All On The Line S2E1: Angelo Lambrou

Posted on November 28, 2011

Better late than never, darlings! The holiday and ensuing carbfest and retail olympics have left us terribly behind on recapping this show.


Meet Angelo Lambrou, a talented designer who is something of a little lamb in the harsh world of reality television.

Which is an odd way to start off, because we generally think of this show as the antidote to harsh reality television, with much more of a focus on creativity and a willingness to let the story develop without the producers deciding the outcome. It’s just that Angelou really is a little lamb and we fear he’d find even Sesame Street to be too harsh for him.

We don’t know whether it was confusion related to the presence of the cameras or just a general, all-around sense of confusion in Angelo regarding what he was doing and why he was supposed to be doing it. He can’t be all that bad at his job (and we should add that we met him at the screening event for this season, which is making writing about him a bit difficult) because he has some decent work on his resume and occasional bursts of real design creativity. Joe’s job here was obvious: He needed to get Angelo focused both creatively and in a business sense.

We thought this dress had real potential. We laughed out loud at Joe’s description of “Tootsie Rolls.”

But this dress really stunned us. Dramatic and unique, it answered the question of why Joe was spending time working with this guy. There’s definitely something there.

Unfortunately, the bills aren’t getting paid and employees left and right are considering or in the process of jumping ship. It was a little sad because Angelo’s two assistants were genuinely sweet, devoted to the business, and yet fairly aware of where things were going wrong. They appear to have been so devoted to Angelo and so in awe of his considerable talent, that they couldn’t work up the nerve to tell him what they really think. Whatever the case, it was a fairly dysfunctional work situation involving some likable and talented people. Dr. Joe to the rescue.

First up: Angelo is ordered to create his dream bridal gown to show to bridally oriented queens Badgley & Mischka.

We have to be honest: we didn’t love this dress and we felt like everyone was being a bit on the polite side about it. The bodice was definitely gorgeous, but we didn’t like anything about the skirt; the heaviness, the shape, and the way it looks overworked.

Step 2: Force Team Angelo to watch from another room as a bunch of rich bitches tear through his clothes and point every reason why they’d never buy any of it. Their faces tell the tale here. To be fair, they seemed sincere when they said the feedback helped them. The general consensus from all the ladies was that Angelo’s work is too overworked, not very trend-oriented, and it skews somewhat (to very) older.

Step 3: Give him 3 weeks to design a mini-collection to show to the owners of edit, a very exclusive and chichi kinda place. Angelo is understandably thrilled at this opportunity. So thrilled that he buys a whole bunch of ugly fabric and makes a whole bunch of ugly clothes, with Joe coming in repeatedly to basically point at things and say “NO,” before walking out. This isn’t like Project Runway. Joe can’t go in and say “Change this collar and drop that waist and oh, the proportions concern me.” It’s not Joe’s job to make them better creatively; it’s his job to show them how to make themselves better creatively, which means he’s deliberately vague about why things don’t work. This was all a bit sad and painful to watch in a slow motion train wreck sort of way. Still, we hoped some of it was sinking in and that maybe he’d pull it together for the presentation.

He didn’t.

The top is really pretty and unique, but given all the problems of putting this collection together and arriving at the presentation space two hours late, we couldn’t help wondering if it was really supposed to look like that or if it was just unfinished. We agreed with the edit ladies that the proportions on the pants were problematic.

Again, some problematic pants and a top that looks interesting, but unfinished. Keith really liked that jacket, and we mostly agreed with him on that, but it did funny things to her shape, especially from the side.

Edit lady was spot on when she said it was two entirely different dresses stitched together. Oh, Edit lady. Haven’t you seen the red carpets lately? Frankendresses are trending. Anyway, we thought either side was potentially interesting, but that they didn’t go together. We also weren’t in love with that fabric.

How ironic is it that he’s showing this collection to the ladies who own a store called “Edit?” Could there possibly be a better example of his overwhelming need to edit than this top? That hem is just horrible-looking and the way pieces just flap around near the shoulders is comically bad.

Again, we wonder if this is just unfinished. Sure looks it.

Pretty, but nothing that jumps off a hanger and into a shopping bag without a thought.

Edit lady used the dreaded “commercial” to describe this and we have to admit, as stinging as that euphemism is (“Department store clothes,” essentially), she nailed it. Pretty, but not “exclusive boutique” pretty.

Sad to say, the Edit ladies backed quietly away and started frantically pushing the elevator button. No orders would be placed. Joe was a bit on the nonplussed side and we can’t say we blame him.

He seems very kind and creative, but he definitely blew this opportunity. There was little about him at the end that seemed any different from how he was presented in the beginning. A bit of stubbornness in this one, like a lot of creative types. It’s kind of a shame that this episode aired first in the season, because we think it was just a little on the depressing side. It would have been nice to start off with a triumph, but then again, we really appreciate the fact that the producers don’t try to craft feel-good stories out of the footage.

