Kate Moss for W Magazine

Posted on February 22, 2012

Precious Unborn Fawns, here is your pretty for the day. It’s a weird pretty; a challenging pretty. Many will call it a disturbing pretty and some will declare it not pretty at all. But it’s Kate Moss in W, shot by Steven Klein and wearing outrageous clothes. How could that not be some form of pretty?

The Row’s embroidered silk caftan. VBH Luxury 18k oxidized white gold and diamond necklace; Lorraine Schwartz 18k white gold and black and white diamond ring; Carolina Amato gloves.

Kate Moss featured in the March 2012 issue of W magazine photographed by Steven Klein and styled by Edward Enninful. Hair by Paul Hanlon at Julian Watson Agency. Makeup by Val Garland at Streeters London.

Max Mara’s black wool tweed jacket and black wool tweed skirt. Pam Hogg headpiece; Shaneen Huxham gloves; Miu Miu shoes.

 

Comme des Garçons’ silk satin dress. Paul Hanlon custom headpiece.

 

Oscar de la Renta’s organza crepon top and organza crepon skirt. Ashley Lloyd headpiece; Stephen Jones for Giles headpiece.

 

Atsuko Kudo’s black and white latex dress and black and white latex habit; House of Harlot’s black latex briefs, and hosiery. Balenciaga by Nicolas Ghesquière hat; Céline shoes.

 

Céline’s black viscose top; Lanvin’s black silk crepe skirt. Piers Atkinson custom headpiece; Céline belt; Shaneen Huxham gloves; Alexander McQueen shoes.

 

Rochas’s black satin bodysuit. Paul Hanlon custom headpiece; Shaneen Huxham gloves; Alexander McQueen hand piece; Céline belt and shoes.

 

Louis Vuitton’s silk organza dress. Paul Hanlon custom headpiece.

 

Balenciaga by Nicolas Ghesquière’s black and tan silk and cotton dress; I.D. Sarrieri’s black silk bra and briefs. Balenciaga by Nicolas Ghesquière hat; Shaneen Huxham gloves; Wolford hosiery; Céline shoes.

 

Comme des Garçons’ polyester dress. Cornelia James gloves.

 

Jil Sander’s cotton dress. Ashley Lloyd headpiece; Cornelia James gloves.

 

 

[Photo Credit: Steven Klein for wmagazine.com]

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  • hughman

    Fash Wednesday.

  • http://profiles.google.com/misslauraschultz Laura Schultz

    That last picture is……interesting….

    Very odd and unique set of pictures. Not a Kate Moss fan but I find myself wishing I could take pictures like this…

    • JosephLamour

      She looks just like Lucy Liu in that last one to me. Strange.

  • Ms_Flyover

    Kate Moss looking strung out.  What an original concept. 

  • http://wineandwhiskeygirl.blogspot.com Amanda Semrick

    That sure is some kind of…something.

    Pretty doesn’t exactly spring to mind.

  • cluecat

    Hmmm, so it’s kind of like if a lapsed nun with a taste for BDSM was living at Grey Gardens.  Strange but interesting!  And, Kate Moss – great model, doesn’t age!

    • http://profiles.google.com/ameliaheartsu Amelia Logan

      Ok literally. It freaks me out how much she hasn’t changed over the years. Especially with all the crap she does to her body. Either she has a face cream made of magic or sold her soul.

  • Clueless_Jock

    This is something out of Matthew Barney.

  • schadenfreudelicious

    that last one gives me nothing but “the power of Christ compels you”…..

    • Rrroza

      My thought exactly. 

  • sunandmoon24

    amazing!

  • http://twitter.com/delysia_lafosse Delysia LaFosse

    Wow. A Crucifix Phallus.

  • Terence Ng

    Subtle.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12331205 Aaron Fancey

    The styling and set decoration come very close to cartoonish excess (bidets, really?), but these are still some gorgeous photos.

    • Rrroza

      I assumed they were urinals. And I wonder if this is an actual place (like an abandoned early 20th century sanitarium?) that they dressed to make more gothic

  • Joyce VG

    This is all pretty wow.

  • erinbinek

    This is the most interesting she’s looked in years.

