Walking Dead: “Judge, Jury, Executioner”

Posted on March 05, 2012

It says something about the direction and tone of this show that the one character arguing for the preservation of life and the rule of law is the most irritating of all the characters by far, and what should have been a gripping argument about goals and methods instead turned into a whiny harangue from a character who’s been offering nothing but whiny harangues for a while now. In other words, on the face of it, we agreed with just about every single thing Dale said but the entire time he was talking, we could only think, “Oh, Dale. Will you ever shut the fuck up?”

Turns out? He will!

We’ve been saying for a while that the show needs a big death. This’ll do nicely, we suppose. Dale should have been a more interesting character than he turned out to be, but it’s clear the writers had no idea how to make his arguments work in this story, which in turn made him come across increasingly wild-eyed and frantic, even though he was always the only one of the characters fighting to preserve some order and sanity in the world. The statements he was making deserved a better mouthpiece than him, and we wonder in retrospect what, exactly, the writers were trying to do with this character. It seems he was meant to be a counter to Shane’s more sociopathic ways, except the writers can’t seem to help making Shane right all of the time and making people like Dale and Rick scramble behind him, weakly offering moral arguments that go nowhere. It’s sort of like the woman issue on this show. Between manipulative, self-centered Lori, fatalistic Andrea, and doormat Carole, it’s hard not to wonder what the hell the writers think of women. With Dale, especially after his gruesome death and string of poorly made arguments, we find ourselves wondering if the writers just slapped a moral argument on him every now and then simply because they knew they were supposed to; not because they felt like what he was arguing had any value. He never once made his arguments well and went from being a likable and warm person to a controlling, meddling, and frankly, somewhat stupid person. Then again, stupidity seems to be rampant with this crowd.

We really, REALLY hate to keep beating this dead horse, but exactly how much tension are we supposed to feel whenever one of these idiots wanders off and walks around like they’re at an outdoor concert? What is the thinking behind allowing Carl to take long walks in the woods alone? Or are we simply to accept that there is no thinking, not with this crew? To which we would ask, then why the hell should anyone of us really give a shit about any of them? The last kid who wandered off from the group? SHOT HER IN THE HEAD. What exactly will it take for these idiots to learn a lesson?

And much like last week, when we sat there open-mouthed at the idea that the writers expected us to care about Herschel’s suicidal daughter (whose name we still can’t remember) after weeks of being expected to care about Carole’s similarly nameless, faceless daughter, we couldn’t believe we were being treated to ANOTHER hour-long argument about whether or not to shoot the person in the barn. Come season 3, the barn will be converted to a suicide treatment center and every lady who gets the lady vapors can be shipped off there so that Rick and Shane can clench their jaws at each other and argue about what to do with her.

In fact, let’s make a short-term prediction for the rest of this season (and none of what’s been happening is in the books, so this isn’t spoiler-y): Randall escapes, endangering the entire group and proving Shane right once again. A lady says something incredibly ladystupid. Someone wanders off. T-Dog leans against a tree and says nothing, his dignity growing with each dialogueless episode.

That about sums it up.

This wasn’t a bad episode, but it was pretty much a Greatest Hits listing of all the things wrong with the scripting on this show. There was a valid and possibly engrossing argument to be had here and once again, the writers proved themselves incapable of handling it in anything but the most basic and perfunctory way.

 

 

[Photo Credit: AMC]

    • BigShamu

      Here’s what I thought when little Carl went a’wandering.  That his mother had successfully passed on the gene for The Stupid to her child.

      • gsk241

        I think Carl’s problems stem from Lori always calling him “Baby.”  Seriously, that’s just insulting, not to mention ridiculously smothering, for a kid that age.  No wonder he can’t grow up and get some sense.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

          Carl needs a friend and found one in Swamp Walker.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_LKEXXETU3A347XGCCWUYZ6K3TE NJScor72

      I literally was frustrated all episode with how stupid Carl is – an all of Lori’s overprotectiveness that she’s displayed – no oversight on the farm, just go kid, have fun!  Was hoping that idiot would get bitten by the stuck walker.  And seriously, how does a walker sneak up on you in an open field?  If I was Dale and saw a gutted cow, I wouldn’t sit there and stare, I’d turn the eff around and look for walkers… and why are they having strategic discussion within earshot of the prisoner???  I keep hoping this show will be as good as season 1, but it’s just not…

      • Paigealicious

         I was wondering why Dale was out there investigating in the dark! Bring a light, use the buddy system…come on, people!

        • BigShamu

          Or still living in tents?  Why the hell are you not building some freaking decent shelter??  You’re going to live in tents for the upcoming winter?

          • Macasilver

            After I saw that walker crack open Dale’s chest/stomach, I immediately thought of the frailness of the tents, those are not safe, AT ALL.

        • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

          I think he was just stomping off, not investigating.

          • Paigealicious

            Oh, okay. That must have been when I dozed off.

        • Megan Patterson

           I’m still not entirely sure. Initially I thought it was to kill himself, but he brought a shotgun (although knowing this lot, one of them WOULD try to kill themselves with a shotgun).

    • JANA WELLS

      LOL sad but true “A lady says something incredibly ladystupid. Someone wanders off. T-Dog
      leans against a tree and says nothing, his dignity growing with each
      dialogueless episode.”

    • Paigealicious

      So much word. When Carl grabbed the gun (!) and ran into the woods, I was literally like *facepalm*, followed by me hoping he’d get killed for real this time.

    • mommyca

      I actually thought it was a pretty good episode, and even though it was stupid for Lori to let Carl wonder around alone, I thought it advanced the narrative showing how screwed up the kid got, and how humanity might not have much hope in the future, if kids act that way…. the moment he starts throwing stones at the walker stuck in the mud, it gave you an idea of how mean he has become, and how the whole apocalypse had really screwed him up; not that I expected some compassion, but to me it was a turning point, and an interesting idea to pursue further.  The fact that his actions triggered a major blow in the group was a bonus.
      So, one interesting point: can the walkers now be super strong as to open live flesh like that with their hands? if he had bitten Dale I would have understood better, but with the hand? To me it was like a scene from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and the dude taking hearts out :-) and also: was the walker hiding under the pile of burnt walkers?

      • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

        The pile of burnt walkers was a wtf to me. I thought they put those in a mass grave or something.

        • mommyca

          they keep them as a memento? :-) now we know it’s a pretty good place for “live” walkers to hide in…. (eyes rolling)

          • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

            I was expecting one of them to move or something. Considering they have nothing to do all day and farm equiment, you’d think they’d take a few minutes out of their tanning and talking to shove them into a hole, cover it up and salt the earth.

            Stupidest people ever.

            • mommyca

              i thought they were going to move too!!!! hahhaha

            • turtleemily

               I was expecting one of them to move or something.

              I thought we were going to see a zombie crawl out from inside the cow.