[Screencaps: tomandlorenzo.com]

    • Anonymous

      Thank you for the reminder!  With the holiday and all, I forgot to watch or record this show, so now I’ll look for a rerun and put the new episodes on my list.  Because I really enjoy this show and am a little bit in love with Joe Zee.  I know, I know–he’s not on my team. But the heart wants what the heart wants…

      • http://twitter.com/urban_gypsy Urban Gypsy aka Tess

        I watched it online here - http://www.sundancechannel.com/all-on-the-line/videos/?playlist_id=1290836704001&play_video=1281518096001#video_section I felt sad for the poor little lamb; he seemed like a genuinely sweet and creative person without a hint of business sense. The fact that the women working for him were so devoted was really heartwarming. I hated that you pretty much knew it was going to end in a train wreck, but loved that it seemed so much more real than PR. 

        • Anonymous

          Squeee!  Episodes online!  Thank you!

        • Anonymous

          I thought of him as “the eaglet.”

    • Anonymous

      I said it on the other AOTL post, and I’ll say it again here: I mostly enjoyed the episode but found it offputting that Joe Zee (and occasionally others) repeatedly referred to full-grown women as “girls.” I don’t know if that’s standard in fashion. To this viewer, Joe seemed sexist and patronizing.

      • Anonymous

        Honestly, I think that’s just fashion talk. Believe me, no one is more offended than I am when people who happen to be your boss or your coworkers or whatever use that demeaning term for women!  But I hear it used in the fashion world ALL the time.  Especially when talking about models.  I don’t think Joe is sexist at all.  I could be wrong, of course.

        • Anonymous

          I surely hope you’re right. But as I recall, in the final moments of the show, Joe acted shocked — shocked — that one of Angelo’s assistants (“girls”) had better judgment than the designer himself. That didn’t seem surprising at all given the many bad decisions we saw Angelo make. But Joe’s attitude about it, in combination with the term he used to talk about these women, definitely made me think less of him.

          • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

            Why wouldn’t he be shocked that the assistants have a better grasp of the company’s problem than its head?

            • BuffaloBarbara

              Mostly because he’d already spent enough time with Angelo that it shouldn’t have shocked him anymore.  But I don’t think it had anything to do with the assistants themselves, or their gender.

            • Anonymous

              I think it would have STILL been shocking that despite having the issues pointed out to him repeatedly, and being offered this golden opportunity to put things right, he couldn’t or wouldn’t do anything to take advantage of it.

              –GothamTomato

        • Anonymous

          I don’t know that he’s sexist or deliberately insensitive. But he, like many people in fashion, don’t think.  Or they believe that their world is somehow immune to examination or that the values and mores of the outside world do not apply.  The world without which they could not survive.

          The excuses:  NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

          This is why, although I’ve taken a number of construction technique classes and know a fair amount about fashion history, I will never be a fashionista.  Fashion people care nothing about the advancement of women.  Left to fashion people, women would be wearing 8-inch heels and carried around on palanquins. 

          Fashion people are always going on about the Duke Windsor’s impeccable fashion taste without once mentioning that the guy was a Nazi sympathizer.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            Where do I sign up to be carried around?  ‘Cause honestly, I could go for that trend:)

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        I’d rather be called a girl than ma’am…

        • BuffaloBarbara

          What’s wrong with “ma’am”? It’s the feminine equivalent of “sir”–what else do you call a woman whose name you don’t know?  Some take a lot of offense at “Miss” and you don’t just say, “Hey, lady!”

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CQPXLNCBM5CZSHZZXJDHPVFS7E Buffy

            I can’t read “hey, lady!” without hearing it in Jerry Lewis’ voice.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            I’m getting fine lines on my forehead (that only I can see, but they’re there, trust me) and fast approaching 30… I prefer anything that makes me seem younger.  I’ve been known to want to hug people for carding me…

            • Anonymous

              We all love that. We all want to be cute forever. But calling someone a “girl” in a business context is disrespectful, undermining and infantilizing.

              His assistants appeared to be two delightful, competent, very attractive young women who were uncommonly loyal.

          • Anonymous

            YIKES! THe first time someone calls you ma’am, it’s like taking a bullet!

            –GothamTomato

            • Marie Moler

              Ha, the first time I was called ma’am I was a senior in high school and was in charge of getting a gaggle of freshman to organize cafeteria tables.  The gym teacher laughed for about five minutes straight when she overheard the kid.  He was a very polite young man.  

            • Anonymous

              Indeed. But in the south, they start calling you ma’am really early, so I’m used to it.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EDI2DLE7DE3YPW2ONIHBWOVHMA ecallaw

              I call people “ma’am” all the time, regardless of age.  It doesn’t mean that someone is older than you, it just denotes respect. I grew up in Tennessee, but I’ve lived in Michigan for the past 9 years, and I don’t think I’ve ever offended anyone by calling them ma’am (I hope).

            • Anonymous

              I think  the first time someone called me ma’am I looked around to see who they meant. Yikes, indeed!

            • Rei Carter

              I’ve always felt proud of the Ma’am, like I’ve earned the respect I suppose. Then again, I’m really looking forward to my fabulous later years. 

              That being said, I don’t typically find “girl” to be insulting. “Girls” to me is just lady version of “Guys”.

        • Anonymous

          If you’re offered a job, do you want the “girl” rate?  If grow old and don’t die, sooner or later someone will address you as “Ma’am” or “Miss”  or say something that signals they realize you are older.  No matter how good you look.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            If I’m offered a job for less than I’m worth, I’m turning it down — regardless of why I’m offered too little.  They can come up or they can settle for less.

