade Hawk

       ”The study they cited found that there was a higher level of divorce among couples who had first lived together.”

      yes. IN THE 80′s!

      seriously: modern studies have shown that the cohabitation effect has disappeared, once certain characteristics are controlled for.

  • http://twitter.com/ZoeyCharles7 Zoey

    One of the first comments Emile makes to Don is that Megan only pretends to be interested in [Emile's] work because of her love for him. When Megan seemed so glum after getting the praise for Heinz award, I thought of this comment. Is she pretending that she loves advertising because she loves Don?  Her father certainly believes that she has ignored her passion.  And her response to the praise from Peggy and her peers seems to underline that.

    After that first scene with Don meeting the parents, we move to the Chinese food scene.  Abe clearly is miserable. He doesn’t pretend to even like her work, is that because he doesn’t love her?  Or is he right to want to keep work and marriage so seperated? Clearly Megan and Don blur the lines between work and marriage.  I found it interesting that they were the opposites here. It will be interesting to see what ends up working. 

  • Jade Hawk

     seriously? wow.

    I am now more glad than ever that my mom couldn’t have given me that speech if she wanted to (not that she did want to, but still)

  • Jade Hawk

     ”I think that girl is going to reject it all, the old money world of her
    mother and step-father, the new money, and slick glamour of her dad’s
    world. That girl will be rolling in the mud at Woodstock in denim and
    paisley in just a few years….”
    nope; she’ll be going to shows at CBGBs ;-)

    • ldancer

      Yep. I hold out hope that Sally will be playing bass in a no-wave band in about ten years. I can see it now.

    • http://twitter.com/Selkiechick Selkiechick

       That is even better than what I had envisioned!!!!!

    • formerlyAnon

      Yeah, CBGBs definitely works better with the timeline.

      • purkoy28

        what is cbgb?

        • formerlyAnon

           CBGB was the best known NYC music club for punk & new wave (& “art
          punk,” “post-punk,” etc.) music in the 1970s and into the 80s. It was where
          touring acts (e.g. the Sex Pistols) came and homegrown acts (Ramones,
          Television) built a following. It opened in ’73 or ’74 and by the late 70s young
          people who were even casually keeping up with music would have heard of CBGB
          even if they didn’t know where one would go to hear new wave/punk in their own
          area. Located in the Bowery & known for not booking “cover bands,” only
          those that played primarily their own original music. I think the club survived
          until 6 or 7 years ago, but I don’t know what kind of venue it had evolved into
          by that time.

    • purkoy28

      i agree, i always thought she will end up using drugs and partying all the time, she will be the girl backstage smoking a joint,lol. Its fun to contemplate how the kids will turn out, if we all had our way they would run madmen until the kids are in their 30′s lol. I wonder how the boys will end up, or nif megan and don or betty and henry will have any kids, any thoughts?

  • lauraq99

    I am wondering how Sally was able to keep in touch with Glenn. Long distance used to be so costly, and complicated. Betty would not appreciate her kid running up the phone bill to stay in touch with a boy so forbidden from her life.

    • greenwich_matron

      I was wondering about that too. Would Westchester county be one calling area?

      • judybrowni

        Long distance not that complicated in the ’60s, just expensive.

        However, if Glen’s school was in the same state, unlikely it would be that expensive, and probably wouldn’t be that noticeable in wealthy households.

        • greenwich_matron

          Pre- AT&T breakup? I think calls to New England would get noticed. I remember we had a clock by every phone, and god forbid if we should call long distance before 5 p.m. 

          • AuntFiona

             I wondered about this, too, but figured that Sally’s step-father’s work would involve a lot of long distance phoning. He’d probably put his bill on an expense acct and might not scrutinize numbers called too carefully.

          • greenwich_matron

            Maybe he chooses not to notice them. Or maybe the bill hasn’t come in yet. Or maybe I need to remember that these aren’t real people…

    • purkoy28

      probably henry pays the bills or at least his assistant,  betty probably doesn’t even see the finances or bills.

  • ybbed

    I totally agree. Its like she is straddling two worlds, she can’t quite help the socialization that has brought her to this point in her life, but she has also had a taste of what it is like to be independent, self sufficient, “free” in her mind anyway.  She knows she is supposed to be excited about the “proposal” and Joan does her part to build that anticipation, but she isn’t quite sure this is what she wants.
    When I look at the Peggy-Megan characters I can’t help but compare Megan’s more liberated attitude towards work, her man, her confidence. Peggy just seems kind of wimpy now.  I sometimes wonder if Peggy is gay but not out yet.

  • ybbed

    wow, my comment went to the totally wrong place on this page
    scroll down to Kathryn and Leleidi

  • AuntFiona

    Fantastic recap and analysis, TLo. As a couple others have said, I find myself looking forward to your blog as much as I do MM. It’s like you’re the second half of the night. And your readers’ comments are terrific. 

  • sarahjane1912

    Question: maybe someone can help me?

    What time does the Mad Style episode re-cap go up? I live in the Middle East [so watch the episode after the US shows it, and am always late to the episode comments!] but would love to be ‘up to date’ on the ‘Style’ post.