        • http://twitter.com/Goldielox73 Goldie

           I seem to remember that they specifically said they were only going to bury their loved ones, Sophia and Herschel’s family.  The rest were just going to be burned.  If they don’t have a tractor, they would spend days digging a hole big enough for them.  If they do have a tractor, they might not want to waste the fuel to dig the hole.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jane-Morris/1076502799 Jane Morris

            Not just a tractor, but a thing on the tractor that would dig.. a back hoe? I think it’s called.  People don’t have those sitting around on their farms.  

            • http://twitter.com/LDRphotography LaurenDRogers Photo

              Actually (farm girl here), a backhoe is just about the most common tractor attachment people have. On a farm with cattle and evidently enough cropland to keep feeding these well-padded idiots, they would almost certainly have a tractor with a backhoe and a plow. I’ve seen hay too, so chances are they have a baler. 

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=739196218 Leah Burns

               Yeah, but it would use up gas. Not that that seems to be an issue, given the way they are driving around.

          • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

            Well yea but what else are they doing?

      • BigShamu

        Well you know Lori was too busy doing important woman’s work to watch her child.  Or put him to work.  It’s a farm, kids much younger than him work on farms today.

      • donnaINseattle

        I thought it was a good episode too.

        We discussed the hand ripping open Dale too and decided we would assume the fingernails may still grow and they could have been claw-like. Seems you have to assume a lot with this show and the characters. I was surprised Andrea or Rick didn’t lean into Dale and whisper “I’m sorry” in his ear. I’m also surprised Darryl wouldn’t have just said it out loud to him in that situation.

        • BigShamu

          I think it was bizarre with as much as Dale like to talk that they didn’t give him one word to say at his own death scene.

      • megancsu

        I agree, it is interesting to see how the zombie apocalypse is effecting (affecting?) the kid.  I think it’s another example of the writing have a good point and a poor delivery.  I think the episode really tried to focus on how much faith Carl is losing in everything – religion, humanity, respect for others, etc. – but instead all the viewer was able to focus on was how incredibly stupid his parents are.  When he first popped up in the barn and the prisoner started talking to him, I actually thought he was going to shoot the kid.  It was very Children of the Corn for a second there…..

        • Andrea

          ” When he first popped up in the barn and the prisoner started talking to him, I actually thought he was going to shoot the kid.”

          - me too!!

    • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

      All last episode I couldn’t figure out what the big deal about what to do with Randell was. Of course, now they’ve pretty tortured him, destorying any chance of loyalty and oh look! Shane is right, he’s an awful dude even though it doesn’t really make sense.

      (He’s form the area, with no logical reason for leaving the town, so he couldn’t have been with the other group of 30 – 30? with kids? our group can’t even keep 15 alive – long but long enough for them to give him a gun and take him out into the middle of the woods where they rape the two girls while the dad watches? What? Makes no sense. And they’re afraid that he’ll lead them to the farm - but if he going to do that, the other group would already be at the farm? This makes no sense script.)

      • http://www.facebook.com/isaiah.tanenbaum Isaiah Tanenbaum

        before the run-in in town he would have had no reason to seek out the farm; he would have assumed it was like any other farm in the area. now he knows it’s inhabited and relatively safe.

        • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

          That makes even less sense then – why would he want an inhabited farm?

          If he is traveling with 30 odd people with guns, then it wouldn’t have been hard to clear a farm. The most business we’ve seen so far zombie wise was at the sheriffs office and that was 10? Any where they go they run the risk of running into a group of zombies.

        • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

          And to be honest, these would of been little concern if they didn’t torture him.

    • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

      Oh and how messed up is it that everyone is debating Randell’s character and how he has to die even though he didn’t do anything! (I don’t count the shooting because they didn’t know their buddies drew first and frankly, Rick and the gang would of done the same if the tables were flipped.)

      But everyone except Hershel’s people acknowledge that Shane killed Oatis! Even Rick! So stupid!

      I’m almost over this show. I just stick around for Daryl.

      • rawrgrowlrawr

        I would be happier watching TWD if Daryl was the only character. But I could also spend a day staring at Norman Reedus’s picture, so I may be biased. 

        • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

          I went to a small college in WV. If only the rednecks hanging out in the bars looked like Daryl – I’d have never left.

          TWD would be better if only Daryl. Carol and T-Dog can come too, since they have development to explore. They can be seaching for Merle. Glen, Maggie and Hershel can make appearances. There, characters people care about and an actual goal (besides survive and lets talk about surviving).

          AMC – you’re welcome!

    • http://twitter.com/ohmybears48 Michelle Argento

      I was literally cheering on Carl’s death when the Walker grabbed him. CHEERING. But when Dale kicked it, I was actually bit upset. This show has basically lost all priorities. 

      • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

         It does upset me that now it feels as if the show has no moral compass. When you have Shane as the devil on your shoulder, you need someone as the angel, and now there really is no one.

        • Glammie

          I think we’re going to see Angela actually kind of move around that way.  She was the one person who switched and now it’s been said she’s was a civil-rights lawyer–not that there’s any sign of it in how the character’s written.

          • http://www.facebook.com/isaiah.tanenbaum Isaiah Tanenbaum

            that’s clearly where they’re going (haven’t read the books yet, just judging by the scripting in this ep)

    • Pennymac

      Gritted my teeth through the all talk no action of this episode; so much so that when Dale became walker bait I was ready to cheer.

      Really writers? You gave Dale the line “You’re making all about survival of the fittest” as a major point in his argument? I think that actually proves the point of this guys a threat, lets off him. HE STAYED WITH A GROUP OF PSYCHOS AFTER THEY RAPED two young girls!

      I guess Dale didn’t survive because he wasn’t fit.  

    • MilaXX

      Thank you! I’m about done with how these folks continually wander off alone, but letting Carl, much less any child wander off especially in light of what just happened with Sophia is beyond dumb. When Rick was giving Carl that lecture and kept telling him to “THINK!” all I could think about was how noone else there does.
      Come on show, do better!

      • DinahR

        This, so much.  Apparently it was always Carol watching Carl when Sophia was still here.  Ever since then Carl has done nothing but — as Shane so aptly put it, “tried to get himself killed”.  Lori seems pretty happy to just let Carl get on with that too.  

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lucía-Gavello/1253586868 Lucía Gavello

          Well yeah, she has to save all her stupid juice for the new baby. Carl’s all mean and dumb now, she must be so proud.

    • Jessica Rowe

      Dale is (was) annoying… you are bang on.  But he was the only one making sense – if they killed this guy, they’d be murderers.  And now he is dead.  The only good person that made any sense is dead.  Why do I want to watch a bunch of people who I don’t like?  

      • Glammie

        Before I saw the episode, I saw a description “a beloved character dies”–and I kept wandering, who would that be?

        Made me realized I didn’t like any of ‘em–Darryl and Maggie are okay, but man, these are not likable people.  

    • nancy

       I was expecting Carl to shoot Randall!

      • donnaINseattle

        Me too!

      • GenXcellent

        Yes, me too…and I would have been ok with that.  I mean, as an interesting plot turn that is. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lucía-Gavello/1253586868 Lucía Gavello

          I agree, I was totally expecting that as a culmination of the “kid is fucked up now” plotline. Instead of that the kid is going to feel guilty because he lead the swamp walker right to the farm and -I’m calling it- It’s going to be fucking BORING.