            And I know I’ll grow old.  Doesn’t mean I have to like it.  I quit smoking because I got a laugh line that no one else could see, and smoking dries out the skin leading to more wrinkles around the house.  I really am that vain.:)

      • Anonymous

        I don’t think it was sexist or patronizing at all. There are some situations where it would be. But in this case it isn’t. Just like in dancing, this is an industry in which it is common to refer to men and women as boys and girls.

        –GothamTomato

        • Anonymous

          I don’t like the use of “boys” to refer to men, although it’s not the problem it is for women.  I don’t understand why ballet dancers put up with it either.  Models and dancers are notoriously treated like children. 

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            In part, that’s because they frequently ARE children — there are an awful lot of 14 year olds walking the runways, and dancers have a short shelf life.

      • Anonymous

        THANK YOU. I had the exact same reaction.  And I’m tired of all the cr__ about it being the done thing in the fashion world.  That world has as a disproportionately high number of gay people, usually men.  If I heard people using insulting language to discuss them I would not tolerate it.

        “Girl” is not as bad as a homophobic slur, but it is infantilizing and pejorative.

        • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

          It’s not for us to tell anyone what they can and can’t feel insulted by or find offensive, but to put this in context, we’re each probably close to twenty years older than both of the young women in this episode and every single time we’ve ever seen Joe, he referred to us as “boys.” “How are you boys doing?” “Good to see you boys again!” That sort of thing.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            Guys, you hang out with more fashion people than I do, so I’m sure you can tell me if I’m off base here.  I assumed that most of the “girl/boy” thing came from the fact that this is an industry that uses ACTUAL GIRLS to sell products, so in many cases, the term is probably accurate.  Add to that the fact that this is an industry ALL ABOUT youth, and for them it’s quite possibly complimentary. 

    • https://profiles.google.com/104791269167429064986 Judy S

      Now, by way of contrast with Project Accessory, your post has really made me plan to watch the show. I will have to try to pick up this episode because I kind of like some of these clothes and definitely want a better look. I must admit that last season I got discouraged by the designers who did not hear Joe and ended up with no sales, so thanks for the reminder about Radenroro in your other post.

    • scottyf

      T&Lo said…
      “This isn’t like Project Runway. Joe can’t go in and say “Change this collar and drop that waist and oh, the proportions concern me.” It’s not Joe’s job to make them better creatively; it’s his job to show them how to make themselves better creatively…”

      I get that…I really do. It’s just that…

      I have to watch a couple more of the later episodes of Season One. I’m just not feeling Zee at this point (although I’d still like to feel Zee *giggle*). I found him to be almost shrew-like in his behavior. I understood, and agreed with mostly everything he said. I just vehemently disagreed with how he said it.
      To your point regarding his role on the show: I was really taken in by his handling of Liquica & Andrei in the first episode of last season. The excursion to Time Square was a stroke of genius, and really seemed to trigger an “aha” moment for both of them. Telling Angelo to make a collection based on his wedding dress seemed to be counter-productive to him having a similar revelation.  He liked the idea, but he wasn’t in a place where he could actually translate that into concrete, forward thinking designs. Having him come into Angelo’s work room and simply say “I don’t like it!”; badger the guy and then storm out, wasn’t making the guy’s designs any better. Unfortunately I started getting the same kind of vibe that I got from his handling of Jedda-Kahn in S1E6.  I think he’s very good with people who have a clear aesthetic, and have just gone down a dead-end path. I don’t find it entertaining to watch him bully and cuss at people who really need a different approach to move in a different direction. I’m not saying that’s his job, but I find it much more insightful and entertaining to watch.

      I can’t say I’ll watch the entire season, but I wouldn’t miss his handling of Ms. Q next week for ANYTHING.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5LU5C262WB3Z5F4WZ6QGKXLNLE JaneM

        I’m surprised you guys didn’t mention Zee’s dismissive treatment of “the girls”, as in “girls, get us a chair”.  I was truly expecting him to tell them to go for coffee next.

        And while I appreciate that not every episode has to be a feel good hug from the success gods, this was a really sad episode to start with, watching that guy’s dreams explode on Thanksgiving weekend. Save it for later.

        In the other season, the people who failed were assholes anyhow, so there was a sense of justice at play.  This was just sad.

        • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

          You’re surprised that we didn’t mention that Joe treated Angelo’s assistants like assistants?

          • http://beautyforrealgirls.blogspot.com/ accidental housewife

            /snerk/

            Yes, exactly.  I guess he could have asked Angelo to get the chair, but that’s the kind of thing assistants are supposed to do. I’ve been an assistant enough times to know that.

            I was put off by Joe calling the assistants “girls”, but he treated them respectfully and valued their opinions.

          • Anonymous

            Sorry, TLo, his calling them “girls” was not acceptable. 

            Besides, they were more like partners than assistants. They knew more about the nuts-and-bolts of the business than the boss. (C’mon, you’re on a REALITY SHOW and don’t know how much your own clothes are being sold for?) And they weren’t even being paid.

        • Anonymous

          How was Joe dismissive? If he was dismissive, he wouldn’t have spoken to them independently, to get their opinions. And it WAS shocking to see that they knew more about the business than he did.

