Mashoff

Posted on November 16, 2011

Glee has a problem with bullying.

We don’t mean “has a problem” in the “doesn’t like it and wants to confront it” it sense, although the show is desperate for you to see it that way. No, we mean Glee has a problem with bullying in that they want to appear as the stalwarts in the fight against teen bullying except they’ve used bullying as a source of comedy since the show began. Put more bluntly (and in a more damning manner): Glee thinks bullying is hilarious until someone bullies a gay character.

This was always the case with this show. It was hilarious to throw Kurt into a dumpster in the first episode because he hadn’t identified as gay yet (even if it was ridiculously obvious to anyone with a head). It continued to be hilarious to throw Slushees in his face and call him demeaning nicknames all through most of the first season. Then Kurt came out of the closet and nary an unkind word or action was allowed against his person. To be fair, the point Glee clumsily tried to make last season with the Kurt storyline was that the bullying from Karofsky had taken a decidedly darker and potentially more violent turn, which made it a bit more dangerous than a Slushee or even a slur. Fine. It was badly handled, but we understood what they were trying to do. But with Santana, we have a character who has gradually become harsher and harsher to the people around her and by the time she dropped that Sue Sylvester-esque insult bomb on Finn in the hallway, we found ourselves in the curious position of cheering Finn on for using her own self-loathing over her sexuality as a defense against her.

We don’t think there was anything remotely bad about what Finn said to Santana. Can we just stop here and say how weird it is that the gays at McKinley keep needling Finn until he lashes out and hurts them? Couldn’t the writers have come up with a different foil for Santana? It’s almost making Finn look anti-gay as a character and we doubt that was the intent. But Santana surely deserved to be taken to task by Finn and he was completely dead-on to point out that all her anger and ugliness was coming from a place of self-loathing. It’s been fairly clear for some time now that the school knows about Santana, so we don’t actually consider what Finn did “outing” her.

No, what bothers us is that right up until the moment Finn dropped the L Word on her, all of Santana’s nastiness was treated like a joke. And to be fair, she does get some incredibly funny lines. But it’s a poor way to discuss bullying to have your victim be a bully herself and expect the audience to feel for her when a tiny little bit of what she’s been dishing out to everyone around her finally lands back on her. That final musical number was devastating, and Naya Rivera played her emotional turmoil beautifully, but it’s a little hard – even as gay people ourselves – to not think that she deserved some sort of blowback for the way she treats everyone. Should she be outed in a political ad? Of course not. But we’ll be mighty pissed if Finn is forced to beg forgiveness for what happened to her.

And did anyone else think Kurt’s campaign pledge to ban dodgeball was supposed to be a joke until you realized they were playing it, you’ll pardon the term, straight? We don’t know, maybe dodgeball is a scourge across the land, but the preachy seriousness with which that scene was played illustrates perfectly how the message-oriented storytelling for the gay characters on this show tends to pretty much ruin them. Where’s the sassy, stylish, biting kid from the first season? Who is this prissy, preachy, humorless person in clothes so ridiculous they border on drag? If Santana’s arc followed Kurt’s exactly, she’ll be in flannel and birkenstocks before graduation, have no sense of humor about anything, and will constantly lecture everyone around her in a faux-tired, faux-wounded tone of voice. Bleh. We want to see them tackle the gay kid stuff because they’re in such a uniquely perfect position to do so, but we wish they’d lighten the fuck up a bit. Teen bullying is a very serious problem, no doubt about it. But anti-gay teen bullying is where the show tends to work against itself, going from biting social commentary to preachy message-oriented storytelling without ever once stopping to consider how uneven they’re being on the whole thing.

What else happened? Oh, right. “Hot for Teacher.” Who didn’t see that number (and plotline) coming? Bored now  – but the number was great. The other numbers in between the great opening and great closing, however, were lame as hell. We suppose the Hall & Oates mashup was meant to illustrate how dorky New Directions is compared to the Troubletones, but it was played so straight we’re not sure that was the intent. In addition, the Blondie/Pat Benatar mashup, while inspired, also didn’t come off as well as it could have.

And finally, we’re disappointed with how the whole Sue candidacy is playing out. Those attack ads against Burt were ridiculous – and not in a very good way. We live in an extremely divided, politically ugly period right now in America and Glee could have had a lot of fun parodying the campaign and electoral process as we know it. Instead, we got these ads that were so far out of the bounds of reality that they became essentially meaningless. Yes, attack ads are terrible things and ripe for parody, but “Burt Hummel married a donkey” is Saturday morning cartoon-style comedy. It’s so off-base that it fails as parody and yet another grand opportunity gets wasted by the writers.

We sound like we hated the episode. We didn’t. We just get annoyed with the constant missed opportunities or seizure-inducing tonal shifts. The scripts are still tighter now than they were a year ago, but the show is probably always going to have a problem straddling that line between cynicism and earnestness.

 

    • http://twitter.com/anovelgirl J. Watt

      I stopped watching this show after the first episode of the season, and don’t plan on going back, but a friend send me the Rumor Has It/Someone Like You mash-up, and it was pretty cute.

    • Anonymous

      The most irritating aspect for me is the confusion between “Irish” and “stupid”…Irish people know what Dodgeball is..and trash talk…oy vey.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XB3MVZPDY5V3KQ6AO7ED7QU5WI Carey

        Having been raised in an Irish household, I’m relatively certain that Irish people invented trash talk ;).

    • http://twitter.com/ChipsterTM Chipster TM

      But did the whole school know about Santana? At the very least, Finn outed her to at least one person, the niece of that pizza candidate. I think Santana can be a horrible character sometimes, but she totally did not deserve to be outed by him. Nobody deserves that! Also, the Adele mashup was the most amazing thing ever!

      • Sobaika Mirza

        So it’s okay to bring up one’s physical appearance but not their sexuality? I’m not defending either character’s choices, but Finn was saying something Santana needed to hear. It’s a really awkward corner the show has forced itself into.

        • http://twitter.com/wednesdaydreams Natalie

          It’s an awkward corner that the show forced themselves into, but it still I don’t like the way people are making it look as if we’re supposed to choose between Santana and Finn and that Santana being hurtful somehow makes it okay for Finn to use her sexuality against her. So the only people with the rights to come out are the ones who are nice and polite?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Z3SXOBBI3RZ4NPJ3CTJ5L4YRNA Smolensky

             Only those who do not terrorize other people by hurting THEM where it hurts the most. When you keep beating someone, eventually they will punch back. Are the only people who do not deserve to be beaten the ones who do not start fights? Yeah.

            • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

              Agree.

              Yeah, there’s a way to fight fair, and this certainly wasn’t it.  Then again, when I brought up the rumors about penis size when dealing with a guy who had been bullying me for 10 years in high school (I went to a small school, where you had the same kids around from kindergarten on), that wasn’t precisely fair either.  But it worked.

              When dealing with a bully, you can’t just fight to win THAT fight.  You have to fight to win EVERY fight with that one — making it hurt enough that they don’t pick another one and another one and another one.

          • Terence Ng

            Obviously they’re both wrong, but if the show left Santana untouched, it’d be really hard to not view the episode as condoning Santana’s brand of bullying but putting her sexuality on a pedestal. I think this levels the playing ground and should expose how bullying someone because of their weight or telling them to “disappear” is no better than using someone’s sexuality against them.

            • Anonymous

              I haven’t watched South Park in years, but I caught an episode two weeks ago. Cartman, after hurling his typical brand of antisemitic, anti-poor slurs at his friends is shocked, appalled, and taken aback when someone retaliates and calls him “fat.”

              “You had to go there,” says Cartman.

              It’s not desirable, it’s not noble, but sometimes you do have to hit a bully where it hurts him or her.  They’re often so stupid or well-defended that they don’t understand the pain they’re causing.

      • Anonymous

        I thought in the first season, Santana was open about making out with Brittany. But it was in more of a “guys think girls making out is hot” way. School mates probably didn’t give it a second thought because Santana was all about sex all the time. I thought the message back then was that it is okay and even “hot” for girls to experiment but it isn’t for guys. Now that it turns out she is really gay, it is a whole other story.

        Did that make sense, or do I need more tea before trying to express myself in writing?

        • Anonymous

          that totally makes sense.  and you can have another cuppa’ if you like.  santana is my second favorite character, after brittany, but then i love biting satire.  their relationship is so complex it’s fascinating.  my all time favorite glee line:  after brittany’s assertion that kissing a girl doesn’t count, arty says “can’t you see she’s manipulating you?” and brittany says “santana says that’s not cheating either”.

        • http://inkblotphotography.blogspot.com/ Cate

          No that’s how I read it too, which i swhy i was surprised when finn said everyone already knew. i mean, brittana has been a thing since season 1, but santana only came out to herself and the club last season. i never thought that it was a school wide “i’m gay now” thing like with kurt.

        • Anonymous

          She was also open about sleeping with Brittany.

        • Anonymous

          It comes across to me like the writers of Glee don’t believe in bisexuality, so when they are talking about Brittany and Santana’s relationship they kept playing it as a joke. Then when they got complaints about that, they decided to take it seriously, and since they don’t think bisexuality is real (and thus think it’s a joke by default), the “serious” answer is to make Santana a lesbian. It’s annoying.

    • Anonymous

       True, Santana was not holding back with the insults, but still, I don’t think it was Finn’s position or right to use that delicate part of her as retaliation.

      • Anonymous

        I really don’t tghink it was done as an “outing”, rather he was frustrated and trying to get her to see where her pain is coming from and deal with that.  the fact that he directed the comment to HER and not to others behind her back is telling here.

        • http://www.facebook.com/Wmueller88 Warren Mueller

          In the middle of a crowded hallway = outing.

          • Anonymous

            Every other serious conversation in that school happens in the middle of the hallway. Somehow, no one’s ever overheard anything until now.

            • Anonymous

              Yeah, this. Santana confessed her love for Brittany at their lockers. Karofsky apologized to Kurt and broke down in tears in front of a classroom *into which people were walking at the time* and no one noticed. I agree that Finn outed Santana, but the scene was just another tiny instance of the infuriating inconsistencies on this show.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3RGMKQVFOIEM2EK4JPK3HXVVDU Nicolette

              Agreed. 

              And I really hate how everyone thinks that what Finn said was awful. It wasn’t. He didn’t say anything mean or demeaning about Santana or even about her sexual orientation. Unlike Santana who completely trashes Finn. And because Santana is a gay girl we’re supposed to give her a free pass? How does that make any sense? The show always tries to play Finn as a cool kid or the leader but Finn has ALWAYS been a victim of bullying just as much as Rachel or any other original Glee kid. So how can we feel bad for Santana when she has done SOOOO much bullying while Finn has almost always been the victim?

            • http://coyoterose.blogspot.com Coyote Rose

              Didn’t Brittany out Santana accidentally on her TV show last year? Saying something like “one member of New directions is playing for the other team?” Am I crazy?

            • http://twitter.com/crush_onyou crush on you

              Yeah she did. And not only that; there was also a note about it on their newspaper, on the ‘rumours’ episode last season. So I do think that the whole school either already knew, or at least had a hunch.

            • Anonymous

              I read this comment on the Troubletones’ mash-up in youtube (which by the way, is one of the strongest performances in the entire series), and I think it summarizes what I think about this issue:

              “I’m not justifying Santana’s bullying. Although, to be honest, most of
              her insults are outrageous so you know it’s not that true. But outing
              someone has worse consequences. I’ve been posting comments like this
              over and over again, because people don’t know how bad it is to be
              outed. I know people who’ve both been bullied about weight and were
              outed, and they told me that being outed is a whole lot worse. Yay for
              Kurt- he’s out and proud. But Santana wasn’t ready yet.” Youtube username “Hasmtan”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=811053804 Stacy Parker Cole

        You did attend high school, right? That’s *totally* high school. 

    • http://twitter.com/Sara1Babe Sarah Archer

      Thank you! for not giving Santana a pass. 

    • Sobaika Mirza

      This was an uncomfortable episode, for the very reasons you articulated. I’m reminded of a Season 2 scene where Kurt said Sue was bullying him, and she agreed to call him ‘Porcelain’ instead of ‘Ladyboy.’ Glee’s scripts may be more focused, but vaulting between snarky and preachy has been an issue for a long time.

    • Anonymous

      As a 47 year old gay man who came out not just once iin life but recanted, married and then did it again, I can tell you: there is no “one size fits all” answer to how and when a person should or can go public with who they are.  Face it, as funny as her character can be, Santana is a slutty bitch who has been agressively mean to averyone around her at one point or another.  Finn’s going off on her was not unexpected or over the top and i don’t think he had the intent of outing her publicly, just trying to get her to see where her pain was really coming from.
      That said, I am alomist completely over this show.  It is absurdly uneven in how it handles serious issues.  there is now way in hell they could get away with this Shelby/Puck storyline if the genders were reversed.  It is appalling how they are trivializing sexual miscuonduct by an educational authority figure, especially in light of the Penn State fiasco.  Really, they need to step back and rethink that whole line.

      • Pinup Ghoul

        I agree… the fact that the show is playing up the (inevitable) romance between Puck and Shelby is kind of revolting. Not only could it get both of them in huge trouble, but it would seriously call into question Shelby’s suitability as a mother if it ever went public.

        So: Puck and Shelby will hook up, Quinn will find out and take it public (probably with Sue’s help), and a huge media storm will erupt. Shelby will be fired, and Quinn will be one half-step away from getting Beth back, until a character makes/sings a true-to-life point that shows her the error of her ways, and she’ll rescind and say that she lied about the whole thing. No one will learn anything, and it will still be really gross.