    • filmcricket

       Right? I didn’t know she had it in her to look so … weird.

  • neadsie

    Wow! Those are some incredible pictures. I loave them. I luff them.

    • http://eclectictsunami.blogspot.com/ Cassie

      Hooray for the Annie Hall reference!

      • neadsie

        Thanks. I try to slip one in where I can.

  • http://twitter.com/moijojojo Moira Jones

    Meh. Yolandi Vi$$er from Die Antwoord does this drag better.

    • http://twitter.com/Iluvwinona Jason Galloway

      And Madonna did this same shoot for Meisel a few years ago.  Yolandi is usually wearing a dirty tee or a Pikachu outfit, but still dig the reference ;) 

  • Judy_J

    Oddly, the thing that creeps me out the most is the blood red swan.

  • Sara__B

    Unsettling, unusual, disturbing and a little creepy, but still pretty.  (I keep thinking of an Ingmar Bergman movie shown for my college Western Civilization class in 1970, which means I’m probably missing all sorts of important symbolism.)

    • Daenyx

      I’m getting a whole bucket of mythological references here – Leda and the Swan, the Lady of Shalott (and/or Blodeuwedd)… then the second picture makes me want to say Morrigan/Macha/Nemain, but I can’t quite tell what the birds are, so my brain’s filling in ‘raven.’  The latex nun feels really out of place with this set of interpretations, though.  

      And the first picture is driving me NUTS because I feel like I’m missing a reference with that one.

      • Rrroza

        They look like crows to me (ravens are huge) but they might’ve been going for “raven”. I don’t think they’re all  classical nor pure references. The first one to me suggests Man Ray/Dali/samurai portrait. Wasn’t there an underground comic called Latex Nun? And the last one references The Exorcist, whether the photog wanted to or not. 

  • Amy Ellinger

    My word, she’s good at this.

  • pixieface

    I love how they almost look like illustrations of Kate Moss, rather than photos. Weird, concept-art-y illustrations… of weird mythological fantasy characters. I wonder how they achieved that effect… 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=122613264 Carly Warnock

    She looks to be done up like Swinton.

    • buildmeatower

       I totally got the Swinton vibe too. Definitely makes it better in my book.

  • prettybigkitty

    I don’t get Kate Moss.  She always has the same blank look and slightly parted lips.   In every picture.  Ever.   Never thought she was all that and a bag of chips.

    • JasmineAM

      I was saying the same thing as I scrolled down. Every picture has the same exact face.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sharon-Iverly/1233499903 Sharon Iverly

        Yes, in every picture she looks identical and everyone raves about how versatile she is. Meh.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VA5XLSF3QRELSC3MUFSXLP4EIE rebecca

      THANK YOU! I never, ever got her. She looks like a strung out mouse. She’s rarely been even pretty for me and I am so, so tired of that dead-eyed expression of hers. She always looks bored, boozy or both.

  • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

    Has her nose always looked like that?

  • joe_tey83

    creepy pretty

  • Anathema_Device

    Interesting photos and well shot. I will say, I laughed out loud when I got to the nun-ish crotch-shot one. Subtle.

  • JasmineAM

    She looks like a zombie. 

  • KELLEYKAT

    Have never been a Kate Moss fan.  Same bored face.  Creepy, kind of “Walking Dead” vibe.  But if these same shots had been of Tilda…AHHHH!  

    • BigWhiteGrannyPanties

      yes yes yes yes.  yes.  and again yes.

  • kingderella

    woah, this shit is fierce!

  • http://twitter.com/susiebright Susie Bright

    who cares if it’s “pretty,” it’s awesome and just the right kind of disturbing. Reminds me my dearly beloved “Leather Nun” underground comix in the 70s.  I don’t give a darn which model they use, but Moss certainly carries it off. I like it when she’s all but unrecognizeable. Otherwise you think too much about “her” and her “jeans” her boyfriends, etc. 

  • http://twitter.com/AShinyOConnor Aisling O’Connor

    I love every damn pixel but I am now afraid to close my eyes.

  • sweet_potato

    It’s pretty badass.

  • http://twitter.com/AShinyOConnor Aisling O’Connor

    ADR wore that Stephen Jones blood swan hat.