          • GenXcellent

            Right..they are making him “kind of fucked up” but not enough that they were willing to really “go there” with it.  He “wanted to watch” didn’t quite pack the same punch.

            • Heather Hayes

               I was hoping they’d go all out and make Carl kill him, but then we’d be subjected to endless “our child is a sociopath, what do we do?” arguments.  Maybe it’s better he’s only kinda messed up.

            • http://twitter.com/baxterinteriors Michelle Baxter

              I have a different thought. Like maybe he’s not a sociopath but trying to be a grown up. He is the only kid left for miles. Who can he try to be like? Kids look to their peers for guidence and yet he has no “peers”. I see it as him trying to become a man.

    • Caren Tarvin

      How can Lori be expected to watch Carl when Andrea is not helping her with the laundry?  Or the cooking?  Or otherwise making the farm a haven for the men?

      It’s pretty funny that the spokesmom for overly tradition gender roles can’t be bothered with that most important of roles: mother.  She’s never watched him.  She’s always asking other people to watch Carl.  Even when Carole told her about Carl being a jerk, Lori was all about “we” will talk to him.  It’s a job she’s more than happy enough to leave to Rick or Shane, and she was all Lady macbeth on Shane a couple weeks ago.

      Is it wrong that I root for the walkers now?  Wouldn’t it be a better show if they dealt with the fact that the walkers don’t really seem to be decaying past a certain threat level and that they seem to be thinking?  A zombie was trying to block the gun last week.  This zombie tracked Carl long after  he was out of sight/smell.  Onto the magical farm!

      Heck, even if they really dealt with life after the Zombie Apocalyse–needing food for the winter.  A real shelter other than a tent.  Really making the farm a safe haven.  That would be a more interesting show.  

      • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

        OMG Andrea, if you just made the damn sweet tea like Lori commanded when Rick said he was thirsty, Dale would still be alive!

        No, I seriously believe they will have Andrea go all guilt trip next week about Dale dying. Even though you know any sane woman would have a restraining order against him by now.

        • TropiCarla

          Still LOL about “the damn sweet tea.”

      • LondonMarriott

         This is true – I noticed the walkers are learning quite a lot!  The one stuck in the mud twisting about instead of going straight for Carl.  The walkers on top of Rick pushing his gun hand away.  The female walker who abandoned her zombie buddies to go after Randall, who was bound by ropes.  They’re adapting and THAT is scary, not annoying-ass Dale and his Jimmy Buffet attire.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

          True, ripping out Dale’s entrails: that’s an adaptation and evolution in eating.

        • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

           I dunno, I still think that’s very primitive behavior. In the wild, which wildebeest will the lion go after, the healthy one or the one that’s injured? Randall was obviously “disabled” by the ropes, which is why the walker went after him. I’ve seen animals in traps that twist about to get out of the trap, so a walker turning a different direction to get to Carl doesn’t seem all that adaptive. As for Rick’s walker pushing away the gun hand, I’m not sure they really cared about the gun, so much as subduing Rick and chomping on him. What I’m saying is that while the walkers may have adaptable hunting skills, I’m still not sure they’re thinking.

          • LondonMarriott

             Perhaps not “thinking” yet, but definitely adapting.  Zombies are single-minded eating machines with no reasoning or strategy.  We’ve seen them slowly starting to solve problems.  Normally they would continue on a straight, forward path to food, but now it almost appears that they’re learning that food fights back, that they can get out of situations by changing their behavior and that it’s smarter to abandon the healthy, running food and go after the wounded, slow food. (weirdest sentence ever)

            Still, I don’t believe the show is going to go in that direction.  The dead may get smarter, but the focus will be on the steadily-dumber living.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

        Lori needs to be homeschooling her boy.

        Better yet, give the job to Andrea. She’s a college girl.

    • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

      I dunno. In a zombie apocalypse I’d probably be first to die because I agreed with Dale and I don’t find him as shrill as TLo does. Retaining our humanity is something we *should* get shrill about. I should’ve known he was walker bait tho after he gave his Emmy Speech about survival of the fittest and how their group would be no better than the others. But where did that walker come from? We’ve established that they move at normal human speed if they’re not maimed, and as I recall, Dale was walking through an open field. Was the walker playing hide and seek? And if it was hiding under the pile of burnt walkers, that implies a level of planning that walkers just aren’t capable of, at least not in the world already established.

      As for Carl, I don’t necessarily think his torment of the walker was cruel, or at least not more than any kid who’s taken a magnifying glass to an ant hill. He was curious about it. Yes, I do think it shows how his character might be warped by this world — after all, the walker was once a human being. All that being said, I did want the walker to bite Carl so we don’t have to listen to Lori and Rick have another conversation about how this world is changing their son. And who lets a child wander around in the woods alone during a zombie apocalypse? Shouldn’t they be trying to educate him or something? Teach him about the generator and how to chop wood, maybe harvesting vegetables or getting the farm ready for winter? There is plenty of work to do on that farm that a 10 year old is capable of doing, but he’s never shown doing any of it.

      I’m not sure how I feel about Randall. I think he’s a lot like Carl in that he might have been a good kid, but this world has tainted him. We can all say that he should’ve left the group after the rape of the girls, but if he’s a teenager who’s never taken care of himself and his family is gone, he might just choose the safety of a group of horrible people who he feels can protect him rather than try to make it on his own when he has no idea how.

      One thing I can’t figure out: Why did Andrea agree with Dale?

      • Caren Tarvin

        It was the Walker Carl tortured.  It was stuck in the marsh, and Otis isn’t rounding them up anymore.  It followed Carl back to the farm, which is new Walker behavior–tracking someone that long implies a more evolved brain function. It killed that cow, and Dale didn’t see him b/c Dale the Lookout never sees walkers until they are right on top of them.

        Or bad writing.  It could just be bad writing.

        • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

          I’ve read some theories that the lone walker in the field Shane saw was the same walker in a suit highlighted during the City of Atlanta episodes. That would be awesome if the zombies were tracking our gang of stupids.

          Or at least very George Romero of this show.

          • Zippypie

             That would be more interesting!

        • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

           Yeah, I knew it was the same walker, but I had so many questions about where it came from in that it ambushed Dale. Is this walker just like Whack a Mole? “Pop! Here I am!”

          You’re right. It’s jsut bad writing.

    • http://naturallyeducational.com/ CandaceApril

      Normally I defend the slower, quieter pace of the showing but I was actually groaning at my set last night: Dear lord, who cares about this guy? Just shoot him already! Someone! Carl, shoot him! Are we going to spend the whole episode on this??? Rick: I’m going to shoot him. It’s decided. Oh, wait. Let’s talk a little more.

      Way to be decisive there!

      And yes, the wandering around without a care in the world is dumb, dumb, dumb.

      Dear lord, would a zombie come eat someone already??? Better yet, maybe an armless redneck will kidnap Carl?

      Oh, look, the magical mud again!