        • Anonymous

          while i agree that the teacher/kid thing is kinda gross, especially if you reverse the genders, in my world of sarcasm nothing is out of bounds.  but it has to be done well- in this case, not so much.  anyway as the scenario which pinup ghoul describes unfolds, glee will have yet another moral issue to flog to death.

      • Kristen Williamson

        Aside from maybe Sue, Santana is the biggest bully on the show by far; it’s gotten to the point where I struggle to like a character I used to find clever and entertaining. She doesn’t deserve the media slew she’s going to get, but she definitely deserved to get back a fraction of what she was dishing out. I agree that Finn didn’t seem to have the intention of outing her, and considering Santana calls Rory ‘potato’ and relentlessly bashes people’s physical appearances, I have zero sympathy for her vis-a-vis the Finn issue. 

        Finn was trying to be the better person, Santana was trying to be a bitch. You reap what you sow, and considering how when Rachel does inconsiderate things, she always gets it right back at her, I cannot fathom why Santana is untouchable.

        And 100% agreed on the teacher/student thing. It’s gross, and its done to death. And it’s frustrating that one of the few responsible adults can’t avoid being disgusting.

      • http://twitter.com/MidnightHarlow Jackdee Baptiste

        Scandal or not, there is still no way Quinn would get custody of Beth. She signed away her parental rights! So, even if child protected services took Beth away, Quinn has no claim to her. What made her think this plan would work?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713709401 Randy Noak

        I felt that way the first season when they had Kristin Chenowith walking out of the boy’s lockerroom showers wearing nothing but a towel and a smile. Really, Glee? We’re supposed to believe that perky Kristin Chenowith was just gangbanged by the football team?

      • http://inkblotphotography.blogspot.com/ Cate

        THIS! i’m actually really upset about the shelby puck thing. even though, she has told him no, and i understand that because of beth it’s a delicate situation, i don’t think she’s being forceful enough in making it clear that he and her are NOT happening. she needs to CRUSH that dream. right away.

    • MilaXX

      Kurt looked a mess last night. That turban? Really show? I can speak for everyone, but growing up dodgeball was like boxing. The point was to hurt each, not another way to bully.  Santana’s outing makes no sense & why was Brittany not included in that?  I also hared Rachel’s dropping out of the student president race and conceding to Kurt. It felt condescending.

    • Sarah Dickerson

      I must be in the minority here, but I didn’t get the impression that they were making Finn out to be a villain, or anti-gay.  He was pushed to his breaking point and lashed out.  I happened to love this episode and thought it was the best one in a long time.

      • Anonymous

        But, as TLo mentioned, this is the second time they’ve had a gay character push Finn to that point, and both times he’s reacted by attacking them on the basis of their sexuality. I don’t think this necessarily makes Finn anti-gay either – I think it’s more likely that, as a teenager, he has trouble resisting the Go Nuclear button when his back is up, and goes with what will hurt the most – but I wouldn’t blame others for reading him that way.

        It really is time for Kurt to step up with Finn, maybe over their warm milk chats if they’re still having those. If he can do it without being a judgmental bitch, Kurt needs to help Finn with his issues (body image, leadership role, sudden loss of his football dream), and yet make him see that outing people and being an open asshole to Blaine are not proper ways to cope. If they’re not going to bring back funny, sassy Kurt (whom I too miss) it’s time for him to use his position of relative strength to help those around him.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HREPOWNBVUBRIVPQCF3ST2IKDM Euphory

      Oh, have you guys paid attention to what Chris got attacked on twitter recently for?  All because he said Kurt and Karofsky stuff. 

      • Anonymous

        What happened on twitter

    • http://www.facebook.com/Wmueller88 Warren Mueller

      Is anyone else bothered at the fact that we spent a few episodes in earlier seasons devoted to “having 12 members”, and this new, all-girl group clearly does but… but they are still competing in sectionals?

      • Kristen Williamson

        I’ve been wondering that too. But I kind of think that the Troubletones aren’t even going to stay together long enough to get to sectionals, so who knows, it could be a non-issue.

      • Anonymous

        has anyone mentioned the twelve apostles yet?  is the christian right sneaking in some subliminal message here?  no, wait. that’s just my paranoia speaking.

    • Anonymous

      oh man. T and Lo for President!

    • Anonymous

      Hmm TLO, I think you’re digging a little too deep on this one. Kurt’s anti-bullying stance was triggered by Santana’s bullying of a straight character, so… hmm. And also, this is a show in which a gym teacher and a mechanic are running for Congress. Are we still pretending to take it seriously? How is that any less ridiculous than dodgeball-banning being the cornerstone of a campaign?

      • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

        There’s nothing all that unusual about a gym teacher or a mechanic running to be a state representative. And Kurt had an anti-bullying stance long before the dodgeball game. We’re not really sure what your point is there.

        • Anonymous

          it will only be unusual if one of them wins.  all kinds of nuts run for office in california, but they only win if they’re rich and backed by the donkeys or the elephants.  not to imply that gym teachers and mechanics are necessarily nuts.

          • Anonymous

            But this isn’t California — Lima is in Ohio. Teachers  and Business leaders, and Mr Hummel is certainly a business leader – DO run for State Representative, and they do win.  

    • Anonymous

      Dodgeball in public school? Is this supposed to be a period piece?

      • Anonymous

        Oh, my daughter still plays dodge ball in middle school, but it is voluntary and at lunch hour. They even have lunchtime tournaments. I think headshots are against the rules, though.

    • Tamara Hogan

      One more episode where I didn’t understand a single word the Irish guy said.

      KILLER final number.

    • Anonymous

      I didn’t see Finn as a villain or anti-gay here either. As much as I enjoy the character of Santana. The girl is a bitch and likes to bully people like Finn and Rachel. To her they are easy targets that she can lash out at and they don’t have the strength to fire back.

      She had occassionaly throw her venom towards Mercedes but Mercedes is not afraid to counter and stand up to her. In a twisted way Santana actually seems to respect her for it even though she will throw keep lobbing a zinger now and then.

      Finn seems like easy prey to her because he’s too passive of a guy. Finn’s attempts earlier at insults were weak simply because he is too nice of guy normally to go to someone’s weak spot. But it was clear she went to a new level of nastiness with him that pushed him beyond his limits. The way Cory played that seething anger in dead silence followed by the precision attack to the jugular was powerful and excellent. The brutality of his assessment of her was all that more powerful owing to its accuracy. He didn’t just crush her at that point, he made it clear he could have always done it but before always chose not to go there.

      I have to say I did like being left conflicted about the outing. Her outing on a televised ad is undeserving. Yet she can be such an unlikable and cruel person, that it feels like somewhat justified comeuppenace. That eventually her behavior would come back to haunt her. I liked that she got humiliated but also felt a lot pity for her at the same time.  I give props to the show runners as you didn’t see it coming and you didnt see it tying in to Sue’s bizarre slur campaign.

      I will say though I didn’t like Brittany’s campaign being treated as silly with her absurd promises. I wanted the writers to maintain the idea that she is actually a viable candidate for student body president.

      • Anonymous

        I actually liked the episode, but then I’m easily won over by a well-used musical number–and this one had two at the beginning and the end.

        I also thought Cory did a great job with the build-up.  I think the whole outing dispute misses the mark a bit–Finn was overheard and then someone *else* outed Santana to the world.  Finn was more or less hitting below the belt with something he figured was known.  He wasn’t making a point of telling *other* people Santana was gay, he was telling Santana she was a lesbian.  He was then overheard with disastrous consequences.

        Yeah, ideally you don’t say that stuff in a crowded hallway, but people do, in fact, do that sort of thing and don’t think about other people listening in at that moment.

        So did Santana deserve Finn’s jab–yeah.  But was the extensive outing accidental and bad, yeah.

        But it led to a killer final number.  Eric Stoltz consistently does a terrific job of integrating numbers and story lines even when there are issues with the writing.

    • http://twitter.com/wednesdaydreams Natalie

      In my opinion, whether or not Santana bullied the other students, verbally, psychologically etc, it was still no reason for Finn to turn her sexuality against her. They’ve been clunky with the Kurt storyline, but the one thing that was great is that while Karofsky bullied Kurt– psychologically, verbally, physically— to the point where he had to switch schools— Kurt never really outed him. He persuaded him to come out a lot, but he never outed him. 

      Whether or not Finn ‘accidentally’ outed Santana, the consequence was that in became public. No youth, however horrible and mean, deserves to get that agency from their own sexuality taken away from them. What Finn did was to basically hold that part of her identity over her head and turn it against her (first by telling her that he knows (using a secret against her), second by humiliating her by saying that she was scared that Brittany might not love her back and third by calling her a coward just because she wasn’t ready to come out). 

      And the point is also not about how “everyone knows”. I’ve had several guy friends who are gay— to nearly every one around them, it was obvious, but they never came out and said it, and it was because they hadn’t really come out to everyone they knew, and the point is to give them their own time to come out, because the consequences can be traumatising. 

      I was just on tumblr and there was this one blog that allowed for people to rant anonymously on the blog about the episode, and you will not believe the number of youths/teens that posted how traumatized and terrified and how full of self loathing they felt after they watched the episode because they hadn’t come out to their friends and family, and the ones that had experiences of humiliation and being ostracized after they were outed by people when they weren’t ready (even the ones who were outed accidentally and out of good intentions)

      Yes, Santana is a bitch. She is a bully, and she can be downright cruel. But Finn could have come back with something other than using the fact that she was a lesbian against her. It seems to be hypocritical on his part and also implying that only nice, polite gay people can have their queer rights

      Also considering how Finn has a gay step brother, you would think he would be more tactful with these issues.

      • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

        Finn didn’t attack her sexuality; he attacked her self-loathing.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BU7KTPGJ3TU2LUNWGWPFJTTPU4 HeidiW

          Also, it was one of the more real portrayals of a high school teen’s actions the show has done.  Finn was fed up and he grabbed at something he knew would bother her.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hanna-Watts/1683606598 Hanna Watts

          This.  Earlier in the episode she laughed off his weak comebacks and made it clear that if he was going to talk trash he would have to up his game.  Right then and there you *knew* he’d have to go to the self-loathing, closet lesbian area with her to make any kind of impact.  Does it suck to be outed without her permission?  Yes.  Is it justifiable?  No.  Is it a realistic to expect that Finn would go there because he’s 18 and backed into a corner?  Absolutely. She’s a bitch because she hates herself, that was the point he was trying to make.  He wasn’t outing her as payback.

        • http://latxcvi.livejournal.com/ LaT

          Ugh, you’re splitting hairs in a way that I can’t get behind.  Finn is the *actual reason the candidate knew to use Santana’s sexuality as a weapon against Sue*.  He is the direct and proximate cause of her getting outed to the entire state courtesy of that ad.  That’s what makes his behavior indefensible.  He did something that took it from people suspecting Santana was gay to them knowing it and did it *without her consent*.  It doesn’t matter how big of a bitch she is; no one deserves that.  And it’s actually gross and disappointing that y’all are taking the stance that because she’s a bitch that makes it okay, because the logical conclusion of that argument IS that the only marginalized people who deserve to have their rights protected and respected are the ones who know their place/never get out of line.  Also gross? The idea that a straight person should be in any position to lecture a gay one about his or her self-loathing.  It’s been a great run, but I don’t think I’ll be reading your blog any more.

          • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

            This isn’t splitting hairs. Finn said absolutely nothing derogatory about her being a lesbian. He attacked her for being a coward.

            We hope you find a less gross and disappointing place on the internet to discuss this show.

          • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

            This isn’t splitting hairs. Finn said absolutely nothing derogatory about her being a lesbian. He attacked her for being a coward.

            We hope you find a less gross and disappointing place on the internet to discuss this show.

          • Leslie Streeter

            Why can’t a straight person say “You are being a bitch, and this is why?” Why is that off the table? She went after him, and he struck out. It was not a rational decision – it was the decision of someone who was being attacked.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

              To me the difference is that Finn’s comments put her in danger — actual, physical danger. Gay teens are still physically attacked all over the place, and now that her face is on a television commercial (which couldn’t have happened without Finn), her family is probably going to get deeply harassed, as well. Heck, the girl could be disowned, tossed out onto the street, you name it. Finn has jeopardized her physical safety in a very real way. To me, that’s a completely different order of business.

            • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

              And you don’t think her bullying jeopardizes the safety of others all the time?  Bullied kids become self-destructive quite often, and that can often lead to death — I’m sure that kids who bullied me would have told you that they weren’t really hurting me because none of them every laid a finger on me (I had a very popular older brother that benched over 400 lbs, with a nasty temper and a protective streak a mile wide:).  And did they cause me to OD on sleeping pills at 14?  Maybe not… but they sure as hell didn’t help.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

              Shannon, bullying is terrible, and I’m sorry you had to go through that. I don’t think Santana deserves a pass for her behavior. But my feeling is that gay kids are much more vulnerable when it comes to bullying. And yes, that they’re subjected to much higher rates of physical abuse because of their sexuality. Finn put her in danger — not just from himself, but from a much wider community. I can’t picture anything Santana said to Finn putting him in danger of getting kicked out of his home or receiving death threats from the community; but what he did to her puts her at risk of exactly those things and more.

            • Leslie Streeter

              Finn is not the first person to publicly refer to Santana’s sexuality. He’s just the first whose comments got noticed. Finn did not mean to jeopardize her physical safety. He was flailing to find some way to get her to back the hell off. But Santana certainly threatened Rory’s physical safety…by pummeling him with a ball until he bled. Again, not to downplay the seriousness of what Finn did. But Santana cannot get a pass. She kept pushing and she brought down thunder she couldn’t have imagined.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            Yeah, because straight people are all happy, comfortable people with great self-esteem. 