          I loved that he asked for the chair and asked the model to sit down. THAT was practical feedback in action right there. While this episode didn’t come complete with a happy ending, it had a very important and common message about the organization and direction of an artist. As for the justice previous failures being assholes; the reality is, most of the biggest successes are also the biggest assholes. There is no justice in success; only in After School Specials.–GothamTomato

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            *cough* Lagerfeld *cough*  *cough* Galliano *cough*

            Oh sorry, must have something in my throat….

      • BuffaloBarbara

        I tend to agree that his advice could be more useful.  If Angelo knew where he was going wrong, he probably wouldn’t have called for help.  Just a few notes of, “This color isn’t on trend” or “Your work is really overworked here” is useful.  Last season, he gave the very specific advice of dropping the number of seams to bring down the price point–the kind of handy thing that would be what sinks artists trying to make a living in the commercial world.  Not giving any feedback about what’s going wrong isn’t terribly helpful.

        • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

          Joe didn’t give very many specific critiques, but both the color and the overworked stuff was remarked upon by him.

          • scottyf

            Again, I’ll have to watch later Season 1 episodes to see if my opinion remains the same, but it just feels like the producers and the show are still finding their way in regards to focus. Initially it felt like the focus was upon capitalizing on Joe’s expansive expertise, innate mentoring ability and specifics that the designers may have missed. It felt like a show about a tough love professional steering designers towards their best potential in the Business of Fashion. Right now, however, it feels much more like: “Watch screwed-up designers get on Joe Zee’s last nerve.”

            Either show is fine…I just really enjoyed watching him get specific with folk. I learned a lot. I’m less interested in watching the latter.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1177755257 Lisa Weaver

              I totally agree with your assessment – I remarked to my daughter that it seemed like Joe Zee was having a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. No guidance, just plenty of being PO’d throughout the entire process.

      • http://profiles.google.com/denise.alden Denise Alden

        I’m waiting for Ms. Q’s turn, too!

      • Anonymous

        I didn’t see him bully and ‘cuss’ at them. What I saw was the frustration of someone who came to help an artist and was thwarted by the artist’s inability (or unwillingness) to appreciate the opportunity he was being handed. Seriously, two fucking hours late???!!!

        –GothamTomato

        • scottyf

          He most certainly does cuss at Angelo. At the buyer’s meeting, on his cell as he tries to find out where they are, he uses profanity. I’m not saying that Zee shouldn’t be pissed. I’m not even saying the words weren’t apropos. I AM saying that it isn’t fun for me to watch, and that for me it makes it much more about his own personal frustration than about the designer. If I recall Liquica & Andrei were also late in the first episode of last season, but I do not remember him berating them for it. He’s human, he has a different rapport with different designers.

          It just happens to be a side of him that I don’t find very attractive or entertaining.

          • Anonymous

            You mean when Angelo was two hours late and kept giving excuse after changing excuse (and after weeks of Angelo’s hapless behavior)? I thought Joe was pretty tame.

            –GothamTomato

            • scottyf

              Here’s my bottom line GT: As talented, influential and hot as i think Joe Zee is, he doesn’t walk on water. 

              Yes, there is no question that Angelo’s tardiness was unprofessional and maddening. But for a man of  Zee’s caliber, stature and maturity to meet that behavior with expletives and tirade is even more so, in my opinion.

              It’s one of the things that actually intrigues me about the series. Consciously, or unconsciously it shows a successful person who can be as dysfunctional as the rest of us. 

              I’m just not going to applaud him for it.

            • Anonymous

              Urm, who said he walks on water?

              And you don’t have to applaud him for using expletives, but if you think that’s an indicator of dysfunction, you might be too delicate for the real world.–GothamTomato

            • scottyf

              Too delicate for the real world.

              Yes, I think you’re right. That must account for my only making it for little less than half a century as Black man in America. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

            • Anonymous

              Nice try.

              –GothamTomato

        • Courtney Harris

          Joe’s use of expletives made me love him even more.  And it was all justified.

          • Anonymous

            I found the cursing funny.  But if you’re push, you also have to pull.  I think he falls down in terms of the latter and sets them up by not giving them enough time.

            He may not intend it, but he doesn’t seem to be totally benign.  Haven’t you ever had a boss who pretended to be criticizing you for your own good, but it was really just a pretext to rip you apart because s/he hated you?

            It’s very easy to pick apart someone who is vulnerable and at the mercy of Reality TV cameras and editing.  If it continues to no purpose I’ll be checking out.

      • Anonymous

        I agree, the exercise did not work.  For one thing, you can’t make a truly couture wedding dress in two days.  Especially one that’s supposed to be a departure from your established path.

        • BuffaloBarbara

          I’m not sure it was supposed to be a departure from his normal wedding design style–I think what Joe Zee wanted was to have him throw all of his regular elements into something he was used to doing, then examine it and see what else could be made using those signature elements.

          • Anonymous

            I’d have to go back and watch the episode.  I thought Joe Zee pushed him pretty hard to go over the top. Angelo L’s style seems fairly simple and classic.

            In any event, I thought the dress was too much.  But with two days to conceive and execute it, it’s not at all surprising that there was a misfire.