    • mommyca

      Another thing that “surprised” me somehow, was that we never saw their cows before, or for that matter, we never heard their cows before… I guess that should  have given us a clue that somehow the cows were going to be an important part of the plot…. :-) at least now we know where they get their milk, but really? why was the cow out in the open at night?????? 

      • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

         I seem to remember Herschel saying something about the cows breaking down the fence and they were trying to round them up. Maybe this was a straggler.

        • mommyca

          thanks! i missed that! 

      • BigShamu

        Because it looks like they have beef cattle, not dairy cattle.  I don’t remember seeing any Holsteins which do need to be brought into the barn to be milked.  If they are not dairy cows, pasture is where they feed and stay.

        • mommyca

          oh good point! yes, they were brown cows, not the black and white ones…. I guess it makes sense then…. 

      • Zippypie

         I actually felt worse for the cow than for Dale, and that’s a pretty sad commentary on the way the characters are written!

        • Carey Cauthen

          That’s a very normal reaction, actually. They had to take out images of dead/frozen dogs from Titanic because it upset test audiences so much, but the dead/frozen baby and other humans were okay to show. When I saw American Psycho, everyone was entertained by all the humans dying, but when it looked like he might kill a kitten the entire audience went ballistic. The most agonizing thing to me in the Thin Red Line was a wounded bird. It’s normal for us to care about a dying animal on screen but not a dying human, no matter the quality of the writing or the purpose it plays in the plot.

          • BigShamu

            This is absolutely true.  I can’t watch certain movies when I know a fictional animal (FICTIONAL you idiot) is going to die.  Can’t do it.  Fictional humans?  Try and find a movie where someone doesn’t die.  I can’t explain it or defend it, just admit it.

    • http://visceralresponse.com Dina dV

      I wouldn’t say Shane is sociopathic since he doesn’t act without reason or consequence.  He’s still dealing with the guilt from having to kill Otis, but he did it out of what he saw as self-preservation and the greater good. He’s flawed, angry and getting increasingly violent but it’s more a PTSD response than sociopathic. Dale, who was older and never responsible for the well being of the group like Shane was in the early days before Rick came back, was always more focused on what life would be like after the Zombie Apocalypse and who they would be if they didn’t hold onto their humanity now.  

      It’s a compelling argument to be had, but the writers didn’t really work out how to develop either man so that they could make their arguments.

      • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

        Going to the school to get medical supplies was acting without reason. This is the guy who wanted to abandon the search for Sophia on day 2. But then he happily runs off to go get the medical supplies even though it was basically a sucide mission (before, during and after Oatis stepped up to help).

        Shane is about what Shane wants and nothing else.

        • http://visceralresponse.com Dina dV

          Abandoning the search for Sophia after two days was reasonable in their circumstances because at some point it becomes a fool’s errand to assume a little girl lost in the woods full of walkers would somehow magically survive, and it was in the group’s best interest to abandon it and move on, at least that’s how Shane sees it.

          And the school run wasn’t just his idea, they all wanted someone to go get the medical supplies while Rick gave Carl transfusions.  So Shane was put in a difficult position, he didn’t run off on his own. He was faced with what he, and the rest of the group, saw as saving the life of a child they could save.  Otis wasn’t dragged along at gunpoint, he was the one who shot Carl. Did he have to shoot Otis to get out alive and save himself and Carl? I don’t know, but neither does Shane and that was what sparked his initial craziness at the beginning of the season. There was thought to why Shane was acting the way he was acting, and he didn’t just kill people because he has no emotions or enjoys the cruelty.

          I don’t like the character of Shane or the actor who plays him, but it’s because they’re developing him as a two-dimensional character to be the “bad” counterpoint to Rick’s vacillating, wishy-washy “good.”  But if they accepted that everyone one of these characters is flying blind and making decisions that they wouldn’t under normal circumstances, and accept that you need a balance of Shane/Rick to survive and neither is right or wrong, the show would have more resonance.

          As it is, as soon as Rick came back alive, Shane was wrong (even if his instincts are generally right) because he’s “dangerous.”  Rick wasn’t there in the beginning when things were at their worst and no one knew what to do or how to survive, and that rag tag group mostly looked to Shane to tell them how to survive.  His journey to where he is now should have been an interesting one, but instead they reduced him to a stereotype.

          • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

            I never said Oatis was dragged along – I said it was a sucide mission before even steped up to go.

            I’ll have to rewatch but I don’t remember everyone wanting someone to run off and get the supplies. If anything, Lori was the one acting reasonably in that situation. (End of the world, this may be Carl’s chance to go peacefully, etc.)

            As for giving up on Sophia, they were finding evidence that she was still alive (Daryl and the house for example – fresh evidence was found after Shane wanted to give up.) So it didn’t seem foolish to keep looking because the evidence was countering Shane’s arguement.

            Further, none of them wanted to leave the farm except for Shane and frankly, that was completely unreasonable. Its not like Hershel’s family was a threat (they didn’t know about the barn yet) and he wasn’t kicking them off until after they found Sophia. Shane just wanted to be in control and was pissed off that someone else was dicating the group.

            I’ve yet to see where Shane thinks about the consequence. For instance, the barn – did he know how many were in there? No. Did he know they wouldn’t overwheml them? No. He just did it. Another point is Randell – he’s all bent on killing him but why? He has no power, his death wouldn’t prevent his gang from finding them. There’s really no foresight to Shane’s actions other than Shane wants to be the most important person.

            I feel my point still stands – Shane is all “reasonable” when it doesn’t affect someone he cares about.

            • Heather Hayes

               If I remember correctly, they needed something from the medical supplies at the school to finish the operation on Carl safely. 

            • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

              That’s not really what we’re discussing though.

      • Zippypie

        A sociopath often acts with reason and consequence, if it fulfills his agenda.  That’s why so many of them are so damn charming.  What isn’t there is conscience and Shane’s ability to turn off his conscience is what makes him dangerous.  I don’t think he’s dealing with guilt – he’s rationalized that away – done an OJ.  I think he’s terrified and his tough-guy, kill ‘em all attitude is generated from fear.  He makes it out that he’s fearful for Lori and Carl, but honestly, I think he’s terrified for himself.  If you remember his rant about his girlfriend in the very first episode, Shane only gives a shit about Shane.

    • Carey Cauthen

      I think Andrea’s going to take a few steps back from the Shane-ledge and take on Dale’s role as the voice of morality. Hopefully she’ll do a better job at it than Dale did, but that is assuming that the writers can write a moral character (or any female character, for that matter) who doesn’t sound shrill. As someone said on the Talking Dead last night, it’s like Lord of the Flies — Piggy, the voice of reason, has to die, but someone will rise to take his place.