  • MK03

    Ohgodohgodohgod spiders all over her face I can’t even

  • http://eclectictsunami.blogspot.com/ Cassie

    Some of the photos & props border on a little silly/cartoonish, but my girl Kate is SERVING. IT. UP. I adore her. And the photography is pretty damn fab, too.

    • Caroline2

       It doesn’t do it for me, at all.  Yes, she’s a beautiful woman, and mor to the point a top-notch model.  Wearing odd things, stylized in bizarre ways.  If I hadn’t happened to recognize the Luis Vuitton Cate Blanchett wore to a store opening some time back (yes, I’m not dreaming this, am 1?) it would have been a complete yawn.

      Beautiful model doing her thing in an odd way … wake me late

  • SouthernGirlRena

    You have to have a really thick skin to be catholic these days.  Everyone seems to be going out of their way to offend them lately which makes many of these seem like they are jumping on an already-full bandwagon.  I will give them weird challenging disturbing pretty though.

    • http://eclectictsunami.blogspot.com/ Cassie

      It also contains some of the most instantly recognizable iconography in the Western world.

      • Mefein

        And using that iconography in disturbing and/or highly sexual ways isn’t exactly an entirely modern thing either.  It accounts for a good part of Western art!

    • adnama79

       I thought it was more about the Madonna-Whore dichotomy and female gender stereotypes than about perverting Catholicism.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

         So the latex nun suit didn’t tip you off then?

        • adnama79

          I interpreted the intent of the photos differently from you.  That’s not a very good reason to be sarcastic and rude in response.

  • Thundar99

    In the words of Patsy Stone….”IT’S FABULOUS!”

  • Gayer_Than_Thou

    Pic of the Comme des Garçons dress makes me think of Frida Kahlo.  Also, I do not like Kate Moss’s lips.

  • JDreesen

    [barreling suspenseful overture]

    “THIS SUMMER….”

    [staccato string plucks and humming choirs]

    “…FROM THE PRODUCERS OF EVERYTHING ROB SCHNEIDER HAS EVER BEEN IN WHERE HE IS TURNED INTO SOMETHING ELSE…”

    [crescendos and images of birds flying off telephone wires in a frenzy as children scream in horror]

    “…KATE. MOSS. IS….”

    [drumroll to full orchestra of madness]

    “…A SOFA.”

  • michelle shields

     House of Harlot’s black latex briefs, and hosiery…love the fashion house name!

  • kimmeister

    Eek, the bugs on the face reminds me too much of the LA teacher who just got busted for doing wacko things to his students . . .

  • http://twitter.com/ohmybears48 Michelle Argento

    I am more concerned for the designer who “designed” the latex nun costume. 

  • http://twitter.com/neri_peri Nerisa

    The Lady Gaga catalogue. 

    • fallen_ikon

      That was my thought exactly..I bet Lady Gaga has already ordered one of everything in here.

  • https://profiles.google.com/104791269167429064986/ Judy S

    After trying to see Miss Havisham in the Marc Jacobs collection (i.e. HBC + Dickens +) I find her here. Grotesquely joyless.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_F73LIJ3SJGI5AJQMXMWXCKILHI Pamela

    Oh, it’s pretty alright-pretty f*ckin’ bizarro!  Some of them are downright UN-pretty, as in ugly.

  • Lisa

    Yeah, not digging these.  Confusing and not all that pretty.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nicole-Walraven/527225623 Nicole Walraven

    a. maze. ing.
    what a unique set of pictures, totally draws me in and takes my mind to interesting places.
    LOVE the latex nun.

  • http://twitter.com/aStudiobytheSea a Studio by the Sea

    Ever been to a SF convention?  A lot of this feels like cgi/digital art haphazardly put together.  Not impressed.

  • http://asskickingadviser.com/ Ass Kicking Adviser

    Wow. You gotta’ give ‘em points for originality. Jeepers Creepers!

  • serenitynow02

    It’s not nice to give your precious unborn fawns nightmares. Yuck.

  • butter nut

    looooooooooooooooooooooooove………

  • minnye

    The wheelchair picture is perfection.

  • http://profiles.google.com/phyllis.craine Phyllis Craine

    Sorry I know that hat is modeled after Cristobal Balenciaga’s 1967 wedding gown but all I can see is Darth Vader.