            You know what I find gross?  The fact that you’re implying that I couldn’t possibly know anything about self-loathing because of my sexual orientation.  I’ve been clinically depressed since I was 8 years old, intensely enough to require hospitalization on more than one occasion — and I don’t know anything about self-loathing because I’m not gay?!? 

          • Anonymous

            I have to agree.  There is a trend toward equating closeted with coward, which is disturbing because it robs the individual of her ability to come out on her own terms.  Contrast Finn’s attack on Santana with Kurt’s silence about Karofsky’s (sp?) sexuality.  I don’t think Finn’s behavior was a-okay just because he didn’t say anything homophobic.

            And whether a lot of people in the school know (speculate?) about Santana’s sexuality and discuss it behind her back or not, the sort of open discussion of the subject on display in the scene with Finn is still a further “outing” in my book.

            • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

              When we read phrases like “Finn’s attack on Santana” we wonder if we watched the same show as some of you.

            • Anonymous

              Um, okay.  You’ve used that very word twice now in this line of comments, saying “he attacked her for her self-loathing” and “attacked her for being a coward.”  But if you want to be disingenuous now, I guess that’s cool.

            • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

              Oh, good. I was hoping you’d think it was cool of me to be disingenuous.

              There are obviously different ways of using the word “attack,” such as when one uses it as a verb or when one uses it as a noun. These various uses have various connotations because that’s how language works.

              But hey, if you want to pretend that every use of every word means exactly the same thing every time, I guess that’s cool.

      • Anonymous

        true, kurt didn’t out karofsky, but who did?  when he was elected prom king along with kurt as queen, it seems that many people knew about his sexuality and wanted to use it to humiliate him, but this was never explained.  or did i miss something?  

        • Sobaika Mirza

          I think that was meant to humiliate Kurt – Karaofsky was a football player, probably very popular, and a shoe-in for King. They joke was electing Kurt as a Queen.

      • Anonymous

        Reading through all these comments what annoys me about the responses is that everyone wants there to be a clear good guy and a clear bad guy. I work with high school students, and they are muddling around, trying to figure out right and wrong, trying to figure out how they want to conduct themselves in the world, what kind of person they want to be. And they all mess up a lot in the process. Finn and Santana are both imperfect and immature, as they should be, they are high school students. So yes, it was wrong of Finn to out her, and it was wrong of Santana to be a bully. I want to say that I would never have outed someone when I was in high school, but I also was never bullied by a closet case. So let’s not try to make one of them into the hero and the other into the villain.

        • Sarah Dickerson

          Exactly!  The characters actually acted like real teenagers.  Imagine that.

        • Anonymous

          Thank you!  The PC holier-than-thou stuff that’s showing up misses the point–which is not whether Finn was good or bad, but was it believable that this character would respond as he did and is it understandable?  I’d say yes.  And I’m with TLo–he didn’t attack her being a lesbian, he attacked her self-loathing and her dishonesty.  Was it his call?  Probably not.  But it wasn’t Santana’s call to go after him repeatedly.

          It was less about right or wrong than natural consequences–hit below the belt, don’t be surprised when you get hit back.  Pick your fights in crowded hallways, don’t be shocked that stuff gets out.

          And these are the kind of lessons people do need to learn and generally learn through the school of hard knocks.

          I think it’s actually kind of an interesting narrative arc.  Not sure I quite get Sue’s turnaround–that’s what bugged me the most.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

            I think you all make some good points here about what actual high school kids are like — and Santana is hardly a saint. I guess part of what bugs me is knowing that, this show being what it is, there will be no consequences for Finn. He’ll get to out Santana and yet the writers will continue to shove down our throats that this middling, often emotionally cowardly kid is somehow a great leader. But then, the huge inconsistencies from episode to episode (and often within an episode!) have always been a problem on Glee.

            • Anonymous

              Well, I think Finn sometimes rises to the occasion, but yes, a huge chunk of it will get dropped.  Heck, I’m a bit bothered that we know Kurt will get elected senior class president, but the points made earlier about there not being a female class president in six years will just sort of vanish.  

              I think, though, that Finn’s not going to have a big future in front of him.  It will be the semi-outcasts like Rachel and Kurt who will move upward post high school.  I think Finn will get a ray of hope, but he’s going to be a small-town boy running Burt’s tire shop.  In fact, I think he may be intended to be an embryonic Burt/Mr.Shue. and he’ll be all right with it.

              Whereas Rachel and Kurt have to leave Lima.  They’re misfits because they belong someplace larger.

            • Anonymous

              What I like about the way they portray Finn is that is isn’t just the stereotypical dumb but goodhearted lead male. Yes, he is goodhearted, but he is also concerned with his image and his popularity, he is uncomfortable with having a gay friend have a crush on him, he has jealousy of people more talented than him, etc. He is emotionally cowardly AND a good leader. Or more accurately, he has the potential to be a leader as an adult, and he is learning how to be it, and is often failing. Like, protecting a friend (the Irish kid) from a bully, admirable. Doing it in a way in which you might ruin Santana’s life, bad choice. And kids that age can be amazingly bad at understanding perspectives and life experiences outside of their own. Like, I can see to Finn how he wouldn’t see it as that big a deal to call her on her self-loathing/sexual orientation issues because, gay step-brother or no, he wouldn’t think like, oh, maybe Santana’s parents will through her out of the house, maybe her dad will beat the crap out of her, maybe they will refuse to let her see the love of her life (all things that have happened to gay friends of mine once their parents found out).  Make no mistake, I think outing people (expect perhaps politicians trying to enact anti-gay legislation…), particularly teenagers, is a TERRIBLE thing to do, no matter how awful the person is, because you do not know the repercussions it will have on their life. I just think it totally normal for teenagers to do things in the moment that they think are right, that they do for good intentions, that turn out to be really bad choices, and that doesn’t make them bad people.

    • Michelle Cruz

      I think it would be really (excuse the word) stupid, if it was REALLY Finn who outed Santana. He has a gay half-brother and knows how hard it was for him. Although I don’t like Finn, I would like to think it wasn’t him for now, until the show proves it. I would like to think the writers are a bit better than that, even though we know there are not. Wishful Thinking.

      • Anonymous

        The show said it wasn’t Finn–it was a relative of the candidate who overheard them in the hallway.

    • Anonymous

      I agree with everything you said T Lo. I’ll just add this: Can we please have a little more hilarity mixed in with the ham-fisted afterschool-special messaging?

      I liked Hot for Teacher. The Hall & Oates bit cracked me up because it was so dorky.

      I’m pretty over this show, but like I said in the comments section last week, I watch because my 12 yo watches it, and I want to parse the messaging with her and generally get her take on what she is seeing.

      • Anonymous

        i watched the “Rumours” episode with my three-year-old granddaughter and she hasn’t stopped singing:  “don’t stop thinkin’ about tomorrow, don’t stop, it’ll soon be here.  it’ll be here, better than before, yesterday’s gone oh yesterday’s gone.”  always good to remember.

    • Anonymous

      One of my biggest  problems with last night’s show is that I find it hard to work up any sense of outrage or shock (if that’s even the reaction they’re going for…) about Puck and Shelby when Mark Salling is so clearly 38 years old.  Maybe if he looked more like an 18-year-old, I’d have my knickers in a twist.   Imagine how she’d look if it was Rory, for example…ick.  But Puck?  Meh.

      • Gregg Clare

        28 years old

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patricia-Clements/100000941516003 Patricia Clements

      Don’t like the show.  My husband likes the musical numbers and watches occasionally.  I don’t think he pays much attention to the story line as he reads or works on his computer between numbers. 

    • Anonymous

      I actually think the writing was pretty good. The fact that so many of us are divided over the Finn/Santana incident is because they drew Santana in such a villain way that when she got it shoved back in her face we don’t really know how to feel. That’s good writing to me. We’re conflicted. Her character, while funny a lot, is extremely cruel and condescending to everyone who has a flaw. Finn outing her was wrong but maybe it was right. That seemed to be the only thing to get her to shut up. Sometimes when you’re going up against a bully stepping up, getting in their face and scaring the shit out of them is the only way to stop them. Finn did that. I’m not saying he’s a hero. There’s something wrong with what he did in that moment. His character should have risen above it. That said, he’s a teen kid who got pushed as far as he was willing to take and fought back. It’s really an interesting moment for this show because I see a lot of people saying Santana deserved to get bitch slapped there. They just don’t like that he “outed” her. 

      I’m sure the show is not going to wrap this up well though. This is a major set up that they can pay off in a very smart way but I think probably what will happen is Kurt will educate Finn about why what he did was wrong, then Finn will beg for Santana’s forgiveness and that will be that. What would be interesting to me is Santana and Finn meeting somewhere in the middle. Her realizing she pushed him and others to that point and him realizing he never should have lost his cool like that. That’s the more interesting thing – both of them taking responsibility rather than Finn being strung up for crossing the line. 

      The Adele mashup was probably one of the best numbers ever on the show. When they hooked back into the Someone Like You chorus with the uptempo beat towards the end of the number I almost jumped out of my chair. The music was brilliant and there is no way the New Directions kids could ever beat the Troubletones in any sort of competition. They are going to have to unite the groups soon since it is not even believable that New Directions could even tie them. 

      Shelby will probably nail Puck, get fired, go away in shame and the groups will be combined. I also think if the writers are doing their jobs there’s going to be some ramifications for Rachel asking Shelby to write her recommendation letter if she’s fired from the school for having an improper relationships with a student. It was a small, actually well written/acted, moment last night between Rachel and Shelby and it could turn out to be something that takes their relationship away from the gooey place it’s currently in. I hope they pay that off. A recommendation letter from a disgraced teacher should hurt her chances. 

      And dear God does Idina look smoking hot this season. Phew. 

      • Anonymous

        Maybe it’s just me, but I actually think Shelby *won’t* sleep with Puck.  I think, though, that she’ll leave to stop the entanglements, though not before there’s some sort of resolution between her and Quinn.  If Shelby sleeps with Puck, it will veer into unfit mother territory and I don’t think the show wants to go there.

        I also think that Santana and Finn will meet in the middle–Santana’s been such an aggressor that she’s not going to go the St. Kurt route.  I do think she’ll end up with Brittany, which I consider a mistake (it’s way too unequal a relationship.), but I think that’s where Glee’s bad writing will show up.  

    • Terence Ng

      I was given pause in the episode where Santana coldly tells the Irish kid to “disappear”. In any other context, i would have expected the next scene to be him committing suicide. It makes me wonder a lot where Glee has a leg to stand on pushing its anti-bullying message. Bullying affects queer kids, but it also affects straight kids, or kids for reasons other than their sexuality: their weight, their nationality, their ability to fit in, anything a bully can needle in there.

      If the show isn’t going to seriously address those topics except for when it’s a gay kid on the line, and use all other instances of cruelty as comedy, I think it damages the movement pushing to bring anti-queer bullying to light. Critics will take it as fuel that the anti-bullying movement is really just about gay kids and doesn’t give a flying fuck about bullying as a whole (an accusation that’s already been made about It Gets Better). It’s damaging to our own struggle when prominent voices seem careless or crass about bullying people who aren’t struggling queer youth.

    • Anonymous

      two areas to comment on:

      #1  dodgeball…i haven’t seen the episode yet, so when you were talking about playing it straight, i thought you meant they were playing dodgeball straight- that is, aiming straight for the balls.  that would be a good reason the ban it.  but that’s just me.

      #2  stereotypical lesbian attire…santana  will need to grow out her underarm hair to accessorize her flannel and birkenstocks.   

    • S D

      “Can we just stop here and say how weird it is that the gays at McKinley
      keep needling Finn until he lashes out and hurts them? Couldn’t the
      writers have come up with a different foil for Santana? It’s almost
      making Finn look anti-gay as a character and we doubt that was the
      intent.”

      Lol, almost making Finn look anti-gay as a character. Sure, the straight white dude swimming in privilege who has previously displayed homophobic behavior is somehow the one always wronged by the gays even though he’s clearly displayed his discomfort with homosexuality before and doesn’t seem to realize how awful an environment McKinley is for people who aren’t straight despite having Kurt as a stepbrother and needing to learn this lesson before. Santana was and is a massive asshole, all Finn needed to do was be an asshole right back to her, outing her in a public hallway of a clearly hostile environment like McKinley is not defensible in any way and really is not the same as trash-talking, and I find you trying to excuse that to be really gross. Santana is a bully, but no one deserves to be outed, especially when that sexuality had nothing to do with her assholishness. Finn was completely and utterly out of line.

      • Anonymous

        First, Finn is not “swimming privilege” Until  the end of last season, he was was being raised by a single mother. As someone who grew up in that situation, there isn’t a lot of privilege in it.  It has a lot  of challenges. Any kind of “privilege” that Finn has is new – because his Mom married Mr Hummel, who seemed to be  doing okay. 

        Why is McKinley High such a hostile enviroment? Because of people like Santana make it that way.  She has gone out of her way to be horrible to Finn … it has been established that Finn has issues with his body, so she went for the jugular with him. She gave the Irish kid a bloody nose and intentionally assaulting him in a game of Dodgeball, but Santana is the victim in this?  I don’t think so. Santana didn’t deserve to be outed on television, but that’s not Finn’s fault,  an adult made that decision.  Finn certainly didn’t deserved to be attacked about his physical appearance in the hall either, and I’m sorry  I don’t see how anyone can think that is okay. Santana crossed the line – she was cruel and has been that way repeatedly, Finn fought back in the way any teenager would. I think that’s also important to remember, Finn is at best, 18. Sometimes when dealing with a bully you have to meet them in their arena, I think he just spoke what he knew to be true. 