    • Anonymous

      i’m continuously stunned at the seemingly lack of talent in this show…….??? these people ‘work’ in the ‘fashion business’ with these creations?? i don’t see how, at all. from your posts last season, i’ve only seen a few things i truly covet, and i suppose i expected more out of the ‘designers’ ‘in’ the ‘industry’…………..someone clarify, if you can. (i’ve never seen the actual show.)

      • Anonymous

        I’ve never been overly impressed with much of the design talent in this show or Project Runway (with certain exceptions).  I take classes at FIT and see a lot of very talented, extremely hard working design students.  This exposure makes me that much more impressed by successful businesses that manage to produce attractive, quality clothes year after year.  It’s obviously very hard.

    • Anonymous

      I love it when JZ gets all snippy and dominatrix-y. I always picture him being younger at the door of a club and having a melt-down if he has to wait to get in. “GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER, BLANCHE. I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR 45 MINUTES.”

    • Anonymous

      I took one look at Angelo’s wedding dress and thought he’ll never be able to design a complete collection inspired by that.  Sadly I was right. 

      Until Angelo is able to understand his strengths and weaknesses I think he’s going to have a difficult time staying in business.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        If you were talking about a true collection, that would be true, but he only needed a few looks — he should have been able to pull enough together for it.

    • Anonymous

      Angelo looks like John Turturro to me.

      Felt bad for him at the end when Joe gave him a glimmer of hope when he asked the elle.com guy and edit owners if they would be featuring him..  :(  

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7DDBWDEQZA3OUS4S6MEMDEKWQ4 chhivt

      Love Joe’s outbursts at Angelo.

    • BuffaloBarbara

      I remembered to watch, so I followed the recap.  Yay for me!

      I was also a little underwhelmed by the overworked wedding dress, but, to be fair, Joe Zee (which I kept hearing as “Josie” whenever they said it and thinking I’d missed one of the assistants) did tell him to go over the top so that he could then mine the design elements for a RTW collection, so it wasn’t really designed to be a coherent dress itself.

      I kept wanting to take Angelo and shake him–you didn’t call for help because you were doing things right!  When the person you call tells you, “Wrong, wrong, wrong,” then it’s time to re-think.  The whole, “I just want to not do bridal wear, even though it’s what I do” also struck me as a bit bullheaded, given that he has other people depending on his success for their livelihood.  (If he hasn’t paid these people in months, how in the world are they paying their rent?  I’ve investigated NYC rental prices, and they must have someone with SERIOUSLY deep pockets paying their way if they can live without a substantial, regular paycheck.  I don’t understand how most people live there on normal and reliable paychecks.)

      Frankly, if I were the edit ladies, I’d have cancelled the appointment when he was late.  They’re doing a pretty big favor.  It’s probably just the fact that national exposure means tourist visits to supplement the usual rich bitch market that kept them on board.

    • Anonymous

      Check out the reviews for his bridal business—they’re entirely glowing-bordering-on-rapturous, and comment on both his professionalism and his designs. I think he blew this opportunity but it’s easy to see from these reviews why Joe Zee chose to work with him. http://nymag.com/listings/stores/angelo_lambrou/

      • Anonymous

        Thanks. It suggests to me how easy it might be for the Reality TV process to distort things, especially if the designer is doing something unusual. And let’s be honest, Angelo Lambrou was probably selected by a producer (at least the first cut), not Joe Zee. 

      • Anonymous

        I seems that Angelo’s strength is his bridal business, but he’s not resigned to concentrating on that. 
        Just my two cents, but I liked his over the top wedding gown.

    • Sandra Oh

      It was a downer start for the season but it’s the harsh reality of life.  I think because of his bridal success, he’s incapable of really changing.  I agree with ppl who says he needs a business manager to direct this business but I don’t think in the end he would really allow that person the power to control the business.  He should grow his bridal business like Amsale rather then trying to be the next Vera Wang.

    • Anonymous

      Angelo should stick with gowns. But why anyone would go on this show to be bitchslapped by Joe Zee for an hour is beyond me. He has taken the concept of honest feedback to a whole new level.

      • Anonymous

        Some time ago, a blog I read announced the auditions.  I said, Have you seen this show?  Why would anyone do that to herself or himself?

        I’m obviously not a designer desperately trying to stay afloat in a terrible economy.

    • MilaXX

      Slow motion train wreck is the perfect description for this episode. Poor Angelo just didn’t get it. I felt bad for him. That wedding dress was okay up top, but from the waist down it was too busy. His collection was full of either okay or ugly.

    • Anonymous

      Kind of icky overall, except for the first few. I don’t know, it all looks a bit cheap, no? 

    • Anonymous

      “Tlo said: We have to be honest: we didn’t love this dress and we felt like everyone was being a bit on the polite side about it.”

      Yes, and the look on Badgley (or Mishka’s) face (I can never remember which is which) said it all. 

      And that tootsie roll dress: I thought Joe was being kind on that one. It’s something that you could have found in any department store in the 70′s – only better. And it wasn’t even flattering to the model.

      I didn’t get the divorce dress. You’d think the point of a divorce dress would be to make the ex green over what he’s missing (the perfect example of that being that dress Princess Diana famously wore the night Chuck told the world he never loved her.) This ‘divorce’ dress was just ho-hum. 