      I found Darryl the most interesting character last night. His bitterness at Rick listening to Shane and not to him took me by surprise. I liked it. I never saw him as particularly caring whether anyone listens to him or not, but it shows that no matter what he may say he still cares about the group and wants it to succeed. The torture was awful and disappointed me, but I suppose he (like Shane) thinks he’s the only one who is really protecting this group. And I find the addition of angel wings to his costume interesting. He did take the role of angel of mercy at the end. This show is never subtle. ;)

      The one thing that frustrates me is the self-fulfilling prophecy that the kid is going to betray them. They rescued him and gave him medical care. That alone likely would have won his allegiance over the group that abandoned him and left him to a gruesome death. If they’d been civil to him he probably would have joined them. Instead they incarcerated him, hauled him around blindfolded in the trunk of a car, threatened to kill him multiple times, and psychologically and physically tortured him. OF COURSE he’s going to betray them — and it is all their own fault. They made him the enemy when he would have been an ally. They reap what they sow.

      • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

         Interesting point about his loyalty to the other group. If it’s true he doesn’t have family there, and they left him to die, he’d be inclined to ally himself with people who took risks to save him. But yes, our group really has done its best to take any loyalty or nice feeling they may have engendered by saving him and grinding it to hell by torturing him. If I was Randall and escaped our group, I’d run directly back to the other group and divulge exactly where Rick, Shane, Lori, et al were and how to take over the farm.

        • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

          Of course – because the show isn’t showing anything form his prespective or logically. Randell could of been a threat or he couldn’t have been a threat. I guess now the show it going to take the easy way out and make him a threat but really, it could of gone either way before they started hauling him around, torturing him, etc.

          TLo is right – all the writers have managed to do so far is make Rick look like an ineffecitve leader, Shane right all the time by chance and Daryl the best leader with no one listening to him.

          I’m as confused – there really feels like there’s no over all arch to this show and they’re just making it up week by week. Logically, it doesn’t make sense for this guy to be loyal to a group that has no family members and left him for dead. Logically, our merry band of idoits should of realized that. Instead, they do the most stupid thing possible and unlucky the writers are here to make them retroactivetly right!

    • SVLynn

      The writing’s ridiculous, but I think it would be a bit easier to watch if the child playing Carl was a better actor, he’s terrible. At this point, Daryl’s the only one with common sense and true survival instnicts, he’s right to go live in the woods by himself, he’s the only one who seems to really have a clue on what they should be doing!! Amazing how they are really making the viewers start the hate the ones they want us to like. Lori is such an idiot!

    • http://twitter.com/pinkwedges10 Pink Wedges

      I agree with you guys. The writers have spent all the season focusing on people that aren’t important. I was expecting someone (cough, Lori, cough) from the group to die in this episode but didn’t expect it to be Dale.

    • CatherineRhodes

      So glad I’m not watching anymore. This show has the stupidest collection of characters ever to appear in prime time. 

    • http://twitter.com/SetMeOnFYYYYAH Miss World

      whatever. Dale was awesome. I loved him and it sucks that they insist on killing off characters that I love/find tolerable amidst a gaggle of people I pray die each week. 

    • http://twitter.com/Goldielox73 Goldie

      There was a blind item back in November about a cast member asking out of their contract because of their loyalty to Frank Darabont.  It was pretty widely assumed that it was Jeffrey DeMunn (Dale) because he’s been in at least five FD productions.  This might explain how shrill the writers made him this season.  They were pissed at the actor.  Doesn’t excuse it in ANY way, just makes them petty.

      I think the sounds the poor cow was making distracted Dale from the sound of the walker behind him until it was too late.  I still wonder where it came from though.  It’s possible, since Dale was stomping off in a snit and not paying attention, that he passed it (just out of the line of sight) on his way to the cow.

      I don’t think Lori expects that Carl needs to be watched closer.  She feels like she’s told him to stay close, in eyesight, and he knows the dangers of the walkers.  Because he’s always been a good kid, she figures he’ll stay close to the house.  But, she isn’t seeing (or is blind to) what’s going on with Carl.  He’s been hit with a lot lately and they haven’t really talked to him about it.  He’s scared and confused and acting out, like kids do.  Now, though, there’s more danger associated with it.

      I’m pretty excited about the next two episodes.  Some dummy at AMC accidentally leaked a HUGE spoiler (I won’t say it here, anyone that REALLY wants to know can google it but don’t say I didn’t warn you) and it should be pretty good.

      • Carey Cauthen

        I think also the scene was a lot darker than what we actually saw, so Dale might have simply not seen the zombie. When Daryl found him and was trying to summon the others, he had to jump and wave his arms and yell so they would know where he was. Because they had to light the scene so we could see what was happening, I think the producers were trying to tell us it was really dark and they just couldn’t show it.

      • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

        Read the spoiler and it doesn’t surprise me tbh. I feel like with this episode espically, they’re pointing to this.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

      Stupid People Surviving – Not just in this TV show.
      Here are other examples from the same genre.
      A Cloud Atlas – David Mitchell – the people in Hawaii aren’t the smartest but they are the healthiest.Oryx & Crake & Year of the Flood – Margaret Atwood – only the geneticists was really smart. A couple of the people had street smarts that that helped them survive in the new world. The rest were kind of dumb.Ready Player One – Ernest Cline – only the boy who played the game and his “friends” and the inventor of the game had any sense and smarts. The rest of the people were meth heads or just watched tv shows all day.

      When I think of more, I might post them here.

      I wouldn’t survive in this world, because running from walkers wouldn’t be enough to keep me from being bored to death.

    • ShivaDiva

      Pretty much spot on.  Now I don’t need to add a rant of solidarity!   Your previous comment also holds, unfortunately:  the habit continues of throwing in five minutes of gripping drama at the very end of the episode, to try and make you forget the other silly and slow forty minutes or so.  In fact, if you strung together the last five minutes of each episode this season, it would make for one helluva better show!

    • Zippypie

      Another episode of blah blah blah, stupid stupid stupid and 7 minutes of something actually happening at the end.

      I couldn’t stand Dale, and I know he’s supposed to be the big moral voice for saving something of civilized behavior, but yes, he has been made to be so annoying, so busybody irritating, that when he was killed, I was all for it.  At least he got ripped open and had his moment of sticking his forehead on Daryl’s gun.  Better than just being eaten, like Otis.

      Look, we spent last week debating the merits of “kill him” vs. “keep him alive” in the Randall story and it was done well, counterpointing Rick and Shane and tying it to their personal conflict.  To rehash that for the entire episode just spoke of “well, we’re out of money bc Mad Men stole our kitty so we have to do another standing around on the farm, talking ad nauseum” episode.  Let’s break out good ole Dale the motormouth again and have him actually walking around the farm, taking a fucking poll on what should happen to a kid who they’ve tortured, threatened and beaten, who would be INSANE to be loyal to them at this point.

      I was pretty angry at this ep.  I usually don’t spare the emotion with this show since we’ve been stuck on the farm all season, but to have a couple of decent episodes where things appear to be changing up and to go back to this talking head crap is about all I can take.  I don’t want an endless zombie fight fest – that’s just as boring – but these characters are stuck in magic mud as much as any walker.  And THAT is boring.  Rick started to change in the Nebraska ep, but has gone back to Mr. Waffle-I-can’t-make-any-decisions.  I can’t believe that I would side with Shane, but in this ep, Shane is right about Rick.  Sometimes you have to roll the hard six, Rick.