    Thanks in advance! :-)

    • http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/ Tom and Lorenzo

      We try to get it up ever Wednesday (and so far, we’ve managed it) but we can’t guarantee what time of day it goes up. It will likely be several more hours at least.

      • sarahjane1912

        Oh fantastic! Thank you! It’s 6.15pm here so I’ll definitely still be awake. Cheers! 

      • nosniveling

        let the page refreshing begin :D

  • 3rdsister

    Thanks to everyone who comments.  I enjoy reading your thoughts as much as TLo’s.

    That said, I have to give a shout out to Pete Campbell.  He took on Emile’s challenge of “Just what do you do?” with an elegant efficiency and grace so perfect for an Accounts guy.  A wonderful demonstration of his skills and Emile’s ego.

    • purkoy28

      I agree, but its disturbing at how easily he lies, he is trying so hard to be the don draper from the past, or at least the don draper pete has made up in his mind and idolized this perception of what he thinks don is (or was).

  • Patti Browning

    First time commenter, avid watcher of the show.

    Megan is so interesting to me!  She loves Don and wants to please him, but she is young yet and still growing into the woman she will eventually become.  She’s already so much more independent and spirited than other women Don has been with long-term.  Megan’s flip-flop behaviors (the scene with Peggy about Heinz, for one) may be symptoms of a bigger problem stemming from her inability to admit to herself that she’s trying to be the person she’d like to be as opposed to the woman she is.  Her dismissive and uncomfortable reaction to her father during their confrontation at the table (when he told her she wasn’t struggling) seems to highlight that internal dialogue.

    Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like they are setting up a long-range end to Don and Megan’s relationship, but this time it’ll be Don getting left behind.  Don who is hurt, saddened, and betrayed.  Don who, after finally growing into the full depth of a relationship with a woman, laying himself bare before her, trusting and loving her, viewing and treating her as his emotional and intellectual equal, and harboring a deep respect for her as his life partner, finds that she has outgrown him.   Don is finally looking backward out of hard-earned wisdom and realizing that what is important to him as he ages isn’t work but the family he never had growing up.   He just might find the tables turning on him in this instance. 

    Just my thoughts.

  • tsol

    “It’s an extraordinarily cynical business and Megan might be coming to the realization that such easy lying and casual bullshit aren’t good for her”

    …to be fair, she did want to be an actress!

  • http://twitter.com/dixielou8 Ashley

    I was hoping for some talk on Joan and Peggy’s talk while in Joan’s office. When Joan is telling her he is going to propose, not end things. Joan says something so profound, IMO, and I cant remember how she really worded it. She says something like Men dont end things, they ignore you or something. I would love to have her exact words. I deleted the episode from my DVR last night on accident. UGH!

    • aquamarine17

      this isn’t exact, but something like “you ignore each other until there is a declaration of hate.” (or maybe just the man ignoring)

      • sarahjane1912

        Yup, it’s definitely that HE ignores you ‘until there’s a declaration of hate’, not that you ignore each other. It ties in with Joan’s observation that MEN don’t normally arrange special dinner dates unless there’s a pronouncement of some sort.

        • Sarah Michaels

          It’s “Men don’t take time to end things. They ignore you until you insist upon a declaration of hate.”I liked this episode a lot. I liked the connection between Emile and Katherine– they’re both judging their daughters, telling them what they’re doing is wrong– and they’re RIGHT– but for different reasons than they think. Emile is not down with his daughter being handed extraordinary wealth that she didn’t earn herself and working in advertising because it goes against his political and personal beliefs. Katherine is against Peggy moving in with Abe because it goes against her religious beliefs. And neither of these girls should be doing what they’re doing because it makes them unhappy– Meghan is not satisfied with her job but she’s settling because she’s afraid to become an actress because it seems scary and hard and Don wouldn’t like it, and Peggy is not satisfied moving in with Abe because she really wants to marry him but she’s settling because she doesn’t want to lose him and be alone. Neither one of what these girls is doing is bad, but because it goes against what they truly want, it’s bad for them. But because both girls are being told what they’re doing is wrong by their parents, and it’s wrapped up with political and religious beliefs that they reject, they can’t hear it for the good advice that it is.Great episode!

  • tintashoopa

    I know I am a week late but I have read many so many comments on this episode, looking for someone else to have mentioned this: One thing that really struck me (and it obviously has stayed with me because I’m still looking for a comment about it 10 days later) was the scene with Megan’s mother asleep with the cigarette.

    It looked exactly like a mirror image of the silhouette logo of the show with Don’s hand draped over the couch, holding a cigarette. I found it to be so jarring and glaring but considering I seem to be the only person who noticed, perhaps it wasn’t.

    I thought it must have been showing a connection between Don and Marie, especially Marie’s “moment” with Roger so like Don in his pre Megan life.

  • maya s

    great episode.

    there’s something funny about how Megan wants to be an actress but she finds the SCDP world so phony. That Heinz pitch is the most acting she ever got to do!