      Lack of organization is a major problem for most artists, so I totally get that (just look at the messes that Annie Liebovitz finds herself in, even with all her success and talent; and look at all the singers who lost the publishing rights to their songs, or designers who lost their names).I have never met an artist who doesn’t need help with the business side of their work. It’s a shame he doesn’t want to stick with the wedding gowns when he’s been so highly rated for them.

      –GothamTomato

      • Anonymous

        Tootsie Rolls?  Slugs. 

    • Anonymous

      I watched the ep and didn’t get the love for the Odalisca jacket at all.  Maybe it just needs to be buttoned, but they way they showed it, it just looked awkward and weird to me.

      I’m glad they show less Keith.  I’m sure he’s great at what he does, but he’s as boring as all get-out on TV.

      • Anonymous

        I liked Keith last season.  But the exchanges with Joe seemed so artificial, also slightly condescending and superior.  Two guy fashion editors, back at the ranch, agreeing with each other.  So reasonable.  Such discerning taste.  He played what I think they call in drama a “utility character.”  I think it was the persona and the set-up, not the person.

      • http://www.GiftedCollector.com Nancy Abrams

        I had never seen this show before this episode, so I’m not familiar with Keith. However, I was shocked by the state of his own jacket. This is a fashion editor? His collar was ripple-y and the sleeves were bunched up above his biceps. It looked like he had borrowed it from a smaller man who could not afford quality clothes.

    • Marie Moler

      I do enjoy this show, even if I do fast-forward through some of the more uncomfortable parts. 

      Do fashion design programs not require any business courses?  It seems that a few small business classes (emphases on management, money, and legal issues) would do everyone a world of good.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        You’re adorable — virtually no degree program that isn’t in the business department requires business classes.  And most art people aren’t interested in business so they don’t take them.  The same is true of most specialized degrees — my brother the programmer had to borrow my accounting books when he was trying to run a business because he’d never taken a single class in the business department.  A friend is an optometrist, and spent more than 200K on that degree — and has to hire people to run her practice for her because she has no idea how to run an office, balance the books, or handle malpractice insurance/cases.

        • BuffaloBarbara

          That was what I guessed.  It’s too bad–especially in an industry where the goal is to have your own business (don’t most of them want to have their own labels?), it probably *should* be required.

      • Anonymous

        Such classes are definitely offered, but I don’t think they’re required.  Many design students are like college students everywhere; they don’t want to focus on the ugly realities of making a living post-graduation.  I once heard a professor tell students that if they wanted to start their own business and didn’t have immediate access to capital (and, I guess, business managers), that they should work at least 10 years at a company to get experience.

        Some things have to be learned in the real world.

    • http://twitter.com/starvewars Sal

      love this show..thanks for the reminder to watch it. i think the entire process for him were ‘off days’, nothing worked right for him. he could have benefited from taking some time to recollect himself and plan smartly. although i did notice his stubborn side when his assistant tried telling him velvet was too old looking for clothes. but how crappy was it that his design assistant was missing the entire time so she can go to interviews – another sign that it wasn’t the right time. really can’t wait and am excited for Qrystil’s episode.

    • Anonymous

      I am watching this season because of you guys, and as usual, you are spot on. He was like a little sweet lamb I wanted to shake the shit out of. Dude! Come one! This is the chance of a lifetime! And you can’t pull it together?! What’s wrong with you?!?

    • Anonymous

      Angelo does what designers seem to do when given criticism–disagreed with the critic and do what he wanted anyway. He did that with the dress that had the odd waist thing going on. B&M seemed to have to force themselves to give any praise to the dress, because their faces said they were stumped. Angelo seems a genuinely nice guy, I hope he gets it together at least enough to pay his employees.

      • Anonymous

        I can’t imagine how defensive I would be in that situation.  Some people need to push back against criticism, regroup, and then figure out a way to assimilate the notes, assuming they’re valid.  But this is Reality TV and the deal is that you get trashed by Joe Zee unless you are sufficiently famous to get the kid gloves treatment, which means the animosity is directed at someone else.

        It’s not especially or always constructive, but it’s not supposed to be.

    • Anonymous

      Wow, the mini collection for ‘Edit’ appeared to be very amateurish, leaving me very conflicted since his wedding collection is so successful. If this designer is to be successful in the ready to wear arena, he needs to put in the time and research to understand that market (obviously he put in the time to understand the wedding category and on a limited basis with the celebrity red carpet). This was the first time I have watched the show since the Sundance Channel is not offered by my cable provider – I remember Joe Zee from ‘The City’ – I guess that is where he cut his reality tv teeth (loved the epic Erin vs Olivia battles – best part of that show).

    • Anonymous

      I’m not a huge fan of Joe Zee, but this installment, which I happened to catch last night, was pretty funny. I enjoy your summaries. 

      Some questions:

      1.  Why did Zee keep referring to the sweet but adult assistants as “girls”? It was insulting.

      2.  Why three weeks to do a career-changing collection? Why not two months? Or three?  I know the designer was financially strapped, but that doesn’t seem to have been the reason.  The show always seems to create drama by rushing the designers.

      • http://beautyforrealgirls.blogspot.com/ accidental housewife

        I was also asking question #2. Three weeks was a crazy-short amount of time, especially considering it was for a collection with which he would be changing his focus. Also, three days for that wedding dress? I don’t even know how he managed it.