      The only exception is Daryl “Mofo” Dixon, who is the only person who is both retaining his decency when it comes to people he cares about (and he does care, no matter what he says) and being ruthless enough to survive in a world that has gone insane.

      Why did Andrea change her mind, all of a sudden?  She doesn’t add support to Dale’s argument, just says “He’s right.”  It didn’t make sense since she was so firmly on the Shane gravy train.  At least have her add her voice to Dale’s.  And now we’ll have her go through yet another series of the guilts because Dale is dead.  Well, if the idiot hadn’t stomped off in a huff, he would be alive.

      On the Carl story, kids get sneaky when they’re acting out and this is one disturbed little guy.  I wasn’t surprised he was defying his parents – look how incredibly stupid and blind the two of them are acting – but the stand-by “wandering off by him/herself” scenario has been done and done and done on this show and I knew the walker would break free.  No surprise there at all.  Carl’s going to be pulling a trigger sooner rather than later and that’s something I hope the writers run with.  If his father can’t make a decision about the safety of the group, Carl will end up doing something that will set it all off.

      You know the farm will be overrun by the “bad” guys and the season will end with Rick’s group being taken by them.  It’s inevitable.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

         I would have loved it if Rick had shot Randall in front of Carl, then turned to Carl and said, Ned Stark style, “I did this because it is my responsibility. This is not something we root for, or enjoy. You need to realize that we have to do ugly things to survive in this world, but it is a horror, not a pleasure.”

        • Zippypie

          I completely agree, Paula, and it would have been more in line with the Rick established at the end of “Nebraska”.  Now, it’s like the events in the bar never happened, regardless of what Rick says about not being “the good guy” anymore.

          I’m tired of the Rick-Shane “who’s a better leader” pissing match.  Rick, sweetie, if you want to lead, you’re going to have to admit you fucked up where Randall is concerned and take care of keeping your group safe.  The thing to do was to leave Randall in the first place.  If you wanted to take his leg off the fence and shoot him in a mercy killing, even better.  But bringing back a person who tried to shoot YOU and your people to your safe haven is moronic and now you have to deal with the mess.

          But of course, he won’t.  He’ll go back to being a “nice guy”, Randall will escape because he knows he’s dead meat if he doesn’t AND he’ll bring back his crew to the farm sure as walkers get stuck in magic mud.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

             Not to mention that Randall basically admitted to being a rapist, and if he gets away, after being tortured, will lead a gang of at least a dozen or so men back to the farm… yeah. A round in the head, a somber speech to Carl, move ON.

            • Zippypie

              Exactly!  When Randall started talking about how “pretty” the teenage girls were, he had this creepy look in his eyes that told he participated in raping them no matter what he said to Daryl.

            • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

              Considering how crappy the writers write women, Randell calling the girls cute may of been their attempt for him to show empathy.

              Often in the media, cute=innoncent when it comes to rape. ie Randell was saying they were so innoncent. Its crappy writing but then again, what else can you expect?

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

               Though Randall talking about the rape at all was another classic moment of stupid. Why mention it? It was just going to scare the farm people more, and make them more determined never to let that band of marauders find them. The stupidity… it burns!

            • http://twitter.com/DC_Lockwood Michelle

              That was another illogical thing I didn’t understand. Last episode Randell seemed willing to tell them whatever they wanted to save himself.

              This episode? They have to torture him to get anything out of him.

              The show needs new writers stat! This isn’t Mad Men, you’re not going to win awards just because people are standing around and talking about deep stuff.

    • ErinnF

      Ahhhhh, RIP Dale. I FOR ONE AM SAD. SAD IN ALL CAPS. :(

      Despite all its flaws, I still love this show madly. 

      • mjude

        i thought the death of dale was extremely sad.  i totally agree with you.

        • jmw1122

          I have to admit, I shed a few tears when it happened. The character was a bit annoying (heck, they’re ALL annoying save Darryl) but I love Jeff DeMunn.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

      The only good part of this episode is the idea that Carl is getting progressively more screwed up. The blowback for his perception (correct perception IMO) that his irresponsible messing around led to Dale’s death should be interesting character development. But it bugged me that he was out of sight of any adult for an extended period, that he would lose a gun and no one would notice, and that he would leave a walker and not tell anyone. It displayed all the egregious stupidity that is making me hate this show.

      • GenXcellent

        Agree, although I don’t think anyone knew Carl had that gun. He took it from the pack attached to the motorcycle.  That being said…I was half expecting (hoping for?) a twist at the end where the zombie had evolved enough use the gun and would use it to shoot Dale. 

    • sockandaphone

      If they were going to kill Dale, at least make it in a manner that makes sense. A little kid half his size was able to escape that same zombie that killed him. And Dale had a gun. AND the freaking zombie was on top of him for a good 2-3 minutes without biting him and just kinda growling in his face. I understand the shock, paralyzing fear factor but still… Dale coulda survived.

      Also Im kinda sad that of all the characters he had to die. I was actually pretty sad. Yeah, he was annoying but he had valid points and he actually didnt spew emotional, nonsensical shit all episode long (Im looking at you, Lori). But I had a gut feeling someone was gonna die either this episode or next.
      Also when did Lori and Shane’s kid become so…diabolic and weird? I missed the transition.

      • http://twitter.com/ennisamy Amy Ennis

        I think because the zombie had just had one hell of a meal, he was stronger than when Carl was throwing rocks at him. 

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3JSTXMWWVZN2QNP2UEKJMTWD7U Isabel

          Muck doesn’t give you much energy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/martha.dollery Martha Dollery

            But a huge cow does…

      • rawrgrowlrawr

        “But I had a gut feeling someone was gonna die either this episode or next.”

        I see what you did there. ;)

    • dickylarue

      I was hoping for Dale to die last night or for someone to just shut him up. His endless harangue was too much to take. He never turned into John Locke vs. Jack. He was just a whiny old man. The problem, I’m afraid, was in his performance. You give that dialogue and role to a more competent actor and it probably doesn’t grate on the audience like it did. All I was thinking while they were deliberating who was going to shoot Dale at the end was “thank God”. 

      This is actually one of my issues with the show right now. I watch Talking Dead and I read of lot of interviews of the cast and such and I think the show creators are falling in love with their actors. They’re playing to feature them in spite of the story. In all the interviews I’ve been hearing/reading, there is incredible praise given to Karl as an actor. How he’s teaching all the adults how to act. I’ve seen similar stuff about Dale. Dale’s character went so far off the rails he turned into an insane unlikable fool. That never should have happened. A good director should have reigned him in as an actor into something less annoying and more heroic in his ideals. Then his death would have meant something other than relief to most of us.

      I’m hoping Karl is the next to go. They do have the Walt issue from Lost with him. He’s going to get bigger/older looking before they complete new seasons. 

      This show is limping towards a hard R version of what this series could be. Men wanting to steal their women for slaves essentially. Other parties with better ammo and weapons. 

      If the show constantly lets them skirt danger it’s weak. We now know the world out there has some very deranged survivors creating their own world order. This group needs to be affected by that in a big hard difficult way for this series to keep credibility ahead. 