        • Anonymous

          White, straight, male. That’s preeeeeeetty privileged…

          • Anonymous

            …but not without it’s hardships, especially  growing up without a father – unless of course, white straight males have an easier time with that.  As a white, straight, female,  growing up without a father was, at times difficult.  Maybe the guys do have it easier, but something tells me maybe not.

            • Anonymous

              Of course, still with hardships. I don’t think anyone grows up without them. I wasn’t trying to diminish the struggles of single parenting/being raised by a single parent. Sorry if it came off that way! :)

              I guess I just can’t stand the idea that he’s supposed to be ‘the good guy’, the leader and main character and yet has shown no redeemable qualities of late…

            • Anonymous

              Let’s see, he’s working class, can’t afford college without a scholarship and the son of a single mother–but he’s inherently privileged?  You know it’s spouting off simplistic stuff like that that helps create the continuingly awful political climate in this country–on both sides.

               Yes, 50 years ago, straight white male was a privileged class, but have you read a newspaper in the last few years?  Men are getting hit in the neck as far as employment goes.  More women than men are attending college.  Are you going to tell me that David Geffen or Ryan Murphy aren’t privileged because they’re gay?  Or that a straight white male carpenter who’s been unemployed for 18 months is more privileged than an Indian-American woman doctor with a degree from Harvard?

              I’m a lefty liberal  XX chromosome type, myself, but come on . . . 

        • Anonymous

          There’s seems to be at least one Santana in every high school, allowing us all to experience a hostile environment at a young age.  I’ve never cared much for the character, in part, because she’s never faced any consequences for her actions (I know … it’s Glee – but even Rachel is shunned and belittled and loses solos to less talented people like Quinn from time to time).  I also just don’t think she’s funny; Sue, by contrast, targets adults a lot more often than Santana and also ventures into self-parody to a greater degree.  

          I was glad to see Finn hurt Santana, given that we’ve seen Santana hurt others for two and half years.

        • Sobaika Mirza

          Privilege does not equal lack of hardships. Privilege is when a social, cultural, and economic experience is expected to be the default experience for everyone, or the norm – even when it is not. A person experiencing male privilege, for example, would see the idealized images of men in our society (Superman, Ken dolls, Henry Cavill) as comparable to the onslaught of beauty expectations a woman feels.

          So while Finn has his own hardships and experiences (as you point out, being raised by a single mother) there is no denying that he very likely experiences white, male, heterosexual, and Judeo-Christian privilege.

          • Anonymous

            And I would say his being working class without money for college has way more impact than Ken dolls–which have come in different shades for 40 years.  

            And there are many, many negative depictions of working-class white men in our culture–cracker, rednecks, bigots, etc.  

            The huge inequality in this country in 2011 isn’t ethnic or sexual, but financial.  This hasn’t always been the case, but it is now.  

            • Anonymous

              - I hope you realize the Ken doll mention was an example and a parallel, and referring to physical fitness and beauty
              - You are high if you think the negative depictions of lowerclass white populations are as ingrained in our culture as that of black, latino, homosexual, or even female populations
              - If someone were to see a picture of Finn, no one would know if he were raised by a single mother, or rich or poor or educated or employed, but if someone were to see a picture of Mercedes, they would know instantly that she is black and could many anywhich assumptions (positive or negative or whatever) based on that
              - FYI the financial crisis hit the black community the hardest in the states. The rich/poor divide is currently widening but I would not say it is not the greatest inequality we face today. You insisting so  doesn’t make it fact.

              And not that it matters, but I am a white woman.I just know that someone mentioned privilege, you seemed to misinterpret what they meant. Someone else clarified, and I think you were applying it too literally to Glee and this particular situation. White Privilege, Male Privilege, and Heterosexual Privilege are all very real things.

            • Anonymous

              I posted the following in response to you, but it ended up elsewhere in the thread–so this its right spot:

              Oh, I see I’m high because I like words to be used precisely.  The use of “privilege” here is used to gloss over and dismiss the particulars of the individual character’s situation–i.e. Finn’s challenges somehow matter less because he’s part of a “privileged” class.   You may think economic disparity isn’t the biggest inequality we face today, but given that it effects health, access to education, access to food, clothing and shelter and political power, I’d say your disagreement is less than convincing.  Your mention of the effect of the recession on African-American communities is a case in point–AA communities have been hard hit in part because they’re poor communities with a lack of access to healthcare, education, quality food, etc.  Beyonce is African-American, but I guarantee that she’s not feeling the same effects of the recession as anyone of any color who is living in poverty.  I have a big problem with wedging anyone into a category and then deciding that their issues have more or less merit as a result.  I think you can talk about a group’s advantages,  but it becomes reductionist quite rapidly.  Finn, as a character, is NOT more privileged than Santana in that he is likely to have less access to various opportunities than Santana.Which is a nice example, by the way, of how economic privilege triumphs over other privileges.  Providing Glee doesn’t get Santana thrown out (which is possible) of her home, the lesbian Hispanic character is much more likely than the straight white male character to go to a prestigious college and have a professional career.  Will there be challenges she faces that Finn won’t?  Absolutely.  But the reverse is true as well–and that is largely because of the economic disparity between them.  I think, perhaps, that you don’t live near the insanely rich–I do–and the disparity is shocking as is the extreme amount of political power that comes with it.Maybe you need to see what real privilege looks like.

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              Reply

            • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

              The entire point of pointing out privilege is to show that a non-white person in the exact same situation – working class, single mother – is statistically going to have a much harder time of it than a white person from the same background.

            • Anonymous

              Hi TLo,

              I get the concept and I think it can be a valid critique, but I think it doesn’t always apply and I think it gets overused.  I live in Silicon Valley–and economic standing and educational background kind of leave other things in the dust.  Someone like Vinod Khosla doesn’t have a harder time because he’s not “white”  (which, in itself, is a far more fluid term historically than most of us realize–Hispanics, for example were “white” on census forms in 1930.  A Chinese-American friend of mine’s father was considered “white” by the army in WWII.)

              In the fictional Glee universe, my question would be does the issue of white male straight privilege play a role in the interaction between Santana and Finn?  Or do other factors predominate?  I would say it’s the latter.  If anything, I’d say that Glee is playing a bit with the whole underdog issue.  Santana is portrayed as being in a privileged position–she’s successful, (head cheerleader, big part in school musical), attractive, smart and comes from an affluent background.  Her attempts to appear street have always been a bit of a joke.  In many ways, I think Glee has failed to deal with her ethnicity–it’s mostly ignored it.  In some ways, Santana’s sexuality troubles her because it means she is, despite it all, different and marginalized.

              It makes for an interesting character dynamic–one of the strength/weaknesses of Glee, to me, is that it understands the dynamics of dealing with sexual identity in a way the writers don’t actually get some other issues–such as being the Americanized kid of immigrants or being fifth-generation American and still seen as foreign because your ancestors came over on a boat from Japan or got crossed by the border 150 years.

              But, overall, I give the show major props for moving beyond token-gay kid who’s best friend of the heroine.  Though Glee tips its hat to that cliche, too.

          • Anonymous

            lol ‘superman, ken dolls, HENRY CAVILL’

          • Marika Christian

            I know what Priviledge means. Like anyone who lives out side white corporate America I have experienced  the abuse of that privilege, and I certainl have said “damn the man” more then once.  When it comes down to it though, he who has the money has the power – and that ain’t Finn.  At least the way I see it.  And what he is LIKELY to experience does not influence what is going on in his life, in the halls  of McKinley high today.  He stood up  to a mean girl who has belittled him and berated him, and hurt him on mulitiple occasions … I would also argue that while her intension was not a bad one, Brittney is the one that outed Santana when she worked for the school newspaper and said Satana played for the other team.

            I also don’t think he is a always a good guy in the show.  He didn’t stand up for Kurt when he should have,  he often is slow to do the right thing.  In this case, again he stood up to a girl who knew what his weakness was and had no problem ripping him apart publically … she also caused someone hurt someone physically in the episode.  Yes, it’s wrong that she is mentioned in an ad, and again an adult made that decision … not Finn.  Because Santana has issues with her sexuality  as many people do at that age does not give her a pass to hurt other people.

      • http://dandelion.livejournal.com/ Jenna

        What the heck does privilege have to do with anything? If it’s economic privilege, Santana’s dad is a plastic surgeon and Finn’s mum was a single mother. If it’s status, Finn has just been told he’s nowhere near good enough for an athletic scholarship, so him being a jock hasn’t actually got him anywhere. He’s also not good enough to sing professionally. Finn is white, sure, but Santana hasn’t ever appeared to have any problems through being Hispanic.

        I don’t think Finn’s homophobic – I think he’s just not particularly complex, and when pushed lashes out at people with the easiest thing he knows will hurt them. And I still think he had reason to be bothered by Kurt’s behaviour in earlier seasons. If Kurt was a straight male and Finn was a girl who’d told Kurt she wasn’t interested in him, and Kurt still kept on hitting on her, no-one would ever, ever have thought it appropriate to make them share a room. In a million years.

        • Anonymous

          Yep, I think it’s the writers’ faults for setting it all up so badly.  They wrote Kurt as both aggressive and victim and didn’t reconcile it that well–and that played out in Finn’s character.  Now you never see Kurt and Finn one on one and I wish we would.  I actually think seeing a brother relationship between a gay and a straight pair would be kind of nice.  I mean, how is Kurt dealing with Finn working in the tire shop and probably the heir apparent?  All that kind of went away.  It’s all hunky-dory now.

    • CQAussie

      I found it difficult to relate to the storyline of Sue’s candidacy this episode because her negative ads were so out of the realm of reality.  You’re right – the Glee writers squandered a magnificent chance at skewering current political strategies we see in play.  

      I also struggled mightily to feel a twinge of sympathy for Santana for the same reasons you guys struggled.  I couldn’t watch Kurt’s earnest plea against dodgeball with a straight face because it was just as out there as Britney’s crusade against tornadoes.  In fact – Britney’s empty promises mirror closer to what we’re seeing from the Presidential candidates in real life: big grandiose promises to rid America of a supposed scourge of…..whatever scary thing they can think of that can be linked tenuously to socialism/Nazis/communism.  

      The Rumour Has It/Someone Like You mash-up was my favourite.  The Puck and Hot Teacher storyline got under my skin even more than it did last week as Puck inexplicably tells on Quinn?  It gave me whiplash.  Also….what is with portraying the Irish kid as the wimp?  Most Irish people I know would have shoved the dodgeball down their opponents throats.  Literally.  Especially after being insulted and bullied constantly for weeks on end.  A disappointing episode.

    • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

      Honestly, I think they’ve gone WAY too far with the gay characters.

      What’s the message Glee is sending with these characters?  They’ve stopped being the people they started out as and become defined by their sexuality.  Aren’t there enough kids out there who think that “gay” is who they are entirely?  Too often, when a kid comes out, they think that everything in their life has to be colored by their homosexuality, losing a lot about themselves in the process.  I don’t think Ryan Murphy really needs to reinforce that stupid, sad notion.

      I’d be fine with him exploring Kurt and/or Santana going through that period, and I thought he did hit on that with Kurt and Finn in the first season, when Finn blew up at him and explained that it wasn’t because he was gay, but because he was being predatory.  But no one seems to be challenging them on the issue — no one is looking at them and going “Gay is PART of who you are.  It does not define you!” 

      • scottyf

        Being gay does define me. But the definition is neither pat nor simple. Just as being African American defines me. I see the world through the eyes of both. They, however are not the ONLY things that define me. My problem has been that society forces some incredibly rigid rules about what it has to mean to be both in our culture. For many years I wrestled with how the mainstream defines being gay and black, and the disconnect with how I see them. I see the world through gay eyes–which doesn’t mean that I want to put pink, frilly lace on everything (which society TELLS me it should mean); but when I watch football (which I shouldn’t like because I’m gay), I DO pay attention to the players–just as many straight guys pay attention to the cheerleaders. And I’m not just talking sexually. Sometimes I literally don’t SEE the cheerleaders. And if I do, I’m usually wondering why they all look the same (which probably didn’t even cross my white counterpart’s mind) We’re watching the same event, but from entirely different perspectives.

        I’ve found that a lot of times my straight, and white friends don’t recognize that, among other things, they are defined by their heterosexual and racial privilege. And too often they inadvertently think that equality is everyone being able to think with that same heterosexual and privileged value system. For me, equality is being able to define myself as I see fit, and having that definition weigh equally as much as the next person’s.

        • Sobaika Mirza

          Scotty, you put racial and heterosexual privilege into far more articulate words than I could ever muster. Hats off to you!

          • scottyf

            Thank you, but shush about the articulate words. You muster up some pretty damn fine words about everything you comment about.

            I also covet Burt Hummel as you mentioned above. His character is a strong reason why this show has endeared itself to me. Thanks to the writing and Mike O’Malley, he is a nuanced character that does exactly what I was speaking to above: he doesn’t understand all of his son’s traits and cultural norms, but loves him madly. He eloquently shows that two opposing things can exist in the same person–and sometimes even help to give balance and ways to cope in this topsy-turvy world.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

          I’ve known a lot of young gay men, in particular, who really struggle to see it that way — they think that being gay is all that they are, rather than just a part of who they are.  I think too often, who they are beyond that gets lost, at least for awhile, because the world wants to see them as “the gay guy”, rather than the football fan, to use your example.  Kids have such a struggle with identity, and gays are still presented so stereotypical in mainstream media that when one comes out of the closet, it becomes an identity that is foisted on them rather than the one they created for themselves with their sexual orientation as a piece.

          I understand what you’re saying about it being a part of you — I didn’t change my last name when I got married because it wasn’t me.  It had nothing to do with not wanting people to know my husband was Asian (though I did get accused of that — I was “ashamed” of his heritage… riiiiight…), it was that I’m not — I’m Scotch-Irish and my name conveys that quite well.