        I seem to remember the same thing occurring in the first season. It’s the only complaint I have about AOTL.

      • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

        Giving each designer several months to put their collection together is unrealistic, given the vagaries of television production schedules. Remember: this isn’t Project Runway. Almost all of the designers on this show utilize seamstresses and support staff.

        • Anonymous

          Sorry guys, two or three months is not “several” months and it is not at all unreasonable to ask someone to design and execute (of course with sewing contractors) a make-it-or-break-it collection in an area that is not your established strength.  Even just six pieces.  Just sourcing material could easily take a week.  Designers don’t all just run down to B and J and grab the first bolt of velvet.

          You cannot sew a truly couture wedding dress in two days (I think that was the deadline, maybe it was three) unless you have a team of highly trained people working very long hours.  Google articles on the construction of Kate Middleton’s dress or look at the “Signe Chanel” documentary series, which covers the creation of a real couture collection.  If I’m remembering correctly, Angelo et al. had to brainstorm, sketch, design, buy the fabric (maybe it was already on hand), drape, and sew (or direct the sewing of) that dress in two days.  And it was supposed to be unique and an extension of or departure from what he’d done in the past.  That deadline was not realistic.

          The show is stacking the deck against these people.  It’s Reality TV, so I understand that’s part of the convention.

          • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

            “Sorry guys, two or three months is not “several” months.”

            Oh good lord. Three months is several months.

            We’ve read your many complaints stated many times in this thread and while they’re yours to have and not something to debate about, it strikes us exceedingly odd that you’re main complaint regarding this reality TV show is that it’s a reality TV show. It seems to us it’s not the show for you.

            • Anonymous

              Oh dear.  For me, “several months” is at least five months.  I’ve taken the time to comment because I think my insights are valuable. Perhaps someone involved with the show will take the time to read them.  No, we obviously don’t agree.   

              Odd, a discussion thread in which discussion is criticized.  It’s not like I’ve been hurling invective without explaining my views.

            • http://www.tomandorenzo.com Tom and Lorenzo

              You haven’t been criticized, nor have you been asked to leave. It has, however, been pointed out to you that you’re criticizing a reality TV show for being a reality TV show, something that you don’t seem to deny, which, as we said, strikes us as an odd complaint.

              And “several” comprises the next few numbers after 2.

          • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

            If you want to get technical, Angelo can’t make a “truly couture” dress with a year — he doesn’t have the right to label his work couture.  Couture requires a workshop in Paris, at least 2 Parisian shows a year, a certain amount of handwork per piece, and that each item be made specifically to the customer.  “Couture” as a term is defined by the French government and VERY closely regulated.  There are only a very few select houses in the world (I think it’s 6 or 7) that have the right to refer to their work as couture.

            • Chantelle James

              I thought it was “haute couture” that had to meet all those regulations and that “couture” meant “custom made”.

      • Anonymous

        Charlotte_Lucas, you seem lost in a world of minutia.
        It doesn’t seem like you’ve thought your arguments through. From a suitable timetable. To some kind of egalitarian naming system. It seems like you don’t see the reality of TV constraints, or real world human interaction.
        You
        seem to want the fashion industry to empower women, and humanity. While
        that would be nice why don’t you start with religious institutions and work your way up.
        BTW-while
        you may be right about the Duke of Windsor, it’s funny you didn’t
        mention Coco Channel a woman that used the Nazi’s (as well as slept with
        them) to advance her fashion career, its a little more on topic. 

        • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

          Or HUGO BOSS!  He designed and supplied the Nazi uniforms, for God’s sake!  (And they were very well designed uniforms, to be fair)

          I see no reason to single out the Duke and Duchess of Windsor for the “horrible people, no matter how fashionable” argument.  You could say the same about half of the truly fashionable people in Europe in the 1930′s.  And it really makes no difference — whether Boss or Chanel were Nazis has no bearing on whether or not they were also great designers. 

    • Anonymous

      His request of the chairs was not a problem.  Once it was clear why, it was very effective.  But he shouldn’t have insulted the assistants.

      • http://profiles.google.com/shannonlstewart Shannon Stewart

        He didn’t seem to insult the assistants — he insulted you.  They seemed totally comfortable being called girls. 

    • Stefanos Mantyla

      So there was only one designer on the show so far to ever sell something? Just the team from the first episode? Or did someone else manage it as well?

    • Anonymous

      I think Joe – who I love – really messed up here and picked the wrong boutique for Lambrou.  Even had Lambrou edited the individual pieces, his aesthetic doesn’t seem to fit in at all with the buyers.  I think Scoop or Intermix would’ve been much better for him, and might have picked up a piece or two.

      This episode depressed me – he did try, it just wasn’t good enough, and I think at this stage, had Joe or someone been able to make much more focused comments (about which specific elements didn’t work: to say out loud, the fabric for that last dress is too Etsy; remake it; your jumpsuit pants are too short and the outseam is too tapered – fix both) midway through, it could’ve been different.  I feel sad even thinking about the whole thing.

    • Joseph Lamour

      He should start a hat collection. He scalp was covered the entire episode.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Cleary/1201575213 Patrick Cleary

      I don’t get the channel this show is on, but I buy it on iTunes whenever I see your recaps (knowing the outcome doesn’t bother me, because this show for me is all about the process), so I can’t wait to see this episode and the rest of Season 2.