  • http://twitter.com/LOfficielEbony TheVeryLivingEND

    Oh, this is a Lady Gaga lookbook.

  • siriuslover

    The first one she looks like the first Ming Emperor with that pose. The middle set look like they were shot in an insane asylum, the last couple were creepy….those eyes in the last picture are just freaky (read: scaring the bejesus out of me!).

  • http://tigergray.blogspot.com/ Tiger Gray

    Nice Exorcist reference. (well, it’s what I thought of anyway)

  • http://profiles.google.com/marteani Barbara Guttman

    I am fascinated by most of these shots…except…

    Personal pet peeve: CLOSE. YOUR. MOUTH.

  • BrightsideSusan

    I just kept thinking same face, wrinkled clothes, crotch shots, what’s new about latex and lace  and why are they making her look like a corpse? 

  • BigWhiteGrannyPanties

    Someone hasn’t gotten over his fear and love and hate for Sister Maria Gaudia.  Just saying. 

  • formerlyAnon

    I enjoyed these, the best were Gorey-esque, in a Gorey dreamscape.

    But I don’t think they’re having the proper impact when I start thinking what a long uncomfortable time the hair, styling and staging must have taken.

  • http://profiles.google.com/fade131 Fade 131

    Interesting pretty, definitely
    Love the second picture the most.

  • granddelusion

    Interesting, perhaps, possibly even intriguing, but not pretty. Kate’s crotch? Definitely not pretty. Just overdone.

  • granddelusion

    And a nun defiling a crucifix hasnt been provacative in decades. Shades of exorcist.

  • filmcricket

    If you told me Trent Reznor had styled this about 15 years ago, I’d believe you.

  • NCDFan

    Not pretty. Not the photos, not the fashions and not even Kate Moss. The photos look computer generated. I see no art.

  • lrhoff

    This is fantastic — artistic, beautiful, and so much more.  Thank you.

  • ammjam

    They ARE pretty.  They have a very chilly sense to them.  Sure,they may be a bit odd and unlikely, but the processing on these photos is so freaking gorgeous that I just want to distill the beauty into a serum and drink it.   

    Also, can you please be my Kindly Gay Uncles?  I really need some. 

    XO forever.

  • Emily Scott

    These are AMAZING.

  • another_laura

    I like it.  It’s weird and wonderful.   

  • PeaceBang

    I love the Grimms Fairy Tales magical fairy weirdness element of them, and some of the clothes are stunning. I will definitely have to take these one at a time and savor, but here’s the thing: Kate’s teeth look stinking and grody even when one can’t actually see them. She just looks unclean. And I’ve seen enough of her crotch to last several lifetimes. Latex Crotch and Fairy Dreamscape really don’t make for a good artistic pairing.

  • Qitkat

    This is so bizarre and I’m so creeped out, I may have nightmares. This shoot seems like someone else’s nightmare. And I’m oddly fascinated by the blue-grey tint (excuse me, platinum and pearl) to most of the photographs. I haven’t even studied the fashion. I don’t know who Will Self is, but he waxes so poetically about the charisma of Kate Moss that I thought I was reading a nineteenth century romance novel. Bullshit good sir, bullshit.

  • Markatha

    I’m not sure Pretty is the word that comes to mind.  The urinals are breath-taking however.

  • Jecca2244

    I left this on the floor of my walk in closet and walked in the other day without the light on, looked down and nearly had a heart attack. Scary and vulgar. but at least it is better than the awful March Vogue. lots of crappy articles and mediocre art.

  • mommyca

    some of the pics can be used for The Walking Dead promos….. 

  • SewingSiren

    I want to see one with her head on backward. And maybe some pea soup puke. Fun!

  • quiltrx

    I would call it a Trent Reznor sort of pretty.  And I mean that in a good way (though the spiders were too much LOL).

    And, as an avid swan collector, I demand that someone go hunt up that blood-red-and-bejewelled delight for my collection!

  • bloggertobenamedlater

    It’s all a bit icky, but I just want to own some piece of clothing from House of Harlot. The name rocks. I drew the line at the latex habit. I can feel the chafing leap off the page.