          As for equality, I couldn’t agree more — equal and identical are different things.  I still get angry when people give us looks because we’re an interracial couple.  My husband just ignores it.  When I asked him how he could just be fine with it, he looked at me and said, “Honey, no offense, but you’re white.  That’s why it bothers you so much — you aren’t used to it.  I don’t have time to get pissed every time someone doesn’t like me because I’m Chinese.”

          • scottyf

            I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well.

            It could be semantics, but I don’t think so. Let me try to make my points by using some of your statements to address a bigger meaning. One of the things you started with was:

            “Honestly, I think they’ve gone WAY too far with the gay characters.”

            Being candid, I have to tell you that raised some flags in me. You didn’t mention specific names. There are a few characters who identify as gay: Kurt, Blaine, Karofsky–are you talking about all of them? Then, of course there are the characters who still haven’t identified–such as Santana and Brittney. Are they included? From my perspective it feels a little marginalizing to call them “gay characters.” In my mind, you’re doing exactly what you have an issue with.

            “They’ve stopped being the people they started out as and become defined by their sexuality.”

            Rightly, or wrongly we are ALL defined by our sexuality. From the moment we recognize that some people have penises and others have a vagina, we begin to sort out what that means about who we are. The difference is that in our society heterosexuality is seen as normal; and, no matter what the psychiatric community says, homosexuality is questioned in many circles and cultures. The problem as I see it is NOT that I defined myself through my sexuality as a teenager, but that all around me I was perceiving that it was WRONG to be gay. Also, being gay isn’t just about sexuality, it also involves culture and community.  I spent a long time looking around for a group of people that looked at the world similarly to how I did.

            Your point about how kids define themselves really resonates with me. I agree completely. But I don’t think  “You are so much more than gay!” is the healthiest approach. That’s why I LOVE the character of Burt Hummel. His advice to his son is: “Embracing being gay is going to help you figure out the rest of you.”

            • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

              Yep, it’s semantics.  Because I agree with everything you’ve said in both comments. 

              To clarify: The reason I referred to them as “gay characters” is because each of them has or is doing the same thing in different ways, and that’s become so much of the focus on these characters.  And yes, I would say “black characters” regarding a show that was painting them all with the same brush, or while discussing the race issue on a show specifically affecting that group of characters.

              As for the “you’re more than gay”, you are, but I can see where it would sound like it’s somehow an unimportant part when phrased that way.  (Almost a “You’re more than gay, so why don’t you just be straight since it’s easier and being gay isn’t important to you anyway?”) 

              I don’t want to see people marginalized by being “just gay” or anything else.  I hate that young people, particularly gay ones in my experience, think that many of the choices you make about who to be are either/or propositions — not whether or not to be gay, but whether accepting your homosexuality means you have to leave the football team.  And I think it keeps some people in the closet;  they don’t want to change everything in their lives to be “gay”.

              I agree Burt put it better than I did, but then he always does:) 

            • Anonymous

              Interesting discussion.  While I take issue above with the whole idea of Finn being a privileged character because he fits a norm (there are other factors, chiefly economic, that play hugely against any “privilege” he may have from societal expectations), I do think the issue of identification is a huge one for anyone who doesn’t fit sexual, racial “norms” and it doesn’t go away just because it was processed once.  

              While some of Kurt’s storyline got bathetic last season, I actually like the variety of gay characters on Glee simply because it gets things past the token situation and the gay and bi characters don’t handle their sexual orientation issues in a cookie-cutter way.

              I think Glee does a poorer job of dealing with ethnic diversity–Mercedes’ character tends to be underdeveloped as is Tina’s.  Santana’s ethnicity seems to play little part in her identity as written–though you have a sense of it in her musical style.  Mike Chang has a storyline that’s pretty much a cliche.  It would be better if Tina was given more of a character and we saw Tina and Mike interact more–she seems to be third or fourth generation, while he seems to be first-generation.

    • http://www.facebook.com/shawn.eric.hill Shawn Hill

      Plus, donkey and Democrats, and yet Sue didn’t take a political stance, but a crazy-hat stance instead? It was just a super-big misfire, a shame when Lynch can play much better dialogue if they give it to her. Naya sort of ruled this episode, though. and I loved Mercedes standing up to her, too.

      Also, dodge ball can be a scourge, but the moment they broke the leprechaun’s nose wasn’t a problem with Dodge ball; it was a problem with the cheerleaders/Troubletones.

    • scottyf

      *Once more, in his best Charlton Heston as Taylor in Planet of the Apes:*
      DAMN YOU T&LO!!!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!

      You’ve got me hooked. I always knew it was a ground-breaking show…even with all of its faults. I just didn’t want to have to deal with those faults. But it really seems to be worth it on many levels.

      I think not having seen many episodes from prior seasons is both a benefit and drawback. Of course the drawback is not being able to see the character and story through-lines that you speak of. But I also see that as a benefit in this case. For me, the writing sets up the dichotomy and disjointed elements–much like say, Adjusted Development or Soap. To me, the show isn’t intended to be a reflection of reality, but more a statement about it. I can see why you found Kurt’s campaign speech to be over the top, but I have to admit that I teared up. I don’t think I ever participated in a game of Dodgeball in which it wasn’t clear that I was being targeted for something another player hated about me. It ALWAYS felt personal.

      From a newbie standpoint, the conflict between Santana and Finn and it’s climax in the hall made perfect sense. It had me whooping at my screen for Finn. I didn’t find him vindictive or cruel. In fact I was blown away by the subtle performances of Mr. Monteith and Ms. Rivers. I felt Finn ultimately said what he said out of tough love. I got the feeling he really cared about Santana. And it is actually one of the things that I have really appreciated about Ms. River’s portrayal. I’ve never hated her. I’ve found that the writers and the actor do a really great job of giving her dimension. I’ve felt exactly what Finn said about her all along.

      And I really liked the symmetry involved in things like the campaign ads. I agree that Sue’s ads were ridiculous. It seemed to me that was the point so that the ad with the outing of Santana would stand out even more for it’s deadly seriousness.

      One show can’t be everything. I think the fact that we can even TALK about these things because of Glee is something to applaud. And dissect. And rage about.

      And love.

      • Sobaika Mirza

        If you get the chance Scotty, catch up on the early episodes. Glee definitely benefits from the payoff of long-term characters and story-arcs. And some of the best and most emotional moments I’ve experienced through television have come through this show, even with all its spectacular faults.

        I still want Kurt Hummel as my dad, I’ll always have a soft spot for Santana/Naya Rivera after witnessing her transformation from a stock character to a 3-dimensional one, and remember when Mr. Shue had more than three lines to deliver per episode.

      • Anonymous

        I think the dodgeball thing would have worked for me if this hadn’t been the first time they’d ever played it on the show. It’s been used in promos since before this season started, but it’s not been an issue at McKinley until this episode. I wanted Kurt to use his platform to talk about bullying – it seemed the only logical place to take it – but instead of talking about slushies or locker shoves or dumpster tosses, he talks about dodgeball.

        So you’re right, not having seen the earlier seasons probably helps your appreciation of the show, that way you can’t be disappointed when Continuity takes off like a dog after a squirrel. : )

      • Anonymous

        Glee’s a roller-coaster ride.  It goes where no other show goes, but when it’s bad, it’s very very bad.  I suspect being a musical theatre junkie raises my tolerance.

        As others say, thing about Kurt is that they really overplayed parts of his storyline last season so there’s a bit of a backlash.  That said, I suspect you’ll love parts of Season 2–just given your affinity for TLo.  Unfortunately, Mercedes’ storylines have not been strong–this season’s the best they’ve had.

      • Anonymous

        Oh, scottyf, bless you for quoting Easy Rawlins!

    • Anonymous

      Hated this episode:  another ‘Love America Style” knock off with multiple, almost unrelated story arcs mashed into an episode. I thought the music sucked.

      Great that Finn blasted Santana after all the crap he took from her. Perhaps this was one of the few “real moments” in the show even though I expected a bit more of a reaction from all the kids in the hallway. I guess everyone was too busy looking for geometry homework. 

      Not sure what is going on with Kurt (a turban?)…that is one dead character just walking through the season. One thing I am thankful for: very little Mr Shu and Sue in this episode.

      More Rory please.

    • Anonymous

      This post perfectly verbalizes all the problems I had with last night’s Glee, and the show in general. Well done.

    • BuffaloBarbara

      Guys, thanks.  I don’t watch “Glee,” so I’m not sure why I clicked on the recap, but the “it’s only not okay to bully gay kids” thing has been very prominent lately, to the point where it’s being treated as a “gay issue.”  Kids get bullied over lots of things–they’re too fat, they’re too thin, they’re too smart, they’re not smart enough, they have breasts, they don’t have breasts, they’re too poor, they’re too rich, they’re religious, they’re atheists, they’re of a race different from the bully’s, they have accents, they’re prudish, they’re sluts, they’re… well, you get the picture.  Certainly, gay kids are among those who are victims of bullying, but by sanctifying a single group as “bully-proof,” you end up denying the every day experience of a whole lot of other kids.

      • Sobaika Mirza

        In school, I was picked on at school for every possible reason. And I agree that it sucks no matter who you are and why it’s happening. But there’s some startling statistic – I don’t remember the exact figure, but something like gay kids are over 50% more likely to resort to self-harm and suicide as the result of bullying. 

        Because while kids could target me for being too tan, there wasn’t a set of gender norms, sexual confusion, and societal expectation wrapped up in my skin color and the bullying wasn’t sanctioned by our country’s laws. I could never NOT be brown, but a gay kid can try and hide it, play it ‘straight’, hide it from friends and family, and internalize it when attempts to fit in fail to work.

        Bullying isn’t strictly a gay issue, but as it currently stands, I think it is affecting gay kids more.

        • BuffaloBarbara

          I’d wonder where that statistic came from.

          I had gay friends.  Also Jehovah’s Witness friends, and Mormon friends, and fat friends… the kids who got picked on were pretty much kids who didn’t fit the mold of whatever the school’s primary “identity” was.  Certainly poor kids who couldn’t afford decent clothes got teased mercilessly.

          My concern with making it a “gay issue” isn’t that gay kids aren’t effected, but that when the system is set up to assume “bullying”=”anti-gay bullying,” then those kids who are being bullied for other reasons won’t feel like they have a place to go, or anyone who will take them seriously.

          • Sobaika Mirza

            I saw it pretty recently, on Anderson Cooper’s show when they were talking about Jamey Rodemeyer.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

          I sometimes wonder if being gay isn’t masking these kids other problems, and that plays a part in the self-destructive statistics.  What I mean is, it’s really easy to chalk a gay kid’s problems up to being gay.  “Oh, he’s withdrawn because he just came out.”  “Oh, she’s so moody because she’s struggling with her sexual identity.”  As opposed to “Oh, those are serious warning signs of clinical depression and other mental illnesses, we should get him checked”. 

          The bullying would only add to the already massive problems of those kids, and the deeper internal problems aren’t being looked at because parents would rather not see mental illness in a lot of cases. 

          • BuffaloBarbara

            I think that’s a really interesting point–some of those issues may (or may  not) be rooted in not feeling like they belong due to orientation issues, but they’re issues in their own right, and great big warning signs that any stresses may be more, well, stressful.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        Here’s the difference for gay kids (as I see it):  most of us get to grow up.  I was bullied for virtually everything under the sun — essentially, I didn’t fit the mold and had no urge to try to.  But when I grew up and left high school behind, I was in a world that didn’t really care that much about my eccentricities.  And sure, there were still isolated times the same things came up in my life, but most of my life no one cared.  Yeah, I was stacked in high school and it was a source of amusement for my classmates, but when I got to college, it was the source of a lot of free drinks and that was all.  And it’s shown in the media that when you grow up, things change.  How many movies have shown the ugly duckling story? 

        When gay kids grow up, they don’t get to leave that behind — the rest of the world is more than happy to keep bullying them.  Neighbors, coworkers, family members… all of them can and do take the opportunity to continue that bullying for an awful lot of gay people.  There’s not a lot out there showing kids that when they grow up, being gay will be just wonderful.  Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum and Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter will still be there, just waiting to take the place of the jock behind you in English class.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah, but a lot of the people you just mentioned (well, Coulter, anyway) will also be there if you’re brown or have a funny name or a strange accent or whatever.

          To me – and I’m speaking as a straight woman here, so I really have no idea what I’m talking about – it seems like the scariest thing about being a gay adult is that you would be consistently forced to *choose* whether or not to hand your victimizers their weapons. Your ethnicity, sex, name and (sometimes) religion are difficult to conceal from those who would use them to hurt you. But your sexual orientation is something you could hide, so you’re constantly having to choose between suppressing a defining part of yourself or opening yourself up to hatred. (Gay folks on this blog, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.)

        • BuffaloBarbara

          What about the bullied plain girl who is ground into the dirt often enough that she believes any man she finds is probably her last chance, and she gets bullied through her entire adult life?  No one has a happy ending guaranteed, and most people don’t really believe in them no matter what their orientation is.

          If bullying is wrong for gay students, it is wrong for everyone.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            Oh definitely.  But I think there is some difference between gay kids being bullied and straight kids being bullied: one of hope. 

            Have you ever heard “Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem?”  That works — if you believe it’s temporary.  I have almost no memory of my life before the age of 8, when my clinical depression onset, so for me it never seemed temporary.  For gay kids, the misery that’s heaped on them probably doesn’t either, because they hear so much about the prejudices and unfair treatment aimed at gay adults.