      We all know the kid in barn is Ben Linus. Hopefully, they don’t wimp out with him. Now that the “moral voice” of the group in Dale is dead, I hope this means the show is heading to a very dark place. It will up the drama significantly if they have to battle not only the zombies but hordes of men who want to kill them and take their women.

    • MN Bajric

      Gave up on this show when the second half of this season returned… Your recaps tell me I made the right decision

    • http://twitter.com/ennisamy Amy Ennis

      I was completely disappointed in this episode. I thought it was the worst of the season. Had Carl shot Randall or managed to stone the zombie to death, I would have cheered at the writer’s willingness to show some balls. Carl is obviously on the road to killing small animals, so I expect him to kill someone soon. Last night would have been perfect. And if I hear one more argument about keeping our women safe, I’m going to hurl. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jane-Morris/1076502799 Jane Morris

      My problem with Dale was never the writing. I never liked that actor. He had such a cornball delivery.

      This is a show about what happens without a moral compass. So, here we go.

      Somebody on the “Talking Dead” show last night said that Randell was the “Ben Linus” of this show.  Good call.

      • BigShamu

        Too bad.  I’m not sure Lost is the touchstone of logical character development you want to imitate.

    • http://www.facebook.com/martha.dollery Martha Dollery

      I’m shallow and an angry Daryl will keep me happy until next week.

      I do think there was something in what Randall said to Carl, about his people looking after him…? I’ll have to watch it again for an exact quotation but it seemed ominous

    • YoungSally

      Did anyone else notice the wings on the back of Daryl’s vest during the “trial”.  Does he always wear that?  Symbolism, perhaps?

      • http://www.facebook.com/martha.dollery Martha Dollery

        He’s started wearing it for the last 2-3 episodes, but its definitely a new addition to the Daryl Dixon wardrobe. The next episode is called ‘Better Angels’ so I would be surprised if his new outfit wasn’t symbolic somehow.

    • joe_tey83

      They should rename this show The Talking and Wandering Off Living.

    • BookishBren

      “Come season 3, the barn will be converted to a suicide treatment center and every lady who gets the lady vapors can be shipped off there so that Rick and Shane can clench their jaws at each other and argue about what to do with her.”
      Bahahahahaha! Loved it. 

      I have found Dale annoying since the first season but he has REALLY driven me nuts this season. Carl the kid seems to be turning into Creepy Carl and I am okay with that. The adults seem so engrossed in their own lives that little attention is paid to him and he no longer has Sophia to keep him company. Darryl is quite clearly the most level headed male, in my opinion. Loved the conversation with Dale where he says he has always known Shane killed Otis because Shane spun a story about Otis covering him while he made a run for it but Shane came home with his weapon. The writers don’t seem to know what to do with this large cast and several actors seem to have been forgotten (T-Dog). Even Hershel is a shadow of himself. Anyone else find it odd that Hershel handed his heirloom watch off to Glenn? Curious what will happen in the last two episodes, especially after the spoiler posted on the AMC site (dvd flub—-don’t mention any details). I am thinking Carl will play a role in what the spoiler mentioned.

    • DinahR

      Shane must have heard Randall telling Carl “I’ll take you back to my people…”  If they are going to torture Randall… why not get some usable info out of him??  Like *where* are/were his people anyway?  That seemed like the next logical question that Daryl never bothered to ask.  Randall is a native of that area, he should be able to tell them where those folks are at.  Also, why didn’t Shane or even Karl mention that the prisoner promised to bring Karl’s family back to his group?  It would have solidified Shane’s argument.  

      Carl is not just getting twisted by the environment he lives in, he is getting dumber by the minute.  Wandering off into the woods is what got Sophia killed.  Does the boy not remember getting shot in there and almost dying?  Taunting the zombie is sick behavior, which I could understand given Carl’s experiences.  I could understand the boy who just finally got a man’s gun and is fascinated by both guns and zombies shooting one from what he thinks is a safe distance. Going up to it and playing patty-cake, is just stupid.  I assume Karl also went to taunt the prisoner, not out of curiosity.  Same way he taunted Carol.  How is it that no one but Carol sees the changes in this boy??  Oh, that’s right.  Carol and Shane were really the only people parenting Karl for a while now.  

      I liked Dale well enough.  Yes he was a little annoying but I was okay with that.  Basically all these characters are at least a little annoying in one way or another.  He made good points.  

      Also, I am starting to really like Carol.  
       

    • Lola67

      Okay, did anyone else think……oh no, zombie cow!? I liked this episode, and I’ve enjoyed the season. I understand the complaints that the character’s aren’t based in reality, but it’s a zombie apocalypse show, people! Considering some of the other reality tv trash that’s on, I’m enjoying this bit of unreal. There were some turning points in this episode. Daryl had to step in and shoot Dale, in the past Rick would have stepped up and been the leader but he’s falling apart. Lori is losing her identity too, she couldn’t even voice her own opinion what they should do with Randall. She’s all, I need to cook, clean, chastise the other women and leave the important humanity decisions to the big strong men. She would have been much more vocal about it earlier in the season. So, to me this was about shifting roles. The so called leaders don’t know how to act anymore, time for somebody else to step up. It’s a whole new zombie world!

      • DinahR

        I did not just think.  I hoped for zombie cow!

      • SheWhoMustBeObeyed

         At first I really wasn’t sure if the cow was just dying or was going zombie. I really wanted zombie cow. I’m reminded of Man-Eating Cow from The Tick.

    • Glammie

      Didn’t hate the episode, mostly because Dale’s death kind of worked in a way that Sophia’s didn’t.  It meant something to have Dale die–the voice of civilization taken for granted is out.  Everyone else is adapting one way or another.  Dale wasn’t going to.

      That said, the whole world-building is just kind of stupid.  Fact is, there’s not a strong reason for the living humans to go after one another in the way that’s suggested.  There’s no shortage of land and not really a shortage of resources.  What you have is danger–and the way people *survive* in this post-apocalyptic world is *in* groups.   What’s in limited supply are the number of *live* humans.

      As someone above pointed out, they saved Randall’s life after his own people abandoned him, so why would Randall go get the other group–what’s in it for him?  Why, for that matter, if that group roamed, would he even know where they were and *why* would he risk his life to try to find them?  

      This show is so in love with the idea that civilized humans would devolve quickly into savages that they never bothered to think about how “savages” or groups of people living in dangerous environments *actually* behave.  A lot of social interactions the writers think are easily cast-aside niceties are actually ways of being efficient–it’s more *efficient* to set up a trade situation than to kill people.  

      You’ve got billions of zombies around and you’re going to waste manpower and ammo on, say, taking over a farm?  It’s just not practical.  

      You’re a small group that’s lost people and you’re going to kill off an able-bodied young male who’s *also* interested in staying alive and whose odds are better with you than without you?  

      That the writers couldn’t see that Dale would have had some good and strong arguments to make–not just sentimental ones–doesn’t say much about them.  