      I do like that not every story is a success story, but I wonder at Joe Zee’s choices in designers sometimes. I realize that the selection of designers who are looking for help but willing to possibly (let’s face it, probably) not look entirely at their best in front of a larger audience than they probably have had in their careers is probably small, but some of these episodes make me wonder why Joe Zee would put his editorial eye to such scrutiny. Then again, he’s very successful and a few odd choices here and there probably won’t hurt him much.

    • Now I am The Bee

      Sorry I’m late to the party. 
      I think someone, be it Joe Zee or his assistants, should sit Angelo down and tell him that he should stick with bridal and forget RTW.  His collection was awful–the worst over-worked stuff. 
      This episode really frustrated me.  All I got out of it was Joe berating this guy, albiet for very good reasons–two hours late for an appointment to show your line is inexcusable–without getting to the heart of Angelo’s problems.  Some creative, brilliant people just do not have the head for running thier businesses!  Angelo seems to need a lot of time to create, and needs a business manager to run the shop and pay the bills.  Those are skills that Angelo will never learn. 
      I worked for a group of surgeons and they were all the same way.  Brilliant doctors and skilled at surgery, not a one of them could balance his checkbook.  That’s why they had staff to do those things for them–which is what Angelo needs. 
       

    • elvira maricic

      According to the Each label will be put to the challenge when Zee asks the team to design quickly and outside of their comfort zones for one of these celebrities, who may or may not be typical of the label’s core clientele.

    • Anonymous

      I watched this trainwreck on Sunday evening and loathed every minute of it.  Hope the other episodes are much much better.  I thought Joe Zee was really uanppealing this time around and was surprised by how much HE turned me off.  Forget about the clothes.  It’s just not fun or rewarding to watch someone’s heart get broken on TV.

    • Anonymous

      Watching this episode reminded me of the saying that a big part of life – and success – is simply showing up.  To which I will add, on time.  Angelo seemed very sweet and not without talent.  But his vagueness, his tardiness, him not even knowing how much his clothes sold for, made me want to shake him.  There’s being bad at business and then there’s being almost pathologically inept and clueless, as he was.  It made me wonder how he is able to function in life, let alone business. Joe Zee was right to tear him a new one.  Maybe he needed that. That said, I did find Joe a little less appealing this time around. And the show was a bit of a downer. But I do love that they don’t force a happy outcome. I’ll keep watching.

    • Anonymous

      Reading the comments, I get the sense that Angelo’s almost childlike haplessness evoked protective feelings in some viewers, a tendency also noticeable his assistants. Nobody wanted to hurt the sweet guy’s feelings with information that would burst his naive bubble. Joe Zee, however, is evidently immune to waif-appeal, and expected him to be a fairly competent adult, one with a business. Hilarity ensued.

      Well, I found it sort of funny, any road. Angelo also proved immune — to adult supervision, even the cussing, spitting-tacks-with-frustration sort. Yeah, it was also sad. It’s always sad to see someone sabotage themselves without being conscious of doing so. Hopefully Angelo can get his dream of himself as a high end fashion designer better aligned with the reality of himself as a wedding gown designer. He does seem like a genuinely sweet fellow with some talent.

      Joe Zee’s anger and frustration make perfect sense to me. He’s associating his name and his judgment with the people he helps on this show, and if they come up looking like wannabes a la Angelo it’s his rep that’s on the line, particularly to the high end connections he has. In his shoes I’d have felt like smacking that look of innocent surprise off Angelo’s mug.

      • Anonymous

        good analysis all around but fact is some vetting needs to take place … otherwise it’s just another crappy reality show with a pissy beatrice at the helm … still … good diagnosis … i just hated seeing the fellow brought so low and i thought JZ acted like an ass given the situation, the context, and what he must clearly have known was looming disaster — JZ talks about the supposed horror of being so embarassed in face of potential buyers … let him then take control of his show and substitute histrionics for a seat in the producer’s chair  xoxo

    • Anonymous

      Just went to Sundance’s website to watch this episode – looks like next week features Qristyl Frazier from Project Runway. I remember her for the somewhat obnoxious spelling of her name.

    • Anonymous

      I, for one, did not think that Joe Zee was being too harsh with this guy.   Remember, this “sweet” guy WAS NOT PAYING HIS EMPLOYEES!  He was ignoring everyone’s advice (including those poor assistants), insisting that he knew what he was doing (despite his complete lack of success in RTW) and risking the sale  by being late to the showing!  It looked to me like JZ was the first person in a long time not to fall for his charm and tell him how it is. 

      As to calling the assistants “girls”, my impression was that he was trying to emphasize that the designer was the one in charge.  JZ’s treatment of the assistants was respectful on every other level.  He asked their opinion about the source of the troubles.  And I find it very telling that when he learned that the missing assistant was at an interview, he was not at all critical of her, but of the boss creating the situation.

      Yeah, grown women probably shouldn’t be called “girls”.  But it’s much less respectful to take advantage of other people and expect them to WORK WITHOUT PAY while you pursue your “dream”….

    • Anonymous

      The women from edit were dressed terribly. Their clothes looked cheap, especially the woman in the dress.

      Sad episode. Nothing really worked yet he clearly has immense talent.