            • BuffaloBarbara

              I think you may be overestimating how much hope it’s possible to build up.  I was bullied all through school, and, while I managed to avoid being in an abusive relationship, I know that I tend to be constantly fearful of everyone around me, mistrustful of people, and, well, as far as hope goes… I’m 41 and straight, and I’ve seen no reason to believe it’s going to get any better.

    • Anonymous

      “Tlo said: Glee could have had a lot of fun parodying the campaign and electoral process as we know it. Instead, we got these ads that were so far out of the bounds of reality that they became essentially meaningless.”

      It’s kinda hard to create anything more of a parody than the actual republican field or the teabaggers. For Glee to parody what’s going on, they really have no choice but to go that far off the scale.

      –GothamTomato

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1020680613 Aunti Laura

      This was the first time I could have watched an episode and didn’t from predicted boredom. We watched a rerun of The Big Bang Theory on TBS instead. Sad.

    • Anonymous

      “Tlo said: We don’t think there was anything remotely bad about what Finn said to Santana.”

      I don’t either. But I was surprised to see on twitter last night that some people were viewing her as a victim.

      I think the way they often treat gay bullying on this show, is the same way many people treat disabled people – as if they’re fragile or noble or different. But equality is equality, and if Santana is going to continue to be a nasty cow, it should be expected that she’ll be knocked back down. Being a ‘victim’ does not give anyone license to become a victimizer.

      –GothamTomato

      • Anonymous

        I agree. I worked with someone who was always pissed-off and an mean to everyone. When he called on it we were all supposed to not take it personally or feel sorry for him because his alcoholic dad was mean to him. One time I finally said you are being an asshole to me now not your dad so knock it off. 

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

          My response to that situation is always the same:  “I don’t know who you’re angry at, but it’s not me, so will you kindly stop taking it out on me?”  Most people back down when confronted with a really calm, rational response.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720742723 Sarah Winningham

      I find Kurt’s pledge to stop the horrors of dodgeball especially  hilarious because it was inspired by a secret match the students voluntarily arranged for themselves without supervision. I think it would’ve been fine if Finn had yelled all of that stuff in private, but surely his gay step-brother must have drummed it into him that publicly outing someone can ruin and/or endanger their life. And yay for Rachel, giving out pity fucks and pity political endorsements left, right and center because only selfish bitches pursue their ambitions.

      • Leslie Streeter

        Again…Finn was not calculatedly outing her in a premeditated act. He was acting like an assy high school student who had been pushed to his limit. He wasn’t thinking right. It’s horrible what he did, but in that moment he summoned what would hurt her, and gave it to her. He wasn’t in a place to think about his gay stepbrother and political appropriateness. He was acting like a kid, who struck back at a girl who physically attacked a weaker student. She dared him to try to top her in insults and he did. Why was her sexuality, which, again, was a surprise to few people at the school, off the table where every little other thing about others it not?
        And as was pointed out, an adult took that info and used it outside the school. Not Finn. And as for her being paranoid that every thing that someone whispers is about her…well, the bully got bullied. What that candidate did to her was hideous. He brought her into it. But Finn was awkwardly fighting back at someone who wouldn’t stop pummeling him.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720742723 Sarah Winningham

          I’m not saying it was unrealistic or maliciously motivated, just that Finn has had previous conflicts that should have trained him to know better, and someone’s life got seriously fucked because Finn wasn’t thinking, because Finn never, ever thinks.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve realized what it is that bothered me so much with the Santana/Finn showdown. Santana has always been ‘the mean girl’ (I think everyone’s a little too eager to throw around the term ‘bitch,’ which opens a whole different can of worms about how we see women), called that by everyone and even by herself. She’s not there to be friends with everyone, or even anyone. Her character is supposed to be mean and rude, and like she said in this episode, insults are almost like affection to her. That’s just the way she interacts with people. That doesn’t excuse her behavior, or make it any less hurtful or bullying. But the people who are her ‘friends,’ don’t they know that about her by now?

      Where as Finn is touted as being the leader of the group and everyone’s friend. And he just ISN’T. Everyone keeps saying he’s this great guy, but he’s not. He’s selfish and cruel and a bit of an idiot, and he just gets praised for it.
      I think that is why I have such a problem with Will as well…

      • Anonymous

        I really agree with you. Like it or not, there is a double standard based on expectations. Santana is a mean girl who has always insulted everyone, and the show portrays that as a bad thing – she’s an antagonist most of the time. Finn, on the other hand, is the good guy protagonist, and more often than not when he does something awful, he gets a pass because he’s “nice”, with minimal consequences. He and Will both generally get a pass from the show when they’re dicks. Hell, even in this episode when he’s talking about how it’s his fault that Mercedes, Santana and Brittany left New Directions, he’s quickly reassured that it wasn’t his fault – it was theirs for not wanting to be background players in their senior year.

        So yeah, Santana absolutely deserved to be taken down a peg, but the way Finn chose to do it was wrong, and I’m betting that he isn’t going to see much in the way of consequences for what he chose to do. And everyone will be right there to reassure him that whatever happens to Santana because of what he said, it’s not his fault.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720742723 Sarah Winningham

      Also, stop enjoying Hot For Teacher, Mr. Schuester, you’re already the grossest teacher ever!

    • http://visceralresponse.com Dina dV

      Hot for Teacher was great because it’s one of the greatest dumbass rock songs, ever.  And I say that as a compliment.  I love that damn song.

      But…Darren Criss just crapped all over the best line when he said “I think the clock is slow,” straight.  If it isn’t in DLR’s boozy and dipped in nicotine drawl it just sounds hollow.  I’ve been repeating that line for 25(?) years now and it never ceases to get a laugh of recognition.  Shum was a little better with “I don’t feel tardy?” but that song is just so hilarious because it’s a bunch of 30-somethings acting like teenaged horndogs.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MMOKMZXKMKZNYG73YE4JFFCQIM Jerry F

      I was actually relieved that Finn decided to attack Santana’s cowardice (remember, he didn’t call her any derogatory names related to her sexuality — hopefully having learned his lesson from his episode with Kurt in the first season — he called her a coward), because for a moment I thought he was going to punch her instead, taking us down a completely different track.

      I don’t think that anyone’s mentioned yet the layered portrayal of Sue this episode.  Sure, she’s over the top selfish and evil in most respects, but every once in awhile they provide an opportunity to show that deep down, she really cares about the students.  She enjoys tormenting them, sure, and using them for her own ends, and I think that in both cases she thinks that she’s somehow making them stronger by doing so.  But she doesn’t turn on a truly vulnerable child, and her relative softness with Santana when informing her of her outing is further demonstration of that.  Though seemingly inconsistent, I’ve actually found her to be quite consistent in that (the only big exception to that was during last year’s awful episode involving endangering the lives of her cheerleaders).

      As for the political ads, I’m still trying to decide whether it’d be more outlandish to imply that Burt Hummel married a donkey or that he was secretly born in Kenya but had a fake birth certificate and announcement forged in his name back then just in case he could get elected President forty-some years later.  At least the ads didn’t accuse him of being a practicing thespian and a confirmed homo sapien.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=502834383 Jennifer Marie Wegmann-Gabb

        About the political ads, my thoughts exactly!  I loved how outlandish they were.  They way ads in campaigns (by candidates and interest groups) have changed in the last ten years is dramatic.  I gets to a point that the only way to parody them IS to say such crazy things as baboon heart/brain and marrying a Donkey.  A realistic political would be boring and completely fall flat.   Besides, this a character who is campaigning against what she calls the frivolous arts and she is a cheerleading coach… 

        ::cue attacks for calling cheerleading frivolous::

      • Anonymous

        Except that Sue threatened to out Santana herself in the season premiere. Or, at least, that’s how I read her “You’ve always liked to play both sides” remark when she was convincing Santana to spy for her. Granted, had Sue done it it would only have been known to the school, not Santana’s parents or the whole state. So that’s a big difference. But I think Sue suddenly felt sorry for Santana here because Sue herself was getting a taste of her own medicine in the pizza guy’s attack ad.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MMOKMZXKMKZNYG73YE4JFFCQIM Jerry F

          I’m going to disagree with you on that.  I’d have to go back and rewatch the premiere to remember whether it seemed like Sue was truly threatening an outing or if she just said it in a way that fed Santana’s paranoia.  But in either case, I’d point out that what Sue threatens and what Sue actually does isn’t always the same, and that’s been shown several times in the series.

          In addition, there’s a difference between how Sue reacted with Santana here (with a soft, sad touch) and how it’s been established she responds when she’s just the recipient of mistreatment or comeuppance, which is to get angry and plan an outsized response (bringing a nuke to a knife fight).  It’s just my opinion, but I think it’s also consistent with her treatment of Kurt when he stormed her office — she’s not using Kurt to fight his father, and instead was encouraging him (in her singularly Sue manner) to “man up” in his own campaign.

    • http://twitter.com/anoel Ashley

      Wow. I COMPLETELY disagree. I don’t think Glee as a show thinks bullying is funny, once in awhile if the insult is really funny yes (the crop quote tonight) but mostly it’s trying to show all the troubles that these kids are experiencing. When Kurt gets thrown into a trashbin, that’s funny? I don’t know what world you live in, but that was always just sad and the way of life for sadly a lot of kids in the real world.

      I cannot believe for the life of me that you think Finn was justified. Are you KIDDING ME? It doesn’t matter if the whole school knows, NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO COME OUT WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT! It’d be one thing if he confronted her alone but in the middle of a hallway is unacceptable and frankly, disgusting. No matter how many insults someone throws at you (and he KNEW she was just messing with him), it is no excuse to out people in such a horrible way. Finn did OUT Santana, it IS OUTING even if people *think* they know someone is gay and if anyone could hear and tell people outside the school.

      I’m really disappointed in you guys. I’m sure you would never want that to happen to you just as I would never want it to happen to me. Shame on you both. I’m not going to keep reading these posts and I would really reconsider your view. Some things are not “just a TV show”. This is important.

      • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

        Honey, it’s not a Glee review if someone doesn’t register how “disappointed” they are with us. The line forms on the right.

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

          I’m disappointed in you too — I know Ryan Murphy secretly runs everything past you before he films it, and you didn’t make sure that it was exactly how I thought it should be to reflect only my worldview!

    • http://twitter.com/at_the_close Alice Huang

      Santana’s actions may not have been right, but she didn’t DESERVE to be outed before she was ready. Yes, her bullying should’ve had repercussions but it is never okay to out someone. Finn should’ve dealt with it in another way. He was completely in the wrong for outing her. And his retort that “everyone knows” isn’t an excuse. I’m surprised you don’t feel the same. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sonia-Pao/1481037298 Sonia Pao

      Can’t we agree that they are both at fault in this? Santana had a chance to stop (when Mercedes told her to), but instead she went for the gut (his feelings of inadequacy of not being able to do anything well). I think he kind of snapped and went for her most vulnerable spot. He obviously believed it wasn’t really an outing as pretty much everyone in the school knows. I would say that the real villain of the piece is that D-hole of a pizza guy. What kind of adult outs a teenage girl based off of a rumor he heard from his niece?

      • http://twitter.com/aStudiobytheSea Jody Lee

        A non-existent adult.  Because only in the Glee universe can someone use the image of a minor without their parent’s permission in a political advertisement.  It’s a bogus plot device by the writers.  

    • Lori

      Gee, so much meta-analysis.  Finn was pissed.  One of the things she said in front of the Glee Club was that he sucks in bed.  Finn has gone from the revered quarterback of the football team to someone who loves Glee and is willing to be Slushied for it.  His arc with Kurt was meaningful and laudable.  But Santana has been lobbing low blow after low blow at this kid, and he’s still a a kid in many ways, and he snapped.  That’s it.  He snapped.  If you have teens you know they lose it in a thousand ways for reasons good, bad and nonexistent. Finn has tried to do the right thing in every situation. The things Santana has said were so hurtful, especially telling his peers he sucks in bed, that it’s no wonder he lashed out.

      What pissed me off was an adult exploiting Santana’s sexuality for his own gain. That’s what made me angry, not what Finn did.

    • Anonymous

      Say what you will about Santana as a bitch/victim/whatever.  Naya Rivera can act/react like noone else’s business!  Look at her wrenching performance in “Landslide” last season and now in her Adele mash-up.  Maybe an Emmy nom in her future?

    • Anonymous

      The “I Can’t Go for That”/”You Make My Dreams Come True” mashup was just odd to me. You make my dreams come true and I can’t go for that? Nonsense! I love me some Hall and Oates and I did like how Tina, Rory, and Quinn all got a chance center stage on that number. Hot for Teacher was fun and the Blondie/Benatar mashup sadly lukewarm. Santana has a sort of slow-burning charisma in performances that sometimes doesn’t serve bouncier, more upbeat songs. The bullying stuff is just tedious at this point.

    • Anonymous

      I found the overarching principle of the episode to be that our words have consequences.  From Sue’s negative campaigning, Santana’s last diatribe to Finn (and it was horrible; she essentially told him that he was nothing and would forever be nothing), through to Finn’s outing of Santana (and I agree with TLo that the intention was to get to the root of her own cruelty, and make no mistake, she was capital C cruel), and finally to the egregious misuse of that information by an adult for crissakes, the show demonstrated that it’s never “just words”.  And I usually hold no brief for the messages of this show, but I found this one pretty impressive.

      However, I couldn’t get behind the Kurt take on dodgeball.  “Stoning”?  Really?  Given that there are places in the world where people are still stoned to death as punishment, dodgeball = stoning  did not play well.

    • Anonymous

      I think both Finn and Santana were jerks. While I’d consider Finn a definitive Nice Guy(tm), he doesn’t deserve to have Santana throw insults at him on a regular basis. And, while Santana is a classic Mean Girl, she doesn’t deserve to have her personal life brought up in the hallway. 