      • BigShamu

        You’ve articulated exactly what I’ve been wrestling with since watching last night’s episode.  What kind of show is this?  I get the feeling that the producers and the writers would rather go full bore Zombies instead of actually dealing with the Post Apocalyptic aspects of this world they’ve created.  I find that really sad and juvenile but it allows them to boil relationships down to the lowest common denominator and focus their attention onto the gore.  Last night we got an amazing one-handed zombie chest rip.  Really?  Suddenly zombies are super strong?  Especially when we just saw a zombie stuck in the muck for who knows how long. After reading an interview online I learned that the zombie makeup specialist/designer directed last night’s episode.  Okay?  Not a good sign. Perhaps they’d like to give an episode to a fan to direct.  It couldn’t really be any worse.  And apparently things are going in the very dark direction for little Carl.  At this I laugh because I’m sure there will be no actual character development, plot motivation or logic to make this believable in any way but it certainly reinforces your theory of de-evolution the show has nailed it’s hopes to.

        • Glammie

          I’m not huge on straight out-and-out horror myself–if they’re gonna do gorefest zombie stuff, I want funny–like Sean of the Dead or Zombieland.  If not, then they need to think some of this through–make the unbelievable believable by using some sort of logic.

          I’ve said before I don’t know why they don’t head to some sort of island or, say, a boat in a lake.  Zombies have two things going for them–numbers and inexorability.  Live people, though, would have adaptability, speed and brains.  Don’t get, say, not building various forts/castles/moats.  I mean, these idiots have been living in tents?!!  Why?  Why wouldn’t you, say, board up the windows on lower floors and then live higher up, for example.

          I can just think of so many more interesting directions for this to go than this boring old angst.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/XLN2VHDMNCR6U3RQ6HVS2WHUJY Kim

      Why hasn’t anyone asked Randall if he’s seen Darrell’s brother or Rick’s ‘two-way radio’ buddy and son?  or are we going to find out when we ‘meet’ that group of 30?  like Sophia in the barn?

      • fogharty

        That’s a very good point, Kim.

      • http://www.facebook.com/martha.dollery Martha Dollery

        I have such a huge hope that Merle is in the group. I guess no ones asked because I think Ricks forgotten about Morgan, and I don’t think anyone is particularly wanting to see Merle again, maybe not even Daryl.

    • Megan Patterson

      Right? It just doesn’t go there, and I hate that. Also hahahah at “a lady says something ladystupid”. Although I hate the men just as much as the women (except for Glen, most of the time). 

    • http://twitter.com/NostalgiaOD NostalgiaOD

      What pissed me off more than anything with this episode is how Carl just kept going where he wasn’t supposed to, doing what he shouldn’t, acting however he pleased and not a single damn adult decided it might be a good idea to sit on him and teach him to mind himself and his place.  He goes into the barn where they are housing a prisoner, he goes for a walk with a gun, he tries to listen to the debate about Randall, he shows up at the execution, he runs to the commotion with Dale instead of into the house, with the door locked behind him as instructed.  Not ordinarily one for spanking, but this kid needs his hide tanned but good.

      Clearly Rick and Lori should be sterilized because they are doing a terrible, terrible job of keeping an eight-year-old safe and somewhat sheltered, never mind a newborn.  

    • turtleemily

      When Carl wandered off, I thought he was going to get killed by Zombie!Otis.

      Yet another episode where something is talked over for its entirety only to try and redeem itself in the last few minutes.

    • http://twitter.com/ennisamy Amy Ennis

      Someone mentioned a major spoiler and warned us not to look unless we were prepared. I thought I was and I looked. I wish I hadn’t. So, be warned. Be sure you really, really want to know. 

    • http://twitter.com/poptartsjen Pop Tarts Jen

      I was SO hoping that Carl was going to get bitten. Not because I like children to turn into zombies, but just because he’s SO. DAMN. STUPID. Just like his DAMN. STUPID. mother. That would teach ‘em. Plus, SOMETHING truly bad needs to happen to their family. They seem immune, and I hate my characters immune to being killed. Gotta have some fear of imminent death!

      I was glad somebody got killed. They need to either split the party or cull the herd. There are too many people, and then they concentrate on the boring and/or stupid ones. And I was also glad somebody got killed because, as my husband commented when Dale went wandering, after just watching Carl go wandering (with a gun!), they are getting WAY too complacent on the farm.

      Oh, and I need a smart woman on this show STAT!!

    • cornpicker73

      I really enjoyed this episode. I thought it was an interesting twist that the whole thing revolved around debating whether to off Randall or not, and then Dale gets it in the end. I agree he was getting to be shrill and annoying, but I was sad at his death, too. I do wish there was time for some ‘so what’s our plan’ talk. Try for some army fort? an island? a wal-mart? etc. Now I’m also scared of the band of rapists showing up. You know it’ll either be them or a zombie hoard. I wonder what’s going to set the group back on the road again. 

      • cornpicker73

        And don’t forget, a fab wedding on the way! Hershel has given his blessing to Glenn and Maggie! I guess he figured in the apocalypse, the Asian boy was better than nothin’. 

    • http://twitter.com/DaenaCat Daena Ortego

      As a massive fan of the comics, the TV is frustrating beyond belief.  Comic-Dale was great — a sweet, idealistic but flawed guy doing his best while knowing he couldn’t keep up physically with the young’uns.  The TV show’s treatment of the female characters makes me ragey.  In the comics, they’re interesting, detailed characters — some strong, some weak, all flawed but multidimensional.   At this point I’m ready for everyone to just die, except for Daryl.  Make it Daryl Vs Zombies.  I’ll tune in.

    • http://twitter.com/Goldielox73 Goldie

      On The Talking Dead, they said Dale was originally supposed to stumble upon a dead cast member instead of the cow.  One of the producers said he’d tell who after the season ends.

    • megancsu

      Very true.  I couldn’t tell you the last time I cried over a TV or movie human death but the dog death scene in  I Am Legend had me sobbing.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ScottHesterJohnson Scott Hester-Johnson

      Am I the only one who thinks, regarding Carl, “Boy, that’s not your hat”?

    • http://www.facebook.com/ScottHesterJohnson Scott Hester-Johnson

      To paraphrase the old lawyer joke, what do you call a zombie eating Dale? A good start.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1045295912 Charles Purdy

      This how is getting very difficult to love — this episode was extremely boring, with all the back and forth about killing Randall. Last season, I didn’t need to keep a Scrabble game going to keep me entertained during the show. … I feel like most of this show’s tape was of Rick pointing a gun at someone and agonizing. Nothing about this Randall storyline makes any sense; if they just want to lay the groundwork for a rival gang of humans to show up … that was taken care of when they killed the Cajun guy from True Blood.

    • turtleemily

      Carl didn’t seem that upset about Dale being eviscerated until he recognized the walker. I think he might be thinking that they’re all going to end up like walkers and that walkers don’t go to heaven. (Why else would he say that about Sophia?)

    • MattCooper27

      Do zombies have scalpel like nails that they can just open up someone’s stomach like that? I better trim mine lest I eviscerate myself next time I scratch my belly.