    • pokokpuding

       The name does rock. But “black latex briefs” is just fucking with my head.

      • formerlyAnon

        Call me pedestrian, but ‘yeast infection’ just jumps out at me from the words “black latex briefs.”

  • Cousin_Rose

    Pretty weird. Pretty disturbing. Not pretty.

  • howdoilook

    God, the textures are incredible in these shots. Beautiful.

  • Gail Kwak

    Pretty in a necrophiliac kind of way.

  • Peeve

    Weirdly pretty, but the first pic makes me itch.

  • VioletFem

    Wonderfully creepy. I love it. Also, House of Harlot has to be the best name for a clothing designing company I have ever heard.

  • pippitypup

    For once they’ve found some clothes that match her dead eyes.

    Also, FYI Fashion: The cross thing is so played out. If you want to be edgy, play with a Koran.

    • http://twitter.com/Nancer Nancer

       Ooh… fatwah, anyone? Anyone?

  • umeboshi

    stunning and creepy. why the hell did i look at this before bedtime?

  • bitchfacela

    Oh Wow. 

  • bitchfacela

    Kate’s eye !!!!!!!!!!!

  • bitchfacela

    Wow !! (still amazed.)

  • http://twitter.com/rgmx Mercy

    Pretty, no.  Fanfucingtastica, more like.  Might need to buy this rag and put the pics up all ova…

  • LesYeuxHiboux

    That is some Narnia White Witch badassery.

  • ccm800

    some really shitty photo processing. 

  • texashistorian

     I like the concept, just wished the photos didn’t look as if they were pasted together from two different shoots (i.e., Moss & background). But, maybe they were, because she may have not wanted to have photos taken in an abandoned insane asylum. Love the mood of the 2nd photo; the last one is very cliche.

  • http://twitter.com/yankeefoxtrot Alex McGeagh

    These photos are so egregiously oversharpened as to be gimmicky. This would be cool and representative of Steven Klein’s style (see: Alejandro, and Gaga, Lady) if they were not so horrifically overprocessed.

  • Bozhi

    It looks like some weird horror film.  I’m trying to look at the clothes, but they are not really showing the clothes.

  • pdquick

    I would totally wear that.

  • holdmewhileimnaked

    this i really love too. probably more than most people do.
    yes i’ve seen it before. of course. but it doesnt matter much cos this is done differently & it’s done well.
    one of the best editorials you’ve had in a while. graceful, gracious, fascinating.
    & tired, here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=27432316 Ally Monge

    I am really liking photos 1-4 and 7 & 8… the latex nuns are okay. but she looks so much like one of the nuns from sound of music from the abbey but is S&M wear that I had to laugh. Love her face in the first shot… pretty fierce. SOmetimies I too think KM comes across as blank, but I think she werq-ed it here. LOVE the shots with the cob webby head pieces and the horns

  • Basil Von Broccoli

    Ugh, I haaaate the post-processing on these. They’d be such fantastic photos without the fakey HDR filters thrown on top of them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jessica-Charlotte-Siewierkiewicz/503556621 Jessica Charlotte Siewierkiewi

    It’s kind of gothic, isn’t it? Especially the second, ‘Quoth the raven ”Nevermore!”’, picture.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HG726N6L5QJS3BH7XFVKRKKH7Q Nico

    I want that nun outfit yo.

    also, have i watched too much top model or something?? she has the same expression in every picture, but I guess that’s not a bad thing in the real modeling world, hmm??

  • miwome

    I agree the dildo cross is overplayed, but other than that I LOVE these photos. Bondage Pilgrim is fine by me, and I love the atmosphere of decay.

  • RzYoung

    Oooo interesting, getting a Swinton vibe off it all 

  • EverybodysStarling

    These pictures have something pretty – but I`m sorry, the first one looks as if she is either having a baby or is sitting on the toilet. 

  • NasserShaheen

    Latex habits are so 2008.

  • StrandedFashionista

    What I find interesting is that, when you look up the clothes in their original runway context, they’re all very- well- pretty and safe (even the Comme.) The power of styling to change the context of clothes is astounding. This is an amazing editorial. 

  • bluefish

    Shades of Miss Haversham!