      Though, the politician who made that commercial is an awful person. That’s beyond Finn hitting back after lots of cruel words from Santana — the guy who made the commercial, his team, etc should be ashamed of themselves if they think attacking a teenager will be worth political gain. And I hope nameless political guy either disappears or has his ass firmly handed to him.

      I do have one question…Does Emma actually, you know, do counseling for these kids? Beyond “it’s okay to be a virgin forever” and “go to college, yay”? Because several of the glee kids could use something more than Schue, Best (Worst) Teacher In The World as an adult role model.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        Have you ever met a guidance counselor who DOES?!?  Most guidance counselors are there for things like “go to college, yay!” while schools have psychologists to deal with real issues.

        • Anonymous

          Well, my vague memories of school (graduated nearly 10 years ago WTF) include going to the guidance counselor for scheduling, pre-graduation stuff, anti-bullying stuff, and a few actual “counseling” sorts of things. Of course, my high school had four guidance counselors (who were trained as counselors, not just to recommend DRAMA CLASS) because I was in a very populated area; the schools where I am now share one counselor and one psychologist for each PART of the county (i.e., the closest high school and middle school and three or four elementary schools share, and at the other end of the county, there’s a similar situation).

          Though, really, if Santana’s dad is a doctor (as she mentioned during the Britney episode when the kids wanted to get high at Dentist Carl’s office), her parents should be able to pay for a therapist if she needs it. Hopefully a legit therapist, not a religious therapist/”Christian Counselor”.

          …And there I go, talking about these TV characters like they’re actual kids. 

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            I think most schools separate guidance counselors and psychologists, with a lot of smaller areas not having a psychologist at all.  And Emma doesn’t strike me as someone who would do a ton of true counseling anyway:)

    • Anonymous

      I’m about three episodes behind now so I haven’t watched this one. But I will say that some of my most painful memories of grade school center around dodgeball: being chosen last for teams *every* *single* *time* and then being clobbered by the bullies in the class. The thought of a dodgeball game makes me instantly sick to my stomach. I’d totally vote for someone who ran on a platform to ban it. 

    • http://jessieliz.wordpress.com/ Super Red

      I’m not entirely sure what I thought about this episode, but I know that I really loved your commentary on it. I enjoyed the songs, but was puzzled by “Hit me with your best shot.” On paper i really like using the songs and settings with each other, but this fell flat a little bit for me.

      I kept waiting for Chris Colfer to play the dodgeball stance with some amount of tongue in cheek, but no such luck. That was kind of painful to watch. Rah rah you shouldn’t bully people, and you shouldn’t throw a ball hard at them after the game is over, but really, Glee? You’re exactly right that it was played too straight.

      Loved Finn’s speech, and I think that the writers did it very carefully so that it was not Finn attacking her, but calling her out for being a bitch not BECAUSE she was a lesbian, but because of her own feelings about her sexuality. Similiar to Kurt’s message to Karofsky, just less angry and less from a place of having just had every insecurity you have about yourself just thrown in your face.   

      As the main character from day one, it seems that Glee doesn’t really know what to do with Finn other than use him as a foil for everyone else.

      Lots of missed opportunities here. ESPECIALLY with the political satire. Really sad that they went such a ridiculous route. Especially when the writing for the characters, as with the dodgeball speech, has been so straight. It would be easier to watch if people were treating Sue’s ad for how ridiculous they actually are, but the’re responding to them as though they’re serious ads. In reality, such ridiculous ads would be all over youtube and faceook and twitter and huffpst would have comedy gold making fun of it.

    • Anonymous

      Oh, so people know she’s mean ergo that makes it all right?  Give me a break.

      How was Finn selfish here?  And again, he didn’t tell other people Santana was gay–he told Santana why he thought she was mean.  He was overheard–as was Santana–and someone else told the political campaign.

      ANd, yeah, NONE of the characters are supposed to be saints.  Because A) that’s really, really boring and B) real people are a mixed bag.

    • Anonymous

      Sigh.  Finn was talking to Santana, not to other people.  Being overheard during an argument ain’t the same as deliberately going around and telling people so-and-so is gay.

      THis isn’t rocket science.

    • Anonymous

      Another example of where Glee wants to have it both ways, in this case to show it’s racially hip or post-racial and yet be able to make crude fun about ignorance:

      At the beginning of the show last night Puck makes a throwaway comment about Woody Allen’s wife, calling her “Chinese.”  Soon-Yi Previn is an American who was born in Korea.  Has hanging out with Tina and Mike meant nothing?  He doesn’t know by now that all Asians aren’t Chinese?

      And then there was the treatment of Coach Beiste in episode where the boys were using her as a mental prophylactic but it supposedly was all in good fun at the end.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

        Isn’t Puck supposed to be a moron, though?

    • http://www.fatladysings.us/ TFLS

      Just my point of view but……dodgeball can be used as a weapon.  Kids in my elementary and Jr. H.S. used it to ‘legitimately’ single out and hurt kids considered outside the norm.  And I mean really hurt – especially if the teacher/s didn’t give a damn.  That’s the ‘legitimate’ part.  If the teacher or coach thinks the kid singled out needs to be targeted (for any reason) – then anything goes.  I once needed stitches.  I saw one kid get his teeth knocked out – all while being ‘supervised’ by an adult.  I’m honestly surprised it’s still allowed in schools.  Wasn’t there a push to eliminate it some years back?  Because of the bullying issue?  Anyway – this episode notwithstanding – I think dodgeball is dangerous and should be banned across the board. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

        In our school, students no longer play dodgeball.  They still find ways to hurt each other in gym class, though.  It’s just not a very well supervised class.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

        Studies have shown that teachers reflect the social hierarchy of the schools the work inl

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

       

      Yes! I hate how
      we’re constantly told what a wonderful, upstanding young leader type Finn is
      when he’s actually a really horrible person. Sure, he’s a horrible person in a
      really low-profile way, in contrast to the way Santana lashes out at everyone.
      But man, he’s just a selfish jerk.

      I do think that Santana’s bullying has needed to be dealt with for awhile. Just
      because she’s a lesbian doesn’t mean she gets a pass on her own behavior. But
      the inconsistencies in this show drive me nuts sometimes, and if Santana’s
      openly considered a mean girl, could this show please just be honest and
      acknowledge what Finn is? Because it’s not a pretty picture.

       

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        I’ve never found Finn to be a horrible, selfish person — he’s just a teenage boy.  I think he does care about other people (standing behind Quinn during her pregnancy even after what she pulled on him, encouraging Rachel to do better even after they broke up, becoming close to Kurt again even after the predatory stuff, etc.) and I think he tries to do the right thing.  But I also think he’s a teenage boy and he doesn’t always have the best grasp on what the right thing is.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

          Shannon, my first reply is that I’d probably agree at least a bit with you if the actor actually looked like a teenager. :)

          I could live with the idea that Finn is just some random teenager boy, but the show has consistently told us that he’s a great leader. Well, no, he isn’t. I don’t think he’s even a decent person, frankly — I find him mediocre in almost every respect and totally lacking in courage or character. But again, maybe I’d be more forgiving of that if the writers didn’t constantly try to tell us otherwise.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            I think he’s a leader… for a high school.  Every high school team has its leader, and most of them suck at it — rarely do you find true leadership at that age.  And there have been a lot of times he’s come through, like when he FINALLY backed Kurt up in the first season.  Should he have done it sooner?  Yes.  But he did man up eventually, while a lot of kids wouldn’t have.  When he essentially told Quinn’s parents she was pregnant — a lot of teen boys would have been totally fine with hiding it for as long as they could.

            I know people pick on Finn for not looking like he’s underage, but the first time I saw him, I think he was about 19, so that’s the image I always have of him.  Besides, I was raised during the Saved by the Bell years, and those actors went through high school for 10 years!  I think I have a different expectation:)

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

              Shannon, you have a fair point: This is high school, after all. But I remember the episodes where he’s so often stood by as others have done the right thing (Sam and Mike and Artie getting on other athletes about homophobia, for example) or has even actively been a bad person (his entire interaction with Sam early on, urging Sam not to be perceived as gay because, horrors!, or the whole cheating/Quinn/huh? interaction), etc. He just rubs me very much the wrong way. It doesn’t help that the character, as written, is not very smart.

    • Anonymous

      Oh, I see I’m high because I like words to be used precisely.  The use of “privilege” here is used to gloss over and dismiss the particular of the individual character’s situation–i.e. Finn’s challenges somehow matter less because he’s part of a privileged class.  

      And you may think economic disparity isn’t the biggest inequality we face today, but given that it effects health, access to education, access to food, clothing and shelter and political power, I’d say your disagreement is less than convincing.  Your mention of the effect of the recession on African-American communities is a case in point–AA communities have been hard hit in part because they’re poor communities with a lack of access to healthcare, education, quality food, etc.  

      I have a big problem with wedging anyone into a category and then deciding that their issues have more or less merit as a result.  I think you can talk about a group’s advantages,  but it becomes reductionist quite rapidly.  Finn, as a character, is NOT more privileged than Santana in that he is likely to have less access to various opportunities than Santana.

      Which is a nice example, by the way, of how economic privilege triumphs over other privileges.  Providing Glee doesn’t get Santana thrown out (which is possible) of her home, the lesbian Hispanic character is much more likely than the straight white male character to go to a prestigious college and have a professional career.  

      Will there be challenges she faces that Finn won’t?  Absolutely.  But the reverse is true as well–and that is largely because of the economic disparity between them.  

      I think, perhaps, that you don’t live near the insanely rich–I do–and the disparity is shocking as is the extreme amount of political power.

      Maybe you need to see what real extreme privilege looks like.  

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

        One question and a few thoughts: Does Santana come from a wealthy background? I know at one point she said something about growing up in the hood, but who knows, maybe that was just her trying to put up a front.

        On the idea of privilege: I’m a middle class Latina. I grew up in a house where I never had to worry about my next meal, or about the car getting repossessed, or even about whether we could afford a vacation. And yet there were still a lot of things my parents (both of whom were born outside the 50 U.S. states) couldn’t give me. My mother, for example, had no idea how the U.S. school system worked, and she had a hard time advocating for me. She still feels horrible guilt about not knowing how to guide me through those waters. That’s something that someone like Finn probably doesn’t have to think about — his mother would presumably have grown up in this system.

        But you’re right, Finn’s economic hardship can really limit his choices and options in life. I remember a classmate of mine breaking down in English class once because her family was on the verge of losing their house. That stress was something I never had to experience (for which I’m truly grateful).

        All of which is to say: The Santana and Finn characters will each have their privileges and disadvantages in life. I don’t know that we can tell which has it better or worse.

        • Anonymous

          Hi Luciana,

          Santana’s father’s a doctor.  

          I’ve seen close-up what you describe–immigrant parents who want the best for their kids who just don’t know how to work the school system.  Depending where you are, that can be a huge disadvantage.  

          I said in another post that Santana’s ethnicity doesn’t seem to play a big part in her storylines–I’d actually like something that dealt with the immigrant parent split–we’re getting a little with Mike Chang, but it’s actually really rich territory.

          Well, maybe Glee will deal with it now that Santana’s been outed.  

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

            I have to admit, Santana’s ethnicity has been inconsistently treated on this show (SHOCKING, right?). This episode she was all, “my abuelita blah blah,” which came a little out of left field for me. It can also make a huge difference if she is, say, the child of immigrants, or the second or third or fourth generation of her family to be U.S.-raised. I’m Latina, but because I went to school here, if I ever have kids I’ll already know what a PTO is or what to expect from a parent-teacher conference. That was all new ground for my parents (you would not believe the angst my mother went through because she did not know how to make brownies, when every other PTA mom in town apparently did. Me? I’d buy some Betty Crocker and be done).

            • Anonymous

              Yep.  Glee is sloppy in that way.  The only time I’ve seen the show acknowledge the whole which-generation issue is with a minor Tina-Mike subplot.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

      Oops, that was supposed to reply to a previous comment. Apologies, guys! I do want to add, though, that a lot of how I feel about this episode will really develop as I see how they handle the fallout from what happened. I think they have an opportunity here to do something really interesting — or they might flub it, as they’ve done with other chances. We’ll see.

    • http://twitter.com/bitcaw Gina

      DESERVED it? Are you kidding? No one deserves to have a part of their personal life (see: PERSONAL) to be put out in the open. I don’t care how much of a bully they are – it is unacceptable. Also, it needs to be pointed out that Finn always gets a pass on everything he says, and he’s said some awful things, too. Some people may be thinking “what has he said?” And that’s the point exactly. No one notices. Santana is often scolded and called a bitch, even by herself. This is the difference. So anyone who thinks Santana is getting a pass is wrong. I really hope you take back that comment. No one deserves any kind of bullying – even bullies themselves. Finn went too far. And it’s not even about feeling bad for Santana. Why make that a factor in what happened? Anyway, I hope Finn finally gets reprimanded. His actions definitely to be addressed in some way.

      Also? Glee doesn’t just have a problem with bullying, it has a problem with EVERYTHING; badly written storylines to constant contradictions.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

        I’m sorry, I disagree strongly with this.  Santana has insulted every aspect of Finn: his body, his sexual ability, his singing, his masculinity, his girlfriend, his value as a human being.  After all, Santana has told anyone who will listen about what a lousy
        lay Finn is.  Talk about sexual humiliation.  He showed admirable
        restraint IMO.  He responded with, “You’re a closet case who is lashing out because of your self-loathing.  Stop being such a coward.”  Not hateful.  Factually true.  Desperately needed to be heard by her.  He was FAR kinder to her than she’s EVER been to him.  It’s not Finn’s fault that comment was overheard by someone who put it on TV. 