  • http://twitter.com/arodenha Alli

    Love love love. Especially the horn picture.

  • afabulous50

    Love the play on the nun…how interesting this was posted on Ash Wednesday.

  • http://profiles.google.com/mercbubble42 Jessica O’Connell

    …Disturbing pretty seems about right…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jessica-TallGirl-Freeman/1043623567 Jessica TallGirl Freeman

    Not a fan of Kate Moss, but kudos to her for pulling this off.  Whatever “this” is. 

  • Pants_are_a_must

    Somewhere, there’s a Victorian taxidermy fetish group having a circle jerk over those photos.

    • formerlyAnon

      I really didn’t expect to get a snort of laughter out of the comments on this editorial.

  • http://profiles.google.com/dorothymichael Dorothy & Michael n/a

    The G.D. birds creep me out more than Ms. Moss’s facial expressions, or lack thereof.

  • MrsBug

    I’m sure I’ll be stoned as a heretic, but I don’t get the attraction and adulation of her.

  • http://twitter.com/Nancer Nancer

    Wow, trying to figure out the concept at work. I seem to see some Grimm fairy tales mixed with Nazi nuns, Miss Havisham, sleeping beauty, swan lake on crack… can someone help me out? Any idea what the concept behind this shoot was? Which, by the way, I find beautiful and creepy all at the same time! 

  • Cathy S

    I’m not crazy about it, and I’m an atheist but I find that latex habit photo really nasty.

  • cam_lo

    I could do without the spiders on her neck, but other than that, werq.

  • VicksieDo

    horror movie chic?  HATE IT ALL

  • http://opinionandamovie.blogspot.com/ Deitra S.

    Pre Raphaelite-Goth meets Ophelia-Iconography pretty – I LOVE IT!!!

  • sherrietee

    It’s interesting.  I’d like it more if she’d actually shut.her.mouth.  What is up with the drooping mouth all the damned time?  It’s not sexy.  It looks like she’s about to start drooling.

  • http://www.facebook.com/charlotte.horseman Charlotte Horseman

    Huh.. nope.  No kind of pretty for me today. 

  • Synnamin

    Like the concept, hate the execution. Looks like someone set an undergrad intern loose with the Photoshop filters.

  • Pterodactyl111

    Meh. 

  • Pterodactyl111

    Meh. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Micaela-Cannon/1465504041 Micaela Cannon

    Oh, so there IS a reason Kate Moss is an internationally famous supermodel.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Micaela-Cannon/1465504041 Micaela Cannon

    Oh, so there IS a reason Kate Moss is an internationally famous supermodel.

  • TheOtherChristina

    Okay, the enormous ants made me wary, but nothing after that gave me the wig. I quite like it, actually. I do love a good crazy headpiece.

    The religious imagery seems a bit ham-handed though.

  • PrunellaV

    There’s something medieval about her looks. Like a Van Eyck madonna painting.

  • sleah_in_norcal

    i was totally into it until i saw the urinals. ewewew dirty urinals skeeve me out.  can’t even think about them.  now i can’t think of anything else.

  • KathKo

    Girl still has it.
    She’s still too skinny for her own good, but she looks amazing there.

  • PastryGoddess

    I was looking at the composition of the pics more than the pics themselves.  Meh….

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=515341384 Julieta Felix

    Ale, Alejandro… Ale, Alejandrooo

  • aristida_girl

    So Cool!

  • Vickiefantastico

    I really wish I could unsee…Being offensive just to be offensive is unoriginal and obnoxious.

  • http://kittysdrawings.com Esz

    EXTREMELY weird – but it shows Kate’s still got it. It’s very alien and ugly – she looks unworldly. I think it’s mostly the post processing and extreme HDR camera effects but it’s still pretty neat. Good stuff

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=601016544 Amy J Albin

    I love them all… I just wish she varied  her expression a bit more.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2P2ANLRZ6YAVGONA36I2AQJYGI VicD

    I absolutely despise her, but – I have to admit – that is an arresting spread.

    Oops, did I just say “arresting” about Kate Moss?   Arrested is more her style.

  • CherrieH

    My issue of W came today (slow mail?) and I have to say these photos look a lot better online than in print.