      • Anonymous

        So Gina, you’d agree then that Finn’s sex life should have been off-limits?  Remember, Santana brought up Finn’s sexual performance multiple times and actually used it to damage Finn and Rachel’s relationship.  And until the last episode, Santana actually *has* gotten a pass on it.

        This one was a case of Do unto others . . . 

      • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

        When someone insults your intelligence, your body, and your girlfriend over and over again and you respond to them by informing them that you think they’re a coward because their self-loathing makes them lash out? That’s not bullying. In fact, it’s so far from bullying that it does a disservice to victims of real bullying.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

          I’m posting way too much, so I swear I’ll shut up after this!

          I’m okay with him calling her a coward. I’m okay with him pointing out that she has some serious self-loathing issues. I’m even okay with him pointing out she’s in love with someone who doesn’t love her back. Fair enough, she’s done much the same kind of thing to him, and these are even things she should think about. But the whole thing about him calling after her to come out of the closet, in a place and manner that ensured lots of people would hear  — to me that’s qualitatively different, and that’s what went over the line. 

    • oohsparkley!

      As I watched part of the show, I just thought Wow!, Naya is a hell of an actor!  That girl is a STAR! 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

      For everyone who is defending Santana and saying Finn is the villain: imagine someone told everyone who would listen that you were the worst lay in the world, a fat, blubbery, sweating loser who would never amount to anything in life.  How much of that could you take before you went for the jugular?  And Finn didn’t EVEN go for the jugular.  He told her the truth.  Someone overheard it.  This does not make him a monster.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

        Okay, here’s something I interpreted a little differently. To me it seemed like he was calling out after her as she walked away from him — in other words, he would have been talking rather loudly, in a way that meant everyone within earshot would have been forced to hear everything, as opposed to a normal conversation that would require an effort to overhear.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

          As if she hasn’t broadcast to every human in a 100 mile radius the fact that he is the worst lay in Ohio.  Also, he said this in school, where everyone knows, pretty much, that Santana and Brittany are a thing.  It’s the fact that someone heard it from outside the school community, who used it for political ends, that was the issue, and that could have happened whether Finn said it or not.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=762848883 Luciana Lopez

            Her opinion on his skill in bed is just that — an opinion. And it’s not going to put him in danger (can you imagine a political attack ad about a high school boy’s sexual abilities?). In contrast, her sexuality is not his opinion, and it could lead to much broader repercussions. I felt it was at least strongly implied that the pizza guy’s niece hadn’t known before their argument, so the entire school didn’t know. I’m not saying Santana is a pure-as-the-driven-snow innocent. She’s a mean girl and a bully and the school authorities should have dealt with that long ago (notwithstanding Schue’s typically incompetent efforts). But I don’t think that means she deserved to be outed, either. No one comes out of this looking good, but I don’t think the situations are the same, either.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1046681022 Paula Berman

              Finn did not out her.  They had a conversation in the hallway and someone overheard. Can I imagine a political attack ad on Burt Hummel about Finn’s sexuality?  From Sue Sylvester?  Probably.  In the Glee universe, anyway. In real life, no, but I couldn’t imagine the Santana attack ad or any of the ad shown in this episode happening in real life either.  Is Finn a saint for what he did?  No, but he was pushed to it.  If you want to dish it out in such a virulent manner, you better be prepare for whatever is thrown back at you, and she wasn’t.  She certainly had no right to hit him in the face.

    • http://twitter.com/laylagalise laylagalise

      I agree with everything you said about Santana wholeheartedly. Her insults and bullying are exactly the reason that I loathe the character. It’s hard for me to sympathize with someone who treats everyone, even at time the person she is supposed to be in love with, so horribly. Every time I see her on screen I groan. 

      • Anonymous

        Hey! Off topic, but is that a Phantom Tollbooth photo there? RIGHT ON!!

        • chameka ponder

          sure is!  that’s the cover of the one we read in elementary school!

    • http://twitter.com/batneko Carly Dingman

      Wow, I could not disagree with you more here.  Finn didn’t mean to do what he did, but picking on her sexuality was incredibly cruel, and being outed is TERRIFYING.  We don’t know yet how Santana’s family will react, but her reaction sure makes it seem like it won’t go well.

      • Anonymous

        Santana picked on Finn’s sexuality first and in an incredibly cruel way.  He didn’t out her–he was overheard.

        Santana has repeatedly made other people’s sexuality a public topic.  In this case, one of her targets fought back.

    • elzatelzabelz

      I am really done with all the bullying storylines. yes, bullying is prevalent in American high schools, so is stressing out about exams, getting into college, etc. Also, they’ve made Santana into Sue-a caricature of a character. It’s gotten to the point that I don’t like it when Santana comes on the screen.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WKSM57KFWUGRMKPDUW4SPL3GDM Kathryn

      The insults are so brutal that it makes me wonder if the writers are acting out their own aggressions toward the actors.  This episode was hard to watch.  It has left me with a bad feeling.  For those of us who have been bullied I think it makes us relive it.  Maybe what I’m feeling is PTSD.  I am also getting so I don’t like Santana anymore and the character used to be one of my favorites.  I love Glee and never thought I’d feel this way but yikes.  

      • Anonymous

        THANK YOU! This was exponentially harder to watch than most of the season’s offerings. And not because it was lame or not-cool on some level.  It was ugly.  Also – someone please tell me how three self-proclaimed outcast/misfits of the school think they’ll win a student council election?  What planet is Lima on, anyway? That stuff was for head cheerleaders and quarterbacks – and, sixteen-and-a-half years later, their spawn.

    • http://www.fatladysings.us/ TFLS

      Common knowledge used to say that the best way to deal with a bully was to stand up to them.  My personal experience has shown that sometimes this does work (especially if there’s a social component – i.e. an audience of peers) – but sometimes it can backfire (retaliation – usually carried out in group form by the bully and his cronies).  I once successfully stood down a bully hurting a friend only to have that bully severely injure me at a later time when he had help and couldn’t lose.  I really believe nothing can be done unless someone in authority takes specific, across the board action.  Kick ‘em out of school.  Put them in jail if warranted.  Santana’s actions really walk the ‘kick her ass out of school’ line.  She’s vicious.  It’s always turned me off about that character.  Whereas the writers took the time to give Sue many positive traits (just when you think you hate her – out comes her sister or some other emotional component).  Santana on the other hand offers up precious little in the way of positive.  I cringe every time she opens her mouth.  It’s not entertaining…..at least not for me.       

    • Anonymous

      I couldn’t agree more, I found the way the entire troubletones treated Rory after dodgeball to be terrifying, none of them seemed to show the slightest bit of remorse until Kurt stepped in.  Then to have Santana yet again bully Finn in her round about way, she deserved to hear the truth.  I don’t think Finn is a monster, I think he told her what she needs to hear.  That slap at the end was jaw dropping.  To be honest, I’ve never liked Santana’s character, I’ve never gotten behind her and Britany either.  I find her to be manipulative of Britany, using her stupidity to her own advantage in getting what she wants.  I really can’t understand why people like her or feel sorry for her.  Just because she is a self loathing closeted lesbian doesn’t give her a pass for being a manipulative bitch.  

    • Anonymous

      Oh btw, for dramatic purposes, it would have been more fierce (better word?) if Santana didn’t have a look of regret after slapping the hell out of Finn’s face. I’m not saying violence, in whatever form, is acceptable; it’s just that it would have been a better conclusion to the episode, providing more emotional depth and clarity to Santana’s present turmoil.

    • Anonymous

      Does anyone else think that maybe, just maybe, Glee is twisted enough that the ‘new ad’ which hadn’t actually been released was a move by Schu and Bert to get Sue to back down?  I feel like the show is going really dark and they must have *something* up their sleeve to make light of it. 

      Not that ‘oops, we lied’ is going to make anyone feel better about this.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MMOKMZXKMKZNYG73YE4JFFCQIM Jerry F

      Interestingly enough, the day we started debating the believability of Sue’s donkey ad, doctored photos showing President Obama smooching various unsavory leaders started circulating. 

    • Anonymous

      I’m beginning to wonder what the show will do when they don’t have a gay character to out. 

    • http://twitter.com/WHoustonSt Zach Sifuentes

      Santana may be a bitch but I still don’t think it was right to say that in the hallway. There’s a time and a place. Should Finn have said what he did? Probably. Should he have done it there? No. 

      And the whole “Oh Finn says everyone knew already” isn’t a valid excuse to me. Obviously the girl whose father was running for Congress didn’t know or she would have told him about it sooner. Finn assuming that everyone knows and is okay with it doesn’t make it okay.

      That being said, Santana was worse than usual on this episode. Both were in the wrong big-time.

    • Now I am The Bee

      Well–I went to hight school so long ago that none of this stuff would have been discussed except for at pajama parties behind closed doors and in whispers.  I loved the Hot for Teacher number and that’s it. 

    • Anonymous

        Santana from the 1st season fought to not acknowledge her sexual leaning.  As the group walked and talked about what made a couple Brittany said if that was true she and Santana would be a couple.  Santana looked uneasy and dropped her hands.  (they had been holding hands and enjoying each other company)  The comment meant nothing  to Brittany.
           In the beginning Santana did not pick on Finn.   When did she start?  Santana offered to help Finn out by releaving him of his virginity; this would make him appear more manly, more of a leader, help him surpass Sam for the leadership position.  After the act he stated he felt nothing; and she appeared to be disappointed.  Did Finn say you’re my girl; I’ve never felt like this before?  Let’s run away and live on our love?  No, No, No.  They were both not fulfilled.   He wanted Rachel; she wanted to not love Brittany.

           Please note: Mr. Schu,”they have some powerful voices”  When did they become powerful voices?  When did the trio become something to be reconkened with? 

          Mercedes stated she had been up half the night working on songs.  After the epis.  when she said ok I’ll do the wardrobe she never appeared to be other than a member of the group.   When Mercedes said that she was the leader and was was backed up, she looked at Santana and said, ” You are a star member of this group.” Brittany said stop the violence.  Santana did not smile.   She  grinned.  When did or did Mr. Schu ever  tell anyone of them that they were star members of his group.  We are family,  now get behind our star.

           Quinn is sick, mentally.  She needs to be counseled and locked up with the female group from the 1st season. 

      The Trouble Tones care about each other even Sugar.  Notice When she said she just wanted to be on the winning team, last ep.  and how the backup singer stopped her from going to look for the wet towelette this episode.  When Santana missed her cue from that point Mercedes looked at her with concern.  Not for the song, but from what I saw from a concerned expression.

          The trouble Tones dress better; however, the bottom of Santana’s dress looked as if the ProjectRunway contestant (she knitted little flowers)  with Laura and Michael knight had contructed it. 
           Santana was wrong to ride Finn; Finn was careless with his remarks.  Not wrong, careless. 
           
           Sant

    • Anonymous

      T & L   Sorry  I’ve lost this mail twice.  its in the wrong place.  severe arthritis. 

    • Anonymous

      For me, the season has flipped the book on the much-lionized first season in an interesting way. I used to want to fast forward through the turgid musical numbers and love the comedy and small moments of high-school sized tragedy. Now it has this overwrought, oversized slices of tragedy, sparse and often off-the-mark comedy, and fucking great musical numbers. That Adele mash-up? Brilliant.

      And the best unintentional comedy of the night was easily Mercedes having “Adele” as the idea for the mash-up, and someone else saying “I love that song” in response. And then Mercedes acting like coming up with as brilliant an idea as “A strong female vocalist who is popular right now” took hours and hours of intense contemplation.

      • Anonymous

        Except in a group or at church with Kurt Mercedes has only covered African American singers.  I am almost 100% certain.   Does this show that she is growing with her responsibility as she has not been able to before the TroubleTones?  Please do not consider this a hint for Mr. Schu to rap.

    • http://toodles.yelp.com AWStevens

      I purposely didn’t read TLo’s review until now because this was one of my favorite eps. 

      I agree Sue’s ads were ridiculous but the ending was a big WOW with the Santana slap.  LOVED the “Hot for Teacher” intro.  LOVED the Adele mashup.  *sigh*  I understand the critique; it wasn’t a perfect episode and it was predictable (one can ALWAYS see what Rachel Berry is thinking thanks to Lea Michelle’s great acting /sarcasm out).  I honestly don’t know what I want from this show anymore.  But I do want to be entertained at least and I was…

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IHWCJIMARF4OOW6PQZQS3RFOOA JillK

      Ugh. This show is SO over for me.

    • Anonymous

      I want to toss a ball at Kurt’s head quite often.
      I have seen political adz nearly as bad. Satanic Sheep for one.
      I LOVED the scene where lil ol Finn reads Santana dead on. And she put on an Emmy worthy scene in the Adele mash-up and after slap. I kinda dig the storyline with her character but ya know I just don’t want to lose my snarky/mean Santana. Everyone else is so dull. Even Brittany is under utilized.

    • http://twitter.com/dashaann Dasha

      I don’t know why this is a zero sum game, for whatever reason, the writers of Glee have left us with a collection of jerkoffs desperately in need of being shaken and yelled at. Finn was wrong, but so was Santana. Half the time when I watch this show, I have no idea whose side I’m even supposed to be on because everyone comes out looking like an asshole.

    • Anonymous

      Finally getting to watch it tonight.  I have a dream…  that they’ll do a second musical this year, that musical will be “Wicked,” and April Rhodes and Rachel’s mom will “show them how it’s done” with a couple of numbers.  Am I so wrong to wish for that?  

    • Mariah J

      Who made the commercial outing Santana?? I know it wasn’t Burt or Schu, they aren’t cruel. This show is making less and less sense all the time, and it’s barely funny anymore. I’m almost done watching it. Totally agree Hot for Teacher and Rumor Has It were the best moments.